mixing desk
david liles
Mackie 24.4 board (cause it certainly isn't a desk) and when i bring up
bottom end on the fader my channel will start to clip right before I get
close to the sound i want. I'm not clipping the amps but when i can get it
tight and thumpy my channels clip intermittantly i have basically been
getting a good sound but the clipping drives me crazy.vocals are doing the
same i need to know if anyone can offer an idea on a 24 channel 4 buss desk
that is still affordable since i'm basically a 350 a weekend guy please dont
flame me for the makie i worked at a mackie dealer when i got it at ten over
cost and had to have 24 channels that night. i am compressing the drum and
vocal subs via inserts and using berringer mutigate and ultracurve eq with
bbe 862 on mains very local stuff but not terrible for what i do. also would
like to thank everyone for the good advice i have recieved lurking the past
6 months or so
Key Audio (Kenneth Kareta)
Have You tried negative EQing to save headroom?
Instead of turning up the bass on the channel,
EQ out the crud with the swept mid, that will save you a few DB in the mix amp.
Also try running your channel gains lower, and your subgroups and mains out a
little hotter,
That's why they are there.
If after that, You don't have enough headroom,
I suggest these units:
A&H GL2200/3300
http://www.allen-heath.com/products/gl2k2.html
http://www.allen-heath.com/products/gl3k3.html
Yamaha MC2404II / GA2412 / MX400-24
http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/DsplyModel/?gLMC00008MC2404II
http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/DsplyModel/?gLMC00008GA24/12
http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/DsplyModel/?gLMC00008MX400-24
Phildo
david liles <d...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:wOks4.239$vh....@cletus.bright.net...
> i need to know if anyone can offer an idea on a 24 channel 4 buss desk
> that is still affordable since i'm basically a 350 a weekend guy please
Mackie's have a real problem with headroom.
Try Allen and Heath or Spirit by soundcraft. I'd go with the A&H myself.
Phildo
George Gleason
a
> Mackie 24.4 board (cause it certainly isn't a desk) and when i bring up
> bottom end on the fader my channel will start to clip right before I get
> close to the sound i want. I'm not clipping the amps but when i can get it
> tight and thumpy my channels clip intermittantly i have basically been
> getting a good sound but the clipping drives me crazy.vocals are doing the
desk
> that is still affordable since i'm basically a 350 a weekend guy please
> flame me for the makie i worked at a mackie dealer when i got it at ten
over
> cost and had to have 24 channels that night. i am compressing the drum and
> vocal subs via inserts and using berringer mutigate and ultracurve eq with
> bbe 862 on mains very local stuff but not terrible for what i do. also
would
> like to thank everyone for the good advice i have recieved lurking the
past
> 6 months or so
>
any thing that goes to subs on the l/r faders .Instead dump them onto a
prefade aux then take the aux to a xover or a 31 band with all upper
freq.(over 150hz) cut at max .this has three advantages 1 it keeps some big
signal out of the mix buss giving you more headroom on the left /right
busses and 2 gives you better control of your bass/sub signal as the
adjustment of the prefade aux does not affect the main outs 3 it keeps vox
or guitar or anything you want out of the subs giving you a cleaner mix with
the headroom you need .Thank you bm...@yahoo.com
Mike Borkhuis
a
> Mackie 24.4 board (cause it certainly isn't a desk) and when i bring up
> bottom end on the fader my channel will start to clip right before I get
> close to the sound i want. I'm not clipping the amps but when i can get it
> tight and thumpy my channels clip intermittantly i have basically been
> getting a good sound but the clipping drives me crazy.vocals are doing the
You might want to look at how you're setting you channel trims... True,
the Mackie boards are not the best, but if you take care in setting you
levels, you shouldn't have a problem cliping the individual channels.
Mike Borkhuis
Worship Technology
david liles
accordance to amount of signal given i should mention that i am running a
fairly heavy guitar band and while they think it sounds better than they
have ever had i know how much better i can sound it doesn't sound like i'm
getting dirt in the mains from this clipping but you know how much those
damn little(mackie)clip light are pissing me off thanx all
dave
Key Audio (Kenneth Kareta) <k...@keyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:38B219F2...@keyaudio.com...
SLM
Heath's a shot. GL 2000 Great bang for the buck.
Scott/SRC
"david liles" <d...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:wOks4.239$vh....@cletus.bright.net...
> I have a problem that i hope you can help with,Like most locals I'm using
a
> Mackie 24.4 board (cause it certainly isn't a desk) and when i bring up
> bottom end on the fader my channel will start to clip right before I get
> close to the sound i want. I'm not clipping the amps but when i can get it
> tight and thumpy my channels clip intermittantly i have basically been
> getting a good sound but the clipping drives me crazy.vocals are doing the
Key Audio (Kenneth Kareta)
I've got a much clearer image now ..
When You do achieve "headroom", the band will think
"More headroom? COOL now I can go get ANOTHER Marshall 100 watter!"
;-)
--
Ken Kareta, Owns,.
Key Audio Services
*"Where's Piglet Been?" Asked Pooh, as He opened the bag of pork rinds.*
groucho
there is One Club that I do sound at. on occassion. and here is a
discription Of the system
Mackie VLZ 24/4 sounds Like your desk? 2-18' Lows 2-10's Mids 2-2 " drivers
Each side..
amps. Bottoms 1 crown 3600 Mids 1AB international 1100A and Highs 1-Crown
CE1000
Running 2 of the berhenger X-2000 Crossovers? I think thats the model# it
says Super-X
ashley EQ's anyway I found The Cross Over the Key to running with the
Mackie Board...
I have the inputs set at unity(0) the low set to Max level.. the Mids set at
unity... and the highs set
at -2...... low-mid is crossed at 190 and the high-mid crossed at 1.9k..
and the system is killer On the Low End.... the Room holds close to 1000
people
with less than 3db notched at 100 and 125 On the EQ Mostly Flat across
the spectrum..
and I barely run the board at (0) with very little Bottom added to any
of the channels...
I dont get the channels anywhere near clip on the faders...
personally I would look closely at the Crossover settings....
tell me more about the system....
Neal (watamix) Newman
http://www.angelfire.com/nj/cozy/studio.html
D. Show
channels that were dumped on the EQ and not sent to the subs, I assume you
must put them somewhere. Please elaborate. Thanks. D. Show
George Gleason <ibm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6Lms4.14067$O43.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Shaun
> Sounds like an interesting concept but what becomes of the parts of those
> channels that were dumped on the EQ and not sent to the subs, I assume you
> must put them somewhere. Please elaborate. Thanks. D. Show
They still feed the L/R mix, or submasters, whatever you assign the post-fader
signal to. The aux send to the subs is a separate tap of the signal, so the
entire signal goes to the post-fader assignment, and the same signal from the
aux goes to the subs (through the eq killing all the highs).
I personally prefer to use a subwoofer aux send in post-fader mode, if there
are no VCA's, so the fader controls the channel level of the mains and the subs
at once.
--
Shaun Wexler,
Hellsgate Sound
Sherrie Gallanter
gain? I've found that setting "critical" for all following settings.
Maybe I'm a signal flow freak-with no pals-I don't know. Benn mixing 11+
years & running a sound co. in N. Ca. If your gain structure is
appropriately set-you shouldn't have problems.... EQ on the channel is
what's adding-subtracting the low-end frequencies....Perhaps reduce the
low end setting on the channel eq in the 200-250 Hz. range or if you
have a "selectable" pad or cut. If on a mackie-I suggest: Start w/input
level. Gert it good & hot but NOT OVER +#db for input. Then sculpt the
channel eq as you can-then you should use your outboard Behringer for
fine tuning, finally-BRING it UP into the subgroup & mix! :). If this
sounds "trite", it is NOT meant that way! I'm a female sound engineer
that took a "hard road" to get where I am now. What you do is ultimately
up to you. Best of luck!
SherBear
Peter Larsen
Hi Sherrie,
Sherrie Gallanter wrote:
[this must be a pro pos some thread about Mackie]
> Have you tried "starting over" so to speak, with each channel's input
> gain? I've found that setting "critical" for all following settings.
Of course it is.
> Maybe I'm a signal flow freak-with no pals-I don't know.
Dunno either, but I have been reading all those negative comments about
the Mackies wondering what the problem could be, until someone finally
explained that channel clipping when touching the channel Eq is what is
turning people off. It so happens that I know some guys who do classical
live location work with them, and they love them. And it is all a replay
of a discussion I had with one of them back in 1975-76, when the amateur
tape recordist club I am a member of built their own lil' 6-2, because
he had designed the electronics.
There may be other problems with the Mackie's in the context of this
newsgroup that I don't know about, but as I have previously said: there
are two "religions" about channel gain-headroom structure, one being the
dominant one, i. e. to assume that the channel fader will be at -10 dB
and then add 10 dB make-up gain after the channel fader. The concept of
doing this is that there is a room for some minor up and down tweaking
and to make a short time boost of the channel in case of a weaker source
that you do not want to re-align the input gain for. The flexibility of
this is what is likely to work best in the context of the type of mixes
done by the majority of the people around here.
The other "religion" about channel gain-headroom structure is to assume
that the channel fader will be open full throttle when signal from the
channel is wanted and only be used to fade a microphone out when it is
unused. There are some advantages in this.
First: all components of any kind can lead to some kind of sound
degradation, so from a purist's point of view having the channel fader
fully open is to not even have that component in the circuit. Whether
faders sound, and whether they should is a different issue, let's leave
that to rec.audio.opinion, but if it is bypassed it sure can't.
Next; the style of mixing when using a pair of main microphones and some
support microphones is drastically different. There will be an image
shift with even very small level adjustments of the support microphones,
so the adjustment of their level is about blending them in in the right
way, and then keeping it just like that. With or without time-delay on
them, you can only open them so and so much, and not a single dB more.
And to have that repeatable it is preferable to just open all channel
faders full throttle.
It appears that the Mackies could be constructed with the latter mode of
use in mind or/and that they are constructed by an "electronics guy"
rather than by a traditionalist "mixing guy". There is no way around it:
people who are complaining about channel overload have the channel gain
set too high. That said, it is not so simple as to say or read "them
stupid", because the operational requirement of ease of channel level
tweaking is still a valid one and it is a darn good point that "just one
mixer that behaves differently from all them others" can be a source of
constant confusion and operator error, just as a car with the
accelerator in the middle and the brake to the right might so be, it
could be a mighty fine car, but it would still require getting used to.
> SherBear
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
--
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* This posting handcrafted by Peter Larsen, pla...@teliamail.dk *
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