Why should God have to explain himself to you bums

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Noel

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Feb 25, 2005, 6:26:42 PM2/25/05
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If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?
On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
anyway. It would be an impossible argument.
Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.

NC

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Feb 25, 2005, 6:32:07 PM2/25/05
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noel...@iol.ie (Noel) wrote in news:c24b49f4.0502251526.4453c9d2
@posting.google.com:

Do you feel better now?

noel...@iol.ie

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Feb 25, 2005, 6:46:33 PM2/25/05
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yea, how about you?

wildbl...@hotmail.com

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Feb 25, 2005, 6:51:13 PM2/25/05
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Noel wrote:
> Why should God have to explain
> himself. Does God owe him something?

> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.
> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.

how long have you been suffering from these delusions Noel?

Cary Kittrell

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Feb 25, 2005, 7:00:04 PM2/25/05
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In article <c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com> noel...@iol.ie (Noel) writes:
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway. It would be an impossible argument.

You know, you're right. You're absolutely right on this one.
Thank you for making such a compelling and unimpeachable
case for God's existance. I shall turn my life over
to God immediately.

Would you mind answering just one more thing before I do that?
Thanks...

How do I decide which One is Him? There are WAY too many
choices.


-- cary


Doc Smartass

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Feb 25, 2005, 7:31:17 PM2/25/05
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noel...@iol.ie (Noel) wrote in
news:c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com:

> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world.

Religious opinion is not intelligence.

> Does God owe him something?

Bitch owes me $50. Tell him to pay up or the Pope gets it.

> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.

For being evil, yes. By any christer's definition of "god"--all-knowing,
all-powerful, all-good, all-kiss-my-ass, it's doing fuck-all to meet that
standard, what with all the thousands who died because of a giant wave, or
the millions who die of disease and starvation, or my neighbor's fucking
dog who got run over BY HIS OWN OWNER when I was 8 years old.

Your god is omni-nonexistent, laddiebuck.

> It would be an impossible argument.

I just argued it. You lose and therefore owe me $50.

> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.

James Caan? He's still alive, man.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001001/


So is Jackie Chan.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000329/

Neither of them ever raised the dead, for all their acting ability.

--
Dr. Smartass -- BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939

Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur, nor?

Douglas Berry

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:32:04 PM2/25/05
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On 25 Feb 2005 15:26:42 -0800, noel...@iol.ie (Noel) drained his
beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed
the following

>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
>the wonders of this world.

I recognize the wonders of the universe, but unlike you, I have
learned about the natural processes that led to them.

>Does God owe him something?

An apology for the 2002 World Series would be nice.

>On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
>known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
>anyway. It would be an impossible argument.

If a deity revealed itself to me in a manneer that made it clear
beyond any reasonable doubt that it was in fact a God, then I'd have
to believe. Fixing everything that's wrong with my body would be a
good start.

>Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.

So did Apollinous of Tyana. Big deal. Mythology is full of
characters that could raise the dead.
--

Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.

Al Klein

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:45:41 PM2/25/05
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On 25 Feb 2005 15:26:42 -0800, noel...@iol.ie (Noel) said in
alt.atheism:

>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person

He shouldn't. We're not talking about him, we're talking about his
representatives. If *YOU* want to talk about him, *YOU'RE* going to
have to post objective evidence that he objectively exists.

Understand the difference between YOU and YOUR GOD?

>Look what they did to JC

Characters in novels don't have things "done to" them. Unless you
have objective evidence? Or you're claiming to *be* him?
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)

manut...@yahoo.com

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:56:09 PM2/25/05
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On the other hand, the question "Why should God have to explain
himself?" assumes that he has not done and does not do so, which
invalidates pretty much all religions and all scriptures right there.
You cannot both assert that he does explain himself, and explain why he
does not explain himself, without contradicting yourself.

Mark Nutter
manut...@alethian.org
http://www.alethian.org/ -- Information about Alethea, the God who does
not explain herself, and about Alethian faith and practice.

Don Kresch

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Feb 25, 2005, 9:29:21 PM2/25/05
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In alt.atheism on 25 Feb 2005 15:26:42 -0800, noel...@iol.ie (Noel)
let us all know that:

>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
>the wonders of this world.

Because you're not intelligent enough to grasp that there is no
god.


Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"

sAnToLiNa

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Feb 25, 2005, 9:47:23 PM2/25/05
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Noel <noel...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com...

> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?

Yep, He owes me a fucking explanation. I'm going to treat him like the
churlish, adolescent little fuck that you seem to believe He is.

> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.

Not if She had nice tits.


> It would be an impossible argument.

Can create a universe but can't argue successfully with an atheist. That's
the trouble with you idiot believers, you always project God to be as
fucking stupid as you are.


Secular Fundamentalist

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Feb 25, 2005, 10:13:21 PM2/25/05
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We aren't asking God to justify himself. We know he can't. We are asking
*you* to justify why you believe in him. All we ever get is strawmen, ad
hominem, drivel and doublethink.

Tell us why you believe in God. We already know why we don't. It *isn't*
a matter of choice. It's a matter of honesty.

--
David Silverman F.L.A.H.N.
aa #2208

Debate is futile if no distinction is made between balance and honesty.

Lester Solnin

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Feb 25, 2005, 10:24:04 PM2/25/05
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Getting Jimmy Carter involved?

Les


"Noel" <noel...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com...

Liz

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Feb 25, 2005, 10:22:49 PM2/25/05
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On 25 Feb 2005 15:26:42 -0800, noel...@iol.ie (Noel) in news message
<c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com> wrote:

>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice.

If it is a choice to believe in the evidence, then yes, it is
personal. Many people believe because they are afraid not to believe.
That is personal also.

>Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
>the wonders of this world.

A bit of poisoning the well there, Noel. God® doesn't, and in fact
can't, explain diddly, but the wonders of the world are evident for
all to recognize. In fact, they are all the more marvelous when you
look at the physical universe and realize that the way it behaves is
far more fascinating and interesting that the made up stories of
Middle Eastern shepherds.

>Does God owe him something?

No. In fact, God® is incapable of owing anyone anything.
Non-existence has a way of doing that.

>On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
>known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
>anyway.

Since it has never happened you are speculating on those things not in
evidence. (See the .sig)

>It would be an impossible argument.

That God® actually exists. Yes, that would be an impossible argument.

>Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.


And Icarus flew too close to the sun and his wings melted.

Liz #658 BAAWA

"Speculating on the possible reaction to evidence is no excuse for
failing to produce the evidence." - Wayne M. Delia

John Popelish

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Feb 25, 2005, 11:01:26 PM2/25/05
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Noel wrote:
>
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?

Fair question. Here is another. If some god did create the entire
universe, why would it have the slightest care what some animals on
one planet think about its existence?



> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.

The atheists I know are realists. If something is real, they are
interested in knowing about it.

> It would be an impossible argument.
> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.

You are speaking of mythology as if it were history.

--
John Popelish

The great philosopher-criminologist

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Feb 25, 2005, 11:27:02 PM2/25/05
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I agree with Noel, It would really make no difference if you could
prove to them if God exists or not.

Most of them will always think that they are hallucinating if they saw
God face to face.

Robibnikoff

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Feb 25, 2005, 11:56:39 PM2/25/05
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"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109392022.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Prove it.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557


Al Klein

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Feb 26, 2005, 12:05:19 AM2/26/05
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On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 01:32:04 GMT, Douglas Berry
<pengu...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> said in alt.atheism:

>On 25 Feb 2005 15:26:42 -0800, noel...@iol.ie (Noel) drained his
>beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed
>the following

>>Does God owe him something?

>An apology for the 2002 World Series would be nice.

An apology for the Mets is way overdue. Not *to* them - *for* them.


--
rukbat at verizon dot net

"I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world
insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it."
- Letter to S. Flesch, April 16, 1954; Einstein Archive 30-1154

DaveJr

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Feb 26, 2005, 2:07:35 AM2/26/05
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> >I agree with Noel, It would really make no difference if you could
> > prove to them if God exists or not.
> >
> > Most of them will always think that they are hallucinating if they saw
> > God face to face.

"face"? would that be the old man with a grey beard face?


Graham Kennedy

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Feb 26, 2005, 3:51:37 AM2/26/05
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Noel wrote:


God has an excellent reason to explain himself to us - he
wants something from us.

God, for reasons unexplained, apparently wants Humans to
worship him. Therefore he owes us something in return,
i.e. he needs to show us that there is something to worship
and preferably a reason why we should worship it.

--

Graham Kennedy

Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org

thomas p

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Feb 26, 2005, 4:22:01 AM2/26/05
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On 25 Feb 2005 15:26:42 -0800, noel...@iol.ie (Noel) wrote:

>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
>the wonders of this world.

God doesn't need to do anything. You are, however, making a claim.
Stop blaming god for your failure to back it up.


>Does God owe him something?
>On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
>known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
>anyway. It would be an impossible argument.

How do you know what would happen?

>Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.


According to the story the people who killed him were not atheists.

thomas p

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Feb 26, 2005, 4:22:04 AM2/26/05
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On 25 Feb 2005 20:27:02 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

It is amazing how many theists think they can read minds.


The great philosopher-criminologist

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Feb 26, 2005, 7:10:52 AM2/26/05
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Quote Thomas P:

It is amazing how many theists think they can read minds.

This is what some sociologists and psychologists say.

The great philosopher-criminologist

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Feb 26, 2005, 7:15:50 AM2/26/05
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Robibnikoff

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Feb 26, 2005, 7:32:21 AM2/26/05
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"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109419852.6...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> Quote Thomas P:
>
> It is amazing how many theists think they can read minds.
>
> This is what some sociologists and psychologists say.

Go tell someone who gives a damn.

Robibnikoff

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Feb 26, 2005, 7:33:12 AM2/26/05
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"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109420149....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

That babble from a fellow moron only confirms your own idiocy. How
pathetic.

The great philosopher-criminologist

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Feb 26, 2005, 8:31:45 AM2/26/05
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Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
theologists that say that most atheists will think they are

Budikka666

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Feb 26, 2005, 8:49:54 AM2/26/05
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Noel wrote:
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?

Yep! If he wants to save us, then it's incumbent upon him to do the
work, but what you see in the Bible is the very antithesis of this.
God doesn't do anything. Instead, he requires humans to do his dirty
work for him.

What this effectively proves is that there actually is no god - only
humans pretending there's a god.

It would be the easiest thing in the world for this god to save
everyone, but he doesn't. He doesn't. He doesn't exist.

> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway. It would be an impossible argument.

> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.

Where's your evidence that anything was done to this Jesus character?
Or that he even existed? There's no evidence whatsoever for such a
character outside of the derivative and error-prone NT.

Budikka

Budikka666

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Feb 26, 2005, 8:53:31 AM2/26/05
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For someone who bills themselves as a "great philosopher criminologist"
you appear to be appallingly gullible. A "great philosopher
criminologist" would rely on evidence and deduction, but you have no
evidence that there even is a god to begin with. Until you can
establish that, your entire basis is academic.

Budikka

The great philosopher-criminologist

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Feb 26, 2005, 8:54:30 AM2/26/05
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The works of Flavious Josephus mention Jesus, Buddika. That is outside
of the NT.

Jez

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Feb 26, 2005, 9:07:52 AM2/26/05
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Noel wrote:
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world.

What wonders ? I have to eat dead things to survive....what's so fucking
great about that ?


>Does God owe him something?

Who ?

> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.

Well, shot.

>It would be an impossible argument.
> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.

Yeah, sure he did. <Cough>
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn


NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA

Robibnikoff

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Feb 26, 2005, 9:17:46 AM2/26/05
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"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
> theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
> hallucinating if they saw God face to face.

And I should give a shit because....................................?

BTW, please name them all and provide their credentials. I see no reason to
take your word for anything.

Liz

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Feb 26, 2005, 9:23:44 AM2/26/05
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On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
<1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:


Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
face to face with GodŽ. Names, dates, reaction, and proof of GodŽ's
actual face time would suffice.


Liz #658 BAAWA

Liz, you like most people do not want to have faith in
things which have no basis in reality. -- josalt

The great philosopher-criminologist

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Feb 26, 2005, 9:41:48 AM2/26/05
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Liz wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
> <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
> <1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
> >theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
> >hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
>
>
> Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
> face to face with God®. Names, dates, reaction, and proof of
God®'s

> actual face time would suffice.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25486 (A One-Time Atheist
Found God)

www.ex-atheist.com

http://www.apostolicfaith.org/foryou/articles/smith-w.asp (An Atheist
Found God)

A quote from this article;

"Many years ago while trimming lumber in a sawmill, God spoke to my
heart, revealing Himself to me. He said, "The only true happiness is
in the Lord." I knew then that there was a living God. No one could
talk that out of me. It was an actual experience! Anyone who has ever
been around a sawmill and has heard the screech of those saws, the
rattle and the roar, knows one can hardly hear a human voice. There was
not a man within thirty feet of me, but God spoke to me above the
scream of that machinery. That moment I knew there was a living God and
I have never doubted it from that day until this.

The men I worked with knew that I was a drunkard and an atheist. The
minute Jesus spoke to my heart, I walked over to a fellow worker I had
known for years, a hardened criminal, a fellow who was worse than I
was. I said, "There is a God!" He did not laugh. He seemed to
realize something really had happened to me."

A book from Ferguson, G. A. - How a Modern Atheist Found God

Robibnikoff

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Feb 26, 2005, 10:12:52 AM2/26/05
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"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109428908.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Liz wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
> <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
> <1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
> >theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
> >hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
>
>
> Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming

> face to face with GodŽ. Names, dates, reaction, and proof of
GodŽ's


> actual face time would suffice.

www.ex-atheist.com

A quote from this article;

"Many years ago while trimming lumber in a sawmill, God spoke to my
heart, revealing Himself to me. He said, "The only true happiness is
in the Lord." I knew then that there was a living God. No one could
talk that out of me. It was an actual experience! Anyone who has ever
been around a sawmill and has heard the screech of those saws, the
rattle and the roar, knows one can hardly hear a human voice. There was
not a man within thirty feet of me, but God spoke to me above the
scream of that machinery. That moment I knew there was a living God and
I have never doubted it from that day until this.

The men I worked with knew that I was a drunkard and an atheist. The
minute Jesus spoke to my heart, I walked over to a fellow worker I had
known for years, a hardened criminal, a fellow who was worse than I
was. I said, "There is a God!" He did not laugh. He seemed to
realize something really had happened to me."

A book from Ferguson, G. A. - How a Modern Atheist Found God

Subjective experiences don't prove anything.

Noel

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Feb 26, 2005, 10:22:26 AM2/26/05
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Graham Kennedy <gra...@ditl.org> wrote in message news:<11094077...@nnrp-t71-02.news.clara.net>...

Therefore he owes us something in return,
> i.e. he needs to show us that there is something to worship
> and preferably a reason why we should worship it.


dream on.

Bill

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Feb 26, 2005, 12:03:27 PM2/26/05
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Which ones? Care to provide any names.

Atheists are rationalists. They base their beliefs on objective evidence
rather than myths, folklore and legend.

--
Bill


"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in

message news:1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...