What's the problem?

[Jahnu]

Srila Prabhupada says:

So this process of hari-kirtana is very simple:

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

Actually there are only three words: Hare, Krsna, and Rama. But they
are very nicely arranged for chanting so that everyone can take the
mantra and chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare.

Since we have started this movement in the Western countries,
Europeans, Americans, Africans, Egyptians, and Japanese are all
chanting. There is no difficulty. They are chanting very gladly, and
they are getting the results. What is the difficulty? We are
distributing this chanting free of charge, and it is very simple.
Simply by chanting, one can have self-realization, God realization,
and when there is God realization, then nature realization is included
also. For example, if one learns one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven, eight, nine, and zero, then he has studied the entirety of
mathematics, because mathematics means simply changing the places of
these ten figures. That's all. Similarly, if one simply studies Krsna,
then all his knowledge is perfect. And Krsna is easily understood
simply by chanting this mantra, Hare Krsna. So why not take this
opportunity?

-- Lecture on the appearance day of Lord Chaitanya


Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/J78fiLgE62E
http://youtu.be/s43I6T-voA8
http://youtu.be/jeMO6UxDGag
http://youtu.be/KSCqSVrAi8Y
http://youtu.be/wwV5_-EcsWU
http://youtu.be/IOsldggStPg

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu
http://www.facebook.com/groups/138462029613179/

[Olrik]

Le 2012-08-04 01:57, Jahnu a écrit :
> Srila Prabhupada says:

Beef!

It's what's for dinner!

<https://www.google.com/search?q=beef+dinner&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvnse&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=er0cUM-lIcj30gHtwYHQDQ&ved=0CEYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1427&bih=872>

Enjoy!

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 02:14:00 -0400, Olrik panted:

>Beef!
>
>It's what's for dinner!

AN OPEN LETTER FROM PAUL McCARTNEY- 14.01.2008


A recently published UN report has come to my attention. This report
contains information that I, personally, find quite amazing and I’d
like to share it with you. The report (Livestock’s Long Shadow)
contains one clear message; it states that the single most effective
act that any individual can currently do to lessen the effects of
global warming is to become vegetarian. That this message comes
directly from an authoritative body such as the UN (whose member
states, it should be remembered, are not generally considered
vegetarian) rather than an organisation committed to vegetarianism is
significant.

You may know that for over 30 years I have been interested in the
promotion of vegetarianism and my own feelings were sparked by a
simple compassion for animals. What I think is especially compelling,
is that this report should now encourage everybody to ‘do their bit’
for the planet. The evidence that the report gives is, frankly,
stunning. It points directly to the striking detrimental effects of
excessive livestock farming on the environment. For instance:

“Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to the most
serious environmental problems of today” says Henning Steinfeld of the
UN Food and Agricultural Organisation (FAO). “Urgent action is
required to remedy the situation.”

• “70% of former forests in the Amazon have been turned over to
grazing.”

• “Livestock now use 30% of the entire world’s land surface.”

“Cattle rearing is also a major source of land and water degradation.”
(FAO report Livestock’s Long Shadow- Environmental Issues & Options).

“When emissions from land use and land use change are included (i.e.
deforestation), the livestock sector accounts for 9% of CO2 deriving
from human-related activities, but produces a much larger share of
even more harmful greenhouse gases. It generates 65% of human-related
nitrous oxide, which has 296 times the Global Warming Potential (GWP)
of CO2.”

“The livestock business is among the most damaging sectors to the
earth’s increasingly scarce water resources, contributing among other
things to water pollution¬from animal wastes, antibiotics and
hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and the pesticides
used to sprayed crops.”

Ok, this may sound like me banging on about vegetarianism again but
this time, these facts come straight from the UN and I wonder if you,
like me, think that they are significant enough to be taken seriously.
By simply considering altering eating habits people can strike a blow
for the environment, our children and the future. Such facts and data
as those listed above can’t be ignored.

I hope this statement doesn’t seem too heavy-handed but I think this
recent news is important enough to take notice of.

Many thanks for reading this.

Cheers,

Paul McCartney

source:
http://macca.devstars.eu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=64366

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 11:27:38 +0530, Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com>
wrote:

>Srila Prabhupada says:
>
>So this process of hari-kirtana is very simple:
>

It would 'have' to be.

> Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/
>Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

Met her on a Monday and my heart stood still/
Da Doo Ron Ron Ron Da Doo Ron Ron/
Somebody to me that her name was Jill/
Da Doo Ron Ron Ron Da Doo Ron Ron/

Same thing.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 16:15:29 -0700, blithered:

>> Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/
>>Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.
>
> Met her on a Monday and my heart stood still/
> Da Doo Ron Ron Ron Da Doo Ron Ron/
> Somebody to me that her name was Jill/
> Da Doo Ron Ron Ron Da Doo Ron Ron/
>
> Same thing.

As if you had a clue...

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare \
hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

"the above mantra consisting of 16 words and 32 syllables is the only
means against evil in this age. After searching through all the Vedic
literature, one cannot find a method of religion more sublime for this
age than the chanting of Hare Krsna."

--- Kali-santarana Upanishad

[Steve O]

I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.

Difficult to translate this one to text but I'll try..

A papa ooh mau mau
Papa ooh mau mau
A papa ooh mau mau
Papa ooh mau mau
Everybody's heard about the bird !
I said the bird bird bird, the bird is the word !

....Jahnu- you have been powned.

Steve O

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:33:30 +0100, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
wrote:

>I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.

Who gives a hoot what you prefer?

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12

[Irreverend Dave]

Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:33:30 +0100, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
> wrote:
>
>>I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
>
> Who gives a hoot what you prefer?
>

Mmmmmmm. Hoot owl pie!

http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/briscoe.htm



--
"Theology is not a source of genuine knowledge and therefore is not a
science. Reason and religion are thus at odds with each other."
- William Lane Craig

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:57:39 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:33:30 +0100, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
> wrote:
>
>> I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
>
> Who gives a hoot what you prefer?

I do: "Hoot!"

> Krishna says:
>
> O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
> all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
> be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
>
> --Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12

I have a question: If Krishna said that, why are you attributing it to
someone else named Srimad?

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
"I'm not sure what 'logic' has to do with atheism."
-- Duke Earl J. Weber Lebourgeois, American-American (May 8, 2012)

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:43:28 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:57:39 +0530
>Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:33:30 +0100, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
>>
>> Who gives a hoot what you prefer?
>
>I do: "Hoot!"
>
>> Krishna says:
>>
>> O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
>> all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
>> be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
>>
>> --Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12
>
>I have a question: If Krishna said that, why are you attributing it to
>someone else named Srimad?

Smurf Boy has no intellect. He's like a sterile robot using key
words to trigger Bahavgadad quotes. He hasn't had a lucid thought in
the last fifteen years.

He's a cut and paste pathetic wanker desperate to make something of
his wasted superstitious life.

He's like a pig waking up in the mud after twenty years and
demanding that everyone praise his devotion to mud because he is too
ashamed to admit he shit his life away on religion. On nothing.
Nothing.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:43:28 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:


>I have a question: If Krishna said that, why are you attributing it to
>someone else named Srimad?

Get en education, bozo.

Krishna says:

When one is envious of the demigods, who represent the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, of the Vedas, which give all knowledge, of the
cows, brahmanas, Vaisnavas and religious principles, and ultimately of
Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he and his civilization will
be vanquished without delay. -- Srimad Bhagavatam 7.4.27

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 17:15:46 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:

> Smurf Boy has no intellect. He's like a sterile robot using key
>words to trigger Bahavgadad quotes. He hasn't had a lucid thought in
>the last fifteen years.

hahaha :) and you'd know this how...?

You wouldn't know a lucid thought if it fell on your head, retard.

Here is the irrefutable argument that Atheism is anti-intellectual and
makes you stupid.

Atheism is the belief that there are no gods. In other words, it is a
belief that cannot be verified. It is impossible to prove there is no
God. By definition, you cannot prove a negative. So atheism is a
totally blind belief, that cannot be verified. Who, but a less
intelligent idiot, would believe in something blindly?

On the other hand, a theist, at least theoretically, has the
possibility to have his faith in God verified. God, if He exists, can
certainly prove His own existence beyond doubt. So theists are
intellectually better situated than atheists because they believe in
something that has the possibility of verification.

Thus theists are fundamentally more intelligent than atheists.

Now, some atheist might ask, if God can verify Himself, why doesn't He
do so to me? And here is the answer that God gives in the Bhagavad
Gita:

Krishna says:

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible. (Bg. 7.25)

Somebody might think, but this is hard-hearted of God. But when you
think about it, it is actually not. It is rather very benevolent of
God. Atheism is actually not a matter of evidence of this and proof of
that. That is a total BS idea. For someone who has the eyes to see,
this whole world is proof of an intelligent, Supreme Designer.
Obviously, nobody is an atheist out of a lack of proof of God.

To be an atheist or a theist is simply a matter of choice. Atheism is
a choice you make when you don't want God in your life. It's as simple
as that. Most religions have no real good explanation for why somebody
would not want God in his life, but the Vedic version predicts this.
God is the Supreme Enjoyer, and the soul is meant for His enjoyment.
But if the soul wants to imitate God and become an independent
enjoyer, Krishna then gives the material world as their field of
activity.

So all of us, whether we call ourselves Xtians, atheists, Buddhists,
Hare Krishnas or whatever, are all fallen souls, who have fallen down
into the material world to become enjoyers and controllers. If we
actually knew the truth - that Krishna is the only enjoyer and
controller - we wouldn't be able to live out the illusion of being
independent enjoyers and controllers. So Krishna mercifully keeps the
fallen souls in ignorance. It is out of respect for the deluded soul's
wishes, that Krishna stays away from Him. When an atheist has a very
strong conviction that there is no God, it is Krishna Who sits in his
heart and makes that conviction strong.

Krishna says:

I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance,
knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known.
Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedänta, and I am the knower of the
Vedas. (Bg. 15.15)

So the only way a fallen soul will ever again see God, is by asking
Him for it. As long as the basic desire is there, to not have anything
to do with God, Krishna will stay far away from such a soul, and He
will offer oceans of good reasons to not believe in Him. So when
atheists ask for evidence and proof of God, it is all lies. There is
nothing that a die-hard atheist wants less than proof of God. Proof of
God is the last thing he wants.

So anyone who wants to know God beyond doubt will certainly do
whatever is necessary to accomplish that. And the fist thing one must
do to see God is give up one's atheistic mentality and develop a
genuine desire to see God. If you wish to see God, you'll follow the
method of how to see Him. That's obvious.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Pritha, how by practicing yoga in full
consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in
full, free from doubt. (Bg. 7.1)

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

Those last few words, "... he shit his life away on religion ...," are
the most profound that anyone has written here in this "alt.atheism"
newsgroup recently. They are very effective at driving home the point
of how important one's choices really are, for choices that "amount to
nothing" can lead to some terrible realizations of regret after 50, 75,
100, or more years have passed by.

I feel that I have had a meaningful life so far that was not inundated
by superstition and dogma, and although there are some things that I
probably should have done differently, overall I'm satisfied with the
vast majority of my decisions because I've typically attempted to make
sure they were "informed decisions that were guided with the proper and
relevant intentions with [at least] a dash of objectivity."

Hopefully you've also lived well so far.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"The unexamined life is not worth living."
-- Socrates of Athens

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 06:08:07 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:43:28 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:57:39 +0530 Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com>
>> wrote:

[snip]

>>> Krishna says:
>>>
>>> O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving
>>> up all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot
>>> possibly be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
>>>
>>> --Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12
>>

>> I have a question: If Krishna said that, why are you attributing it
>> to someone else named Srimad?
>
> Get en education, bozo.

That's a non-sequitur because my level of education is irrelevant.

Your ad hominem attack, which includes a spelling mistake, does not
contribute positively to any appearance of credibility to judge others.

Do you realize that by asking this question I am assuming you know the
answer? My question was respectful and reasonable, and I find your
reaction disappointing not only for its tones of intolerance, but also
because you didn't respond in kind with a reasonable explanation.

> Krishna says:
>
> When one is envious of the demigods, who represent the Supreme
> Personality of Godhead, of the Vedas, which give all knowledge, of the
> cows, brahmanas, Vaisnavas and religious principles, and ultimately of
> Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he and his civilization will
> be vanquished without delay. -- Srimad Bhagavatam 7.4.27

I have the same question again: If Krishna said that, why are you

attributing it to someone else named Srimad?

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Wisdom begins in wonder."
-- Socrates of Athens

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 22:57:19 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

<blah blah>

Krishna says:

When one is envious of the demigods, who represent the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, of the Vedas, which give all knowledge, of the
cows, brahmanas, Vaisnavas and religious principles, and ultimately of
Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he and his civilization will
be vanquished without delay. -- Srimad Bhagavatam 7.4.27

Srimad Bhagavatam, also known as the Bhagavat Purana, is one of the
Vedic scriptures. It's the only revealed sripture in the world that
tells us who is, what is His name, what does He look like, who the
soul is, why and how has God created the world, what does He like to
do, where does He live, who are His friends etc. etc.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:36:18 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 22:57:19 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
> <blah blah>

I made two attempts to ask a reasonable question in a respectful
manner, and you still haven't answered it. Shall I assume that you
don't know the answer?

> Krishna says:
>
> When one is envious of the demigods, who represent the Supreme
> Personality of Godhead, of the Vedas, which give all knowledge, of the
> cows, brahmanas, Vaisnavas and religious principles, and ultimately of
> Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he and his civilization will
> be vanquished without delay. -- Srimad Bhagavatam 7.4.27
>
> Srimad Bhagavatam, also known as the Bhagavat Purana, is one of the
> Vedic scriptures. It's the only revealed sripture in the world that
> tells us who is, what is His name, what does He look like, who the
> soul is, why and how has God created the world, what does He like to
> do, where does He live, who are His friends etc. etc.

Okay, so you've described who Srimad is, which was intersting, but I
still have the same question: If Krishna said that (which you quoted
above), why are you attributing it to someone else named Srimad?

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do."
-- Bertrand Arthur William Russell

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:20:32 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>I made two attempts to ask a reasonable question in a respectful
>manner, and you still haven't answered it. Shall I assume that you
>don't know the answer?

Assume what you want. Who cares, anyway? Besides, I answered your
question.

>Okay, so you've described who Srimad is, which was intersting, but I
>still have the same question: If Krishna said that (which you quoted
>above), why are you attributing it to someone else named Srimad?

The sage, Shaunaka says:

Persons devoid of atma-tattva (self-knowledge) do not inquire into the
problems of life, being too attached to the fallible soldiers like the
body, children and wife. Although sufficiently experienced, they still
do not see their inevitable destruction. -- Srimad Bhagavatam 2.1.4

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:21:54 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:20:32 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> I made two attempts to ask a reasonable question in a respectful
>> manner, and you still haven't answered it. Shall I assume that you
>> don't know the answer?
>
> Assume what you want. Who cares, anyway? Besides, I answered your
> question.

Obviously you care, for you replied. You have not answered my question
about attributing Krishna's words to someone else, despite your claim
that you have (otherwise I wouldn't have had to repeat the question).

>> Okay, so you've described who Srimad is, which was intersting, but I
>> still have the same question: If Krishna said that (which you quoted
>> above), why are you attributing it to someone else named Srimad?
>
> The sage, Shaunaka says:
>
> Persons devoid of atma-tattva (self-knowledge) do not inquire into the
> problems of life, being too attached to the fallible soldiers like the
> body, children and wife. Although sufficiently experienced, they still
> do not see their inevitable destruction. -- Srimad Bhagavatam 2.1.4

I have a new question: If Shaunaka said that (which you quoted above),

why are you attributing it to someone else named Srimad?

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Faith is useless hokum. It is the hope that some belief is true.
What utter nonsense. The ONLY thing that matters is knowledge and
experience. I don't have to 'believe' in the existance of god. That
would be so many steps backwards from where I am at present."
-- Kirby Grant (July 22, 2012)

[Mike Painter]

On 8/6/2012 2:51 AM, Jahnu wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:20:32 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> I made two attempts to ask a reasonable question in a respectful
>> manner, and you still haven't answered it. Shall I assume that you
>> don't know the answer?
>
> Assume what you want. Who cares, anyway? Besides, I answered your
> question.

So you are posting all this crap even though you don't care?
>

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:36:37 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>I have a new question: If Shaunaka said that (which you quoted above),
>why are you attributing it to someone else named Srimad?

Not much happening in the brain-department, eh? :)

The sage, Kavi says:

Although the duality of the material world does not ultimately exist,
the conditioned soul experiences it as real under the influence of his
own conditioned intelligence. This imaginary experience of a world
separate from Krsna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and
desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something
desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to
have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his
own imagination. The tendency of the mind is to accept and reject
various activities based on sense gratification. Therefore an
intelligent person should control the mind, restricting it from the
illusion of seeing things separate from Krsna, and when the mind is
thus controlled he will experience actual fearlessness.

--Srimad Bhagavatam, 11.2.38

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 06:12:26 +0530, Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 17:15:46 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>> Smurf Boy has no intellect. He's like a sterile robot using key
>>words to trigger Bahavgadad quotes. He hasn't had a lucid thought in
>>the last fifteen years.
>
>hahaha :) and you'd know this how...?
>
>You wouldn't know a lucid thought if it fell on your head, retard.
>
>Here is the irrefutable argument that Atheism is anti-intellectual and
>makes you stupid.
>
>Atheism is the belief that there are no gods. In other words, it is a
>belief that cannot be verified. It is impossible to prove there is no
>God. By definition, you cannot prove a negative. So atheism is a
>totally blind belief, that cannot be verified. Who, but a less
>intelligent idiot, would believe in something blindly?

Typical religious bullshit. The brainwashed telling the
non-brainwashed what they are by using a Strawman argument.

Atheism is a neutral. It is the naturalistic position for all human
life at the beginning.

You've been on a.a. for years and haven't a clue as to our
definition. I can understand that. If you actually knew what atheism
was your worthless belief system may tumble down. Can't have that.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 12:17:21 -0700, Mike Painter
<md.pa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>So you are posting all this crap even though you don't care?

Who cares what a bunch of anti-intellectual fools on usenet think or
assume? Certainly not me.

Shukadeva Goswami says:

As the dangers of a dream cease when the dreamer awakens, the
illusions created by the jugglery of the demons were vanquished by the
transcendental prowess of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as soon
as He entered the battlefield. Indeed, simply by remembrance of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead, one becomes free from all dangers.

(Srimad Bhagavatam 8.10.56)

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:36:50 -0700, kni...@baawa.com squeeked:

> Typical religious bullshit. The brainwashed telling the
>non-brainwashed what they are by using a Strawman argument.

> Atheism is a neutral. It is the naturalistic position for all human
>life at the beginning.

Nope, atheism is the retard belief-system of less intelligent fools
and rascals.

Look you are in the Bhagavad Gita - Krishna says:

Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not
to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found
in them. (Bg 16.7)

They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in
control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other
than lust. (Bg. 16.8)

Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves
and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works
meant to destroy the world. (Bg. 16.9)

Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of pride
and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to
unclean work, attracted by the impermanent. (Bg. 16.10)

They believe that to gratify the senses is the prime necessity of
human civilization. Thus until the end of life their anxiety is
immeasurable. Bound by a network of hundreds of thousands of desires
and absorbed in lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for
sense gratification. (Bg. 16.11-12)

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 06:13:48 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 12:17:21 -0700, Mike Painter
> <md.pa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> So you are posting all this crap even though you don't care?
>
> Who cares what a bunch of anti-intellectual fools on usenet think or
> assume? Certainly not me.

Oh, I see, you must be referring to the other trolls you're working
with here in this "alt.atheism" newsgroup.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way
through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion
that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your
knowledge.""
-- Isaac Asimov

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 06:04:05 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:36:37 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a new question: If Shaunaka said that (which you quoted
>> above), why are you attributing it to someone else named Srimad?
>
> Not much happening in the brain-department, eh? :)

I'm not sure what that has to do with a brain department since this
topic isn't about hospital wings. I did post a new question because
you changed names.

You still haven't answered my question.

> The sage, Kavi says:
>
> Although the duality of the material world does not ultimately exist,
> the conditioned soul experiences it as real under the influence of his
> own conditioned intelligence. This imaginary experience of a world
> separate from Krsna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and
> desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something
> desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to
> have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his
> own imagination. The tendency of the mind is to accept and reject
> various activities based on sense gratification. Therefore an
> intelligent person should control the mind, restricting it from the
> illusion of seeing things separate from Krsna, and when the mind is
> thus controlled he will experience actual fearlessness.
>
> --Srimad Bhagavatam, 11.2.38

...I have another new question: If Kavi said that (above), why are you

attributing it to someone else named Srimad?

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people
see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."
-- Adolf Hitler

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 06:18:56 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:36:50 -0700, kni...@baawa.com squeeked:
>
>> Typical religious bullshit. The brainwashed telling the
>> non-brainwashed what they are by using a Strawman argument.
>>
>> Atheism is a neutral. It is the naturalistic position for all
>> human life at the beginning.
>
> Nope, atheism is the retard belief-system of less intelligent fools
> and rascals.

Atheism is not a belief system, for it is merely the "absence of belief
in deities and supernatural agents."

Atheism: http://www.atheistfrontier.com/glossary/atheism.pl

Regarding "retarded people" (you used the word "retard"), atheism
doesn't discriminate and has no minimum or maximum intelligence
requirements, so anyone can be an atheist (and in fact, every single
person begins life as an atheist due to being born absent of belief,
including you whether you like it or not).

> Look you are in the Bhagavad Gita - Krishna says:

[snip - superstitious proselytizing that doesn't refer to atheism]

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Struggle is the father of all things. It is not by the principles of
humanity that man lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal
world, but solely by means of the most brutal struggle."
-- Adolf Hitler

[sbalneav]

[Peter, Stewie and Brian are sitting at the kitchen table. Brian is reading a
newspaper]

Peter: Brian, can I see that paper for a sec? [Brian hands him the paper] Huh,
that's odd. I thought that would be big news.

Brian: You thought what would be big news?

Peter: Well, there seems to be an absence of a certain ornithological piece. A
headline regarding mass awareness of a certain avian variety.

Brian: What are you talking about?

Peter: Oh, have you not heard? It was my understanding that everyone had
heard...

Brian: Heard what?

Stewie: Brian, don't!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNrx2jq184

--
__ _ | Nothing is enough for the man to whom enough is too little.
(_ |_) | -- Epicurus, 341-270 BCE
__)|_) |

[2Smart 2Vote]

Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:36:50 -0700, kni...@baawa.com squeeked:
>>Typical religious bullshit. The brainwashed telling the
>>non-brainwashed what they are by using a Strawman argument.
>>Atheism is a neutral. It is the naturalistic position for all human
>>life at the beginning.
>Nope, atheism is the retard belief-system of less intelligent fools
>and rascals.

And yet atheists have on average 6 IQ points higher than their occult
lunatic theist colleagues around them. Huh.

---
Voting for a "President" is a religious act, the act of a fool

[Painius]

sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNrx2jq184
>
> --
> __ _ | Nothing is enough for the man to whom enough is too little.
> (_ |_) | -- Epicurus, 341-270 BCE
> __)|_) |
>

The average theologian (there are exceptions, of course) uses
"atheist" to mean a person who denies the existence of a God.
Even an atheist would agree that some atheists (a small minority)
would fit this definition. However, most atheists would stongly
dispute the adequacy of this definition. Rather, they would hold
that an atheist is a person without a belief in God.
The distiniction is small but important. Denying something means
that you have knowledge of what it is that you are being asked to
affirm, but that you have rejected that particular concept. To be
without a belief in God merely means that yhe term "god" has no
importance, or possibly no meaning, to you. Belief in God is not
a factor in your life. Surely this is quite different from denying
the existence of God. Atheism is not a belief as such. It is the
lack of belief.

When we examine the components of the word "atheism," we can see
this distinction more clearly. The word is made up of "a-" and
"-theism." Theism, we will all agree, is a belief in a God or gods.
The prefix "a-" can mean "not" (or "no") or "without." If it means
"not," then we have as an atheist someone who is not a theist
(i.e., someone who does not have a belief in a God or gods). If it
means "without," then an atheist is someone without theism, or
without a belief in God.

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:59:43 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>Atheism is not a belief system, for it is merely the "absence of belief
>in deities and supernatural agents."

Just see how stupid atheism makes you. So you believe in a silly
definition of atheism made up by some retard atheists...

hahaha :)

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything." � -- �GK Chesterton

Everyone has faith in something. There is no denying it.

We have faith in ourselve and what we do; we have faith in the system
we belong to and so on. In that way it can also be seen that we act in
accordance with the faith we have. People have faith in different
-isms, like nationalism, atheism, Marxism, Hinduism, Darwinism,
Racism, Democratism, Vedantism etc.

The question is not whether to have faith or not. Everyone has some
kind of faith. So the question then becomes what do we choose to place
our faith in. An atheist have the basic faith that he is the body and
that life is meant to serve the body and mind. He has faith that the
phenomenon of experience is nothing more than neuro-chemical reactions
in his brain. This is an actual faith some have.

Others have faith that that there is a supreme intelligence guiding
everything, and which is the original cause of all things. This is
another type of faith some have. It is clear that it is not a matter
of having faith or no faith, since a person who claims to have no
faith is making a statement of faith.

A materialist has faith that the prime goal of life is to gratify his
mind and body. That is a basic faith shared by practically everyone -
even those of socalled religious faiths believe that the goal of life
is as sucesfully as possible to gratify the senses. The Vedas suggest
the best type of faith to have, is the faith that we are eternal parts
of the same whole, Krishna, the supreme being, and that we are meant
to serve Krishna's mind and senses instead of our own minds and
senses.

Only such a course of action will bring real and lasting satisfaction
to the self. The basic misunderstanding of the modern system of
reality is to confuse the self with the body and mind. That's why no
one can find any satisfaction in the material world and everyone is
frustrated. We are all trying to find a cause to believe in, but since
everything is transcient in the material world, whatever we place our
faith in changes and becomes something else than what it started out
as. That is the unavoidable factor of material existence.

So everyone is seeking a common factor of life they can share with
others of a similar denomination and in this way experience a sense of
identity, because our identity can only be established in terms of
relationships with other living entities. The inherent problem of the
modern world is that our identities are being defined in terms of our
bodies and minds. We live in a culture where identity is established
by the flesh we belong to.

But that flesh - the body - changes at every moment, and our identity
changes along with it, and therefore people do not have an anchor in
their life - a foundation they can hang on to that does not change; a
constant in their life, which brings us to the next factor and that is
that everyone needs a constant i their lives, a value or a standard
that does not change.

The modern notion that knowledge developes and evolves as we gather
more and more information (which funny enough keeps proving the
current ideas wrong) is simply bogus. The truth does not change.
Either it is or isn't the truth. Take reincarnation for instance. It
is not a matter of what we believe in. Either reincanation is a fact
or it isn't a fact, regardless of whether we believe it or not. It is
totally irrelevant what anyone believes about reincarnation - either
it is or it isn't a fact. It is not that all of the sudden it becomes
true because someone found out about it. If it is true now it is
because it was also true before and if it was true before and it is
true now it will also remain true forever. Only such truth is
knowledge worth pursuing. Knowledge of that which is always true.

There is only one factor, one platform that all living entities can
unite around and that is the Krishna factor. Actually that is the only
platform of faith, upon which everyone can get together and work in a
coorporative spirit. As long as we do not act on the same platform of
faith there will continue to be conflicting interests and egos
clashing together. If we can believe that we are all parts of the same
whole - Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead - in that case we
can also understand that we are all brothers and sisters coming from
the same father, the same origin - Krishna.

If we don't place a common factor in our lives, a platform where we
can all be together, we are left with no other alternative than to
pursue our own selfish interests - either contracted or extended,
which basically means that we will be preoccupied with gratifying
ourselves and those around us in our close circles.

What's the meaning of forgetting about death and becoming a consumer,
whose only aim in life is to aquire bran wares defined by
contem[porary culture? It is especially useless seen in the light of
the fact that no one in existence ever became satisfied by becoming
succesful in material life, no matter how much he tried. And who can
say that it hasn't been tried? The weekly magazines are full of
reports on the successful class, the celebreties, who enjoy their
senses to the max, but who are all haivng so many problems with broken
relationships, drugs etc., in fact, the same problems that everyone
else has. You can worry about not being able to pay your monthly rent
of 10.000 dollars or you can worry about not being able to pay 300
dollars, but the worry is the same. If you are worrying about 10.000
dollars instead of 300 dollars you have just upgraded your worries.

You can improve the material qualities of life such as wealth and
prestige, but the basic experience of suffering and enjoyment is the
same for everyone regardless of their material qualities of life.

The only solution to the problems of finding our identity and finding
that which we can place our faith in is to accept divinely inspired
knowledge descending from Krishna, and which furthermore has been
recorded and transscribed in the Vedas, the most comprehensive body of
knowledge known to mankind, and whose essence has been delivered in
English to the people in this modern, fallen age by Srila Prabhupada,
who comes in the

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:54:12 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>...I have another new question: If Kavi said that (above), why are you
>attributing it to someone else named Srimad?

That's like asking, if Paul said the above, why are you attributing it
to someone named Bible.

See how stupid atheism makes you?

Krishna says:

The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal
fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very
hard with the six senses, which include the mind. (Bg. 15.7)

The living entity in the material world carries his different
conceptions of life from one body to another as the air carries
aromas. Thus he takes one kind of body and again quits it to take
another. (Bg. 15.8)

The living entity, thus taking another gross body, obtains a certain
type of ear, eye, tongue, nose and sense of touch, which are grouped
about the mind. He thus enjoys a particular set of sense objects. (Bg.
15.9)

The foolish cannot understand how a living entity can quit his body,
nor can they understand what sort of body he enjoys under the spell of
the modes of nature. But one whose eyes are trained in knowledge can
see all this. (Bg. 15.10)

The endeavoring transcendentalists who are situated in
self-realization can see all this clearly. But those whose minds are
not developed and who are not situated in self-realization cannot see
what is taking place, though they may try to. (Bg. 15.11)

-- Bhagavad Gita, 15. 7-11

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:50:45 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>Oh, I see, you must be referring to the other trolls you're working
>with here in this "alt.atheism" newsgroup.

The experience of what is tangible and real in the world, is different
from person to person. For me, God is totally tangible and real,
whereas for others He is intangible and no more real than Santa Claus
or the Toothfairy.

But the joy that is experienced by adding Krishna to one's life is
completely real and tangible.. to one who does it, that is.

To add Krishna to one's life, to make Him a tangible reality, doesn't
require one to follow a lot of rules, shave one's head, dress in
sheets, and move into the tample. One doesn't have to think about
that, at all. All one has to think about, is to add Krishna to
whatever one is doing. But that is a difficult task for many. Very few
people want to spend even 10 minutes a day chanting the Hare Krishna
mantra.

So let it come to a test - a test anyone can do.

Just think of Krishna 3 times a day - morning, noon, and evening. Just
think of the name KRISH-NA. Pronounce it in your mind - KRISH-NA -
just remember this word three times a day, and see where it takes you.
I can guarantee that it will improve your life-performance.

My spiritual master used to tell us that material life (ie. life in a
material body) is like a string of zeros. No matter how many zeros you
add to it, it is still zero, it still comes out to nothing. But by
adding the ONE of Krishna, all the zeros suddenly increse their value.

So why not try it? Remember Krishna's name three times a day, and see
where it takes you. What have you got to lose? There is everything to
gain and nothing to lose.

Krishna says:

In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little
advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type
of fear. (Bg 2.40)

[Neil Kelsey]

On Sunday, August 5, 2012 8:27:39 AM UTC-7, Jahnu wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:33:30 +0100, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>

> >I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
>
>
>

> Who gives a hoot what you prefer?

I do!

> Krishna says:

Nothing. He's a figment of your imagination.

[u4z]

Neil Kelsey <neil.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
> >
> >
> >

> > Who gives a hoot what you prefer?I do!> Krishna says:Nothing. He's a figment of your imagination.
>

Most of creationist literature is negative. They spend most of their
time attacking evolution without proposing alternatives that can be
tested. But if you are proposing creationism as a science then it should
be able to be tested and should solve problems.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012 7:46:30 PM UTC-7, u4z wrote:
> Neil Kelsey <neil.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > >I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Who gives a hoot what you prefer?
>
> > I do!
>
> Krishna says:
>
> > Nothing. He's a figment of your imagination.
>
> Most of creationist literature is negative.

I don't know about that. I think it's usually half positive and half negative. You, know, reward and punishment, heaven and hell.

> They spend most of their
> time attacking evolution without proposing alternatives that can be
> tested.

Wrong. They all propose alternatives and some of them can be tested. For instance, we can test the creationist literature called "The Bible": it claims the earth, complete with humans, appeared within six days from the beginning of the universe. That claim has proved to be false - it took billions of years for the earth and humans to appear.

> But if you are proposing creationism as a science then it should
> be able to be tested and should solve problems.

I wasn't proposing creationism as a science, but I will propose it as a pseudoscience for quacks if you want.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 07:05:29 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:54:12 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> ...I have another new question: If Kavi said that (above), why are
>> you attributing it to someone else named Srimad?
>
> That's like asking, if Paul said the above, why are you attributing it
> to someone named Bible.

No, it isn't. If there really was someone named "Bible," then it would
make sense to give them credit for something they wrote or said when
quoting them.

The problem with you is that you claim "Krishna says:" followed by some
quote that you then attribute to someone else not named Krishna, which
is contradictory -- if both of these people said what you were quoting,
why not write "Krishna and Lucifer says:" instead? (Note: I casually
used the name "Lucifer" as a cooperative example.)

> See how stupid atheism makes you?

[snip - irrational proselytizing]

No, that's not what I see.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Faith is the purposeful suspension of critical thinking."
-- Bill Maher

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 06:55:46 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:59:43 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> Atheism is not a belief system, for it is merely the "absence of
>> belief in deities and supernatural agents."
>
> Just see how stupid atheism makes you. So you believe in a silly
> definition of atheism made up by some retard atheists...

Your ad hominem attack is unfair to people who are retarded (mentally,
physically, and/or otherwise) because it assumes that they make up
definitions that are "silly" -- it's an insult to their intellect, for
even a person who suffers from mental retardation can still be
brilliant.

Also important to note: Atheism has no requirements of any particular
level of intelligence, and so any such expectation of atheists to have
any arbitrary measure of intellect is a non-sequitur.

> hahaha :)
>
> "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
> they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton

Freedom isn't stupid, and I suspect that GK Chesterton knows this well.

Religion, on the other hand, tends to put restrictions on freedom.

> Everyone has faith in something. There is no denying it.

Does "everyone" include people who commit suicide because they feel
that they "have nothing to live for?"

> We have faith in ourselve and what we do; we have faith in the system
> we belong to and so on. In that way it can also be seen that we act in
> accordance with the faith we have. People have faith in different
> -isms, like nationalism, atheism, Marxism, Hinduism, Darwinism,
> Racism, Democratism, Vedantism etc.

Atheism promises nothing, as opposed to religions which often promise
an after-life, reincarnation, or some other supernatural benefits.

> The question is not whether to have faith or not. Everyone has some
> kind of faith. So the question then becomes what do we choose to place
> our faith in. An atheist have the basic faith that he is the body and
> that life is meant to serve the body and mind. He has faith that the
> phenomenon of experience is nothing more than neuro-chemical reactions
> in his brain. This is an actual faith some have.

That's illogical because an atheist must first conceptualize these
ideas in order to have faith in them.

> Others have faith that that there is a supreme intelligence guiding
> everything, and which is the original cause of all things. This is
> another type of faith some have. It is clear that it is not a matter
> of having faith or no faith, since a person who claims to have no
> faith is making a statement of faith.

You're being manipulative because you're splitting hairs in that
knowledge of cause-and-effect (e.g., the effect of gravity) is out of
context for "divine faith."

> A materialist has faith that the prime goal of life is to gratify his
> mind and body. That is a basic faith shared by practically everyone -
> even those of socalled religious faiths believe that the goal of life
> is as sucesfully as possible to gratify the senses. The Vedas suggest
> the best type of faith to have, is the faith that we are eternal parts
> of the same whole, Krishna, the supreme being, and that we are meant
> to serve Krishna's mind and senses instead of our own minds and
> senses.

People who cut themselves with knives due to depression are not known
for seeking gratification, nor is self-gratification necessarily a
faith since survival may require one to do something that is contrary
to self-gratification.

> Only such a course of action will bring real and lasting satisfaction
> to the self. The basic misunderstanding of the modern system of
> reality is to confuse the self with the body and mind. That's why no
> one can find any satisfaction in the material world and everyone is
> frustrated. We are all trying to find a cause to believe in, but since
> everything is transcient in the material world, whatever we place our
> faith in changes and becomes something else than what it started out
> as. That is the unavoidable factor of material existence.

What "modern system of reality?" You're obviously confusing the
consistency of reality with the changes that develop in human behaviour
by misapplying constancy to humanity and adaptation to reality.

Regarding "all trying to find a cause to believe in" I am not trying to
find one, and I know many who are also absent of this need. This
appears to be no more than an attempt to build a straw woman for the
absolute justification of religion.

As far as change is concerned, it is well-known that theological
leaders often try to impede progress (which change ultimately
represents), but due to ever-increasing trend toward secularism in
government throughout the world, particularly in recent centuries, the
strong-hold that religion used to have is waning, and the result is
that people are more free to adapt to change, which consequently leaves
religion behind. (The Roman Catholic Church, I suspect, has an astute
awareness of this and is taking steps to deal with it, but if progress
comes faster than they can cope with, they will also be left behind.)

> So everyone is seeking a common factor of life they can share with
> others of a similar denomination and in this way experience a sense of
> identity, because our identity can only be established in terms of
> relationships with other living entities. The inherent problem of the
> modern world is that our identities are being defined in terms of our
> bodies and minds. We live in a culture where identity is established
> by the flesh we belong to.

Identity is the root of conceit as it is particularly important in the
acquisition of fame. I suspect the mass media has influenced you.

The real reason for identity is to aid social function, for one's
identity is, for the most part, useless without a society.

> But that flesh - the body - changes at every moment, and our identity
> changes along with it, and therefore people do not have an anchor in
> their life - a foundation they can hang on to that does not change; a
> constant in their life, which brings us to the next factor and that is
> that everyone needs a constant i their lives, a value or a standard
> that does not change.

You are not free, for you are a slave to virtues.

> The modern notion that knowledge developes and evolves as we gather
> more and more information (which funny enough keeps proving the
> current ideas wrong) is simply bogus. The truth does not change.
> Either it is or isn't the truth. Take reincarnation for instance. It
> is not a matter of what we believe in. Either reincanation is a fact
> or it isn't a fact, regardless of whether we believe it or not. It is
> totally irrelevant what anyone believes about reincarnation - either
> it is or it isn't a fact. It is not that all of the sudden it becomes
> true because someone found out about it. If it is true now it is
> because it was also true before and if it was true before and it is
> true now it will also remain true forever. Only such truth is
> knowledge worth pursuing. Knowledge of that which is always true.

I've noticed that many religious right-wing-nuts judge the world in
terms of extremes (a "black and white" view). There are many grey
areas, and your failure to comprehend them doesn't make it a fallacy.

> There is only one factor, one platform that all living entities can
> unite around and that is the Krishna factor. Actually that is the only
> platform of faith, upon which everyone can get together and work in a
> coorporative spirit. As long as we do not act on the same platform of
> faith there will continue to be conflicting interests and egos
> clashing together. If we can believe that we are all parts of the same
> whole - Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead - in that case we
> can also understand that we are all brothers and sisters coming from
> the same father, the same origin - Krishna.

That is a fantastic example of arrogance. What makes you think that
your religion is the only true one? The Jewish people believe that
they are "the chosen ones" which implicitly excludes everyone else,
which technically is a form of discrimination. You are not exhibiting
this very same form of discrimination but with your own religion, and
you're playing the "one world religion will stop war" card (which is
very much like a "race card" except that its vehicle is religion).

> If we don't place a common factor in our lives, a platform where we
> can all be together, we are left with no other alternative than to
> pursue our own selfish interests - either contracted or extended,
> which basically means that we will be preoccupied with gratifying
> ourselves and those around us in our close circles.

That's a fallacious arbitrary pessimistic assumption that all people are
selfish which I suspect many people would likely find insulting. Yes,
there are many people who are naturally inclined to be selfish, but
there are also many people who are naturally inclined to be genuinely
giving, accomodating, helpful, etc.

> What's the meaning of forgetting about death and becoming a consumer,
> whose only aim in life is to aquire bran wares defined by
> contem[porary culture? It is especially useless seen in the light of
> the fact that no one in existence ever became satisfied by becoming
> succesful in material life, no matter how much he tried. And who can
> say that it hasn't been tried? The weekly magazines are full of
> reports on the successful class, the celebreties, who enjoy their
> senses to the max, but who are all haivng so many problems with broken
> relationships, drugs etc., in fact, the same problems that everyone
> else has. You can worry about not being able to pay your monthly rent
> of 10.000 dollars or you can worry about not being able to pay 300
> dollars, but the worry is the same. If you are worrying about 10.000
> dollars instead of 300 dollars you have just upgraded your worries.
>
> You can improve the material qualities of life such as wealth and
> prestige, but the basic experience of suffering and enjoyment is the
> same for everyone regardless of their material qualities of life.

The famous people likely tend to encounter more problems because they
are constantly being watched by obsessive people trying to get a glimpse
of their private lives (I regard this as unhealthy voyeurism).

Materialism is unhealthy when it interferes with personal
relationships, and the monetary systems of the world are a result of
societies growing so large that bartering becomes impractical. The
majority of social problems are the result of corruption in politics
and criminal activity outside of government not being prevented. The
world needs change though, for without change the world is at risk of
stagnation the leads to its end, so the challenge is in managing the
social aspects of adaptation to change instead of ignoring it (as many
politicians prefer to do because they're afraid to commit to improving
social conditions because it might upset their investors).

> The only solution to the problems of finding our identity and finding
> that which we can place our faith in is to accept divinely inspired
> knowledge descending from Krishna, and which furthermore has been
> recorded and transscribed in the Vedas, the most comprehensive body of
> knowledge known to mankind, and whose essence has been delivered in
> English to the people in this modern, fallen age by Srila Prabhupada,
> who comes in the

Your claim that Krishna is all-knowing doesn't hold water because
Krishna isn't well-known for views on subjects like theoretical
physics, space travel, string theory, etc. Have there been any
publications attributed to Krishna that demonstrate Krishna's knowledge
on these topics that can credibly refute my understanding that Krishna
doesn't posess "the most comprehensive body of knowledge known to
mindkind" (as you put it)?

I suspect that the most comprehensive body of knowledge known to
mankind is the internet, which includes a lot of detailed information
about pretty much everything these days -- more than any library can
hold anymore (although I'm an advocate for libraries because they do
encourage literacy, research, and quiet social interactions while also
emphasizing, as a pinnacle of progress, the importance of order and
knowledge in the proper contexts).

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"That's not splitting hairs; here's the difference -- take a ham and
egg breakfast for example: The chicken who provided the egg is only
involved, but the pig is totally committed."
-- J. R. Ewing Sr., Dallas, Texas, USA (1996)

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 13:03:30 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

<blah blah>

The sage, Shaunaka says:

Persons devoid of atma-tattva (self-knowledge) do not inquire into the
problems of life, being too attached to the fallible soldiers like the
body, children and wife. Although sufficiently experienced, they still
do not see their inevitable destruction.

(Srimad Bhagavatam 2.1.4)

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 13:58:56 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>Your ad hominem attack is unfair to people who are retarded (mentally,
>physically, and/or otherwise) because it assumes that they make up
>definitions that are "silly" -- it's an insult to their intellect, for
>even a person who suffers from mental retardation can still be
>brilliant.

Is it now I start sobbing and beg forgiveness? :)

Everyone has faith in something. No human being can exist without some
type of faith.

People have faith in the system they belong to and in the daily
activities they perform. They have faith in their culture and way of
life. People have faith in different "isms," like nationalism,
atheism, Marxism, empiricism, feminism, Globalism, Hinduism,
Darwinism, racism, etc.

So the question is clearly not whether or not to have faith, but
rather, what do we choose to place our faith in? That's a basic choice
everyone has to make in life. Some people reflect over their faith,
and wonder why they think like they do, but most people of the world
today belong in the category of the mindless masses who simply accept
what they are brought up to believe as gospel truth.

Regardless of that, the faith or conviction of a person, whether
rational or not, will determine the course of his activities in life
and thus behavioral patterns will evolve. In other words, people act
in accordance with their faith or conviction. So the bottom line is
that everyone, whether they call themselves Christians, Hindus,
atheists or whatever, subscribes to some kind of tenets or beliefs on
which they base their outlook in life.

Modern atheists, for instance, claim they have no faith, but when
closer examined it emerges they are very strongly convinced that there
is no eternal soul; they think the self is the body and that life is
meant to serve the body and mind. They have faith that the fact of
awareness or consciousness is nothing more than neuro-chemical
reactions in his brain. Thus to them there is no higher meaning to
life than what the individual makes of it. Others have faith that
there is a supreme intelligence guiding and controlling everything,

and which is the original cause of all things.

Even persons who claim, irrationally, to have no faith will still
have to concede in the end, that that very claim is based on faith. If
you say you have no faith, you have to have faith this is a rational
statement to make, otherwise you wouldn't make it. Unfortunately it is
the sad state of the world today, that the idea of living without
faith is widespread amongst even the so-called intelligentsia. I have
met people who seriously, without a trace of shame or embarrassment
state that they have no faith. They only believe in facts, they say.
So if you are one of them, you can just throw this Journal away and go
watch some TV. This essay is for thinking human beings. Still today
most people in the world live according to some system of faith
perpetuated by their culture and different religious scriptures of the
world.
Since we have to have faith in something, it makes more sense to place
our faith in a religious system or a supreme person rather that
placing our faith in blind natural laws, or the big nothingness.
Because the thing is, if everything ultimately happens by chance, as
some would have it, it makes for a very bleak outlook in life. This is
also why, that the more atheistic people become, the more depressed
and miserable they also become. This is a statistic fact. And how can
we ever hope to control our own destiny if everything happens by
chance? In that case we can't even hope to control our own suffering
and enjoyment because if our suffering and enjoyment is completely
random it means you can't do anything to enhance one or the other.
That means we are helpless pawns in the hands of nature with no
influence whatsoever on the workings of matter.

Contrary to that scenario, which unfortunately is becoming quite
common place in the word today, there is the holistic idea, that we
all are part of the same whole. The religion of Vedas is the original
belief system in human society that says harmony will only evolve when
all individuals give up their selfish pursuits, and come together to
serve the complete whole.

If we don't serve the complete whole we are bound to be serving our
own little spheres of interest, but we have tried that so much already
and it has always been in vain. Who can honestly say that he became
satisfied just by serving his senses and/or the senses of his loved
ones? The path to true satisfaction lies in giving up selfish and ego
centered pursuits and serving the complete whole, Krishna. Only such a

course of action will bring real and lasting satisfaction to the self.

The basic misunderstanding of the modern way of life is to confuse the
self with the body and mind. We think we are the body and mind. That's

why no one can find any satisfaction in the material world and

everyone is frustrated, because it is actually not possible to satisfy
the real self or the soul by trying to satisfy the body and mind.
It is like trying to satisfy a bird in a cage by polishing the cage.
The self is the soul, the eternal observer within the gross body and
subtle mind. And because the self is unchanging and eternal it cannot
find satisfaction in the non-permanent sphere of the material world.
The material world, including the body and mind, is constantly going
through changes from creation, maintenance and destruction, but the
self is an eternal, atomic particle of consciousness, for whom there
is no birth or death or old age. Therefore such a conscious self
cannot find satisfaction in a world of repeated birth and death. How
can you find satisfaction when you know you are soon going to die?
Therefore a conditioned living entity is willing to completely forget
the fact that he is headed for death, and that in the face of death
ultimately everyone's hopes and aspirations are rendered meaningless.

Of course, we don't think like that. We just go on in life as if we
were never going to die, and as if this life is the only chance we
will ever get to obtain happiness. So, in the meantime, while we are
waiting for death, we try to find so many causes to believe in, but
since everything is transient in the material world, whatever we place
our faith in, changes, and becomes something else than what we
expected. That is the unavoidable factor of material existence.
Everyone is seeking a common factor of life they can share with others

of a similar denomination and in this way experience a sense of

identity, because our identity can only be established in terms of the
relationships we form with other living entities. The inherent problem

of the modern world is that our identities are being defined in terms

of our bodies and minds. We live in a culture where our identity is
established by the flesh we belong to, but as that flesh - the body-
changes at every moment our identity changes along with it, and
therefore people do not actually know who they really are. They cannot
fix their identity. They don't have an anchor in life - a foundation
that does not change. Someone might say, I have my name, that doesn't
change, so I'll just hang on to that. And indeed, people do just that.
But if you think about it, what kind of an identity is it to be Joe
Smith or even Lord Blitherblather?

IOW, besides their name, people do not have a constant in their lives,
which brings us to another factor of life, and that is that everyone
needs a constant in their lives, a value or a standard that does not
change. The modern notion, that knowledge develops and evolves as we

gather more and more information (which funny enough keeps proving the

current ideas wrong), and that we evolved from amoebas, which, after
the universe popped out of a point, somehow crawled out of the
primordial soup, grew legs and learned to talk, is simply bogus. It is
actually a proposal so ridiculous and laughable and an insult to the
intelligence that it is a great wonder 99 percent of the world's
population seem to believe in it.

The real truth is that the truth does not change. Either something is

or isn't the truth. Take reincarnation for instance. It is not a

matter of whether or not we believe in it. Either reincarnation is a
fact or it isn't a fact, regardless of what you or I believe in. It is

not that all of the sudden it becomes true because someone found out

about it or starts to believe it. Or like the scientific "discovery"
of planets. The planets existed before the scientists came along. They
existed before, without anyone's knowledge - they were simply unseen
by our meager, limited sense perception. So it is not knowledge that
evolved. It was there all the time. We just couldn't see it. That is
the truth. If is true now, it was also true before, and it will also
remain true in the future. Only such truth is knowledge worth
pursuing. Relative knowledge may have its use for making technology
and consumer gadgets, but it is useless when it comes to solving the
existential mysteries of life.

There is only one factor, one platform that all living entities can

unite around, and that is the Supreme factor. Actually that is the
only platform of faith upon which everyone can get together and work
in a corporative spirit. As long as we do not act on the same platform
of faith there will continue to be conflict of interests and egos
clashing together. If, however, we can believe that we are all parts

of the same whole - Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead -

then, in that case, we can also believe and understand that we are all

brothers and sisters coming from the same father, the same origin -
Krishna.

Anything else will be tribal oriented. It's funny how people of
different great nations like the US or Russia think they are
sophisticated and don't fancy themselves to be just another tribe
bullying others or squabbling with them for area and resources. There
is nothing less tribal, mentality wise, about the Disney company, the
White House or the Pentagon, than some tribes in the remote jungles of
Africa or Asia. As long as this type of narrow, ego-centric mentality
prevails, whether it be in Swahili land or in Wall Street, there will
be constant competition between individuals or groups of individuals
of who can gratify their minds and senses in the most refined or
extravagant manner. How can such a primitive, tribal oriented
mentality bring all beings together in harmony? As Krishna says in the
Bhagavad Gita, how can there be happiness without peace?

There has to be a common platform for everyone to act on, but clearly
the modern society and culture does not provide people with such a
common platform. They may call it the global culture, but the only
thing global about it is that now everyone can happily drink Coca Cola
together. Regardless of the enlightenment of the information age the
'global' culture still churns out the same old tribal clones, except
that now they are dressed in suits and carry cell phones. That's
called advancement, BTW. But it doesn't matter how fancy or recent
your cell phone model is, or how powerful your notebook, or how many
cylinders your car have, or how advanced you otherwise consider
yourself in learning and prestige, you are still not happy and
satisfied, and there are still no conceptions and ideas offered by any
of the great institutions of the global culture that can make your
life meaningful and satisfied; none that work, anyway, or are being
practiced. There is a lot of talk about finding oneself, and getting
together in peace and harmony, and saving the this and the that; in
fact nowadays it has been made into a whole industry to spill your
heart out on Oprah and Jerry Springer shows, but no one seems able yet
to have come up with a solution to the problem of how to counteract
the miseries of the material world.

One can of course also choose to just forget about the existential
questions of life, and stop wondering why he is suffering, and just
get on in life. What's the problem, right? But what's the meaning of
forgetting about death and becoming a dull consumer whose only aim in
life is to acquire brand-name items defined by the culture he happens
to belong to? It is especially useless seen in the light of the fact
that no one in existence ever became happy and satisfied by becoming
successful in material life - no matter how much he tried. And who can

say that it hasn't been tried?

The weekly magazines are full of colorful reports on the successful
people, the celebrities, who enjoy their senses to the max, but who
are all having so many problems with broken relationships, drugs,
suicide, etc. - in fact, the same problems that everyone else has. You

can worry about not being able to pay your monthly rent of 10.000
dollars or you can worry about not being able to pay 300 dollars, but
the worry is the same. If you are worrying about 10.000 dollars

instead of 300 dollars you have just upgraded your miseries and

worries. You can improve the material qualities of life such as wealth
and prestige, but the basic experience of suffering and enjoyment is

the same for everyone regardless of their material status in life. You
can't say that a rich man in a high-rise apartment in Manhattan eating
his bloody steak with silver cutlery is enjoying his meal more than a
Bengali farmer eating puffed rice from a leaf plate with his fingers.
The eating process is exactly the same. Or when you sleep, do you then
care or even notice if you are lying on a box spring mattress in
Beverly Hills or on a straw matt in a mud hut?

The only solution to the problems of finding our identity and finding
that which we can place our faith in is to accept divinely inspired
knowledge descending from Krishna, and which furthermore has been

recorded and transcribed in the Vedas, the most comprehensive body of
knowledge known to mankind. The essence of that great body of
knowledge has been delivered and made accessible to the people of this
modern, fallen age by Srila Prabhupada, who comes in the ancient
disciplic succession from Krishna Himself. Anything else is mere
speculation. So there is faith based on speculation, and faith based
on fact. The process of Krishna consciousness is faith based on facts.
Just try it out. Simply chant the Hare Krisna mantra and your life
will be sublime. It's guaranteed.

[u4z]

Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> http://youtu.be/s43I6T-voA8
> http://youtu.be/jeMO6UxDGag
> http://youtu.be/KSCqSVrAi8Y
> http://youtu.be/wwV5_-EcsWU
> http://youtu.be/IOsldggStPg
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu
> http://www.facebook.com/groups/138462029613179/

There is simply no more evidence for Jehovah than there is for Zeus.
Christians find no reason to believe that Zeus exists, so they do not
believe in him. For the same reason, I do not believe in Jehova. God
himself is more than welcome to share an honest conversation with me.
Until he does, I have no reason to trust that anyone is a reliable
spokesman for any god.

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 09 Aug 2012 20:43:20 -0500, u4z <US4...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>There is simply no more evidence for Jehovah than there is for Zeus.
>Christians find no reason to believe that Zeus exists, so they do not
>believe in him. For the same reason, I do not believe in Jehova. God
>himself is more than welcome to share an honest conversation with me.
>Until he does, I have no reason to trust that anyone is a reliable
>spokesman for any god.

Whatever it is, it's a matter of authority - what you choose to
believe in. The mind basicaly thinks and acts like it has been trained
to do during its formative years. If you don't suffer much, you must
be more more influence by the mode of passion than of ignorance/
Passion means constant changing between happiness and distress. The
mode of ignorance conditions you to a lot of suffering and misfortune.
And in the mode of goodness it is mostly happiness. There is no
goodness in modern society. It is a complete speculation. It's values
and goals are completely without any authority but the mind.

I am not trying to force my opinion on anyone. The only reason you
think so, is because you are too much under the influence of passion
and ignorance. The mode of passion dictates you to be in doubt about
right and wrong. The mode of ignorance dictates you to be convinced of
the wrong thing. I am just out to make the real world accessible to
any sincere seeker.

It is entirely a matter of authority.

You have two possibilities - you can either accept you own mind as
authority, or you can accept somebody else's mind as authority. You
haven chosen the Coca-cola culture and what your own mind tells you,
as autority, I have chosen the Vedic sages. That's all. It's simply a
question of whom you choose to get your knowlege from - is your own
mind the authority or is it someone else?

In modern society, we have been trained to think that one's own minds
is the greatest authority. That, together with what we are told by TV
and Hollywood, determines our view of the world.

I accept the Vedic sages as my authority I accept Srimad Bhagavatam as
authority. You accept what you you're conditioned to think by your
culture, you accept what the mind tells you. It is as simple as that.

The reason you don't understand that the knowledge of the eternal
disciplic succession, is superior to the speculations of modern
society - the Coca-cola society, as I like to call it - is because you
are too much governed by the mode of ignorance, in which you become
convinced of the wrong thing. At least the mode of passion would doubt
whether it's right or wrong - doubts are the function of the
intelligence. And in the mode of goodness you would understand things
as they are, because in the mode of goodness there is enlightenment.

Real knowledge can only be gotten from those who possess it. That is
what you don't understand. In the mode of goodness you understand
that. In the mode of passion you would at least be doubtful of what
the mind or, I tell, you, but in the mode of ignorance, you are
convinced of the wrong thing, and that makes you commit mistakes.

The first mistake is to accept knowledge from the wrong sources. Real
knowledge can only come from the Vedas. It can be tried and testet by
anyone. The science of nature working according to the three modes of
material nature - goodness, passion, and ignorance. It's like a map
that will teach one to read what is really going on in nature and the
mind. It can be tested and confirmed scientifically. But if you are in
the mode of ignorance, you won't listen to it or try it out. You will
be completely convinced by your own mind. Conditions of ignorance
always leads to suffering, without exception. The mode of passion
causes you to experience a mixture of happiness and distress - up and
down constantly - and in the mode of goodness you will be generally
satisfied and content and you will know what is what.

These things, I say, are obviously not for you. Feel free to ignore
it. This message is entirely directed at any sincere seeker, that
might happen to be here. It is only meant for those who have a desire
to learn the truth. Krishna says:

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire
from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized
souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
(Bg. 4.34)

Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you will
never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will
see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other
words, that they are Mine. (Bg. 4.35)

Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/J78fiLgE62E

[duke]

Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> http://youtu.be/s43I6T-voA8
> http://youtu.be/jeMO6UxDGag
> http://youtu.be/KSCqSVrAi8Y
> http://youtu.be/wwV5_-EcsWU
> http://youtu.be/IOsldggStPg
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu
> http://www.facebook.com/groups/138462029613179/

The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is
atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the
siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with
all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more
intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel
loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing
more.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 06:49:24 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 13:58:56 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> Your ad hominem attack is unfair to people who are retarded
>> (mentally, physically, and/or otherwise) because it assumes that
>> they make up definitions that are "silly" -- it's an insult to their
>> intellect, for even a person who suffers from mental retardation can
>> still be brilliant.
>
> Is it now I start sobbing and beg forgiveness? :)

No, that's not how real men cope with simple mistakes. I encourage you
to be a real man of honour by taking responsibility for everything that
is within your power, to be objectively fair and just when authority is
granted to you no matter how difficult it may be to endure, and to not
fear truly questioning everything including your religion, for this
will grant you the serenity to develop high calibre personal character.

> Everyone has faith in something. No human being can exist without some
> type of faith.

[snip - 17 lengthy paragraphs]

You have a lot of work ahead of you if you truly wish to progress.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition."
-- Timothy Leary

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 07:06:44 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:50:45 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh, I see, you must be referring to the other trolls you're working
>> with here in this "alt.atheism" newsgroup.
>
> The experience of what is tangible and real in the world, is different
> from person to person. For me, God is totally tangible and real,
> whereas for others He is intangible and no more real than Santa Claus
> or the Toothfairy.
>
> But the joy that is experienced by adding Krishna to one's life is
> completely real and tangible.. to one who does it, that is.

...so long as the expectation makes it so. If one has the expectation
that Krishna would be difficult to live up to, then such a belief would
likely be more of a struggle that introduces more stress than joy, but
it would be a self-induced experience none-the-less.

> To add Krishna to one's life, to make Him a tangible reality, doesn't
> require one to follow a lot of rules, shave one's head, dress in
> sheets, and move into the tample. One doesn't have to think about
> that, at all. All one has to think about, is to add Krishna to
> whatever one is doing. But that is a difficult task for many. Very few
> people want to spend even 10 minutes a day chanting the Hare Krishna
> mantra.

Imaginary friends are not tangible. Long slow deep chanting is
well-known to have a calming effect on people, even if they're just
making noise without any words, and so the Hare Krishna mantra is
optional.

> So let it come to a test - a test anyone can do.
>
> Just think of Krishna 3 times a day - morning, noon, and evening. Just
> think of the name KRISH-NA. Pronounce it in your mind - KRISH-NA -
> just remember this word three times a day, and see where it takes you.
> I can guarantee that it will improve your life-performance.

You'll need to be more specific about the expected range(s) of results
before I'd be willing to even consider taking such a test.

> My spiritual master used to tell us that material life (ie. life in a
> material body) is like a string of zeros. No matter how many zeros you
> add to it, it is still zero, it still comes out to nothing. But by
> adding the ONE of Krishna, all the zeros suddenly increse their value.

Your comparison is faulty because material life is tangible while zero
is merely a concept -- one cannot tangibly count "0 apples" in one
hand yet they can count one or more, and how does one tangibly compare
0 apples to 0 oranges in a practical way? Any such comparison is a
delusion, for I am holding 0 apples, 0 oranges, and 0 heavy watermelons
in one hand and I can prove it easily by showing someone my empty hand.

> So why not try it? Remember Krishna's name three times a day, and see
> where it takes you. What have you got to lose? There is everything to
> gain and nothing to lose.

It's not about what can be lost, but what can be gained, and you
haven't indicated what the potential gains are.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not
prove anything."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 22:44:44 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>...so long as the expectation makes it so. If one has the expectation
>that Krishna would be difficult to live up to, then such a belief would
>likely be more of a struggle that introduces more stress than joy, but
>it would be a self-induced experience none-the-less.

Whatever it is, the pleasure of adding Krishna to one's life is real.
In my life, I have had all the sex, drugs, and rockn'll I could
possibly want, and none of it compares to the deep inner satisfaction
of Krishna Consciousness.

>Imaginary friends are not tangible. Long slow deep chanting is
>well-known to have a calming effect on people, even if they're just
>making noise without any words, and so the Hare Krishna mantra is
>optional.

Krishna is not imaginary. He is God. As I've said many times, God does
not manifest to those who don't want God in their lives. But He does
manifest to those who do. It's all a matter of your desire.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt. (Bg 7.1)

>You'll need to be more specific about the expected range(s) of results
>before I'd be willing to even consider taking such a test.

It's completely up to you. That's your free will. If you are
satisfied, that this life is all there is, then so be it. At least I
have done my duty and made transcendece available to those who
sincerely seek it.

>Your comparison is faulty because material life is tangible while zero
>is merely a concept -- one cannot tangibly count "0 apples" in one
>hand yet they can count one or more, and how does one tangibly compare
>0 apples to 0 oranges in a practical way? Any such comparison is a
>delusion, for I am holding 0 apples, 0 oranges, and 0 heavy watermelons
>in one hand and I can prove it easily by showing someone my empty hand.

Whatever. The fact remains that the number 0, without which modern
mathematics would not exist, was first introduced by the Vedas.

>It's not about what can be lost, but what can be gained, and you
>haven't indicated what the potential gains are.

The gain is a higher pleasure - the pleasure in life we are all
looking for.

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 00:09:07 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is
>atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the
>siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with
>all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more
>intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel
>loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing
>more.

The message of Krishna Consciousness is only meant for those who want
more in their lives than simply being born to die, and in the meantime
try and squeeze as much satisfaction out of the body as possible.

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12

Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/J78fiLgE62E

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 22:33:40 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>You have a lot of work ahead of you if you truly wish to progress.

Whatever...

Krishna says:

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire
from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized
souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
(Bg. 4.34)

Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you will
never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will
see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other
words, that they are Mine. (Bg. 4.35)

Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, when
you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will be
able to cross over the ocean of miseries. (Bg. 4.36)

As a blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire
of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities. (Bg.
4.37)

In this world, there is nothing so sublime and pure as transcendental
knowledge. Such knowledge is the mature fruit of all mysticism. And
one who has become accomplished in the practice of devotional service
enjoys this knowledge within himself in due course of time. (Bg. 4.38)

A faithful man who is dedicated to transcendental knowledge and who
subdues his senses is eligible to achieve such knowledge, and having
achieved it he quickly attains the supreme spiritual peace. (Bg. 4.39)

But ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures
do not attain God consciousness; they fall down. For the doubting soul
there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next. (Bg. 4.40)

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 12:33:41 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 22:44:44 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> ...so long as the expectation makes it so. If one has the
>> expectation that Krishna would be difficult to live up to, then such
>> a belief would likely be more of a struggle that introduces more
>> stress than joy, but it would be a self-induced experience
>> none-the-less.
>
> Whatever it is, the pleasure of adding Krishna to one's life is real.

It is subjective, emotionally. Is it also a contradiction since you
have pointed out that pleasure is something that "...the wise man does
not delight in..." in the past? Or do you have a disdain for wisdom?

On June 30, 2010, this is what wrote:

"Krishna says:
"An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery,
which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kunti,
such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does
not delight in them. (Bg. 5.22)"

Source: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/9ee6684913652446

> In my life, I have had all the sex, drugs, and rockn'll I could
> possibly want, and none of it compares to the deep inner satisfaction
> of Krishna Consciousness.

You are free to make this choice and determination for yourself, and I
am not in opposition to you following from that path from which you are
getting satisfaction.

>> Imaginary friends are not tangible. Long slow deep chanting is
>> well-known to have a calming effect on people, even if they're just
>> making noise without any words, and so the Hare Krishna mantra is
>> optional.
>
> Krishna is not imaginary. He is God. As I've said many times, God does
> not manifest to those who don't want God in their lives. But He does
> manifest to those who do. It's all a matter of your desire.

Desire is not a logical substitute for fact.

> Krishna says:
>
> Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
> of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
> doubt. (Bg 7.1)

Krishna's view is mistaken, for doubt is not a form of oppression one
needs freedom from, rather it is an opportunity for one to challenge
ideas, philosophies, convictions, contentions, beliefs, etc.

In particular, suspect that doubt is also a natural side-effect of
combining intellect with survival instincts, which also has the
potential to inspire innovation that may ultimately lead to progress.

>> You'll need to be more specific about the expected range(s) of
>> results before I'd be willing to even consider taking such a test.
>
> It's completely up to you. That's your free will. If you are
> satisfied, that this life is all there is, then so be it. At least I
> have done my duty and made transcendece available to those who
> sincerely seek it.

You have failed in your duty because in order to make it available, you
have not provided L.O.V.E. (Logical, Objective, Verifiable Evidence) to
demonstrate that transcendence is real, for your target is skeptical.

>> Your comparison is faulty because material life is tangible while
>> zero is merely a concept -- one cannot tangibly count "0 apples" in
>> one hand yet they can count one or more, and how does one tangibly
>> compare 0 apples to 0 oranges in a practical way? Any such
>> comparison is a delusion, for I am holding 0 apples, 0 oranges, and
>> 0 heavy watermelons in one hand and I can prove it easily by showing
>> someone my empty hand.
>
> Whatever.

Implicit agreement noted.

> The fact remains that the number 0, without which modern mathematics
> would not exist, was first introduced by the Vedas.

I understood it to be Pingala or Halāyudha to be credited for zero.

>> It's not about what can be lost, but what can be gained, and you
>> haven't indicated what the potential gains are.
>
> The gain is a higher pleasure - the pleasure in life we are all
> looking for.

That is still vague; what kind of pleasure? Longer orgasms? Learning
something interesting that one didn't know previously? Discovering a
new star or planet in the galaxy? Creating formula in theoretical
physics that others find useful?

Also, it's important to note that not everyone is searching for higher
pleasure -- in fact, there are some who take no pleasure in life at all.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Time is bunk."
-- Douglas Noel Adams, Satirical Statistical Scientist

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 12:33:41 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 22:44:44 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> ...so long as the expectation makes it so. If one has the
>> expectation that Krishna would be difficult to live up to, then such
>> a belief would likely be more of a struggle that introduces more
>> stress than joy, but it would be a self-induced experience
>> none-the-less.
>
> Whatever it is, the pleasure of adding Krishna to one's life is real.

It is subjective, emotionally. Is it also a contradiction since you
have pointed out that pleasure is something that "...the wise man does
not delight in..." in the past? Or do you have a disdain for wisdom?

On June 30, 2010, this is what wrote:

"Krishna says:
"An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery,
which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kunti,
such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does
not delight in them. (Bg. 5.22)"

Source: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/9ee6684913652446

> In my life, I have had all the sex, drugs, and rockn'll I could
> possibly want, and none of it compares to the deep inner satisfaction
> of Krishna Consciousness.

You are free to make this choice and determination for yourself, and I
am not in opposition to you following from that path from which you are
getting satisfaction.

>> Imaginary friends are not tangible. Long slow deep chanting is
>> well-known to have a calming effect on people, even if they're just
>> making noise without any words, and so the Hare Krishna mantra is
>> optional.
>
> Krishna is not imaginary. He is God. As I've said many times, God does
> not manifest to those who don't want God in their lives. But He does
> manifest to those who do. It's all a matter of your desire.

Desire is not a logical substitute for fact.

> Krishna says:
>
> Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
> of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
> doubt. (Bg 7.1)

Krishna's view is mistaken, for doubt is not a form of oppression one
needs freedom from, rather it is an opportunity for one to challenge

ideas, philosophies, convictions, contentions, beliefs, parking tickets,
etc.

In particular, I suspect that doubt is also a natural side-effect of

combining intellect with survival instincts, which also has the
potential to inspire innovation that may ultimately lead to progress.

>> You'll need to be more specific about the expected range(s) of
>> results before I'd be willing to even consider taking such a test.
>
> It's completely up to you. That's your free will. If you are
> satisfied, that this life is all there is, then so be it. At least I
> have done my duty and made transcendece available to those who
> sincerely seek it.

You have failed in your duty because in order to make it available, you
have not provided L.O.V.E. (Logical, Objective, Verifiable Evidence) to
demonstrate that transcendence is real, for your target is skeptical.

>> Your comparison is faulty because material life is tangible while
>> zero is merely a concept -- one cannot tangibly count "0 apples" in
>> one hand yet they can count one or more, and how does one tangibly
>> compare 0 apples to 0 oranges in a practical way? Any such
>> comparison is a delusion, for I am holding 0 apples, 0 oranges, and
>> 0 heavy watermelons in one hand and I can prove it easily by showing
>> someone my empty hand.
>
> Whatever.

Implicit agreement noted.

> The fact remains that the number 0, without which modern mathematics
> would not exist, was first introduced by the Vedas.

I understood it to be Pingala or Halāyudha to be credited for zero.

>> It's not about what can be lost, but what can be gained, and you
>> haven't indicated what the potential gains are.
>
> The gain is a higher pleasure - the pleasure in life we are all
> looking for.

That is still vague; what kind of pleasure? Longer orgasms? Learning
something interesting that one didn't know previously? Discovering a
new star or planet in the galaxy? Creating formula in theoretical
physics that others find useful?

Also, it's important to note that not everyone is searching for higher
pleasure -- in fact, there are some who take no pleasure in life at all.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 00:37:36 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>It is subjective, emotionally. Is it also a contradiction since you
>have pointed out that pleasure is something that "...the wise man does
>not delight in..." in the past? Or do you have a disdain for wisdom?

Of course, it's subjective. Everything is. Humans are subjective
beings. None the less, the pleasure of connecting with Krishna by far
surpasses any other pleasure you can obtain by gratifying the body or
the mind.

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12

>You are free to make this choice and determination for yourself, and I
>am not in opposition to you following from that path from which you are
>getting satisfaction.

It's entirely up to you.

>Desire is not a logical substitute for fact.

The fact is, that your lifestile and activities are based on your
desires.

>Krishna's view is mistaken, for doubt is not a form of oppression one
>needs freedom from, rather it is an opportunity for one to challenge
>ideas, philosophies, convictions, contentions, beliefs, etc.

<snip>

to learn the truth. Krishna says:

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire
from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized
souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
(Bg. 4.34)

Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you will
never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will
see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other
words, that they are Mine. (Bg. 4.35)

[Zerkon]

In article <7ub928982jnljmgq1...@4ax.com>,
Jahn...@gamail.com says...
> Krishna says
>

I like butter.

--
"The space ship hung in the air
exactly like
a brick does not"

Thus spaketh The Adams

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 07:04:27 -0400, Zerkon <Z...@z.net> wrote:

>I like butter.

So does Krishna. He is also known as Makhanchor - the butter thief.

Krishna says:

Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away,
and whatever austerities you perform -- do that, O son of Kunti, as an
offering to Me. ( Bg 9.27)

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 14:47:44 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 00:37:36 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> It is subjective, emotionally. Is it also a contradiction since you
>> have pointed out that pleasure is something that "...the wise man
>> does not delight in..." in the past? Or do you have a disdain for
>> wisdom?
>
> Of course, it's subjective. Everything is. Humans are subjective
> beings. None the less, the pleasure of connecting with Krishna by far
> surpasses any other pleasure you can obtain by gratifying the body or
> the mind.

[snip]

You've omitted the part where I used one of your own quotes from 2010
against you, and then you omitted pretty much everything else I wrote
that points out various errors in your ways, a logical explanation of
how Krishna is mistaken, etc. At this point, I consider myself to have
won this debate as you have chosen to almost completely ignore my
serious response to you instead of attempting to refute.

Have a nice life.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not
omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is
he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able
nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-- Epicurus

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:57:28 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>You've omitted the part where I used one of your own quotes from 2010
>against you, and then you omitted pretty much everything else I wrote
>that points out various errors in your ways, a logical explanation of
>how Krishna is mistaken, etc. At this point, I consider myself to have
>won this debate as you have chosen to almost completely ignore my
>serious response to you instead of attempting to refute.

Did you think we had a debate here?? hahaha :) That's funny.

You wouldn't know logic if it fell on your head...

Let me tell you how it is - I'm telling you how it is, and you can
accept it or not. That's totally immaterial to me. Do you think I'd
waste my time trying to have a rational discussion with a bunch of
intellectual retards on aa?? You don't discuss with stupid people, you
just kick their asses.

Krishna says:

Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the
nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the
eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by
studying the nature of both. (Bg. 2.16)

So according to Krishna's definition, reality is that which is eternal
and unreality or illusion is that which is temporary. Note that
illusion does exist, but it is unreal in the sense that it's not
eternal. Someone may object, that if I smash my head into a wall, the
pain I feel is very real. How can it not be real? But if it is seen in
the light of eternity it is not real. So illusion or unreality exist,
but they are not eternal. Illusion exists, but the reason it is not
considered real is because it is not eternal.

So reality and illusion is defined by time. One is eternal the other
is temporary. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Anything
seen in the light of eternality will just be manifested or exist for
such a short time, that it is as if it never happened. Let me explain.

Brahma, the God of creation, is said to live as long as the universe
lasts - which has been calculated to be 311,043 trillion solar years.
So if you live for such an unfathomable length of time, then imagine
what a person's life span on earth of, say, 80 years must mean. I
don't even live for a second seen from the point of view of Brahma.
How real would a person be to you if he existed for only one second?
Think about it.

If you take 80 years out of 311,042 trillion years it is such a
miniscule part of time, that for all practical purposes it might as
well not have happened. But then, if you take Brahma's lifespan and
compare it to eternal time, it is just as little. However large amount
of time is taken out of eternal time, it will still amount to nothing.
The duration of the universe, cocmic time, will make a lifespan on
earth seem completely insignificant, and the cosmic time of millions,
billions, and trillions of years seem totally inconsequential and
insignificant seen from the point of view of eternal time. So from the
point of view of eternal anything that is not eternal is an illusoty
glimpse.

That's how one can understand that anything which has a beginning and
an end, seen in the light of eternity, is illusory. Only that which is
eternal is real. Now, in this world, what is then real, someone might
ask. We don't have any experience of something that lasts forever, do
we? Yes we do. The only thing, that lasts forever is the soul - ie.
consciousness. The soul is eternal, so in the material world the only
real thing is the soul, everything else is temporary and thus
illusory.

That's why self-realization, according to Vaishnava theology, means to
realize one's eternal self beyond the temporary body and mind. Krishna
gives a brilliant argument in the Bhagavad Gita to help a thoughtful
person experience his eternal self. A person's body goes through
different stages of infancy, childhood, youth, old age and finally
death. But during all these changes of the body and the mind, the self
(the inner sense of I-feeling) or the inner observer remains constant.
That's one way we can logically understand that we are eternal.

The human life-form is unique in the sense that it allows the self to
understand its own eternality. So the purpose of human life is to
connect with the eternal self. If one is simply absorbed in the body
and its demands, one is wasting this valuable opportunity - an
opportunity that is only available in the human life form. Eating,
sleeping, mating and defending, the soul can do in any life-form, but
only in the human form can the self connect with eternality ie.
reality.

Krishna says:

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible. (Bg. 7.25)

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 05:31:53 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:57:28 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> You've omitted the part where I used one of your own quotes from 2010
>> against you, and then you omitted pretty much everything else I wrote
>> that points out various errors in your ways, a logical explanation of
>> how Krishna is mistaken, etc. At this point, I consider myself to
>> have won this debate as you have chosen to almost completely ignore
>> my serious response to you instead of attempting to refute.
>
> Did you think we had a debate here?? hahaha :) That's funny.

Indeed, "debate" was the wrong word to use, for we were merely exploring
the credibility of Kirshna and the various statements you were making.

> You wouldn't know logic if it fell on your head...

I challenge you to present a valid premise for your ad hominem attack.

> Let me tell you how it is - I'm telling you how it is, and you can
> accept it or not. That's totally immaterial to me. Do you think I'd
> waste my time trying to have a rational discussion with a bunch of
> intellectual retards on aa??

Since atheists are often well-known for being rational and skeptical,
and because you have been dedicating a significant effort here in this
"alt.atheism" newsgroup, it's logical to conclude that you expect the
answer to your question to be "no." Am I correct?

> You don't discuss with stupid people, you just kick their asses.

[snip]

Thanks! Someone else recently congratulated me for doing this too.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"... you reduce everything to rationality, reason, and logic ..."
-- Felix Unger (April 10, 2012; analyzing Fidem Turbare)

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 21:02:33 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>Indeed, "debate" was the wrong word to use, for we were merely exploring
>the credibility of Kirshna and the various statements you were making.

What is credible to you, is quite immaterial in this connection.

If someone came and told you that everything you ever held dear,
everything you believed in, everything you thought you knew, all your
values, all you hopes and aspirations, all your love for wife, kids,
family, friends, and society, in fact, the entire foundation of your
life - it is all wrong, it is all an illusion - you'd probably think
that that someone was on drugs or belonged in a mental institution.

In this modern day and age of relativism and liberalism, it is
prohibited to know the Absolute Truth. You are allowed to know with
certainty such things as science and technology, but if you claim that
you have ascertained the original, genuine knowledge of religion from
God Himself, if you profess to know God and the real meaning of life,
you are immediately dismissed as a deranged fanatic.

All religions claim the same thing, comes the invariable response.

Lets examine this typical response of modern man. You see, it is
actually quite foolish. First it is asserted, that everyone says so.
Then the fact that everyone says so, is used to negate what is being
said.

If everyone says the same thing, the logical thing to assume is that
there must be something to it. Not that everyone says the same thing,
so therefore it must be false. How does that make sense? Where is the
logic? In fact, you would expect all religions to say basically the
same things, because all religions are different cultural expressions
of the same Absolute Truth. Surely, the details may vary, but if all
religions are differently conditioned expressions of the same truth,
you'd expect that they would mention the same basic principles.

And that's what the Vedic version teaches us - that all religions are
derived from the original religion from God Himself. If this is indeed
so, it stands to reason that it can be investigated and verified. If
it is a fact, it must be discernable. Otherwise it is just some
belief, some speculation. And that is how religion is generally judged
in modern society - some fancy speculations and beliefs.

Then again, if there is a supreme entity - that which is known as God
- it is a perfectly logical to assume, that He has given a process by
which He can be known. But in the climate of the contemporary culture
that at present rules the world, it is very unpopular to claim to know
the original explanation from the Supreme Himself. How can you make
such an outrageous claim comes the response... nobody knows the
Absolute Truth. It cannot be known.

So where does this strange idea come from that the Truth cannot be
known? It comes from people, of course. It is something the majority
of the population is brought up to believe in. But it makes no sense.
If there is an Absolute Truth, if there is a God, if there is an
ultimate purpose to life, of course it can be known for certain. Why?
Because God, being the almighty, omnipresent, all-knowing Supreme,
surely He can verify Himself beyond doubt.

And if there is no God, if everything is indeed relative and material,
then it cannot be verified. By definition, you can't prove a negative.
That's the funny thing about life - if God exists, it can be known for
sure, but if God does not exist, it is not possible to know for
certain. This is not an opinion. It is a fact - if God exists, it
can be known, because then God can verify His own existence. And if He
does not exist, then it cannot be known. It's as simple as that.

Note how the propaganda machine tells us the exact opposite. It calls
religious people believers, and atheists are called unbelievers. How
misleading is that? As an atheist you believe in something that cannot
be verified. But as a theist you believe in something that, at least
theoretically, has a chance of being verified.

Thus it can be concluded that it is a an intellectually superior
position to believe in God, rather than the opposite. The first
assumption, that there is a God, has a chance of verification, whereas
the second position, that there is no God, cannot be verified.

But if you dare point out these things - even though they are
indisputable facts - you are met with a wall of resistance - no, no,
nobody knows the truth. God is merely a fairy tale. To believe in God
is no more different than believing in tooth-fairies and Santa Claus.
That's what we are told.

What we can learn from this, is that society is not ruled by
benevolent forces. What kind of society will educate it's population
in something that is so obviously false? So if you know the truth and
you want to inform people about it, you are up against a massive wall
of resistance.

[Usenet Legends bobandcarole £]

On 6 Aug., 00:15, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:43:28 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> atheist goddess" <godd...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

> >On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:57:39 +0530
> >Jahnu <Jahnud...@gamail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:33:30 +0100, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>

> >> wrote:
>
> >>> I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
>
> >> Who gives a hoot what you prefer?
>

> >I do:  "Hoot!"

>
> >> Krishna says:
>
> >> O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
> >> all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
> >> be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
>
> >> --Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12
>

> >I have a question:  If Krishna said that, why are you attributing it to
> >someone else named Srimad?
>
>    Smurf Boy has no intellect. He's like a sterile robot using key
> words to trigger Bahavgadad quotes. He hasn't had a lucid thought in
> the last fifteen years.
>
>    He's a cut and paste pathetic wanker desperate to make something of
> his wasted superstitious life.
>
>    He's like a pig waking up in the mud after twenty years and
> demanding that everyone praise his devotion to mud because he is too
> ashamed to admit he shit his life away on religion. On nothing.
> Nothing.
>
> Warlord Steve
> BAAWA

You have to remember "warlord" is regularly denounced as a latent
homosexual and troll in other froups.

--

"Well he's a friend of those long haired, hippy type, pinko fags
I'll betcha he's even got a Commie flag tacked up on the wall
inside of his garage"~~The Charlie Daniels Band.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|^^^^^^^ |P
| ♥~♥ Usenet Legends bobandcarole ♥~♥ ||”"”;..\___.
| ……_______________| l______________l _||__|…, ]P
“(@)’(@)”""""""*l'(@)l'(@)l """"""""""""""(@)'(@)""""'(@)

̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾ ™bobaлdcaяole -̮̮̃-̃
Copyright © 2012
all rights reserved
News*Justice*Social Commentary
"Bringing you the ultimate uncensored truth since 1997"
___

"Blobby doesn't know about the forgeries I post and get away
with. That morbidly obese coward doesn't even begin to
suspect me"~~ "Pat Magroyne" aka Scott Salberg proves
once and for all he's a deceitful liar. <patmagroyne @null.net>
http://img98.imageshack.us/f/screenshotpatmagroynead.jpg/.
...........................................................................................
"I mean, it's not as if I'm bringing up "ass pounding" all the time,
or doing it right in front of you."~~ Deviant homosexual sodomite
Scott Allen Salberg, aka "Enos Penvy" convicted of battery in Broward
County Florida and currently running from the humiliation of being
outed as a convicted offender to usenet.
.............................................................................................
Image snap of Court and Conviction Record, Scott Salberg.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/ninety7gt/Intelius.jpg
Conclusive evidence of the countless deceptions and forgeries
perpetrated by Scott Allen Salberg:
http://img98.imageshack.us/i/screenshotpatmagroynead.jpg/
...........................................................................................
"That changed, the complaint to IC3 is sent, it was received, I got
the complaint number and password, and we have begun the process. It
is out of my hands. THEY contact the proper authorities down here. I
did make clear that I want this matter handled in Broward County, in
which county I reside. And I've already linked you to the precedent
in matters such as this. Too late. I've already sent the complaint.
I'm going through with this. I've had enough"~~ Just another Scott
Salberg ko0kso0t/meltdown from 2008 and we're
STILL waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.... <LOL~!!!>
............................................................................................

"I think we'll be seeing less of bobandcarole...at least while I'm
around"
~Scott Allen Salberg, Resident Fool & Court Jester of APH
...............................................................................................
#1 pedophile hunters: The Urban Dictionary & Evil-Unveiled.com

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bobandcarole

http://evil-unveiled.com/Alt.support.boy-lovers
..........................................................................................
#5 ruiner of usenet.
.......................................................................................
Owner and trainer of Tom Evans aka "mad as a box of frogs"
Tom Evans actual picture: http://yfrog.com/5zt0mevansj
.........................................................................................
"Publicity is publicity, good or bad it's STILL publicity"~ Alice
Cooper
.........................................................................................
"Did you plug the hole yet Daddy?"~~Malia Obama
.........................................................................................
Now I know why they call him tiger, "ELDRICK TONT Woods"??
LMAO!! .
..............................................................................................
"There are 1000 or more reasons for a person INNOCENT of child
molesting to kill themselves"~ Arrested filth-monger frank mccoy
.............................................................................................
"A victory for one pornographer is a victory for all of the human
race"--pedophile "XXX"
...........................................................................................
Image snap of Court and Conviction Record, Scott Salberg.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/ninety7gt/Intelius.jpg
..........................................................................................
"I am so superior to you that you can't even see it"~ScottyFLL
aka "Enos Penvy" aka scott salberg-- <enospenvy @null.net>
violent criminal Broward County Fla.
............................................................................................
"You are not decent citizens, you are sick, degenerate filth. The
fact that you attend church regularly proves it"~W.T.S.--
<m14m @earthlink.net>
.............................................................................................
"Only becasue they [bestiality and necrophilia] both ARE,
[harmless] for those who get off on that sort of thing. And what
*they* do is absolutely NONE of my busines NOR any of my concern NOR
that of anyone else!!"~~Craig Chilton <r @z.com> showcases why he's
designated a ko0k even by those he claims to defend and shows his
ignorance in using a spell checker..
.............................................................................................
"I understand, you guys{The UTB} i assume you belong? have been
around forever, and are clearly a force to be reckoned with"~~Carl
<carrrrrrl @gmail.com> makes a correct statement for the first time in
his life
..................................................................................................

Why should I have to press one for English??? This is AMERICA .
<This space for rent>

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 08:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Usenet Legends bobandcarole
� <usenetleg...@gmail.com> wrote:

>You have to remember "warlord" is regularly denounced as a latent
>homosexual and troll in other froups.

What can you expect from someone who roams the usenet and calls
himself warlord?

hahaha :) How old do you think he is? 12?

Shaunaka says:

Men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who
never listen to the transcendental pastimes of Lord Sri Krishna, the
deliverer from evils. (SB. 2.3.19)

Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/zg2ks9py2-c
http://youtu.be/WK8dNgBRjoU

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 18:53:35 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 21:02:33 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> Indeed, "debate" was the wrong word to use, for we were merely

>> exploring the credibility of Krishna and the various statements you

>> were making.
>
> What is credible to you, is quite immaterial in this connection.

This isn't a connection, it's a conversation.

> If someone came and told you that everything you ever held dear,
> everything you believed in, everything you thought you knew, all your
> values, all you hopes and aspirations, all your love for wife, kids,
> family, friends, and society, in fact, the entire foundation of your
> life - it is all wrong, it is all an illusion - you'd probably think
> that that someone was on drugs or belonged in a mental institution.

People make these claims on a fairly regular basis -- it's the result
of sharing "philosophical introspection" with others.

Now if it turns out that something presented can be validated
objectively, then cognitive dissonance is going to be the driver of how
I respond because I don't perceive a new discovery as something to be
categorically feared.

> In this modern day and age of relativism and liberalism, it is
> prohibited to know the Absolute Truth. You are allowed to know with
> certainty such things as science and technology, but if you claim that
> you have ascertained the original, genuine knowledge of religion from
> God Himself, if you profess to know God and the real meaning of life,
> you are immediately dismissed as a deranged fanatic.
>
> All religions claim the same thing, comes the invariable response.

The reality is that "objective truth" (which is what I assume you meant
by the phrase "absolute truth") is not prohibited by reality, although
the search for it may be prohibited by certain oppressors such as
religious institutions or other various control freaks.

> Lets examine this typical response of modern man. You see, it is
> actually quite foolish. First it is asserted, that everyone says so.
> Then the fact that everyone says so, is used to negate what is being
> said.

You just provided an example of the infamous "bandwagon fallacy," which
tends to appeal more to members of democratically open societies.

> If everyone says the same thing, the logical thing to assume is that
> there must be something to it. Not that everyone says the same thing,
> so therefore it must be false. How does that make sense? Where is the
> logic? In fact, you would expect all religions to say basically the
> same things, because all religions are different cultural expressions
> of the same Absolute Truth. Surely, the details may vary, but if all
> religions are differently conditioned expressions of the same truth,
> you'd expect that they would mention the same basic principles.

Aside from your expectations of what religions mentioning the same
basic principles (which causes me to wonder if you're building a
straw woman), I generally support of your finding of the logical errors.

> And that's what the Vedic version teaches us - that all religions are
> derived from the original religion from God Himself. If this is indeed
> so, it stands to reason that it can be investigated and verified. If
> it is a fact, it must be discernable. Otherwise it is just some
> belief, some speculation. And that is how religion is generally judged
> in modern society - some fancy speculations and beliefs.

The Vedic version teaching is presenting extreme arrogance by implying
that it is the original religion.

> Then again, if there is a supreme entity - that which is known as God
> - it is a perfectly logical to assume, that He has given a process by
> which He can be known. But in the climate of the contemporary culture
> that at present rules the world, it is very unpopular to claim to know
> the original explanation from the Supreme Himself. How can you make
> such an outrageous claim comes the response... nobody knows the
> Absolute Truth. It cannot be known.

That's not logical because you're assuming to know the mindful
intentions of that God.

> So where does this strange idea come from that the Truth cannot be
> known? It comes from people, of course. It is something the majority
> of the population is brought up to believe in. But it makes no sense.
> If there is an Absolute Truth, if there is a God, if there is an
> ultimate purpose to life, of course it can be known for certain. Why?
> Because God, being the almighty, omnipresent, all-knowing Supreme,
> surely He can verify Himself beyond doubt.

It's a cop-out.

> And if there is no God, if everything is indeed relative and material,
> then it cannot be verified. By definition, you can't prove a negative.
> That's the funny thing about life - if God exists, it can be known for
> sure, but if God does not exist, it is not possible to know for
> certain. This is not an opinion. It is a fact - if God exists, it
> can be known, because then God can verify His own existence. And if He
> does not exist, then it cannot be known. It's as simple as that.

That's a bifurcation fallacy.

> Note how the propaganda machine tells us the exact opposite. It calls
> religious people believers, and atheists are called unbelievers. How
> misleading is that? As an atheist you believe in something that cannot
> be verified. But as a theist you believe in something that, at least
> theoretically, has a chance of being verified.

The term "unbeliever" seems to implicly describe someone who reverted
back to atheism from religion, and possibly even with a slight
anti-theistic connotation.

> Thus it can be concluded that it is a an intellectually superior
> position to believe in God, rather than the opposite. The first
> assumption, that there is a God, has a chance of verification, whereas
> the second position, that there is no God, cannot be verified.

That conclusion is a false dichotomy because intellectual superiority
and belief don't have mutually exclusive or direct causal relationships.

> But if you dare point out these things - even though they are
> indisputable facts - you are met with a wall of resistance - no, no,
> nobody knows the truth. God is merely a fairy tale. To believe in God
> is no more different than believing in tooth-fairies and Santa Claus.
> That's what we are told.
>
> What we can learn from this, is that society is not ruled by
> benevolent forces. What kind of society will educate it's population
> in something that is so obviously false? So if you know the truth and
> you want to inform people about it, you are up against a massive wall
> of resistance.

Societies are fundamentally based on sets of standards that its
participants mutually benefit from. The justifications for these
standards aren't necessarily objective in nature, but do lay an
important foundation for conformity that ensure that the society can
function effectively.

In modern civilized societies that value impartiality and scientific
methodology, theistic faiths don't conform and so they diminish over
time, but not without a struggle because major paradigm shifts which
are long-lasting tend to integrate and evolve gradually.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Religion is the original war crime."
-- Michelle "hypatiab7" Malkin (2005)

[Dissitra]

Zero was said to have been used in India in the 9thC AD. People all
seem to have been mostly born with ten fingers and toes and it is
astonishing how slow the rest of te world was to catch on ! they'd
been daubing paint on walls for around 50,000 BC of course, I was told
that in art history lessons as well...and I didn't think the theory of
dairy development came to mathes or philosophy or aesthetics until
now ! thanks guys...?

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:24:53 -0700 (PDT), Dissitra
<diss...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Zero was said to have been used in India in the 9thC AD. People all
>seem to have been mostly born with ten fingers and toes and it is
>astonishing how slow the rest of te world was to catch on ! they'd
>been daubing paint on walls for around 50,000 BC of course, I was told
>that in art history lessons as well...and I didn't think the theory of
>dairy development came to mathes or philosophy or aesthetics until
>now ! thanks guys...?

I think it is noteworthy, how Vedic culture have been and continually
is being ignored and deliberately undermined and belittled in the
western consumer culture, that at present rules the world.

I remember in the beginning of the 70s, when I went to high-school -
they taught us about ancient cultures - the Egyptians, the Syrrians,
Mesopothamia, the Harappans, the Romans etc.

We learned that the modern system of numbers - the decimal number
system - was invented by the Arabs. We learned how people of former
times were primitive cave-dwellers, and that the moderne culture is
the epitome of human development and progress.

Not one single squeek did we ever hear about the Vedic culture - the
most original and ancient culture on the planet. The culture that had
described the solar-system, mathematics, atoms, physica etc. etc. by
the time people of Europe ran around grunting, carrying clubs and
lived in caves.

Never did we learn about these things. Instead, whenever we heard
about India, it was as a back-ward, primitve culture where people
starved and suffered non-stop. That's kind of curious. Could it be
that in the modern culture there is a deliberate attempt by the ruling
powers to make people into unthinking gadget-consumers with no idea of
their roots and the real history of human-kind?

Krishna says:

My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to
you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which
you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence. (Bg. 9.1)

This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all
secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct
perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of
religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed. (Bg. 9.2)

Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/zg2ks9py2-c
http://youtu.be/WK8dNgBRjoU

[Mike Lovell]

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> Not one single squeek did we ever hear about the Vedic culture - the
> most original and ancient culture on the planet. The culture that had
> described the solar-system, mathematics, atoms, physica etc. etc. by
> the time people of Europe ran around grunting, carrying clubs and
> lived in caves.

Err, bollocks! ;-)

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[Arindam Banerjee]

On Aug 16, 1:01 pm, Mike Lovell <dev.n...@b0h0.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> > Not one single squeek did we ever hear about the Vedic culture - the
> > most original and ancient culture on the planet. The culture that had
> > described the solar-system, mathematics, atoms, physica etc. etc. by
> > the time people of Europe ran around grunting, carrying clubs and
> > lived in caves.
>
> Err, bollocks! ;-)

Bigger than e=mcc? :-)

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:54:38 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>This isn't a connection, it's a conversation.

Ok. Accepted.

I readily admit that I am here on a mission. I'm not here to make
friends orto socialize or to be informed. I am simply here to give
thinking people a chance to connect with Krishna - the Supreme
Personality of Godhead.

Besides, each and everyone of us is a missionary for his reality-view.
In my favor is the fact that I don't express my own opinion or some
modern spculation. I preach an ancient, authentic process of
self-realization carried on down through the times via the disciplic
succession.

The Hare Krishna mission has two goals. One is to fight materialism,
humanism and atheism in all their different aspects. It is obvious,
that when you conduct an ideological war against the most prevalent
reality-view of the times, you are not going to be popular. But if we
have a little historical awareness, we know that the truth-sayers in
any society have always been a hate minority.

The second part of the Hare Krishna mission is to offer the method by
which to know God as He is. The Vedic process is an elaborate system
of knowlede, but it all begins with the chanting of the name of the
Supreme Lord.

Please note, that this is not a sectarian process. We don't say that
Jehovah, Allah, or Buddha are wrong. We say that one should chant
Their names. In Hare Krishna we chant the Hare Krishna mantra, but we
don't say it is wrong to recite the names of God in other traditions.
The principle is to chant God's name. The specific name is a detail,
It is a universal, recognized process. In the standard prayer of the
Church it says, hallowed be thy name. In the Bible it urges one to
praise the name of the Lord from sun-rise to sun-set. The rosary has
the same amount of beads as the mala, or prayer-beads used in Hare
Krishna - 108. Muslems also use a mala or prayer beads. So to chant
the names of the Lord is the recommended process for this age in all
religions to connect with the Supreme Lord.

In the Upanishads it is stated that the Hare Krishna mantra is the
only function in this present age of Kali. That is not to be
understood in a sectarian way. It is to be understood, that the only
authorized pro cess of religion or yoga for this age, is to chant the
holy names of the Lord - Krishna, Jehovah, Allah, or whatever. It is
the only process that will work for this age.

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare
iti sodashakam namnam / kali-kalmasa-nashanam
natah parataropayah / sarva-vedesu drishyate

"The above mantra consisting of 32 words and 16 syllables is the only
thing that can protect against the evil influence of Kali. After
searching through all the Vedas we will find no more sublime method of
religion."

(Kali-santarana Upanishad)

Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/zg2ks9py2-c
http://youtu.be/WK8dNgBRjoU

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:01:21 -0500, Mike Lovell <dev....@b0h0.com>
wrote:

>Err, bollocks! ;-)

Because some brain-dead Mickey Mouse clone like you says so??

hahaha :) That's funny. Just see how dumb atheism makes you.

[Mike Lovell]

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On 2012-08-16, Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:01:21 -0500, Mike Lovell <dev....@b0h0.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Err, bollocks! ;-)
>
> Because some brain-dead Mickey Mouse clone like you says so??

Mickey mouse clone?

You make shit up, I call you on it. Shit or get off the pot.

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[Armchair Mountaineering]

Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:

> Vedic culture

No such thing, not unless you consider occult insanity a "culture."

---
Voting: A religious delusion that cultists and atheists agree on

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:21:35 -0500, Mike Lovell <dev....@b0h0.com>
wrote:

>Mickey mouse clone?

Yep. A mindless product of the Coca-cola culture.

>You make shit up, I call you on it. Shit or get off the pot.

Like Raven, the only thing you have managed so far, is to produce
static noice on usenet.

I admit readily that I am here on a mission. We all are. Each and

"The above mantra consisting of 32 words and 16 syllables is the only
thing that can protect against the evil influence of Kali. After
searching through all the Vedas we will find no more sublime method of
religion."

(Kali-santarana Upanishad)

[Mike Lovell]

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On 2012-08-16, Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
>>Mickey mouse clone?
>
> Yep. A mindless product of the Coca-cola culture.

What Coca-cola culture? You don't know anything about me.

Did your diaper God tell you all this?

>>You make shit up, I call you on it. Shit or get off the pot.
>
> Like Raven, the only thing you have managed so far, is to produce

> static noice on usenet. [...]

I've managed to kick your ass, that's what causes you to cut and type
"squawk squawk" or other crap.

You've been beaten down!

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[Jahnu]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 23:02:32 -0500, Mike Lovell <dev....@b0h0.com>
wrote:

>What Coca-cola culture?

Yep.

> You don't know anything about me.

I know exactly who you are - a brain-dead product of the Coca-cola
culture. A runner with the mindless masses.

Krishna says:

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire
from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized
souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
(Bg. 4.34)

Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you will
never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will
see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other

words, that they are Mine. (Bg. 4.35)

Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, when
you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will be
able to cross over the ocean of miseries. (Bg. 4.36)

As a blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire
of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities. (Bg.
4.37)

In this world, there is nothing so sublime and pure as transcendental
knowledge. Such knowledge is the mature fruit of all mysticism. And
one who has become accomplished in the practice of devotional service
enjoys this knowledge within himself in due course of time. (Bg. 4.38)

A faithful man who is dedicated to transcendental knowledge and who
subdues his senses is eligible to achieve such knowledge, and having
achieved it he quickly attains the supreme spiritual peace. (Bg. 4.39)

But ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures
do not attain God consciousness; they fall down. For the doubting soul
there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next. (Bg. 4.40)

[Mike Lovell]

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On 2012-08-16, Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
>>What Coca-cola culture?
>
> Yep.

Yep what? What Coca-cola culture?

>> You don't know anything about me.
>
> I know exactly who you are - a brain-dead product of the Coca-cola

> culture. [...]

What coca-cola culture?

> A runner with the mindless masses.

Well I am a runner that's true. Fitness fanatic.

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[Jahnu]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 23:26:12 -0500, Mike Lovell <dev....@b0h0.com>
wrote:

<blah blah>

Krishna says:

But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on
My transcendental form—to them I carry what they lack, and I preserve
what they have. (Bg. 9.22)

Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith
actually worship only Me, O son of Kunté, but they do so in a wrong
way. (Bg. 9.23)

I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those
who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. (Bg.
9.24)

Those who see with eyes of knowledge the difference between the body
and the knower of the body, and can also understand the process of
liberation from bondage in material nature, attain to the supreme
goal.
(Bg. 13.35)

O son of Bharata, as the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so
does the living entity, one within the body, illuminate the entire
body by consciousness.

The sky, due to its subtle nature, does not mix with anything,
although it is all-pervading. Similarly, the soul situated in Brahman
vision does not mix with the body, though situated in that body.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:48:40 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:01:21 -0500, Mike Lovell <dev....@b0h0.com>
> wrote:

>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:29:31 +0530 Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Not one single squeek did we ever hear about the Vedic culture - the
>>> most original and ancient culture on the planet. The culture that
>>> had described the solar-system, mathematics, atoms, physica etc.
>>> etc. by the time people of Europe ran around grunting, carrying
>>> clubs and lived in caves.
>>

>> Err, bollocks! ;-)
>
> Because some brain-dead Mickey Mouse clone like you says so??

Ad hominem attacks seem to be among your favourite responses that don't
help your position.

> hahaha :) That's funny. Just see how dumb atheism makes you.

I already handed your butt to you on a platinum-plated platter made of
a silver-gold alloy. What happened? Have you returned for more
because it didn't cover all your debts? Lucky for you these platters
grow on trees of insight here in this "alt.atheism" newsgroup.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."
-- Victor Stenger

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:41:21 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:54:38 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> This isn't a connection, it's a conversation.
>
> Ok. Accepted.
>
> I readily admit that I am here on a mission. I'm not here to make
> friends orto socialize or to be informed. I am simply here to give
> thinking people a chance to connect with Krishna - the Supreme
> Personality of Godhead.

Thank you for your honesty. I'm pretty sure this is where the problem
originates since you're doing this in the "alt.atheism" newsgroup which
is comprised of an audience that is likely going to prove to be a
complete waste of your time and effort.

I suggest that you think about a different target that could provide a
more suitable audience for your mission, one that may also provide you
with some new recruits (far more than you're ever likely to elicit from
atheists who observe or participate in this "alt.atheism" newsgroup).

> Besides, each and everyone of us is a missionary for his reality-view.
> In my favor is the fact that I don't express my own opinion or some
> modern spculation. I preach an ancient, authentic process of
> self-realization carried on down through the times via the disciplic
> succession.

By promoting that ancient philosophy you are actually expressing your
opinion(s), however indirect.

> The Hare Krishna mission has two goals. One is to fight materialism,
> humanism and atheism in all their different aspects. It is obvious,
> that when you conduct an ideological war against the most prevalent
> reality-view of the times, you are not going to be popular. But if we
> have a little historical awareness, we know that the truth-sayers in
> any society have always been a hate minority.

If you meant "anti-theism" when you wrote "atheism," then the motive
for "fighting it" would seem justifiable to me. It doesn't make sense,
however, to "fight atheism" because that would be like trying to "fight
the sun" or "fight the ocean" or even "fight the solar system" since
atheism, which is nothing more than the "absence of belief in deities
and supernatural agents" and is not intrinsically anti-theistic, is
obviously just a basic state of nature that applies to both existence
and non-existence...

After death, a person is no longer capable of believing anything since
belief requires consciousness, and henceforth one automatically reverts
to the natural atheistic state [no matter what the Mormons do about it].

That's religious philosophy. It's based on the notion of a deity, and
also seems to contain an element of passing judgement on others. I
don't have a problem with you, or anyone, choosing to believe in a
religion (and I'm well aware that many religious believers consider
their faith to be the correct one that applies to all of humanity, and
in some cases to other species as well), but I have zero interest in
becoming a theist and I have a fundamental expectation that the respect
I have for others to freely choose a religion will be afforded to me in
the same spirit of it being a personal decision or no decision at all.

I find the prosthelytizing attempts generally boring, and to some extent
obnoxious because my own interests are reasonable and, as far as I
know, don't oppress anyone or encroach upon anyone else's freedoms. To
me, religion, or the lack thereof, is a personal preference that
deserves to be respected, and I live by this because I believe that it's
a perfectly reasonable and respectful way to socialize with others.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"I have a tremendous desire to learn, and to grow, and to develop
whatever I have that will make for any kind of improvement in me."
-- Lawrence Welk

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 09:46:19 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>Thank you for your honesty. I'm pretty sure this is where the problem
>originates since you're doing this in the "alt.atheism" newsgroup which
>is comprised of an audience that is likely going to prove to be a
>complete waste of your time and effort.

Not at all. Firstly, I like to kick atheist ass. There is nothing more
harmful to the rare chance the soul gets in the human form of life to
understand the Absolute Truth, than to develop an atheistic mentality.
Secondly, atheists are heading for a very dark destiny. But just by
hearing Krishna's name, they are purified from the reactions of more
bad karma than they can commit in many lives. That's how powerful the
name of God is.

One day you will thank me for having subjected you to the sound of
Krishna's name.

>I suggest that you think about a different target that could provide a
>more suitable audience for your mission, one that may also provide you
>with some new recruits (far more than you're ever likely to elicit from
>atheists who observe or participate in this "alt.atheism" newsgroup).

You must have me confused with someone who is here soliciting
recruits.

Alt.atheism is probably the most busy group on usenet - the biggest
assembly place of crows in the world, as I call it. Thus a great many
people will become aware of Krishna, and it will benefit them, even
though they think I'm an idiot.

My spiritual master requested his disciples to help assist him in his
mission, which is two-fold - to fight atheism and to give Krishna to
the world. So that's what I'm doing here. What better place to wage
war against atheism than on aa?

>By promoting that ancient philosophy you are actually expressing your
>opinion(s), however indirect.

What's wrong with expressing my opinion? Everyone is.

>If you meant "anti-theism" when you wrote "atheism," then the motive
>for "fighting it" would seem justifiable to me. It doesn't make sense,
>however, to "fight atheism" because that would be like trying to "fight
>the sun" or "fight the ocean" or even "fight the solar system" since
>atheism, which is nothing more than the "absence of belief in deities
>and supernatural agents" and is not intrinsically anti-theistic, is
>obviously just a basic state of nature that applies to both existence
>and non-existence...

As I said, one day you will thank me for having exposed you to the
sound of the holy name.

>After death, a person is no longer capable of believing anything since
>belief requires consciousness, and henceforth one automatically reverts
>to the natural atheistic state [no matter what the Mormons do about it].

Let me tell you a little about what happens at death, as it is
depicted in the Srimad Bhagavatam.

If you have been very sinful, ie. inflicted a lot of pain on other
living entities, in your subtle body (the mind) you will be taken to
the hellish planets, where you will suffer all kinds of punishments at
the hand of the Yamadhutas for what seems like an eternity. This takes
plane on the subtle plane (some call it the astral plane) - it's like
in a dream - short time can seem to go on forever.

Afterwards you are put into another fysical body, and not necessarily
a human body.

If you have been just a normal person, not too bad or too good, like
people are most, you will blank out at death. 7 months later you'll
wake up in some womb totally bound up. This is in itself a hellish
experience. You will be fully conscious, you will know what you did to
land you in this situation. After two months in this hell, you are
pushed out into the world in total shock forgetting everything.

If you are a very pious person, you will go to the heavenly planets,
where you will enjoy for millions of years. Enjoyment in heaven is
basically the same as it is in the earthly realm - sex, drugs and
rockn'roll, but it is more refined - like on the hellish planets it
also takes place on a subtle plane. After your period of good karma is
over, you again take birth on some earth in some universe as a human.

But if you think of Krishna at death, you go back to the eternal
spiritual realm, where the soul originally came from, and there you
play with Krishna in internity, knowledge and bliss.

So the material world ranges from heaven to hell. The spiritual world
of God is the eternal realm beyond this duality.

At present, the wetern culture that dominates world takes everyone to
hell. It is such an ignorant, sinful culture that inflicts untold harm
on nature and her inhabitants.

Krishna says:

And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body remembering Me
alone at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt. (Bg 8.5)

Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of
Kunti, that state he will attain without fail. (Bg 8.6)

Arjuna asked:

O descendant of Vrishni, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even
unwillingly, as if engaged by force? (Bg. 3.36)

Krishna says:

It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material
mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the
all-devouring sinful enemy of this world. (Bg. 3.37)

As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the
embryo is covered by the womb, the living entity is similarly covered
by different degrees of this lust. (Bg. 3.38)

Thus the wise living entity's pure consciousness becomes covered by
his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and
which burns like fire. (Bg. 3.39)

The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of
this lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the living
entity and bewilders him. (Bg. 3.40)

Therefore, O Arjuna, best of the Bharatas, in the very beginning curb
this great symbol of sin [lust] by regulating the senses, and slay
this destroyer of knowledge and self-realization. (Bg. 3.41)

[Mike Lovell]

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On 2012-08-17, Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
>>Thank you for your honesty. I'm pretty sure this is where the problem
>>originates since you're doing this in the "alt.atheism" newsgroup which
>>is comprised of an audience that is likely going to prove to be a
>>complete waste of your time and effort.
>

> Not at all. Firstly, I like to kick atheist ass. [...]

You must have a very sad life then, as it's yet to happen even once! :-o

Don't worry though, we're used to close-minded bigots here. Water off a
ducks back.

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[Father Haskell]

On Aug 4, 8:39 pm, Jahnu <Jahnud...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 16:15:29 -0700, blithered:
>
> >> Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/
> >>Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.
>
> >   Met her on a Monday and my heart stood still/
> >   Da Doo Ron Ron Ron Da Doo Ron Ron/
> >   Somebody to me that her name was Jill/
> >   Da Doo Ron Ron Ron Da Doo Ron Ron/
>
> >   Same thing.
>
> As if you had a clue...

>
> hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare \
> hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=654CwfbIXxI

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 09:14:33 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>Ad hominem attacks seem to be among your favourite responses that don't
>help your position.

Who cares?

<blah blah>

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12

[Jahnu]

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:57:56 -0500, Mike Lovell blithered:

<blah blah>

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12

[Father Haskell]

On Aug 5, 2:17 pm, Irreverend Dave <reverend_d...@ministerpants.com>
wrote:

> Jahnu <Jahnud...@gamail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:33:30 +0100, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
> > wrote:
>
> >>I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
>
> > Who gives a hoot what you prefer?
>

> Mmmmmmm. Hoot owl pie!
>
> http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/briscoe.htm

Out of cream of hoot owl soup. Can I substitute
Campbell's cream of elephant?

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 19:04:41 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
<father...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Out of cream of hoot owl soup. Can I substitute
>Campbell's cream of elephant?

You can do exactly what you like within your karma (destiny).

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 07:23:25 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 09:46:19 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
> >Thank you for your honesty. I'm pretty sure this is where the
> >problem originates since you're doing this in the "alt.atheism"
> >newsgroup which is comprised of an audience that is likely going to
> >prove to be a complete waste of your time and effort.
>
> Not at all. Firstly, I like to kick atheist ass. There is nothing more
> harmful to the rare chance the soul gets in the human form of life to
> understand the Absolute Truth, than to develop an atheistic mentality.
> Secondly, atheists are heading for a very dark destiny. But just by
> hearing Krishna's name, they are purified from the reactions of more
> bad karma than they can commit in many lives. That's how powerful the
> name of God is.
>
> One day you will thank me for having subjected you to the sound of
> Krishna's name.

That looks like religious fundamentalism to me.

> >I suggest that you think about a different target that could provide
> >a more suitable audience for your mission, one that may also provide
> >you with some new recruits (far more than you're ever likely to
> >elicit from atheists who observe or participate in this
> >"alt.atheism" newsgroup).
>
> You must have me confused with someone who is here soliciting
> recruits.
>
> Alt.atheism is probably the most busy group on usenet - the biggest
> assembly place of crows in the world, as I call it. Thus a great many
> people will become aware of Krishna, and it will benefit them, even
> though they think I'm an idiot.
>
> My spiritual master requested his disciples to help assist him in his
> mission, which is two-fold - to fight atheism and to give Krishna to
> the world. So that's what I'm doing here. What better place to wage
> war against atheism than on aa?

Oh well. I tried to provide a suggestion that would be to the benefit
of your cause, and at least you can't now claim that you aren't making
an uninformed decision.

> >By promoting that ancient philosophy you are actually expressing your
> >opinion(s), however indirect.
>
> What's wrong with expressing my opinion? Everyone is.

I didn't make a claim that expressing one's opinion was wrong.

> >If you meant "anti-theism" when you wrote "atheism," then the motive
> >for "fighting it" would seem justifiable to me. It doesn't make
> >sense, however, to "fight atheism" because that would be like trying
> >to "fight the sun" or "fight the ocean" or even "fight the solar
> >system" since atheism, which is nothing more than the "absence of
> >belief in deities and supernatural agents" and is not intrinsically
> >anti-theistic, is obviously just a basic state of nature that
> >applies to both existence and non-existence...
>
> As I said, one day you will thank me for having exposed you to the
> sound of the holy name.

Well-intended is one thing, but it's a pretty safe bet that nearly all
atheists in this "alt.atheism" newsgroup have different interests that
essentially render your intentions meaningless. That's not meant to be
insulting, but rather a mere re-iteration of the obvious.

[snip - religious prosthelytizing]

That was interesting information about your religion. Thank you.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Polls are for strippers and cross-country skiers."
-- Sarah Palin (September 3, 2011; at a Tea Party rally in Iowa)

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:57:26 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>That looks like religious fundamentalism to me.

What it looks like to you, is completely immaterial in this
connection...

Krishna says:

Again I shall declare to you this supreme wisdom, the best of all
knowledge, knowing which all the sages have attained the supreme
perfection. (Bg. 14.1)

By becoming fixed in this knowledge, one can attain to the
transcendental nature like My own. Thus established, one is not born
at the time of creation or disturbed at the time of dissolution. (Bg.
14.2)

The total material substance, called Brahman, is the source of birth,
and it is that Brahman that I impregnate, making possible the births
of all living beings, O son of Bharata. (Bg. 14.3)

It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunti, are
made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the
seed-giving father. (Bg. 14.4)

Material nature consists of three modes�goodness, passion and
ignorance. When the eternal living entity comes in contact with
nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, he becomes conditioned by these modes.
(Bg. 14.5)

O sinless one, the mode of goodness, being purer than the others, is
illuminating, and it frees one from all sinful reactions. Those
situated in that mode become conditioned by a sense of happiness and
knowledge. (Bg. 14.6)

The mode of passion is born of unlimited desires and longings, O son
of Kunt�, and because of this the embodied living entity is bound to
material fruitive actions. (Bg. 14.7)

O son of Bharata, know that the mode of darkness, born of ignorance,
is the delusion of all embodied living entities. The results of this
mode are madness, indolence and sleep, which bind the conditioned
soul. (Bg. 14.8)

O son of Bharata, the mode of goodness conditions one to happiness;
passion conditions one to fruitive action; and ignorance, covering
one's knowledge, binds one to madness. (Bg. 14.9)

Sometimes the mode of goodness becomes prominent, defeating the modes
of passion and ignorance, O son of Bharata. Sometimes the mode of
passion defeats goodness and ignorance, and at other times ignorance
defeats goodness and passion. In this way there is always competition
for supremacy. (Bg. 14.10)

The manifestation of the mode of goodness can be experienced when all
the gates of the body are illuminated by knowledge. (Bg. 14.11)

O chief of the Bharatas, when there is an increase in the mode of
passion the symptoms of great attachment, fruitive activity, intense
endeavor, and uncontrollable desire and hankering develop. (Bg.
14.12)

When there is an increase in the mode of ignorance, O son of Kuru,
darkness, inertia, madness and illusion are manifested. (Bg. 14.13)

When one dies in the mode of goodness, he attains to the pure higher
planets of the great sages. (Bg. 14.14)

When one dies in the mode of passion, he takes birth among those
engaged in fruitive activities; and when one dies in the mode of
ignorance, he takes birth in the animal kingdom. (Bg. 14.15)

The result of pious action is pure and is said to be in the mode of
goodness. But action done in the mode of passion results in misery,
and action performed in the mode of ignorance results in foolishness.
(Bg. 14.16)

From the mode of goodness, real knowledge develops; from the mode of
passion, greed develops; and from the mode of ignorance develop
foolishness, madness and illusion. (Bg. 14.17)

Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the
higher planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly
planets; and those in the abominable mode of ignorance go down to the
hellish worlds. (Bg. 14.18)

When one properly sees that in all activities no other performer is at
work than these modes of nature and he knows the Supreme Lord, who is
transcendental to all these modes, he attains My spiritual nature.
(Bg. 14.19)

When the embodied being is able to transcend these three modes
associated with the material body, he can become free from birth,
death, old age and their distresses and can enjoy nectar even in this
life. (Bg. 14.20)

Arjuna inquired: O my dear Lord, by which symptoms is one known who is
transcendental to these three modes? What is his behavior? And how
does he transcend the modes of nature? (Bg. 14.21)

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: O son of Prithu, he who does
not hate illumination, attachment and delusion when they are present
or long for them when they disappear; who is unwavering and
undisturbed through all these reactions of the material qualities,
remaining neutral and transcendental, knowing that the modes alone are
active; who is situated in the self and regards alike happiness and
distress; who looks upon a lump of earth, a stone and a piece of gold
with an equal eye; who is equal toward the desirable and the
undesirable; who is steady, situated equally well in praise and blame,
honor and dishonor; who treats alike both friend and enemy; and who
has renounced all material activities�such a person is said to have
transcended the modes of nature. (Bg. 14.22-25)

One who engages in full devotional service, unfailing in all
circumstances, at once transcends the modes of material nature and
thus comes to the level of Brahman. (Bg. 14.26)

And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal,
imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of
ultimate happiness.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 20:31:01 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:57:26 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> That looks like religious fundamentalism to me.
>
> What it looks like to you, is completely immaterial in this
> connection...
>
> Krishna says:
>
> Again I shall declare to you this supreme wisdom, the best of all
> knowledge, knowing which all the sages have attained the supreme
> perfection. (Bg. 14.1)

[snip]

It's a shame you ignored the rest of my response to you. I thought you
were being sincere when you wrote it, and I responded in kind, but it's
now obvious that your rudeness confirms your lack sincerity and
decency, and to a great degree, a lack of wisdom on your part (probably
because you do not have much life experience).

Your reaction has caused me to lose interest in you. Bye.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"A person's friendships are one of the best measures of their worth."
-- Charles Darwin

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:25:16 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

<bicker, bitch, moan and whine>

The sages say:

"Among all the eternally conscious beings there is one supreme eternal
living being who is supplying the needs of all the innumerable
others." -- Katha Upanisad 2.1.12

[Irreverend Dave]

One time I substituted Cream of Sacred Cow and it just overpowered the
subtle flavour of the hoot owl. I imagine cream of elephant would be even
worse.


--
"Theology is not a source of genuine knowledge and therefore is not a
science. Reason and religion are thus at odds with each other."
- William Lane Craig

[Dakota]

On 8/18/2012 7:18 AM, Irreverend Dave wrote:
> Father Haskell <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Aug 5, 2:17 pm, Irreverend Dave <reverend_d...@ministerpants.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Jahnu <Jahnud...@gamail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:33:30 +0100, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I prefer your version to Jahnus's , Steve.
>>>
>>>> Who gives a hoot what you prefer?
>>>
>>> Mmmmmmm. Hoot owl pie!
>>>
>>> http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/briscoe.htm
>>
>> Out of cream of hoot owl soup. Can I substitute
>> Campbell's cream of elephant?
>>
>
> One time I substituted Cream of Sacred Cow and it just overpowered the
> subtle flavour of the hoot owl. I imagine cream of elephant would be even
> worse.
>

I don't like to cook so I just heat up a can of Poodle Noodle soup.

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:18:38 +0000 (UTC), Irrelevant Dave
<revere...@ministerpants.com> wrote:

>One time I substituted Cream of Sacred Cow and it just overpowered the
>subtle flavour of the hoot owl. I imagine cream of elephant would be even
>worse.

Krishna says:

By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together form the duration
of Brahma's one day (4,32 billion years). And such also is the
duration of his night. (Bg. 8.17)

At the beginning of Brahma's day, all living entities become manifest
from the unmanifest state, and thereafter, when the night falls, they
are merged into the unmanifest again. (Bg. 8.18)

Again and again, when Brahma's day arrives, all living entities come
into being, and with the arrival of Brahma's night they are helplessly
annihilated. (Bg. 8.19)

Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is
transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is
supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is
annihilated, that part remains as it is. (Bg. 8.20)

That which the Vedantists describe as unmanifest and infallible, that
which is known as the supreme destination, that place from which,
having attained it, one never returns�that is My supreme abode. (Bg.
8.21)

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

I hear that hot dog is the cat's meow.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"If you don't talk to your cat about catnip, who will?"
-- Anonymous

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:29:06 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>I hear that hot dog is the cat's meow.

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival
of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet"

-Albert Einstein

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:09:28 +0530
Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:29:06 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> I hear that hot dog is the cat's meow.
>
> "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival
> of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet"
>
> -Albert Einstein

Was Dr. Einstein also an expert on diet and human health? I only know
him as merely being an authority on scientific matters in the realm of
physics and other types of mathematics.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned
my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for
him, the spinal cord would fully suffice."
-- Dr. Albert Einstein

[Mike Lovell]

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Hash: SHA1

On 2012-08-22, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>>> I hear that hot dog is the cat's meow.
>>
>> "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival
>> of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet"
>>
>> -Albert Einstein
>
> Was Dr. Einstein also an expert on diet and human health? I only know
> him as merely being an authority on scientific matters in the realm of
> physics and other types of mathematics.

Nah, he never makes arguments from authority! He-he.

It's almost as pitiful as the creationists citing people who aren't
biologists.

As we're really interested in a Mathematicians take on the flaws of
Evolution!

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[Dakota]

On 8/21/2012 8:47 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:09:28 +0530
> Jahnu <Jahn...@gamail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:29:06 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
>> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I hear that hot dog is the cat's meow.
>>
>> "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival
>> of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet"
>>
>> -Albert Einstein
>
> Was Dr. Einstein also an expert on diet and human health? I only know
> him as merely being an authority on scientific matters in the realm of
> physics and other types of mathematics.
>

Einstein spoke wisely on a number of issues. However, what Jahnu
posted is an unverified quote attributed to Einstein. Unfortunately,
such false quotes are common.

[Fred]

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"

<god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:05:29 -0500

>> I don't like to cook so I just heat up a can of Poodle Noodle soup.
>I hear that hot dog is the cat's meow.

Best food ever created by humanity: Tom Ramen noodles, Oriental Flavor.

---
"Fred" is my Christian name.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

That explains it! Thanks again Dakota.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
-- Dan Quayle

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 18:47:53 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>Was Dr. Einstein also an expert on diet and human health? I only know
>him as merely being an authority on scientific matters in the realm of
>physics and other types of mathematics.

Actually, it's quite immaterial in this connetion what you think you
know about Einstein.

Krishna say:

An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery,
which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kunti,
such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does
not delight in them.

(Bg 5.22)

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 21:36:00 -0500, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>
wrote:

<blah blah>


I have no doubt that it is part of the destiny of the human race in
its gradual improvement to leave off eating animals.

- Henry David Thoreau

[Irreverend Dave]

Mike Lovell <dev....@b0h0.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2012-08-22, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
> <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>>>> I hear that hot dog is the cat's meow.
>>>
>>> "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival
>>> of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet"
>>>
>>> -Albert Einstein
>>
>> Was Dr. Einstein also an expert on diet and human health? I only
>> know him as merely being an authority on scientific matters in the
>> realm of physics and other types of mathematics.
>
> Nah, he never makes arguments from authority! He-he.
>
> It's almost as pitiful as the creationists citing people who aren't
> biologists.

Jahnoo's done that!

>
> As we're really interested in a Mathematicians take on the flaws of
> Evolution!

Jahnoo's done that too!

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 01:33:47 +0000 (UTC), Irrelevant Dave
<revere...@ministerpants.com> wrote:

<squawk squawk>

Krishna says:

Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among
mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the
atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me. (Bg 7.15)