Re: Prayer of the Day
Uncle Vic
(re...@ukministry.org) made the light shine upon us with this:
> Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful
> to us.Thank you that you have created us in your own image so that we
> may love you,glorify you and serve you. Thank you for many blessings
> you give us day by day:food, clothing, shelter, children, partners,
> friends, rainfall, sunshine,changes of weather, winter, summer, spring
> and autumn. All these and many othergraces show us how great and
> merciful you are to us, your children. We aresinners, who do not
> deserve such blessings. But since you are merciful, kind andjust, you
> provide these things without any cost.
>
> Thank you also that you have revealed yourself to us through Jesus
> Christ yourdear Son, who came on this earth and died for our sins.
> Thank you that you havesent us your Holy Spirit so that he may guide
> us in our Christian paths. We askyou to continue to bless us day by
> day, and give us courage, hope and strengthso that we may continue to
> follow and serve you faithfully.
>
> We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
> Sylvester T Kafunzile, Tanzania
>
>
>
<PLONK>
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
-----
Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors
of a catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving God while this
same God drowned infants in their cribs. - Sam Harris
Enkidu
ydnXYGueJfzC3en...@giganews.com:
> We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
"Jesus, save us from your followers."
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Encourage free schools and resolve that not one dollar appropriated for
their support shall be appropriated to the support of any sectarian
schools. Resolve that neither the state nor nation, nor both combined,
shall support institutions of learning other than those sufficient to
afford every child growing up in the land of opportunity of a good common
school education, unmixed with sectarian, pagan, or atheistical dogmas.
Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church and the
private school supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church
and state forever separate.
-- Ulysses S. Grant
GoDrex
"UK Ministry of St Luke" <re...@ukministry.org> wrote in message
news:c-ydnXYGueJfzC3e...@giganews.com...
> Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful to
> us.Thank you that you have created us in your own image so that we may
love
> you,glorify you and serve you. Thank you for many blessings you give us
day
> by day:food, clothing, shelter, children, partners, friends, rainfall,
> sunshine,changes of weather, winter, summer, spring and autumn. All these
> and many othergraces show us how great and merciful you are to us, your
> children. We aresinners, who do not deserve such blessings. But since you
> are merciful, kind andjust, you provide these things without any cost.
>
> Thank you also that you have revealed yourself to us through Jesus Christ
> yourdear Son, who came on this earth and died for our sins. Thank you that
> you havesent us your Holy Spirit so that he may guide us in our Christian
> paths. We askyou to continue to bless us day by day, and give us courage,
> hope and strengthso that we may continue to follow and serve you
faithfully.
>
>
>
bugger off you bloody old sod! :p
Liz
<re...@ukministry.org> in news message
<c-ydnXYGueJfzC3e...@giganews.com> wrote:
[-----]
>
>We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
>Sylvester T Kafunzile, Tanzania
Oh right, you're the bastard behind all those Tanzanian email scams.
Although why anyone would fall for the send me your money now and
you'll get what you deserve later ploys is beyond me.
Liz #658 BAAWA
It's an incredible con job when you think about it, to
believe in something now in exchange for something after
death. Even corporations with their reward systems don't
try to make it posthumous. -- Gloria Steinem
Explainer
If you take Jesus' teachings seriously,
you have to admit he was basically
a Marxist, and that most of his so-called followers
in the world today would basically
crucify him again if they had the chance.
wbarwell
Why are you wasting your time?
------------------------------
IS THERE A GOD? NO.
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and consciousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed
for the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, and Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually
logically derivable from the claimed attribute of
omnipotence and so aren't not truly independent
attributes, and may be considered special aspects
of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the
only such god, that he is is immortal and that
god has always existed that are not important
for this discussion and for now, can be ignored.
They are secondary arguments and are for the most
part not foundational or truly necessary, except
those that can be logically derived from the
attributes listed above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a
definition not for a particular god, but an
entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here.
Christianity claims one may attain salvation
only through Jesus, Islam claims the Christian
dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous.
Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a
personal, creator, omni-everything god. I have
coined a term, The Grand God of Grand Theologies
for this sort of god, this sort of theological
system of expansive claims for god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have
adopted this class of god as their basic
attributes concerning the nature of god. But it
is important to remember here that what is being
discussed here is a class of gods, not particular
gods or specific gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand
Theologies holding to this basic class of god as
their basic definitions of what god is at god's
most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it
collapses rather easily into internal self-
contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by
Epicurus in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God is not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or
omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE
The free will defense of the problem of evil goes
back to St. Augustine who popularized it. It is
still popular, and is championed most notably
today by Alvin Plantinga, but also by other
theologians.
God gave man free will. Man freely chooses to do
evil. Ability to do evil is less evil than
lacking free will.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE DEBUNKED.
God has free will.
God is omnibenevolent, he has a good nature
incapable of doing evil.
A. If god can have free will, and a good nature,
this good nature is not allowed to count
against god's free will.
B. Nor is god's lack of ability to do evil
allowed to count against god's omnipotence.
C. Likewise, man could easily have a god like
free will and a god like good nature.
D. Inabilty then to do evil would no more count
against man's free will than it does for god's
free will.
E. If so, it also counts against god's free will
and god does not have free will as claimed.
F. If god does not have absolute and total free
will, thus free will is not a true necessity
at all.
F. If god is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, and
can give man a god like free will and a
god-like good nature incapable of moral evil,
god must do so or god is not moral, not
omnibenevolent.
G. Evil exists because he allows it to.
So free will does not exist, or it does and we can
have a god like free will and a god like good
nature. Either way, free will cannot explain away
the existence of evil. This free will defense
then, is a failed argument.
OMNISCIENCE VERSUS CREATORHOOD OF GOD
God is defined as creator of all in most
religions.
And god is claimed to be omniscient, all knowing.
A. God created the Universe and all in it.
B. God is omniscient, all knowing, he knows all
in the Universe and he knows the future of the
Universe and its contents.
C. If god creates a Universe, he will know that
in 13 billion years this Universe will have a
man named John Smith in it.
D. If John Smith is good and saved, or evil and
damned, God will know that.
E. As he knows that the Universe in its present
state will have a John Smith, god may then
contemplate the future state of Smith and
decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
F. If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a
specific personal and will choice made solely
by god.
G. If Smith is evil, then evil exists solely
because of a choice made by god. In fact all
moral evil done by creations of god will be
evil and do evil only because of personal and
willful creations of god allowing evil acts
to be done, by direct decision of god.
H. If evil exists in a world with an omniscient
creator god, it is solely and only because
god allows evil.
I. If evil exists solely because of personal
choices of god, god then is not as defined,
omnibenevolent.
J. Man and any other sentient being in such a
Universe cannot have any free will, not even
in principle. A Universe with a god that
creates all and knows all precludes free will
for all beings god creates in the strongest
possible manner.
The Grand God of Grand
Theology is thus self destroying, it is
incoherent and contradictory as a theory.
THE SITUATION SO FAR.
1. A minimalistic class of gods is defined, this
Grand God has been defined here with as few
terms as possible.
2. The problem of evil dooms such a claimed god.
3. The attempted defense, free will is fatally
flawed. God's good nature and free will doom
claims free will makes evil necessary for man
to have free will.
4. Omniscience and creatorhood of god further
doom claims of god's omnibenevolence and
man's free will free will cannot exist for
man. All evil is the direct and knowing
creation of god contradicting claims of
omnibenevolence.
5. Since Free will for man is totally impossible,
free will cannot be a good quality, much less
necessary.
Here, the Grand God of Grand Theology has
collapsed. As has Grand
Theology. As pointed out, this destroys the claims
and viability of an entire class of possible
gods,
all secondary and tertiary claims for such a god
of
this class also fail, as do dogmas or secondary
or tertiary claims.
If a these Grand Gods cannot exist as defined,
specific gods cannot, nor can claims such as this
or that Grand God sent this or that revelation to
man or some prophet or did this or that.
God is thus disproven and is utter irrelevant
to anything real and existant.
***********
--
Wassail, Happy Holidays, Merry Solstice, Happy
Saturnalia, mull the wine and pass the eggnog.
Cheerful Charlie
Mark K. Bilbo
Luke" <re...@ukministry.org> wrote:
> Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful to
> us.Thank you that you have created us in your own image so that we may
> love you,glorify you and serve you. Thank you for many blessings you give
> us day by day:food, clothing, shelter, children, partners, friends,
> rainfall, sunshine,changes of weather, winter, summer, spring and autumn.
> All these and many othergraces show us how great and merciful you are to
> us, your children. We aresinners, who do not deserve such blessings. But
> since you are merciful, kind andjust, you provide these things without any
> cost.
>
> Thank you also that you have revealed yourself to us through Jesus Christ
> yourdear Son, who came on this earth and died for our sins. Thank you that
> you havesent us your Holy Spirit so that he may guide us in our Christian
> paths. We askyou to continue to bless us day by day, and give us courage,
> hope and strengthso that we may continue to follow and serve you
> faithfully.
>
> We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
> Sylvester T Kafunzile, Tanzania
What? You think Jeebus is going to give you brownie points for a Usenet
post?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
So much for that "storm of the century" excuse
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A3992495C
NO held hostage by oil corporations,
ANWR demanded as ransom
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J5C92195C
White House balks at spending on US citizens,
needs more billions for Iraq!
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D93595C
(Tell me again how much we spent bailing out the S&Ls?)
R. Pierce Butler
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
They would kill him for sure.
Here is proof.
http://www.joeyskaggs.com/html/retsub.html
Crucifixion Performance
Easter Sunday, 1969
Skaggs dragged the Crucifix sculpture through the Easter Parade up Fifth
Avenue to the doors of St. Patrick's Cathedral. As he turned towards the
Cathedral, the doors slammed shut and the police converged around him. As the
crowd shouted "Kill him, kill him," police officers kicked the cross into his
back. They then made him drag it down the street to a paddy wagon, all the
while threatening, cursing, and kicking him.
It is not hard imagining the crowd of good christians shouting "crucify
him...crucify him!"
Michael Gray
<re...@ukministry.org> wrote:
>Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful to
>us.Thank you that you have created us in your own image so that we may love
>you,glorify you and serve you. Thank you for many blessings you give us day
>by day:food, clothing, shelter, children, partners, friends, rainfall,
>sunshine,changes of weather, winter, summer, spring and autumn. All these
>and many othergraces show us how great and merciful you are to us, your
>children. We aresinners, who do not deserve such blessings. But since you
>are merciful, kind andjust, you provide these things without any cost.
>
>Thank you also that you have revealed yourself to us through Jesus Christ
>yourdear Son, who came on this earth and died for our sins. Thank you that
>you havesent us your Holy Spirit so that he may guide us in our Christian
>paths. We askyou to continue to bless us day by day, and give us courage,
>hope and strengthso that we may continue to follow and serve you faithfully.
>
>We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
>Sylvester T Kafunzile, Tanzania
>
I notice that you didn't thank him for the parasitic worms, who's only
function is to burrow into children's eyeballs, and cause
excruicitaing pain, or Tsunamis that brutally batter and then slowly
drown thousands of babies.
dgillesp
UK Ministry of St Luke wrote:
>
> Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful to
....................................................................
>
> We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
What in heaven's name do you hope to accomplish by posting prayer on an
atheist news group? To confirm their impression of Christians as
totally asinine, boorish and disrespectful of those who don't share our
faith? If an atheist moved next door, would you march right over, knock
and when the door opened, would you immediately insist: "Let us pray"?
I don't think so. The effect on this news group, however, is quite the
same. An apology would do worlds more for a serious consideration of
the faith, if you could bring yourself to offer one.
--
Denny
"There are only two kinds of men: the righteous who think they are
sinners and the sinners who think they are righteous." Blasé Pascal
Josef Balluch
In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
...
> An apology would do worlds more for a serious consideration of
> the faith, if you could bring yourself to offer one.
Consider how much negative reaction you have produced over the years,
Denny. So, ........ will we be seeing your apology in your next post?
Regards,
Josef
Egotism is the anesthetic given by a kindly nature to relieve the pain
of being a damned fool.
-- Bellamy Brooks
Mark K. Bilbo
> UK Ministry of St Luke wrote:
>>
>> Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful
>> to
> ....................................................................
>>
>> We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
> What in heaven's name do you hope to accomplish by posting prayer on an
> atheist news group?
To make people despise Christianity even more?
Steve Knight
<re...@ukministry.org> wrote:
>Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful to
>us.Thank you that you have created us in your own image so that we may love
>you,glorify you and serve you.
Thank you, Lawd! Thank you for hurricanes, tsunamis, smallpox, flu,
Bush, AIDS, cancer, stillborn/miscarriages, and especially for all the
Priests that act in Your Glorious Name to butt fuck innocent children
and make them suffer like You Suffered.
GLORY UNTO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
WE ARE UNWORTHY OF YOUR LOVE!!!!!!!!!
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
zambon...@knowshpamatyahoo.com
<re...@ukministry.org> wrote:
>Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful to
>us.Thank you that you have created us in your own image so that we may love
>you,glorify you and serve you. Thank you for many blessings you give us day
>by day:food, clothing, shelter, children, partners, friends, rainfall,
>sunshine,changes of weather, winter, summer, spring and autumn. All these
>and many othergraces show us how great and merciful you are to us, your
>children. We aresinners, who do not deserve such blessings. But since you
>are merciful, kind andjust, you provide these things without any cost.
>
>Thank you also that you have revealed yourself to us through Jesus Christ
>yourdear Son, who came on this earth and died for our sins. Thank you that
>you havesent us your Holy Spirit so that he may guide us in our Christian
>paths. We askyou to continue to bless us day by day, and give us courage,
>hope and strengthso that we may continue to follow and serve you faithfully.
>
>We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
>Sylvester T Kafunzile, Tanzania
>
Do you need a tissue now that you've finished verbally masturbating?
--
zamboni #2139
BAAWA Assistant to the Vice-Administrator of Malevolence
EAC Tertiary Adjunct to the Dispenser of Obfuscation.
Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian
give him a damn boner.
Provided it could exist, of course.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
Why I am not a christian:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus/nojebus
Michael Gray
wrote:
>
>
>UK Ministry of St Luke wrote:
>>
>> Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful to
>....................................................................
>>
>> We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
>What in heaven's name do you hope to accomplish by posting prayer on an
>atheist news group? To confirm their impression of Christians as
>totally asinine, boorish and disrespectful of those who don't share our
>faith? If an atheist moved next door, would you march right over, knock
>and when the door opened, would you immediately insist: "Let us pray"?
>I don't think so. The effect on this news group, however, is quite the
>same. An apology would do worlds more for a serious consideration of
>the faith, if you could bring yourself to offer one.
WWNFD:
What would Ned Flanders do?
kathryn
"Enkidu" <jdwn...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9738828C...@130.133.1.4...
> "UK Ministry of St Luke" <re...@ukministry.org> wrote in news:c-
> ydnXYGueJfzC3en...@giganews.com:
>
>> We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
> "Jesus, save us from your followers."
>
> --
> Enkidu AA#2165
Amen
--
a.a # 2216
"We have toasters in this country...and they lie to us! Because it has
numbers from one to six and it lies to us!"
Eddie Izzard
kathryn
"wbarwell" <wbar...@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:11r0qpq...@corp.supernews.com...
> UK Ministry of St Luke wrote:
>
>
> Why are you wasting your time?
>
He's strained his wanking arm and needs something to fill the hours?
Robibnikoff
Christopher A. Lee
Was there any reson you rubbed your defecation is our facs, moron?
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:25:36 -0000, "UK Ministry of St Luke"
<re...@ukministry.org> wrote:
>Thank you, Lord God, our heavenly Father, that you are always merciful to
>us.Thank you that you have created us in your own image so that we may love
>you,glorify you and serve you. Thank you for many blessings you give us day
>by day:food, clothing, shelter, children, partners, friends, rainfall,
>sunshine,changes of weather, winter, summer, spring and autumn. All these
>and many othergraces show us how great and merciful you are to us, your
>children. We aresinners, who do not deserve such blessings. But since you
>are merciful, kind andjust, you provide these things without any cost.
>
>Thank you also that you have revealed yourself to us through Jesus Christ
>yourdear Son, who came on this earth and died for our sins. Thank you that
>you havesent us your Holy Spirit so that he may guide us in our Christian
>paths. We askyou to continue to bless us day by day, and give us courage,
>hope and strengthso that we may continue to follow and serve you faithfully.
>
>We ask all this through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
>
>Sylvester T Kafunzile, Tanzania
>
johac
"UK Ministry of St Luke" <re...@ukministry.org> wrote:
Prayer (n):
1) Speaking into telephone with no one at the other
end of the line.
2) Talking to one's self and expecting an answer.
3) Verbal masturbation.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
Josef Balluch
In a message sent 'round the world, Josef Balluch poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
> In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
> with the following:
> > An apology would do worlds more for a serious consideration of
> > the faith, if you could bring yourself to offer one.
>
>
> Consider how much negative reaction you have produced over the years,
> Denny. So, ........ will we be seeing your apology in your next post?
No response, Denny?
As I expected, you are ever the hypocrite.
Regards,
Josef
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:3