Help with singing live w/mic
PuNiSheR
"DejaVU" <nosp...@iwr.ru.ac.za> wrote in message
news:90669AC27...@news.ru.ac.za...
> PuNiSheR <teamc...@aol.comSPAMJUNK> wrote in
> <fhms6.3$f84...@eagle.america.net>:
>
>
> one absolutely critical thing to do is for each band member to stop
> playing for a bit and go stand out front to hear what it sounds
> like to the potential listeners. when the drummer is out one of
> the others can bash em about in his place, just needs to be the
> same volume really.... (-: by doing this you will realize the need
> for balance in the volumes, for positioning the instrument amps
> correctly, and a variety of other things. you may also come to
> realize that the room affects all of it, and practising in a 'bare'
> room is a lot different to playing in a BIG space with varying
> numbers of people in it. (people absorb sound, esp high end, but
> don't make your sound too sharp, it hurts ears)
>
> if you've got a (at least) partially musical girlfriend/
> boyfriend/sister/ brother etc that you can rope in to be the
> official listener. this person can provide useful critique on the
> overall sound, and also on the effectiveness of the startings and
> endings of your songs. a good start can make a song. remember
> your patrons will be comparing your sound to the latest Cd's in the
> genre, and they expect the same sort of things.
>
> now for the weird bit. go to your local public library (and any tech
> colledge if there is one) and read every book they have on audio
> systems, recording, PA systems, how the Beatles recorded, etc etc
> etc. I found this to be invaluable.
>
> there are no hard and fast rules in audio, except this:
> 'it must sound good!'
>
> a possible corollary is:
> 'more gear is not the same as sounding good'
>
> as to your original question, the singer will need about the same
> wattage as your guitar/bass amps (100 to 150 watts? needs
> headroom to handle the transients), and a decent mike like a Shure
> SM58 (though you can probably live with a BG3 or the ilk).
>
> many companies make suitable PA amp/speaker combinations tha thave
> the right input for the mike, and plenty power. Fender does a nice
> one. but as others have said, hire/borrow and experiment before
> spending big bucks - that way you get the right stuff first time out.
>
> if you play a venue with it's own PA where your onstage stuff will
> not be loud enough and needs reinforcing, hire an engineer
>
Kees Jan Koster
> if you've got a (at least) partially musical girlfriend/
> boyfriend/sister/ brother etc that you can rope in to be the
> official listener.
>
Yours,
Kees Jan
----------------------------------------------------------
Kees Jan Koster e-mail: kjkoster "at" kjkoster.org
www: http://www.kjkoster.org/
----------------------------------------------------------
Piglet: You're invited too!
Eeyore: Hmpf, that must be a mistake. I'll go, but don't
blame me if it rains.
PuNiSheR
Let's say we were to play a bar with no PA system, just our amps cranked to
match the drummer's level of sound. What kind of equipment should we get for
the singer? What do you guys use?
1. Mic
2. Stand
3. What kind of speakers do you guys use? Do you need more than one? What
size
woofer(s)? Does it need a tweeter? What's good wattage?
4. I guess an amp to power the speaker or speakers????
5. What about effects for the voice? Reverb I guess. What else?
6. And anything else you can think of.
Now, if we were playing a place with a PA system, what would we have to
bring
for our singer? Do they provide voice effects when they mix the singer in or
would we need to bring any effect gizmos we have with us?
If you have the time, please be specific on brands you use when making
suggestions.
Thanks, we can't wait to play!!!!!!!!!!
Reese Thomas
>I'm in a new rock band and we are about to take on a singer.
>Let's say we were to play a bar with no PA system, just our amps cranked to
>match the drummer's level of sound. What kind of equipment should we get for
>the singer? What do you guys use?
>
>1. Mic
>2. Stand
Yes
>3. What kind of speakers do you guys use? Do you need more than one? What
>size
>woofer(s)? Does it need a tweeter? What's good wattage?
in your area that will be interested in doing your gigs. Work with them, pay
them (sometimes they will make more that the band, but with your evident
level of knowlege (no offence meant, we all have to start somewhere, ) you'll
be MUCH better off (to say nothing about outlay for equipment). After a while
you'll be in much better position to evaluate your needs. It's a lot more
than just buying equipment. You spent time learning to play, live sound takes
a certain skill level as well. Good luck
Kees Jan Koster
> 1. Mic
>
Take some time to find a microphone that works well for the
singer. Rent good mics for a gig and compare some of them. A
singer's mic is an extension of his vocal cords and some mics
will work better for one person than for another.
>
> 2. Stand
>
And a high-quality, well-maintained, pampered and loved mic wire.
Follow Reese Thomas' advice and rent before you buy. The
pricepoint of good gear is such that a mistake is really
expensive. The glitter and shine of the brand-new goodies in the
stores tends to fog the mind and you may well find yourself
on-stage, wondering why you ever paid to get the crap you got.
Also, do a www.Deja.com search for older threads on how to reduce
on-stage feedback (and volume). There is really a lot you can do,
just with guitar amp placement and location on stage. If you're
just starting out there may be some useful tips for you in there.
:)
PuNiSheR
singer when the time comes for a live gig with or without a PA. We still
need something for him to use while in our practice space. Equipment that we
could also use live since it would be purchased new. We are newbies and are
oblivious to what's exactly needed but we have to start someplace. Just
thought I could get a bit of info. Sorry to waste your time. I have some
idea upon visiting Carvin, Peavey and Yamaha's sites but there is so much to
choose from I don't know what's good for our situation. I don't want them to
sell us the Brooklyn bridge when we don't need it.
"Reese Thomas" <tho...@strato.net> wrote in message
news:UK5s6.7890$PH.6...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
George Gleason
PuNiSheR <teamc...@aol.comSPAMJUNK> wrote in message
news:rp8s6.67$tI3....@eagle.america.net...
> Although we would probably deal with a sound company to accommodate the
> singer when the time comes for a live gig with or without a PA
Mr. Punisher please buy a Mackie 450 a Sm58 and a xlr cable you will have
everything you need to practice and it can double as his monitor when you
hire pa
George Gleason
Big Dave
> I'm in a new rock band and we are about to take on a singer.
> Let's say we were to play a bar with no PA system, just our amps cranked
to
> match the drummer's level of sound. What kind of equipment should we get
for
> the singer? What do you guys use?
This has got to be a put on right???
Big Dave
It was worth a chuckle i think!
PuNiSheR
reply I guess. I guess you were born a genius. They must have misplaced my
book of life when I was born. Dam-it, I always get the short end of the
stick.
PuNiSheR
"Big Dave" <dayvid(dot)1(at)email(dot)com> wrote in message
news:98r4m...@enews1.newsguy.com...
George Gleason
Kees Jan Koster <kjko...@kjkoster.org> wrote in message
news:3AB1257B...@kjkoster.org...
> >
> > > Although we would probably deal with a sound company to accommodate
the
> > > singer when the time comes for a live gig with or without a PA
> >
> > Mr. Punisher please buy a Mackie 450 a Sm58 and a xlr cable you will
have
> > everything you need to practice and it can double as his monitor when
you
> > hire pa
> >
> *rubs eyes*
>
> Umm. George? You mistyped that "Mackie" word, right?
No the 450 (a copy of the RCF art 300a) Is the right box for this
application
The 450 is a nice powered speaker that gets loud ,sounds good and the only
part that is Mackie is the logo, the rest is rcf
George.
Kees Jan Koster
> > Although we would probably deal with a sound company to accommodate the
> > singer when the time comes for a live gig with or without a PA
>
> Mr. Punisher please buy a Mackie 450 a Sm58 and a xlr cable you will have
> everything you need to practice and it can double as his monitor when you
> hire pa
>
Umm. George? You mistyped that "Mackie" word, right?
Yours,
PuNiSheR
play a bar with no PA system." Doh! What I should have said is; If we were
to play a bar or in our rehearsal space for that matter, with the volume for
all instruments set as not to drown the drummer, who would not be mic-ed to
a PA. What would be a good watt speaker to use JUST for the singer? Should
we have 2 on each side or could you get away with one is money is tight?
Would those speakers be the one that Carvin, Peavey and Yamaha are calling
loudspeakers? They seem to have 1 woofer and a horn. Are these the correct
speakers to use? What's a good size woofer for vocals? I'm sorry for posting
trollish. ( :
Wes Selwood
George Gleason wrote:
>
> Sorry I bothered to answer your question in a polite concise way
> you were given makers and model numbers of the gear to buy, but you are too
> busy slamming to notice I guess.
> George Gleason
George when will you ever learn - we like you just the way the way you are...
FG Wes,
George Gleason
Kees Jan Koster <kjko...@kjkoster.org> wrote in message
news:3AB14A95...@kjkoster.org...
> >
> > > > > Although we would probably deal with a sound company to
accommodate
> > the
> > > > > singer when the time comes for a live gig with or without a PA
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Punisher please buy a Mackie 450 a Sm58 and a xlr cable you will
> > have
> > > > everything you need to practice and it can double as his monitor
when
> > you
> > > > hire pa
> > > >
> > > *rubs eyes*
> > >
> > > Umm. George? You mistyped that "Mackie" word, right?
> > No the 450 (a copy of the RCF art 300a) Is the right box for this
> > application
> > The 450 is a nice powered speaker that gets loud ,sounds good and the
only
> > part that is Mackie is the logo, the rest is rcf
> >
> Ah, ok. It's just that more than half the messages in the past
> week have been "screw Mackie", so you took me off-guard. I
> seriously hope that we can get back to discussing sound rather
> than wade through flames
.
That would be Screw Mackie desks, I know nothing about their recording gear
so I am unqualified to comment but the 450 speaker excels at its intended
market
George
Kees Jan Koster
> > > > Although we would probably deal with a sound company to accommodate
> the
> > > > singer when the time comes for a live gig with or without a PA
> > >
> > > Mr. Punisher please buy a Mackie 450 a Sm58 and a xlr cable you will
> have
> > > everything you need to practice and it can double as his monitor when
> you
> > > hire pa
> > >
> > *rubs eyes*
> >
> > Umm. George? You mistyped that "Mackie" word, right?
> No the 450 (a copy of the RCF art 300a) Is the right box for this
> application
> The 450 is a nice powered speaker that gets loud ,sounds good and the only
> part that is Mackie is the logo, the rest is rcf
>
week have been "screw Mackie", so you took me off-guard. I
seriously hope that we can get back to discussing sound rather
than wade through flames.
Yours,
George Gleason
PuNiSheR <teamc...@aol.comSPAMJUNK> wrote in message
news:bqbs6.112$tI3....@eagle.america.net...
Reese Thomas
condecending. It would be very hard with nobody in the group at all familiar
with the basics of sound to get a product that club patrons will listen to.
I was not born knowing sound. I first learned the basics playing in bands
with others more experienced .
If you are determined to buy your own equipment, give us a lot more
info. How many pieces, how many vocals, what instrumentation, how big of
places do you think you'll be playing, and above all, how much can you
spend.
Unfortunately, many of us on this group will not be much help on the
level of equipment you'll probably be looking at .Pro sound equipment tends to
be very expensive. You will probably be looking at MI equipment (your
Peaveys, Mackie, Carvin{uuurrrp} Crate {gulp} etc. which many in this group
no longer deal with. But get us the info, I'll try to help.
BTW, some sound companys will do practices at greatly reduced or free ifjobs
are forthcoming. If not to start by buyinga small junker PA and set the mains
up in front of you, facing you.
The Yamaha book will probably give you an overview. (someone else may
know of a 'primer' even more elementary)
Hey, you don't have the short end of the stick, you've got a bunch of
learning and good times to look forward to. Good Luck
DejaVU
<fhms6.3$f84...@eagle.america.net>:
>No way, I didn't slam and I read what you posted. Thanks. I also
>thanked you and the group. I was just breaking Big Dave's balls. I
>realized how silly my original post sounded and needed to rewrite
>it. I guess to some what redeem myself. I smoked a little too much
>DUST back in the days. Sometimes makes me post before thinking.
>Later and thanks again..........
one absolutely critical thing to do is for each band member to stop
playing for a bit and go stand out front to hear what it sounds
like to the potential listeners. when the drummer is out one of
the others can bash em about in his place, just needs to be the
same volume really.... (-: by doing this you will realize the need
for balance in the volumes, for positioning the instrument amps
correctly, and a variety of other things. you may also come to
realize that the room affects all of it, and practising in a 'bare'
room is a lot different to playing in a BIG space with varying
numbers of people in it. (people absorb sound, esp high end, but
don't make your sound too sharp, it hurts ears)
if you've got a (at least) partially musical girlfriend/
boyfriend/sister/ brother etc that you can rope in to be the
official listener. this person can provide useful critique on the
overall sound, and also on the effectiveness of the startings and
endings of your songs. a good start can make a song. remember
your patrons will be comparing your sound to the latest Cd's in the
genre, and they expect the same sort of things.
now for the weird bit. go to your local public library (and any tech
colledge if there is one) and read every book they have on audio
systems, recording, PA systems, how the Beatles recorded, etc etc
etc. I found this to be invaluable.
there are no hard and fast rules in audio, except this:
'it must sound good!'
a possible corollary is:
'more gear is not the same as sounding good'
as to your original question, the singer will need about the same
wattage as your guitar/bass amps (100 to 150 watts? needs
headroom to handle the transients), and a decent mike like a Shure
SM58 (though you can probably live with a BG3 or the ilk).
many companies make suitable PA amp/speaker combinations tha thave
the right input for the mike, and plenty power. Fender does a nice
one. but as others have said, hire/borrow and experiment before
spending big bucks - that way you get the right stuff first time out.
if you play a venue with it's own PA where your onstage stuff will
not be loud enough and needs reinforcing, hire an engineer
steam and wind
--
David Forsyth -:- the email address is real, but cunning!
Keeper of the listserver for South African Railways fans _|_ His
Part time gricer, kiter, photographer, father etc etc | Way
http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/satrain/ | Up
Don't make it accurate, make it adjustable
Hubert Barth
>> Umm. George? You mistyped that "Mackie" word, right?
>No the 450 (a copy of the RCF art 300a) Is the right box for this
>application
>The 450 is a nice powered speaker that gets loud ,sounds good and the only
>part that is Mackie is the logo, the rest is rcf
I wonder whether they will start to put "Mackie" on EAW products now
they have bought them out.
--
Hubert Barth
Cologne/Germany
http://www.bigbands.de
PuNiSheR
and the group. I was just breaking Big Dave's balls. I realized how silly my
original post sounded and needed to rewrite it. I guess to some what redeem
myself. I smoked a little too much DUST back in the days. Sometimes makes me
post before thinking.
Later and thanks again..........
"George Gleason" <g.p.g...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4vcs6.609$wQ3....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
dejaVU
<kjko...@kjkoster.org> scribbled furtively:
} >
} > if you've got a (at least) partially musical girlfriend/
} > boyfriend/sister/ brother etc that you can rope in to be the
} > official listener.
} >
} Commonly referred to as "sound engineer".
roflmao
quiet so Kees, but I sort of wanted them to ease into it and basically
hoodwink someone into the position over time (-:
} Yours,
} Kees Jan
David Forsyth
http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/satrain/
http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/satrain/lathe/
Living in South Africa
Kees Jan Koster
> } >
> } > if you've got a (at least) partially musical girlfriend/
> } > boyfriend/sister/ brother etc that you can rope in to be the
> } > official listener.
> } >
> } Commonly referred to as "sound engineer".
>
> roflmao
>
> quiet so Kees, but I sort of wanted them to ease into it and basically
> hoodwink someone into the position over time (-:
>
business in the first place? They told me I'd be the band's
driver, and then they said: "while you're here, can you close the
faders on the unused mics to reduce feedback?". And after a while
they started referring to me as their "engineer", instead of
their "driver".
I never saw it coming.
DejaVU
[]
>> quiet so Kees, but I sort of wanted them to ease into it and
>> basically hoodwink someone into the position over time (-:
>>
>HOW DO YOU THINK I GOT INTO (whoops, capslock was stuck) this
>business in the first place? They told me I'd be the band's
>driver, and then they said: "while you're here, can you close the
>faders on the unused mics to reduce feedback?". And after a while
>they started referring to me as their "engineer", instead of
>their "driver".
did they at least pay you? (-:
>I never saw it coming.
never mind, makes you a better engineer in the end