Direct boxes and levels
Nat
have had a chance to experiment and understand much more but still
don't feel I have the essence of the situation. This question is
longer than I should submit, I know, and I thank you in advance for
suffering my request. My basic question is whether there is any
problem with using DI's and instruments with my mixer in the following
manner:
My Mackie Onyx 1620 has 16 channels. Eight have pre-amps, eight
don't. Despite my lack of experience in live sound, I am being asked
to run my third coffehouse, and I need to use five mics for vocals and
three DI's for acoustic guitars. So far everything is cool. But this
uses up all my pre-amps. Where I have trouble is that I also want to
connect a Roland VDrums TD-6 and a Yamaha YPG-625 to the board via the
snake. The distance to the board is 60-90 feet, so I believe I ought
to balance the instruments' signals with DIs. At present, I am
experimenting with two active DIs (Samson S-Directs) on the drums and
two passive DIs on the keyboard (ART Zdirects). I have a couple extra
preamps (a Mackie Satellite provides them) near the board that I am
using with the keyboard (and then running the Satellite's inserts to
the 1620's line-ins), since I wasn't getting a loud enough signal from
them just running directly into the 1620's line-ins. The drums seem
to be okay running directly into the line-ins. Just so you know, the
1620's line-ins provide 20 dB of boost.
What confuses me is that I read almost everywhere I look on the
internet that DI's, passive or active, do three things: (1) balance
unbalanced signals, (2) change high impedance signals to low impedance
signals (or let low impedance signals stay low impedance), and (3)
change line-level signals to mic-level.
In my situation, I don't like (3). I don't want the signals to become
mic-level, because I'm out of pre-amps. But is (3) true? If (3) is
true, how is it working for me to run the drums into the active di's
and into channels that do not have pre-amps?
My hunch is that a variety of levels are traveling up the snake at any
given point in time... some from actual microphones and vocalists are
very low whereas some from keyboards and drums can be higher,
depending on the instruments' nuances, the nature of the DI that gets
the instrument signals to the snake, and where you have their volume
knobs set. Is this right? If so, is there anything wrong with
cranking the volume on the drums and keyboard all the way up so that I
get the loudest signal I have to the board?
In my situation, would you do something different (like buy a cheap
supplemental mixer with some more pre-amps) or not? Lots of cash has
been spent lately and it would be nice not to spend more, but I will
do what has to be done.
Nat
Tim Perry
"Nat" <natj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cc5c9bb1-084e-4141...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Years ago power amps mostly only had 1/4" goesintas. For situation where
ground loop problem were encountered I built a sheilded box with 4
transformers inside. Each has a 1:1 turns ratio.
Examples can be seen here http://www.rapco.com/catalog/techinfo1.htm
I seldom use this anymore but it's in the road kit if i need it.
Last week I needed 17 channels from stage yet the bands mixer only had 16
pre's (and 4 mono/stereo lines)
I used a mic pre on stage into a spare 1/4" return which fed line level back
to the mixer.
Nat
wrote:
> Last week I needed 17 channels from stage yet the bands mixer only had 16
> pre's (and 4 mono/stereo lines)
> I used a mic pre on stage into a spare 1/4" return which fed line level back
> to the mixer.
I would do that but for lack of an additional set of mic pres to use
on stage.
Nat
questions is this: If DI boxes change electronic drum or other
instrument output signals from line level to mic level (as I
understand that they do), how is it I don't need a mic-pre at the
board to run the DI-boxed electronic drums? With the drums on stage,
I seem to be successful plugging them into an active Samson S-direct
DI pair and running up the snake to line-level inputs. With little to
no additional gain from the board, I seem to be getting the signal I
need. It doesn't make sense to me.
Mike Dobony
I wished (3) was true, but still had to use the full cut from my DI box to
have any gain to play with on the drum machine. I was using the additional
20db cut and it was still too much signal. Without any cut there was no
significant cut in the signal level.
>
> My hunch is that a variety of levels are traveling up the snake at any
> given point in time... some from actual microphones and vocalists are
> very low whereas some from keyboards and drums can be higher,
> depending on the instruments' nuances, the nature of the DI that gets
> the instrument signals to the snake, and where you have their volume
> knobs set. Is this right? If so, is there anything wrong with
> cranking the volume on the drums and keyboard all the way up so that I
> get the loudest signal I have to the board?
Increased distortion?
>
> In my situation, would you do something different (like buy a cheap
> supplemental mixer with some more pre-amps) or not? Lots of cash has
> been spent lately and it would be nice not to spend more, but I will
> do what has to be done.
>
Best option is to trade up the mixer. Second is to add the supplemental
mixer and mix from 2 mixers.
Mike D.
> Nat
Phil Allison
"Nat"
>
> I'm sorry for a way too long post. To simplify, one of my main
> questions is this: If DI boxes change electronic drum or other
> instrument output signals from line level to mic level (as I
> understand that they do), how is it I don't need a mic-pre at the
> board to run the DI-boxed electronic drums?
** Your confusion is over terminology, mainly because although "line level"
is defined - " mic level" is not.
Also, stage instruments like acoustic / electric guitars, basses and even
most keyboards do not deliver a " line level" signal.
For example: a good quality *active* DI will operate fine with input signals
as little as a few millivolts, as would be expected from a contact pickup.
This sure AIN'T " line level ".
A condenser microphone placed in front of a guitar amp or in the hands of a
singer with a powerful voice can easily output signals of 1 volt rms -
which IS " line level" .
So each DI application has to be treated individually - basically by trial
and error to see what WORKS.
....... Phil
Tim Perry
> I'm sorry for a way too long post. To simplify, one of my main
> questions is this: If DI boxes change electronic drum or other
> instrument output signals from line level to mic level (as I
> understand that they do)
Your basic supposition is wrong. A passive DI is a transformer. Some do
have additional pads or switches to attenuate the signal. Some even can do
speaker level to mic level attenuation.
An active DI such as you sampson has a very high Z input (greater the 1
MegOhm). it provides an electronically balanced output.
The manual is here
http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/S-direct_ownman.pdf
>, how is it I don't need a mic-pre at the
> board to run the DI-boxed electronic drums? With the drums on stage,
> I seem to be successful plugging them into an active Samson S-direct
> DI pair and running up the snake to line-level inputs. With little to
> no additional gain from the board, I seem to be getting the signal I
> need. It doesn't make sense to me.
The drums probably have enough output to drive the line in directly.
Nat
> Also, stage instruments like acoustic / electric guitars, basses and even
> most keyboards do not deliver a " line level" signal.
Is there a way to know what level of signal they do deliver before you
put them on stage and try them with DI's? A lot of manuals don't seem
to give much more than the most basic information about the consumer-
level instrument's outputs.
> For example: a good quality *active* DI will operate fine with input signals
> as little as a few millivolts, as would be expected from a contact pickup.
> This sure AIN'T " line level ".
>
> A condenser microphone placed in front of a guitar amp or in the hands of a
> singer with a powerful voice can easily output signals of 1 volt rms -
> which IS " line level" .
This fascinates me. For that condenser in front of the amp or the
powerful singer, could you run the condenser into the line input of a
board?
What does "pre-amp" mean exactly, anyway? Since my line level
channels have gains that run from -20 to +20, doesn't that mean that
those channels have some amount of preamplification themselves?
Nat
Phil Allison
"Nat"
> Also, stage instruments like acoustic / electric guitars, basses and even
> most keyboards do not deliver a " line level" signal.
Is there a way to know what level of signal they do deliver before you
put them on stage and try them with DI's?
** No - you have to find out by trying.
The player CONTROLS the signal level in any case.
> For example: a good quality *active* DI will operate fine with input
> signals
> as little as a few millivolts, as would be expected from a contact pickup.
> This sure AIN'T " line level ".
>
> A condenser microphone placed in front of a guitar amp or in the hands of
> a
> singer with a powerful voice can easily output signals of 1 volt rms -
> which IS " line level" .
This fascinates me. For that condenser in front of the amp or the
powerful singer, could you run the condenser into the line input of a
board?
** No - as there is no phantom power with line inputs.
Dynamics can output signals sometimes that would operate OK into a line
level input.
> What does "pre-amp" mean exactly, anyway?
** Anything that amplifies a signal prior to another device.
..... Phil
Nat
> Your basic supposition is wrong. A passive DI is a transformer. Some do
> have additional pads or switches to attenuate the signal. Some even can do
> speaker level to mic level attenuation.
Does using that transformer lower signal level? That is, if I choose
not to attenuate with my passive Art Z-Directs, does that mean that
the signal level from the instrument is not lowered in route down the
snake to the board? My Onyx 1620 manual has hookup diagrams that show
keyboards being plugged directly into the line inputs, but I've always
wondered if they could have drawn the same diagram with the keyboard
plugged into DI's (with no attenuation engaged) and then into the line
level inputs.
> The drums probably have enough output to drive the line in directly.
Should I expect the drums' output level to be reduced by going into
the active Samson DI's? I always thought the answer to this was yes,
but now I'm unsure.
Phil Allison
"Nat" <natj...@gmail.com>
** Kindly learn how to use * usenet * properly - right now you are doing it
all wrong.
NEVER erase the name and email addy of the person you are replying to !!!
Go to Reply and then Options on your GG page and set it so the prior text is
all quoted visibly.
...... Phil
geoff
>
> This fascinates me. For that condenser in front of the amp or the
> powerful singer, could you run the condenser into the line input of a
> board?
>
>
> ** No - as there is no phantom power with line inputs.
... and the load impedence is likely to be wrong for the mic.
geoff
Nat
> "Nat" <natjor...@gmail.com>
Sorry about that. What is my GG page?
Tim Perry
On Feb 10, 5:12 pm, "Tim Perry" <timpe...@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:
> Your basic supposition is wrong. A passive DI is a transformer. Some do
> have additional pads or switches to attenuate the signal. Some even can do
> speaker level to mic level attenuation.
>Does using that transformer lower signal level?
Most passive DI's that I have measured use a transformer with a 4:1 turns
ratio. In the parts example I listed it shows one with a 6:1 turns ratio.
This means this is some reduction signal level (usually). How significant
that is depends on the individual equipment and circumstances. I believe one
time in the distant past I used 2 DIs back to back because I needed some
isolation and could not afford any loss. IRRC I was driving a broadcast
telco loop with a comp/limiter. Why I didn't just turn it around and use as
a step up I don't recall. Probably a matter of available
connectors/adaptors.
When used 'normally' on a mic input there is enough gain available that the
step-down is not a relevant factor. Just set the level and go on with the
show.
> That is, if I choose
not to attenuate with my passive Art Z-Directs, does that mean that
the signal level from the instrument is not lowered in route down the
snake to the board? My Onyx 1620 manual has hookup diagrams that show
keyboards being plugged directly into the line inputs, but I've always
wondered if they could have drawn the same diagram with the keyboard
plugged into DI's (with no attenuation engaged) and then into the line
level inputs.
> The drums probably have enough output to drive the line in directly.
>Should I expect the drums' output level to be reduced by going into
the active Samson DI's? I always thought the answer to this was yes,
but now I'm unsure.
I cannot tell by the available information, however it would be easy enough
for you to test. You wont need any fancy equipment. Just use any means to
generate a constant signal. Feed to the mixer and set a reference level.
Then insert the DI between the signal and the mixer and see what happens..
I have one of these
http://www.wwbw.com/Rolls-RDB104-Quad-Active-Direct-Box-i11858.music
Note the gain is -infinity to 0 dB.
I routinely use a PreSonus Bluetube preamp fed from the headphone output of
a Casio keyboard with the pads in and gains at minimum. So far it has worked
every time. I may try the Behringer dual active DI this week instead.
this is a case where attenuation is desired.
Nat
> This fascinates me. For that condenser in front of the amp or the
> powerful singer, could you run the condenser into the line input of a
> board?
>
> ** No - as there is no phantom power with line inputs.
Perhaps with a battery-powered condenser, then?
> > What does "pre-amp" mean exactly, anyway?
>
> ** Anything that amplifies a signal prior to another device.
>
> ..... Phil
Can one say that each of my mic channels and stereo line channels have
pre-amps? I had always thought of the word preamp as meaning
something for mic channels only.
(Please let me know if I'm still posting incorrectly.)
Nat
Nat
But the load impedance would be right for a DI-boxed instrument?
Phil Allison
Phil Allison
"Nat" <natj...@gmail.com
"Phil Allison"
> This fascinates me. For that condenser in front of the amp or the
> powerful singer, could you run the condenser into the line input of a
> board?
>
> ** No - as there is no phantom power with line inputs.
Perhaps with a battery-powered condenser, then?
** You go find out.
> > What does "pre-amp" mean exactly, anyway?
>
> ** Anything that amplifies a signal prior to another device.
>
Can one say that each of my mic channels and stereo line channels have
pre-amps?
** Yep.
I had always thought of the word preamp as meaning
something for mic channels only.
** Nope.
You just gotta be aware when folk are using shorthand - ie when "pre" =
mic preamp.
(Please let me know if I'm still posting incorrectly.)
** Yep.
Dunno how your text appears with no indent marks when quoted.
..... Phil
Phil Allison
Nat
>
> ** GG = Google Groups.
>
> ...... Phil
Thanks. Do you mean I should click the "more options" at the top of
posts and change my settings there in some manner? I would like to
mend my ways but I am a little at a loss for how to post better
replies, even after looking at the groups help menu.
Nat
Nat
> Perhaps with a battery-powered condenser, then?
>
> ** You go find out.
Right on.
> Can one say that each of my mic channels and stereo line channels have
> pre-amps?
>
> ** Yep.
>
> I had always thought of the word preamp as meaning
> something for mic channels only.
>
> ** Nope.
>
> You just gotta be aware when folk are using shorthand - ie when "pre" =
> mic preamp.
Gotcha, thx.
Nat
wrote:
> When used 'normally' on a mic input there is enough gain available that the
> step-down is not a relevant factor. Just set the level and go on with the
> show.
In my case, I hope that works for a line input.
> >Should I expect the drums' output level to be reduced by going
into
>
> the active Samson DI's? I always thought the answer to this was yes,
> but now I'm unsure.
>
> I cannot tell by the available information, however it would be easy enough
> for you to test. You wont need any fancy equipment. Just use any means to
> generate a constant signal. Feed to the mixer and set a reference level.
> Then insert the DI between the signal and the mixer and see what happens..
Will do.
Nat
liquidator
Ignore Geoff- he is wrong. Phil is right- the issue is no phantom.
Otherwise that mic wil drive the input fine.
geoff
> "Nat" <natj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7d79d108-08f2-49bf...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 10, 9:49 pm, "geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>> This fascinates me. For that condenser in front of the amp or the
>>> powerful singer, could you run the condenser into the line input of
>>> a board?
>>
>>> ** No - as there is no phantom power with line inputs.
>>
>> ... and the load impedence is likely to be wrong for the mic.
>>
>> geoff
>
> But the load impedance would be right for a DI-boxed instrument?
If somewhere around 500R to 2K - check the specs.
>
> Ignore Geoff- he is wrong. Phil is right- the issue is no phantom.
> Otherwise that mic wil drive the input fine.
Kinda depends what the line-input impedence is. If it is anything over a
couple of K, then it will likely be inappropriate for any self-powered
condensor mic, as will likely give a strange frequency response.
Of course phantom powered mics are unusable into a line input , unless a
phantom supply box is inserted.
And It will be too insensitive to be useful for any dymanic mic, maybe
apart from an SM57 a few cm away from a snare.
Nathaniel
> liquidator wrote:
> > the issue is no phantom.
> > Otherwise that mic wil drive the input fine.
>
> Kinda depends what the line-input impedence is. If it is anything over a
> couple of K, then it will likely be inappropriate for any self-powered
> condensor mic, as will likely give a strange frequency response.
>
> Of course phantom powered mics are unusable into a line input , unless a
> phantom supply box is inserted.
>
> And It will be too insensitive to be useful for any dymanic mic, maybe
> apart from an SM57 a few cm away from a snare.
Thanks.
Phil Allison
"Nathaniel" <natj...@gmail.com>
>>
>> And It will be too insensitive to be useful for any dymanic mic, maybe
>> apart from an SM57 a few cm away from a snare.
>
> Thanks.
>
** Another rule of usenet is NOT to thank half wits for posting utter
TRIPE.
It tends to piss off the folk you gave you correct info.
...... Phil
geoff
He thanked me , not you.
Which of my points exactly do you disagree with ? Technical reason please,
not ovine-related outburst.
geoff
Phil Allison
"geoff"
>>>
>>>> And It will be too insensitive to be useful for any dymanic mic,
>>>> maybe apart from an SM57 a few cm away from a snare.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> ** Another rule of usenet is NOT to thank half wits for posting
>> utter TRIPE.
>>
>> It tends to piss off the folk you gave you correct info.
>
> He thanked me , not you.
>
> Which of my points exactly do you disagree with ?
** All of them.
They are all simply totally wrong.
YOU have to post proper technical reasons why YOU believe them.
Not audiophool bollocks.
....... Phil
liquidator
"geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:dMydnekinpMLJy3a...@giganews.com...
You are absolutely 100% WRONG.
A typical output from a condenser mic- will drive a hi-z source just fine.
Most outputs from a board are low z. How do they drive a hi-z amp input in
your fantasy world?
You need to learn a LOT about basic interfacing- you couldn't even pass a
beginner's class.
liquidator
"Nathaniel" <natj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ccdb8a0d-9606-407f...@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 4:13 pm, "geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote:
> > liquidator wrote:
>
> > > the issue is no phantom.
> > > Otherwise that mic wil drive the input fine.
> >
> > Kinda depends what the line-input impedence is. If it is anything over
a
> > couple of K, then it will likely be inappropriate for any self-powered
> > condensor mic, as will likely give a strange frequency response.
> >
>
Nathaniel- he is just plain wrong. Believe at your own risk.
geoff
> You are absolutely 100% WRONG.
>
> A typical output from a condenser mic- will drive a hi-z source just
> fine.
Depends what you mean by 'just fine'. Sure they will all drive it, but how
well depends on the reactive components of the mic output capacitor(s) or
transformer, if used. Sure, the effect will be minimal in comparison with a
dynamic mic where the mismatch would be reflected in the actual diaphram
loading itself.
>
> Most outputs from a board are low z. How do they drive a hi-z amp
> input in your fantasy world?
Just fine, unless the design of the input or output are critically specced
for a specific impedence. Not often a factor with modern equipment.
>
> You need to learn a LOT about basic interfacing- you couldn't even
> pass a beginner's class.
OK.
geoff
geoff
>>
>
> Nathaniel- he is just plain wrong. Believe at your own risk.
Your own risk ? Fuck, it's risky putting a mic into a mic input !
Try your mic into a line input (unless it requires phantom power). If it
works for you use it. If it doesn't, then don't.
geoff
Phil Allison
"geoff"
> liquidator wrote:
>> You are absolutely 100% WRONG.
>>
>> A typical output from a condenser mic- will drive a hi-z source just
>> fine.
>
> Depends what you mean by 'just fine'. Sure they will all drive it, but
> how well depends on the reactive components of the mic output
> capacitor(s) or transformer, if used.
** Yawn - more asinine audiophool drivel.
> Sure, the effect will be minimal in comparison with a dynamic mic where
> the mismatch would be reflected in the actual diaphram loading itself.
** Absolute drivel.
......... Phil
Rupert
> liquidator wrote:
> > You are absolutely 100% WRONG.
>
> > A typical output from a condenser mic- will drive a hi-z source just
> > fine.
>
> Depends what you mean by 'just fine'. Sure they will all drive it, but how
> well depends on the reactive components of the mic output capacitor(s) or
> transformer, if used. Sure, the effect will be minimal in comparison with a
> dynamic mic where the mismatch would be reflected in the actual diaphram
> loading itself.
You seem to have it backward. The higher the impedance of the input
you're driving, the LESS "loading" occurs. You're average mixer's mic
input impedance is usually somewhere between 1.3k-2k ohms. You're
average line input is more like 20k ohms. That means negligible
loading on the mic or even a "line level" source, period. The only
issue is voltage. If the mic can supply enough voltage, it can drive a
line input. It's basic electronics. Granted, there are fancy mic pre's
out there that have selectable input impedances. But those are to
purposely change the mic "loading" to achieve a certain sound.
Rupert
Ty Ford
(in article <dMydnekinpMLJy3a...@giganews.com>):
> Of course phantom powered mics are unusable into a line input , unless a
> phantom supply box is inserted.
>
> And It will be too insensitive to be useful for any dymanic mic, maybe
> apart from an SM57 a few cm away from a snare.
The TLM 103 (with inline Phantom Supply) will deliver enough signal for line
level if you put it in front of a cranked guitar amp.
Regards,
Ty Ford
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU
liquidator
> liquidator wrote:
> > "Nathaniel" <natj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> .
> >>
> >
> > Nathaniel- he is just plain wrong. Believe at your own risk.
>
> Your own risk ? Fuck, it's risky putting a mic into a mic input !
Nope it's not. No damage will occur putting a mic into a line input. The
risk is looking foolish by repeating false information, or worse, losing
money by acting on false info.
>
> Try your mic into a line input (unless it requires phantom power). If it
> works for you use it. If it doesn't, then don't.
>
> geoff
You finally got it right- experimentation is the only way here.
One thing you are doing is confusing active and passive devices.. Almost
every active device will work fine into hi-z.
Way back in the early 70's Altec made passive crossovers for biamping. In
the case of a filter, the impedance it looks at is critical. The solution?
Slug a cheapo 610 ohm resistor across the out. A 610 ohm resistor and a 50k
load is close enough to the required 600 ohms for rock and roll.
As has been stated elsewhere in the thread- 100 ohm outputs REGULARY drive
hi-z line inputs. Common practice.
geoff
OK. So thanks for that concise summary of the flaws in my suggestion.
geoff
geoff
> On Feb 12, 4:13 am, "geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote:
>> liquidator wrote:
>>> You are absolutely 100% WRONG.
>>
>>> A typical output from a condenser mic- will drive a hi-z source just
>>> fine.
>>
>> Depends what you mean by 'just fine'. Sure they will all drive it,
>> but how well depends on the reactive components of the mic output
>> capacitor(s) or transformer, if used. Sure, the effect will be
>> minimal in comparison with a dynamic mic where the mismatch would be
>> reflected in the actual diaphram loading itself.
>
> You seem to have it backward. The higher the impedance of the input
> you're driving, the LESS "loading" occurs.
Yes exactly. And less loading than that designed for can be detrimental.
geoff
Phil Allison
"geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz
** Baaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
*** They are all simply totally WRONG.
YOU have to post * proper technical reasons* why YOU believe them.
Not audiophool bollocks.
Now fuck off - you PITA mental retard.
....... Phil
geoff
> "geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:zOKdnXEWlOBYgCza...@giganews.com...
>> liquidator wrote:
>>> "Nathaniel" <natj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nathaniel- he is just plain wrong. Believe at your own risk.
>>
>> Your own risk ? Fuck, it's risky putting a mic into a mic input !
>
> Nope it's not. No damage will occur putting a mic into a line input.
> The risk is looking foolish by repeating false information, or worse,
> losing money by acting on false info.
>>
>> Try your mic into a line input (unless it requires phantom power).
>> If it works for you use it. If it doesn't, then don't.
>>
>> geoff
>
>
>
> You finally got it right- experimentation is the only way here.
>
> One thing you are doing is confusing active and passive devices..
> Almost every active device will work fine into hi-z.
Example. An C414B-ULS is an active device, and it has a transformer-coupled
output. The output characteristics will alter with different loads.
geoff
Phil Allison
"geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz>
** Baaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> liquidator wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nathaniel- he is just plain wrong. Believe at your own risk.
>>>
>>> Your own risk ? Fuck, it's risky putting a mic into a mic input !
>>
>> Nope it's not. No damage will occur putting a mic into a line input.
>> The risk is looking foolish by repeating false information, or worse,
>> losing money by acting on false info.
>>>
>>> Try your mic into a line input (unless it requires phantom power).
>>> If it works for you use it. If it doesn't, then don't.
>>>
>>> geoff
>>
>>
>>
>> You finally got it right- experimentation is the only way here.
>>
>> One thing you are doing is confusing active and passive devices..
>> Almost every active device will work fine into hi-z.
>
> Example. An C414B-ULS is an active device, and it has a
> transformer-coupled output. The output characteristics will alter with
> different loads.
** That is totally meaningless drivel.
YOU have to post proper technical reasons why YOU believe these mad ideas.
Not more and more audiophool bollocks that you picked up like a contagious
disease on some audio fuckwit NG.
....... Phil
Phil Allison
"geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz>
** Baaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> Rupert wrote:
>>
>> You seem to have it backward. The higher the impedance of the input
>> you're driving, the LESS "loading" occurs.
>
> Yes exactly. And less loading than that designed for can be detrimental.
Nathaniel
> You finally got it right- experimentation is the only way here.
>
> One thing you are doing is confusing active and passive devices.. Almost
> every active device will work fine into hi-z.
>
> Way back in the early 70's Altec made passive crossovers for biamping. In
> the case of a filter, the impedance it looks at is critical. The solution?
> Slug a cheapo 610 ohm resistor across the out. A 610 ohm resistor and a 50k
> load is close enough to the required 600 ohms for rock and roll.
>
> As has been stated elsewhere in the thread- 100 ohm outputs REGULARY drive
> hi-z line inputs. Common practice.
Thanks. It seems to be working, so I will stay the course. There is
a lot I don't know about audio and physics, but I do enjoy working
with it and I appreciate the time taken to help me out.
Ty Ford
(in article <61egdeF...@mid.individual.net>):
> Not more and more audiophool bollocks that you picked up like a contagious
> disease on some audio fuckwit NG.
> ....... Phil
Not helpful.
Ty Ford
(in article <61eg62F...@mid.individual.net>):
> Not audiophool bollocks.
>
> Now fuck off - you PITA mental retard.
>
>
>
>
> ....... Phil
again, not helpful to the entire group.
Phil Allison
"Ty Ford" <tyre...@comcast.net>
** Another incorrigible usenet criminal.
> Phil Allison
>
>> Not more and more audiophool bollocks that you picked up like a
>> contagious
>> disease on some audio fuckwit NG.
>
>
> Not helpful.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
** Lookie here - the NUMBER ONE disease CARRIER has just revealed
himself.
You can see the ugly, festering pustules all over him.
Peeeeeukkkkkkeeeeeee
...... Phil
Phil Allison
Ty Ford
(in article <61jngcF...@mid.individual.net>):
Get a grip there Phil. We were doing pretty well the last time we crossed
emails, now you're sort of out of control and embarrassing the group.
That's not cool.
Phil Allison
"Ty Ford " = another smug, pig ignorant septic asshole
** Lookie here - the NUMBER ONE audiophool disease CARRIER
has just revealed himself.
You can see the ugly, festering pustules all over him.
Peeeeeukkkkkkeeeeeee
....... Phil
Danny T
Isn't Phil the groundhog ?
I rather appreciate Ty's useful and helpful posts.
Phil Allison
"Danny Turd"
"Ty Ford " = another smug, pig ignorant septic asshole
>
> ** Lookie here - the NUMBER ONE audiophool disease CARRIER
>
> has just revealed himself.
>
> You can see the ugly, festering pustules all over him.
>
> Peeeeeukkkkkkeeeeeee
>
I rather appreciate Ty's useful and helpful posts.
** Huh - what secret NG are they on ?
Are you confessing to being yet another gullible, audiophool jerk off ?
....... Phil
Danny
That's right - get rude to me just because I don't agree with you.
Ty Ford
(in article
<b5847611-28b6-49b6...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):
Hey Phil, you're in the UK, right?
Do you have Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)? Too little light at the end of
winter can make February a real problem for SAD sufferers.
Full spectrum light boxes seem to help.
In any case, your present behavior is akin to the guy who purposely farts in
a full elevator. You think you're a riot. How does it feel to be that alone?
This NG won't be ruined by your behavior, but your restraint would do a lot
to make it a nicer place.
Regards,
Peter Larsen
> Hey Phil, you're in the UK, right?
No no no, Mr. Allison lives in a province of Tasmania, we expect them to
replace their queen with our Queen within a few decades.
> Do you have Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)? Too little light at
> the end of winter can make February a real problem for SAD sufferers.
Not correct, Candle Mass - kyndelmisse - in the middle of february is held
in celebration of the return of the light of day. Which is to say that about
now is when the winter depression ought to be over and done with.
> Full spectrum light boxes seem to help.
Understanding that it is a property of mankind and of the location helps
even more. It is not a disorder, it is just like it is, a time for
contemplation and drinking mugs of warm beverage.
> In any case, your present behavior is akin to the guy who purposely
> farts in a full elevator. You think you're a riot. How does it feel
> to be that alone?
> This NG won't be ruined by your behavior, but your restraint would do
> a lot to make it a nicer place.
If you walk on a beach you get grains of sand in your shoes. Phil is the
least of our worries here, he is mostly on topic and obviously off topic
when he isn't and frequently a refererence manual on technical issues,
although not always right in a way that can be described as humble.
> Ty Ford
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Arny Krueger
news:TJKdnXq8Pd2zlyra...@comcast.com
> Hey Phil, you're in the UK, right?
No, he's from Down Under.
> Do you have Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)? Too little
> light at the end of winter can make February a real
> problem for SAD sufferers.
>
> Full spectrum light boxes seem to help.
The Aussies are currently enjoying summer.
> In any case, your present behavior is akin to the guy who
> purposely farts in a full elevator. You think you're a
> riot. How does it feel to be that alone?
Phil A is an interesting study. If you check out his writings here:
http://sound.westhost.com/index2.html
They are just fine.
> This NG won't be ruined by your behavior, but your
> restraint would do a lot to make it a nicer place.
After about 12 years on Usenet, and another 10 years on various BBSs before
that, I would say that the majority of the odd behavior we see is due to
these sources:
(1) Bipolar syndrome. The poor soul is peaking, and that's how they often
act. When they are down, they can't even muster what it takes to log on. We
don't seem them posting for a while and then...
(2) Other affect problems for which effective therapy exists, but the poor
soul won't get on, or stay on a program.
(3) Real time substance abuse. IOW, the ppor guy is blitzed out while
posting.
(4) People just get temporarily wound up by the usual give-and-take of
Usenet. Often happens to newbies.
(5) People who are in some other kind of emotional or physical distress, and
it spills over here.
geoff
> Hey Phil, you're in the UK, right?
>
> Do you have Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)? Too little light at
> the end of winter can make February a real problem for SAD sufferers.
>
> Full spectrum light boxes seem to help.
>
> In any case, your present behavior is akin to the guy who purposely
> farts in a full elevator. You think you're a riot. How does it feel
> to be that alone?
>
> This NG won't be ruined by your behavior, but your restraint would do
> a lot to make it a nicer place.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
Naa - he in Australia. It's always summer there, so Phil's disorder in
continual.
This also explains his somewhat restricted vocabulary. So I'm about to be
an asinine sheep-shagger again, unless he works really hard on epanding his
lamentably restricted repertiore of invective.
geoff
Phildo
"Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:RMadnQSY4pHhryXa...@comcast.com...
> After about 12 years on Usenet, and another 10 years on various BBSs
> before that, I would say that the majority of the odd behavior we see is
> due to these sources:
>
> (1) Bipolar syndrome. The poor soul is peaking, and that's how they often
> act. When they are down, they can't even muster what it takes to log on.
> We don't seem them posting for a while and then...
> (2) Other affect problems for which effective therapy exists, but the poor
> soul won't get on, or stay on a program.
> (3) Real time substance abuse. IOW, the ppor guy is blitzed out while
> posting.
> (4) People just get temporarily wound up by the usual give-and-take of
> Usenet. Often happens to newbies.
> (5) People who are in some other kind of emotional or physical distress,
> and it spills over here.
You are such a hypocrite. You seem to suffer from 1,2 and 5, especially 2
but lack the balls to admit you have a problem and get the help you so badly
need. Pretty selfish of you really but then that's what everyone on usenet
has come to expect from you.
Phildo
geoff
Nobody was talking about you Phildo, is was your antipodean namsake who was
being referred to.
geoff
Phildo
I am fully aware of that. I was referring to how hypocritical Arny was
being.
Phildo
Arny Krueger
> Nobody was talking about you Phildo, is was your
> antipodean namsake who was being referred to.
Obviously, I struck a sensitive nerve. One thing about people that are in
denial is that they are so anxious to deny, whether they are being mentioned
or not.
Ty Ford
(in article <KMmdna0c5tmVcyXa...@comcast.com>):
(Arny, thank you for your support)
We all know how this movie ends. Can we not go there this time?
Regards,
Phildo
> Obviously, I struck a sensitive nerve.
No, you just made an incredibly hypocritical statement which I personally
found v ery offensive. YOU are the biggest problem on this newsgroup and if
you followed your own psychobabble then you should fuck off and get some
serious mental help leaving the rest of us to enjoy a newsgroup free of the
krooger bullshit.
>One thing about people that are in denial is that they are so anxious to
>deny, whether they are being mentioned or not.
YOU are the one who is in denial here Arnold. Get help, seriously.
Phildo
Phildo
> (Arny, thank you for your support)
> We all know how this movie ends. Can we not go there this time?
Not helpful.
Phildo
Ty Ford
(in article <61uebvF...@mid.individual.net>):
not helpful,
Phildo
> not helpful,
>
> Ty Ford
Not helpful.
Phildo
Phildo
"Ty Ford" <tyre...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:S9WdnX43RvMTQCfa...@comcast.com...
> not helpful,
Actually my comments on Arny being hypocritical and a plague on this
newsgroup (and most of usenet) were spot on.
You sanctimonious and patronising comments however - not helpful.
Get over yourself already.
Phildo
Ty Ford
(in article <62102mF...@mid.individual.net>):
Not helpful. Stop attacking people.
geoff
Unless there is anomaly in the space-time contiuum, he cannot possibly "get
over himself already", because if he had got over it already, the direction
would be redundant.
The dangers of meth and yank TV eh !
geoff