Trying to decide between KSM-105 and KSM-9
Mickey
already given feedback that there are obvious problems in the
sound setup, and that hearing yourself isn't necessarily improved
with a better mic.
Subject: trying to decide between a NEUMANN KMS 105 or a SHURE KSM 9 mic
I'd love any reviews from those of you that are familiar with them.
I'm working in a big jazz club here in San fran that has a house wired
sound system- the speakers are all in the ceiling. I feel like I'm
screaming myself hoarse everynight just trying to be heard.
From what I can tell- the neumann is a better mic- but works optimally
with an in ear monitoring system. It's also very sensitive and I am
afraid that may give me feedbak problems...especially given that the
stage is literally under the speakers in the ceiling.
The shure is pretty close to the neumann but not as sensitive...but it
won't pick up the juicier lower parts if my voice like the neumann will.
It will also work just fine with a normal monitor wedge or personal
monitor like a hotspot. I'm just afraif it will make me sound shrill.
I know they are both condenser mics with great reps... I can also get
either one of them for about the same price. of 500.00 which is about
half of what I've seen them for retail. They are allowing me to test the
both side by side when the shure comes into th store next week. I'd like
any thoughts any of you have...especially anything I need to look for
when I test them. I've invested this kind of money on a wireless mic
before but never a corded one...and never one that has a rep for being
delicate. Any feed back regarding either f these will be greatly
appreciated!
--
Mickey
There comes a time when you should stop expecting other people to make
a big deal about your birthday. That time is age 12. -- Dave Barry
Scott Dorsey
>NOTE: This is posted for someone else. I will collect replies. We have
> already given feedback that there are obvious problems in the
> sound setup, and that hearing yourself isn't necessarily improved
> with a better mic.
>
>Subject: trying to decide between a NEUMANN KMS 105 or a SHURE KSM 9 mic
>
>I'd love any reviews from those of you that are familiar with them.
They sound totally different. Both are very directional and have really
good isolation, but the KMS105 has a really tipped-up and bright top end.
This works great on some voices, while on other voices it can be a
real problem because it will exaggerate tonsil noise.
>I'm working in a big jazz club here in San fran that has a house wired
>sound system- the speakers are all in the ceiling. I feel like I'm
>screaming myself hoarse everynight just trying to be heard.
What mike are you using?
>From what I can tell- the neumann is a better mic- but works optimally
>with an in ear monitoring system. It's also very sensitive and I am
>afraid that may give me feedbak problems...especially given that the
>stage is literally under the speakers in the ceiling.
EVERYTHING works optimally with in-ear monitors. Bringing your backline
levels down and monitoring levels down is a HUGE win. The Neumanns are
no different than any other mike in that regard.
>The shure is pretty close to the neumann but not as sensitive...but it
>won't pick up the juicier lower parts if my voice like the neumann will.
>It will also work just fine with a normal monitor wedge or personal
>>monitor like a hotspot. I'm just afraif it will make me sound shrill.
Juicier lower parts? What makes you think it's thin sounding?
>I know they are both condenser mics with great reps... I can also get
>either one of them for about the same price. of 500.00 which is about
>half of what I've seen them for retail. They are allowing me to test the
>both side by side when the shure comes into th store next week. I'd like
>any thoughts any of you have...especially anything I need to look for
>when I test them. I've invested this kind of money on a wireless mic
>before but never a corded one...and never one that has a rep for being
>delicate. Any feed back regarding either f these will be greatly
>appreciated!
ANY store that will sell you something like this will allow you to take
it out and audition it. Try them both, get the PA guy to record you
with a quick board tape. Take the tapes home, listen to them, pick the
mike that sounds best on your voice.
And try the Sennheiser MD431 while you're at it. It's a highly underrated
microphone... and it works very well on a lot of voices that the KSM9 and
KMS105 may not.
If people all had the same kind of voice, they'd only need to make one kind
of vocal mike. But they don't.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Paul Stamler
news:slrnh203ba...@bill.heins.net...
> I'm working in a big jazz club here in San fran that has a house wired
> sound system- the speakers are all in the ceiling. I feel like I'm
> screaming myself hoarse everynight just trying to be heard.
>
> From what I can tell- the neumann is a better mic- but works optimally
> with an in ear monitoring system. It's also very sensitive and I am
> afraid that may give me feedbak problems...especially given that the
> stage is literally under the speakers in the ceiling.
Sensitivity of the mic isn't a factor with feedback. When you're using a
more sensitive mic, you turn down the gain so the *effective* sensitivities,
to your voice and to feedback, are the same. What matters is off-axis
response; peaks in the off-axis response can give you bad feedback problems.
The Shure is good in that regard.
> The shure is pretty close to the neumann but not as sensitive...but it
> won't pick up the juicier lower parts if my voice like the neumann will.
> It will also work just fine with a normal monitor wedge or personal
> monitor like a hotspot. I'm just afraif it will make me sound shrill.
In my experience, the Shure is less bright than the Neumann, so I don't
think that's something to worry about. As for the juicy lower end...try the
Shure in hypercardioid mode rather than cardioid. In my experience it picks
up deep, rich vocal tones very well.
> I know they are both condenser mics with great reps... I can also get
> either one of them for about the same price. of 500.00 which is about
> half of what I've seen them for retail. They are allowing me to test the
> both side by side when the shure comes into th store next week. I'd like
> any thoughts any of you have...especially anything I need to look for
> when I test them. I've invested this kind of money on a wireless mic
> before but never a corded one...and never one that has a rep for being
> delicate. Any feed back regarding either f these will be greatly
> appreciated!
The KSM9 doesn't have a reputation as a delicate mic -- no Shure mic in my
experience does. The one I tested was built like a tank.
Seriously, my experience with the KSM9 persuaded me that it was one of the
great vocal mics, for live or studio use, and if used properly can solve a
lot of problems, probably including yours.
Disclaimer: I have no connection with Shure other than as a satisfied
customer of some of their products.
Peace,
Paul
geoff
> already given feedback that there are obvious problems in the
> sound setup, and that hearing yourself isn't necessarily improved
> with a better mic.
>
> Subject: trying to decide between a NEUMANN KMS 105 or a SHURE KSM 9 mic
Try the RODE S1 as well.
geoff
Bruce
Phildo
"geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ovednUkz7akwyL_X...@giganews.com...
Seconded. I always carry one with me.
Phildo
Bob Howes
"Phildo" <Ph...@phildo.net> wrote in message
news:gvtr34$9hv$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Thirded on the Rode S1--a very nice sounding mic on a variety of voices and
good off-axis rejection which, from the sound of it, is what you need.
Also endorsed are all the posts saying you really have to try these mics on
your own voice. When you get to the level of decent condensor mics, there
is a real element of matching the mic to the performer--and the two on your
shortlist are VERY different sounding microphones.
Finally, I hope I'm wrong but your description of the club sound system with
the "speakers in the ceiling" doesn't inspire confidence. Do be aware that
you can't fix a crap sound system by feeding it with a great microphone. I
hope I'm wrong on this, but....
Bob
Ty Ford
odr a ksm 104.
Regards,
Ty Ford
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA
Peter Larsen
| odr a ksm 104.
?? - the 44? - the ksm line has been on a diet recently!
| Ty Ford
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Ty Ford
(in article <0012cf6b$0$2081$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>):
bad finger day and mid as well for me, I guess.
KMS 104
Ty
Peter Larsen
|||| odr a ksm 104.
||| ?? - the 44? - the ksm line has been on a diet recently!
|| bad finger day and mid as well for me, I guess.
|| KMS 104
Ah, yes ... it is my religion that a cardiod is likely to sound sweeter, the
sharper the pattern, the sharper the sound. However I do not speak from
having tried either.
|| Ty
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
hank alrich
> Ty Ford wrote:
>
> |||| odr a ksm 104.
>
> ||| ?? - the 44? - the ksm line has been on a diet recently!
>
> || bad finger day and mid as well for me, I guess.
>
> || KMS 104
>
> Ah, yes ... it is my religion that a cardiod is likely to sound sweeter, the
> sharper the pattern, the sharper the sound.
That sure doesn't apply to the Senn MD441, which has a hyper pattern and
to me a very smooth and honest sound,
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
Peter Larsen
|| Ah, yes ... it is my religion that a cardiod is likely to sound
|| sweeter, the sharper the pattern, the sharper the sound.
| That sure doesn't apply to the Senn MD441, which has a hyper pattern
| and to me a very smooth and honest sound,
These are not a good example since they are fixed pattern, so comparison
ends up imaginary, however - have you tried them as main pair? - they are a
wee bit thin and silvery in that application to my ears, the mic to compare
to would be the 211N and it is way beyond in treble precision. Or compare
the MKH 106 and the 406, certainly also from a guy who likes his treble a
bit hot, but one is sizzly and the other is spiztly, not a whole lot, but
one is "just right, a wee bit better than life" on a flute or a violin and
one is just a bit over the top, but great on a choir in a large room.
Also: this is transducers, there are always people who break the laws of
nature, such as JBL crossing over to a unit where it - based on its
cross-section - would be wise to cross over from it - AND getting away with
it because they got membrane shape and composition just right. Similarly
Sennheiser got all the resonances that shapes the response of the MD 441
just right but to me it does sound a bit like "linear" obtained by pushing
all the eq-sliders on an octave band eq to the top.
What eventually made me sell mine was their bulk, not their sound, it is a
great do-all for close use and it can do a passable main pair or ambience
pair, even though the subtle detail is missing.
|| ha
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Arny Krueger
"Peter Larsen" <dig...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0043b303$0$2096$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> Ah, yes ... it is my religion that a cardioid is likely to sound sweeter,
> the sharper the pattern, the sharper the sound. However I do not speak
> from having tried either.
This makes some sense, as the sharper the pattern, the more pronounced the
proximity effect.
The more pronounced the proximity effect, the more variation in the low end
"warmth" range.
The variation in the low end due to proximity effect can be effectively
managed with a good equalizer, if the microphone has a consistent working
distance.
I use hypercardiods extensively and find that doing my homework with the
equalizers on my console pays off in terms of a natural sound.
Ty Ford
(in article <a9-dncdmZdUbOrbX...@giganews.com>):
>
> "Peter Larsen" <dig...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0043b303$0$2096$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> Ah, yes ... it is my religion that a cardioid is likely to sound sweeter,
>> the sharper the pattern, the sharper the sound. However I do not speak
>> from having tried either.
>
> This makes some sense, as the sharper the pattern, the more pronounced the
> proximity effect.
Unless we're talking EV mics with Variable D vents.
Regards,
Ty Ford
bob
One on the lead singer, one on the solo clarinet.
It was so neutral, i had to fight the temptation to EQ it.
Singer said it was the best she had heard.
No one will ever kick you out of bed for bringing your Neumann....
bob
geoff
"bob" <so...@inetnebr.com> wrote in message news:h0gu6c$bg1$2...@aioe.org...
>>
>> --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
>> Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
>> Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA
>>
> I used two KSM 104's on a symphony pops gig last month.
> One on the lead singer, one on the solo clarinet.
>
> It was so neutral, i had to fight the temptation to EQ it.
> Singer said it was the best she had heard.
>
> No one will ever kick you out of bed for bringing your Neumann....
What's that about a new man in your bed ?
geoff
Peter Larsen
||| Ah, yes ... it is my religion that a cardioid is likely to sound
||| sweeter, the sharper the pattern, the sharper the sound. However I
||| do not speak from having tried either.
|| This makes some sense, as the sharper the pattern, the more
|| pronounced the proximity effect.
| Unless we're talking EV mics with Variable D vents.
Erm ... guy ... erm, I'm talking treble quality and you're talking bass
frequency response.
Arny Krueger
"Ty Ford" <tyre...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C6515DCA...@News.Individual.NET...
> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 07:41:53 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote
> (in article <a9-dncdmZdUbOrbX...@giganews.com>):
>
>>
>> "Peter Larsen" <dig...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:0043b303$0$2096$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>
>>> Ah, yes ... it is my religion that a cardioid is likely to sound
>>> sweeter,
>>> the sharper the pattern, the sharper the sound. However I do not speak
>>> from having tried either.
>>
>> This makes some sense, as the sharper the pattern, the more pronounced
>> the
>> proximity effect.
>
>
> Unless we're talking EV mics with Variable D vents.
Kind of interesting that Variable D technology never ruled, even after the
patents ran out.