cracked frame
jmar595
below freezing, I only had water in the radiator. I checked the fluid and
I have oil in the radiator. I do not have oil in the crankcase. I am
hoping it is a head gasket or something, because I have drained it a few
times now and it is clearing out. Would the heater affect this, maybe it
runs through a different gallery or something, because I stopped using the
heater and it seems to have gone away. How can I check to see if I may have
cracked the block or heads cheaply? Also, when I found out this, about the
oil in the water, I also found out that my frame rail is cracked
completely in two just aft of the passenger side motor mount. Is there a
cheap repair for this? Do I need to weld the seam and then put braces on
both sides?
ajeep...@comcast.net
they are just oblong plates with a triangle shaped cut on each end.
This will prevet a new crack.
old john
"jmar595" <jma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:baed0aed6d410d29...@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
no one
jmar595 wrote:
> I have an '86 Chevy pickup. I live in north Texas and the last 2 days went
> below freezing, I only had water in the radiator. I checked the fluid and
> I have oil in the radiator.
I do not have oil in the crankcase.
WHY ?
02B12S
this is the case, I would suspect a leaking transmission oil cooler in the
radiator, not a engine oil leak. Engine oil in Radiator will always result
in antifreeze in the crankcase..
JJ
"no one" <no...@noon.us> wrote in message
news:cu7nf.30621$7h7....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
no one
02B12S wrote:
> I think he meant no water in the crankcase :^), but oil in radiator, If
> this is the case, I would suspect a leaking transmission oil cooler in the
> radiator, not a engine oil leak. Engine oil in Radiator will always result
> in antifreeze in the crankcase..
Then he should have antifreeze in the Tranny fluid also
Chevrolet
Warren Post
> if you weld it, you MUST use fish shaped plates over the crack . they are
> just oblong plates with a triangle shaped cut on each end. This will
> prevet a new crack.
John, to clarify, do you mean plates shaped like this?
________________________
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--
Warren Post
Santa Rosa de Copán, Honduras
http://srcopan.vze.com/
Steve Mackie
> they are just oblong plates with a triangle shaped cut on each end.
> This will prevet a new crack.
Having a mechanical engineering tech background, you are going to have to
explain that one.
Steve
jmar595
think it is the oil cooler, don't think there is one. I did a compression
test last night and it went like this... #1- 150 psi, norm plug, #3- 135
psi; norm. plug; #5- 135 psi, norm. plug;#7- 135 psi, norm. plug;#2 145
psi, norm. plug; #4- 135 psi, noprm. plug; #6- 85 psi, norm. plug;#8-120
psi, oily fouled plug. With this do you think it is possible I have a
blown head gasket between 6 and 8?
Dennis Mayer
It's called a double 'fish mouth' shape and it prevents a major
discontinuity
in structural stiffness.. The fish mouth shown/could have a deeper
triangular trim.... and pulled back from trim corner weld ends
may help too..
A discontinuity in stiffness may cause a Stress concentration.....
And major stress concentration can cause a metal fatigue crack...
Retired, ME
no one
With Both Valves closed .. Piston on the Down stroke. Remove the
Radiator Cap, Pump Compressed air into that Cyclinder Via the spark
plug Hole. If the Head gasket is leaking u will Get Bubbles showing
up at the RADIATOR cap HOLE in the radiator .
>
Steve Mackie
> discontinuity
>
> in structural stiffness.. The fish mouth shown/could have a deeper
>
> triangular trim.... and pulled back from trim corner weld ends
> may help too..
>
> A discontinuity in stiffness may cause a Stress concentration.....
>
> And major stress concentration can cause a metal fatigue crack...
Did I mention I graduated first in my class, with honours. You didn't need
to explain what a stress concentration can do.
Do you know of any reference texts on this "double fish mouth." I don't see
it in any of my texts and I'm interested in it. I've joined a many of
tubes/channels/etc. on paper and have only used flat plate. I just want to
read up on the application theory.
Steve
Dennis Mayer
Fishmouths & shear ties are a way to blend stiffness between a box
section
and a channel... which minimizes stress concentrations... Metal
shape
as well as weld & weld ending details become equally important.
I've done this work in my younger Engr days via MTS test equipment,
finite
element modeling, and PVC scale plastic modeling using Stresscoat
paints.
It is a self acquired design/Engr skill that is used to solve
structural Problems.
Steve Mackie
> section
>
> and a channel... which minimizes stress concentrations... Metal
You just seem to be stating the same thing over and over. I have never used
anything but plain rectangular plates and they have always met stress
requirements. I want to read into the theory to see if changing the way I do
it is worth it.
Steve
Dennis Mayer
I know of no particular papers nor books on the subject, but
Technical Topics that may cover the general issue are:
Theory of Reinforcements...... or
Designing for Fatigue..... or
Lightweight Structure Design......... Amen
The Nolalu Barn Owl
I have looked and looked for information on the NET about fish mouthed
re-inforcing plates and there isn't much to be had.
Basically you can use a plate cut to form what looks like an open fish
mouth on each end.
------
> <
------
You can also use a diamond shaped plate to give the same effect.
To weld the frame directly from the top to the bottom makes it likely
to crack again for reasons which I am not qualified to try and
explain. After over 30 years of working as a Millwright, I can say
that once a crack has been welded it quite often cracks there again so
a plate is used to bridge the repaired area and this plate is welded
with stitch-welding so as not to make a continuous weld. This way, if
one stitch was to crack it won't carry over to the next weld. The
fish mouth (or diamond) allows you to place welds that are not in a
direct line from top to bottom.
Since my explanation is wanting, and I am just a DIY repairman, I have
cross posted this message to a welding NG to draw in some expert
opinions for you - and for me :)
--
Gordie
There are tongues speakers who speak in an unknown language that actually
exists among the peoples of the earth. I recall one such incident in which a
tongues speaker got up and spoken in some unknown language. As it
happened, there was a priest in the audience who just happened to speak the
language this women was speaking as an unknown tongue. The priest asked
her if she knew what she was saying. The women had no idea so the priest
told her: "You were speaking my native language and what you were saying
was cursing God."
http://www.saint-mike.org/Apologetics/QA/Answers/Faith_Spirituality/f0404120221.html
klutz
Is the truck in fantastic shape, other than the issues you've mentioned? If
not, it may not be cost effective to invest a lot of time and money to
repair a cracked frame and engine in a truck that's 20 years old. Take a
few minutes to do the math before you start throwing your hard earned bucks
into a money pit.
Charles Bendig
> I think he meant no water in the crankcase :^), but oil in radiator, If
> this is the case, I would suspect a leaking transmission oil cooler in the
> radiator, not a engine oil leak. Engine oil in Radiator will always result
> in antifreeze in the crankcase..
>
> JJ
>
Not always so. If you have a radiator with a engine oil cooler in the
side tank. The oil cooler can leak/seep oil in to the cooliant, and not
suck cooliant back in to the oil cooler.
Had this happen on a 1993 Buick Regal with a 3.8 V6.
Charles
Richard Smith
Geordie seems to know from practical experience what does and doesn't
work to avoid fatigue cracks or how to repair them when it happens.
Steve - you've read and all seems fine and from that basis you
disbelieve and experienced practitioner.
Steve - you could do Finite Element Analysis modelling to see the
stress concentrations. FEA for the general region of the structure.
Here's a somewhat comparable example of me probing a feature I met
while actually out there as a welder
http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/finiteelement/1609_beam_tjn_sim/160927_beam_w_column_w-wo_stiffplts.html
What I would bet is that you will see theory concurring with what
Geordie is telling you already. Steve - you'd benefit from "treading
the path" and seeing how where you come from can plug you into the
deep knowledge out there.
I take it you are proposing some feature with an abrupt "right-angled
in every way" change in thickness and possibly direction.
That will be highly fatigue-prone.
Steve I think you are being given a chance to learn and you are not
seeing it.
As best I can tell from message trail so far...
Jim Wilkins
I take it you are proposing some feature with an abrupt "right-angled
in every way" change in thickness and possibly direction.
That will be highly fatigue-prone.
Steve I think you are being given a chance to learn and you are not
seeing it.
As best I can tell from message trail so far...
I vaguely remember learning in Strength of Materials class that the diagonal
weld across the beam web reduced stress concentration. Maybe the reason for
both diamond and fish-mouth plates is that one is scrap from cutting the
other.