REQ: Recommendations For Tweeter Replacements in Carvin PM-15
-SG-
Has anyone ever replaced the tweeters in Carvin PM-15 cabs with
components other than Carvin? I just blew one at an outdoor acoustic
gig yesterday. As I'm not necessarily in love with the brassy
grittiness of their sound anyway, any recommendations for non-Carvin
replacements (aside from "get rid of the cab altogether") would be
appreciated.
Thanks!
Silvio
Phil Allison
"-SG-"
>
> Has anyone ever replaced the tweeters in Carvin PM-15 cabs
> with components other than Carvin?
** You mean the horn drivers - right ?
> I just blew one at an outdoor acoustic
> gig yesterday.
** How do you know the horn driver is actually "blown" ??
Have you eliminated the other possibilities ??
..... Phil
Rupert
I would recommend a non-Carvin replacement of the entire cabinet as
well as any other Carvin cabinets you may have. Possibly one of the
worst recognizable brand name boxes on the market. Low build quality,
low component quality, lousy frequency response, and poor output.
Putting high quality components in would be a waste of money.
Rupert.
-SG-
<phila...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
Thanks for your inquiry Phil.
>"-SG-"
>>
>> Has anyone ever replaced the tweeters in Carvin PM-15 cabs
>> with components other than Carvin?
>
>
>** You mean the horn drivers - right ?
Yes, the horn driver, i.e. not the 15" woofer
>
>
>> I just blew one at an outdoor acoustic
>> gig yesterday.
>
>
>** How do you know the horn driver is actually "blown" ??
I guess the a better description would be "fried" - :)
When I opened up the errant PM-15 (see below) I detected the distinct
oder of "cooked" electronics.
>
> Have you eliminated the other possibilities ??
Yes, utilizing my other PM-15, alligator clip leads leads I wired up
to be able to access terminals directly, and a speaker-level signal
from a Crown MT-1200. Incidentally I did check out the overall system
integrity (Crown MT1200 + 1 pair of Crown PM15s) that morning right
before the performance and all checked out fine.
Testing process:
1) Removed the xover and backplate of the errant PM-15 to confirm all
terminal & wiring is connected as normal (as I had a new JBL JRX1225
delivered with the hi-freq horn disconnected earlier this year!), all
was connected correctly - no loose terminal connections and such.
2) Reinstalled the xover and backplate in the errant PM-15, I put the
xovr in biamp mode and fed the hi-freq & lo-freq inputs individually
with a speaker level signal - results: the woofer works fine, and the
horn driver produces no sound whatsoever. Did the same on the
functioning PM-15 and all components produced output fine.
3) I swapped out xovrs with the fully functioning PM-15 to confirming
normal signal to both the woofer and horn in both full-range and biamp
mode through the xover. All components work fine, confirming the xover
is OK.
4) With the xover removed from the errant PM-15, I fed the individual
woofer and the driver terminals directly with a speaker level signal -
results: the woofer works fine, and the horn driver produces no sound
whatsoever.
Pretty much tells me the horn driver of the errant PM-15 has gone for
the "Big Sleep"
>
>
>
>..... Phil
>
>
>
>
>
0jun...@bellsouth.net
On 2008-06-21 foods...@linkline.com said:
>I would recommend a non-Carvin replacement of the entire cabinet as
>well as any other Carvin cabinets you may have. Possibly one of the
>worst recognizable brand name boxes on the market. Low build
>quality, low component quality, lousy frequency response, and poor
>output. Putting high quality components in would be a waste of
>money.
PEavey is a step up.
Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider
Eeyore
-SG- wrote:
What exit size and nominal rating are they ?
P-Audio do some pretty credible drivers for reasonable money.
Graham
Eeyore
Eeyore
-SG- wrote:
> Pretty much tells me the horn driver of the errant PM-15 has gone for
> the "Big Sleep"
Ever considered investing in this thing called a digital multi-meter ?
Really cheap on ebay.
Graham
0jun...@bellsouth.net
should put money elsewhere. USed PEvaey would be a step up
for him.
Other brands much more suitable, but ...
THis is the bottom feeder world we're talking about here.
Rupert
wrote:
Unless it's the bi-amp version where the drivers can be processed
separately, it's likely any replacement driver won't operate optimally
with the passive crossover (assuming Carvin actually made an attempt
to build a proper crossover network to match the components). Of
course, I'm sure you already know this. How about it Silvio, is it the
bi-amp version or the full range passive?
Rupert
-SG-
<foods...@linkline.com> wrote:
Hoping I understand Rupert's question, What I have are not the powered
(built-in amps) version. They are passive, but bi-amp capable - with a
switch to take them from full-range to biamp mode.
Speculation on the Carvin forums is that the compression driver itself
was made for Carvin by B&C based on their DE200 model:
1" Throat High Freq. Driver
8 Ohms - 106dB SPL
50 Watts AES Standard
100 Watts Program
1.0kHz - 18kHz
I've looked for alternative manufacturers and have not been able to
match the frequency response range / power / sensitivity ratings at a
resonable cost.
I think maybe I'll just call Carvin tomorrow and see if I can get a
pair of replacement diaphrams for my drivers cheap - their customer
service has been very responsive to me in the past. I certainly agree
that spending ~$100 on a compression driver for a cab that can be had
on the street for ~ $125 is complete lunacy. However, I'm not a sound
company - I'm just a guitar player (albeit with enough hard knocks
real-world bottom feeder sound reinforcement experience to make me
dangerous) trying to make ends meet. I have to try to stretch what I
have as far as I can before I can justify purchasing new (or at least
alternative) components. Amplified these days by the doubling of gas
and oil to even get to the gig.
BTW - someone asked if I knew what a digital multimeter was.
Yes I do.
Yes I used it - (a tried and true industry standard Fluke 179 true RMS
model).
It registers the standard 5.9 ohms through this specific woofer
(PS15-8) and zilch (ie. no measurable current ) through the
compression driver which should register between 6.4 and 6.7 ohms.
(and which apparently Carvin doesn't sell anymore).
liquidator
"-SG-" <steal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1bft54tqs9nsqh6bm...@4ax.com...
Take a look at the new Selenium 220- comes in thread or bolt on.
I know of some touring acts with those in the stage monitors...and they can
be bought for $45 or so each.
I am not a Selenium fan...but these are a step above the 210 , maybe a
couple. And the price can't be beat...they sound a lot better than either
the Eminence or Paudio at that price point. The Eminence sounds very peaky
and midrangey compared to the 220.
Eeyore
0jun...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com said:
> >> PEavey is a step up.
> >SCARY !
> YOu got that right, but if he's using Carvin then indeed he
> should put money elsewhere. USed PEvaey would be a step up
> for him.
> Other brands much more suitable, but ...
> THis is the bottom feeder world we're talking about here.
I have NO expereince of Carvin (you don't see it here - UK ), so I
didn't know it's that bad.
BTW, one that pops into my mind from time to time. Another brand you
don't really see here is Yorkville. How do you rate them ? I hear the
odd moderately pleasant comment here.
Graham
Eeyore
-SG- wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:46:16 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
> <foods...@linkline.com> wrote:
>
> Hoping I understand Rupert's question, What I have are not the powered
> (built-in amps) version. They are passive, but bi-amp capable - with a
> switch to take them from full-range to biamp mode.
>
> Speculation on the Carvin forums is that the compression driver itself
> was made for Carvin by B&C based on their DE200 model:
> 1" Throat High Freq. Driver
> 8 Ohms - 106dB SPL
> 50 Watts AES Standard
> 100 Watts Program
> 1.0kHz - 18kHz
1 inch 50W. Pretty standard drivers. I like B&Cs myself actually.
B&C make nice drivers and DON'T IIRC charge that much for diaphragms Unlike
SOME brands I could mention like JBL and EV !
If it takes a standard DE200 diaphragm (and they'd be nuts if it didn't), I'd
'rescue' it and put in some upline protection like a truck headlight bulb. 24V
70 W OSRAM (SYLVANIA) 64175 ought to do it.
http://www.interlight.biz/moreinfo.int?itemno=O-64175&title=OSRAM%20SYLVANIA%2064175%20O-64175
Failing that a P-Audio BMD-450 has an 80W rating. I use these in some
monitors. And they are NOT expensive.
http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=PAUBMD450&seeimage=YES&img_name=bmd450
Graham
Eeyore
liquidator wrote:
> I am not a Selenium fan...but these are a step above the 210 , maybe a
> couple. And the price can't be beat...they sound a lot better than either
> the Eminence or Paudio at that price point. The Eminence sounds very peaky
> and midrangey compared to the 220.
The P-Audios are 'OK' but the Eminence, agreed, forget it.
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product.asp?specific=johploc0 btw
P-Audio are now making improved magnet assembly replacements of the BMDs now
btw.
http://www.paudiothailand.com/showproduct.cfm?id=531
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/BM-D450.pdf
Not to be sneezed at. And I know their kit quite well and it's certainly well
made.
Graham
-SG-
<rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>-SG- wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:46:16 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
>> <foods...@linkline.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hoping I understand Rupert's question, What I have are not the powered
>> (built-in amps) version. They are passive, but bi-amp capable - with a
>> switch to take them from full-range to biamp mode.
>>
>> Speculation on the Carvin forums is that the compression driver itself
>> was made for Carvin by B&C based on their DE200 model:
>> 1" Throat High Freq. Driver
>> 8 Ohms - 106dB SPL
>> 50 Watts AES Standard
>> 100 Watts Program
>> 1.0kHz - 18kHz
>
>1 inch 50W. Pretty standard drivers. I like B&Cs myself actually.
>
>B&C make nice drivers and DON'T IIRC charge that much for diaphragms Unlike
>SOME brands I could mention like JBL and EV !
Yes - I'd love to go the upgraded diaphragm route if I can.
>
>If it takes a standard DE200 diaphragm (and they'd be nuts if it didn't),
>
One would hope - I will ask them when I call them in a few hours...
>
> I'd
>'rescue' it and put in some upline protection like a truck headlight bulb. 24V
>70 W OSRAM (SYLVANIA) 64175 ought to do it.
>http://www.interlight.biz/moreinfo.int?itemno=O-64175&title=OSRAM%20SYLVANIA%2064175%20O-64175
>
Funny that you mention that, as that's exactly the protection
configuration that used to be built-in to Carvin xovrs (their 1588s I
think) - back before they also jumped on the "give-em-less-for-more-$"
bandwagon of aggressively maximizing profits. I did plan on adding
that protection to the JBL JRX125 cabs in my bigger rock club rig. But
I agree it's should also be on my to-do list for all my cabs in
general. Shouldn't take much to find the appropriate
sockets/receptacle - and will save me a bunch of $ in the long run.
>
>
>Failing that a P-Audio BMD-450 has an 80W rating. I use these in some
>monitors. And they are NOT expensive.
>http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=PAUBMD450&seeimage=YES&img_name=bmd450
>
I'll look around for a frequency response curve on these. Reason being
my concern that the low end of the frequency range starts at 1.5K,
which implies to me that the actual usable lowest frequency would be
even higher. One chracteristic about the PM-15 cabs with stock drivers
is that they already have a relatively "scooped" sound. Works well
when they're mains on acoustic/electric dates. But I do have to boost
the eq by 6db-9db in the 800hz - 1.6khz range for them to have any
value as floor monitors in full on full-band larger-rig situations.
But you're right - all the other specs read that they are indeed a
step up from the B&C drivers.
I'll also investigate how good a deal $ I can get theBMD-450s for "on
this side of the pond". Loudspeakers Plus has them fopr $85 each
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product.asp?specific=johploc0
As I will have to aquire a pair, the Selenium D220Ti's can be had for
~$42 each from Loudspeakers Plus (Since I'm effectively changing the
HF response on one cab, I'll need to do the same to the other PM-15
for a matching pair).
(https://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product.asp?specific=1910)
For 4+, Parts Express has them even cheaper
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-271
The reasoning being that, since I'll be in the midst of "HF driver
hell" anyway, I may as well also replace the HF drivers in all 4 of my
JBL JRX-125s (along with protection circuits), as I'm not really happy
with their HF response in general, either. Figure I'll just do it all
in one fell swoop and be done with it.
But hopefully for now I can just get away with replacement diaphragms
on the Carvins...
Silvio
0jun...@bellsouth.net
On 2008-06-23 rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com said:
>0jun...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> Other brands much more suitable, but ...
>> THis is the bottom feeder world we're talking about here.
>I have NO expereince of Carvin (you don't see it here - UK ), so I
>didn't know it's that bad.
power amps, but I've had to put up with Carvin kit. PUre
junk.
sEen their mixers, and their speaker cabinets, didn't care
that much about either one.
>BTW, one that pops into my mind from time to time. Another brand you
>don't really see here is Yorkville. How do you rate them ? I hear
>the odd moderately pleasant comment here.
I've never really run into a lot of it. I'm a little leery.
I don't buy such kit myself, so the only time I encounter it
is with folks I end up working with, bands etc.
Years ago I had some PEavey cabinets that were eventually
aftermarketed with JBL components. Iirc they're still in
use somewhere in the midwest <g>. I haven't owned them
since the middle 1980's however.
I've seen the odd favorable comment reference Yorkville as
well but have *zero* personal experience with the gear.
Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider
Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.