Yamaha P3500S
Ron(UK)
I`m thinking about buying a couple of P3500S for my 'voice on a stick' rig.
Ron(UK)
Sander
I've got a P7000s and I'm happy with it.
I chose the P5000s over the P3500s mainly because of the lower weight.
P2500s and P3500s are slightly different design than the P5000s and
P7000s. The 2 smaller amps have a conventional power supply and weigh
more than their SMPS larger brothers.
I then decided a few extra watts wouldn't hurt and the price difference
between the P5000s and P7000s was small enough to just get the bigger
one. Never had the need to really push it hard as a result so I'm not
sure how well it would hold up if you're planning to continuously slam
it to it's maximum output. I expect it'll be just fine but I don't have
the experience to back it up as mine has a relatively easy life as it's
more powerful than I need (and I like it that way).
It is usually driving small systems (1x 4Ohm 18"sub on one channel, 2x
8Ohm tops on the other channel in bars etc. or 2x2 8ohm monitors.)
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one and am considering replacing some
other older amps with these.
Sander
Ron(UK)
Cheers for that
Ron(UK)
--
Lune Valley Audio
Public Address Systems
Hire Sales Maintenance
www.lunevalleyaudio.com
Tim S Kemp
I have used P7000 quite a bit, borrowed one to replace a blown Pulse 1100 -
has the power but sounds a bit weak - if you get what I mean. Replaced it
with an MC2 E45 instead.
They're an OK amp, the rig they live in used to be macrotech powered so is
now a lot lighter, but again the sound is not the same. I've got three out
in the Gambia being driven hard in stupid heat and they're surviving well.
--
"Get a paper bag"
Mike Gilmour
"Tim S Kemp" <ne...@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BvadnVDnOqJSqQTb...@eclipse.net.uk...
I've used a P4500 and that model appeared a bit lightweight in lower
frequencies, changed to a Behringer EP2500 and noticed a difference straight
away at similar gain levels, the Yamaha was reliable but don't know about
the Behringer yet.
Mike
Ole Johansen Sjurdal
you'll find anything better in it's price range.
Ole
"Ron(UK)" <r...@lunevalleyaudio.com> skrev i melding
news:TNmdnVOIerfjZAXb...@bt.com...
CJ
"Ron(UK)" <r...@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:TNmdnVOIerfjZAXb...@bt.com...
Hi Ron,
I've got a P7000S running two EV SX500s and have had no problems. In fact, I
got the amp on recommendation from this NG, then, by coincidence, found
Andertons (Surrey) had a special deal on it. I've been using it for about
two years now.
Regards,
Colin
Ron(UK)
>
> I've used a P4500 and that model appeared a bit lightweight in lower
> frequencies, changed to a Behringer EP2500 and noticed a difference straight
> away at similar gain levels, the Yamaha was reliable but don't know about
> the Behringer yet.
The reason I`m looking at P3500S is because both of my Behringer EP2500
have let me down on gigs.
Ron(UK)
rabwarrior
What happened? The EP2500 seems to have a good reputation.
Ian Cunningham
"Ron(UK)" <r...@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote
> Does anyone have any real life experience with the Yamaha P series amps?
> I`m thinking about buying a couple of P3500S for my 'voice on a stick'
> rig.
I've got a couple of P2500S's (as well as PC9500Ns) and they've been great.
They're well build, sound good, aren't too heavy, are well priced and have a
good recognisable brand name -
Mine have had a fairly easy life & haven't been abused but they look like
they could handle abuse well
(I know my old P2500 & P3500's could - they're built like tanks and weigh
about as much)
Ian Cunningham
Ron(UK)
The first amp to fail is a couple of weeks out of guarantee. Whilst
driving monitors at a folk festival - hardly heavy duties, 8 ohm load -
it started to quietly crackle, then suddenly increased to full volume
crashing and banging. It was pretty disconcerting for the artists and
audience, and I was probably lucky not to lose the speakers.
It`s a thermal fault on channel A, presumably something on the underside
of the board as heating and cooling components on the top side has
little effects. I dont have much interest in repairing the thing as
after yesterday, my faith in them has gone.
Amp 2 failed yesterday during a theatre production, again not working
hard, just driving two plastic boxes on sticks. It just lost output on
both channels with a slight burning smell before blowing the mains fuse.
This amp is about 18 months old I think.
So in less that three weeks I`ve lost two amps worth the best part of
£500, but more importantly, had embarrassing breakdowns during
performances. I always carry a spare amp - in this case a faithful old
QSC USA series - but those two or three minutes while an replacement amp
is patched in can seem like a lifetime and not good for ones reputation.
In future, I`ll spend a bit more money and buy better.
Ron(UK)
Eeyore
"Ron(UK)" wrote:
Ah, I was wondering why you weren't looking at Behringer.
How did they fail ?
Graham
Eeyore
"Ron(UK)" wrote:
> rabwarrior wrote:
> >
> > What happened? The EP2500 seems to have a good reputation.
>
> The first amp to fail is a couple of weeks out of guarantee. Whilst
> driving monitors at a folk festival - hardly heavy duties, 8 ohm load -
> it started to quietly crackle, then suddenly increased to full volume
> crashing and banging. It was pretty disconcerting for the artists and
> audience, and I was probably lucky not to lose the speakers.
>
> It`s a thermal fault on channel A, presumably something on the underside
> of the board as heating and cooling components on the top side has
> little effects.
I wonder if this is related to the use of lead-free solder.
Graham
Ron(UK)
At the moment, I can't be arsed to find out!
Ron(UK)
Bob Urz
I think one thing many people forget is that we have budget amplifiers
that cost $500 (US) that would have cost 1000/1500 in that power range
10 years ago+.
Yea, the specs are good, but there must be some long term price to pay
in the robustness of the design and the components used. The day is
coming that we toss amplifiers (or other gear) like broken consumer
electronics because its no longer cost effective to fix it.
What worries me is the switching power supplies. Linear supplies in
power amps are usually robust and don't fail very often. They use big
iron transformers and big filter caps. The newer switchers are not much
different than what's used in a computer or such (scaled of course).
And i have gone through a number of computer power supplies over the
years. I think long term we will be sing a lot more PS failures and
weird problems associated with bizarre switcher faults.
Bob
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Bob Urz
Ron(UK) wrote:
You might want to look at the new Crown XTi 2000/4000. I have not been
a big Crown fan, but i know some people that have tried these and so
far, so good. And they have a lot of great on board extra features that
could be handy. With built in crossovers, EQ, delay and such you could
replace other rack devices and save money there.
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xti.htm
Ian
wrote:
>Yea, the specs are good, but there must be some long term price to pay
>in the robustness of the design and the components used. The day is
>coming that we toss amplifiers (or other gear) like broken consumer
>electronics because its no longer cost effective to fix it.
Any gear in the audio world (or indeed in most areas of electronics)
is a compromise between cost and performance, durability and weight
etc.
This day is probably coming faster than most people think. Though
there's been massive improvements in design over the years the new
units are overall far more reliable than the old power amps of the
70s. Anyone who remembers the Phase Linear 350 and 700B series will
know what I mean. You only had to look at it wrong and those buggers
blew up.
For my money the mid-late 80s and early 90s produced the toughest amps
made. Sadly they came with one small drawback, weight to match their
toughness.
>What worries me is the switching power supplies. Linear supplies in
>power amps are usually robust and don't fail very often. They use big
>iron transformers and big filter caps. The newer switchers are not much
>different than what's used in a computer or such (scaled of course).
>And i have gone through a number of computer power supplies over the
>years. I think long term we will be sing a lot more PS failures and
>weird problems associated with bizarre switcher faults.
>Bob
The vast majority of PC's have power supplies that cost at most 10
bucks to build.
A well designed and constructed switch mode power supply is very
robust, however as with all things power supply related they aren't
cheap to build. Japanese instrumentation companies like Yokogowa (one
of the pioneers of switch mode supply) build brilliant "no fail"
(that's the correct term folks) units for industrial instrument use
in such diverse applications as controlling nuclear power plants, oil
refineries and the likes as well as for applications such as medical
and scientific test gear. The downside is they cost more than a few
dollars allocated by the PC manufacturers to build.
Ian
Eeyore
Bob Urz wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > "Ron(UK)" wrote:
> >>rabwarrior wrote:
> >>
> >>>What happened? The EP2500 seems to have a good reputation.
> >>
> >>The first amp to fail is a couple of weeks out of guarantee. Whilst
> >>driving monitors at a folk festival - hardly heavy duties, 8 ohm load -
> >>it started to quietly crackle, then suddenly increased to full volume
> >>crashing and banging. It was pretty disconcerting for the artists and
> >>audience, and I was probably lucky not to lose the speakers.
> >>
> >>It`s a thermal fault on channel A, presumably something on the underside
> >>of the board as heating and cooling components on the top side has
> >>little effects.
> >
> >
> > I wonder if this is related to the use of lead-free solder.
>
>
> I think one thing many people forget is that we have budget amplifiers
> that cost $500 (US) that would have cost 1000/1500 in that power range
> 10 years ago+.
A lot of that is down to the quantities they're made in.
> Yea, the specs are good, but there must be some long term price to pay
> in the robustness of the design and the components used. The day is
> coming that we toss amplifiers (or other gear) like broken consumer
> electronics because its no longer cost effective to fix it.
Behringer's EP2500 is basically a QSC RMX2450. Would you throw the Behringer but fix
the QSC ?
> What worries me is the switching power supplies. Linear supplies in
> power amps are usually robust and don't fail very often. They use big
> iron transformers and big filter caps. The newer switchers are not much
> different than what's used in a computer or such (scaled of course).
> And i have gone through a number of computer power supplies over the
> years. I think long term we will be sing a lot more PS failures and
> weird problems associated with bizarre switcher faults.
Switching supplies are inherently less robust than a good conventional one for sure.
Graham
Eeyore
Ian wrote:
> Bob Urz wrote:
>
> >Yea, the specs are good, but there must be some long term price to pay
> >in the robustness of the design and the components used. The day is
> >coming that we toss amplifiers (or other gear) like broken consumer
> >electronics because its no longer cost effective to fix it.
>
> Any gear in the audio world (or indeed in most areas of electronics)
> is a compromise between cost and performance, durability and weight
> etc.
>
> This day is probably coming faster than most people think. Though
> there's been massive improvements in design over the years the new
> units are overall far more reliable than the old power amps of the
> 70s.
I completely disagree. There have been lots of really reliable pro amps from
decades back. In fact, the glut of cheap Chinese off-brand products flooding the
market now has in fact reduced reliability to new lows.
> Anyone who remembers the Phase Linear 350 and 700B series will
> know what I mean. You only had to look at it wrong and those buggers
> blew up.
Phase Linears were designed as hi-fi amps not SR. There's the main problem.
Graham
Eeyore
Marc Amsterdam wrote:
> Very well possible! i had an XTA 226 go down that way, not so much
> emberrasing as much dangerous as it was the system control in a fairly
> large clear piston4 rig.
> It went down with no warning blowing some sort of pink noise out at
> max gain. Imagine 8 x 10004 amps going ape on 16 P4's.+ 6 p650
> It felt like the building was coming down.
Did XTA say it was a soldering failure ?
Graham
Ian
<rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> This day is probably coming faster than most people think. Though
>> there's been massive improvements in design over the years the new
>> units are overall far more reliable than the old power amps of the
>> 70s.
>
>I completely disagree. There have been lots of really reliable pro amps from
>decades back. In fact, the glut of cheap Chinese off-brand products flooding the
>market now has in fact reduced reliability to new lows.
1) The majority of Chinese low end amps are not professional grade
units and no amount of slick advertising can make a turd in to a rose.
So they don't get counted in my books. Just because a distributor
labels something as 'pro' doesn't mean it is.
2) Genuine professional gear is far more reliable now than in past
decades in part due to far better manufacturing techniques for silicon
based components, eg: Mosfets, transistors and IC's.
3) One needs to differentiate here, there are 2 very seperate markets
for professional amplifiers, one is line driver applications using
70/100V lines as found in many shopping centers etc and the other is
live sound reinforcement. (studio's don't count, it's a tiny market in
reality). 70/100V line gear has always been pretty reliable as it's
generally fairly low powered gear. The same can't be said for a lot
of older power amps used in professional S.R.
>> Anyone who remembers the Phase Linear 350 and 700B series will
>> know what I mean. You only had to look at it wrong and those buggers
>> blew up.
>
>Phase Linears were designed as hi-fi amps not SR. There's the main problem.
Phase Linears were indeed HiFi amps with rack mounts and their
reliability showed its design heratige. However they were also the
backbone of the 70s pro touring rigs along with the equally fragile
Spectro Acoustics (SR500 etc) and the later but far more rugged BGW
700 range. Those of us who had the misfortune to start in SR back in
the 70s know only too well just how unreliable and crude power amps
really were.
Ian
Eeyore
Ian wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:23:56 +0100, Eeyore
> <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> This day is probably coming faster than most people think. Though
> >> there's been massive improvements in design over the years the new
> >> units are overall far more reliable than the old power amps of the
> >> 70s.
> >
> >I completely disagree. There have been lots of really reliable pro amps from
> >decades back. In fact, the glut of cheap Chinese off-brand products flooding the
> >market now has in fact reduced reliability to new lows.
>
> 1) The majority of Chinese low end amps are not professional grade
> units and no amount of slick advertising can make a turd in to a rose.
> So they don't get counted in my books. Just because a distributor
> labels something as 'pro' doesn't mean it is.
Neverthless people buy them and expect 'pro' results. The 'prosumer' level power amp
simply didn't exist when I started in this game.
> 2) Genuine professional gear is far more reliable now than in past
> decades in part due to far better manufacturing techniques for silicon
> based components, eg: Mosfets, transistors and IC's.
This is simply untrue.
The devices I was designing in back in 1980 were just as reliable as now.
Where on earth did you get such an idea ?
Graham
Eeyore
Ian wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Ian wrote
>
> >> Anyone who remembers the Phase Linear 350 and 700B series will
> >> know what I mean. You only had to look at it wrong and those buggers
> >> blew up.
> >
> >Phase Linears were designed as hi-fi amps not SR. There's the main problem.
>
> Phase Linears were indeed HiFi amps with rack mounts and their
> reliability showed its design heratige.
Their lack of reliability had almost nothing to do with 'heritage' and everything to
do with poor thermal design.
> However they were also the backbone of the 70s pro touring rigs
Not in the UK they weren't.
Graham
Ron(UK)
> Behringer's EP2500 is basically a QSC RMX2450. Would you throw the Behringer but fix
> the QSC ?
Yep
Ron(UK)
Ron(UK)
>
> Ian wrote:
>
>> Bob Urz wrote:
>>
>>> Yea, the specs are good, but there must be some long term price to pay
>>> in the robustness of the design and the components used. The day is
>>> coming that we toss amplifiers (or other gear) like broken consumer
>>> electronics because its no longer cost effective to fix it.
>> Any gear in the audio world (or indeed in most areas of electronics)
>> is a compromise between cost and performance, durability and weight
>> etc.
>>
>> This day is probably coming faster than most people think. Though
>> there's been massive improvements in design over the years the new
>> units are overall far more reliable than the old power amps of the
>> 70s.
>
> I completely disagree. There have been lots of really reliable pro amps from
> decades back. In fact, the glut of cheap Chinese off-brand products flooding the
> market now has in fact reduced reliability to new lows.
I still have an HH TPA100D that works, there`s an old Hill amp under the
bench, scruffy but still working. I know of several Wem 100 watters that
are early 70`s but still in use in bingo halls.