Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Eeyore
The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are quite
distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of
obtaining a schematic is a problem.
I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote if I knew if they have
one. Does anyone know who does it ? Mind you, with the packaging long ago thrown
away, it's not very practical to send it the length of the country.
Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
Graham
Rupert
wrote:
For a cheap piece of kit like that I'd send it off to an ewaste
recycler and get another. Maybe even up the budget a little and get
something different.
Rupert
Eeyore
Rupert wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
>
> > Thread title is self-explanatory.
> >
> > The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are quite
> > distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of
> > obtaining a schematic is a problem.
> >
> > I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote if I knew if they have
> > one. Does anyone know who does it ? Mind you, with the packaging long ago thrown
> > away, it's not very practical to send it the length of the country.
> >
> > Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
>
>
> For a cheap piece of kit like that I'd send it off to an ewaste
> recycler and get another. Maybe even up the budget a little and get
> something different.
Because the rig needs to be in working order, we'll probably buy a replacement
tomorrow. However it would be useful to have a working spare.
Graham
Gareth Magennis
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46F9CD73...@hotmail.com...
Authorised Behringer Service Centre:
http://www.prolineaudio.co.uk/
Gareth.
Arny Krueger
message news:46F9AB8C...@hotmail.com
> Thread title is self-explanatory.
> The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where
> the LF outs are quite distorted. I dare say it would
> likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of obtaining a
> schematic is a problem.
In the US, the CX3400 sells for about $130. Most professional service
operations charge $60 or more per hour, often more like twice that. Just
getting an estimate will cost about the same or more than the piece is worth
as used equipment. And if you fix it, its value goes from zero to about the
same as what you paid to fix it, which is the same as the cost for a used
but working version of it. This leads to the question, why ever fix it?
The logical question is whether you buy new, buy something more expensive,
or buy used.
> I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote
> if I knew if they have one. Does anyone know who does it
> ? Mind you, with the packaging long ago thrown away, it's
> not very practical to send it the length of the country.
> Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
At the price points of Behringer's lower cost products, the only time you
repair them is in warranty, if you can do it at Behringer's expense.
Ron(UK)
as the diags for the power amps. unfortunately, I dont seem to have the
link anymore.
My dead Behringer count at the moment is two EP2500s[1], two V verbs, a
31 band graphic and several DI100,s (tho the DI`s were repairable). At
the price it is, I have learned to treat is as disposable gear.
[1] As recounted some time previously, one of the EP2500s was literally
a few days out of warranty and probably hadn't really earned it`s keep.
The other was 18 months old.
Ron(UK)
Phildo
> On Sep 25, 5:45 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Thread title is self-explanatory.
This is rich considering you were the one who illegally posted copyrighted
Behringer schematics online.
>> The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are
>> quite
>> distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty
>> of
>> obtaining a schematic is a problem.
You claim you are some sort of deity in the world of audio design yet
something as simple as that is beyond you? Go figure.
>> I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote if I knew if they
>> have
>> one. Does anyone know who does it ? Mind you, with the packaging long ago
>> thrown
>> away, it's not very practical to send it the length of the country.
>>
>> Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
You have to be kidding me !?!?!?
Behringer's customer service is the best in the industry.
You are just carrying on your psychotic vendetta against them because they
put your employer out of business leaving you out of a job.
Go back to stealing other people's designs and passing them off as your own.
Phildo
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"Phildo" <Ph...@phildo.net> wrote in message
news:5luu0vF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> On Sep 25, 5:45 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Thread title is self-explanatory.
>
> This is rich considering you were the one who illegally posted copyrighted
> Behringer schematics online.
>
>>> The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are
>>> quite
>>> distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty
>>> of
>>> obtaining a schematic is a problem.
>
> You claim you are some sort of deity in the world of audio design yet
> something as simple as that is beyond you? Go figure.
>
>>> I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote if I knew if
>>> they have
>>> one.
have you looked in the manual , the service centers are listed there
Does anyone know who does it ? Mind you, with the packaging long ago
>>> thrown
>>> away, it's not very practical to send it the length of the country.
yup way beyond you the package a one rack unit for post
with out factory box it simply can't be done can it, fucktard
>>>
>>> Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
and what exactly was behringers responce when you contacted them for a ra
number?
the only weak point in this chain is you
call behringer they will resolve this issue
thier service is way above yours
they will fix the unit while you p[erfer to let the unit remain out of
service because your too fucking lazy to properly follow the service
procedure
your a fucktard
george
Scott Dorsey
>Thread title is self-explanatory.
>
>The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are quite
>distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of
>obtaining a schematic is a problem.
You can't get one. But if it's BOTH LF outs, and the HF outputs are good,
you know it's not the power supply for the whole thing. And you know it's
something common to both LF outputs.
Check the supply voltages on all of the op-amps, then start looking at the
switch. Since you're looking for something that is common to both channels,
you have only a limited number of things to check.
>Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
Actually, the support in the US seems to be excellent, but they do not
want you fixing your own gear. They want you to send it to them, but
they are reasonable and prompt if you do so. The stuff is disposable
and not really intended for easy repair, too. I mean, my hourly bench
fee is about the cost of a new one.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Eeyore
Gareth Magennis wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > Rupert wrote
> >> Eeyore wrote:
> >>
> >> > Thread title is self-explanatory.
> >> >
> >> > The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are
> >> > quite distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the
> difficulty
> >> > of obtaining a schematic is a problem.
> >> >
> >> > I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote if I knew if
> >> > they have one. Does anyone know who does it ? Mind you, with the
> packaging long
> >> > ago thrown away, it's not very practical to send it the length of the
> country.
> >> >
> >> > Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
> >>
> >>
> >> For a cheap piece of kit like that I'd send it off to an ewaste
> >> recycler and get another. Maybe even up the budget a little and get
> >> something different.
> >
> > Because the rig needs to be in working order, we'll probably buy a
> > replacement
> > tomorrow. However it would be useful to have a working spare.
>
>
> Authorised Behringer Service Centre:
> http://www.prolineaudio.co.uk/
Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon Ł20-30 which doesn't totally surprise
me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I sort of
suspect. Then there's the carriage either way on top. It makes an authorised
repair look costly when you can buy the 2 way CX2310 (which is all that's
needed) for Ł61.50 new.
Graham
Eeyore
Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > Thread title is self-explanatory.
>
> > The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where
> > the LF outs are quite distorted. I dare say it would
> > likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of obtaining a
> > schematic is a problem.
>
> In the US, the CX3400 sells for about $130. Most professional service
> operations charge $60 or more per hour, often more like twice that. Just
> getting an estimate will cost about the same or more than the piece is worth
> as used equipment. And if you fix it, its value goes from zero to about the
> same as what you paid to fix it, which is the same as the cost for a used
> but working version of it. This leads to the question, why ever fix it?
Because I hate to see waste. Besides, with a schematic I could probably fix it
inside 20-30 minutes which costs very little.
See also my response to Gareth.
Graham
Eeyore
"Ron(UK)" wrote:
> I have a feeling that the diags for the crossovers are on the same site
> as the diags for the power amps. unfortunately, I dont seem to have the
> link anymore.
Bum ! I was hoping you might be my salvation ! ;~)
Graham
Eeyore
Phildo wrote:
> > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >
> >> Thread title is self-explanatory.
>
> This is rich considering you were the one who illegally posted copyrighted
> Behringer schematics online.
THEY ARE NOT COPYRIGHT you illiterate MORON !
Graham
Eeyore
tbmo...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> and what exactly was behringers responce when you contacted them for a ra
> number?
Behringer don't have a UK operation.
I suppose I could try talking German to 'head office' ?
Graham
Phil Allison
"Scott Dorsey Utter Shithead Moron "
"Eeysore"
>
>>Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
>
> Actually, the support in the US seems to be excellent,
** There is simply ZERO " service support " from Behringer.
The vast majority of pro-audio suppliers provide good service support.
Learn to *** read** you POSTURING ASS !!!!!!!!!!!!!
> but they do not want you fixing your own gear.
** Asinine bullshit red-herring.
Behringer have no right WHATEVER to determine who is allowed to repair
the items they sell.
Only NAZIS think like Behringer.
> They want you to send it to them, but
> they are reasonable and prompt if you do so.
** BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!
Most folk's experience is the direct OPPOSITE !!
Particularly any living outside the USA.
> The stuff is disposable
> and not really intended for easy repair, too.
** Refusing to supply schems and spares makes the merely hard into
IMPOSSIBLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU FUCKWIT YANK CUNTHEAD
....... Phil
Eeyore
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Thread title is self-explanatory.
> >
> >The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are quite
> >distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of
> >obtaining a schematic is a problem.
>
> You can't get one. But if it's BOTH LF outs, and the HF outputs are good,
> you know it's not the power supply for the whole thing. And you know it's
> something common to both LF outputs.
My suspicion is something like an op-amp in the filter network that's died.
Identifying the right parts to probe from a schematic would make that task a lot,
lot easier, as it would for tracing the signal through the unit.
> Check the supply voltages on all of the op-amps, then start looking at the
> switch. Since you're looking for something that is common to both channels,
> you have only a limited number of things to check.
>
> >Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.
>
> Actually, the support in the US seems to be excellent, but they do not
> want you fixing your own gear. They want you to send it to them, but
> they are reasonable and prompt if you do so. The stuff is disposable
> and not really intended for easy repair, too. I mean, my hourly bench
> fee is about the cost of a new one.
The fact they don't allow local service agents access to schematics.is very poor
IMHO. It means you're automatically going to incur the considerable cost of return
P&P to some distant place even before they can even look at it.
Graham
John Williamson
equipment, unless specifically released into the public domain.
Similarly, any electronic design is copyright of the designer and may
also be the subject of patents, & any attempt to examine the finished
product and publish the resulting schematic is breach of that copyright
and/ or that patent.
There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support
copyright and patent laws.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
Phil Allison
"John Williamson"
>
> *Any* schematic is copyright of the designer/ manufacturer of the
> equipment, unless specifically released into the public domain.
** Copyright laws allow for " fair usage " .
Schematics are intended as service aids for those in a position to make use
of them.
So publication of one on a technical NG or web forum for the purpose of
discussion is ** fair usage**.
> Similarly, any electronic design is copyright of the designer
** Nonsense.
> and may also be the subject of patents,
** Extraordinarily unlikely.
> & any attempt to examine the finished product and publish the resulting
> schematic is breach of that copyright and/ or that patent.
** COMPLETE BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!
Any schem you generate yourself is copyright to YOU !!
The word " patent " means to ** REVEAL **.
YOU RIDICULOUS ASS !!
> There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support
> copyright and patent laws.
** None to support your asinine conclusions.
> Tciao for Now!
** Drop dead.
> John the Jerkoff
..... Phil
Scott Dorsey
Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Thread title is self-explanatory.
>> >
>> >The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are quite
>> >distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of
>> >obtaining a schematic is a problem.
>>
>> You can't get one. But if it's BOTH LF outs, and the HF outputs are good,
>> you know it's not the power supply for the whole thing. And you know it's
>> something common to both LF outputs.
>
>My suspicion is something like an op-amp in the filter network that's died.
>Identifying the right parts to probe from a schematic would make that task a lot,
>lot easier, as it would for tracing the signal through the unit.
Nahh, because you can trace backwards from the LF output jacks. There will
only be a couple op-amps in the whole low-pass network. Bad op-amps are
a possibility but I would check the switch or pot that sets the turnover
frequency before doing anything.
Look at the supply voltages with a really good voltmeter. Look for an
op-amp whose supply voltage is different than the others. This can either
be because the trace resistance is dramatically different OR because the
op-amp is pulling more or less current than the others. An op-amp that is
pulling a different amount of current is bad.
I have a tendency just to go through and socket all the op-amps in gear
like this, to make future repair much easier.
>The fact they don't allow local service agents access to schematics.is very poor
>IMHO. It means you're automatically going to incur the considerable cost of return
>P&P to some distant place even before they can even look at it.
This is typical of consumer electronics today. You won't get a schematic
for your cellphone or MP3 player either.
Phil Allison
"Scott Dorsey Geriatric Fucking Moron "
> I have a tendency just to go through and socket all the op-amps in gear
> like this, to make future repair much easier.
** Sockets for SMD op-amps ??
Get them from the same store that sells bicycles to fish, I suppose.
...... Phil
Ty Ford
Once you get back on your medication maybe you'll consider keeping your vile
verbiage inside your post instead of in the subject line.
At least that way we won't be inflicted by that miserably painful experience
you call your life.
Thanks
Ty Ford
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:23:57 -0400, Phil Allison wrote
(in article <5lv4qfF...@mid.individual.net>):
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU
Phil Allison
> Hey Phil,
** Never "hey" me - you pile of sub haman
ASD fucked, top posting CRIMINAL DUNG !!!!!!!
Do the whole planet a favour, top yourself now.
....... Phil
Eeyore
John Williamson wrote:
The law varies from country to country.
However since many Behringer products are slavish copies of their competition,
I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for something that's not theirs in
the first place !
Graham
Eeyore
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >> Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Thread title is self-explanatory.
> >> >
> >> >The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are quite
> >> >distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of
> >> >obtaining a schematic is a problem.
> >>
> >> You can't get one. But if it's BOTH LF outs, and the HF outputs are good,
> >> you know it's not the power supply for the whole thing. And you know it's
> >> something common to both LF outputs.
> >
> >My suspicion is something like an op-amp in the filter network that's died.
> >Identifying the right parts to probe from a schematic would make that task a lot,
> >lot easier, as it would for tracing the signal through the unit.
>
> Nahh, because you can trace backwards from the LF output jacks.
On double sided high density SMT pcbs ?
Get real Scott ! You should know very well that's not a practical task. 30 years ago or
so it was different for sure. You can't do that these days unless you have hours to
spare tracing it all out.
Graham
WillStG
wrote:
> The fact they don't allow local service agents access to schematics.is very poor
> IMHO. It means you're automatically going to incur the considerable cost of return
> P&P to some distant place even before they can even look at it.
Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their
designs....
Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Eeyore
Scott Dorsey wrote:
They are sold quite clearly as consumer items not professional.
Graham
Ron(UK)
I can`t seem to find any Behringer stuff there now? Maybe they`ve been
knobbled
Ron
Phil Allison
"WillStG"
> Eeysore
>
>> The fact they don't allow local service agents access to schematics.is
>> very poor
>> IMHO. It means you're automatically going to incur the considerable cost
>> of return
>> P&P to some distant place even before they can even look at it.
>
> Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their
> designs....
** ROTFL !!
Wot an imbecile.
....... Phil
Scott Dorsey
>>
>> Nahh, because you can trace backwards from the LF output jacks.
>
>On double sided high density SMT pcbs ?
>
>Get real Scott ! You should know very well that's not a practical task. 30 years ago or
>so it was different for sure. You can't do that these days unless you have hours to
>spare tracing it all out.
So buy a Rane AC-22. Two-sided board, through hole DIP construction with
standard op-amps, and the schematic is on the website.
Only problem with it is that the 1/4" phone jacks are prone to fail and
it uses a wall wart. I was originally a little alarmed at the pots used
for turnover frequency adjustment, but they actually track very well and
hold up well to abuse.
It ain't no Sumo or even an Orban but it's not bad at all. For some reason,
Rane stuff is distributed by Sennheiser in the UK.
There is really no reason to have high-density SMD stuff in something like
a simple third or fourth order crossover. There's plenty of space in there.
But honestly, even the SMD stuff isn't that hard. The ohmmeter makes it
possible to trace lines without even being able to see them.
Scott Dorsey
So is the Behringer stuff. What you are seeing is the consumer electronics
world expanding into the pro audio realm but carrying with it the methods
and attitudes of consumer electronics.
Phil Allison
>>
>>They are sold quite clearly as consumer items not professional.
>
> So is the Behringer stuff.
** What an evil, monstrous LIE !!!!!!!!!!!
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est a Pile of Crap "
** So is Scott Fuckwit Dorsey.
....... Phil
Steve King
news:0vqdnTx-j8sb-mfb...@comcast.com...
> Hey Phil,
>
> Once you get back on your medication maybe you'll consider keeping your
> vile
> verbiage inside your post instead of in the subject line.
>
> At least that way we won't be inflicted by that miserably painful
> experience
> you call your life.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ty Ford
>
>
Congratulations. You must be the last person in the world that hasn't
kill-filed Phil;-)
Steve King
Eeyore
WillStG wrote:
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > The fact they don't allow local service agents access to schematics.is very poor
> > IMHO. It means you're automatically going to incur the considerable cost of return
> > P&P to some distant place even before they can even look at it.
>
> Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their
> designs....
LMAO.
That IS probably what they're afraid of.
Graham
Eeyore
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Nahh, because you can trace backwards from the LF output jacks.
> >
> >On double sided high density SMT pcbs ?
> >
> >Get real Scott ! You should know very well that's not a practical task. 30 years ago or
> >so it was different for sure. You can't do that these days unless you have hours to
> >spare tracing it all out.
>
> So buy a Rane AC-22. Two-sided board, through hole DIP construction with
> standard op-amps, and the schematic is on the website.
>
> Only problem with it is that the 1/4" phone jacks are prone to fail and
> it uses a wall wart.
Aaaargghhh. A wall wart ! That's so unprofessional..
> I was originally a little alarmed at the pots used
> for turnover frequency adjustment, but they actually track very well and
> hold up well to abuse.
>
> It ain't no Sumo or even an Orban but it's not bad at all. For some reason,
> Rane stuff is distributed by Sennheiser in the UK.
>
> There is really no reason to have high-density SMD stuff in something like
> a simple third or fourth order crossover. There's plenty of space in there.
> But honestly, even the SMD stuff isn't that hard. The ohmmeter makes it
> possible to trace lines without even being able to see them.
But is still very time consuming.
Graham
Eeyore
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >> Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The fact they don't allow local service agents access to schematics.is very poor
> >> >IMHO. It means you're automatically going to incur the considerable cost of return
> >> >P&P to some distant place even before they can even look at it.
> >>
> >> This is typical of consumer electronics today. You won't get a schematic
> >> for your cellphone or MP3 player either.
> >
> >They are sold quite clearly as consumer items not professional.
>
> So is the Behringer stuff. What you are seeing is the consumer electronics
> world expanding into the pro audio realm but carrying with it the methods
> and attitudes of consumer electronics.
Is that an acceptable reason for them to intentionally withold schematics ?
There's a BIG difference. Very little in an mp3 player or cellphone is serviceable. As you
clearly understand that's not true of a simple crossover.
Graham
John Williamson
>> There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support
>> copyright and patent laws.
>
> The law varies from country to country.
>
> However since many Behringer products are slavish copies of their competition,
> I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for something that's not theirs in
> the first place !
>
As far as I know, the details vary, for instance what is fair use in one
place is not necessarily fair use in another. The principle remains,
though. If I design it, I own the copyright on the design, unless I
assign it to another person or company. If I patent it, I publish the
design & principle so that others can use the design & principle under
licence.
As for Behringer stuff being copies of their competition, if it's
patented, it can be licenced, otherwise, a "clean room" approach can be
used.
Admittedly, Behringer may not do this...
I would think, though, that just changing one component or dimension
*may* result in the courts considering it to be a new design, hence a
new copyright now exists for that new design. It depends how good your
lawyers are.
Most, if not all, IC maufacturers produce reference circuits which can
be used by anyone using that IC, so if both places use the same IC, is
it not possible they're both using the same reference design? Possibly
even modified the same way, even if the design teams are working
independently.
User interface is a different matter, in that you *could* claim there's
only one logical way to lay out the controls. The fact it "just happens"
to be the same way as Company X did it a while ago can be quite a field
day for the lawyers.
Didn't I read somewhere that Behringer were in trouble for copying stuff
anyway?
Scott Dorsey
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> So is the Behringer stuff. What you are seeing is the consumer electronics
>> world expanding into the pro audio realm but carrying with it the methods
>> and attitudes of consumer electronics.
>
>Is that an acceptable reason for them to intentionally withold schematics ?
Sure. It's financially not worth the trouble for them to distribute them.
They are in business to make money, and the way you make money selling
consumer products is to cut your costs to the bone and make your product as
general as possible so you can sell it in as many different places and ways
as possible.
>There's a BIG difference. Very little in an mp3 player or cellphone is serviceable. As you
>clearly understand that's not true of a simple crossover.
People don't service consumer products any more, even easily serviced ones.
People throw out TV sets because the plug is damaged. I don't like it either,
but it's the world we're in. You're talking about products with a two year
expected lifetime; repair infrastructure is not part of the business plan.
Phil Allison
"John Williamson Trolling Fuckwit "
> As far as I know, the details vary, for instance what is fair use in one
> place is not necessarily fair use in another.
** Bollocks.
> The principle remains, though. If I design it, I own the copyright on the
> design,
** Gobbledegook.
> If I patent it,
** Completely impossible.
Patenting requires originality, novelty and invention.
YOU are a totally clueless LYING PRICK
....... Phil
Phil Allison
"Steve Cunt "
** Someone needs to kill you - ASSHOLE !!
Dorsey cocksuckers are the LOWEST of scum.
...... Phil
Phil Allison
"Scott Dorsey = Grandiose, Lying, Septic Cunthead."
>
>>Is that an acceptable reason for them to intentionally withold schematics
>>?
>
> Sure. It's financially not worth the trouble for them to distribute them.
** Another completely STUPID LIE !!
...... Phil
Arny Krueger
news:fddqrn$894$1...@panix2.panix.com
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nahh, because you can trace backwards from the LF
>>> output jacks.
>>
>> On double sided high density SMT pcbs ?
>>
>> Get real Scott ! You should know very well that's not a
>> practical task. 30 years ago or so it was different for
>> sure. You can't do that these days unless you have hours
>> to spare tracing it all out.
>
> So buy a Rane AC-22. Two-sided board, through hole DIP
> construction with standard op-amps, and the schematic is
> on the website.
>
> Only problem with it is that the 1/4" phone jacks are
> prone to fail and
The Rane "Mojo Series" version of the same basic crossover has XLR
connectors. Model number is MX22 and it still shows up on eBay from time
to time. This appears to be a new one at a good price:
http://www.audiolines.com/product.php?productid=14324&cat=210&page=1
> it uses a wall wart.
No the RS-1 is not a wall wart. Rane uses a well-engineered, highly robust
cord wart. There are cables on either side, and it has heavy tabs for
screwing down into place.
http://www.amazon.com/Rane-RS-1-Power-Supply/dp/B0002IU02S
> I was originally a little alarmed
> at the pots used for turnover frequency adjustment, but
> they actually track very well and hold up well to abuse.
That's because the turnover control just taps off some DC to send to some
VCA that actually set the parameters for the state variable filters.
Arny Krueger
news:1190816871.3...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com
> On Sep 26, 9:25 am, Eeyore
> <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The fact they don't allow local service agents access to
>> schematics.is very poor IMHO. It means you're
>> automatically going to incur the considerable cost of
>> return P&P to some distant place even before they can
>> even look at it.
>
> Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to
> steal their designs....
The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX
part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal board.
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"John Williamson" <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:2oKdnb3wNd_i7mfb...@bt.com...
> Eeyore wrote:
>
>>> There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support
>>> copyright and patent laws.
>>
>> The law varies from country to country.
>>
>> However since many Behringer products are slavish copies of their
>> competition,
>> I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for something that's not
>> theirs in
>> the first place !
>>
> As far as I know, the details vary, for instance what is fair use in one
> place is not necessarily fair use in another.
Don't give any care to what G says
he has admitted to stealing qsc's mechanical designs and admitted to being
party to studiomaster stealing phase linear designs
he has sour grapes as he wants to believe that everybody steals , like he
did
when the matter comes up in court behringer has been found "innocent" every
time except once , that one time was more than 20 years ago and turned on
interpertation of patent law.
btw poo bear whom did behringer slavishly copy the deq2496 from?
your a fucktard
George
Spence
> I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote if I knew
if they have
> one. Does anyone know who does it ?
>
Try Pro Line Audio. As I'm writing this I'm offline, so can't check
address or anything, but I think they're 'up North' somewhere.
I had a PSU go in a 1204FX mixer. They would repair it, but it was 2
years old and the replacement PSU cost half the price of the mixer,
so I declined the offer.
--
Roger
Eeyore
John Williamson wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
>
> >> There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support
> >> copyright and patent laws.
> >
> > The law varies from country to country.
> >
> > However since many Behringer products are slavish copies of their competition,
> > I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for something that's not theirs in
> > the first place !
>
> As far as I know, the details vary, for instance what is fair use in one
> place is not necessarily fair use in another. The principle remains,
> though. If I design it, I own the copyright on the design, unless I
> assign it to another person or company.
That's certainly true in the UK (Copyright Design and Patents Act) but may not be true
elsewhere.
> If I patent it, I publish the design & principle so that others can use the design &
> principle under
> licence.
Actually, the government publishes it as part of the 'deal' with you.
> As for Behringer stuff being copies of their competition, if it's
> patented, it can be licenced, otherwise, a "clean room" approach can be
> used.
I'm not aware of them having any patents on the run-of-the-mill stuff I'm talking
about. It's all likely to be 'prior art' anyway.
> Admittedly, Behringer may not do this...
> I would think, though, that just changing one component or dimension
> *may* result in the courts considering it to be a new design, hence a
> new copyright now exists for that new design. It depends how good your
> lawyers are.
The UK law seems to exclude such a ruse. I forget how it's phrased but it seems to
embody a good common sense approach and as a consequence a frivolous change wouldn't
be an acceptable 'excuse' against breach of copyright.
> Most, if not all, IC maufacturers produce reference circuits which can
> be used by anyone using that IC, so if both places use the same IC, is
> it not possible they're both using the same reference design? Possibly
> even modified the same way, even if the design teams are working
> independently.
You won't find that many of those in typical mixers for example today though.
> User interface is a different matter, in that you *could* claim there's
> only one logical way to lay out the controls. The fact it "just happens"
> to be the same way as Company X did it a while ago can be quite a field
> day for the lawyers.
>
> Didn't I read somewhere that Behringer were in trouble for copying stuff
> anyway?
Again ? Not recently AFAIK. They got in trouble for breaking the US RF (FCC) emissions
law though.
Graham
Eeyore
Arny Krueger wrote:
> "WillStG" <wil...@aol.com> wrote
> > Eeyore wrote:
> >
> >> The fact they don't allow local service agents access to
> >> schematics.is very poor IMHO. It means you're
> >> automatically going to incur the considerable cost of
> >> return P&P to some distant place even before they can
> >> even look at it.
> >
> > Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to
> > steal their designs....
>
> The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX
> part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal board.
One of the Sekaku copies of the RMXs even used the same component references
throughout.
Graham
Eeyore
tbmo...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> Don't give any care to what G says
> he has admitted to stealing qsc's mechanical designs
I have neither admitted any such thing nor did any such thing ever happen.
A part of QSC's mechanical design simply gave me some good ideas which I
adapted. Besides, a fold in a steel panel to add rigidity is not a piece of
copyrightable intellectual property. It's clearly public domain / prior art /
'obvious'.
> and admitted to being party to studiomaster stealing phase linear designs
Likewise untrue. Mind you, since you applaud Behringer for copying QSC, it's
very two-faced of you to complain about Studiomaster doing something similar
(but done better - it was an improved version of a Phase Linear) 30 years ago
(before I worked for them btw).
Don't listen to what George says, he's one sick puppy who likes to conduct
vendettas against certain people who point out his two-facedness.
Graham
Arny Krueger
news:13fl37r...@corp.supernews.com
> "John Williamson" <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote
> in message news:2oKdnb3wNd_i7mfb...@bt.com...
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>
>>>> There has been case law on this subject in all
>>>> countries that support copyright and patent laws.
>>>
>>> The law varies from country to country.
>>>
>>> However since many Behringer products are slavish
>>> copies of their competition,
>>> I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for
>>> something that's not theirs in
>>> the first place !
>> As far as I know, the details vary, for instance what is
>> fair use in one place is not necessarily fair use in
>> another.
> Don't give any care to what G says
Oh Boy, someone wound George up again.
> he has admitted to stealing qsc's mechanical designs
No, but Behringer has come pretty darn close to doing that.
> and admitted to being party to studiomaster stealing phase
> linear designs
No, but Behringer has pretty well done exactly that with the EP 2500 and the
corresponding QSC RMX.
So what? The QSC RMX is based on patented technology whose patents have run
out. That means that the basic RMX circuit designs are in the public domain.
That is how the patent system works - the guy with the patent gets exclusive
rights for a certain number of years, and then the cat is out of the bag.
Mr.T
"Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:GYGdnV6mGrey52fb...@comcast.com...
> > Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to
> > steal their designs....
>
> The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX
> part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal
board.
Well you should at least be able to get a schematic for that one then :-)
MrT.
Mr.T
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46FA5BD1...@hotmail.com...
>Besides, with a schematic I could probably fix it
> inside 20-30 minutes which costs very little.
Without a schematic, many could do it as well, depending on the actual
fault.
Have you even looked yet?
MrT.
Mr.T
> Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon Ł20-30 which doesn't totally
surprise
> me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I
sort of
> suspect.
Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp.
How much do you charge per hour btw?
>Then there's the carriage either way on top. It makes an authorised
> repair look costly when you can buy the 2 way CX2310 (which is all that's
> needed) for Ł61.50 new.
So buy a new CX2310 and quit whinging. YOU have a choice!
MrT.
WillStG
>
> > "WillStG" wrote >
> > Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their
> > designs....
>
> ** ROTFL !!
>
> Wot an imbecile.
>
> ....... Phil
" Sarcasm is lost on you, Pinky... " <g>
Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon Ł20-30 which doesn't totally
> > surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is
> which I
> > sort of suspect.
>
> Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp.
You think so ?
Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous prices and one-off it's
only Ł0.52 !
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconductors/Amplifiers/TEXAS+INSTRUMENTS/TL072ACD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322
SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the price. The DIL version was
4p more in fact.
> How much do you charge per hour btw?
Depends whom I'm charging !
> >Then there's the carriage either way on top. It makes an authorised
> > repair look costly when you can buy the 2 way CX2310 (which is all that's
> > needed) for Ł61.50 new.
>
> So buy a new CX2310 and quit whinging. YOU have a choice!
It's not me who's doing the buying.
Graham
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >Besides, with a schematic I could probably fix it
> > inside 20-30 minutes which costs very little.
>
> Without a schematic, many could do it as well, depending on the actual
> fault.
> Have you even looked yet?
I can certainly do it as WELL. It'll probably take hours instead of a fraction
of an hour though, which was my point.
Graham
Arny Krueger
news:46facbf6$0$1028$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au
> "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:GYGdnV6mGrey52fb...@comcast.com...
>>> Well if they provided schematics, someone might try
>>> to steal their designs....
Seriously, the cheaper a product is, the less likely someone is going to
build one from parts.
>> The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only
>> cribs the QSC RMX part-for-part, but also uses the same
>> terminal numbers on the signal board.
>
> Well you should at least be able to get a schematic for
> that one then :-)
Right! ;-)
BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a schematic
has made its way to the public.
Mr.T
> > Have you even looked yet?
>
> I can certainly do it as WELL. It'll probably take hours instead of a
fraction
> of an hour though, which was my point.
Depends on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet?
MrT.
Mr.T
> > > Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon Ł20-30 which doesn't totally
> > > surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it
is
> > > which I sort of suspect.
> >
> > Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp.
>
> You think so ?
>
> Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous prices and
one-off it's
> only Ł0.52 !
>
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconductors/Amplifiers/TEXAS+INSTRUMENTS/TL072A
CD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322
>
> SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the price. The DIL
version was
> 4p more in fact.
So YOU work for nothing then?
Hard to find others willing to do the same though.
MrT.
Mr.T
> BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a
schematic
> has made its way to the public.
Do you have a link? I'd be interested in taking a look myself.
MrT.
Mr.T
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
BTW, I should have made clear I know the QSC schematics are at :
http://www.qscaudio.com/support/technical_support/schems1.htm
MrT.
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
>
> "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:GYGdnV6mGrey52fb...@comcast.com...
>> > Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to
>> > steal their designs....
>>
>> The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX
>> part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal
> board.
except in the power supply, protection and output circuts,oh and the
physical chassis is diffrent as well
so if you are comfortable in saying its exactly the same except for the
power supply, protection, output section and physical layout/chassis
then I would have to agree with you
george
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
and those shpould point out the diffrences in the powersuppy,
protection,output circut designs and layouts
unfortunatly some people feel that haveing a diffrent power section,
layout,protection,and output section not to mention diffrent physical
chasssis
is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp
george
>
>
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > > Have you even looked yet?
> >
> > I can certainly do it as WELL. It'll probably take hours instead of a
> fraction of an hour though, which was my point.
>
> Depends on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet?
I don't have it here yet.
Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how Behringer
assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other bits of their
gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to work on without a
schematic.
Graham
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like him
in thier gear
they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer business
and insure all repairs are quality
as well as incorporating any repair into a upgrade of the unit
face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear
if you want to get qualified apply to behringer to become a authorized
service center
or shut the fuck up
>
>
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > > > Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon Ł20-30 which doesn't totally
> > > > surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it
> > > > is which I sort of suspect.
> > >
> > > Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp.
> >
> > You think so ?
> >
> > Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous prices and
> > one-off it's only Ł0.52 !
> >
> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconductors/Amplifiers/TEXAS+INSTRUMENTS/TL072A
> CD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322
> >
> > SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the price. The DIL
> > version was 4p more in fact.
>
> So YOU work for nothing then?
Pardon ?
If you're just going to make stupid comments, don't expect any further response.
Graham
Phil Allison
tbmo...@peoplepc.com>
>
> no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like
> him in thier gear
> they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer
> business and insure all repairs are quality...
** Asinine bullshit red-herring.
Behringer have no right WHATEVER to determine who is allowed to repair
the items they sell.
Only NAZIS think like Behringer.
And George Gleeson.
........ Phil
Eeyore
tbmo...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
> > "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote
> >
> >> > Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to
> >> > steal their designs....
> >>
> >> The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX
> >> part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal
> > board.
>
> except in the power supply, protection and output circuts,oh and the
> physical chassis is diffrent as well
> so if you are comfortable in saying its exactly the same except for the
> power supply, protection, output section and physical layout/chassis
> then I would have to agree with you
Bollocks.
The power supply, protection and output section are identical to QSC's. Just
because they laid out the pcb differently and because it may look slightly
cosmetically different doesn't make it NOT a copy.
You're an ignorant and bigoted fuckwit Gleason.
Graham
Eeyore
tbmo...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote
> > "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote
> >> "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote
> >>
> >> > BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a
> >> schematic has made its way to the public.
> >>
> >> Do you have a link? I'd be interested in taking a look myself.
> >
> > BTW, I should have made clear I know the QSC schematics are at :
> > http://www.qscaudio.com/support/technical_support/schems1.htm
> >
> > MrT.
>
> and those shpould point out the diffrences in the powersuppy,
> protection,output circut designs and layouts
> unfortunatly some people feel that haveing a diffrent power section,
> layout,protection,and output section not to mention diffrent physical
> chasssis
> is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp
They're NOT different you blind lying idiot.
Graham
Eeyore
tbmo...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear
And YOUR 'qualifications' are ?????
I was *designing*, never mind repairing, pro-audio 35 years ago.
Graham
Mr.T
<tbmo...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:13fm2hi...@corp.supernews.com...
> and those shpould point out the diffrences in the powersuppy,
> protection,output circut designs and layouts
> unfortunatly some people feel that haveing a diffrent power section,
> layout,protection,and output section not to mention diffrent physical
> chasssis
> is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp
Well probably not enough to stop you using most of the QSC schematic anyway.
And QSC does far more for their customers than Behringer in that regard.
MrT.
Mr.T
<tbmo...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:13fm2nt...@corp.supernews.com...
> no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like
him
> in thier gear
> they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer
business
> and insure all repairs are quality
> as well as incorporating any repair into a upgrade of the unit
> face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear
> if you want to get qualified apply to behringer to become a authorized
> service center
> or shut the fuck up
Whilst being a big supporter of Behringers value for money, I simply can't
agree with you on this.
There are only two reasons for with holding service information.
1. To force you to pay more for repairs from a small number of "authorised
agents".
2. To "encourage" you to throw it away and buy a new one.
It simply doesn't wash to say that the cheapest gear on the market needs the
highest standards of service support!
If someone attempts a repair, and cocks it up, option 2 is still available
:-)
MrT.
Mr.T
> Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how Behringer
> assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other bits of
their
> gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to work on
without a
> schematic.
You *know* no such thing. Faulty switches, loose wires etc. are usually easy
to fix without a schematic, as are many other obvious things.
But hey, if you'd rather make dozens of posts rather than simply pull it
apart and look, I sure don't care.
MrT.
Mr.T
*You're* the one making stupid comments about the cost of repairs WITHOUT
including labour charges!
Obviously YOU don't employ anyone to run a business.
MrT.
Romeo Rondeau
I'm not sure that Behringer is the cheapest anymore, Alto is giving them
a run for their money :-)
Arny Krueger
message news:46FAD8A1...@hotmail.com>>> Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon £20-30 which
>>> doesn't totally surprise me but seems a lot for an
>>> op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I sort of
>>> suspect.
>>
>> Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp.
>
> You think so ?
>
> Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous
> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconductors/Amplifiers/TEXAS+INSTRUMENTS/TL072ACD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322
>
> SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the
> price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact.
>
>
>> How much do you charge per hour btw?
>
> Depends whom I'm charging !
The point is that replacing SMT parts can be a very non-trivial task,
compared to replacing an ordinary leaded part.
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> <tbmo...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
>
> > no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like
> > him in thier gear
> > they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer
> > business and insure all repairs are quality
> > as well as incorporating any repair into a upgrade of the unit
> > face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear
> > if you want to get qualified apply to behringer to become a authorized
> > service center or shut the fuck up
>
> Whilst being a big supporter of Behringers value for money, I simply can't
> agree with you on this.
> There are only two reasons for with holding service information.
> 1. To force you to pay more for repairs from a small number of "authorised
> agents".
One per entire country it seems, meaning most repairs will attract huge P&P
costs.
> 2. To "encourage" you to throw it away and buy a new one.
Exactly. I couldn't put it better myself.
> It simply doesn't wash to say that the cheapest gear on the market needs the
> highest standards of service support!
It's the kind of thing a crackhead would say.
> If someone attempts a repair, and cocks it up, option 2 is still available
> :-)
Always.
Graham
Arny Krueger
message news:46FB0D33...@hotmail.com
> tbmo...@peoplepc.com wrote:
>> face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear
Methinks that George is projecting his personal technical inadequacies,
again.
> And YOUR 'qualifications' are ?????
> I was *designing*, never mind repairing, pro-audio 35
> years ago.
Give George some slack - he was probably doing what he does best, which
seems to be over-consuming and over-the-top complaining, 35 years ago. ;-)
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how Behringer
> > assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other bits of
> > their gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to work on
> > without a schematic.
>
> You *know* no such thing.
Yes I do.
> Faulty switches, loose wires etc. are usually easy
> to fix without a schematic, as are many other obvious things.
The problem is not a loose wire or a faulty switch.
Graham
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> *You're* the one making stupid comments about the cost of repairs WITHOUT
> including labour charges!
I have not made any such comment.
Stop misrepresenting what I said.
Graham
Arny Krueger
message news:f3KKi.2668$6p6....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net
I'm not sure that Behringer has ever been the cheapest. For example,
compare an ADA 8000 to a SM Pro audio PR8MKII w/ PR8MIIA. They are both
basically 8-channel mic preamps with ADAT interfaces, but the construction
and reliability of the ADA8000 is IME worlds ahead.
Mr.T
Sorry, where exactly was the labor cost in what you wrote again?
>> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp.
>
> You think so ?
>
> Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous
> prices and one-off it's only £0.52 !
>
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconductors/Amplifiers/TEXAS+INSTRUMENTS/TL072A
CD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322
>
> SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the
> price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact.
I can't seem to spot it no matter how hard I look!
MrT.
Arny Krueger
Unfortunately, My recollection is that I never had a link. I seem to recall
that I obtained it as a download from one of the audio-related newsgroups
that specializes in schematics and pictures. The interchanges that pointed
to it are in the AAPLS archives.
Your earlier comment that the readily available schematics for the QSC RMX
series being sufficient for use in the repair of an EP 2500 is actually
*that* applicable!
Mr.T
> I'm not sure that Behringer has ever been the cheapest. For example,
> compare an ADA 8000 to a SM Pro audio PR8MKII w/ PR8MIIA. They are both
> basically 8-channel mic preamps with ADAT interfaces, but the construction
> and reliability of the ADA8000 is IME worlds ahead.
But is the price?
IME your hard pressed to find anything cheaper in Australia, no matter how
much worse. (given similar features at least)
Note I do not automatically assume a correlation between price and quality,
as many people mistakenly do.
That's why I buy Behringer gear myself for some applications.
MrT.
Mr.T
> > > Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how
Behringer
> > > assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other bits of
> > > their gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to
work on
> > > without a schematic.
> >
> > You *know* no such thing.
>
> Yes I do.
Now you claim to be a Psychic as well, since you admitted you have yet to
look at it.
And those more intelligent people know psychics are charlatans!
> The problem is not a loose wire or a faulty switch.
You may be right. You may even find out when you've had a look!
MrT.
Mr.T
> >> BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products
> >> for which a schematic has made its way to the public.
>
> > Do you have a link? I'd be interested in taking a look
> > myself.
>
> Unfortunately, My recollection is that I never had a link. I seem to
recall
> that I obtained it as a download from one of the audio-related newsgroups
> that specializes in schematics and pictures. The interchanges that
pointed
> to it are in the AAPLS archives.
>
> Your earlier comment that the readily available schematics for the QSC RMX
> series being sufficient for use in the repair of an EP 2500 is actually
> *that* applicable!
Fair enough, I was just interested in checking the differences myself, but
I'm sure you are probably quite correct.
MrT.
tbmo...@peoplepc.com
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
your assuming thngs that simply arnt supported by the facts
the main reason they want to have equipment serviced by authorized agentsis
to insure the quality of the work.
the secoond reason is if a fail is found repeatedly that the fix will become
a design change
again its about the quality control
anything else is speculation, I have had lots of conversations and
experiance with behringers customer service
its really world class.
george
>
Phildo
>>
>> Phildo wrote:
>>
>>>> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Thread title is self-explanatory.
>>> This is rich considering you were the one who illegally posted
>>> copyrighted
>>> Behringer schematics online.
>>
>> THEY ARE NOT COPYRIGHT you illiterate MORON !
Actually they are. You posted them illegally. Maybe those lawyers you
promised so faithfully to set on George and myself are too busy tied up with
defending you on that one which is why we haven't heard from them?
Phildo
Phildo
"John Williamson" <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:2oKdnb3wNd_i7mfb...@bt.com...
> Eeyore wrote:
>
>>> There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support
>>> copyright and patent laws.
>>
>> The law varies from country to country.
And in the UK (which is where you posted from despite the fact you seem to
live in cloud-cuckoo land) it is illegal.
>> However since many Behringer products are slavish copies of their
>> competition,
>> I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for something that's not
>> theirs in
>> the first place !
Which is why Behringer are paying £millions in settlements for all the
designs they copied - NOT !!!!
> Didn't I read somewhere that Behringer were in trouble for copying stuff
> anyway?
Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Eeyesore is just pissed because he used to steal designs for studiomaster
then pass them off as his own. Studiomaster went bust because they couldn't
compete with Behringer leading to him being put out of a job. Now he has a
psychotic Behringer fixation following his very public nervous breakdown.
Phildo
Phildo
> BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a
> schematic has made its way to the public.
Yeah, because Eyesore illegally posted it online as part of his
anti-Behringer vendetta.
Phildo
Phildo
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
> Depends on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet?
He claims to be a god in audio design yet cannot even fix something as
simple as that.
Do you honestly think the legendary studiomater designer would lower himself
to look at Behringer gear?
He's only making a fuss because he hates Behringer after they put him out of
a job.
Phildo
Phildo
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
> So YOU work for nothing then?
He has to. He lost his job because of Behringer hence his constant bitching
about them.
Phildo
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > > *You're* the one making stupid comments about the cost of repairs
> > > WITHOUT including labour charges!
> >
> > I have not made any such comment.
> >
> > Stop misrepresenting what I said.
>
> Sorry, where exactly was the labor cost in what you wrote again?
When you're the client, I'll tell you my rate.
Graham
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >
> > Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous
> > prices and one-off it's only £0.52 !
> >
> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconductors/Amplifiers/TEXAS+INSTRUMENTS/TL072A
> CD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322
> >
> > SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the
> > price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact.
>
> I can't seem to spot it no matter how hard I look!
Don't you believe me ?
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconductors/Amplifiers/TEXAS+INSTRUMENTS/TL072CP/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1106015
Graham
Arny Krueger
news:13fm2hi...@corp.supernews.com
> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
>>
>> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
>>> "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
>>> news:57ydnaqHkszmcmfb...@comcast.com...
>>>> BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products
>>>> for which a
>>> schematic has made its way to the public.
>>> Do you have a link? I'd be interested in taking a look
>>> myself.
>> BTW, I should have made clear I know the QSC schematics
>> are at :
>> http://www.qscaudio.com/support/technical_support/schems1.htm
IMO, they are close enough to use to repair an EP 2500! There are some
trivial differences in parts layout, but that's about it.
> and those should point out the differences in the
> power suppy, protection,output circut designs and layouts.
Well George it is quite clear that you don't read schematics any better than
you compose simple English sentences. Those of us who are technically
literate enough to compare the schematics of the RMX EP2500 that were made
available to AAPLS some weeks ago to those of the corresponding QSC RMX
already know the answer, which you seem to continue to deny.
Here's the simple facts, which you were told about a few weeks back by
Graham, myself, and maybe one or two others:
(1) There are no appreciable differences in the schematics of the power
supplies. The power transformers appear to be signficantly different, with
the one in the RMX being physically larger. I think its a tad heavier.
(2) There are no differences at all in the protection circuits because the
schematics of the two amplifier circuit cards are practically identical,
right down to the numbering of the off-board connections.
(3) There are no differences at all in the circuit cards because the
schematics of the two amplifier circuit cards are as I just said practically
identical, again right down to the numbering of the off-board connections.
(4) The physical layout of the cards and the chassis include trivial
differences. Important parts of the chassis, such as the DIP switch that
programs the amplifier's operation, are identical.
> unfortunately some people feel that haveing a different
> power section, layout, protection,and output section not
> to mention diffrent physical chasssis
> is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp
Wrong George. To review, the power sections are well-described by the same
schematics, the protection circuits well-described by the same schematics,
and the output sections are well-described by the same schematics. Any
technician worth the title technican could easily use a RMX schematic to
repair an EP 2500. I'm sitting here wondering if a Behringer tech has ever
advised a customer to actually just do that!
George, this illustates one of your most severe mental problems - you can't
accept that people you are acquainted with actually know some aspects of
audio techology far better than you, and due to your bull-headed obstinacy
and going online intoxicated, you can't learn from them.
George, I'm sure that when you sober up in a day or two, you'll have
forgotten this whole interchange, just like you seem to have forgotten it
when it last happened a few weeks back on AAPLS. Remember, the weekend is
coming up and you have to be sober for the weekends when you actually have
work to do!
Arny Krueger
message news:46FB0C8A...@hotmail.com
> tbmo...@peoplepc.com wrote:
>
>> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote
>>> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote
>>>> "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products
>>>>> for which a
>>>> schematic has made its way to the public.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a link? I'd be interested in taking a look
>>>> myself.
>>>
>>> BTW, I should have made clear I know the QSC schematics
>>> are at :
>>> http://www.qscaudio.com/support/technical_support/schems1.htm
>>>
>>
>> and those shpould point out the diffrences in the
>> powersuppy, protection,output circut designs and layouts
>> power section, layout,protection,and output section not
>> to mention diffrent physical chasssis
>> is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp
>
Graham, I don't think George is lying because you have to correctly perceive
the truth to lie about it. :-(. The whole issue would probably be over
George's head were he sober, and he compounds the problem by posting drunk.
Eeyore
"Mr.T" wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > > > Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how
> > > > Behringer assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other
> bits of
> > > > their gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to
> > > > work on without a schematic.
> > >
> > > You *know* no such thing.
> >
> > Yes I do.
>
> Now you claim to be a Psychic as well, since you admitted you have yet to
> look at it.
No, I claim to have experience. Something you're clearly lacking. Have you
never for example asked a motor mechanic for help over the phone or do you
expect him to have to dismantle your car before he can venture a diagnosis ?
Now stop talking out of your ass.
Graham
Arny Krueger
> <tbmo...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
> news:13fm2hi...@corp.supernews.com...
>> and those shpould point out the diffrences in the
>> powersuppy, protection,output circut designs and layouts
>> unfortunatly some people feel that haveing a diffrent
>> power section, layout,protection,and output section not
>> to mention diffrent physical chasssis
>> is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp
> Well probably not enough to stop you using most of the
> QSC schematic anyway.
Agreed. The parts placements differ, so that means that some of the
pictorial diagrams in the QSC service manual don't apply to the EP 2500.
> And QSC does far more for their customers than Behringer in that regard.
Agreed. If QSC turned the tables and cloned the Behringer A500, then we'd
have good service documentation for it! ;-)
Eeyore
tbmo...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
> >
> > Whilst being a big supporter of Behringers value for money, I simply can't
> > agree with you on this.
> > There are only two reasons for with holding service information.
> > 1. To force you to pay more for repairs from a small number of "authorised
> > agents".
> > 2. To "encourage" you to throw it away and buy a new one.
> >
> > It simply doesn't wash to say that the cheapest gear on the market needs
> > the highest standards of service support!
> > If someone attempts a repair, and cocks it up, option 2 is still available
>
>
> that is not in line with the conversations I have had with behringer
> your assuming thngs that simply arnt supported by the facts
> the main reason they want to have equipment serviced by authorized agentsis
> to insure the quality of the work.
Well of course they'd SAY that !
You're a gullible crackhead.
Graham
Eeyore
Phildo wrote:
> > Eeyore wrote:
> >> Phildo wrote:
> >>>> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thread title is self-explanatory.
> >>> This is rich considering you were the one who illegally posted
> >>> copyrighted
> >>> Behringer schematics online.
> >>
> >> THEY ARE NOT COPYRIGHT you illiterate MORON !
>
> Actually they are. You posted them illegally.
Utter drivel.
Graham
Arny Krueger
news:5m1fv8F...@mid.individual.net
BTW Phildo, aren't you about ready to fall off your meds, and write another
poison pen letter about me to the pastor of the church where I serve?
Arny Krueger
Phildo, just like you lost your job due to Mackie, hence your constant
complaining about them? I don't think so!