Opinions requested

[Mike Faithfull]

Apologies for bringing the name of Mackie into a pro-audio newsgroup, but it
could be they are heading in the right direction (or not?) and I can't find
another live sound forum to ask.

My son has just purchased a pair of Mackie DLM12 units for his church. Key
decision criteria were size, weight and portability to facilitate setup and
stripdown in a temporary venue.

Has anybody any experience with these units - performance, reliability?
Anything to be aware of (for a very non-technical user) in operation?

Thanks for your advice and help.
Mike.

[Phil Allison]

"Mike Faithfull"

>
> Apologies for bringing the name of Mackie into a pro-audio newsgroup, but
> it could be they are heading in the right direction (or not?) and I can't
> find another live sound forum to ask.

** There are not many.

> My son has just purchased a pair of Mackie DLM12 units for his church.
> Key decision criteria were size, weight and portability to facilitate
> setup and stripdown in a temporary venue.
>
> Has anybody any experience with these units - performance, reliability?
> Anything to be aware of (for a very non-technical user) in operation?

** I am an electronics tech specialising in pro audio, been doing that now
for 40 years.

Seen a fair bit of Mackie stuff over the years (originally made in USA ) and
a bit of the recent products that come from China. The DLM12 is guaranteed
to be a 100% Chinese product, just with a Mackie badge.

From the marketing blurbs etc it appears to be aimed squarely at DJs, small
groups and even churches.

The 2000W power claim is certain to be fictitious.

The class D amplifier will be made using SMD throughout, so it is
essentially non repairable.

If the Chinese have got absolutely everything absolutely right - it will be
reliable enough.

Otherwise not, it is basically throw away technology.

Also, you may get a good one or a bad one.

BTW:

Coming here AFTER buying such a product is like locking the gate after the
horse has bolted.



.... Phil

[Michael Dobony]

Performance and reliability is a moot question since you already bought
the. They are not workhorses, like Peavey, so treat them gently, like you
would a laptop. Don't go disconnecting them by yanking on the cords. Don't
go slamming them around.

[Les Cargill]

Mike Faithfull wrote:
> Apologies for bringing the name of Mackie into a pro-audio newsgroup, but it
> could be they are heading in the right direction (or not?) and I can't find
> another live sound forum to ask.
>
> My son has just purchased a pair of Mackie DLM12 units for his church. Key
> decision criteria were size, weight and portability to facilitate setup and
> stripdown in a temporary venue.
>

My opinion is I'd a bought these:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--QSCK12

> Has anybody any experience with these units - performance, reliability?
> Anything to be aware of (for a very non-technical user) in operation?
>
> Thanks for your advice and help.
> Mike.
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[Gareth Magennis]

"Les Cargill" wrote in message news:khe9rs$k3r$1...@dont-email.me...

Mike Faithfull wrote:
> Apologies for bringing the name of Mackie into a pro-audio newsgroup, but
> it
> could be they are heading in the right direction (or not?) and I can't
> find
> another live sound forum to ask.
>
> My son has just purchased a pair of Mackie DLM12 units for his church.
> Key
> decision criteria were size, weight and portability to facilitate setup
> and
> stripdown in a temporary venue.
>

My opinion is I'd a bought these:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--QSCK12

I think if I was going to buy something like the Mackie or QSC, I would
first try and see how easy, or even if it is possible, to buy a replacement
HF diaphragm or Bass driver.



Gareth.

[Les Cargill]

This is absolutely true. I just thought the QSC sounded quite nice.

--
Les Cargill

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"

>
> I think if I was going to buy something like the Mackie or QSC, I would
> first try and see how easy, or even if it is possible, to buy a
> replacement HF diaphragm or Bass driver.

** When ( not if ) the class D amp fails, it will likely take both of them
out.

Then you have an expensive door stopper.

The Chinese have the exact same philosophy on these matters as Alfred E.
Neuman.

http://mikophoto.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Alfred-E.-Neuman.jpg




.... Phil

[kroo...@gmail.com]

These boxes have barely been shipping long enough for anyone to give you real input on reliability. On the Mackie message boards though, there have already been a few reports of power-on failures. It seems they go through this every time they release a new speaker model: they blow up when you turn them on. Same thing happened with the HD series and the SRMv2 models.

As for professional sound forums, there are others out there:

www.soundforums.net
forums.prosoundweb.com

Then there are the MI grade ones like Harmony Central. Even Mackie has their own message board (which is down right now). They seem to have a lot of trouble keeping their site up and running. Makes me not trust their products very much if they can't even keep their crappy site up.

[Mike Faithfull]

"Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:aq33c3...@mid.individual.net...

Thanks to all responders for valuable replies. I take on board the "stable
door" comment but unfortunately the deed was already done before I found
out. I was hoping for some "in the light of our experience, this is what to
be wary of" replies, and indeed you have done just that, for which many
thanks. I was afraid that I might get the "When (not if) the amp fails ..."
kind of reply - I guess it's almost inevitable with all that complex
switchery going on! I think my message to him must be "treat them gently
and hope for the best" ! Thanks again for all your replies.

Mike.

[Phil Allison]

<kroo...@gmail.com>

> These boxes have barely been shipping long enough for
> anyone to give you real input on reliability.

**100% correct.

> On the Mackie message boards though, there have already been a few reports
> of power-on failures.

** Likely culprits are wrong size fuses, bad wire terminations and bad
soldering in the PSU.

> It seems they go through this every time they release a new
> speaker model: they blow up when you turn them on. Same
> thing happened with the HD series and the SRMv2 models.

** Infant mortality ??

> Then there are the MI grade ones like Harmony Central. Even
> Mackie has their own message board (which is down right now).
> They seem to have a lot of trouble keeping their site up and
> running. Makes me not trust their products very much if they
> can't even keep their crappy site up.

** Agreed.

The biggest problems I see with self power boxes are down to the severe
vibration experienced by the PCBs and attached components. Bits simply fall
off, like electro capacitors.

A few months ago, I spent many hours exorcising multiple intermittent faults
in a dB Technologies amp module. The unit would suddenly drop volume or stop
altogether during use. It was about 3 years old.

Turned out, the PCB itself was riddled with faulty plated through holes (
aka vias) - I tracked down about 15. Soon as the PCB warmed a bit,
microscopic cracks inside the holes opened up. This sort of problem is due
to a combination of poor manufacture, severe vibration and constant thermal
cycling of the PCB.

BTW:

The fix is to pass a fine wire through the hole and solder it on both sides.
There must have been over 100 such holes in the board, so finding the bad
ones was a nightmare and other holes may fail in the future.


.... Phil

[kroo...@gmail.com]

Sounds like dB needs to find someone else to spin their boards or spec a design that's more robust.

- K

[Phil Allison]

<kroo...@gmail.com>

> Sounds like dB needs to find someone else to spin their boards or spec a
> design that's more robust.

** All they really needed to do was what most PCB makers do - run solder
down the damn holes.

Bit late now.


.... Phil