Please assist diagnosing my MixWizard
Kees Jan Koster
I have a problem with my MixWizard 14:4:2, where the right output
channel is intermittent. The repairshop told me they'd tested the mixer
for days and it never gave them trouble, but I use it at home to play a
CD and in track 2 the right channel dips and drops.
I also found why the repair shop could not reproduce the problem:
pressing the channel faders up will bring the right channel back
on-line.
To avoid another pointless "here it is, still broken", followed by "we
can't reproduce this"--cycle I would like to hear from you to see if you
can help me pin down the problem better before handing it in for final
repairs.
Symptoms are that after playing for a few minutes, the right master
channel will lose top end and become muffled, then drop away entirely.
The right LED bar will drop too, reflecting the change in level.
Tapping the housing sharply will bring the channel back on-line.
Increasing the signal to the right mix bus to about 0dB will bring the
channel back on-line.
There is no distortion when the channel is on-line, save the frequent
dips in the high portion of the frequencies in the right channel.
IIRC an EQ inserted on the right channel will also get no more signal,
but I'd have to check to make sure.
This is not a channel problem. I use the mixer by using sub 3/4 as
master section. Swapping the L/R connection to my speakers will move the
problem to the other speaker.
Anyone seen this?
Yours,
Kees Jan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Kees Jan Koster e-mail: kjkoster "at" kjkoster.org
www: http://www.kjkoster.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Life is uncertain; eat dessert first.
Mike Faithfull
news:3EF783D4...@kjkoster.org...
> Dear All,
>
> I have a problem with my MixWizard 14:4:2, where the right output
> channel is intermittent. The repairshop told me they'd tested the mixer
> for days and it never gave them trouble, but I use it at home to play a
> CD and in track 2 the right channel dips and drops.
(details snipped ..).
Sounds like a dry joint ... that can be difficult to find.
Mike
$yw5....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net:
Mix insert sockets? A Sprained or dirty TRS jack can sometimes do that kind
of stuff. Try Shorting the tip and ring of a jack plug & inserting it into
the insert point.
Phil Allison
"Mike Faithfull" <mouse_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:P_LJa.2929$yw5....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
** Also the IDC plugs can do this - the bane of every Mackie.
............... Phil
Blind Joni
>>> I have a problem with my MixWizard 14:4:2, where the right output
>>> channel is intermittent. The repairshop told me they'd tested the mixer
>>> for days and it never gave them trouble, but I use it at home to play a
>>> CD and in track 2 the right channel dips and drops.
>>
>> (details snipped ..).
>>
>> Sounds like a dry joint ... that can be difficult to find.
>>
>>
>
>Mix insert sockets? A Sprained or dirty TRS jack can sometimes do that kind
>of stuff. Try Shorting the tip and ring of a jack plug & inserting it into
>the insert point.
I have these kinds of problems with a 16x2 DX...intermittent L/R outputs which
seems to be internal..and jacks that won't hold the 1/4" plugs..a big PITA for
me..plus a malfuntioning input..intermittent pulsing noise..sounds like a bad
cap..on the Digital effects. This is a fixed studio install..never moved and
all kinds of problems..out of warrenty of course..but these things started
early on.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
George Gleason
them and have avoided the Gl / mix series a& H ever since
many cracked solder joints the connection to the output xlr's were
especially bad
I do not know if this is similar to your problem but I have found this qc
problem faily typical of A&H
My Icon has been wonderful except for premature failure of the faders(2 year
s they all needed replacment)
George
Mark
n...@all.com says...
--
Mark
The truth as I perceive it to be.
Your perception may be different.
Kees Jan Koster
>
> > > I have a problem with my MixWizard 14:4:2, where the right output
> > > channel is intermittent. The repairshop told me they'd tested the mixer
> > > for days and it never gave them trouble, but I use it at home to play a
> > > CD and in track 2 the right channel dips and drops.
> >
> > (details snipped ..).
> >
> > Sounds like a dry joint ... that can be difficult to find.
>
> ** Also the IDC plugs can do this - the bane of every Mackie.
>
It's just back from the repair shop. They told me they checked.
Kees Jan Koster
>
> > Anyone seen this?
> >
> I had so many intermittent problems with my GL2's and gl3's that I sold
> them and have avoided the Gl / mix series a& H ever since
>
Well, I'm not ready to sell mine. I work with GL2200 and GL3300 desks
every weekend and I have never seen the problem. Perhaps it's something
A&H reserved for the lower end desks? :)
Kees Jan Koster
>
> >> I have a problem with my MixWizard 14:4:2, where the right output
> >> channel is intermittent. The repairshop told me they'd tested the mixer
> >> for days and it never gave them trouble, but I use it at home to play a
> >> CD and in track 2 the right channel dips and drops.
> >
> > (details snipped ..).
> >
> > Sounds like a dry joint ... that can be difficult to find.
>
Indeed. The repair shop fixed a few of what they called probably dry
joints.
>
> Mix insert sockets? A Sprained or dirty TRS jack can sometimes do that kind
> of stuff. Try Shorting the tip and ring of a jack plug & inserting it into
> the insert point.
>
I doubt this is the problem. My mixer is less than a year old. I
regularly use the main inserts, so I'm pretty sure they are clean. Hey,
I've used many Deltas and 200B's, I can diagnose and work around bad
inserts points and sticky pots just fine. :-) It's just that this
problem isn't it.
Phil Allison
> I doubt this is the problem. My mixer is less than a year old. I
> regularly use the main inserts, so I'm pretty sure they are clean. Hey,
> I've used many Deltas and 200B's, I can diagnose and work around bad
> inserts points and sticky pots just fine. :-) It's just that this
> problem isn't it.
** Dont be a PITA - go try a stereo plug with the tip and ring linked.
Using the insert jack does NOT clean the shorting contact areas.
............ Phil
Phil Allison
Phil wrote:
> > ** Also the IDC plugs can do this - the bane of every Mackie.
> >
> It's just back from the repair shop. They told me they checked.
** So what !! - there is no possible way for a tech to check such a
thing until it happens on the bench.
............. Phil
Kees Jan Koster
>
> > I doubt this is the problem. My mixer is less than a year old. I
> > regularly use the main inserts, so I'm pretty sure they are clean. Hey,
> > I've used many Deltas and 200B's, I can diagnose and work around bad
> > inserts points and sticky pots just fine. :-) It's just that this
> > problem isn't it.
>
> ** Dont be a PITA - go try a stereo plug with the tip and ring linked.
>
I've already tried with an EQ inserted. Same symptoms.
>
> Using the insert jack does NOT clean the shorting contact areas.
>
I know. I have had this problem before with the aforementioned
Soundcrafts.
Kees Jan Koster
>
> > > ** Also the IDC plugs can do this - the bane of every Mackie.
> > >
> > It's just back from the repair shop. They told me they checked.
>
> ** So what !! - there is no possible way for a tech to check such a
> thing until it happens on the bench.
>
Good observation! And that is precisely why I am asking here. If I send
it in I'll get it back with the message: "no problems we can see".
Now, any idea what else this could be?
Phil Allison
> Dear Phil,
> Now, any idea what else this could be?
** Your questioning us here is utterly pointless Kees.
You do not need to know what the problem *might* be - you need to
know what it is.
Since it does not presently exist there is no answer to that
question.
Intermittent faults have to be seen happening by the tech - then
tracked down - then fixed.
.............. Phil
CareyD
>
> To avoid another pointless "here it is, still broken", followed by "we
> can't reproduce this"--cycle I would like to hear from you to see if you
> can help me pin down the problem better before handing it in for final
> repairs.
>
Hi Kees.
If you are still having problems with your MixWiz please email me
direct (carey....@allen-heath.com) and I shall try to help you run
through the diagnostics. If you need further help I can link you up
with our support team.
Regards,
Carey (A&H design)
George Gleason
> Dear George,
>
> >
> > > Anyone seen this?
> > >
> > I had so many intermittent problems with my GL2's and gl3's that I sold
> > them and have avoided the Gl / mix series a& H ever since
> >
> Well, I'm not ready to sell mine. I work with GL2200 and GL3300 desks
> every weekend and I have never seen the problem. Perhaps it's something
> A&H reserved for the lower end desks? :)
>
all I did was be one of the first users(and dealers) of the A&H stuff
I hated my GL3 it had many other issues besides the poor reliability
it had gain structure problems as well when using it at foh with monitor
mixes
George
joep
"CareyD" <carey....@allen-heath.com> schreef in bericht
news:dbeb448c.03062...@posting.google.com...
That might be a good option or...
Why don't you take the desk straight to the dutch ditributor, TM-audio or
rather A&T-services. They've got a great team of techs there and I'm sure
they'll help you find out what the problem is.
I've been there a few times with an "Amek Recall" that made a nasty fall and
they stripped the console completely and repaired the thing while I was
standing next to it and assisted a bit (as much as I could). They'd even
phone to England for advice at one point and...-as I stayed over for lunch-
invited me for lunch as their guest. I found that very good service.
Good luck with it
--
JOEP
We're only colleaguse if we can help each other
joep
"Kees Jan Koster" <kjko...@kjkoster.org> schreef in bericht
news:3EF83E9D...@kjkoster.org...
> Dear Joep,
>
> >
> > Why don't you take the desk straight to the dutch ditributor, TM-audio
or
> > rather A&T-services. They've got a great team of techs there and I'm
sure
> > they'll help you find out what the problem is.
> >
> company that told me they could not reproduce the problem.
>
> >
> > I've been there a few times with an "Amek Recall" that made a nasty fall
and
> > they stripped the console completely and repaired the thing while I was
> > standing next to it and assisted a bit (as much as I could). They'd even
> > phone to England for advice at one point and...-as I stayed over for
lunch-
> > invited me for lunch as their guest. I found that very good service.
> >
> direct-out mods). No complaints, other than that they could have spent a
> little more time looking.
>
> Kees Jan
>
I'm sorry to hear your experiences with this company aren't as good as mine.
I'm sorry I can't tell you more as others already did
Again, good luck
BOB URZ
Phil Allison wrote:
Pushing a insert jack in and out itself does not directly Physically touch the
shorting contact or normalling area. BUT, the motion of these contacts making
and breaking will sometimes clean enough crud off the contacts to make them
work again. Kind of like twisting a noisy
volume pot for a while and having it work again (for a short while anyway) No
long term solution. But pushing a jack in and out for 30 seconds or so may
bring it back to life enough to get though a gig. I have done it. It works more
often than not. Its not a repair, just a temporary work around. The only
permanent solution is to replace the jack, or to clean the contacts internally
which is usually not possible to do properly. If you can get an angle to the
contacts, try spraying some Cramolin in and work the jack in and out.
BOB
>
> ............ Phil
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Mark
phila...@optusnet.com.au says...
contacts.
Phil Allison
"Mark" <ZZZ...@whiskey-creek.net> wrote in message
> >
> Actually, running a plug in/out Does clean the shorting
> contacts.
>
** No way. It cleans only the areas the plug touches.
............ Phil
GK
"Mark" <ZZZ...@whiskey-creek.net> wrote
> >
> Actually, running a plug in/out Does clean the shorting
> contacts.
> --
That depends on the particular jack style used. The type used on the MixWiz
has very little wiping action, if any, when operated. Best way is to
disassemble the unit and remove the jack to clean it. At this point you may
as well replace it, but if there is no replacement handy, you can clean it
properly. A contact burnishing tool can be used if you have one or a plain
paper business card will work fine. Pry the contacts open just enough to
slip the tool between them and allow the contacts to close again, then move
the tool around to clean the contact using only the spring pressure of the
contact itself. It won't take much to clean the contact. Remove the tool and
give the contact a drop of deoxit and you probably won't have any more
trouble from it.
Now that I've said all of that, I'll also say that I'm skeptical about the
insert jack being the problem. IIRC, Kees has an unusual case configuration
for his MixWiz. The signal path for the insert jacks goes through the ribbon
cables for the jack pod. His ribbon cables are very slightly exposed and
stretched. Something may be happening with that. His case configuration also
allows stuff to drop straight into the jacks. The possibilities are endless.
Beating on it will only work for so long, then it will rebel and strike back
in its own way. If it was mine, I'd bust it open and clean the jack. If that
didn't work, I'd get a schematic and the 8 IC's necessary to change the
outputs to +4 dbu, since I'm going to be in there pretty deep anyway. While
waiting for the parts, I would devise a plan to divide and conquer the
problem.
GK
Kees Jan Koster
>
> Now that I've said all of that, I'll also say that I'm skeptical about the
> insert jack being the problem. IIRC, Kees has an unusual case configuration
> for his MixWiz. The signal path for the insert jacks goes through the ribbon
> cables for the jack pod. His ribbon cables are very slightly exposed and
> stretched. Something may be happening with that. His case configuration also
> allows stuff to drop straight into the jacks.
>
The problem existed after using the desk four times since I bought it
new. The signal dips are present even when I insert an EQ into the
insert points. Hardly a dirty insert socket problem. With Carey's help
I'm tracking narrowing it down to as little of the electronics as
possible. He is very helpful and knows his troubleshooting.
As for my case design: yes, it exposes the connectors to death from
above. All surfaces are slanted to avoid people placing glasses on the
desk to minimize the risk. This makes it safer than for example a Spirit
that has a horizontal surface to put the connectors in.
The safest solution would be to fold the connector pod under the desk. I
have used a mixwizard in such a configuration and it sucks big time. I
have had to tip the desk halfway the show to change an insert.
Unworkable, IMHO.
My case does not stretch the ribbon cables. Getting the desk into the
flightcase is a two-man job to avoid this problem. Once it's in place
there is no danger for the ribbon cables. They hang free and both the
pod and main body are fixed in place.
While I'm biased, I believe mine is the best case design for the
mixwizard I have seen to date. :-)
GK
> mixwizard I have seen to date. :-)
>
Well, no one has ever accused me of thinking outside the box. 8~)
Before I got a rack for mine, it traveled in a canvas bag in the belly of a
motor home. I had a broken solder joint on the fuse holder one time. I'm
glad it was easy to find because I had to fix it in a bar instead of doing a
sound check.
Good luck. Go forth. Divide and conquer.
GK
Saxology
"George Gleason" <g.p.g...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:c%VJa.18921$3o3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Kees Jan Koster" <kjko...@kjkoster.org> wrote in message
> news:3EF7F423...@kjkoster.org...
> > Dear George,
> >
> > >
> > > > Anyone seen this?
> > > >
> > > I had so many intermittent problems with my GL2's and gl3's that I
sold
> > > them and have avoided the Gl / mix series a& H ever since
> The gl2 became the mix series, the gl3 became the gl2000 then the 2200
> all I did was be one of the first users(and dealers) of the A&H stuff
> I hated my GL3 it had many other issues besides the poor reliability
> it had gain structure problems as well when using it at foh with monitor
> mixes
> George
>
>
Not for anything guys, but when I read this thread I was dumbfounded. All
you hear in this NG is how great A&H is and how bad Mackie is. Mackie is
cited for poor gain structure and being fragile. Now I see A&H have the
exact same problems. I bought a MixWiz to try based upon the "Euro-centric"
thinking in this NG. Personally, I like Mackie and Soundcraft. I will also
say that my Behringer is a tank compared to the Soundcraft. I would hope in
the future to see a more eq'ed opinion of manufacturers that isn't biased by
what we sell....
As for this problem, screw the shotgun methods of shorting plugs and WD40.
Get a schematic and a scope. Since the problem can be recreated easily
(that's a good problem as far as I am concerned), recreate it and follow the
signal chain. You'll be at the problem in no time at all. Pulling the
mixers apart is time consuming, with all the connectors and knobs, but it
isn't hard to do. Spend the time to open it, and the gold you seek will be
yours. Plus, you learn a lot about a product's design but looking under the
hood. The more you look, the more you will learn. Remember, it is nothing
that can't be repaired. You can't break it worse, it's already broke!
-Sax
GK
"Saxology" <Saxolo...@yahoo.com> wrote > >
> Not for anything guys, but when I read this thread I was dumbfounded. All
> you hear in this NG is how great A&H is and how bad Mackie is. Mackie is
> cited for poor gain structure and being fragile.
Now I see A&H have the
> exact same problems.
A&H mixers have random problems in different areas. Wackies have chronic
problems that appear in every one built. Not exactly the same.
I bought a MixWiz to try based upon the "Euro-centric"
> thinking in this NG. Personally, I like Mackie and Soundcraft.
Personal taste is such a subjective thing. Personally, I disdain Wackie. The
cheap Soundcrafts are almost acceptable if everything is working properly,
even though their EQ section is a bit weak.
I will also
> say that my Behringer is a tank compared to the Soundcraft.
Does the band sound like they are playing in that tank, too?
I would hope in
> the future to see a more eq'ed opinion of manufacturers that isn't biased
by
> what we sell....
I don't sell a thing, but have used about everything out there. I'd rather
use a PV mixer in a critical application than I would a Wackie. At least
then I would know what to expect.
>
> As for this problem, screw the shotgun methods of shorting plugs and WD40.
> Get a schematic and a scope.
Yeah, buy a $2000. scope to fix a $1000. mixer. That makes sense.
Since the problem can be recreated easily
> (that's a good problem as far as I am concerned), recreate it and follow
the
> signal chain. You'll be at the problem in no time at all. Pulling the
> mixers apart is time consuming, with all the connectors and knobs, but it
> isn't hard to do. Spend the time to open it, and the gold you seek will
be
> yours. Plus, you learn a lot about a product's design but looking under
the
> hood.
Like what? Say maybe something like if channel 8 has a problem, you can
remove just the channel 8 PCB on the MixWiz, maybe ship it to A&H if
necessary and still have all of the other channels operational. You can't do
that with the SC or Wackie.
> The more you look, the more you will learn. Remember, it is nothing
> that can't be repaired. You can't break it worse, it's already broke!
That's just BS. Some people can't even take the screws out without causing
further damage.
GK
Saxology
Well GK,
If A&H can't fix it and he can't either, I hope he throws it away in a
box with my address on it. I'll fix it.
I don't think you should assume he is such a dolt. He may be very
capable or have a close friend that could help.
-Sax
Juan Pinon
> "Saxology" <Saxolo...@yahoo.com> wrote > >
> > As for this problem, screw the shotgun methods of shorting plugs and WD40.
> > Get a schematic and a scope.
>
> Yeah, buy a $2000. scope to fix a $1000. mixer. That makes sense.
Why a $2000 scope for analog audio hardware? An $800 scope will do
anything you want. Don't get me wrong... a $2000 scope would be nicer,
but cheap scopes have been getting much better and the difference
between the $4000 scope my employer owns with its ethernet interface
and built in webserver... and an old 465... is pretty trivial for this
sort of troubleshooting. There are also PC based scopes... no good for
field work as you need to hook them up to your laptop ;) (that is the
main use of them for me, but I've heard that laptops are no good in
the field so... hey, I'm joking...) but some are actually pretty nice.
Better models have firewire interface, 10-12 bit A/D, two channel...
pretty cool for something you can put in your pocket. Of course, a
traditional scope will last forever and who knows how long a pc
interface standard will be around, but....
$500 on the used market will get you one of the most useful tools you
can have on your bench. Worth it four times over.
I was more curious about the schematic. Are they easily available for
these products?
BTW: the problem to me sounds like an intermittant open... dry joint,
cracked trace, cracked/burned componant (most likely w/ SM...
especially if it was reworked, but even out of P&P... SM discretes can
easily be cooked by bad soldering technique... the joint is good, the
part isn't.) Tapping the chassis changing the symptoms strongly
suggest something gross. That doesn't really help much.... If I had
it, I would set everything the same l&r, send a signal down both
paths, wait for the drop out, and walk down the paths with a scope
comparing signals. One of two things would happen...I would find a
point where a difference starts, or I would find a point where when I
touched the probe to it the problem went away. Either would be good
from a diagnostic perspective. A schematic would be nice, but assuming
both sides are identical, it shouldn't be necessary since you have a
working reference.
-Piñon
GK
"Juan Pinon" <t...@violetcatastrophe.org> wrote in message
news:f4795fac.03062...@posting.google.com...
> "GK" <NOSPA...@rose.net> wrote in message
news:<vfu6rae...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > "Saxology" <Saxolo...@yahoo.com> wrote > >
> > > As for this problem, screw the shotgun methods of shorting plugs and
WD40.
> > > Get a schematic and a scope.
> >
> > Yeah, buy a $2000. scope to fix a $1000. mixer. That makes sense.
>
> Why a $2000 scope for analog audio hardware?
The MixWiz has a SMPS power supply and digital effects.
GK
CareyD
> sold
> > > > them and have avoided the Gl / mix series a& H ever since
>
> > The gl2 became the mix series, the gl3 became the gl2000 then the 2200
> > all I did was be one of the first users(and dealers) of the A&H stuff
> > I hated my GL3 it had many other issues besides the poor reliability
> > it had gain structure problems as well when using it at foh with monitor
> > mixes
> > George
> >
> >
> Not for anything guys, but when I read this thread I was dumbfounded. All
> you hear in this NG is how great A&H is and how bad Mackie is. Mackie is
> cited for poor gain structure and being fragile. Now I see A&H have the
> exact same problems.
No, I don't believe we have 'exact same problems'. A&H have come a
long way over its 30 plus years experience. Certainly the newer GL,
MixWiz and ML consoles are a far cry from the early GL2 and GL3 boards
(late 80's). As a user and designer of A&H consoles it is frustrating
that current reputation for some people hangs on these old consoles.
But, such is life...
Onwards!
Carey (A&H, UK)
Robert B II
A lot of bad PR was created in Australia when the importers refused until
forced to supply replacement power supplies rated at 240v for the 220v
european ones fitted.
They would say that,they had no other complaints, but here in NT ambient
temps at an outdoor gig were allready high, and the power supply would get
too hot to touch.
You just knew that while it worked it was only time before the caps would be
dried out!
This refers to a GL2 BTW
--
Robert B* II
Saxology
> No, I don't believe we have 'exact same problems'. A&H have come a
> long way over its 30 plus years experience. Certainly the newer GL,
> MixWiz and ML consoles are a far cry from the early GL2 and GL3 boards
> (late 80's). As a user and designer of A&H consoles it is frustrating
> that current reputation for some people hangs on these old consoles.
> But, such is life...
> Onwards!
> Carey (A&H, UK)
>
Carey,
Exact would be splitting hairs a bit, don't you think? Any manufacturer
can say "that was the old gear, the new is much improveed". In fact, I
wouldn't expect anyone to say "that was the old gear, the new stuff really
sucks... in fact, it sucks so much you will like the old gear more than
ever". All I was asking for is a level playing field of opinion. All I read
is how great A&H is, but this post let me know that all isn't well..... at
least in the past. Mackie gets blasted all the time for its gain structure.
The A&H, on the other hand, never gets blasted for its gain structure, until
now. I have a mixwiz that I am happy with, so far (except for a paint
blemish). I think you might want to address the problems the mixwiz does
have like:
1. They don't easily fit in a rack. Racks have to be custom made for
them (unless you want connectors pointing down and hidden inside.
2. The effects interface isn't bidirectional. This causes a long delay
in programming as the current state of the board can't be "read" and all
effects must be written.
3. The software.... well, what can I say... the GUI isn't very good.
Round knobs where a slider should be. Not intuitive either. Programs all
chanels instead of allowing only changed ones to be programmed (due to
memory usage I would bet).
4. Limited stereo returns, one used for the effects.
5. LED next to the channel "on" switch is poorly placed so that you hit
it all of the time.
Ok, I will give you that every Mackie problem is not "exactly" the same
as A&H's problem. But this news group has a way of never pointing out the
faults of certain gear, like A&H, while never letting up other gear, like PV
and Mackie. All I want is some fairness. Some of us buy based upon
opinions from others we have never met. I think the NG serves a great
number of us who look to learn and avoid common mistakes.
Now, to be fair, there are things A&H does well on the mixwiz:
1. Pads on the xlr inputs
2. Nice PFL options
3. Many aux sends
4. Hardware selections available without the need to make wire jumpers.
These selections are accessible by switches hiddin below the front panel
surface to avoid mistakes in dark venues.
5. Long smooth faders
6. Improved EQ over the cheap guys
Fairness is all I asked for.....
-Sax
Juan Pinon
Thinking about it, the whole question is sort of silly. Most who know
the benefit of having a scope already have one or have access to one
through their employers.
But....
I don't think your reasons are good reasons for specing a $2000 scope
in this case. $2000 will buy you a new 200MHz w/ color LCD and a whole
bunch of features that would never be used in diagnosing this sort of
problem. You would be better off buying a $1000 firewire-interface
scope and a laptop. But $450 will buy a perfectly usable (and new)
100MHz CRT scope, and there is something about knobs...lol. Used is
wiser, though calibration can be an issue. I'm not arguing against
good test equipment...hell, I have a HP/Aligent 3458A VOM at home (got
it used), because you never know when you might need 8.5 digits of
accuracy...but scopes are just damned handy and worth a few hundred
bucks.
Diagnosing SM power supply issues can be done with just about any
scope you can buy these days. Problems usually show in the
500Hz-200KHz range. The last PWM SMPS controller I dealt with (3-4
years ago) had a *max* frequency of 350KHz, and it didn't run at max.
I'm not saying that you won't find exceptions... the world is full of
'em... but... Doesn't sound like a power supply problem anyway.
As for digital effects.... yeah, that's a bitch. The odds of a
successful diagnosis of intermittant problems in that area are about
nil without a schematic and far too much patience. The problem sounded
pretty analog....
-Piñon
Kees Jan Koster
>
> Not for anything guys, but when I read this thread I was dumbfounded. All
> you hear in this NG is how great A&H is and how bad Mackie is. Mackie is
> cited for poor gain structure and being fragile. Now I see A&H have the
> exact same problems. I bought a MixWiz to try based upon the "Euro-centric"
> thinking in this NG.
>
I never bought the mixwizard on eurocentric grounds. I'd buy D&R if I
were political about it. I bought the MixWizard because I work with them
a lot. They are generally rental gear, old and ragged and work fine. I
seem to have run into a dud that slipped by A&H's Q&A. I am confident
that once fixed, this desk will be more reliable than a Mackie of the
same vintage.
As an aside, if you work with Soundcraft a lot you will undoubtedly be
aware of the last-minute maintenance that their older desks require
these days. Cracking pots are the rule, not the exception. I'd still use
a Delta over a GL2200 any day (*shh*, don't tell Carey I said this).
>
> Personally, I like Mackie and Soundcraft. I will also
> say that my Behringer is a tank compared to the Soundcraft.
>
Uhm... I'd love to drop my old Spirit (or a 200B) onto a Eurodesk from a
little way up, and vice versa. I'm confident I can still do a gig with
the Spirit afterwards, I'm not so sure about the eurodesk.
>
> I would hope in
> the future to see a more eq'ed opinion of manufacturers that isn't biased by
> what we sell....
>
I'm a buyer, not a seller. Hmmm. On second thought, I rent a lot, so I'm
more of a renter than a seller. Anyway, I speak from what I work with.
If you find me making claims that you doubt, I will be happy to offer
proof, or retract my statement.
>
> As for this problem, screw the shotgun methods of shorting plugs and WD40.
> Get a schematic and a scope.
>
I never took those seriously. Carey is helping me to pin the problem
down to a small board area and it should be an easy fix after that.
>
> You can't break it worse, it's already broke!
>
Heh, don't tempt me to prove you wrong. My repair bills are high enough
as it is. :-)
Kees Jan Koster
>
> If A&H can't fix it and he can't either, I hope he throws it away in a
> box with my address on it. I'll fix it.
>
As long as you ship it back afterwards...
>
> I don't think you should assume he is such a dolt. He may be very
> capable or have a close friend that could help.
>
I can spot and fix dry solder joints, except for very tricky ones. I
opened the desk for a visual inspection before shipping it off for
repairs. I decided that this problem was better fixed by a professional,
since all solderwork looked fine to my half-trained eye.
Kees Jan Koster
>
> Exact would be splitting hairs a bit, don't you think? Any manufacturer
> can say "that was the old gear, the new is much improveed".
>
Someone claimed the same for Behringer, just the other day. *wink*
>
> 4. Limited stereo returns, one used for the effects.
>
On the 16:2 maybe, but my 14:4:2 has four extra stereo returns (no EQ on
those, though).
>
> 5. LED next to the channel "on" switch is poorly placed so that you hit
> it all of the time.
>
Indeed.
GK
Yeah, but even your lowest price of $450. is too much to spend on a scope
just to fix a MixWiz. That's my real point. $2K was just a handy figure.
$450. is just as useful for what I mean. During the course of Kees'
_troubleshooting_ he found that it got better when a physical shock was
applied. You don't need a scope to find a physical problem. Sure, it's
handy, but not necessary. Sounds like he's hot on the trail of the problem
anyway. Just wait until word gets out that he's a mixer fixer.
8~)
GK
Kees Jan Koster
>
> Sounds like he's hot on the trail of the problem
> anyway. Just wait until word gets out that he's a mixer fixer.
> 8~)
>
Aha, well, prepare to bow in the dust then. I pressed the flip switch
that makes a monitor desk out of the box and the problem went away. I'll
open up the case and resolder that little bugger this weekend.
hahahaaa!!!!! B0w 2 m3, f0r 1 4m R00T!!!
*Ahem* Better now, much better.
Well, I'm glad I got this problem licked. Now I can go back to actually
using the desk. :-) No cookie for A&H's QA department. Bad department,
heel. Cookie for CareyD for helping me out and to you lot for the
interesting discussions.
Juan Pinon
> Sounds like he's hot on the trail of the problem
> anyway. Just wait until word gets out that he's a mixer fixer.
> 8~)
LOL... watch out world! Mr Mixwizfixwiz Kees' is (or will be) in the
house... :)
> Yeah, but even your lowest price of $450. is too much to spend on a scope
> just to fix a MixWiz. That's my real point. $2K was just a handy figure.
> $450. is just as useful for what I mean.
Eh... well... I must admit that buying a scope and throwing it away
after the first use would be a tad wasteful. On the other hand, it
might be cheaper than shipping a board a few times, or the downtime.
Myself, I'd keep the scope, but...if the goal is to amortize the cost
over a single incident he could ebay it as "used one time! Perfect!"
and probably make a profit...heh.
> During the course of Kees'
> _troubleshooting_ he found that it got better when a physical shock was
> applied. You don't need a scope to find a physical problem. Sure, it's
> handy, but not necessary.
It is a matter of running marathons vs driving. There is something
impressive about running a marathon, but any schmoe in a car can get
there faster (or could if there weren't 50,000 people walking in the
$#!^#@|& street). Scopes, like cars, are tools for getting you there
faster. It doesn't diminish our respect for the marathon
runner...but...some people just want to get there.
-Piñon
"...every problem is a nail."
Phildo
"James B" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec607688.03062...@posting.google.com...
> > Sounds like a dry joint ... that can be difficult to find.
>
> I'm inclined to agree. A&H = dry joint in my experience, but then that
> wasn't a MixWizard but an old SR8. I'm not saying that every A&H unit
> is defective, but we had the same kind of problem, where giving the
> case a big tap 'fixes' the problem for a while, and repair person's
> had trouble locating it (channel 5 and R master).
>
By a strange coincidence, one of the stewardesses here on the boat used to
work at A&H doing the soldering on the mixwizards and some of the other
desks [1]. I shall have to show her this thread.
Phildo
[1] Michaela Yates if anyone from A&H is reading.
Phildo
"Saxology" <Saxolo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:I2DLa.17750$C83.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Not for anything guys, but when I read this thread I was dumbfounded. All
> you hear in this NG is how great A&H is and how bad Mackie is. Mackie is
> cited for poor gain structure and being fragile. Now I see A&H have the
> exact same problems.
Not in most people's experiences, just George and Kees Jan on here so far.
One person's experiences are not representative of a brand as a whole.
Phildo
Phildo
> Dear Saxology,
>
> >
> > Exact would be splitting hairs a bit, don't you think? Any
manufacturer
> > can say "that was the old gear, the new is much improveed".
> >
> Someone claimed the same for Behringer, just the other day. *wink*
It's also true of Behringer and A&H. A company that does not improve goes
under. Look at Mackie.
If you have a problem with that take a look at the new Behringer gear
released over the last few months compared to the old stuff. Take a look at
the modern A&H boards compared to the GL2s and such.
Phildo
Claude
conflicting frequencies. I run a pile of those transmitters and receivers
with no problems but had to change some freqs though.
Take care C
"Kees Jan Koster" <kjko...@kjkoster.org> wrote in message
news:3F007889...@kjkoster.org...
Phil Allison
"Claude" <cbi...@escape.ca> wrote in message
news:du2Oa.2144$V8....@news1.mts.net...
> Go to AT site and find the worksheet they have for testing the systems for
> conflicting frequencies. I run a pile of those transmitters and receivers
> with no problems but had to change some freqs though.
** This puppy is lost....
........... Phil
Dan Williams
finding the offending component Kees. A couple things that used to plague me
in my days as a tech for a mixing board company. The occasional bad pot. No
not that kind, the carbon track and particularly conductive plastic rotarys.
We always bought the good Bournes pots but we'd occasionally get a bad one.
Bad switches were another occasional problem even though we used the good
ITT shadow switches. Another issue with the pots and switches were they were
used partly as structural components to mount the boards to the chassis.
Dumb idea. Give the console a good bump and it was necessary to pull all the
boards out and re-solder all the pots. A through hole joint can look fine
but still be broken. When a through hole solder joint is busted air gets in
between the two peices of metal that are supposed to be joined. If the
console is bouncing around in a truck every day the joint can be scrubbed
enough to stay working but let it sit for a while and the lead/tin solder
that is wetted to the surface of the conductors oxidizes. These oxides are
lousy conductors. Banging the board may bring the contact back briefly as
the oxides are scraped away but the connection isn't stable and will
gradually get worse again. Not to mention the scraping motion tends to open
up the space between the conductors. The reason a loud signal can sometimes
seem to fix a problem is the oxide layers are very thin and a couple of
volts signal may "punch through" the oxide providing a better conductive
path but this is usually short lived.
As for the bias against surface mount components goes I don't understand it.
My experience with surface mount components has shown me they are
considererably more reliable then through hole components.
Dan