Wireless mic range?
Dave O'Heare
including Ceilidh-style teach-the-audience-while-the-band-plays goings-on.
I want to have a wireless headset for the dance leader, but I need something
with a fairly large range, 200-300 feet.
The logistics of the show involve a bandshell that's surrounded by water,
with a small footbridge that comes out the back and sort of meanders around
to the front. There is something like 60 feet of water between the
bandshell and the grass where the dancers will be. There's no power or
wiring of any sort except right at the bandshell.
Last year the leader brought his own wireless setup that he'd bought the day
before, having carefully removed all the instructions and left them at home.
I *think* it was an Audio-Technica setup, but I'm not sure; it gave me the
impression of being one of their low-end models. We hooked it up and tried
it, and it was okay for 50-60 feet, but dropped out badly beyond that. He
ended up leading the dancers with a bullhorn, which was deemed less than
completely satisfactory.
Is there a wireless setup that will work reliably over a couple of hundred
foot distance? Headworn preferred, range more important than audio
quality...
Thanks.
Dave O'H
oheareATmagmaDOTca
Kurt Albershardt
>
> Is there a wireless setup that will work reliably over a couple of hundred
> foot distance? Headworn preferred, range more important than audio
> quality...
Zaxcom or Lectrosonics with a yagi antenna on the RX.
Hubert Barth
>Is there a wireless setup that will work reliably over a couple of hundred
>foot distance? Headworn preferred, range more important than audio
>quality...
In your application I would prefer a handheld mic over a headset.
Because the antenna on the body pack is usually situated close to the
body, RF output will be noticeably attenuated compared to a handheld
transmitter.
just my 2 cents
--
Hubert Barth
Cologne/Germany
http://www.bigbands.de
shannon
Its all down to the antenna system
We use Shure UA and UC series and Shure PSM, and Lectrosonic in ears for
sports match comms and on field entertainment over long distances. The key
is using active antennae like the Shure paddles or 1/2 wave whips with
headamps. We also use an excellent circular polarized antenna system sold
by Masque Sound that they use at the Superbowl. Rat Sound also sell them.
I'm going to buy their antenna distro system next chance I get
Bob Urz
shannon wrote:
Agreed, the Shures with the antenna manifolds and directional antennas
are a good choice. Or if you got the bucks, the top line Seinheisers
are what i normally see in the broadway shows.
If your looking for a Shure antenna distro, drop me a line.....
I need to move some more Shure in the next couple of months.
Bob
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Arny Krueger
> I've got a one-day festival coming up that involves music and
dancing,
> including Ceilidh-style teach-the-audience-while-the-band-plays
> goings-on. I want to have a wireless headset for the dance leader,
> but I need something with a fairly large range, 200-300 feet.
>
> The logistics of the show involve a bandshell that's surrounded by
> water, with a small footbridge that comes out the back and sort of
> meanders around to the front. There is something like 60 feet of
> water between the bandshell and the grass where the dancers will be.
> There's no power or wiring of any sort except right at the
bandshell.
When faced with similar issues, we just relocated the receivers to the
area where the performers were.
Dave O'Heare
"Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:q8ydnfX_Ztu...@comcast.com...
> Dave O'Heare wrote:
> When faced with similar issues, we just relocated the receivers to the
> area where the performers were.
Yes, I'd prefer to do that, but it means running both power and audio
about 300'. And I haven't figured out how to do that 1) above
ground, 2) unprotected, and C) without running the audio and
power wiring together. The only power available for a quarter-mile
or so is at the dang bandshell, which is accessible by footbridge and is
otherwise surrounded by water.
What is it with these people, wanting to be heard..... grumble
Dave O'Heare
oheareATmagmaDOTca
Dave O'Heare
"Kurt Albershardt" <ku...@nv.net> wrote in message
news:3blfa6F...@individual.net...
> Zaxcom or Lectrosonics with a yagi antenna on the RX.
Thanks, I'll look for a local source.
Dave O'Heare
oheareATmagmaDOTca
Dave O'Heare
"shannon" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.04.07....@privacy.net...
> Its all down to the antenna system
Thanks for the detailed reply, shannon. I'm going to try for a local rental
source; there's precious little budget for this and if it'll only get used
once a year, precious little point to buying it.
Dave O'Heare
oheareATmagmaDOTca
Kurt Albershardt
> "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:q8ydnfX_Ztu...@comcast.com...
>
>> area where the performers were.
>
>
> Yes, I'd prefer to do that, but it means running both power and audio
> about 300'. And I haven't figured out how to do that 1) above
> ground, 2) unprotected, and C) without running the audio and
> power wiring together. The only power available for a quarter-mile
> or so is at the dang bandshell, which is accessible by footbridge and is
> otherwise surrounded by water.
How about putting the receivers just on the other side of the water--or
is that where FOH is already? You can run several wireless receivers
off a 12V SLA battery for the whole day.
Mike
>> to the area where the performers were.
>
> Yes, I'd prefer to do that, but it means running both power and
> audio about 300'.
What about using remotely mounted antenas?? Possibly with some sort of
signal booster.... Perhaps the good people at Shure might have some
suggestions. =)
Mike Borkhuis
shannon
Shure have an application note on their site about how to make a power
adapter to remote power their antenna head amps for use with UC series
You need to consider the coax you are running though.
Low loss 50 ohm antenna coax is expensive and coils like bamboo :-)
Phildo
"Dave O'Heare" <oheareATmagmaDOTca> wrote in message
news:7fKdneHJhZ9...@magma.ca...
> Is there a wireless setup that will work reliably over a couple of hundred
> foot distance? Headworn preferred, range more important than audio
> quality...
>
Phildo
Karl Winkler
shannon wrote:
>
> Its all down to the antenna system
Transmitter power has a lot to do with it as well. There are units with
10, 20, 30, 50, 100 and 250 mW of RF power... that's a HUGE difference
in ability to be picked up reliably over distance. With FM systems (as
all VHF and UHF systems are) the capture effect works when your
intended signal is at least 3dB over the background RF noise on that
channel. There is a 10dB difference between 10mW and 100mW... and a 3dB
difference between 50mW and 100mW... think about it.
Some transmitters have a "power saver" switch on them that changes the
output from 30mW down to 10mW...
No argument that antennas help - almost as much as power (transmitter)
and proximity (antenna and receiver placement). Similarly with
directional microphones... the laws of physics apply.
Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com
shannon
I don't need to think about it, its patronisingly obvious that more
powerful systems produce higher ERP
Radio mics used by sound companies are designed for stage use. They are
usually limited in power by a class licence, so usually the only
option to increase ERP for large events is antenna gain.
Karl Winkler
For VHF, the limit under the FCC licensing rules for this type of
application is 50mW. For UHF it is 250mW. I.e. the same rules apply for
transmitters in the UHF band whether they are 10mW or 100mW.
Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com
Dave O'Heare
"Karl Winkler" <karlwi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1113357706.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> For VHF, the limit under the FCC licensing rules for this type of
> application is 50mW. For UHF it is 250mW. I.e. the same rules apply for
> transmitters in the UHF band whether they are 10mW or 100mW.
Thanks for the reminder, Karl. I'm in Canada, and the laws *might* be
different, but I'll make sure that I'm within legal limits.
As well, the nearest neighbour to the bandshell is a sailing club. I'm on
pretty good terms with the techies there, perhaps I'll check out their radio
stuff to make sure I don't run into problems with them coming through the PA
too.
Maybe I'll just issue megaphones to all the performers and be done with
it....
Dave O'Heare
oheareATmagmaDOTca
Karl Winkler
you know what's active in the area.
jakdedert
> Great idea - they even might be able to do an RF spectrum scan and let
> you know what's active in the area.
>
untoward turned up for days, then suddenly.....
jak
Dave O'Heare
And it occurred to me that if the caller is out with the dancers, and using
a wireless mic running through the mains, there will be around a 1/4 second
delay from the time they speak to the time it's heard by the dancers. At
120BPM, that's an eighth note. I'm fairly sure that the caller(s) won't be
able to consistently stay a half a beat ahead of the music.
So, after all that wrangling and information about antenna arrays and stuff,
I think I'm going to hand the caller a megaphone and wish them luck.
<smacks forehead in frustration>
Dave O'Heare
oheareATmagmaDOTca
Joe Kesselman
> I'm fairly sure that the caller(s) won't be
> able to consistently stay a half a beat ahead of the music.
Depends on the kind of calling, depends on speaker placement. We've done
this at NEFFA's dance-teaching sessions, but that's with a speaker at
each corner of the floor so part of the lag is avoided, and it's
generally not the sort of thing where the caller's goal is to surprise
the dancers, just to remind them of where they are in the pattern.
Beware of letting theory get in the way of a practical application...
Phildo
> Great idea - they even might be able to do an RF spectrum scan and let
> you know what's active in the area.
>
talking about.
Phildo
TOS
of the MMD935 capsules on the SKM500 transmitter stick. Now that's
serious.
"Phildo" <Ph...@phildo.net> wrote in message
news:3cb3tjF...@individual.net...