I seem to be becoming more a non-believer every day
Rev Chuck
Hephaetos wrote:
> But now, it's just like, "Nah. This can't be real. Sounds like Roman mythology."
No, it's mutated Egyptian mythology. JHVH is Ammun Ra, head of the Egyptian
god hierarchy. Became so because none in heaven had a bigger schlong than he.
Your greatest day as a freethinker, the day you know you're finally liberated,
the most exhilarating feeling of joy you'll ever know, is the morning when
you wake up and finally deny the last trace of religionist bullshit, when
you deny the existance of hell itself.
Hephaetos
Being fairly new to this newsgroup, and after many a careful night
reading atheist literature, I appear to be becoming more like what I read.
I mean, I used to be a pretty faithful believer in God. I never went to
church much, except for those mandatory wedding and funeral incidents. I
never said so much as a prayer. Hell, when someone posted an anti-God
message on Usenet, I'd almost get in the mood to flame them for it. I just
believed because it seemed like everyone else around me did. It seemed like
the right thing to do. It was just how I was brought up, to believe that
one day when I died I'd skyrocket off into heaven for eternity and just be
in infinite bliss.
But now, it's just like, "Nah. This can't be real. Sounds like Roman mythology."
After careful examination into most logic, it sounds sometimes as if all
religion is just a little too strange to be true. Such things as "I'm going
to burn in hell for eternity because I thought something bad about someone
for a few moments" or "I'm going to burn in hell because I didn't repent
for something I did as a toddler" and it seems foolish and masochistic to
try to live my life by such an insanely strict set of rules. I mean, I consider
myself a basically good person. I've never killed anyone, stolen anything
(well, as a child, I'd pocket a marble or two of my cousin's...), I try to
be nice to everyone around me even when I'm having the most awful of days.
I try to live a decent life and at the end, I *still* get rewarded with
eternal torture?! Does this even sound remotely fair to anyone?
And, of course, it's always interesting trying to relate to one my
God-fearing friends on my position. I'd read alt.atheism, stop and think
about a long post shattering Christianity into dust, and try talking with
her about it. Needless to say, the response wasn't what I expected. I
wanted answers and I got endless preaching. Some of my favorites were:
"What do you mean you're not sure you believe in God?! God DOES exist!"
or:
"People like you give excuses too much. How do you explain how
everything got here? Science can't explain everything, you know. There
*must* have been some divine intervention."
and the ever popular:
"You need to have faith. You need to have something to believe in."
And all of it just seems too ridiculous sometimes. The more I read, the
more I become a non-believer, and the more I become a non-believer, the
more zealous everyone around me gets. But I'm holding strong in my
consideration that there may not be a god. Evidence tends to prove so.
Anyone else ever been in this predicament?
_________________
Hephaetos - CASHP 14-97
"Philosophies are questions that may never be answered. Religions
are answers that may never be questioned." - Unknown
Zarkov
Hephaetos,
I just want to tell you that, yes, there are many of us who have had
that problem. A lot of atheists are ex-xtian, and most of us didn't
just wake up one morning and decide it's all a lie. It's a slow
process. What provokes it can be very different for different people,
though. Often, as in your case, the questioning comes about from an
encounter with atheism/atheists. You look at what they're saying, you
think about it with an open mind, and you realize that they might have
a point, at least enough to take into serious consideration. Many
others, such as myself, become atheists without ever having met an
atheist nor read any atheist literature. I began a few years back to
study different religions and mythologies. The more I read them all,
the less any of them seemed "divine". You're right. The bible does
sound like Roman mythology. That's when I began to question. I then
picked up a copy of George H. Smith's book on atheism (it was the
first book on atheism I ever saw on the bookshelves) and read it
through a few times to see what some other religion-questioners
thought about the matter.
I can't push you to become an atheist. I won't evangelize to you. If
I did that, I'd feel like Billy Graham, and I don't really feel like
stooping to that level. All I'm telling you is that you aren't alone.
It may seem that way sometimes, though. I've lost friends over this.
There are honestly people out there who are so stuck up with their
religious dogma that they won't even remain friends with an atheist.
Shit happens. There's definitely an emotional appeal to religion.
That's what they're good at. I'd advise you to seperate yourself from
that as much as you can. Think for yourself. Please don't just be
swayed by us sweet-talking atheists on the news groups. I'd really
hate anybody to become atheist just because I had a good argument.
Read a few books. One or two on atheism is fine. What you really
need to read are some religion books. A few different ones. Analyze
the situation for yourself, and come to your own conclusion.
As for people who refuse to associate with you if you question this
god concept: Forget 'em. Most of us have been there, and most of us
know what it's like. If you need help, I think Mickey's list is
nearly at a thousand atheists right here, most of whom would be glad
to give you some good resources. All I'm saying is think. I will
never advocate atheism. I will always encourage free thought. Don't
worry about preaching. I've gotten to the point where I tune it out.
If a theist can't argue with some intelligence, then they're not worth
any time. (BTW, I have had some very intellectually stimulating
discussions with some theists, so they're not all as preachy as your
friend.) Sure, it gets annoying after a while. If it really bothers
you, don't make it a habit of seeing that person. If you don't mind,
then see her all you want. If a person really can't handle you
questioning their religion, then there's not much confidence there,
nor any respect.
--Zarkov #951
zar...@netnitco.net
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5999
Michelle Malkin
heph...@remove.this.hotmail.com (Hephaetos) wrote:
>In article <346f967b...@news.netnitco.net>, zar...@netnitco.net
>(Zarkov) wrote:
>>On Sun, 16 Nov 1997 08:35:36 GMT, heph...@remove.this.hotmail.com
>>(Hephaetos) wrote:
>>
>>>Being fairly new to this newsgroup, and after many a careful night
>>>reading atheist literature, I appear to be becoming more like what I read.
>[...]
>>
>>Hephaetos,
>>
>>I just want to tell you that, yes, there are many of us who have had
>>that problem. A lot of atheists are ex-xtian, and most of us didn't
>>just wake up one morning and decide it's all a lie. It's a slow
>>process. What provokes it can be very different for different people,
>>though. Often, as in your case, the questioning comes about from an
>>encounter with atheism/atheists. You look at what they're saying, you
>>think about it with an open mind, and you realize that they might have
>>a point, at least enough to take into serious consideration.
>True. That and I've never really had a deeply rooted belief of Christianity
>anyhow. Like I've said, I merely believed because it was what I was
>taught. I'd never "Amen!" or claim a "Holy Ghost" or anything. Atheism is a
>logical perspective on the entire thing.
>[...]
>>I can't push you to become an atheist. I won't evangelize to you. If
>>I did that, I'd feel like Billy Graham, and I don't really feel like
>>stooping to that level. All I'm telling you is that you aren't alone.
>>It may seem that way sometimes, though. I've lost friends over this.
>>There are honestly people out there who are so stuck up with their
>>religious dogma that they won't even remain friends with an atheist.
>>Shit happens. There's definitely an emotional appeal to religion.
>>That's what they're good at. I'd advise you to seperate yourself from
>>that as much as you can. Think for yourself. Please don't just be
>>swayed by us sweet-talking atheists on the news groups. I'd really
>>hate anybody to become atheist just because I had a good argument.
>>Read a few books. One or two on atheism is fine. What you really
>>need to read are some religion books. A few different ones. Analyze
>>the situation for yourself, and come to your own conclusion.
>Oh, I've pretty much came to my conclusion already. Even tried discussing
>my doubts on a Christian IRC channel, (Yes, yes I know. Not the wisest
>place one could look to for advice, but it was one in the morning) and I
>was kicked. Really shows the close-mindedness of people.
>>
>>As for people who refuse to associate with you if you question this
>>god concept: Forget 'em. Most of us have been there, and most of us
>>know what it's like. If you need help, I think Mickey's list is
>>nearly at a thousand atheists right here, most of whom would be glad
>>to give you some good resources.
>Happen to have Smith's book title handy?
It's called "Atheism: The Case Against God" by George H. Smith. The Welcome To
Alt. Atheism FAQ that I post each week in alt.atheism has a lot of atheism
website addresses that should be helpful to you. Read, think and make up your
own mind about what you want to believe or not.
>>All I'm saying is think. I will
>>never advocate atheism. I will always encourage free thought. Don't
>>worry about preaching. I've gotten to the point where I tune it out.
>>If a theist can't argue with some intelligence,
>Which most so far haven't.
>>then they're not worth
>>any time. (BTW, I have had some very intellectually stimulating
>>discussions with some theists, so they're not all as preachy as your
>>friend.) Sure, it gets annoying after a while. If it really bothers
>>you, don't make it a habit of seeing that person. If you don't mind,
>>then see her all you want. If a person really can't handle you
>>questioning their religion, then there's not much confidence there,
>>nor any respect.
>>--Zarkov #951
>>zar...@netnitco.net
>>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5999
>Yeah, I got that feeling when I tried to bring up the subject again with a
>variety of people. Thanks, though, for your suggestions.
>_________________
>Hephaetos - CASHP 14-97
>"Philosophies are questions that may never be answered. Religions
> are answers that may never be questioned." - Unknown
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Niall McAuley
heph...@remove.this.hotmail.com (Hephaetos) writes:
>Being fairly new to this newsgroup, and after many a careful night
>reading atheist literature, I appear to be becoming more like what I read.
>The more I read, the
>more I become a non-believer, and the more I become a non-believer, the
>more zealous everyone around me gets.
>Anyone else ever been in this predicament?
Not exactly. I never ran into much zealotry, but I can really empathize
with your experience of reading. Reading widely was what made me think
about religion and atheism. The non-believers have all the good arguments,
and the religious response is usually sad: the usual farrago of illogic
addressed in the FAQs.
Welcome to the group.
--
Niall #36 [real address ends in se, not es]
Don Antropos
Steven Lalewicz <st...@mfltd.REMOVE.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
Your not going to preach here on alt.atheism, now are you?
>Yeh, sounds like a pretty lame religion to me. Now I know why the atheists
>on this newsgroup can be quite anti christian sometimes.
We have manymanymany reasons, believe me.
> I think they have
>done the right thing by avoiding this kind of thinking.
Not the right thing, the only thing a mentally sound person can do.
>I could never see why a God would torture people for ever. I came to the
>conclusion, if God did exist, then christians would have got him wrong.
>I guess you have to decide what the bible means for yourself.
Come on, you know it's crap. Why still give it the benefit of the
doubt?
> In my
>opinion, if you chuck something in a fire is ceases to be.
Yeah, and good riddance.
> Mind you I
>doubt we will really see a huge fire literally. I guess it's just an
>image of the finality of it all. What does a non believer expect from
>life anyway? Not alot.
Au contraire mon ami. Life will start once you stop waiting, fearing
and hoping for an afterlife.
> We live and then we die.
With lots of things inbetween, yes?
> Most confident we are
>worm fodder.
Which would still be better than priest fodder.
>
>As I see christianity, it is about being saved by God's grace.
Well, sorry to disappoint you, but you're mistaken.
> There is
>no fear of going to hell because one believes in God's son Jesus who died
>so we could be reconciled with God.
Just another frase that really means nothing when you really think
about it.
> God saves us by grace because he loves us.
And another one. Yoho, it's mantra time!
> This removes the fear of needing to be good enough for God. However
>it would be foolish to abuse God's grace by continueing to delibrately
>do what we understand is wrong. God's grace allows us to make mistakes,
>learn and try again without any fear of not being good enough and hell.
How clever!
>Okay this springs up many questions (like what about those who don't
>believe in Jesus? and so on) but for some people Jesus is good news
>rather than bad news.
Well, for many of us it's no news at all, but ancient history. So
scram!!!
>My guess is if you believe that you go to eternal torture for not believing
>in God, you will not want to doubt much.
O how very christian of you to say that.
>There are lots of christians who believe in evolution. Evolution does not
>say anything about Gods.
Some try to combine evolution theory with theism.....and they have
failed.
>I do believe God is out there to be descovered, but sitting back waiting
>for him to show up has a pretty good track record of confirming there is
>no God.
So you only can find this god-fantasy if you really want to find it,
isn't it?
>It's sounds like your doubt can only lead you to more healthy thinking.
>Good luck in your search. From the 'beliefs' you were taught from
>childhood your world view can only get better.
>Doubt is healthy. I wonder if atheists doubt the non existance of God
>from time to time :-).
Doubt is healthy indeed. I wonder if you doubt the existance of God
from time to time ]-|
I think you should leave now!!!!
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I hold all religion as disgusting means of oppression and subjection.
The believe in an afterlife is altogether nothing else but hatred against life itself.
The benefits of religion never outweigh the costs.
Aristologos
Don Antropos
nospam....@cistron.nl
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