The Great Sound Guy Pet Peeve Post!
clove
Here are a few that came to mind.
1. Improper lead vocal mic technique, specifically the now classic
"thumb over the diaphram cause I look so hard making a fist on the mic"
technique that is so admired in all forms of scremo to hip hop. That's
gotta be number one...you know it..you all know it.
2. No sound hole in the front bass drum head. Ok..well I can understand
some drummers not wanting to put a hole in the front head, but for the
majority of drummers in modern music right now.. this just sounds like
shit. Everybody wants the arguably "fake" sound of the kick drums you
hear in modern rock, without any understanding of how to help achieve
that sound. You have to have a hole for most club setups. (This does
not apply for the bigger rigs where you can use multiple kick drum
mics, etc..so don't get on my case mr van halen FOH.)
3. Bass player telling me he has a Direct Out on his bass rig.
Nah..really? Well FMR..when did they start doing that?? O.k..this is
really not that big a deal.. just annoying after YEARS of hearing it
night after night.
4. MUSICIANS and their friends MOVING THE MICROPHONES WITHOUT ASKING
ANYBODY FIRST....Like you know.. THE SOUNDGUY!! Same goes for monitors.
I once had a guy come in..setup his guitar rig..then proceed to move
one of my monitors about 3-4ft from it's original location. No asking..
just did it. ..So when his back was turned to pay attention to
something else he was working.. I moved his guitar rig to the other
side of the stage. When he was confused by the change in his rigs
location..and went to get it.. I moved my monitor back. THIS HAPPENED
TWICE over before the inevitable "hey man..WTF do you think you are
doing with my guitar rig" vs my "hey a-hole, WTF do you think you are
doing with my monitors?" discussion was had. Leave stuff that is not
yours alone! Your friends are not qualified to do much more than buy
you beers, and I have to answer for the equipment and pay to replace
it. You handle your stuff..the sound guy will handle their own.
5. Asking the crowd if it "sounds good out there" after the first song.
Shut up and play and let me worry about what the "sound" is.. Trust
me.. I am more tuned into my room than you will ever be.
I will wrap up my pet peeves with this
6. Remember the sound guys NAME if he gives it to you. Nobody wants to
hear.."Hey, Mr. Soundman.. or Mr. Soundguy" from the stage anymore. If
you have been given a name for your sound person.. respect it enough to
use it! You will get a much better reaction from the soundguy...really.
Try it sometime. I stop listening at "Mister..Sou.." ! Done.. not
going to help out much if I don't think you need it. You ask me by my
name.. well then everything is really personal and friendly. Sound guys
do not have to be viewed as postal workers. (No offense to the
hardworking postal workers of the world) Rock and Roll is supposed to
be fun. Really! Lighten up folks.
Hpe this gets the ball rolling!
I can think of a ton more.. but I don't want to take up all the good ones left.
Cheers!
AustinMN
The above sounds like a list from soneone who has forgotten that he
provides a service...of all the things the soundy is, the sound guy is
not the customer.
Now, for a couple of my peves:
Self-appointed experts. "Can you fix that? It sounds (bad/loud/not
loud enough/lacks talent etc.)."
Guitarists (or, occasionally, keyboardists) who "know" that they are
the only reason for the show (and make sure their amps dominate the
room).
Lighting guys who think my power is their power. Get your noisy crap
away from me.
Austin
mcsteve
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>
> Here are a few that came to mind.
>
Guitarists who don't bring their own cable,
strap, picks, etc. Most commonly, acoustic
players.
Yo, sport...You own a guitar with a pickup in it,
you should have your own damn cable.
Drummers who want their whole kit, plus the entire
band, in their monitor mix. Might as well set up out
on the floor, and listen to the mains.
My other pet peeve is people on usenet who cannot
grasp the concept of snipping.
(see first reply in this thread)
--
Steve McQ
Frisco
wrote:
> Rock and Roll is supposed to
>be fun. Really! Lighten up folks.
Me thinks you need to take your own advice there, mister. Man, I'd
hate to be playing in YOUR club. You sound like you have a chip on
your shoulder the size of Cleveland and it's aimed at all musicans.
Sheesh... (I work on both sides of the mic, BTW)
Paul
jakdedert
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>
> Here are a few that came to mind.
>
>
> Hpe this gets the ball rolling!
>
> I can think of a ton more.. but I don't want to take up all the good
> ones left.
>
> Cheers!
>
Cheers indeed. I think you need to take a vacation. <g>
FWIW, I guess top of the list would be musos who show up late...bitching
abut how early it is (after I've there for hours setting up the system).
But then, I've always said the Music Biz is great...except for the
inevitable 'having to deal with musicians' thing.
<BFG>
jak
>
>
AustinMN
<snip>
> My other pet peeve is people on usenet who cannot
> grasp the concept of snipping.
> (see first reply in this thread)
I snip more than most, so I have the concept. Problem is, this time I
just got too lazy. Point taken, however.
Austin
0jun...@bellsouth.net
On 2007-01-30 2007013005080716807-mastercloveclove@yahoocom said:
>Newsgroups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound
>FWIW, I guess top of the list would be musos who show up late...
>bitching abut how early it is (after I've there for hours setting
>up the system).
in this thread on poor mic technique from the screamers and
hip hop crowd. Learn how to use the damned microphone will
ya?
Richard Webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.
Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.
TimPerry
"you have to move that sound system" spoken by some jerk that wasn't there
for setup.
michael gaster
usually "those aren't cymbal mics"
The house guy/monitor guy who rolls his eyes when I ask him to flatten the
graph on a mix left from before, knowing that I just put up my mic kit and
don't use 57's and 58's like he does.
the artists who absolutely has to have ______ but doesn't travel with it.
being asked "do you know what all of those controls do?" I usually respond
with "yeah and I hope my accountant knows the Tax code"
hearing anyone say "they don't need all of that" my thought is "look here
dip shit are you making the music?"
hearing stage hands talkabout overtime on late nights, Sundays, and
holidays -its the fucking entertainment industry, if we went to work when
everyone else was at work there wouldn't be a god damn person in the
audience to pay you regular time dip shit!
--
Michael Gaster
Gaster Engineering
none
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>
> Here are a few that came to mind.
>
> 1. Improper lead vocal mic technique,
Yes, that is lame.
3. Bass player telling me he has a Direct Out on his bass rig.
> Nah..really? Well FMR..when did they start doing that?? O.k..this is
> really not that big a deal.. just annoying after YEARS of hearing it
> night after night.
So you've memorized all bass heads, and pre-amps, so you know which have
direct out? Does my Paevey ProBass1000 have a direct out?....
(yes) Do you have a way I can use my rack effects, with your DI?
If you've been hearing it for years, you'll hear it forever. Cowboy up,
and deal with it. No use getting annoyed, by something that you can't
change.
> 5. Asking the crowd if it "sounds good out there" after the first song.
> Shut up and play and let me worry about what the "sound" is.. Trust me..
> I am more tuned into my room than you will ever be.
Yeah, that's a bit insulting. So what. F 'em. They're just musos, bless
their hearts. Cowboy up.
> I will wrap up my pet peeves with this
>
> 6. Remember the sound guys NAME if he gives it to you. Nobody wants to
> hear.."Hey, Mr. Soundman.. or Mr. Soundguy" from the stage anymore. If
Sheesh you sure get your feelings hurt easily. Cowboy up. It's normal
in the trades to call people by their trade. Hey plumber, sparky,
framer....
0jun...@bellsouth.net
On 2007-01-30 gas...@gastereng.com said:
>The house guy/monitor guy who rolls his eyes when I ask him to
>flatten the graph on a mix left from before, knowing that I just
>put up my mic kit and don't use 57's and 58's like he does.
thing myself.
>the artists who absolutely has to have ______ but doesn't travel
>with it.
HEy now, he's a star don'tcha know? You're supposed to be
there with one for him/her, especially if nobody told you,
because you can just read her mind now. NOne of her
entourage told you she'd need it, rider said nothing about
it. NOne of those folks traveling with her could properly
advance her show either ya know.
>being asked "do you know what all of those controls do?" I usually
>respond with "yeah and I hope my accountant knows the Tax code"
My response is usually more like "Yah I know what all those
controls do now siddown and stfu."
>hearing anyone say "they don't need all of that" my thought is
>"look here dip shit are you making the music?"
TOld a few folks that one too.
My favorite is still the geriatric who happens to be hanging
out for some reason when I haven't even rung out the
monitors yet and is complaining about it's too loud.
Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.
YOu can suck out the frequency, but you can't frequency
out the suck.
mcsteve
> My favorite is still the geriatric who happens to be hanging
> out for some reason when I haven't even rung out the
> monitors yet and is complaining about it's too loud.
>
Or, the dimbulb who insists on sitting right down front,
in front of the stacks, and then complains it's too loud.
--
Steve McQ
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
>
> >hearing anyone say "they don't need all of that" my thought is
> >"look here dip shit are you making the music?"
I guess you never worked with Benevetto/russo duo :-)
how about the guy who puts 6 or so instruments(6 string, 12 string acoustic
guitars, couple of electrics,resonator guitar,mando and such), along with
multiple amps, makes me DI/mic each one to thier own channel
sound checks each into 4 seperate mixes to make sure al his bandmates can
hear him
uses up at least a hour of soundcheck with this bullshit
then plays one god damn electric guitar all night
Earl Grey
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>
> Here are a few that came to mind.
>
> 1. Improper lead vocal mic technique, specifically the now classic
> "thumb over the diaphram cause I look so hard making a fist on the mic"
> technique that is so admired in all forms of scremo to hip hop. That's
> gotta be number one...you know it..you all know it.
LOL, next you will be complaining about their diction and telling them
to pull their trousers up and put their hats on straight !!
>
> 2. No sound hole in the front bass drum head. Ok..well I can understand
> some drummers not wanting to put a hole in the front head, but for the
> majority of drummers in modern music right now.. this just sounds like
> shit. Everybody wants the arguably "fake" sound of the kick drums you
> hear in modern rock, without any understanding of how to help achieve
> that sound. You have to have a hole for most club setups. (This does not
> apply for the bigger rigs where you can use multiple kick drum mics,
> etc..so don't get on my case mr van halen FOH.)
You will come across this from time to time, so learn to deal with it
and find a mic that works for you on the beater side. Its just another
drum, a tom played with a pedal.
brianedw...@gmail.com
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>
Mines simple, the lead guitarist with a wireless pick up that sound
checks by the mixer.
0jun...@bellsouth.net
On 2007-01-31 tbmo...@peoplepc.com said:
>how about the guy who puts 6 or so instruments(6 string, 12 string
>acoustic guitars, couple of electrics,resonator guitar,mando and
>such), along with multiple amps, makes me DI/mic each one to thier
>own channel sound checks each into 4 seperate mixes to make sure al
>his bandmates can hear him
>uses up at least a hour of soundcheck with this bullshit
>then plays one god damn electric guitar all night
his spiritual twin brother. Make you want to make weird
noises not fit for polite radio.
I've been known to ask the muso that does this if he really
needs to have all htose checked just for his half hour warm
up gig for the headliner.
"HOw about just plug in the ax your'e going to play, we'll
do a line check on that one then move on."
WAs doing a benefit, American cancer society, local football
stadium. Local weekend warriors follow the karaoke singers,
group of about eight singing to prerecorded backing tracks
and doing their dance numbers. AT least they had their
wirelesses, their dj guy ran their set. tHEn comes on the
group with the bimbo, her two sons and hubby. Bimbo plays
midi backing tracks, her son that plays drums kinda wimps
away at them, other son just kinda looks like he's playing
his bass, but they spend all this time flogging sound check,
then most of what you hear out front is these shitty midi
arangements they bought off the rack somewhere.
She didn't even have her keyboard set up to properly
reproduce the midi arrangements but had the stupid thing in
whole mode instead of multitimbral most of the set. tHen
bitched cause she couldn't hear all the parts.
mcsteve
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>
> Here are a few that came to mind.
>
Just thought of more.
The person who asks you to turn down something in
their monitor, when it's not in their mix, to begin with.
The opposite side of the coin: A person complains
that they can't hear a certain voice or instrument in the
monitors, when they never asked for it, to begin with.
I'm a technician, not a mind reader!
The band that sets up ,and proceeds right into
practicing at full volume, while you're still trying to mic
and cable the stage.
And, why do drummers always smash the cymbals, at
the exact moment you're attempting to mic the toms?
--
Steve McQ
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"mcsteve" <mcstev...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:x8Uvh.2614$Tz4.838@trndny06...
> "clove" wrote:
>> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>>
>> Here are a few that came to mind.
>>
>
> Just thought of more.
>
person will sing or speak
george
Phildo
"clove" <mastercl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2007013005080716807-mastercloveclove@yahoocom...
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
Drummers that insist on playing while you are putting mics up on stage.
Rather silly to deafen the person who is about to try and make your band
sound good.
Normally I just go and sit down then wait until the drummer stops or one of
the band asking me why I've stopped working.
Phildo
TimPerry
the drummer that swings his vox mic against the back wall (when you aren't
looking) creating the perfect boundary mic.
rob1...@hotmail.com
Punters using the rack as a beer table., Guitarist that don't bring
picks, even had one who didn't bring a guitar and asked to borrow one
from the PA. Guitarists who don't bring an amp so share one with the
other guitarist then moan about the disparity in outfront levels. Bass
players who don't bring an amp. Boys who try to impress their
girlfriends by standing behind you and speak loudly about how he'd do
the mix "different". Performers who try to blame their crap set on the
sound. "Can I borrow your gaffer tape?, jack to jack?, plug board?
etc. Helpers who've been employed to give the PA crew a hand getting
the gear in due to excessive stairs and then disappear when the gear
need to get out. Promoters. Vocalists that whisper into mics.
Performers who spray beer all over the stage making the cables sticky
and smelly. Performers who use the amp rack as a beer table.
Performers who insist on using the monitor as a footrest. Performers
that abuse mic stands and mics. Multi vocalist bands that change their
stage places after a break. Halls that set the sound level limiter to
low. DJ's. Hall owners who expect you to break down a 10k rig and get
it out in 15 mins even though they witnessed the 2 hours it took you
to get the gear in and set it up. Musicians who let their kids on the
stage when you are breaking down, etc etc
Ahhhh, I feel better now.
Ty Ford
(in article <jb21s2pmop9gim8o2...@4ax.com>):
> Punters using the rack as a beer table., Guitarist that don't bring
> picks, even had one who didn't bring a guitar and asked to borrow one
> from the PA. Guitarists who don't bring an amp so share one with the
> other guitarist then moan about the disparity in outfront levels. Bass
> players who don't bring an amp. Boys who try to impress their
> girlfriends by standing behind you and speak loudly about how he'd do
> the mix "different". Performers who try to blame their crap set on the
> sound. "Can I borrow your gaffer tape?, jack to jack?, plug board?
> etc. Helpers who've been employed to give the PA crew a hand getting
> the gear in due to excessive stairs and then disappear when the gear
> need to get out. Promoters. Vocalists that whisper into mics.
> Performers who spray beer all over the stage making the cables sticky
> and smelly. Performers who use the amp rack as a beer table.
> Performers who insist on using the monitor as a footrest. Performers
> that abuse mic stands and mics. Multi vocalist bands that change their
> stage places after a break. Halls that set the sound level limiter to
> low. DJ's. Hall owners who expect you to break down a 10k rig and get
> it out in 15 mins even though they witnessed the 2 hours it took you
> to get the gear in and set it up. Musicians who let their kids on the
> stage when you are breaking down, etc etc
> Ahhhh, I feel better now.
Let the healing begin!
Regards,
Ty Ford
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU
Phildo
<0jun...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:llRvh.11550$qt....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> >being asked "do you know what all of those controls do?" I usually
> >respond with "yeah and I hope my accountant knows the Tax code"
> My response is usually more like "Yah I know what all those
> controls do now siddown and stfu."
Mine is "No, I'm just a plumber who got called to unblock the drains and
when I mentioned I had a good car stereo they asked me if I wouldn't mind
sitting here and doing sound........" >;-)
Phildo
Phildo
I did a talk for a jockey called Bob Champion today and for the last few
minutes we showed a DVD of him winning the Grand National (biggest horse
race in the UK). He stood at a lectern next to the screen for 40-odd minutes
talking then just showed the DVD to finish off. Just before we started I was
walking up to the booth when a passenger sitting right at the side of the
room (the stage is in front of the proscenium, sort of half in the round)
complained "When we sit here we cannot see the screen because of the big box
thing. Can you move it?". This was after she had sat there and watch me
focus several lights on the lectern to avoid bleed on to the screen. Plenty
of other seats in the lounge yet she expected everything to be moved because
she was dumb enough to sit somewhere where she couldn't see. I bet she sits
behind pillars for other shows and demands they rebuild the theatre because
she can't see the stage properly.
Jeez, sometimes you just want to offer them a free close-up underwater
inspection of the propellers going round !!! Plenty of shark around to
dispose of the evidence ;-)
Phildo
Phildo
<0jun...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mDTvh.12479$Cg1...@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>
> On 2007-01-31 tbmo...@peoplepc.com said:
> >how about the guy who puts 6 or so instruments(6 string, 12 string
> >acoustic guitars, couple of electrics,resonator guitar,mando and
> >such), along with multiple amps, makes me DI/mic each one to thier
> >own channel sound checks each into 4 seperate mixes to make sure al
> >his bandmates can hear him
> >uses up at least a hour of soundcheck with this bullshit
> >then plays one god damn electric guitar all night
> I may not have worked with the same one but I've worked with
> his spiritual twin brother. Make you want to make weird
> noises not fit for polite radio.
Had one guy at a gig back in London come on with a shitty acoustic then
berate me in front of the crowd saying he wanted a sound like the girl who
had just been on. I was very tempted to use the talkback mic through the PA
and say "To get a sound like hers you have to buy yourself a decent guitar,
put some strings on it that are less than 10 years old, make sure it has a
decent pick-up on it then, learn how to tune it and, most importantly of
all, LEARN TO PLAY THE BLOODY THING !!!!"
Later in the evening I came back from a trip to point Percy at the porcelain
only to find this guy at the mixing desk having decided he was now going to
do the sound. Had security eject him from the building and it took me
several minutes to put right the damage he had done to the board and house
EQs plus resetting all the compressors. House EQ was now a big smiley face.
Amazing how much can go wrong during one trip to the loo.
Phildo
Phildo
<brianedw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170212133....@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Just double his volume while he's out front then cut it by at least half
once he goes back on the stage.
Another thing I hate is SGS - Singing Girlfriend Syndrome and I use the word
"singing" in the loosest possible context. Amazing how many bands have their
own little Oko Nono. Ignore any of the band members girlfriends when they
ask you to turn their sweetheart up as well.
Phildo
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"Phildo" <Ph...@phildo.net> wrote in message
news:52bprcF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> <brianedw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1170212133....@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 30, 6:08 am, clove <masterclove-cl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>>>
>>
>> Mines simple, the lead guitarist with a wireless pick up that sound
>> checks by the mixer.
LOL
I do the same thing
as these guys don't care how the mix sounds, they just ike to listen to
themselves wank
george
mcsteve
> Mine is "No, I'm just a plumber who got called to unblock the drains and
> when I mentioned I had a good car stereo they asked me if I wouldn't mind
> sitting here and doing sound........" >;-)
>
Similar scenario........
Doing a club gig where FOH had to be right on the floor,
all too accessible to patrons. A guy walks over and points at
the board, asking: "What happens if I turn that knob all the way
up?"
My answer: "That doorman over there will toss your ass outta
here."
The guy replied: "Good answer".
--
Steve McQ
Bob Howes
"clove" <mastercl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2007013005080716807-mastercloveclove@yahoocom...
>
> some drummers not wanting to put a hole in the front head, but for the
> majority of drummers in modern music right now.. this just sounds like
> shit. Everybody wants the arguably "fake" sound of the kick drums you hear
> in modern rock, without any understanding of how to help achieve that
> sound. You have to have a hole for most club setups. (This does not apply
> for the bigger rigs where you can use multiple kick drum mics, etc..so
> don't get on my case mr van halen FOH.)
>
Actually, a drummer I work with from time to time uses an Arbiter "Flat" kit
which, obviously, can't have a hole. The first time I worked with him, I
crawled on hands and knees around the bass drum to find the "sweet spot" and
once I had this sorted I was very happy with the sound I got.
(Of course it helps that he's also a very good drummer.)
Bob
SoundBytes
> Let the healing begin!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
We do our own mixing, Sound Engineers/SoundGuys moan to much....
:-)
SoundBytes
Earl Grey
Chad Wahls
"clove" <mastercl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2007013005080716807-mastercloveclove@yahoocom...
>
(watts youra pushin)
the answer is always "enough"
People stating how your PA would rock their car or living room or wanting to
know the specs of MY home theatre....... "I don't watch TV"
I have noticed that every older scraggly bearded drunk guy has at some point
in life roadied for the Dead! BUT, I met a street bum begging for money
once, I bought him dinner at BK and he actually DID work with the Grateful
Dead and still knew every technical detail of the stage and PA evolution.
Best few bucks I ever spent on a kind old soul!
Keyboardists that can't make consistent patches level wise.
The phrase "oh a little bit of everything and more of...." (unless they are
wearing IEM's)
Club owners sizing up your PA and saying "you know we don't want it THAT
loud" Me saying "How Loud?" them pointing at the stacks still on wheels and
saying "That loud"..... Then who was the wise ass that booked a damn rock
band!? And BTW the volume DOES come off of "11" If I rented the right PA
for every gig we did then we'd all be broke, it's big but it DOES turn down,
and yes we will use every speaker, it's the way the rig works.
DJ's... I used to be one and still do it sometimes. Bar owners, hint.....
Show me the breaker box, where the shitters and dressing rooms are at, the
lady to get water from and make sure she KNOWS WHAT I LOOK LIKE. And give
your pompus DJ the night off, my PA will wax yours, we don't need your laser
jockey ATTEMPTING to prove otherwise... because I know where the breaker box
is at! This is a full professional production, you are paying for it, we
have it covered! We are here to make your life easier, enjoy it.
Bar patrons: I'm not THE DJ, I cannot submit requests to the band, and NO!
I WILL NOT PLAY A CD IF YOU GET IT OUT OF YOUR CAR!!! It's in your car for a
reason, to listen to on the way home. Solved by bringing an iPod only and
hiding an emergency CD player. "Sorry, I have no CD player!"
The phrase "we got you a table for your sound board thingy" I love clubs
that anticipate a band and are excited to see us (production) walk in, it
gives an "everything is going to be cool" feeling the first second. So I
usually have to say that my table is already unloaded and I'll use that if
you don' mind, it's already scratched up. While thinking "and it's larger
than a swingers joint cocktail table"
Did I mention former "Dead" roadies? We call the "pallbearers" around here.
The illeteracy of "NO DRINKS HERE, THIS MEANS YOU!" but yet the supreme
literacy of reading my set list from 25' away and wanting "that song next"
"Can you watch my coat?"
"Can you watch my purse?"
"Can I set my phone here? I really gotta go dance!"
The sight of a band members Significant other approaching. Now they don't
bug me but since we are all "Friends" they have to stand RIGHT FARKING NEXT
TO ME. I point to gain control 1 and the edge of the FX rack and say "I
have to get from here to here really fast at times, it's never pretty to be
in the way" like it would be not so pretty to be attached at the hip of
your 6'8" husband jumping around on stage with the vertical leap like a damn
grasshopper!
"Hi, Do you remember me?" ......hell no Sometimes I don't remember my own
name, oh yeah, it's Check One Two Can I get A Tad More Of Me.
And the pre mentioned, "what would happen if I did this" While mocking
frantic knob twiddling about 1-2 feet above the surface of my console. And
my answer is pretty much the same as everyone elses depending on the size of
the character doing the twiddling, if they have a beer in their hand it gets
tossed in the trash.
Also the famous "do you really know what all those knobs do": Yep "How did
you learn all that" : I had to have something to do during anger management
rehab!
This thread has inpired me to shake hands with every member of my current
band and say "thank you" for making my life easier than many HE's have it
now. They truly are a great bunch to work for.
Chad
Todd H.
> People stating how your PA would rock their car or living room or wanting to
> know the specs of MY home theatre....... "I don't watch TV"
Related:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | http://myspace.com/mytriplethreatband
Chad Wahls
"Todd H." <bmi...@toddh.net> wrote in message
news:84r6tbo...@ripco.com...
> "Chad Wahls" <cwa...@uiuc.edu> writes:
>
>> People stating how your PA would rock their car or living room or wanting
>> to
>> know the specs of MY home theatre....... "I don't watch TV"
>
> Related:
> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694
>
>
Hehe no shit :) Good One!
I DO watch a tad but very little, I have a Mythbusters addiction. but
that's about it, I have the tendency to fall asleep in front of the TV
though at times :) It's just kind of the way i was brought up I guess, I'm
a tinkerer so I spend a lot of time in the shop or goofing off with my kid.
Or maybe it's the ADD :)
Chad
Mike Dobony
> "clove" wrote:
>> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>>
>> Here are a few that came to mind.
>>
>
> Guitarists who don't bring their own cable,
> strap, picks, etc. Most commonly, acoustic
> players.
>
> Yo, sport...You own a guitar with a pickup in it,
> you should have your own damn cable.
>
> Drummers who want their whole kit, plus the entire
> band, in their monitor mix. Might as well set up out
> on the floor, and listen to the mains.
>
>
> My other pet peeve is people on usenet who cannot
> grasp the concept of snipping.
> (see first reply in this thread)
Then we don't have a list, but several parts of a list.
Mike Dobony
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>
> Here are a few that came to mind.
>
> 1. Improper lead vocal mic technique, specifically the now classic
> "thumb over the diaphram cause I look so hard making a fist on the mic"
> technique that is so admired in all forms of scremo to hip hop. That's
> gotta be number one...you know it..you all know it.
>
> 2. No sound hole in the front bass drum head. Ok..well I can understand
> some drummers not wanting to put a hole in the front head, but for the
> majority of drummers in modern music right now.. this just sounds like
> shit. Everybody wants the arguably "fake" sound of the kick drums you
> hear in modern rock, without any understanding of how to help achieve
> that sound. You have to have a hole for most club setups. (This does
> not apply for the bigger rigs where you can use multiple kick drum
> mics, etc..so don't get on my case mr van halen FOH.)
>
> 3. Bass player telling me he has a Direct Out on his bass rig.
> Nah..really? Well FMR..when did they start doing that?? O.k..this is
> really not that big a deal.. just annoying after YEARS of hearing it
> night after night.
>
> 4. MUSICIANS and their friends MOVING THE MICROPHONES WITHOUT ASKING
> ANYBODY FIRST....Like you know.. THE SOUNDGUY!! Same goes for monitors.
> I once had a guy come in..setup his guitar rig..then proceed to move
> one of my monitors about 3-4ft from it's original location. No asking..
> just did it. ..So when his back was turned to pay attention to
> something else he was working.. I moved his guitar rig to the other
> side of the stage. When he was confused by the change in his rigs
> location..and went to get it.. I moved my monitor back. THIS HAPPENED
> TWICE over before the inevitable "hey man..WTF do you think you are
> doing with my guitar rig" vs my "hey a-hole, WTF do you think you are
> doing with my monitors?" discussion was had. Leave stuff that is not
> yours alone! Your friends are not qualified to do much more than buy
> you beers, and I have to answer for the equipment and pay to replace
> it. You handle your stuff..the sound guy will handle their own.
>
> 5. Asking the crowd if it "sounds good out there" after the first song.
> Shut up and play and let me worry about what the "sound" is.. Trust
> me.. I am more tuned into my room than you will ever be.
>
> I will wrap up my pet peeves with this
>
> 6. Remember the sound guys NAME if he gives it to you. Nobody wants to
> hear.."Hey, Mr. Soundman.. or Mr. Soundguy" from the stage anymore. If
> you have been given a name for your sound person.. respect it enough to
> use it! You will get a much better reaction from the soundguy...really.
> Try it sometime. I stop listening at "Mister..Sou.." ! Done.. not
> going to help out much if I don't think you need it. You ask me by my
> name.. well then everything is really personal and friendly. Sound guys
> do not have to be viewed as postal workers. (No offense to the
> hardworking postal workers of the world) Rock and Roll is supposed to
> be fun. Really! Lighten up folks.
>
> Hpe this gets the ball rolling!
>
> I can think of a ton more.. but I don't want to take up all the good ones left.
>
> Cheers!
Guitar amps louder than the mains and the guitarist then complaining about
the feedback. Like DUH!!!!!!!!!!!
"Needing" a full mix in the monitor.
What about the opposite of a peeve? How about some pet delights?
Someone who actually knows how to use a mic.
Someone who knows how to use a monitor.
Someone who treats the "soundguy" as a full member of the band.
A "soundguy" who knows what he or she is doing and doesn't have to resort
to insulting the customer (band) because they don't know how to use the
equipment (yea, you know who you are. How did you get a job on that
ship?).
A group that gets there early and helps with the soundcheck.
Mike D.
ty
ty
Ron(UK)
> Older woman complaining about how she cant understand the vocals.
Hey I had that a few weeks ago, Old biddy comes up, most apologetic,
saying shes sorry but she can`t understand a word of the female singer.
Says I "she`s singing in Welsh"
Says she " she doesn't look Welsh"!
The mind boggles
Ron(UK)
SoundBytes
JOB, LIVE WITH IT, SAD SODS
:-)
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"SoundBytes" <sound...@here.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0Cowh.6731$fy5....@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> STILL MOANING ABOUT NOTHING I SEE....... MOVE ON AND GET OVER IT, ITS YOUR
> JOB, LIVE WITH IT, SAD SODS
I feel sorry for you,shouting at us for not loving being baby sitters for
ignorant egotistical pricks
of course we rise up to any chalenge , doesn't means we have to feel good
about dealing with musos(whos job it is to KNOW how to use a mic, bring a
cable, tune thier drums, give useful direction for thier monitor
mix, )whatever
babysitters get to play with kids and enjoy thier innocent playfuness but
they also have to change diapers
and when asked I bet changing diapers is a "pet peeve" for babysitters
if musos came to thier jobs ON time , prepared and able to use the
technology required for thier job there would be a lot fewer pet peeves from
sound guys
george
>
> :-)
>
AustinMN
> STILL MOANING ABOUT NOTHING I SEE....... MOVE ON AND GET OVER IT, ITS YOUR
> JOB, LIVE WITH IT, SAD SODS
At least we're not SHOUTING about it. Lower your voice.
> :-)
8-)
Austin
andre...@iinet.net.au
"Earl Grey" <e...@t.pot> wrote in message news:45bff51c$1...@clear.net.nz...
>
>>
>> 2. No sound hole in the front bass drum head. Ok..well I can understand
>> some drummers not wanting to put a hole in the front head, but for the
>> majority of drummers in modern music right now.. this just sounds like
>> shit. Everybody wants the arguably "fake" sound of the kick drums you
>> hear in modern rock, without any understanding of how to help achieve
>> that sound. You have to have a hole for most club setups. (This does not
>> apply for the bigger rigs where you can use multiple kick drum mics,
>> etc..so don't get on my case mr van halen FOH.)
>
> find a mic that works for you on the beater side. Its just another drum, a
> tom played with a pedal.
Make sure you keep some oil handy too for the squeaky pedal,
and gate for all the 'under the drum kit noise'
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
<andre...@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:45c2a271$0$6130$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
or a spare trap kit for the drummer(at least 1 a year) who shows up without
his drums
truth is stranger than fiction
I don't make this stuff up
george
>
>
andre...@iinet.net.au
amp..
and they have earplugs in...
Or ... "can I get a bit more level in my monitor? ..
check,, check..
YUP! THats IT!
...but you havn't found his send yet...
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
<andre...@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:45c2a870$0$6092$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
sad but true story
I was doing a national touring straight edge band
in a smallish college multi porpouse room
2 guitars with full stacks jcm900 head and the bass player had two ampeg
8x10 rigs
all the stacks went all the way wall to wall stage r/sl
the drummer was completly hidden by the stacks
we were hitting 122dB at mix
the guitarist throws down his guitar and screams into the mic
HEY I NEED SOME FUCKING GUITAR IN MY WEDGE
the "wedge" was a 12x1 community xlt41e
I still wonder what he was hearing from his 8 x12 speakers not 2 feet behind
him that he woud need me to destroya monitor to try to get it to compete
with the stacks and msl3a FoH
needess to say, I just told him it was as loud as it could get and he would
either play or not play but there was "no more" to give him from the wedge
george
>
Phildo
<tbmo...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:yXxwh.17414$pQ3....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> 2 guitars with full stacks jcm900 head and the bass player had two ampeg
> 8x10 rigs
> all the stacks went all the way wall to wall stage r/sl
> the drummer was completly hidden by the stacks
> we were hitting 122dB at mix
> the guitarist throws down his guitar and screams into the mic
> HEY I NEED SOME FUCKING GUITAR IN MY WEDGE
Dale Bozzio and Missing Persons played at the Whiskey when I was house guy
there. The week before we had Testament in with their walls of stacks yet MP
ran louder than they did. My ears were hurting until the plugs went in but
she still allowed her kids to run around in the venue with no hearing
protection whatsoever.
Dale insisted on using her own Audix mic which she insisted had a built in
compressor so it was a case of smile, nod and agree with her. She demanded
no compression on her voice so I went in to the dynamics (was an old recall
board so had dynamics on every channel) then disabled any dynamic processing
on her vocal channel. We didn't have any comps for the monitors so there was
none on there. During the soundcheck she went nuts claiming she could hear
compression on her vocals and that she didn't want any compression. I
explained to her that there was no compression on the vocals but that they
were so loud the system limiters were kicking in. She demanded that I take
the limiters off the system and when I refused she pulled the show. Her
manager and FOH guy went out to talk to her and eventually she was persuaded
to do the show. This was supposed to be a "professional" act.
Phildo
michael gaster
news:pfdur4vmlprt$.smeko74lee2i$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> "Needing" a full mix in the monitor.
>
ok now as an engineer for 16+ years I have come to the conclusion that if
that's what the musician "needs" that's what he/she *needs* to find comfort
in playing with the other musicians, now obviously in small environments
this can easily get out of hand, which is why I have often found sometimes a
walk up on stage and listening to what is already being heard without
monitors from that persons perspective and do a balance between with maybe
some presence additions so that musician can get his/her mix of everything
can be most helpful. Just as we cant read the minds of the musician to know
what they *wanted* to begin with in their mix we cant read their minds to
determine what they "need" to find comfort and be able to queue for their
parts be it 2 things or everything... so when a musician asks for HH in
their mix don't roll your eyes it could be the thing that brings together a
strong connection between musicians and their music.
--
Michael Gaster
Gaster Engineering
mcsteve
> when a musician asks for HH in
> their mix don't roll your eyes it could be the thing that brings together a
> strong connection between musicians and their music.
>
Really common for reggae acts to request HH in the wedges.
--
Steve McQ
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"mcsteve" <mcstev...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:FELwh.27$Yl3.2@trndny09...
I have a irish band that works that way
I just patch thier inears(one transmitter to 6 recievers) to the mono send
of my desk
they are very happy with what I do
george
Karl Winkler
> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>
> Here are a few that came to mind.
>
There have already been versions of some of my faves here, such as the
old farts sitting right in front of the stack while we're doing setup.
I go down there and gently inform them that they are sitting in front
of the speaker and it might get a tad loud when the show starts, and
that there are plenty of other places to sit. 30 minutes later, the
show has started, the house is full, and there's nowhere else to sit.
So they get up, holding their ears, walk past me shooting dirty looks,
and leave. This exact thing happened to me several times in different
places. Seeing that it has happened to others helps a little with my
therapy.
What about the old fart that sits down near the console, then turns
around and says "is that thing going to make a loud noise?" My fantasy
reply is to reach under the console, pull out a double-barreled
shotgun and say "This thing? Yeah, it might make a loud noise."
Or how about after 2 hours of setup, line check, debugging, sound
check, EQing, getting rid of hums and buzzes and crackles, etc. and
now it is 30 seconds before curtain time, the Vidiot comes up and asks
to get a feed for his camera? I always wanted to have a box that did
nothing but output fart sounds and has an XLR male, a 1/4 TRS and an
RCA female jacks on it, powered by a 9V.
Or how about (when mixing a jazz band) the old codger who comes up and
says "can you turn down the trumpets? They're awful loud" then I have
to explain that there are no microphones anywhere near the trumpets,
so perhaps during intermission, you can talk to the section leader or
maybe the bandleader and ask them to play softer.
Speaking of trumpet players, how about the guy who INSISTS that he has
to be miked, even if I'm only doing 1 mic for every two trumpets and 1
mic for every two trombone players (because it sounds better a tad off
axis, don't ya know?) or even better, when there are no mics on the
brass at all (see above). Same for guitar players with a 100W Marshall
full stack. For gawd's sake no one can hear anything but you and the
drums anyway! In those cases, I have to decide between letting them
know that their request is unreasonable, or just sticking a mic there
with a cable on it (not plugged into the stage box) and therefore
providing a valuable service (all in the psychology).
Or how about the house sound guy who says "there's no way to get sound
up to the balcony, so you should just work on getting the floor good".
When I asked about those poor suckers that will inevitably be in the
balcony, he says "they're used to it". He was pretty shocked to find
out that I set the stacks up to cover the balcony, and how well it
worked. Didn't hurt that it was Meyer MSL3s back in the day...
And then there was the house sound guy that noticed I had some omni
mics on the stage, and said "you can't get away with using omni mics,
you'll have to use condensers".
Karl Winkler
http://www.lectrosonics.com
http://www.karlwinkler.com
Ron(UK)
I always wanted to have a box that did
> nothing but output fart sounds and has an XLR male, a 1/4 TRS and an
> RCA female jacks on it, powered by a 9V.
I think Alesis make that dont they?
Ron(UK)
AustinMN
It's called a Microverb II, IIRC. There may be other versions.
Austin
clove
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:08:08 GMT, clove <mastercl...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Rock and Roll is supposed to be fun. Really! Lighten up folks.
>
> Me thinks you need to take your own advice there, mister. Man, I'd
> hate to be playing in YOUR club. You sound like you have a chip on
> your shoulder the size of Cleveland and it's aimed at all musicans.
> Sheesh... (I work on both sides of the mic, BTW)
>
> Paul
actually.. I toured as a signed artist to a major label for over a
decade. I know what I am talking about..and I know that people in
general, make rock and roll shows more stressfull and frantic then it
has to be. I have run sound for literally over 10 thousand bands, Pro
and Amatuer, in the last 10 years. I have run just about every possible
variation of setups, just about all levels of PA setups from tiny
acoustic setups to stadium sized rigs..I have even miked up a tap dance
platform for a singer to perform on while singing with a rock band. I
don't have a bad attitude, I mostly think it is amusing. But pet peeves
do develop, and these are some of them that annoy me right now, and I
posted to commiserate with other soundguys. Doesn't mean I am a cranky
asshole jerk to the people that perform at the various clubs and
facilities I have run sound at. If I was, I wouldn't be working. I am
actually probably one of the most laid back sound guys you have ever
met. I don't get flustered or upset in shows. I have learned to pick my
battles very sparingly. Perhaps in posting I come off as a hard ass or
something. I dunno. Too many years of experience on the belt, perhaps.
Been around long enough to not feel the love as much, cause it is not
new anymore..by a long shot. But other than that.. I think I have a
good sense of humor about the whole mess. Peeves are just that..peeves.
I don't make it a habit to shoot the band every night.
clove
> The system/house guy telling me I don't need overheads; my response is
> usually "those aren't cymbal mics"
You really using them in the capacity of room mics?? HA! I call
bullshit on that.
>
> The house guy/monitor guy who rolls his eyes when I ask him to flatten
> the graph on a mix left from before, knowing that I just put up my mic
> kit and don't use 57's and 58's like he does.
Yep, and having toured for years on both sides of the mic..I learned
that I don't necessarily know better than everybody else before I turn
up anything how to graph the system. I do it by listening after I bring
up sound..not looking at the graph visually. Maybe the house guy knows
the problematic frequencies in his mix better than you do??..you who
just walked in...cause he is there every night. Arrogant statement on
your part. Rethink it through.
>
> the artists who absolutely has to have ______ but doesn't travel with it.
That's what you were hired for..;-) Buy it, expense it.
>
> being asked "do you know what all of those controls do?" I usually
> respond with "yeah and I hope my accountant knows the Tax code"
?? I can understand somebody wondering if you know what all those
controls do based upon the crap you posted up above.
>
> hearing anyone say "they don't need all of that" my thought is "look
> here dip shit are you making the music?"
I can tell you from not seeing your band or knowing anthing about you..
you don't need all that. True engineers make what they have to work
with, work..others just bitch and complain.
>
> hearing stage hands talkabout overtime on late nights, Sundays, and
> holidays -its the fucking entertainment industry, if we went to work
> when everyone else was at work there wouldn't be a god damn person in
> the audience to pay you regular time dip shit!
I agree with you on this one point only.. but then again there are the unions..
clove
> "clove" wrote:
>> Just for fun. Let's see how long the list can get.
>>
>> Here are a few that came to mind.
>>
>
> Just thought of more.
>
> The person who asks you to turn down something in
> their monitor, when it's not in their mix, to begin with.
>
> The opposite side of the coin: A person complains
> that they can't hear a certain voice or instrument in the
> monitors, when they never asked for it, to begin with.
> I'm a technician, not a mind reader!
>
> The band that sets up ,and proceeds right into
> practicing at full volume, while you're still trying to mic
> and cable the stage.
>
> And, why do drummers always smash the cymbals, at
> the exact moment you're attempting to mic the toms?
this got close.. I figured everybody has dealt with the "I couldn't
hear anything in my mix" excuse from the lamest musician in the
band...as a cop out for the fact that he/she sucked that night, BUT
NEVER ASKED FOR ANYTHING TO BE CHANGED. One of the peeves I saved.
Just as a note in this thread, not aimed at mcstevex..Hey, apparently
some here take this as a very negative thread. People attacking me for
being "whiny" or needing to "buck up". I am not here for any advice. I
know what I am doing. I was just mentioning a few peeves to get what I
thought would be a humourous bitch thread going. So save you advice..
don't need it. Got a peeve about running sound..share it. I guarantee I
can correct just about any of you before you can correct me.
clove
>>
>> Let the healing begin!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ty Ford
>>
>
> We do our own mixing, Sound Engineers/SoundGuys moan to much....
>
>
> :-)
>
> SoundBytes
You must be in Kings X..:-)
clove
in all fairness.. I completely agree with gaster on this. I don't care
what people want in their monitors. They can have whatever mix they
want and I will make it work.
clove
LOL!
Drummers with earplugs who complain..well anybody onstage that wears
earplugs but then complains they cannot hear.
clove
ever hear of a band called Jucifer? Same thing.. they have a
WALL..literally of amps that the girl plays a bass thru with
distortion. Last time I worked with them..there were 10 bass cabs, and
11 guitar cabs..all run in series..all turned up to "11".. the
shhhhhhhh..static alone was probaly sitting at about 105 db. But I had
to mic 2 very specific speakers and have them in the wedge. And she
sang whispery..yeah.. the sound level was 128db without the P.A. on ..
it was the loudest show I have ever been at. It sucked..btw..everyone
left because it was too loud. It took 2 and a half hours to load in..
they played for 30 min.. and 2 and a half hours for them to load out.
One of the more unusual gigs I have had.
mcsteve
> I guarantee I can correct just about any of you before you can correct me.
>
Pretty arrogant, I'd say.
Let's see......
You claim you've mixed for 10,000 plus bands, in the last ten
years. That works out to roughly 2.7 bands per night, every night,
for ten years straight. I'm calling bullshit on that claim.
I worked with a guy like you, this Summer. Five years experience,
thought he knew everything.
You assume an awful lot, with your statement above, Mr "Ten Years".
Some of us here have been doing this work 4 times as long. Long before you
were born, no doubt.
--
Steve McQ
steve_goo...@sjwhite.plus.com
> Most of the time they want to "know" what is going out to the house
That's something that always intrigues me. Many times I'll hear my
band mates say that the band sounded really great tonight ... or not
as good as normal ... but they utterly fail to realise that they have
*no* idea how it sounded to the audience.
My favourite peeve is the band member who spends the whole of the
setup time chatting with his / her mates and then gives me agro after
the first song because their monitor doesn't sound right!
> I have a irish band that works that way
> I just patch thier inears(one transmitter to 6 recievers) to the mono send
> of my desk
This is how I now like to work. The IEMs give me a much clearer idea
of how the instruments are balanced.
I've been the drummer asking for a bit of everything in my monitor ...
but that's only when I can't hear the rest of the band clearly. As a
musician I want to hear myself in context. For a start, I might be
taking cues from anyone and everyone else in the band. But even if I'm
not, I want to be able to hear how everyone else in the band is
playing so I can adapt what I'm doing to get the band to sound the
best it can. I can't do that if all I've got is the bass guitar and
vocals.
If there's a bunch of backline pointing in my direction I won't want
the stuff I can already hear. And I certainly don't want the whole of
my kit in the monitors.
I can understand why "a bit of everyone else in the monitors" is a
pain for the engineer ... and I can imagine that it can be indicative
of a muso who doesn't actually know what they way ... but in my case
it's because I want to hear everything else because that's how I know
my playing is always complementing the sound of the band and how I can
adapt what I'm doing to help the rest of the band play better.
Cheers,
Steve W
Frisco
wrote:
Glad to hear... that was a much more sane post than the first one.
Sorry to say, but you did sound like a cranky asshole jerk. All is
forgiven, let's be friends?
Paul
Frisco
wrote:
Sorry, but any rock musician who plays without hearing protection is
just plain ignorant. I wear -15dB filters and can hear my monitor and
instrument just fine thank you very much.
Paul
Todd H.
> Sorry, but any rock musician who plays without hearing protection is
> just plain ignorant. I wear -15dB filters and can hear my monitor and
> instrument just fine thank you very much.
Yup. I have a page on it as well, fwiw:
Now of course musicians have sound guy pet peeves too. Among them for
me are the "sound guy who can't fuggin hear anymore because he's
soaking up all his SPL 100% of the time for the last 3-20 years."
If for no other reason, you have to wear them to protect your own ears
against the stage volume of your bandmates who now have to turn up to
get the same effect they had 10 years ago because their accuity curve
looks like a bomb went off on it.
Thankfully not all sound guys are like this though. The good ones
are worth their weight in gold.
Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | http://myspace.com/mytriplethreatband
AustinMN
> On 2007-01-30 09:26:46 -0600, Frisco <pfr...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Rock and Roll is supposed to be fun. Really! Lighten up folks.
>
> > Me thinks you need to take your own advice there, mister. Man, I'd
> > hate to be playing in YOUR club. You sound like you have a chip on
> > your shoulder the size of Cleveland and it's aimed at all musicans.
> > Sheesh... (I work on both sides of the mic, BTW)
>
> > Paul
>
> actually.. I toured as a signed artist to a major label for over a
> decade. I know what I am talking about..and I know that people in
> general, make rock and roll shows more stressfull and frantic then it
> has to be. I have run sound for literally over 10 thousand bands, Pro
> and Amatuer, in the last 10 years.
And you either consider us stupid or are just a very poor liar.
That's 20 bands a week...every week...for ten years...sure you have.
Austin
AustinMN
> Just as a note in this thread, not aimed at mcstevex..Hey, apparently
> some here take this as a very negative thread. People attacking me for
> being "whiny" or needing to "buck up". I am not here for any advice. I
> know what I am doing. I was just mentioning a few peeves to get what I
> thought would be a humourous bitch thread going. So save you advice..
> don't need it. Got a peeve about running sound..share it. I guarantee I
> can correct just about any of you before you can correct me.
Looks like we have a new troll, folks, and this one has an ego the
size of the Titanic...
Austin
Gert Wiersema
> That's 20 bands a week...every week...for ten years...sure you have.
Or 10 bands a week, 20 years. Two per night. Mondays and tuesdays off.
Sounds like a "job".. :)
grt
AustinMN
At the risk of sounding like P.A., did you read his whole sentence?
It said "I have run sound for literally over 10 thousand bands, Pro
and Amatuer, in the last 10 years."
Don't miss the last five words, there.
Austin
Ron(UK)
<snip>
Could Mr Tiglath and Mr Aleward move along a little there, make room
for the new fella. :)
Ron(UK)
Tim Scott
"AustinMN" <tacoo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170484087.3...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In comparison to today's cruise ships, Titanic was actually quite small.
Tim Scott
"Frisco" <pfr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9828s2lppsa00e65p...@4ax.com...
If there is a need to wear earplugs, then either they personally are playing
too loud, or other members of the band are.
Frisco
Wrong... playing drums in a rock-type band (even as quiet as you can)
still deserves ear protection. And guess what, everyone's standing
right next to the drums usually. Ear protection is a mandatory and
very neccessary item on any (rock) musician's list or I can pretty
much guarantee they'll have hearing problems down the road. I wear my
filters even if I'm just practicing on the kit.
Now if we're talking about those foam plugs that you roll between your
fingers and insert them (free on many job-sites in manufacturing),
that turn the sound into absolute mud - then yeah, you've pretty much
turned off your hearing with those. <doh!>
Paul
Frisco
>Frisco <pfr...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Sorry, but any rock musician who plays without hearing protection is
>> just plain ignorant. I wear -15dB filters and can hear my monitor and
>> instrument just fine thank you very much.
>
>Yup. I have a page on it as well, fwiw:
>
> http://toddh.net/music/ear/
>
>Now of course musicians have sound guy pet peeves too. Among them for
>me are the "sound guy who can't fuggin hear anymore because he's
>soaking up all his SPL 100% of the time for the last 3-20 years."
>
>If for no other reason, you have to wear them to protect your own ears
>against the stage volume of your bandmates who now have to turn up to
>get the same effect they had 10 years ago because their accuity curve
>looks like a bomb went off on it.
>
>Thankfully not all sound guys are like this though. The good ones
>are worth their weight in gold.
>
Awesome page... good reading! I'll be sharing this with students and
band-mates alike!
Paul
Sammy
> in all fairness.. I completely agree with gaster on this. I don't care
> what people want in their monitors. They can have whatever mix they want
> and I will make it work.
Yup, crank up the choir overheads in their monitors...
Phildo
"Karl Winkler" <karlwi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170447984.7...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Speaking of trumpet players, how about the guy who INSISTS that he has
> to be miked, even if I'm only doing 1 mic for every two trumpets and 1
> mic for every two trombone players (because it sounds better a tad off
> axis, don't ya know?) or even better, when there are no mics on the
> brass at all (see above).
The trumpet player on here is a nightmare. He will ask for changes in his
monitors several times during a show and is convinced I am changing them
just to annoy him. I tried to explain that if the keyboard player (for
example) turns up his keyboard then it will get louder in his monitors.
Sadly this trumpet player cannot grasp this concept and expects me to keep
the levels in his monitor constant so is now told the monitor mix he gets in
rehearsal is what he will get for the show and any requests for changes once
rehearsal is over will be ignored. We are simply too busy to have the stage
manager dragged away just so this twat can ask to get a tiny bit more of
himself in his monitor which the SM then has to relay back to me via the
cans when I am very busy with mic cues etc.
> And then there was the house sound guy that noticed I had some omni
> mics on the stage, and said "you can't get away with using omni mics,
> you'll have to use condensers".
I used to work in a club in LA called Luna Park and JP the owner told me "we
do not DI at luna park".
Phildo
Phildo
"clove" <mastercl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2007020219020311272-mastercloveclove@yahoocom...
> I guarantee I can correct just about any of you before you can correct me.
Oh dear, we have an Arny-size ego on the group.
You haven't been here for very long have you?
Phildo
Phildo
> That's 20 bands a week...every week...for ten years...sure you have.
Sounds like a lot but I could easily do 20 bands a week when I worked at the
Whiskey. OK, every week for 10 years is pushing it a bit but I can see where
he's coming from.
Phildo
Mike Dobony
> "Mike Dobony" <sw...@notasarian-host.net> wrote in message
> news:pfdur4vmlprt$.smeko74lee2i$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>
>> "Needing" a full mix in the monitor.
>>
>> Mike D.
>
> ok now as an engineer for 16+ years I have come to the conclusion that if
> that's what the musician "needs" that's what he/she *needs* to find comfort
> in playing with the other musicians, now obviously in small environments
> this can easily get out of hand, which is why I have often found sometimes a
> walk up on stage and listening to what is already being heard without
> monitors from that persons perspective and do a balance between with maybe
> some presence additions so that musician can get his/her mix of everything
> can be most helpful. Just as we cant read the minds of the musician to know
> what they *wanted* to begin with in their mix we cant read their minds to
> determine what they "need" to find comfort and be able to queue for their
> parts be it 2 things or everything... so when a musician asks for HH in
> their mix don't roll your eyes it could be the thing that brings together a
> strong connection between musicians and their music.
They want it, they get it. Then fight with feedback and stage volume.
However, there are few groups that "need" everything. A quartet that takes
turns with solo parts or intricate harmonies needs a full mix. Outside of
this you rarely "need" a full mix except for insecure artists.
Mike D.
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
I can put ful mix in a monitor with no feedback issues
but then I know what I am doing, unlike you
george
AustinMN
<timscot...@nospamplease.spamarrest.com> wrote:
> "AustinMN" <tacooper...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Yes, but the intended implication was that the Titanic sank, and many
feel that arrogance was a contributing factor.
Austin
SoundBytes
You’re still moaning? You even moaned about my use of Capitals to get
a message across, wow I have met some moaning baby musicians before but boy
you sound guys take the biscuit.
Now let me make myself clear, most bands require a sound engineer/sound guy
or whatever, you are more than an essential part of any band in most cases,
and you are and should be classed as probably THE most essential part of a
band, WHY???
Because you make premadonas sound good.
you put up with some of THE most self opinionated moaning, whining wankers
on this planet, but the best sound guys just get on with it, they give us
musicians exactly what we want (so we think) and still we sound good.
If we sound good you are the talk of the dressing room and if we have had a
drunken bad night and sound shit then it’s your fault too, live with it and
move on, you know your place and it’s at the helm, you know, we know it,
forget it and move on.
~"I know guitarists who want more through his monitor" who doesn't? You guys
put it right and we sound the best.
As I said we don't use a sound engineer but if needed one we would, but with
just 12 of us, we can sort it on stage.
So I am sorry if I upset some of you by using CAPITALS, but there is more in
the world to worry about than a few sad, self possessed musicians, you do a
great job. NOW SHUT THE F**K UP,
SoundBytes
Earl Grey
.
>
> They want it, they get it. Then fight with feedback and stage volume.
> However, there are few groups that "need" everything. A quartet that takes
> turns with solo parts or intricate harmonies needs a full mix. Outside of
> this you rarely "need" a full mix except for insecure artists.
>
> Mike D.
That would be in your limited experience.
The job of a pro sound engineer is to elicit the best performance from
the artist and to present it it the audience, whatever it takes.
On a small stage where the other sources are audible and balanced, an
artist may only need their own vocal or instrument.
With in ear monitors, or on a large stage or in a pit or on upstage
risers, they may need a full mix, or split sends that sum to a full mix.
0jun...@bellsouth.net
On 2007-02-02 mastercl...@yahoo.com said:
>> Or ... "can I get a bit more level in my monitor? ..
>> check,, check..
>> YUP! THats IT!
>> ...but you havn't found his send yet...
>LOL!
to eq his vocal channel, I'm not even doing monitors but
foh. WE don't even have monitors going yet!!! Meanwhile
doofus weekend warrior's saying, "just a bit more mids, yah
yah that's it!"
Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.
YOu can suck out the frequency, but you can't frequency
out the suck.
Sammy
> If we sound good you are the talk of the dressing room
Yeah right...
> and if we have had a
> drunken bad night and sound shit then it’s your fault too
That's more like reality.
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"SoundBytes" <sound...@here.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Be7xh.86568$HV6....@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
> Hi girls
>
> You're still moaning?
you want to read moaning?
why not start you own thrrad in some muso forum where all the litte kiddies
will flock to you with thier
"why I hate sound guys" bullshit
If every musician dropped off the face of the earth I would still be doing
sound, profitably
reinforcing musicians is ony maybe 30% of my work
in fact "Most " work with musicians is amoung the lowest paying work a sound
guy can do
george
0jun...@bellsouth.net
On 2007-02-04 tbmo...@peoplepc.com said:
>If every musician dropped off the face of the earth I would still
>be doing sound, profitably
>reinforcing musicians is ony maybe 30% of my work
>in fact "Most " work with musicians is amoung the lowest paying
>work a sound guy can do
Notice that although many of these gripes you hear are
related to musos not being properly prepared, all have to do
with the folks who engage us not being properly
prepared/informed but expecting us to have whatever's needed
to make the presentation/performance come off.
for example: the convention I show up at where all of a sudden
I'm told we're going to have a speaker present by telephone.
Just so happened I knew whereto get the requisite equipment,
and could send a friendly taxicab driver to pick it up.
We make it happen, no matter how unprepared/uninformed the
promoters or musos are.
I suppose you don't think emergency room personnel and
paramedics shouldn't have pet peeves about the folks they
serve either.
we bitch to each other because often the promoters/musos
wouldn'tunderstand what we're talking about. DOn't care to
listen? TUne out, ain't no skin off our noses.
Btw for the example i gave above, after that every year when
I did this group's convention proper equipment for getting
the signal from the telephone line to the sr system was part
of my bag of tricks I carried, just because. AS a sound guy
my gig is to make sure your presentation is heard
adequately and assisting you to do waht you do without
having to worry about the small details. Even if you expect
the impossible I'm going to do my damnedest to try to get
you what you need to perform or present. even with my best
eforts however I can't repeal the laws of physics, and I
shouldn't be expected to have the basics you need to do
whatveer it is you're supposed to. YOur failure to properly
advance the show by providing me with an input list and
stage plot isn't my fault. IF you provided them I'm going
to make sure monitors are placed to allow you to hear
comfortably what you need. I'm going to know how many di
boxes you need. If you properly advanced the show you also
know how to find the venue and there's no excuse for being
late and then bitching because you didn't even get a proper
line check.
Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.
Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for
dinner. Liberty is when the sheep has his own gun.
SoundBytes
I try to be nice and you jump in well here we go...
> why not start you own thrrad in some muso forum where all the litte
> kiddies will flock to you with thier
> "why I hate sound guys" bullshit
I haven't once said I hate soundguys, and most soundguys can spell unlike
your sad self you anal retentive twat.
>
> If every musician dropped off the face of the earth I would still be doing
> sound, profitably
The world is not flat and muso's will not fall of the face of it, infact if
they did what the hell would you do with your sound enforcement gear?
Disco's? oh no you can't have any music at all because you got rid of the
music, but just incase then go for it and have fun.
> reinforcing musicians is ony maybe 30% of my work
Got to give you that one, there is more to a sound engineers life than
making bands load and full, you do have a great deal more work to do than
just bands.
> in fact "Most " work with musicians is amoung the lowest paying work a
> sound guy can do
You need to put it into perspective, it may be the lowest paid for you but
some guys make good money out of it.
Also they get on well with the bands/muso's and enjoy the time with
them,obviously you go in with an attitude and shit hits fan and hopefully
someday drummer hits you for your stupid childish ways.
>
> george
>
As for going to a muso forum, well mate I am a member of one, but as I am
Sound Engineer with a Degree, then I thought I would stick around here and
take in the views of the others on this forum who actually speak a lot more
sense than you do, they are interesting and well up on today's topics and
equipment, as I have 27 years behind me, but been out of the Engineering
circle for the last 6 I thought I would get myself back up to date.
So do me a favour George, learn to spell, grow up, get a life, then f**k off
and stop being a 1st class dick
sorry to anyone who reads this and finds it offensive, but some people piss
me off.
Gordon (SoundBytes)
Phildo
> sorry to anyone who reads this and finds it offensive, but some people
> piss
> me off.
Seems you are pretty good at pissing people off yourself.
Phildo
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
> HI tbmoas58 (George)
>
> I try to be nice and you jump in well here we go...
>> why not start you own thrrad in some muso forum where all the litte
>> kiddies will flock to you with thier
>> "why I hate sound guys" bullshit
>
>
> I haven't once said I hate soundguys, and most soundguys can spell unlike
> your sad self you anal retentive twat.
nothing to say, so attack some meaningless bulshit
have at it
lil biddy , if thats all you can bring to the table
>
>>
>> If every musician dropped off the face of the earth I would still be
>> doing
>> sound, profitably
>
> The world is not flat and muso's will not fall of the face of it, infact
> if
> they did what the hell would you do with your sound enforcement gear?
Hint, music is about 1/3 of what my sound gear does, the rest is legitimate
talent
if you can't think of applications for sound reiforcment that does not
incude musicians, you are trying to think with the diminutive musicians
brain
> Disco's? oh no you can't have any music at all because you got rid of the
> music, but just incase then go for it and have fun.
do it several times a week, bucko
>
>> reinforcing musicians is ony maybe 30% of my work
>
> Got to give you that one, there is more to a sound engineers life than
> making bands load and full, you do have a great deal more work to do than
> just bands.
>
>> in fact "Most " work with musicians is amoung the lowest paying work a
>> sound guy can do
>
> You need to put it into perspective, it may be the lowest paid for you but
> some guys make good money out of it.
> Also they get on well with the bands/muso's and enjoy the time with
> them,obviously you go in with an attitude and shit hits fan and hopefully
> someday drummer hits you for your stupid childish ways.
>
here is the email I got this morning from the band I worked with last night
Hey George -- thank you . . . a pleasure to have you along. Great sound,
very professional, couldn't be easier to get along with -- you make it easy!
We'll be in touch, for sure. Please pass our thanks along to Caspar as well
. . .
All the best,
Mark
>>
>
> As for going to a muso forum, well mate I am a member of one, but as I am
> Sound Engineer with a Degree, then I thought I would stick around here and
> take in the views of the others on this forum who actually speak a lot
> more
> sense than you do, they are interesting and well up on today's topics and
> equipment, as I have 27 years behind me, but been out of the Engineering
> circle for the last 6 I thought I would get myself back up to date.
>
> So do me a favour George, learn to spell, grow up, get a life, then f**k
> off
> and stop being a 1st class dick
you get what you give
and as for speling, I simpy don't give a fuck about it hear, "Most" of my
mispelings are typos but again
I am not going to spend effort proofreading stuff for a casual exchange
or maybe you just like to bitch about what you are expected to deal
with.sounds like a pointless muso wanker thing to me
>
> sorry to anyone who reads this and finds it offensive, but some people
> piss
> me off.
>
Gordo, you do piss me off, you make me laugh, and not with you
good day
Lil Buddy
george
clove
> On Feb 2, 6:41 pm, clove <masterclove-cl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 2007-01-30 09:26:46 -0600, Frisco <pfr...@gmail.com> said:
>>
>>> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:08:08 GMT, clove <masterclove-cl...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Rock and Roll is supposed to be fun. Really! Lighten up folks.
>>
>>> Me thinks you need to take your own advice there, mister. Man, I'd
>>> hate to be playing in YOUR club. You sound like you have a chip on
>>> your shoulder the size of Cleveland and it's aimed at all musicans.
>>> Sheesh... (I work on both sides of the mic, BTW)
>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> actually.. I toured as a signed artist to a major label for over a
>> decade. I know what I am talking about..and I know that people in
>> general, make rock and roll shows more stressfull and frantic then it
>> has to be. I have run sound for literally over 10 thousand bands, Pro
>> and Amatuer, in the last 10 years.
>
> And you either consider us stupid or are just a very poor liar.
> That's 20 bands a week...every week...for ten years...sure you have.
>
> Austin
I have run sound for 20 bands just this weekend already Austin. It's
not hard to figure out unless you are 20- something and cannot conceive
of that much work. I have worked in a night club as a full time sound
engineer since 1994. 5 days a week, minimum of 4 bands a night. Mondays
and Tuesdays are usually a night off, but not always, and there are the
random Monday-Tuesday night road shows. I have toured occasionally with
bigger acts, just to get out of the rut, which takes the load off cause
i am doing only one band a night.. so there are some months I had it
"easy".
While the figure seems absurd to mention, it's not really. I don't
have a precise figure, who does? But where i live at..there are battle
of the bands and festivals every single week. The norm for the clubs I
work at now are 5-6 bands a night. The battle of the bands setups
sometimes have me doing two back to back..like this weekend. The
greatest number of bands I have run in one day was 19. And I have done
that on 3 occasions in my life. I have run 18 in a day more than I care
to remember. So no Austin.. It is not unusual for me to run sound for
25-30 bands in a weeks time. 10,000 bands may seem extreme to you, and
maybe it is actually 9,000 something, maybe it is upwards of 11. 13
years of at least 20 bands a week. Pretty sure I have that kicked my
man.The math adds up fine. I can tell you, it certainly feels like 10k!
:-) I am afterall 42 years old now..
Just to give you an insite into my weekend, I am on a break right now
for super bowl, been running sound since 11 am this morning and will go
right thru to 2 am after the game. 14 bands today (already did 10, have
3 touring acts and one local tonight left), ran 14 bands yesterday.
What kinda pussy ass jobs do you have? ;-) Must be nice to work 2 days
a week for 2 bands. :-)
clove
well, if it is the polyphonic spree..you have too ;-)
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
man if I did that much I would be earning about 300,000$ a year
typical 10-15 band event is 650$ for set up and tear down plus 100$ per band
and this is for a club rig suitable for up to 300 or so
anyone that does this for 5 nights a week for10 years is certifably insane
the most I ever did was 4 stages and like 140 bands over 3 days, and I
needed a crew of 12 to cover that
george
>
AustinMN
>
> I try to be nice and you jump in well here we go...
Liar.
> I haven't once said I hate soundguys, and most soundguys can spell unlike
> your sad self you anal retentive twat.
Since you can't spell, I guess that rules you out...
> infact [in fact]
> enforcement [reinforcement]
> incase [in case]
> engineers [engineer's]
> So do me a favour George, learn to spell, grow up, get a life, then f**k off
> and stop being a 1st class dick
>
> sorry to anyone who reads this and finds it offensive, but some people piss
> me off.
I'm still waiting for a post from you that is not offensive. It's not
the language; it's the demostrated stupidity and hypocrisy.
Austin
michael gaster
> On 2007-01-30 16:57:06 -0600, "michael gaster" <gas...@gastereng.com>
> said:
>
>> The system/house guy telling me I don't need overheads; my response is
>> usually "those aren't cymbal mics"
>
> You really using them in the capacity of room mics?? HA! I call bullshit
> on that.
ok I will only respond because you dont know who I am or what I do/have
done...
first before jumping to try to flame someone, try to think thru how someone
might be using their mics in the given situation, in my case I mic the kit
as a whole, which is dependent on how the drummer plays the kit, a good
drummer (which I typically work with) plays the kit as a single instrument,
a pair of overheads do most of the work, with the (drum) head mics providing
impact or verb send... and yes I delay the overheads.
>>
>> The house guy/monitor guy who rolls his eyes when I ask him to flatten
>> the graph on a mix left from before, knowing that I just put up my mic
>> kit and don't use 57's and 58's like he does.
>
> Yep, and having toured for years on both sides of the mic..I learned that
> I don't necessarily know better than everybody else before I turn up
> anything how to graph the system. I do it by listening after I bring up
> sound..not looking at the graph visually. Maybe the house guy knows the
> problematic frequencies in his mix better than you do??..you who just
> walked in...cause he is there every night. Arrogant statement on your
> part. Rethink it through.
arrogant statments are from your end my friend, we (experienced engineers)
all know mic choice, mic placement/monitor placement can get around 95% of
all feedback issues, I also like to start with a flat graph on wedges
especially if the graph is a semi pro unit; this way I have an understanding
of what the speaker is doing on its own, and 99% of the time I know how to
work around it with out alot of phase altered shitty graphic Eq hacks in the
mix. typically 3 or maybe 4 bands are affected on a graph when I am thru
setting up a monitor mix and the first 2 are usually a LF voicing
adjustment.
>>
>> the artists who absolutely has to have ______ but doesn't travel with it.
>
> That's what you were hired for..;-) Buy it, expense it.
you dont get it... tell me how easy it is to get a AKG D12 (not D112)
>>
>> being asked "do you know what all of those controls do?" I usually
>> respond with "yeah and I hope my accountant knows the Tax code"
>
> ?? I can understand somebody wondering if you know what all those controls
> do based upon the crap you posted up above.
how old are you?
>>
>> hearing anyone say "they don't need all of that" my thought is "look here
>> dip shit are you making the music?"
>
> I can tell you from not seeing your band or knowing anthing about you..
> you don't need all that. True engineers make what they have to work with,
> work..others just bitch and complain.
I have toured with bands some, but mostly have provided SR for one offs and
festivals, what I or any artist needs to present a performance a certain way
is just what I or the artist needs; and is not subject to criticizm by a
lazy envious sloth.
who do you work with/what company do you own?
--
Michael Gaster
Gaster Engineering