coaxial SPDIF Minidisc recording
Michael Krause
Hello,
I am looking for a Minidisc player that has a coaxial instead of optical
SPDIF input for recording purposes. I plan on hooking up a A-D converter
( M-audio USB Duo when its released ) with its own microphones attached -
it'll make a great portable high quality personal recording setup.
Also, does anyone know - do the new longplay Minidisc recorders offer better
recording quality with less loss ? ( I am recording classical music and
need to keep things as pristine as possible) If I used LP mode and recorded
at something like the highest quality setting, would that provide better
results ?
I want to avoid having to use a seperate coax-optical SPDIF converter (like
the Midiman CO2) - since this is a portable setup, a minimum of hardware
would be great.
George Gleason
DWT
alt.audio.pro.live-sound. The people there are not interested, and this
clearly is not about professional recording.
Michael Krause <kra...@en.com> wrote in
<yP9c7.224059$v5.23...@news1.rdc1.ct.home.com> that he wants to arrange a
portable recording set-up with by connecting his microphone to his outboard
ADC, which has coax S/PDIF output but not optical, so ...
| I am looking for a Minidisc player that has a coaxial instead of optical
| SPDIF input for recording purposes.
First, in the MD world the term "player" means a playback-only device, so
there is no such thing as a player that has any recording input. That's just
a matter of semantics, though, so let's continue.
| Also, does anyone know - do the new longplay Minidisc recorders offer better
| recording quality with less loss ?
They offer a choice between the same old loss level and a new, greater loss
level that gets (because of the greater loss) more time into the same storage
space. It's not like a new kind of disc with greater capacity; it's two ad-
ditional modes of lower quality than the original modes. Using fewer bits
of storage per second of audio has the dual effect of putting more duration
into the same space and also of lowering the fidelity.
| If I used LP mode and recorded at something like the highest quality
| setting, would that provide better results ?
You can't "and" those two: they are mutually exclusive. The play-length
modes and the quality settings are the same things, and you can't use a low
one and a high one at the same time.
There is SP stereo at roughly 292 kbps (146 kbps per channel), which fits
80m59s onto an 80-minute disc (or 74m59s onto a 74-minute disc), less frag-
mentation.
There is SP mono at roughly 146 kbps (since there is only one channel, it's
the same quality as SP stereo but has no stereo soundstage), which, by taking
the space where SP stereo would have one second's audio for each of two chan-
nels and using it for two seconds' worth of audio for each of two channels,
takes up half the space of the same duration in SP stereo.
LP2 at roughly 132 kbps (stereo at 66 kbps per channel) has the same capacity
as SP mono but at lower quality than the SP modes.
LP4 is joint stereo at roughly 66 kbps; it has quadruple the capacity of SP
stereo -- double that of SP mono or LP2 -- but the lowest quality of all.
The plurality of us feel that LP4 is acceptable for spoken-word recordings or
for music to be played in the background but not really good enough for music
that one will listen to attentively.
Tracks in different modes can be recorded onto the same disc, but segments in
different modes cannot be joined into the same track.
| I want to avoid having to use a seperate coax-optical SPDIF converter (like
| the Midiman CO2) - since this is a portable setup, a minimum of hardware
| would be great.
Then you're probably out of luck. I doubt that any portable MD recorder
exists that takes coax S/PDIF input. Certainly no consumer-grade portable
does, and if there is a pro-grade portable MD recorder with coax input, you
said you don't want to spend that much.
You could get a consumer-grade deck with coax input, but that conflicts with
your intent to keep down the weight and size of the system. Two of my decks
support coaxial digital input, but I wouldn't want to carty them around for
portable recording.
Suggestion: get a portable recorder, use a regular microphone with analog
output, and rely on the recorder's on-board ADC. Insisting on your outboard
ADC is just causing complications, adding bulk, and possibly cheating you out
of one generation under SCMS.
j...@mich.com
On 2001-08-08 kra...@en.com said:
>I am looking for a Minidisc player that has a coaxial instead of
>optical SPDIF input for recording purposes. I plan on hooking up a
>A-D converter ( M-audio USB Duo when its released ) with its own
>microphones attached - it'll make a great portable high quality
>personal recording setup.
Well, some of the professional units do have SP/DIF as well as optical
and non USA decks may well have it as well (USA decks have optical only)
However a SP/DIF to Optical (one way) Converter can be purchased from
http://www.soundprofessionals.com and it will take care of the conversion
for you very nicely. I've got one, the design is similar to the "Build it
yourself" unit that you can find on http://www.minidisc.org (Hacking,
construction) it's very stable and not very picky about input.
Or for about fifty bucks you can get a MIdiman converter, it goes both ways
Optical to SP/dif SP/dif to optical and I think multiple inputs and outputs
as well. (Sound professionals has them too)
John F Davis, WA8YXM, In Delightful Detroit, aa...@detroit.freenet.org
"Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business"
Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered
DWT
j...@mich.com wrote in <tn2o134...@corp.supernews.com>:
| Well, some of the professional units do have SP/DIF as well as optical ...
| However a SP/DIF to Optical (one way) Converter ...
| Or for about fifty bucks you can get a MIdiman converter, it goes both ways
| Optical to SP/dif SP/dif to optical ...
Don't speak of S/PDIF (the slash goes between the first two letters; it
stands for Sony/Philips Digital Interchange Format or something very close to
that) and optical as if they were two different things. Optical is a form
of S/PDIF.
S/PDIF is a protocol for representing audio digitally for transmission
between devices. The resulting ones and zeroes can be represented
electrically (and carried on coaxial cable with an RCA phono connector at
each end) or optically (and carried on fiber cables with a TOSlink connector
or an optical miniplug at each end).
Optical and coaxial are both S/PDIF. The term "S/PDIF" is not limited to
coaxial electrical S/PDIF.
Walter Knapp
Only choice I know of in a up to date portable would be the HHb
Portadisc, which is the recorder I use. It has analog I/O (XLR balanced,
phantom power switchable), Coax digital I/O, Optical digital I/O, and
USB audio I/O. Not cheap, however, it's a pro recorder, not consumer
gear. Excellent portable recorder! I doubt you would even find it
necessary to go to a external A-D. Sink the money for those extras into
better quality mics.
Note all the LP modes are much worse sound quality than Standard ATRAC.
If looking for the highest quality sound possible, don't bother with
MDLP. It's there for people that consider record length more important
than sound quality.
Note also the sound quality you get will be dependent on the entire
sound chain, ATRAC is only one component of this, and probably not the
most important one. Mics and pre's probably are the most important part.
Especially at consumer prices.
j...@mich.com
On 2001-08-10 dat...@yahoo.com said:
>Don't speak of S/PDIF (the slash goes between the first two
>letters; it stands for Sony/Phillips Digital Interchange Format or
>something very close to that) and optical as if they were two
>different things. Optical is a form of S/PDIF.
Actually it would be more correct to say Optical CAN BE a form of S/Pdif. I've
a device upstairs that outputs optical in 2 different formats, One of them is
S/Pdif, the other is not. (It's the format used by Dolby Surround Sound boxes)
I was simply following the convention layed down by the original poster in
order to avoid confusion in his mind, Sorry if he confused you
StArSeEd
> Actually it would be more correct to say Optical CAN BE a form of S/Pdif. I've
> a device upstairs that outputs optical in 2 different formats, One of them is
> S/Pdif, the other is not. (It's the format used by Dolby Surround Sound boxes)
Actually, I believe that's S/PDIF too, the data itself is just not PCM; it's AC-3 encoded,
5.1-channel, compressed, and encrypted. You're correct about the CAN part though: think
ADAT.
-StArSeEd
--
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star...@shaolindeathsquad.com
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David W. Tamkin
| I was simply following the convention layed down by the original poster in
| order to avoid confusion in his mind, Sorry if he confused you
No, John; Michael used the phrases "coaxial instead of optical SPDIF" and
"coax-optical SPDIF converter." Except for the minor detail of leaving out
the slash, he had it right. (One could, if anything, parse those expres-
sions to say he thought that *coax* wasn't S/PDIF, but one can also parse
them to show proper understanding.) He wasn't confused, and neither was I.
And suppose he had used the terms incorrectly: it would have been wrong to
"follow his convention" in a follow-up instead of using them properly.
j...@mich.com
On 2001-08-11 star...@shaolindeathsquad.comegetsome said:
>> a device upstairs that outputs optical in 2 different formats,
>>One of them is S/Pdif, the other is not. (It's the format used by
>Dolby Surround Sound boxes)
>Actually, I believe that's S/PDIF too, the data itself is just not
>PCM; it's AC-3 encoded,
>5.1-channel, compressed, and encrypted. You're correct about the
>CAN part though: think
>ADAT.
I recently saw my heart beat sent over an optical link But it was IRDA not
S/Pdif. Fact is that in use fiberglass is a bit like copper, You can send
data down it in any format you wish. (And yes, optical cable was used on the
IRda link, It was not sent through Air.)
The proper terms would be optical and coax