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What is Hell about?
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Kaiser
Apr 8, 2013, 3:08:01 PM4/8/13
to
Hell is about escaping from Hell, it is not about sex and
women and breeding.
Hell is about believing in God and knowing the religions to
be false, it is not about the religions of earth nor about
atheism.
If you do not escape from Hell after your current life, then
you are reincarnated back into Hell in your next life.
And as things degenerate and get worse and worse in Hell
because of the women, that is YOUR FUTURE. That is the Hell
you will be born back into tomorrow.
So if you do not do something today, then you must face the
consequences tomorrow.
These are Messages from God.
You can listen to them and change and make things better.
Or you can ignore them, and things will get worse and worse.
The choice is yours.
But people do get what they deserve.
What do you think people deserve when they do not listen to
God and do not obey God????
What do you think people deserve when they are rude and
abusive to God and use obscene language to God???
What do you think people deserve when they blaspheme against
Angels and portray them as women which is the hugely
degenerate form of the male where very bad men were stripped
of their manhood???
What do you think people deserve when they are cruel to
animals and creatures or when they murder unborn children at
the rate of millions per year??? And they even sanction and
legalize the murder of unborn children???
Hell is a very bad place full of very bad people.
And the longer they are bad people, and not good people,
then the longer they will have to stay in Hell.
It is up to the people whether they read these Messages from
God and LEARN from them.
The aim of Hell is to escape from Hell.
And we have told you how.
Wise are the men who listen to us.
Fools are they who ignore God.
women and breeding.
Hell is about believing in God and knowing the religions to
be false, it is not about the religions of earth nor about
atheism.
If you do not escape from Hell after your current life, then
you are reincarnated back into Hell in your next life.
And as things degenerate and get worse and worse in Hell
because of the women, that is YOUR FUTURE. That is the Hell
you will be born back into tomorrow.
So if you do not do something today, then you must face the
consequences tomorrow.
These are Messages from God.
You can listen to them and change and make things better.
Or you can ignore them, and things will get worse and worse.
The choice is yours.
But people do get what they deserve.
What do you think people deserve when they do not listen to
God and do not obey God????
What do you think people deserve when they are rude and
abusive to God and use obscene language to God???
What do you think people deserve when they blaspheme against
Angels and portray them as women which is the hugely
degenerate form of the male where very bad men were stripped
of their manhood???
What do you think people deserve when they are cruel to
animals and creatures or when they murder unborn children at
the rate of millions per year??? And they even sanction and
legalize the murder of unborn children???
Hell is a very bad place full of very bad people.
And the longer they are bad people, and not good people,
then the longer they will have to stay in Hell.
It is up to the people whether they read these Messages from
God and LEARN from them.
The aim of Hell is to escape from Hell.
And we have told you how.
Wise are the men who listen to us.
Fools are they who ignore God.
Kaiser
Apr 8, 2013, 3:25:12 PM4/8/13
to
Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
those kind of things only exist in Hell.
Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
bad people are sent.
Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
So do not complain about life in Hell.
But make your best effort to escape.
Women can become men if they are very, very good.
Black men can become white men if they are very, very good.
Short men can become tall men, ugly men can become
attractive men.
You must work your way up until you are in the Prime and
First form of the beautiful white man.
The First Form.
The shape and form of God and Angels.
And from there you can make your escape.
If you know how!
And all the secrets and tips are in these Messages.
But bear in mind that white men who behave very badly can be
reborn as black men.
Tall men can become short men, attractive men can become
ugly men.
And in worst case scenario, a man can be stripped of his
manhood and be turned into a woman.
You can go up or you can go down in Hell.
Make sure you go up.
And aim for ESCAPE!
Make a concerted effort to get out of Hell.
Because that is what life on Earth is all about.
That is the meaning of life on Earth.
That is the whole point of life on Earth.
To Escape.
those kind of things only exist in Hell.
Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
bad people are sent.
Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
So do not complain about life in Hell.
But make your best effort to escape.
Women can become men if they are very, very good.
Black men can become white men if they are very, very good.
Short men can become tall men, ugly men can become
attractive men.
You must work your way up until you are in the Prime and
First form of the beautiful white man.
The First Form.
The shape and form of God and Angels.
And from there you can make your escape.
If you know how!
And all the secrets and tips are in these Messages.
But bear in mind that white men who behave very badly can be
reborn as black men.
Tall men can become short men, attractive men can become
ugly men.
And in worst case scenario, a man can be stripped of his
manhood and be turned into a woman.
You can go up or you can go down in Hell.
Make sure you go up.
And aim for ESCAPE!
Make a concerted effort to get out of Hell.
Because that is what life on Earth is all about.
That is the meaning of life on Earth.
That is the whole point of life on Earth.
To Escape.
M Purcell
Apr 8, 2013, 3:54:53 PM4/8/13
to
On Apr 8, 12:25 pm, "Kaiser" <a...@powerful.com> wrote:
> Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
> those kind of things only exist in Hell.
>
> Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
> Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
> bad people are sent.
> Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
>
> So do not complain about life in Hell.
> But make your best effort to escape.
Gotta go where the jobs are.
> Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
> those kind of things only exist in Hell.
>
> Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
> Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
> bad people are sent.
> Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
>
> So do not complain about life in Hell.
> But make your best effort to escape.
http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2012/10/neolithic-cave-in-greece-was-gateway-to.html
Sir Fred M. McNeill
Apr 8, 2013, 4:08:04 PM4/8/13
to
comes easy. Especially personification, normalization, and
retribution stories.
M Purcell
Apr 8, 2013, 5:07:37 PM4/8/13
to
On Apr 8, 1:08 pm, Sir Fred M. McNeill <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
a human being is capable of a truly meaningless act.
> On Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:54:53 -0700 (PDT), M Purcell <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 8, 12:25 pm, "Kaiser" <a...@powerful.com> wrote:
> >> Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
> >> those kind of things only exist in Hell.
>
> >> Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
> >> Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
> >> bad people are sent.
> >> Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
>
> >> So do not complain about life in Hell.
> >> But make your best effort to escape.
>
> >Gotta go where the jobs are.
>
> >http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2012/10/neolithic-cave-in-...
> >On Apr 8, 12:25 pm, "Kaiser" <a...@powerful.com> wrote:
> >> Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
> >> those kind of things only exist in Hell.
>
> >> Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
> >> Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
> >> bad people are sent.
> >> Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
>
> >> So do not complain about life in Hell.
> >> But make your best effort to escape.
>
> >Gotta go where the jobs are.
>
>
> 'Humans' need their stories. Thus, confabulating stories
> comes easy. Especially personification, normalization, and
> retribution stories.
Your confabulation of ideas defies any attempt at communication, thus
> 'Humans' need their stories. Thus, confabulating stories
> comes easy. Especially personification, normalization, and
> retribution stories.
a human being is capable of a truly meaningless act.
Dare
Apr 8, 2013, 6:42:11 PM4/8/13
to
"M Purcell" <sacs...@aol.com> wrote in message news:04f7e216-2193-45e2...@q6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Hell can be within the "cave" of your own mind(thoughts).
Perhaps in that case, you see Hell everywhere.
The only escape may be changing your "mind"....
before other change will be effective.
Perhaps in that case, you see Hell everywhere.
The only escape may be changing your "mind"....
before other change will be effective.
M Purcell
Apr 8, 2013, 8:28:42 PM4/8/13
to
On Apr 8, 3:42 pm, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:04f7e216-2193-45e2...@q6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
assign it however the collapse at the entrance of this cave did bury
the occupants alive, presumably they were optimistic about it's
integrity.
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:04f7e216-2193-45e2...@q6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Apr 8, 12:25 pm, "Kaiser" <a...@powerful.com> wrote:
>
> > > Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
> > > those kind of things only exist in Hell.
>
> > > Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
> > > Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
> > > bad people are sent.
> > > Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
>
> > > So do not complain about life in Hell.
> > > But make your best effort to escape.
>
> > Gotta go where the jobs are.
>
> >http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2012/10/neolithic-cave-in-...
> On Apr 8, 12:25 pm, "Kaiser" <a...@powerful.com> wrote:
>
> > > Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
> > > those kind of things only exist in Hell.
>
> > > Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
> > > Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
> > > bad people are sent.
> > > Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
>
> > > So do not complain about life in Hell.
> > > But make your best effort to escape.
>
> > Gotta go where the jobs are.
>
>
> Hell can be within the "cave" of your own mind(thoughts).
> Perhaps in that case, you see Hell everywhere.
> The only escape may be changing your "mind"....
> before other change will be effective.
A cave is just a cave despite any attributes a person might want to
> Hell can be within the "cave" of your own mind(thoughts).
> Perhaps in that case, you see Hell everywhere.
> The only escape may be changing your "mind"....
> before other change will be effective.
assign it however the collapse at the entrance of this cave did bury
the occupants alive, presumably they were optimistic about it's
integrity.
TruthSlave
Apr 8, 2013, 8:58:30 PM4/8/13
to
on experience before the reality of that ideas. One escape Hell
through the sanctuary offered by religion. Here religion is about
an idea of obedience to authority, or discipline within a group.
These ideas are emergent out of chaos, to create a necessary
precept of order for civilization. Which is quite an irony given
our current trends. 'there is no such thing as society', this
old quote, only coming to light with time, as society is made
into an everyman-for-himself free-for-all, and the individual
is again left to fend for himself against margret forces.. ;)
M Purcell
Apr 9, 2013, 11:53:24 PM4/9/13
to
On Apr 8, 3:42 pm, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:04f7e216-2193-45e2...@q6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Apr 8, 12:25 pm, "Kaiser" <a...@powerful.com> wrote:
>
> > > Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
> > > those kind of things only exist in Hell.
>
> > > Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
> > > Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
> > > bad people are sent.
> > > Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
>
> > > So do not complain about life in Hell.
> > > But make your best effort to escape.
>
> > Gotta go where the jobs are.
>
> >http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2012/10/neolithic-cave-in-...
> On Apr 8, 12:25 pm, "Kaiser" <a...@powerful.com> wrote:
>
> > > Old age, death, defecation, filth, cold, hunger, pain - all
> > > those kind of things only exist in Hell.
>
> > > Hell is not meant to be a nice place.
> > > Hell is meant to be a horrible place as it is where all the
> > > bad people are sent.
> > > Hell is supposed to be ugly and infested and diseased.
>
> > > So do not complain about life in Hell.
> > > But make your best effort to escape.
>
> > Gotta go where the jobs are.
>
>
> Hell can be within the "cave" of your own mind(thoughts).
> Perhaps in that case, you see Hell everywhere.
> The only escape may be changing your "mind"....
> before other change will be effective.
Cleanthes once opined that the wicked man is "like a dog tied to a
> Hell can be within the "cave" of your own mind(thoughts).
> Perhaps in that case, you see Hell everywhere.
> The only escape may be changing your "mind"....
> before other change will be effective.
cart, and compelled to go wherever it goes". Freedom consists of
making choices, something that is in constant assault.
Dare
Apr 10, 2013, 9:53:53 AM4/10/13
to
"M Purcell" <sacs...@aol.com> wrote in message news:bb199901-5bbb-4d68...@ul7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
is the will free, or is it determined by one's brain chemistry and structure
which may follow "natural laws" beyond human control/influence?
Is the "virtuous man" an accident of birth(chance) ....
the "wicked man" likewise formed by fate?
IOW....is Hell predetermined...or _can_ one escape?
On Apr 8, 3:42 pm, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:04f7e216-2193-45e2...@q6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:04f7e216-2193-45e2...@q6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Hell can be within the "cave" of your own mind(thoughts).
> > Perhaps in that case, you see Hell everywhere.
> > The only escape may be changing your "mind"....
> > before other change will be effective.
>
> Cleanthes once opined that the wicked man is "like a dog tied to a
> cart, and compelled to go wherever it goes". Freedom consists of
> making choices, something that is in constant assault.
How much freedom is possible in man's ability to make choices...
> > Perhaps in that case, you see Hell everywhere.
> > The only escape may be changing your "mind"....
> > before other change will be effective.
>
> Cleanthes once opined that the wicked man is "like a dog tied to a
> cart, and compelled to go wherever it goes". Freedom consists of
> making choices, something that is in constant assault.
is the will free, or is it determined by one's brain chemistry and structure
which may follow "natural laws" beyond human control/influence?
Is the "virtuous man" an accident of birth(chance) ....
the "wicked man" likewise formed by fate?
IOW....is Hell predetermined...or _can_ one escape?
M Purcell
Apr 10, 2013, 10:26:25 AM4/10/13
to
On Apr 10, 6:53 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:bb199901-5bbb-4d68...@ul7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
Stoics believed virtuous men exercised their will. In rejecting free
will, how is a man different from an animal?
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:bb199901-5bbb-4d68...@ul7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
will, how is a man different from an animal?
Dare
Apr 10, 2013, 11:35:34 AM4/10/13
to
"M Purcell" <sacs...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3299786b-207a-4489...@vq7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
As a human, I need to believe I have free will.
Perhaps a difference is that man has an innate feeling
of "right and wrong" that develops ethical behavior
and often a sense of "guilt" for wickedness...
which can create a living Hell.
Maybe those who have the Stoic ability to accept
cosmic determinism with equanimity and live
comfortably with nature's law have a feeling of
peace that such a freedom can bring.
On Apr 10, 6:53 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:bb199901-5bbb-4d68...@ul7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com
>
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:bb199901-5bbb-4d68...@ul7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com
>
> > > Cleanthes once opined that the wicked man is "like a dog tied to a
> > > cart, and compelled to go wherever it goes". Freedom consists of
> > > making choices, something that is in constant assault.
> >
> > How much freedom is possible in man's ability to make choices...
> > is the will free, or is it determined by one's brain chemistry and structure
> > which may follow "natural laws" beyond human control/influence?
> > Is the "virtuous man" an accident of birth(chance) ....
> > the "wicked man" likewise formed by fate?
> > IOW....is Hell predetermined...or _can_ one escape?
>
> Stoics believed virtuous men exercised their will. In rejecting free
> will, how is a man different from an animal?
That's a good question...
> > > cart, and compelled to go wherever it goes". Freedom consists of
> > > making choices, something that is in constant assault.
> >
> > How much freedom is possible in man's ability to make choices...
> > is the will free, or is it determined by one's brain chemistry and structure
> > which may follow "natural laws" beyond human control/influence?
> > Is the "virtuous man" an accident of birth(chance) ....
> > the "wicked man" likewise formed by fate?
> > IOW....is Hell predetermined...or _can_ one escape?
>
> Stoics believed virtuous men exercised their will. In rejecting free
> will, how is a man different from an animal?
As a human, I need to believe I have free will.
Perhaps a difference is that man has an innate feeling
of "right and wrong" that develops ethical behavior
and often a sense of "guilt" for wickedness...
which can create a living Hell.
Maybe those who have the Stoic ability to accept
cosmic determinism with equanimity and live
comfortably with nature's law have a feeling of
peace that such a freedom can bring.
M Purcell
Apr 10, 2013, 12:05:23 PM4/10/13
to
On Apr 10, 8:35 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:3299786b-207a-4489...@vq7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe those who have the Stoic ability to accept
> cosmic determinism with equanimity and live
> comfortably with nature's law have a feeling of
> peace that such a freedom can bring.
There seems to be an echo of this philosophy in the Serenity Prayer:
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference."
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:3299786b-207a-4489...@vq7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Apr 10, 6:53 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:bb199901-5bbb-4d68...@ul7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com
>
> > > > Cleanthes once opined that the wicked man is "like a dog tied to a
> > > > cart, and compelled to go wherever it goes". Freedom consists of
> > > > making choices, something that is in constant assault.
>
> > > How much freedom is possible in man's ability to make choices...
> > > is the will free, or is it determined by one's brain chemistry and structure
> > > which may follow "natural laws" beyond human control/influence?
> > > Is the "virtuous man" an accident of birth(chance) ....
> > > the "wicked man" likewise formed by fate?
> > > IOW....is Hell predetermined...or _can_ one escape?
>
> > Stoics believed virtuous men exercised their will. In rejecting free
> > will, how is a man different from an animal?
>
> That's a good question...
> As a human, I need to believe I have free will.
> Perhaps a difference is that man has an innate feeling
> of "right and wrong" that develops ethical behavior
> and often a sense of "guilt" for wickedness...
> which can create a living Hell.
Guilt arises from a self-determined failure to exercise free will.
> On Apr 10, 6:53 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:bb199901-5bbb-4d68...@ul7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com
>
> > > > Cleanthes once opined that the wicked man is "like a dog tied to a
> > > > cart, and compelled to go wherever it goes". Freedom consists of
> > > > making choices, something that is in constant assault.
>
> > > How much freedom is possible in man's ability to make choices...
> > > is the will free, or is it determined by one's brain chemistry and structure
> > > which may follow "natural laws" beyond human control/influence?
> > > Is the "virtuous man" an accident of birth(chance) ....
> > > the "wicked man" likewise formed by fate?
> > > IOW....is Hell predetermined...or _can_ one escape?
>
> > Stoics believed virtuous men exercised their will. In rejecting free
> > will, how is a man different from an animal?
>
> That's a good question...
> As a human, I need to believe I have free will.
> Perhaps a difference is that man has an innate feeling
> of "right and wrong" that develops ethical behavior
> and often a sense of "guilt" for wickedness...
> which can create a living Hell.
> Maybe those who have the Stoic ability to accept
> cosmic determinism with equanimity and live
> comfortably with nature's law have a feeling of
> peace that such a freedom can bring.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference."
Freedom Man
Apr 10, 2013, 12:18:27 PM4/10/13
to
Hell, like Heaven, is a childish MYTH!
Your life right here on Earth is your Hell or Heaven, as you make it.
Your life right here on Earth is your Hell or Heaven, as you make it.
Dare
Apr 10, 2013, 3:20:30 PM4/10/13
to
"M Purcell" <sacs...@aol.com> wrote in message news:d44e4086-a336-4da7...@lp1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
> > Maybe those who have the Stoic ability to accept
> > cosmic determinism with equanimity and live
> > comfortably with nature's law have a feeling of
> > peace that such a freedom can bring.
> There seems to be an echo of this philosophy in the Serenity Prayer:
>
> "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
> The courage to change the things I can,
> And wisdom to know the difference."
Good advice, whether a prayer or not.
Problems may arise when...all to often for some of us...
the prayer comes closer to Calvin's version:
;-)
Calvin: [I pray for]
"The strength to change what I can,
the inability to accept what I can't,
and the incapacity to tell the difference."
http://bestofcalvinandhobbes.com/2012/05/serenity-prayer-calvin-edition/
On Apr 10, 8:35 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > As a human, I need to believe I have free will.
> > Perhaps a difference is that man has an innate feeling
> > of "right and wrong" that develops ethical behavior
> > and often a sense of "guilt" for wickedness...
> > which can create a living Hell.
>
> Guilt arises from a self-determined failure to exercise free will.
Why does such a failure occur?
> >
> > As a human, I need to believe I have free will.
> > Perhaps a difference is that man has an innate feeling
> > of "right and wrong" that develops ethical behavior
> > and often a sense of "guilt" for wickedness...
> > which can create a living Hell.
>
> Guilt arises from a self-determined failure to exercise free will.
> > Maybe those who have the Stoic ability to accept
> > cosmic determinism with equanimity and live
> > comfortably with nature's law have a feeling of
> > peace that such a freedom can bring.
> There seems to be an echo of this philosophy in the Serenity Prayer:
>
> "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
> The courage to change the things I can,
> And wisdom to know the difference."
Problems may arise when...all to often for some of us...
the prayer comes closer to Calvin's version:
;-)
Calvin: [I pray for]
"The strength to change what I can,
the inability to accept what I can't,
and the incapacity to tell the difference."
http://bestofcalvinandhobbes.com/2012/05/serenity-prayer-calvin-edition/
M Purcell
Apr 10, 2013, 3:53:35 PM4/10/13
to
On Apr 10, 12:20 pm, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:d44e4086-a336-4da7...@lp1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:d44e4086-a336-4da7...@lp1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Apr 10, 8:35 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > As a human, I need to believe I have free will.
> > > Perhaps a difference is that man has an innate feeling
> > > of "right and wrong" that develops ethical behavior
> > > and often a sense of "guilt" for wickedness...
> > > which can create a living Hell.
>
> > Guilt arises from a self-determined failure to exercise free will.
>
> Why does such a failure occur?
The reason is a lack of reason.
> On Apr 10, 8:35 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > As a human, I need to believe I have free will.
> > > Perhaps a difference is that man has an innate feeling
> > > of "right and wrong" that develops ethical behavior
> > > and often a sense of "guilt" for wickedness...
> > > which can create a living Hell.
>
> > Guilt arises from a self-determined failure to exercise free will.
>
> Why does such a failure occur?
Malcolm McMahon
Apr 11, 2013, 9:00:19 AM4/11/13
to
This seems to have been identified in terms of brain wiring. Impulses to act occur in the mid-brain, and they are then "censored" by the evolutionarily new wiring in the frontal cortex, which considers consequences and determines the risk-benefit equation.
These mid-brain impulses are not uniformly harmful, on the contrary it's the source of altruistic impulses as well as aggressive ones. The "cold light of reason" is as likely to suppress one as the other.
I tend to believe that this "conflict" is a major source of human discontent. But, as I think Socrates said, "It's better to be a discontented man than a contented pig".
Dare
Apr 11, 2013, 9:54:21 AM4/11/13
to
"M Purcell" <sacs...@aol.com> wrote in message news:cd27fb08-3ba5-4bf6...@oy9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
If it is a brain-based lack of ability to reason,
is that predetermined by nature?
I am trying to understand how the Stoics resolve
a belief in cosmic determinism that still permits free will.
If the will is formed by an ability to reason that depends
on brain structure, is it not deterministic as well?
I admit that I don't feel like the idea that not having
free will means no individual responsibility for behavior.
That "feels" wrong...but is that what not having free will
necessarily means?
On Apr 10, 12:20 pm, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:d44e4086-a336-4da7...@lp1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:d44e4086-a336-4da7...@lp1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Guilt arises from a self-determined failure to exercise free will.
> >
> > Why does such a failure occur?
>
> The reason is a lack of reason.
What is the reason for this lack of reason?
> >
> > Why does such a failure occur?
>
> The reason is a lack of reason.
If it is a brain-based lack of ability to reason,
is that predetermined by nature?
I am trying to understand how the Stoics resolve
a belief in cosmic determinism that still permits free will.
If the will is formed by an ability to reason that depends
on brain structure, is it not deterministic as well?
I admit that I don't feel like the idea that not having
free will means no individual responsibility for behavior.
That "feels" wrong...but is that what not having free will
necessarily means?
M Purcell
Apr 11, 2013, 12:22:25 PM4/11/13
to
On Apr 11, 6:54 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:cd27fb08-3ba5-4bf6...@oy9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
And you can conceive of no reason, beyond a feeling, why a lack of
individual responsibility be might be wrong? The Stoics posited an
autonomous individual will perhaps from the observation that the
actions of individual people can not be predicted. Although an ability
may be innate, it's development and application is not. For example
simply because a person may have the vocal cords with which to speak
does not predetermine their mastery of a particular language, some
effort is also required.
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:cd27fb08-3ba5-4bf6...@oy9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
individual responsibility be might be wrong? The Stoics posited an
autonomous individual will perhaps from the observation that the
actions of individual people can not be predicted. Although an ability
may be innate, it's development and application is not. For example
simply because a person may have the vocal cords with which to speak
does not predetermine their mastery of a particular language, some
effort is also required.
M Purcell
Apr 11, 2013, 12:46:20 PM4/11/13
to
"Say to yourself in the early morning: I shall meet today ungrateful,
violent, treacherous, envious, uncharitable men. All of these things
have come upon them through ignorance of real good and ill... I can
neither be harmed by any of them, for no man will involve me in wrong,
nor can I be angry with my kinsman or hate him; for we have come into
the world to work together..."
Dare
Apr 12, 2013, 10:10:52 AM4/12/13
to
based on brain structure/chemistry which is predetermined by DNA
from nature. Similar to the question discussed in the thread:
"Studying Adam Lanza: Is evil in our genes?"
What, if any, control do we have in the ability to change or
influence our genetic programming...or is the will to make that
effort also part of that same genetic programming?
Do those diagnosed with mental illness have a free choice,
or is it controlled by their "abnormal" brain?
If the mentally ill aren't free to choose, can we be sure
the normal brain would be free...
or is it our human prejudice that needs to believe that?
Either way, it seems we must experience living as if we do
have a choice in order to give any meaning to life...
so maybe I should quit obsessing about it and live. :-)
M Purcell
Apr 12, 2013, 11:11:53 AM4/12/13
to
On Apr 12, 7:10 am, Dare <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/11/2013 12:22 PM, M Purcell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 11, 6:54 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I am trying to understand how the Stoics resolve
> >> a belief in cosmic determinism that still permits free will.
> >> If the will is formed by an ability to reason that depends
> >> on brain structure, is it not deterministic as well?
>
> >> I admit that I don't feel like the idea that not having
> >> free will means no individual responsibility for behavior.
> >> That "feels" wrong...but is that what not having free will
> >> necessarily means?
>
> > And you can conceive of no reason, beyond a feeling, why a lack of
> > individual responsibility be might be wrong? The Stoics posited an
> > autonomous individual will perhaps from the observation that the
> > actions of individual people can not be predicted. Although an ability
> > may be innate, it's development and application is not. For example
> > simply because a person may have the vocal cords with which to speak
> > does not predetermine their mastery of a particular language, some
> > effort is also required.
>
> I am asking if ability to reason and form a will to action is
> based on brain structure/chemistry which is predetermined by DNA
> from nature.
Obviously a brain is required.
> On 4/11/2013 12:22 PM, M Purcell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 11, 6:54 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I am trying to understand how the Stoics resolve
> >> a belief in cosmic determinism that still permits free will.
> >> If the will is formed by an ability to reason that depends
> >> on brain structure, is it not deterministic as well?
>
> >> I admit that I don't feel like the idea that not having
> >> free will means no individual responsibility for behavior.
> >> That "feels" wrong...but is that what not having free will
> >> necessarily means?
>
> > And you can conceive of no reason, beyond a feeling, why a lack of
> > individual responsibility be might be wrong? The Stoics posited an
> > autonomous individual will perhaps from the observation that the
> > actions of individual people can not be predicted. Although an ability
> > may be innate, it's development and application is not. For example
> > simply because a person may have the vocal cords with which to speak
> > does not predetermine their mastery of a particular language, some
> > effort is also required.
>
> I am asking if ability to reason and form a will to action is
> based on brain structure/chemistry which is predetermined by DNA
> from nature.
> Similar to the question discussed in the thread:
> "Studying Adam Lanza: Is evil in our genes?"
> What, if any, control do we have in the ability to change or
> influence our genetic programming...
> or is the will to make that
> effort also part of that same genetic programming?
the use to which it's put.
> Do those diagnosed with mental illness have a free choice,
> or is it controlled by their "abnormal" brain?
"abnormal".
> If the mentally ill aren't free to choose, can we be sure
> the normal brain would be free...
> or is it our human prejudice that needs to believe that?
> Either way, it seems we must experience living as if we do
> have a choice in order to give any meaning to life...
> so maybe I should quit obsessing about it and live. :-)
his illness was beyond her ability to administer and provided a
household full of weapons. The evil was in her denial of the probable
consequences.
Dare
Apr 12, 2013, 11:24:27 AM4/12/13
to
"M Purcell" <sacs...@aol.com> wrote in message news:547efee4-41ec-4677...@j5g2000pby.googlegroups.com...
I don't know how much is nature, nurture or choice.
It seems to be an ongoing debate.
> Adam Lanza's mother was aware
> his illness was beyond her ability to administer and provided a
> household full of weapons. The evil was in her denial of the probable
> consequences.
M Purcell
Apr 12, 2013, 11:35:17 AM4/12/13
to
On Apr 12, 8:24 am, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:547efee4-41ec-4677...@j5g2000pby.googlegroups.com...
future.
> "M Purcell" <sacsca...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:547efee4-41ec-4677...@j5g2000pby.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Apr 12, 7:10 am, Dare <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Either way, it seems we must experience living as if we do
> > > have a choice in order to give any meaning to life...
>
> > You have no choice?
>
> > > so maybe I should quit obsessing about it and live. :-)
>
> > Without a care in the world no doubt.
>
> No...quite the opposite.
> I don't know how much is nature, nurture or choice.
> It seems to be an ongoing debate.
There are always choices to be made in the progression from past to
> On Apr 12, 7:10 am, Dare <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Either way, it seems we must experience living as if we do
> > > have a choice in order to give any meaning to life...
>
> > You have no choice?
>
> > > so maybe I should quit obsessing about it and live. :-)
>
> > Without a care in the world no doubt.
>
> No...quite the opposite.
> I don't know how much is nature, nurture or choice.
> It seems to be an ongoing debate.
future.
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