Beta 91 on piano?
Martin
Gaffed to the top lid or behind the removable panel below the keys?
Martin
George Gleason
"Martin" <bas...@stones.com> wrote in message
news:rt31b.22709$Hb.3...@news4.e.nsc.no...
> Anybody used a Shure Beta 91 on a piano, and if so - how did you olac it?
> Gaffed to the top lid or behind the removable panel below the keys?
>
> Martin
Gaffed to lid works pretty good still perfer a 414 and a 184
184 0n highs 414 on lows
George
>
>
Arny Krueger
> olac it? Gaffed to the top lid or behind the removable panel below
> the keys?
How about its predecessor, the SM91.
I use it stuck to the middle of the underside of the top, right over the
place in the casting where the reinforcments cross. Piano is played with the
lid closed or the smallest opening.
Here's some 2-sided tape that will hold up something this heavy:
(1) Velcro "Industrial Strength" 3/4" wide
(2) http://www.stickon.com/tape/page38.htm
Martin
Tried it gaffed to the lid, but it was a bit to "honky" and did not cover
the register of the piano, so I used a RØDE NT3 on the upper register and a
SM58 on the mid/bottom with the lid open. I could probably have made the
Beta 91 work with a bit more time to experiment, but the guy who supplied
the PA had forgotten the snake, the mic cables and the speakon cables! - so
I had to call in some favours from local friends, and due to shortage of mic
cables I had to run the system without master EQ and with 2 monitor sends
(also without EQ) instead of the ordered 4.
Fortunately - the band, a Trad Jazz / New Orleans line up with drums, piano,
tuba, banjo, trumpet, trombone, clarinet and a female singer did not request
high levels of monitoring, and the SRM450's sound quite nice without
external EQ - so everybody was happy, even the guy with the PA who I charged
50% of the hire to cover my "stress factor".
Sennheiser E-609 on trumpet and trombone sounded very nice.
Martin
"Martin" <bas...@stones.com> wrote in message
news:rt31b.22709$Hb.3...@news4.e.nsc.no...
> Anybody used a Shure Beta 91 on a piano, and if so - how did you place
it?
> Gaffed to the top lid or behind the removable panel below the keys?
>
> Martin
>
>(
Phildo
> Gaffed to the top lid or behind the removable panel below the keys?
>
on the SM58 sitting on a bit of foam they used before I got here though.
Phildo
Jack Kontney
Martin et al. --
This from the Shure Web site's Solution Database --
----------
"For piano miking ideas, see page 24 of this link:
http://www.shure.com/pdf/booklets/music.pdf
You can use self-adhering Velcro to attach a boundary (PZM) mic to a
piano lid. Typically the Velcro attached to the lid can be carefully
removed later without damaging the finish.
Some sound engineers place a boundary mic directly on the piano
soundboard, with the mic sitting on a computer mouse pad for
isolation.
In the Shure line, the Beta 91 is used for this type of close piano
miking. However, we do not guarantee you will like the sound. Only you
can make that decision after you hear the mics in your piano. Not
everyone likes a piano that is miked so closely. It is a "rock and
roll" sound, not a "classical music" sound."
----------
FYI, I also know live sound engineers who have used a pair of '91s
UNDER the harp, one for high register and one for low. One of them
then combines that with signal from a C-tape. (Motivation: heavy mic
taped under lid during live performance not exactly
confidence-inspiring. Plus, taping onto the pretty piano finish does
raise eyebrows in certain quarters.)
Another cool technique is to use a M-S stereo mic, which allows you to
control direct vs ambient signal, thus creating a measure of control
over the tonal balance.
There seem to be as many techniques as there are engineers willing to
try them (perhaps multiplied by the number of piano designs and venue
restrictions out there).
-Jack Kontney
Shure Incorporated
Dave Nicholas
"George Gleason" <g.p.g...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:DU31b.108208$0v4.7...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
George,
with all due respect, most piano owners would shoot me if I used gaffers
tape on their $100,000 dollar pianos. In no way would I even try to use
gaffers tape on the lid. If I had the choice I would would use the 414 and
the 184 just like you prefer but this is in an environment that would be a
little quieter. For large shows, hands down, I would be using the C-ducer
strip mics mounted to the underside of the sounding board about 18" in on
both the high and the low. Granted these are a little more tricky to EQ but
the head room is just insane and the artists has the option playing with the
lid open or closed unlike with mics mounted to the lid. If the lid is open
and the mic is mounted to the lid, you are just asking for trouble.
Dave
Martin
about different instruments, for wich I appologize - caused by the fact that
my native language is not english.
The piano in my scenario has its strings horisontally (see
"HonkyTonkASCIIpiano" below) and is not a "grand piano" (Steinway or
similar).
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On "Grands" I beleive a SM91 or two would work quite fine, and I've had good
results with 414's in the past - but the best ever was on a live radio
concert when the broadcasting tec handed me two Neuman U87's which we hung
in gaffa loops inside with the lid closed.
Martin
Thomas Bishop
> Gentlemen, reading your replies to my initial post, it seem we are talking
> about different instruments, for wich I appologize - caused by the fact
that
> my native language is not english.
Upright piano is what you are referring to.
George Gleason
"Dave Nicholas" <'nospam'dn...@me.net> wrote in message
news:mPs1b.2508$qa.7...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
Dave I just did it to see how it would work
and for uprights it works exceptionaly well
No I am not suggesting we go gaffing things to the Stienway at the Lincoln
center
i do not use the 91 on anything other than uprights and even there a
160(crown ) is much better
LOL
George
>
>
Charles R. Kaiser
> Dave I just did it to see how it would work
> and for uprights it works exceptionaly well
> No I am not suggesting we go gaffing things to the Stienway at the Lincoln
> center
Why not? Things are taped to the underside of piano lids all the time.
When I was the Production Manager at the Ford Centre for the
Performing Arts in Toronto, PCC's and other boundary mics were taped to
the lid of our Hamburg Steinway on a regular basis. Care and a very
good quality tape are all that is required.
--
Charles R. Kaiser HOKC - http://www.godtar.com
"There's two dates in time that they'll carve on your stone
And everyone knows what they mean. What's more important
Is the time that is known in that little dash in between"
Chad Wahls
"Charles R. Kaiser" <cka...@aci.on.ca> wrote in message
news:bi8ko2$6oblu$2...@ID-95120.news.uni-berlin.de...
> George Gleason wrote:
>
>
> > Dave I just did it to see how it would work
> > and for uprights it works exceptionaly well
> > No I am not suggesting we go gaffing things to the Stienway at the
Lincoln
> > center
>
> Why not? Things are taped to the underside of piano lids all the time.
> When I was the Production Manager at the Ford Centre for the
> Performing Arts in Toronto, PCC's and other boundary mics were taped to
> the lid of our Hamburg Steinway on a regular basis. Care and a very
> good quality tape are all that is required.
>
>
Same here, beauty of a Stienway I tape PZM's to the lid of. I use dance
floor tape. BTW this stuff is also sold to athletic departments as Gorilla
Grip, they use it ti hold mats down, I use it to hold snakes down. Comes in
4" widths, and is fan-freaking-tastic.
Chad
Dave Nicholas
"Chad Wahls" <ch...@soltec.net> wrote in message news:3f46e161_2@newsfeed...
taping the unit onto the lid limits the player to either the short stick or
no stick. Alot of musicians want to play with the grand at either half
stick(most cases) or full stick. Doing this with the mic "taped" to the lid
is just asking for trouble. Many times I have done classical and musical
theatre work and being in the pit, you are just going to pick up the
intruments around it and also run in to the feedback bug. Don't be me
wrong. I love the beta 91 it is an unbelievable mic but for a piano, no.
Better off using C-ducer strips and have all the headroom you can handle.
(no I am not sponsored by C-ducer LOL)
I guess the bottom line is what is the venue
Dave
George Gleason
The 91 ia a great choice for that piano so is the crown pcc160
George
Charles R. Kaiser
> taping the unit onto the lid limits the player to either the short stick or
> no stick. Alot of musicians want to play with the grand at either half
> stick(most cases) or full stick.
I'm not saying that this is how a piano should be miked all the time,
but when it is suitable it works very well.
> Doing this with the mic "taped" to the lid
> is just asking for trouble. Many times I have done classical and musical
> theatre work and being in the pit, you are just going to pick up the
> intruments around it and also run in to the feedback bug. Don't be me
> wrong. I love the beta 91 it is an unbelievable mic but for a piano, no.
Horses for courses. . .
> Better off using C-ducer strips and have all the headroom you can handle.
> (no I am not sponsored by C-ducer LOL)
Sometimes a Helpinstill works really nicely.
> I guess the bottom line is what is the venue
Or what the artist wants IN the venue.
--
Charles R. Kaiser HOKC - http://www.godtar.com
tim perry
> Dave Nicholas wrote:
>
> > taping the unit onto the lid limits the player to either the short stick
or
> > no stick. Alot of musicians want to play with the grand at either half
> > stick(most cases) or full stick.
>
i use a PCC or PZM mounted on a Plexiglas square which has a mic flange
mounted on the opposite side. a short gooseneck allows adjustment for a
variety of applications.
when using this in a piano on a boom stand extra weight on the
counterbalance is needed sometimes to prevent it from sinking
Chad Wahls
Then do this and save money on mics....
Take two 57's on booms and place them on plane on the second and second to
last hole on the sound board. I wad TOLD to do this for B.B. King and it
got loud as hell, guess what? It actually sounded like a piano.
Neet tricks those old skool guys teach you.
This is a grand though, For uprights I still like the C-ducer.
Chad
Scott Rushton
The theatre I work at has 2 countryman C ducer mics on long spools of wire.
We rigged them up near the bridge pointing at the hammers. With the long
spools, you can run the thin cord right down and out of the piano to the
floor without really being seen. The bonus is that they sound great.
"George Gleason" <g.p.g...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:T%22b.111790$3o3.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Scott Rushton
Isomax.
Scott
"Scott Rushton" <scru...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
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