Is it possible to isolate instruments/vocals in a mono recording? Can pitch correction be added to individual elements?
zvo...@gmail.com
separated to isolate separate instrument/vocals and then apply Auto-
Tune/pitch correction or other fx?
Is it that it would take a lot of tech knowledge to execute this or
has something like this reached the point of just making the right
adjustments in a program like Cakewalk, Pro Tools, etc.?
Thanks.
Chris Whealy
Beatles as soon as the technology to do so was available.
Let me ask you the same question, but set in a different context, then
you should understand the situation better.
You have some red paint, some white paint and some blue paint and you
mix them together to form a kind of pinky-purple.
Can you un-mix the paint back to the original colours?
Chris W
--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---
Nil
alt.music.home-studio:
> You have some red paint, some white paint and some blue paint and
> you mix them together to form a kind of pinky-purple.
> Can you un-mix the paint back to the original colours?
Or my favorite analogy: After you bake a cake, can you get the eggs
back out?
zvo...@gmail.com
> On 30 Nov 2007, Chris Whealy <moc....@ylaehw.sirhc> wrote in
Thanks for the replies...
I came across this link "Model-based techniques for signal separation
of audio signals (Adaptive conversion of monophonic audio to true
multitrack)"
http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~jes1/Mono-to-Multitrack.htm
So, I guess it's still in the research phase.
Arny Krueger
news:fipaf2$sp1$1...@news.sap-ag.de
> Let me ask you the same question, but set in a different
> context, then you should understand the situation better.
> You have some red paint, some white paint and some blue
> paint and you mix them together to form a kind of
> pinky-purple.
> Can you un-mix the paint back to the original colours?
Sure, just examine the paint, molecule by molecule, and take advantage of
the fact that different pigments are different chemicals. This is probably
possible today, but very time-consuming.
Arny Krueger
message news:Xns99F876D3...@216.196.97.136
Only if you don't mix the batter very well. ;-)
Max Arwood
This would be very easy. You just call up Capital and as for the price to
lease the original masters. Dump it on the computer and do what ever you
want. Unless your budget is not in that range, if not hire some really good
studio musicians.
http://www.alivenetwork.com/bandpage.asp?bandname=(Beatles)%20Fab%20Beatles
or
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=64755501
Max Arwood
<zvo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5d19217-e16a-4cf7...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Sean Conolly
news:85_3j.21729$4V6....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
> With all the negative answers I thought I would add a positive one.....
> This would be very easy. You just call up Capital and as for the price to
> lease the original masters. Dump it on the computer and do what ever you
> want. Unless your budget is not in that range, if not hire some really
> good studio musicians.
Except that a lot of the old masters were also in mono. IIRC some of the
early sessions just used a single mic, with the band set up around it.
It's got me wondering, though, how much material was recorded as multi-track
to mono only, with no stereo version released. I would imagine that
multi-track recording and stereo releases followed each other fairly
closely, at least for pop music.
Sean
videochas www.locoworks.com
> "Max Arwood" <maxarw...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
In the liner notes for "The Carl Stalling Project" there is a
photograph of the Warner Brothers Orchestra in a recording session.
Two RCA 44DX microphones appear, suspended on Mole-Richardson booms,
above the museos. Since the album is stereo, I suspect that they were
each mixed to their own track. There are no spot mikes in evidence.
nitpik
"Max Arwood" <maxa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:85_3j.21729$4V6....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
The Beatles music was mostly mastered on a 4 track machine. They did a lot
of bouncing to get the final mix.
Phildo
It's very high-end technology but it is now possible. Interestingly enough
my cousin was working on a project to separate individual signals from a mix
a few years ago but this was for the military. I suppose the technology is
gradually filtering its way down to us, especially given the massive
increase in computing power since his team cracked the problem.
By the way, my cousin no longer works on that project but rather spends his
time designing nuclear weapons and working on particle accelerators these
days.
Phildo
Ron(UK)
They do it all the time on TV! Our guvmint boffins can isolate a fly
farting while it`s stuck on the windscreen of a jumbo jet in flight.
They can also blow up a single frame of blurry cctv footage to show the
hairs in a builders bumcrack!
Ain't technology wunnerful?
Ron(UK)(Spooks fan)
Netmask
The mathematical problems of analysis are daunting, confounded by musical
terms that would be difficult to resolve as an algorithm. For example many
years ago I posted an example mono wav file of 2 flutes and a piano. One
flute played melody and the other an obligatio whilst the piano tinkled
away! The object was to produce a midi file (yes the old can you convert a
wavefile to midi question, so I can rip off someone else's arrangement, the
underlying motif for the question!!!). Now the problem is how do you
separate a melody from an obligatio and a piano for that matter an
instrument that has more numerical harmonics attached as one goes down the
scale in contrast to most other instruments? Then how do you assign say the
fourth harmonic of a note from one flute with the other or an orphaned
12,526Hz harmonic - who gets it?
Now if you could extract a voice buried in a symphony orchestra or rock
group, that didn't sound like it was being phoned in from Pluto the security
and other spooks would *really* be interested!! In terms of the originally
poster I think this falls into the "myth" busted category for all practical
purposes. BTW even if my original recording was stereo it still doesn't
help much... As for the Beatles tapes as others have commented they were
mostly 4 track heavily overdubbed.....
Dave Emory
Feed the cake to chickens, then collect the eggs that were "converted" from
cake.
Doc
> Is there a way that a mono recording, (i.e. the Beatles), can be
> separated to isolate separate instrument/vocals and then apply Auto-
> Tune/pitch correction or other fx?
This isn't exactly what you're talking about but I've taken a
recording where the vocalist needed a little help and bumped it up a
bit sharp in a spot or two. Since she's much more prominent than the
band and they're not doing a lot to being with, it works. What you
mostly hear is her pitch being correct relative to the notes
immediately before and after, you don't really hear any issue with the
backing instruments, certainly nothing a casual listener is going to
notice.
hank alrich
Yeah, okay, but have you seen what happens when chickens eat music?
--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
Bob Howes
"hank alrich" <walk...@nv.net> wrote in message
news:1i8kfs3.noadyor79boaN%walk...@nv.net...
Yeah. You get lumps of rap all over the chicken coop.
Bob
Noel Bachelor
> You have some red paint, some white paint and some blue paint and you
> mix them together to form a kind of pinky-purple.
> Can you un-mix the paint back to the original colours?
Paint the wall with that paint, even if it's badly mixed and swirly.
Then take a photo of that wall, and process it with filters to obtain
colour separations. Printers have been doing that for many years.
In audio terms though, that's more akin to basic crossover filtering, not
the separation of different sources with fully overlapping spectral
ranges.
Noel Bachelor noelbachelorAT(From:_domain)
Language Recordings Inc (Darwin Australia)
Ty Ford
(in article <1i8kfs3.noadyor79boaN%walk...@nv.net>):
Chicken shit?
(not a personal attack)
Ty Ford
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU
![Dec [Cluskey]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXOIdicD27KLgvp612cXlqNm2cXRNukvx0eyr1XYcUrBeGQQfk=s40-c)
Dec [Cluskey]
> <zvo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b5d19217-e16a-4cf7...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
think this falls into the "myth" busted category for all practical
> purposes. BTW even if my original recording was stereo it still doesn't
> help much... As for the Beatles tapes as others have commented they were
> mostly 4 track heavily overdubbed.....
Hi
Perhaps this is the time to ask a question [slightly off thread].
I have noticed in the past year or so that back tracks bought from
High Quality companies in the UK are hard to distinguish from the
original chart hits. In fact, some would seem to still have a
smidgeon of the star's lead vocal on.
I am constantly asked "is there software available that will simply
remove the orginal lead vocal and leave the backing intact?" My
answer is always on the lines of some of the posters to the original
question posed here.
However, they then point me toward the 'vocal remover' FX on Behringer
mixers that have FX built in. Oddly, I have never used one.
In trying to be all knowledgable about the questions, I bought a
software pack called 'Vocal Remover' by a company called
www.Make-Your-Own-Karaoke.com. The results were unusable. The
software operates the old 'out of phase' trick to remove the middle of
the stereo.
So my questions are these:
1) Have the High End back track providers now got access to a mix
(from the record companies) of current chart tracks with the lead
vocals removed? I personally always make various mixes of tracks I
produce or appear on for TV/Live PA/Radio work. They could get these
from the record companies?
2) Is there a definitive piece of software that can intuitively remove
the lead vocal cleanly from an existing stereo release and leave a
back track with no loss of quality [I personally doubt that]
3) Looking at it the other way, I hear lots of dub mixes using just
the clean lead vocal from Chart tracks. Again, have these guys got
access to the original multi track/computer files of Kylie, J Lo etc.
from the record companies? I'm not talking of remixes commissioned by
the record companies - just normal club DJ dub mixes.
I would be glad of any insight?
Dec [Cluskey]
PS: My chart career spanned exactly the time of the Beatles
beginnings and my band were the first to use double tracking for
vocals and overdubbing on 4 track for commercial release and
charting. I cannot take the praise for this - we worked with a great
USA producer called Shel Talmy, who introduced us to the
techniques ... difficult in those days when the multi track tape
machines had to be put into sel-synch mode to overdub or 'drop in'.
Shel also produced The Who and The Kinks, Fortunes etc. As a
coincidence, I lived at 54 Boston Place in London ... The Beatles
owned and used a studio, in a converted mews house, six doors away ...
strangely, I have never seen or heard it ever mentioned! Weird.
Mike Rivers
> 1) Have the High End back track providers now got access to a mix
> (from the record companies) of current chart tracks with the lead
> vocals removed?
Not likely unless they're stolen or it's the record company themselves
putting out the music-minus-vocal product. Dave Martin, who used to be
a frequent contributor here, had a long term project a while back to
record "sound-alike" backing tracks. As a musician, arranger,
producer, engineer, and working member of the Nashville music studio
scene, he had access to top flite musicians and arrangers who could
chart out any pop tune, and a band assembled from appropriate players
who were available could crank it out. You'd be hard put to tell it
from the original. And it only took an afternoon to do a few songs.
Point being that if you're good enough, you don't need the original
tracks, you only need to hear the finished song. There's no assurance
(and none is necessary) that the sound-alike used exactly the same
gear, settings, and patches as the original, but the goal was to sound
enough like it so that someone could sing along and feel like they
were in the right band, and that was accomplished efficiently.
> 2) Is there a definitive piece of software that can intuitively remove
> the lead vocal cleanly from an existing stereo release and leave a
> back track with no loss of quality [I personally doubt that]
No.
> 3) Looking at it the other way, I hear lots of dub mixes using just
> the clean lead vocal from Chart tracks. Again, have these guys got
> access to the original multi track/computer files of Kylie, J Lo etc.
> from the record companies?
Usually. But if the vocal is clean with nothing behind it (or nothing
that they can't use as part of the production), producers have been
known to "sample" existing product without permission. Sometimes with
permission, too. They're not all bad.
Sue Morton
music. I have purchased hundreds of backing trax or "minus one" recordings
over the years, of contemporary Christian songs for church use.
1. Some of these are exceptional copycats, and while it can be discerned
these are not the original musicians and/or instruments, they are very close
and fool the average listener that is not intimately familiar with the
artist recording.
2. Some of these trax are of the original musicians but another recording
session, not the one that was made 'popular'. They sound slightly different
just as the copycat trax do, and the lead vocal is completely absent. In my
opinion these are a mix without the lead vocals added in.
3. On some of these trax you can hear the faint lead vocal's reverb in the
background. If I take the original artist recording and put it through the
old remove center of stereo image trick, my results sound very similar. In
my opinion that is exactly what I purchased, perhaps tweaked up a bit better
than I have done.
4. I have purcahsed "minus one" recordings that are without a doubt the
original artist's popular recording, and the lead vocals are entirely
absent. In those instances they are often marketed as "original artist
studio mixes". These seem to be the exact same airplay mix that became
popular, but without the lead vocal, and are generally the newer songs.
When the "minus one" church trax industry recently took off like wildfire
the studios responded with a very marketable by-product.
--
Sue Morton
"Dec [Cluskey]" <d...@makehits.com> wrote in message
news:2aaed80f-3ba8-4a42...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Dec [Cluskey]
> On Dec 5, 10:48 am, "Dec [Cluskey]" <d...@makehits.com> wrote:
>
> > 1) Have the High End back track providers now got access to a mix
> > (from the record companies) of current chart tracks with the lead
> > vocals removed?
>
> Not likely unless they're stolen or it's the record company themselves
> putting out the music-minus-vocal product. Dave Martin, who used to be
Appreciated
The concept of musos copying existing chart toons is fully accepted
[much like the cheap versions of chart tracks available for Woolworths
in the 60's] ... but I still cannot accept 'back tracks' offered for
sale by companies where the original 'star' vocal track can be
'slightly' heard ... it is weird!
I appreciate your view on chart lead vocals being isolated and then
used in dub tracks but it still does not definitively answer my
question: "are these solo tracks available from the record releasing
companies?"
Dec [Cluskey]
Dec [Cluskey]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your point (4) would seem to point to the fact that UK record
companies seem to make 'back track' versions available?
There was a small period in the 80's where the second track on a CD
would be the back track with the lead vocal missing. This practice
has been dropped, but perhaps, the record companies make this service
available to interested parties? As they may do to dub artists when
they require just the original lead vocals with no backing?
Dec [Cluskey]
Laurence Payne
<d...@makehits.com> wrote:
>
>The concept of musos copying existing chart toons is fully accepted
>[much like the cheap versions of chart tracks available for Woolworths
>in the 60's] ... but I still cannot accept 'back tracks' offered for
>sale by companies where the original 'star' vocal track can be
>'slightly' heard ... it is weird!
>
>I appreciate your view on chart lead vocals being isolated and then
>used in dub tracks but it still does not definitively answer my
>question: "are these solo tracks available from the record releasing
>companies?"
I guess you're in as good a position as anyone to use your contacts
and find out for us. Would you, please?
Dec [Cluskey]
wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:20:30 -0800 (PST), "Dec [Cluskey]"
>
> >question: "are these solo tracks available from the record releasing
> >companies?"
>
> I guess you're in as good a position as anyone to use your contacts
> and find out for us. Would you, please?
Laurence ....
I have tried, trust me! I hate not having the full information on a
subject.
I either get a blank look ["don't understand what you are getting at,
Dec"] .... or a simple ["I don't know"].
Yet when I listen to a live dub show on UK Radio1, particularly the
'black' and Ragga major shows, I hear soloed voices from current chart
hits with mental rhythm tracks added.
Perhaps it depends on the importance of the dub DJ ... if he is a huge
name then the record companies would let him have any solo tracks he
wants ... that is my personal take on it. I reckon those DJs are
simply not going to give away their secrets?
Dec [Cluskey]
Laurence Payne
<d...@makehits.com> wrote:
>
>Yet when I listen to a live dub show on UK Radio1, particularly the
>'black' and Ragga major shows, I hear soloed voices from current chart
>hits with mental rhythm tracks added.
>
>Perhaps it depends on the importance of the dub DJ ... if he is a huge
>name then the record companies would let him have any solo tracks he
>wants ... that is my personal take on it. I reckon those DJs are
>simply not going to give away their secrets?
Maybe. But generally there are far fewer conspiricies, fewer
"secrets" than people like to imagine :-)
Sue Morton
>>>> Your point (4) would seem to point to the fact that UK record
Are you referring to my post? If so, I didn't mention any studios. In fact
the only trax I've purchased have been done here in the US, so I couldn't
say one way or the other about UK studios anyhow. Perhaps you were
referring to the OP's post and not my #4...?
--
Sue Morton
"Dec [Cluskey]" <d...@makehits.com> wrote in message
news:0a1c0f80-619b-462c...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
Phildo
> The concept of musos copying existing chart toons is fully accepted
> [much like the cheap versions of chart tracks available for Woolworths
> in the 60's] ...
Little bit of trivia for you - those Woolworths records and their ilk was
actually how Elton John got started in the music industry and he appears on
quite a few of them.
I still have loads of them up in the loft which I haven't played for at
least 25 years.
Phildo
ober...@gmail.com
> zvo...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Is there a way that a mono recording, (i.e. the Beatles), can be
> > separated to isolate separate instrument/vocals and then apply Auto-
> > Tune/pitch correction or other fx?
> >
> > has something like this reached the point of just making the right
> > adjustments in a program like Cakewalk, Pro Tools, etc.?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> Beatles as soon as the technology to do so was available.
> Let me ask you the same question, but set in a different context, then
> you should understand the situation better.
> mix them together to form a kind of pinky-purple.
> Can you un-mix the paint back to the original colours?
>
>
> --
> The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
> But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
> ---
be nice man,,,,,,
Hassan Essam
I advise you to communicate with them
We used an easy style in our
https://abydosseo.com/
website when we have our own videos and explanations
But I nominate you style BTS