She Said "Yes" in my college newspaper

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Medieval Knievel

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Jan 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/23/00
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The ...uhhh...newspaper at my college ran a syrupy story on Cassie Bernall
and the "she said 'yes' urban legend as if it were true. Could have been
written by Boatwright. Here's my reply, which I am sending along with
stories from Salon Magazine and the Denver Post debunking the story.

To the editor:

I found Aimee Watson's story on Cassie Bernall, one of the victims of
the Columbine High School mass murder, quite interesting. Aimee writes that
when she was asked if she believed in God, Bernall answered "yes"and was
subsequently killed. Ms. Watson states in her article that she has sought
out all the information about Cassie Bernall that she could. It's
interesting, then, that she didn't learn that Cassie didn't "say yes,"
because the shooter never asked her this question.
Articles in the Rocky Mountain News, Salon Magazine, and the Denver
Post all point to this story being false. Eyewitnesses near Cassie Bernall
at the time of her shooting deny having heard either shooter ask her this
question. This apocryphal story is attributed to an acquaintance of Cassie
who wasn't even in the library at the time.
Bernall's parents were negotiating a book contract before her body was
even cold. Does this make them some sort of cynical monsters exploiting
their child's death, or were their motives good, or even simply misguided?
Only they can really say. Yet, there are websites and stores selling
merchandise about Cassie Bernall, such as shirts, stickers, and the like.
Not all of the profit from these items is going to help the Bernall family,
or any other victim's family. The people selling such merchandise are
vultures, in my opinion.
In a zealous rush to hold Cassie Bernall up as a Christian martyr, a
falsehood is being spread. This is more along the lines of an urban legend
than a malicious lie. But the results of any falsehood are more important
than the intent behind them. The important lessons of Columbine are being
ignored, chiefly that our society is faced with violence in ways that it was
never faced before. These are the real effects of Columbine that need to be
addressed. It's a shame that some people have chosen to create a whole
mythology around this young woman, regardless of the facts. Ms. Watson
needs to conduct her research more thoroughly, obviously. I find this
article disrespectful, dishonest, and gruesome. Let the girl rest in peace.

--
Medieval Knievel-sold more albums than Elvis and the
Beatles combined! ULC ordained minister.
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FaithHurst

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Jan 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/23/00
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Well said! We should just copy this and send it to every publication still
trying to push this myth as truth. I recently was clicking past one of the
religious channels and they were presenting it the same way. The response I
was going to send isn't as calm as yours, though.


>Subject: She Said "Yes" in my college newspaper
>From: "Medieval Knievel" smell_of_...@hotmail.com
>Date: Sun, 23 January 2000 03:51 PM EST
>Message-id: <s8mq7u...@corp.supernews.com>

ClayeSkye
#4 (Head of EAC Department of Education/Reeducation)
I still believe that I cannot be saved-Smashing Pumpkins
Rednecks didn't do this. Rednecks aren't this creative-Michael, The Blair
Witch Project

Chani

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Jan 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/23/00
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"Medieval Knievel" <smell_of_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s8mq7u...@corp.supernews.com...

Very well written.

Hey, do you think that in a few hundred years, people will be worshipping
this girl as a god? I wonder if this is how Jesus got his start.

--

Chani, atheist #1118
Head of the EAC! (Why? Because I said so!!)
cov...@ableweb.net ICQ 12345332
http://home.talkcity.com/BlabWay/chanileslie/cloverlief.html
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insanity. I have erased this line.
-- Oscar Levant
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yang hu

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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Newsweek and Time Magazine also reported that the Cassie Bernal
martyrdom story as being inaccurate, One wonders just how thorough Ms.
Watson was with her quest to "sought out all the information"

>--
>Medieval Knievel-sold more albums than Elvis and the
>Beatles combined! ULC ordained minister.
> ICQ# 26667824 aa# 1552
>Remove NOSPAM from the e-mail address to reply
>Cut toenails straight across to avoid ingrowth
>Friends don't let friends sign up for AOL
>
>


Yang
a.a.#28
EAC mole and other furry creatures
rev #-273.15, high priest of the most frigid church of Kelvin


"A few highly respected monotheists would have told me quietly and firmly that God did not really exist - and yet that "he" was the most important reality in the world."

-Karen Armstrong, "A History of God"

Patrick Alexander

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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Chani <ath...@thereisnogod.com> wrote:

: Hey, do you think that in a few hundred years, people will be worshipping


: this girl as a god? I wonder if this is how Jesus got his start.

I give it less than a year before at least one bunch of crackpots
"proves" that Jesus was really born on April 20th, 2 b.c. (or 1 b.c.,
depending on how stupid they are), and that this girl was really Jesus'
second coming, and that he didn't do the whole Armageddon thing 'cause we
are yet unworthy, so he died for our sins again instead.

Patrick Alexander


"Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

--Shakespeare

MagyckMe

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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yangh@***uci***.edu (yang hu) writes:

>Newsweek and Time Magazine also reported that the
>Cassie Bernal martyrdom story as being inaccurate,
>One wonders just how thorough Ms. Watson was with
>her quest to "sought out all the information"

And so did "People" magazine. Interestingly, I recall
an article wherein the reporter questioned the
Bernalls about the issue of their erroneous claims, and
the response was basically, "Well, it doesn't really
matter as long as it serves to bring more people to
Jesus." Hey, at least they're honest. <cough>

Magyck
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
aa #554 ~ BAAWA's Princess Pissed ~ EAC #i ~ Gotaclueist #4
"Even chaos has a pattern." Sticker
"I speak the way, and the way is open." Louise Cooper
"Ah, but who created chaos?" Lawyers Everywhere

Elf Sternberg

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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In article <s8mq7u...@corp.supernews.com>
"Medieval Knievel" <smell_of_...@hotmail.com> writes:

>The ...uhhh...newspaper at my college ran a syrupy story on Cassie Bernall
>and the "she said 'yes' urban legend as if it were true. Could have been

>written by Boatwright. Here's my reply.

And a total "Bravo!" to you, MK, for saying it in exactly the
right way. By pointing out that this continued propagation of the lie
is ghoulish and crass, you've struck the best chord on behalf of
giving Cassie the peace she deserves.

Elf

--
Elf M. Sternberg, rational romantic mystic cynical idealist
MST3K - Help save the saving grace of television.
A.A 1493 http://www.halcyon.com/elf/

Terry Eden

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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yang hu <yangh@***uci***.edu> wrote in message
news:388bdc3a...@news.service.uci.edu...

> Newsweek and Time Magazine also reported that the Cassie Bernal
> martyrdom story as being inaccurate, One wonders just how thorough Ms.
> Watson was with her quest to "sought out all the information"

These were the only links that I could find to refute the story. I spent
about 3 hours searching - if anyone has any more, I'd be gratful to see
them.

Terry
tse...@chat.carleton.DELETE_THIS.ca


Time Magazine
http://www.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,35832,00.html

Denver Post Online
http://uss001.infi.net/denver/post/news/shot0925.htm

Infidels (Quotes from daily US newspapers)
http://www.infidels.org/secular_web/feature/1999/carrier1.html
The above article is actually quite a bit harsher toward the story than it
need be. The author has made a post-script apology. You can also read and
send feedback to him at
http://www.infidels.org/infidels/feedback/1999/september.html

Terry Eden

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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Terry Eden <tse...@chat.carleton.delete_this.ca> wrote in message
news:86idcu$4hq$1...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca...

> yang hu <yangh@***uci***.edu> wrote in message
> news:388bdc3a...@news.service.uci.edu...
> > Newsweek and Time Magazine also reported that the Cassie Bernal
> > martyrdom story as being inaccurate, One wonders just how thorough Ms.
> > Watson was with her quest to "sought out all the information"
>
> These were the only links that I could find to refute the story. I spent
> about 3 hours searching - if anyone has any more, I'd be gratful to see
> them.
>
> Terry
> tse...@chat.carleton.DELETE_THIS.ca

Found some more!

Washington Post
http://www.jg.net/jg/features/livla.htm

Time Magazine
http://www.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,35832,00.html

CNN
http://cnn.com/US/9909/28/columbine.martyr.ap/index.html

ABCNews
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/columbine990928.html

Straight Answers
http://www.sipu.com/sa/essays/stcassie.html

Salon
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/index.html
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/23/columbine/index1.html

stoney

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:53:57 -0800, "Chani" <ath...@thereisnogod.com>
wrote:

]>
]>"Medieval Knievel" <smell_of_...@hotmail.com> wrote in

(snip)

]>> It's a shame that some people have chosen to create a whole


]>> mythology around this young woman, regardless of the facts. Ms.
]>>Watson needs to conduct her research more thoroughly, obviously.
]>>I find this article disrespectful, dishonest, and gruesome. Let
]>>the girl rest in peace.

]>
]>Very well written.
]>
]>Hey, do you think that in a few hundred years, people will be


]>worshipping this girl as a god?

Godess.

]> I wonder if this is how Jesus got his start.

Probably. Tis a gruesome business-giving birth to a new deity
construct.

Stoney

Paul Wenthold

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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Terry Eden wrote:
>

> Found some more!
>
> Washington Post
> http://www.jg.net/jg/features/livla.htm
>

This one says all that needs to be said:

"You will never change the story of
Cassie," says Dave McPherson, the pastor
at the Bernalls' church.

To illustrate how far it has gone, he tells a
story of traveling to a remote church in
Sudan a few months after the shooting.
The congregation's first request was that he
tell the story of Saint Cassie.

"The church," he says, by which he means
Catholic and Protestant, worldwide, "is
going to stick to the martyr story. It's the
story they heard first, and circulated for six
months uncontested.

"You can say it didn't happen that way, but
the church won't accept it. To the church,
Cassie will always say yes, period."


paul

Carl Christensen

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:51:25 -0600, "Medieval Knievel"
<smell_of_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The ...uhhh...newspaper at my college ran a syrupy story on Cassie Bernall
>and the "she said 'yes' urban legend as if it were true. Could have been
>written by Boatwright. Here's my reply, which I am sending along with
>stories from Salon Magazine and the Denver Post debunking the story.

jeez, what school is this? Is there a journalism department? Did
they ever hear of "fact checking?" I could see if this was a whining
"Letter's to the Editor" but to run a story like that (outside of Oral
Roberts Unviersity) is pretty weak. Do they let Hindu & Muslim
students write about their martyr's also?


Carl Christensen

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 05:01:25 GMT, yangh@***uci***.edu (yang hu) wrote:
>Newsweek and Time Magazine also reported that the Cassie Bernal
>martyrdom story as being inaccurate, One wonders just how thorough Ms.
>Watson was with her quest to "sought out all the information"

That says a lot since those mags continually have populist "feel good"
articles masquerading as journalism, e.g. "The Power of Prayer" etc.
I think the worst is US News & World Report; they really seem to have
an almost fundie-slant. I remember an editorial piece about "how
Christians are the only group in the US it's OK to persecute." So
where the hell is this left-wing liberal media? I've been trying to
find it! :-)


Carl Christensen

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Jan 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/24/00
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:03:15 -0500, Paul Wenthold <p...@purdue.edu>
wrote:

>"You can say it didn't happen that way, but
>the church won't accept it. To the church,
>Cassie will always say yes, period."

well now we all know why the church has so many damn saints!


Skypher

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Jan 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/25/00
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Subject: Re: She Said "Yes" in my college newspaper
From: Patrick Alexander yaro...@sietch.bloomington.in.us
Date: Mon, 24 January 2000 12:07 PM EST
Message-id: <86i0rt$r01$1...@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>

Chani <ath...@thereisnogod.com> wrote:

: Hey, do you think that in a few hundred years, people will be worshipping
: this girl as a god? I wonder if this is how Jesus got his start.

I give it less than a year before at least one bunch of crackpots
"proves" that Jesus was really born on April 20th, 2 b.c. (or 1 b.c.,
depending on how stupid they are), and that this girl was really Jesus'
second coming, and that he didn't do the whole Armageddon thing 'cause we
are yet unworthy, so he died for our sins again instead.

Skypher replies :
I give it at least 100 years before everyone believes the holocaust to be a
myth.

Medieval Knievel

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Jan 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/25/00
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Carl Christensen <car...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> jeez, what school is this? Is there a journalism department? Did
> they ever hear of "fact checking?" I could see if this was a whining
> "Letter's to the Editor" but to run a story like that (outside of Oral
> Roberts Unviersity) is pretty weak. Do they let Hindu & Muslim
> students write about their martyr's also?
>

Cameron University in Lawton, OK. Incredibly lax admission standards--it's
where a lot of students end up if they flunk out of OU or OSU or some other
school. The newspaper staff has a definite fundamentalist xian agenda this
year. They run a weekly page called "Faith" that has so far featured the
Bernall story, and another one about the "Baptist Student Union," which is
like a meeting place for fundies right off the campus about a block. I'd
like to submit an article about faith in the principles of logic and reason.
I'm just waiting for a column about how some moron knows that evolution
didn't happen.

PHandlson

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Jan 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/25/00
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>Aimee writes that when [Cassie Bernall]
>was asked if she believed in God, [she] answered "yes"and was

>subsequently killed. Ms. Watson states in her article that she has sought
>out all the information about Cassie Bernall that she could. It's
>interesting, then, that she didn't learn that Cassie didn't "say yes,"
>because the shooter never asked her this question.
> Articles in the Rocky Mountain News, Salon Magazine, and the Denver
>Post all point to this story being false. Eyewitnesses near Cassie Bernall
>at the time of her shooting deny having heard either shooter ask her this
>question. This apocryphal story is attributed to an acquaintance of Cassie
>who wasn't even in the library at the time.

This is intersting. Newsweek was even wrose when they wrote about Columbine,
exagerating it to make Cassie say "There is a God, and you have to follow along
God's path" for dramatic reasons or something. I wonder if anything else about
Columbine is untrue.

I often wondered why it seemed that Cassie was the only one asked if she
believed in God, and why she just happened to be one of the most religous kids
in the school.

Patrick Alexander

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Jan 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/26/00
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Skypher <sky...@aol.com> wrote:

: Skypher replies :


: I give it at least 100 years before everyone believes the holocaust to be a
: myth.

Hopefully we won't ever sink *that* low.

Patrick Alexander


"Lover of the black and white - - - - - it's your first night.
The Passion Play / goes all the way / spoils your insight."

--Jethro Tull

yang hu

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Jan 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/26/00
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On 25 Jan 2000 11:08:13 GMT, sky...@aol.com (Skypher) wrote:


>Chani <ath...@thereisnogod.com> wrote:
>
>: Hey, do you think that in a few hundred years, people will be worshipping
>: this girl as a god? I wonder if this is how Jesus got his start.

> Skypher replies :
>I give it at least 100 years before everyone believes the holocaust to be a
>myth.


What is it with Christians equating completely unrelated things? First
you have the LA times cartoonist equating homosexuality with
bestiality, then you have skypher here equating the *documented* urban
legend of Cassie Bernal with the holocaust?

Cyclone Ambiguous

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Jan 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/26/00
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>> Skypher replies :
>>I give it at least 100 years before everyone believes the holocaust to be a
>>myth.
>

I suppose Skypher doesn't seriously believe the American Revolution happened,
either.

Cyclone Ambiguous
In prophecy of FF9's main character
Sadist in Chief of the EAC and High Bakesale Coordinator
AGFF Neutral Guy (think of me as Switzerland, kay?)
Wondering why AOL limits me to a 254 character sig in ngs

Greg Shelley

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Jan 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/26/00
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yang hu wrote:
> you have skypher here equating the *documented* urban
> legend of Cassie Bernal with the holocaust?

To be fair, I thought Skypher was equating people believing God/Jesus
to be a myth with believing the holocaust to be a myth. But perhaps
I'm just being to charitable. Of course, given her recent claim and
subsequent bizzarre retraction that she'd kill without conscience if
God wasn't holding her back, I'd not put anything past her

--
Greg #1636

Al Klein

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Jan 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/26/00
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On 25 Jan 2000 21:29:45 GMT, phan...@aol.com (PHandlson) wrote:

>I often wondered why it seemed that Cassie was the only one asked if she
>believed in God

It was a mixup. One of the girls WAS asked whether she believed in
god. The boy telling the story got either (I'm not sure any more) the
name of the person who was asked or the table the person who was asked
was under wrong. He corrected his error a few days later.
--
Al - Unnumbered Atheist #infinity
aklein at villagenet dot com

chibiabos

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Jan 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/28/00
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In article <20000126024405...@ng-cm1.aol.com>, Cyclone
Ambiguous <sma...@aol.comeangetme> wrote:

> >> Skypher replies :
> >>I give it at least 100 years before everyone believes the holocaust to be a
> >>myth.
> >
>

> I suppose Skypher doesn't seriously believe the American Revolution happened,
> either.

My presumption is that she does, but that the outcome was this
'Christian nation' of ours.

-chib

>
> Cyclone Ambiguous
> In prophecy of FF9's main character
> Sadist in Chief of the EAC and High Bakesale Coordinator
> AGFF Neutral Guy (think of me as Switzerland, kay?)
> Wondering why AOL limits me to a 254 character sig in ngs

--
wild(at our first)beasts uttered human words
--our second coming made stones sing like birds--
but o the starhushed silence which our third's
--e.e. cummings

stoney

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Jan 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/28/00
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On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:06:51 -0500, nxy...@ivyyntrarg.com (Al Klein)
wrote:

]>On 25 Jan 2000 21:29:45 GMT, phan...@aol.com (PHandlson) wrote:
]>
]>>I often wondered why it seemed that Cassie was the only one asked
if she
]>>believed in God
]>
]>It was a mixup. One of the girls WAS asked whether she believed in
]>god. The boy telling the story got either (I'm not sure any more)
]>the name of the person who was asked or the table the person who was
]>asked was under wrong. He corrected his error a few days later.

IIRC, he accidentally pointed to the wrong table. It was discovered
later on a moment by moment reconstruction during the investigation.

Stoney

Skypher

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Jan 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/29/00
to
To be fair, I thought Skypher was equating people believing God/Jesus
to be a myth with believing the holocaust to be a myth. But perhaps
I'm just being to charitable. Of course, given her recent claim and
subsequent bizzarre retraction that she'd kill without conscience if
God wasn't holding her back, I'd not put anything past her

--
Greg #1636


Skypher replies :
I thought you people were supposed to use logic all the time but it seems that
was false stereotype because you couldn't even figure out that I was being
sarcastic to prove a point.

Anyway lots of people kill without conscience--abortion, death penalty, war.

Skypher

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Jan 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/29/00
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Smapti said :

I suppose Skypher doesn't seriously believe the American Revolution happened,
either.

Skypher replies :
LOL... prove that it did.

Michael Painter

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Jan 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/29/00
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"Skypher" <sky...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000129002041...@ng-ck1.aol.com...

You have obviously never talked with anybody involved with any of those
things, and probably would not understand if you did.
The death penalty here in America (Somewhat redundant since most civilized
countries have abandoned it.) has been cut back quit a bit and never was as
bad as what is *required* by your bible.

Al Klein

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Jan 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/29/00
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On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:14:35 -0800, stoney <sto...@stoneynet.net>
wrote:

Your memory for detail is better than mine.

Decimal

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Jan 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/30/00
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Medieval Knievel wrote:
>
> Carl Christensen <car...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> Cameron University in Lawton, OK. Incredibly lax admission
> standards--it's where a lot of students end up if they flunk out of OU
> or OSU or some other school. The newspaper staff has a definite
> fundamentalist xian agenda this year. They run a weekly page called
> "Faith" that has so far featured the Bernall story, and another one
> about the "Baptist Student Union," which is like a meeting place for
> fundies right off the campus about a block. I'd like to submit an
> article about faith in the principles of logic and reason. I'm just
> waiting for a column about how some moron knows that evolution didn't
> happen.

Did they run your article?


-- Decimal [a.a. #482]

"An eye for an eye guarantees nothing but blindness."
-- Charles Xavier, X-MEN comics

The correct prefix for the return address is 'marble'.

Medieval Knievel

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Jan 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/30/00
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Decimal <not...@centuryinter.net> wrote in message

> Did they run your article?

We'll see this week. The <snort, chortle> paper comes out on Fridays, and
we had inclement weather cancellation of classes for that day.

The previous week (I may have mentioned this already) the "Fath" page editor
ran an article about "Christian weight loss programs," so I would assume she
thinks everyone else is losing weight for Satan.

stoney

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Jan 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/30/00
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:09:45 -0500, nxy...@ivyyntrarg.com (Al Klein)
wrote:

]>On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:14:35 -0800, stoney <sto...@stoneynet.net>

Ummm...doubt it. I just got lucky. I'm medically certified as
sufferig from CRS (can't remember shit).

Seriously, the memory circuits are all trashed.
Customization by crunch happens. :\
Stoney

stoney

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Jan 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/30/00
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:44:28 -0800, "Michael Painter"
<mpai...@inreach.com> wrote:

]>
]>"Skypher" <sky...@aol.com> wrote in message

America is becoming civilized in spite of the fundies.

Stoney


Al Klein

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Jan 31, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/31/00
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:50:15 -0800, stoney <sto...@stoneynet.net>
wrote:

>Seriously, the memory circuits are all trashed.

We have the same designer. :)

stoney

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Feb 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/1/00
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On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:02:41 -0500, nxy...@ivyyntrarg.com (Al Klein)
wrote:

]>On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:50:15 -0800, stoney <sto...@stoneynet.net>


]>wrote:
]>
]>>Seriously, the memory circuits are all trashed.
]>
]>We have the same designer. :)

Only if yours got customized by 'crunch'.... :)

Stoney

Al Klein

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Feb 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/2/00
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:16:29 -0800, stoney <sto...@stoneynet.net>
wrote:

I think mine got crunched by Alzheimer.

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