The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Romans chapter 7, and we are studying verses 14 through 25. And we'll
read those in just a moment so that you'll have the flow of this
particular important text. A rather flippant sort of scoffing young man
asked a preacher in a mocking fashion, "You say that unsaved people
carry a great weight of sin. Frankly," he said, "I feel nothing. How
heavy is sin? Ten pounds? Fifty pounds? Eighty pounds? A hundred
pounds?" The preacher thought for a moment and gently replied, "If you
laid a 400 pound weight on a corpse, would it feel the load?" The young
man was quick to say, "Of course not, it's dead." To which the preacher
replied in driving home the point, "The spirit that knows not Christ is
equally dead. And though the load is great, he feels none of it."

But may I suggest to you that the believer is not so indifferent to the
weight of sin as the unbeliever is? But rather on the other hand, the
believer is hyper sensitive to sin. And having come to Jesus Christ,
his senses are awakened to the reality of sin. Such awakening began in
his very salvation and is not lessened since he has been redeemed, but
rather continues to become intense as he grows and matures.

Such sensitivity prompted a saint as great as Chrysostom to say, "I fear
nothing but sin." An unbeliever, when confronted of the message of
salvation by grace, free in Christ, said, "If I believe that doctrine,
that salvation was free and gracious and it was only a matter of faith,
if I could be sure that I could be so easily converted, I would believe
and then take my fill of sin." To which the gospel messenger replied,
"How much sin do you think it would take to fill a true Christian to
satisfaction?" The answer to that is just a little bit more than we can
stand.


--
God exists, uncreated and transcendental to space and time.
.

[John Ritson]

In article <sf5jbm$1jra$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes

Sign up to Christianity, hand over your money, and in return get "just a
little more sin than we can stand".
So much for all the pages of waffle about being "dead to sin", or being
in a "different field" to where sin is, or having a "new nature" that
will leave all the sin behind.

--
John Ritson

[Michael Christ]

Doesn't Bob Duncan realise that it is his indwelling sinful nature in
him that refuses to face the truth. Or does he not think he is a sinner
at all??

Bob Duncan wrote:
> The Believer and Indwelling Sin,

There is no indwelling sin in a true believer, he is a new creature.

These people want to be able to justify themselves in their sinfulness.

There is none.







Michael Christ

Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory".

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything".

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are".

"What makes the bible the truth?" "The resonance of God".

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination".

"Compromise will condemn you".

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus".

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all".

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life".

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything".

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying 'prove it' [as a foundation] is merely a straw man, to a straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Coming to Jesus Christ brings the sense of sin to the heart and mind.
And I believe that a true Christian feels that weight of sin in a way
that an unbeliever does not feel at all. And in case you wonder whether,
in fact, they are dead to that weight, remind yourselves of Ephesians
2:1, "And you has He made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins."

But a true Christian feels sensitive to sin, hates the evil that is in
him, seeks not to fill up his life with sin under grace, but rather
seeks to empty his life of sin, so distasteful to him is it.

Now when you look at the New Testament, of course the believer becomes
more sensitized to that. We find, for example, in Ephesians 4:30 that
when we sin the Holy Spirit is grieved. And we seek not to grieve the
Holy Spirit. In 1 Corinthians 9:27, we find that when we are involved in
sin, our life becomes powerless. That's what made Paul say that I have
this tremendous fear that in preaching to others I myself would become a
castaway, or useless.

And even the Psalmist said, "Praise is fitting for the upright."
Consequently when in sin, we find that we are even unacceptable in our
praise to God. And none of us wishes to have unacceptable praise.
Jeremiah added in Jeremiah 5:25 these very poignant words. "Your sins
have withheld good things from you." And no Christian would choose to
have the blessing of God withheld, if really given the opportunity and
the concentration to think about it.

[John Locke]

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 07:00:06 -0400, Bob Duncan <bob7d...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>by John MacArthur
>

<plonk the pointless religious word salad>


--and yet another evil quote from the heinous Book of Babble---------

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their
fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not
seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether
small or great, whether man or woman. Chronicles 15
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Duncan]

On 8/15/2021 6:48 PM, John Locke wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 07:00:06 -0400, Bob Duncan
> <bob7d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2 by John MacArthur
>>
> <plonk the pointless religious word salad>

You wouldn't be able to understand it anyway. It's not for you.

"They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of
God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of
heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to
sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity."
[Ephesians 4:18-19]

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

And further, the Psalmist in Psalm 51, when confronted with his own sin
asked God to restore to him the - what? - the joy of his salvation. In
Hebrews chapter 12 we find that when a believer sins, he is chastened by
God. In 1 Corinthians 3 we find that when a believer sins, he is
hindered in his spiritual growth so that the apostle says, "I can't feed
you what I'd like to feed you because you're so fleshly." In 2 Timothy
2:21, Paul says we must have pure lives in order to be vessels fit for
the Master's use. And so, when sin is there in our lives, it renders our
service limited and useless. In 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 we find that sin
in the life of a believer pollutes the fellowship. And that's why the
apostle says, "Before you come to the Lord's table, make sure you
cleanse your own heart before God."

We also find that in 1 Corinthians 11:30, and in 1 John 5:16, and I
think also in James chapter 1, the indication is made there that a
believer in sin is in danger of losing his life. To say nothing of the
fact, the supreme fact of all facts that 1 Corinthians 6 says, "Don't
you know that your body is the temple of God?" In other words, if you
bring your body into contact with sin, you are dishonoring God.

Which of us chooses to grieve the Holy Spirit? Which of us deep down in
our hearts as believers really wants to grieve the Holy Spirit? Or wants
to have unanswered prayer? Or desires to have a powerless life? Or wants
to be offering inappropriate praise? Which of us, when really looking
deep within ourselves as redeemed people, chooses to have the blessing
of God withheld, joy removed, chastening in their place, growth
hindered, service limited, fellowship polluted, and our life in danger?
Which of us as believers would long to dishonor God?

Quite the contrary, as the Psalmist said in Psalm 42:1, "As the hart - "
or the deer " - pants after the water brooks, so pants my soul after
Thee, O God."

--
God exists, uncreated and transcendental to space and time.

.

[John Ritson]

In article <sfbv8m$jf7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

>The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>by John MacArthur
>
>Coming to Jesus Christ brings the sense of sin to the heart and mind.
>And I believe that a true Christian feels that weight of sin in a way
>that an unbeliever does not feel at all. And in case you wonder whether,
>in fact, they are dead to that weight, remind yourselves of Ephesians
>2:1, "And you has He made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins."
>
>But a true Christian feels sensitive to sin, hates the evil that is in
>him, seeks not to fill up his life with sin under grace, but rather
>seeks to empty his life of sin, so distasteful to him is it.

Great, sign up and feel guilty.

>
>Now when you look at the New Testament, of course the believer becomes
>more sensitized to that. We find, for example, in Ephesians 4:30 that
>when we sin the Holy Spirit is grieved. And we seek not to grieve the
>Holy Spirit. In 1 Corinthians 9:27, we find that when we are involved in
>sin, our life becomes powerless.

But MacArthur had earlier said that you could never be free from sin
while you were still alive.
So sign up and become "powerless".

>That's what made Paul say that I have
>this tremendous fear that in preaching to others I myself would become a
>castaway, or useless.
>
>And even the Psalmist said, "Praise is fitting for the upright."
>Consequently when in sin, we find that we are even unacceptable in our
>praise to God. And none of us wishes to have unacceptable praise.
>Jeremiah added in Jeremiah 5:25 these very poignant words. "Your sins
>have withheld good things from you." And no Christian would choose to
>have the blessing of God withheld, if really given the opportunity and
>the concentration to think about it.

So sign up and have your imaginary deity regard your prayers as
"unacceptable praise".

--
John Ritson

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[John Ritson]

In article <sfdr1f$1b05$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

>The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>by John MacArthur
>
>And further, the Psalmist in Psalm 51, when confronted with his own sin
>asked God to restore to him the - what? - the joy of his salvation. In
>Hebrews chapter 12 we find that when a believer sins, he is chastened by
>God. In 1 Corinthians 3 we find that when a believer sins, he is
>hindered in his spiritual growth so that the apostle says, "I can't feed
>you what I'd like to feed you because you're so fleshly." In 2 Timothy
>2:21, Paul says we must have pure lives in order to be vessels fit for
>the Master's use. And so, when sin is there in our lives, it renders our
>service limited and useless. In 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 we find that sin
>in the life of a believer pollutes the fellowship. And that's why the
>apostle says, "Before you come to the Lord's table, make sure you
>cleanse your own heart before God."
>
>We also find that in 1 Corinthians 11:30, and in 1 John 5:16, and I
>think also in James chapter 1, the indication is made there that a
>believer in sin is in danger of losing his life. To say nothing of the
>fact, the supreme fact of all facts that 1 Corinthians 6 says, "Don't
>you know that your body is the temple of God?" In other words, if you
>bring your body into contact with sin, you are dishonoring God.

But MacArthur had earlier said that you has sin as long as you had a
body.
So you are automatically "dishonouring God".

>
>Which of us chooses to grieve the Holy Spirit? Which of us deep down in
>our hearts as believers really wants to grieve the Holy Spirit? Or wants
>to have unanswered prayer? Or desires to have a powerless life? Or wants
>to be offering inappropriate praise? Which of us, when really looking
>deep within ourselves as redeemed people, chooses to have the blessing
>of God withheld, joy removed, chastening in their place, growth
>hindered, service limited, fellowship polluted, and our life in danger?
>Which of us as believers would long to dishonor God?

"chooses"?. According to MacArthur, it is automatic as long as you have
a body.

>
>Quite the contrary, as the Psalmist said in Psalm 42:1, "As the hart - "
>or the deer " - pants after the water brooks, so pants my soul after
>Thee, O God."

And according to MacArthur, God will regard this as "unacceptable

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

I believe that when an individual comes to Jesus Christ, there is
planted within that individual a new creation, a new nature, a new
essence, a new self, a new man. And that the great heartbeat, and
passion, and cry of that new creation is a longing for the things of
God. And over against that, a resentment and a hatred of sin. And that
indeed is the spirit of the Apostle Paul as he writes in our text, look
at it, beginning at verse 14.

"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am fleshy, sold under sin.
For that which I do I understand not: for what I would, that do I not;
but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I
consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do
it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my
flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to
perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do
not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would
not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

"I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another
law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me
into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man
that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God
through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the
law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Now there's a man in conflict in that text, a man in serious conflict.
There's a man in that text who loathes sin, who hates sin, who despises
sin, and who loves righteousness, and who longs for the law of God. This
cannot be an unredeemed man, for according to our Lord in John chapter
3, the unredeemed love darkness and hate righteousness. This is a man
who loves righteousness and hates sin.

[John Ritson]

In article <sfg33i$19to$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

>The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>by John MacArthur
>
>I believe that when an individual comes to Jesus Christ, there is
>planted within that individual a new creation, a new nature, a new
>essence, a new self, a new man. And that the great heartbeat, and
>passion, and cry of that new creation is a longing for the things of
>God. And over against that, a resentment and a hatred of sin. And that
>indeed is the spirit of the Apostle Paul as he writes in our text, look
>at it, beginning at verse 14.

"a new creation, a new nature, a new essence, a new self, a new man."

and yet with nothing tangible to distinguish it from the old guy.

>
>"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am fleshy, sold under sin.
>For that which I do I understand not: for what I would, that do I not;
>but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I
>consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do
>it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my
>flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to
>perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do
>not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would
>not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

That sounds a plausible excuse. Perhaps the sin can be sent to jail, and
the rest of you can stroll off.

>
>"I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
>For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another
>law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me
>into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man
>that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God
>through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the
>law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

John MacArthur had earlier insisted that you could not be free from sin
until you are dead.

>Now there's a man in conflict in that text, a man in serious conflict.
>There's a man in that text who loathes sin, who hates sin, who despises
>sin, and who loves righteousness, and who longs for the law of God. This
>cannot be an unredeemed man, for according to our Lord in John chapter
>3, the unredeemed love darkness and hate righteousness. This is a man
>who loves righteousness and hates sin.

And commits sin because he is not dead yet.

[Michael Christ]

You are a sinner, Dungs, and you are still trying to punch out that you
are righteous.

Theology never saved anyone.

A sinner is not righteous.

Just like there is no such thing as a pregnant non-pregnant woman.







Michael Christ

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

In Psalm 119 - and I'm going to be referring back to that Psalm so you
might want to mark it somewhere in your Bible. We're going to go back to
it a few times. But in Psalm 119:104, we have a very similar statement
in one simple verse. And here the Psalmist wonderfully reflecting on the
Word of God says, "Through Your precepts I get understanding: therefore
I hate every false way."

There is the essence of the redeemed man who longs for the understanding
of the Word of God, who longs for the fulfillment of the Word of God,
and who hates every false way. Thomas Watson, the wonderful man of God
of the Puritan era, in his very significant book called The Body of
Divinity, said this. "A sign of sanctification is an antipathy against
sin. A hypocrite may leave sin, yet love it as a serpent sheds its coat,
but keeps its sting. But a sanctified person can say he not only leaves
sin, he loathes it. God has changed thy nature and made thee as a king's
daughter, all glorious within. He has put on thee the breastplate of
holiness, which though it may be shot at can never be shot through."

So, there is a struggle. And I believe the struggle is presented to us
here n Romans chapter 7, a classic passage describing the graphic
poignant picture of the pain of indwelling sin in the life of a Christian.

Now you need to remember that in the 7th chapter of Romans, Paul is
basically talking about the place of the law. And he is trying to
demonstrate that because he preaches salvation by grace through faith
does not mean that he sees no place for the law. That is not to say to
Jews who esteem the law that he does not esteem it, he is simply giving
it its proper function, and its proper function is not to save people,
or to sanctify people, but to convict them of sin and show them, as
verse 13 indicates, the exceeding sinfulness of sin. And he is pointing
out that even as a believer, the law continues to have the function of
demonstrating to the Christian the exceeding sinfulness of sin. When he
sees the law of God, which his heart longs to fulfill, and in comparison
sees the sin in his life, he loves the law and loathes the sin.

[John Ritson]

In article <sfiugn$1soh$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

>The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>by John MacArthur
>
>In Psalm 119 - and I'm going to be referring back to that Psalm so you
>might want to mark it somewhere in your Bible. We're going to go back to
>it a few times. But in Psalm 119:104, we have a very similar statement
>in one simple verse. And here the Psalmist wonderfully reflecting on the
>Word of God says, "Through Your precepts I get understanding: therefore
>I hate every false way."
>
>There is the essence of the redeemed man who longs for the understanding
>of the Word of God, who longs for the fulfillment of the Word of God,
>and who hates every false way. Thomas Watson, the wonderful man of God
>of the Puritan era, in his very significant book called The Body of
>Divinity, said this. "A sign of sanctification is an antipathy against
>sin. A hypocrite may leave sin, yet love it as a serpent sheds its coat,
>but keeps its sting. But a sanctified person can say he not only leaves
>sin, he loathes it. God has changed thy nature and made thee as a king's
>daughter, all glorious within. He has put on thee the breastplate of
>holiness, which though it may be shot at can never be shot through."

But John MacArthur has repeatedly stated that people can only be free
from sin when their body is dead. "The breastplate of holiness" is just
another dumb metaphor pretending that an empty claim is really a
miraculous transformation.

>
>So, there is a struggle. And I believe the struggle is presented to us
>here n Romans chapter 7, a classic passage describing the graphic
>poignant picture of the pain of indwelling sin in the life of a Christian.
>
>Now you need to remember that in the 7th chapter of Romans, Paul is
>basically talking about the place of the law. And he is trying to
>demonstrate that because he preaches salvation by grace through faith
>does not mean that he sees no place for the law. That is not to say to
>Jews who esteem the law that he does not esteem it, he is simply giving
>it its proper function, and its proper function is not to save people,
>or to sanctify people, but to convict them of sin and show them, as
>verse 13 indicates, the exceeding sinfulness of sin. And he is pointing
>out that even as a believer, the law continues to have the function of
>demonstrating to the Christian the exceeding sinfulness of sin. When he
>sees the law of God, which his heart longs to fulfill, and in comparison
>sees the sin in his life, he loves the law and loathes the sin.

"the exceeding sinfulness of sin"! What drivel.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Now in the midst of this conflict we find the pouring out of the heart
of the Apostle Paul in the first person, I, I, I, me, me, me. This is
his testimony and ours, as well. And the testimony of his own struggle
spiritually with indwelling sin is given in three laments. It's a very
sad passage. It's a very remorseful passage. It's a very poignant
passage, because it isn't often that we get this kind of deep insight
into the apostle Paul's struggle. And it isn't often that he repeats it
so many times. In fact, as I read that, you probably noted the
repetition of the text. There are three laments, and they all three
basically say the same thing. He laments his situation. He weeps over
it. He sorrows over it. His heart is grieved over it. He's broken over it.

And each lament has three parts: The condition in which he's finding
himself, the proof of that condition, and the source of that condition.
Look at the first lament by way of review. We went into it last week.
Verses 14-17. The condition is in verse 14. "We know the law is
spiritual: but I am fleshy, sold under sin." The law is spiritual. That
is, it proceeds from the Holy Spirit. It is energized by the mind, and
the heart, and the will of God. It is holy, just and good, says verse
12. But I am, in contrast, unspiritual. The law is spiritual, and I'm
unspiritual.

Now you say, "Can a Christian say that?" Yes, in a perspective. That is
one perception that we rightly should have of our own lives. We are not
all that we should be, right? The law of God is spiritual but we are
fleshly, we're unspiritual. We are carnal. And here he's looking at the
battle. He's looking at his humanness. He's not talking about all that
is renewed in him. He's talking about what is not renewed in him. His
humanness is still there and it stares him right in the face. He finds
himself sold under sin. He says in verse 23, he is "brought into
captivity to the law of sin which is operating in his members." He finds
himself ill being victimized by sin, even though he's redeemed. This is
his condition, condition of struggle.

In fact, in Philippians 3:12, Paul puts it this way, "Not as though I
had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after,
if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ
Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: - " in other
words, I haven't got it yet " - but this one thing I do, forgetting the
things which are behind, and reaching forth unto the things which are
before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God
in Christ Jesus."

[John Ritson]

In article <sflj3m$utg$2...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

John MacArthur had earlier insisted that you could only be free from sin
when your body is dead.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

What he's saying is, "I know I haven't gotten there yet." And that's all
you have here in Romans 7 is a
recognition of what he isn't. It's a perspective. It's not all that
could be said about him, but it is
something that could be said about him. It isn't all that could be said
about me to say I am unspiritual,
but it is true about me to say I am unspiritual. I have not yet become
fully what I will become, right? It is
a non-technical view. It is a perspective. It is the same perspective
that made Paul say "I am chief of
sinners," 1 Timothy 1:15.

And what do you say gives that perspective? Well, listen very carefully.
It is an understanding of the pure,
holy, just, good law of God. And when you see yourself against that law,
you are very much aware of how
sinful you are. Now when you see a Christian, calls himself a Christian
- or herself - and they appear to be
very content with where they are spiritually, and they want to make sure
you know how really holy they
are, and how pious they are, that is not to indicate to you that indeed
they are holy, but rather indeed
they don't understand the Word of God. That is evidence not of their
holiness, but an evidence of their
ignorance of God's holy law. For the better we understand the infinite
perfection of God's holy law, the
better we will understand our own imperfection, true? And so I submit to
you that what we have in
Romans chapter 7 is not only the testimony of a Christian, but a very
mature one, and a very insightful
one, and a very spiritually-minded one.

After giving us the condition in verse 14, he gives us the proof in
verse 15. Here's the proof that he's still
not all that he should be, that he's unspiritual. "For that which I do,
I understand not - " or I know not, or
I don't love, or I don't choose to do " - for what I would, that do I
not; but what I hate, that I do." Now
that's the proof. The proof that I'm still fleshy is that I'm frustrated
because I see the infinite glory of
God's law, I see the magnificent holiness of His standard, and I can't
live up to that standard. And I'm
not satisfied with how far along I am, I'm only dissatisfied with how
far along I'm not.

That is a very mature perspective. It's a very immature thing to think
you've really arrived spiritually.
The apostle Paul says, "I haven't obtained. I haven't apprehended that.
But I - " what? " - press toward
the mark. I see the goal and I'm moving. I'm not there."

That's the humility that comes from right spiritual perception. Instead
of congratulating ourselves about
how holy we are, if we really understand God's law, we're going to see
ourselves as falling far short. And
that's where he is. And that's why this, again, takes us back to the
brokenness, and the humility, and the
contrition that marks the true follower of the Savior.

[John Ritson]

In article <sfnnl4$13le$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

So after pages of drivel about being "dead to sin" and exhibiting a "new
nature", now John MacArthur is insisting that "the true follower" is
"falling far short", and should exhibit "brokenness".

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Then he talks about the source. Because if you say, "Well, Paul, you're
saved. You're redeemed. I mean, where is this coming from?" Verses 16
and 17 give us the answer. "If then I do that which I would not, I
consent unto the law that it is good." Nothing wrong with the law.
Because I can't keep it doesn't mean it's wrong. What's your problem,
Paul? "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me."

Now my condition is I'm in a struggle. The proof of it is that I can't
always do what I want, and do sometimes what I really don't want in my
deepest self. And the source of it all is sin that is in me. And now the
"I" and the "me" in verse 17 become technical. He says "I" in verse 14,
very generally. "I'm unspiritual." But now he makes sure we understand
what he means in verse 17. "Now then it is no more I," and the "no
more," you remember we talked about that, de ouketi, no more, no more
since when? Since salvation. Since I've been saved, no longer is it I,
the real me, the renewed me, the recreated me, that does it but it is -
what? - it's sin that dwells in me. And we went into that in some
detail. The "I" then becomes a technical term.

Now what is the conflict, then? The conflict in the life of a believer
is a conflict between a new creation which is holy, which is created for
eternity, which is the eternal seed, which cannot sin, and that is in
you, that is the real you, that is the basic you, the recreated you. The
conflict is between that redeemed you and your unredeemed mortality,
your unredeemed humanity, which is still present. And that's where his
struggle lies. And that's his lament.

And I believe that every child of God who really is walking in obedience
with the mind of the Savior laments the reality of his sin. I see the
believer in 1 John 1:8-10, and he will not deny his sin, he will - what?
- confess his sin. I hear him in Psalm 38:18 saying, "For I will declare
my iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin." I hear him in Psalm 97:10. "Ye
who love the Lord hate evil." I think the truly regenerated person hates
sin and faces the fact that even though he's been recreated and there's
a new nature there, that new nature is still encased, as it were, in
humanness, and therein lies the struggle.

[John Ritson]

In article <sfumm8$1h7v$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

>The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>by John MacArthur
>
>Then he talks about the source. Because if you say, "Well, Paul, you're
>saved. You're redeemed. I mean, where is this coming from?" Verses 16
>and 17 give us the answer. "If then I do that which I would not, I
>consent unto the law that it is good." Nothing wrong with the law.
>Because I can't keep it doesn't mean it's wrong. What's your problem,
>Paul? "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me."
>
>Now my condition is I'm in a struggle. The proof of it is that I can't
>always do what I want, and do sometimes what I really don't want in my
>deepest self. And the source of it all is sin that is in me. And now the
>"I" and the "me" in verse 17 become technical. He says "I" in verse 14,
>very generally. "I'm unspiritual." But now he makes sure we understand
>what he means in verse 17. "Now then it is no more I," and the "no
>more," you remember we talked about that, de ouketi, no more, no more
>since when? Since salvation. Since I've been saved, no longer is it I,
>the real me, the renewed me, the recreated me, that does it but it is -
>what? - it's sin that dwells in me. And we went into that in some
>detail. The "I" then becomes a technical term.
>

So after all the waffle about being "dead to sin" and sin being "in the
next field", when it comes to instilling fear and guilt, we switch to
"sin that swells in me", which no "new nature" can remedy,

>Now what is the conflict, then? The conflict in the life of a believer
>is a conflict between a new creation which is holy, which is created for
>eternity, which is the eternal seed, which cannot sin, and that is in
>you, that is the real you, that is the basic you, the recreated you. The
>conflict is between that redeemed you and your unredeemed mortality,
>your unredeemed humanity, which is still present. And that's where his
>struggle lies. And that's his lament.
>
>And I believe that every child of God who really is walking in obedience
>with the mind of the Savior laments the reality of his sin. I see the
>believer in 1 John 1:8-10, and he will not deny his sin, he will - what?
>- confess his sin. I hear him in Psalm 38:18 saying, "For I will declare
>my iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin." I hear him in Psalm 97:10. "Ye
>who love the Lord hate evil." I think the truly regenerated person hates
>sin and faces the fact that even though he's been recreated and there's
>a new nature there, that new nature is still encased, as it were, in
>humanness, and therein lies the struggle.

So the magical "new nature" has switched from being that which doesn't
involve humanness, to being "encased" in humanness.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

[John Ritson]

In article <sg15uf$13pt$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

So there's an "eternal seed, which cannot sin".
Big deal. Your left little toe probably cannot sin either.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

So even though we're redeemed, sin hangs on in our flesh, our mortality,
our unredeemed humanity, and disallows us from seeing fulfillment of the
deep heart longing that pants after the perfection of God's law. And
sometimes this doesn't only show up before you sin, but it shows up
afterward, and it shows up in your guilt, and your sense of sorrow, and
your sense of contrition.

Let's look at the second lament, and it's just like the first. Verse 18.
The pattern here is identical. Here comes the condition. "For I know
that in me - " now what me are you talking about? Just the general you,
the whole you, the new you, the new creation? No, no. "In me." That is
which part of me? My what? "My flesh." And he gets technical. He doesn't
want us to lose the distinction that he just made in verse 17 about that
it's not really him, it's the sin that dwells in him.

[John Ritson]

In article <sg3od4$1sja$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

>The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>by John MacArthur
>
>So even though we're redeemed, sin hangs on in our flesh, our mortality,
>our unredeemed humanity, and disallows us from seeing fulfillment of the
>deep heart longing that pants after the perfection of God's law. And
>sometimes this doesn't only show up before you sin, but it shows up
>afterward, and it shows up in your guilt, and your sense of sorrow, and
>your sense of contrition.

So being "redeemed" is another of those imaginary conditions, whose only
apparent signs are feelings of guilt and sorrow and contrition.

>
>Let's look at the second lament, and it's just like the first. Verse 18.
>The pattern here is identical. Here comes the condition. "For I know
>that in me - " now what me are you talking about? Just the general you,
>the whole you, the new you, the new creation? No, no. "In me." That is
>which part of me? My what? "My flesh." And he gets technical. He doesn't
>want us to lose the distinction that he just made in verse 17 about that
>it's not really him, it's the sin that dwells in him.
>

--

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

And then in verse 18 he says, "The sin dwells in my flesh." So it's not
really me, not the new me, not the recreated me, not the divine,
incorruptible nature planted in me, not the eternal seed which cannot
sin. It's not that me, it's, it's my flesh. So "that in me (that is, in
my flesh,) dwells no good thing."

I don't see any good thing in my unredeemed humanity. And so he says,
"In me," but the he particularizes which part, "that is in my flesh."
And therein, I believe, he locates in terms the seat of sin. Sin is
seated in the flesh. And we have said before, and say again, that that
flesh is our humanness. It isn't necessarily in and of itself evil, but
it's where sin finds its base of operation.

[John Ritson]

In article <sg78tc$1tqb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

So this magic "recreated me" "cannot sin" but is useless for stopping
sin, until the body is dead.

[Cloud Hobbit]

When you explain it that way, it all seems kinda stupid


There are no gods unless we create them.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

I might just put it this way. Paul limits the area of corruption in the
believer to the flesh, to the unredeemed mortality. That is why,
beloved, when you die and leave this body, no change needs to be made
for you to enter into eternal glory, because all you need to be fitted
for that is not the addition of something but the subtraction. And so he
limits the area of sin to the fallenness of his unredeemed mortality.

Now would you notice he says "that is, in my flesh." He is no longer in
the flesh, as we'll find out in chapter 8:5-8, but the flesh is -- what?
- in him, still there. And, by the way, unsaved people are only flesh,
flesh, flesh, flesh, flesh, flesh, and nothing else.

[John Ritson]

In article <sg9cip$ccb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

So John MacArthur earlier had the "saved" as zombies operated by God,
and now has the "unsaved" as zombies operated by nobody.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Now the proof of this condition is given in verse 18 again. And this is
a sad song. And that's why he laments it over and over again. Look at
verse 18. Here's the proof, middle of the verse, "For - " in other
words, here's how I'm going to demonstrate it " - to will is present
with me." In other words, there's something in me that wants to do
what's right. "But how to fully perform that which is good I find not."

Now please don't misunderstand him here. He's not saying, "I can't
figure out how to do anything right any time," because that isn't true.
But what he's saying is, "I can't do it to the extent that my heart
longs to do it." You understand? "I can't perform it in the way that I
want to perform it."

[John Ritson]

In article <sgcd2j$rjf$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

More guilt-tripping of the poor deluded converts.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

If you look at your own Christian life and you see the flow of growth, I
think if you sit down and are honest about it, even though you can see
growth in your Christian life, you're going to have a greater hatred for
your sin now than you did long ago when you were way down here on the
growth line, and you really didn't understand how serious sin was, and
you hadn't had such a vast comprehension of the majesty and the holiness
of God, and the infinite purity of His holy Word. You see, as that
escalates, so does your sensitivity to sin. And though while we've
taught and we affirm again that spiritual growth involves the decreasing
frequency of sin, along with the decreasing frequency of sin is a
heightened sensitivity to it. And that is Paul's experience. The will is
present with me, the real me down inside wants to do what God wants, but
I can't perform the thing the way I want to.

And then verse 19, he says similarly as he said in verse 16, "For the

good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do."

I want it. I just can't do it.

[John Ritson]

`In article <sgjp3c$gj9$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

More guilt-tripping for the unfortunate convert. "spiritual growth"
involves "heightened sensitivity" to sin.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Then he comes to the source again in verse 20. The condition, the proof,
and the source. "Now, if I do the things I don't want to do, it is no
more I that do it but - " what? " - sin that dwells in me." Exactly what
he said in verse 17. It's no more I. What do you mean "no more"? There's
that "no more" again. No more since when? Since what? Salvation. Before
salvation - you know, unsaved people can't be in this chapter because
there's "no more" for them. There's no "no more." There never was a
change. There's never been a time that things have been different. What
would "no more" mean in an unbeliever? There isn't any "no more." It's
always been the same.

But since he's redeemed, there is a "no more." And since that
redemption, it is no more that recreated I, that real self that's doing
these things, but it is sin that dwells there. And so we fight, says
Paul, and we lose. And the losses seem so much more overwhelming because
of the perfection of God's holy law.

[John Ritson]

In article <sgopql$i23$2...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

Yet another imaginary problem caused by pursuit of an imaginary deity.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

So, if I can just reach back and add a little addition to your list that
you may have been accumulating through Romans 5, 6, and 7, add this
to your list of results of justification by faith. The first one we saw in
chapter 5 was security. The second we saw in chapter 6 was holiness.
And then in chapter 7 we saw freedom, fruitfulness, and service. And a
fourth one in this chapter, sensitivity to sin. That is a result of
justification. Paul's still talking about the doctrine of justification by
grace through faith, and one of its results is a heightened sensitivity to
sin.

Now at this point you might figure Paul's going to give up. And he made
the point, right? He's sort of like me, he labors the point. But let's look
at the third lament. And it's just like the rest. But this is one way to get
the point across, isn't it, of how sorrowful he is so that he goes over it
and over it and over it. And here come the same three things.

[John Ritson]

In article <sgu9dv$17c4$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

It's not just that MacArthur is labouring the point, he has so far
laboured several contradictory points.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

First the condition, verse 21. "I find then a law, that, when I would do
good, evil is present with me." Now here we come back to the same
condition. He says "I find a law." And by that he means a principle.
He's using the word "law." It's a literary device again, so he stays
with that term. There's the law of God. And then I see another law, he
says. Another principle, another standard that makes demands on me,
another inflexible law that drives me to conformity.

"I see another law in me - " another principle operating, another source
of commands, another standard, " - that when I would do good, evil is
present with me." Literally it says "evil lies close at hand." It's
right there. It's battling every good thought, every good intention,
every good motive, every good word, every good deed, every good act. It
isn't way away. It isn't far off. It has never been eradicated, as some
theologians would tell us, that you get to the point where your sin
nature is eradicated. And then they say from then on you don't sin, you
just make mistakes. Paul says, "It's right there. It's right at hand. It
isn't the real me but, boy, it isn't far away." And the condition is one
of conflict again.

[John Ritson]

In article <sh6dim$2np$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

Those theologians would include MacArthur himself, who spent ages
droning on about being "dead to sin".

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

And then the proof, verse 22. How can you prove this again? Well, "I
delight in the law of God after the inward man." That's one side of the
conflict. In his inward man he delights in God's law. And again I would
draw you to Psalm 119, which I think is the best Old Testament parallel
to Romans 7. I don't know if anybody's ever said that before, but I'd
like to suggest that. Psalm 119:77. "Let Thy tender mercies come unto
me, that I may live: - " listen to this " - for Thy law is my delight."
And it may well have been that Paul had in mind that very passage. And
when he says "I delight in the law in the inward man," he's affirming
the heart of the Psalmist.

In Psalm 119:111 and others - but just look at 111. "Thy testimonies
have I taken as an heritage for ever: for they are the rejoicing of my
heart." Again, his delight. In verse 20 of that same Psalm, just one
other, "My soul breaks for the longing that it has unto Thine ordinances
at all times." Oh, what a tremendous verse. My heart actually breaks at
the longing that it has to Thine ordinances at all times.

[John Ritson]

In article <shbhl2$1mgf$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

Let Thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live" ?
and MacArthur is the loon who spent pages insisting that the only way to
be free from sin was to die.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

And what is the mark of the truly spiritual man in Psalm 1:2? "His
delight is in the - " what? " - Law of the Lord; and in His law doth he
meditate day and night." The regenerate man is marked by a love of the
Word of God, a love of the law of God, a delighting in that law after
the inward man.

Now I want you to notice that phrase "after the inward man." It really
says, "from the bottom of my heart." That's the meaning. From the
deepest part of me. And the deepest part of him, the bottom of his
heart, the inward man, the inner man, the real inside guy hungers, and
longs, and delights, and loves the law of God. The deepest joy, the
truest expression of personhood is to delight in God's law.

[John Ritson]

In article <shm62k$1h45$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

So they "delight in God's Law" and "hungers and delights and loves the
Law of God".
How righteous!
Note that nothing is said about actually obeying it.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

I believe the inner man or the inward man is that renewed, redeemed
nature. And even though - Paul says to the Corinthians, "even though the
outer man is perishing, the inward man is being - " what? " - renewed
day by day." 2 Corinthians 4:16. And we are "strengthened by might by
His Spirit," Ephesians 3:16, and the Spirit does His work "in the inner
man." That's the area of the new creation. That's the real self, the
center of redeemed personhood.

But then the proof of the conflict takes us to verse 23. "But I see
another law, another principle." And where is this one? Where is it? In
his what? "In - " what? " - in members." And what did we say the
"members" are? They are the human factors, the bodily factors, the
flesh, humanness, unredeemed mortality. And his use of terms is
completely consistent.

--
God exists, uncreated and transcendental to space and time.

.

[Michael Christ]

John MacArthur is a religious sinner, and a sinner is trying to serve
two masters.

Theology is going to make that a silk purse.





Michael Christ

--
Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory".

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything".

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are".

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God".

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination".

"Compromise will condemn you".

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus".

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all".

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life".

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything".

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying 'prove it' [as a foundation] is merely a straw man, to a straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

[Bob Duncan]

On 9/15/2021 6:33 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
> On 16/09/2021 8:30 am, Bob Duncan wrote:
>>
>> The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>> by John MacArthur
>>
>> I believe the inner man or the inward man is that renewed, redeemed
>> nature. And even though - Paul says to the Corinthians, "even though the
>> outer man is perishing, the inward man is being - " what? " - renewed
>> day by day." 2 Corinthians 4:16. And we are "strengthened by might by
>> His Spirit," Ephesians 3:16, and the Spirit does His work "in the inner
>> man." That's the area of the new creation. That's the real self, the
>> center of redeemed personhood.
>>
>> But then the proof of the conflict takes us to verse 23. "But I see
>> another law, another principle." And where is this one? Where is it? In
>> his what? "In - " what? " - in members." And what did we say the
>> "members" are? They are the human factors, the bodily factors, the
>> flesh, humanness, unredeemed mortality. And his use of terms is
>> completely consistent.
>>
>>
>
> John MacArthur is a religious sinner, and a sinner is trying to serve
> two masters.

You say that only because you do not know the Bible, or it's Author.


Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not
know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism
into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by
the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall
certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that
our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might
be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died
with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that
Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no
longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once
for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must
consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its
passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for
unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been
brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for
righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not
under law but under grace.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace?
By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as
obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin,
which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But
thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become
obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were
committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of
righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural
limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to
impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present
your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to
righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the
things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is
death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become
slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end,
eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is
eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Michael Christ]

Sorry, I don't do cowardly Calvinist selfish sinner snippers trying to
serve two masters, Bob.







Michael Christ

[Bob Duncan]

On 9/15/2021 6:44 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
> Sorry, I don't do cowardly Calvinist selfish sinner snippers trying to
> serve two masters, Bob.

[Michael Christ]

On 16/09/2021 8:45 am, Bob Duncan wrote:
> On 9/15/2021 6:44 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
>> Sorry, I don't do cowardly Calvinist selfish sinner snippers trying to
>> serve two masters, Bob.
>
>
> You say that only because you do not know the Bible, or it's Author.

Okay, you can serve God and sin then. You can have two masters.

Happy now?





Michael Christ

[Bob Duncan]

On 9/15/2021 6:54 PM, Michael Christ wrote:

> Okay, you can serve God and sin then.  You can have two masters.


You say that only because you do not know the Bible, or it's Author.

[Michael Christ]

I am not interested in your sinner theology faulty perception,
iniquitous 2 masters sinner.

Selfish self-worshiping snipping of what a man's says is not acceptable,
and it is cowardly and weak. This is your demonstrated Calvinist
religion, Bob Duncan.

John MacArthur is a religious sinner (as are you), and a sinner is

trying to serve two masters.

Theology is not going to make that a silk purse.





Michael Christ








Michael Christ

[Bob Duncan]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 9:45:44 PM UTC-4, Michael Christ wrote:
> I am not interested.


That's because you do not know the Bible, or it's Author.

God exists, uncreated and transcendental to space and time.

.

[Michael Christ]

Snip all you like, Calvinist, but it has been written.






Michael Christ

[Bob Duncan]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 10:14:17 PM UTC-4, Michael Christ wrote:
> Snip all you like.


You do not know the Bible, or it's Author.

[Michael Christ]

The bible doesn't protect sinners, Cowardly Snipper.





Michael Christ

[Bob Duncan]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 10:21:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Christ wrote:
> The bible doesn't protect sinners.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

So he sees in verse 23 another law, and this law isn't in his real self,
his deeper self, his inner man. It's in his outer man, isn't it? It's in
his members. It's in his humanness. And it is "warring against the law
of my mind." And the law of his mind is the same as that which is the
law of God, that which is the inner man. So the mind is equated with the
inner man. And he sees the war. And sometimes he confesses the law in my
members wins against the law of my mind, and thus "brings me into
captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." He makes a very
clear distinction.

Listen, beloved, if this were an unbeliever here, the law of his mind
would be just as rotten as the law of his members. For the carnal mind
is enmity against God. But his mind, which is his inner man, his truest
self, his redeemed creation, longs for the law of God, and is warring
against the law of his members which, of course, as we said, is his
humanness. And notice again, verse 23, sometimes the battle goes in
favor of the law of his members and - watch this - brings him into
captivity.

[John Ritson]

In article <sia7lq$1hb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

>The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>by John MacArthur
>
>So he sees in verse 23 another law, and this law isn't in his real self,
>his deeper self, his inner man.
> It's in his outer man, isn't it? It's in
>his members. It's in his humanness. And it is "warring against the law
>of my mind." And the law of his mind is the same as that which is the
>law of God, that which is the inner man. So the mind is equated with the
>inner man. And he sees the war. And sometimes he confesses the law in my
>members wins against the law of my mind, and thus "brings me into
>captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." He makes a very
>clear distinction.
>

So now are faced with another imaginary component of this house of cards
- the carnal mind.

>Listen, beloved, if this were an unbeliever here, the law of his mind
>would be just as rotten as the law of his members. For the carnal mind
>is enmity against God. But his mind, which is his inner man, his truest
>self, his redeemed creation, longs for the law of God, and is warring
>against the law of his members which, of course, as we said, is his
>humanness. And notice again, verse 23, sometimes the battle goes in
>favor of the law of his members and - watch this - brings him into
>captivity.
>
>

So "the inner mind" "longs for the law of god" but doesn't seem able to
do much about it.
If this mess was created, it points to a pretty incompetent creator.

[Michael Christ]

God is perfect, John, absolutely nothing wrong with Him. Bob Duncan, on
the other hand, he worships his sin and tries to get around it with his
fancy footwork theology.






Michael Christ

[Bob Duncan]

On 9/20/2021 8:21 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
> On 21/09/2021 1:46 am, John Ritson wrote:
>> In article <sia7lq$1hb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
>> <bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>>>
>>> The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
>>> by John MacArthur
>>>
>>> So he sees in verse 23 another law, and this law isn't in his real self,
>>> his deeper self, his inner man.
>>> It's in his outer man, isn't it? It's in
>>> his members. It's in his humanness. And it is "warring against the law
>>> of my mind." And the law of his mind is the same as that which is the
>>> law of God, that which is the inner man. So the mind is equated with the
>>> inner man. And he sees the war. And sometimes he confesses the law in my
>>> members wins against the law of my mind, and thus "brings me into
>>> captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." He makes a very
>>> clear distinction.
>>>
>>
>> So now are faced with another imaginary component of this house of cards
>> - the carnal mind.

Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael Christ") never proves anything he posts.

Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael Christ") is a liar.

Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael Christ") contradicts the Bible in so many
places, especially in Romans 6 & 7. Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael Christ")
is unable to comprehend the Word of God that is contained in Romans
6 & 7. Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael Christ") would be able to understand
Romans 6 & 7 if he were regenerated by the Holy Spirit. But that is
something that occurs only within those who have been chosen by God,
and who are of the "elect".

And, as can clearly be seen in his fatuous verbosity on display here
every day, that could not possibly include Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael
Christ").

He cannot name even one other person besides himself who holds the
same beliefs as he holds. I'm thankful that he is the only member of his
Satanic cult.

"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from
the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand
them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
[1 Corinthians 2:14]

[Michael Christ]

Bob Duncan, the snipping coward Calvinist.

Well, no surprise.






Michael Christ

[Bob Duncan]

Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael Christ") continues to contradict the Bible,

especially in Romans 6 & 7. Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael Christ") is

unable to comprehend the Word of God found in Romans 6 & 7.

Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael Christ") would be able to understand
Romans 6 & 7 if he were regenerated by the Holy Spirit. But that is
something that occurs only within those who have been chosen by God,
and who are of the "elect".

And, as can clearly be seen in his fatuous verbosity on display here
every day, that could not possibly include Steve Nash (a.k.a. "Michael
Christ").

He cannot even name one other person besides himself who holds the

same beliefs as he holds. I'm thankful that he is the only member of his
Satanic cult.

"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from
the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand
them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
[1 Corinthians 2:14]

==================

Romans 7
Or do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to those who know the
law--that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a
married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her
husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she
will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her
husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and
if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Likewise, my
brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so
that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead,
in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the
flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our
members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law,
having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way
of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. What then shall
we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the
law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to
covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, seizing an
opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of
covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive
apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I
died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and
through it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and
righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no
means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order
that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might
become sinful beyond measure. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I
am of the flesh, sold under sin. For I do not understand my own actions.
For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do
what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no
longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing
good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what
is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I
want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what
I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at
hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my
members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me
captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I
am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through
Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my
mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Listen. That would have to be a redeemed person because unredeemed
people can't be brought into captivity. Why? They're already there. But
when sin wins the victory in the spiritual struggle, then the believer
is brought into captivity to that sin and becomes captive to that sin.

And so, he demonstrates again the condition in verse 21, and then proves
it. The conflict between the law of his mind, which is his inner man,
longing for the things of God, and the law in his members. And keep in
mind that consistently through chapter 6 verses 12, 13, 19, chapter 7
verse 5 and all through this part of it, in all of those places he always
puts sin in the members. The bodily parts is what it refers to. That does
not just mean the flesh. That means the mind, the thoughts, the emotions,
all that goes with our humanness. And there is a war going on.

[Michael Christ]

On 22/09/2021 8:30 am, Bob Duncan wrote:
>
> The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2

There is no indwelling sin of unbelieving in the believer. Unless you
have a different definition of 'believer'?

What you are referring to are sinner religionists who want it both ways.







Michael Christ

> by John MacArthur
>
> Listen. That would have to be a redeemed person because unredeemed
> people can't be brought into captivity. Why? They're already there. But
> when sin wins the victory in the spiritual struggle, then the believer
> is brought into captivity to that sin and becomes captive to that sin.
>
> And so, he demonstrates again the condition in verse 21, and then proves
> it. The conflict between the law of his mind, which is his inner man,
> longing for the things of God, and the law in his members. And keep in
> mind that consistently through chapter 6 verses 12, 13, 19, chapter 7
> verse 5 and all through this part of it, in all of those places he always
> puts sin in the members. The bodily parts is what it refers to. That does
> not just mean the flesh. That means the mind, the thoughts, the emotions,
> all that goes with our humanness. And there is a war going on.
>
>


--

[Bob Duncan]

Steve Nash wrote:

> There is <snip>

You never prove anything you say. That's how I know you're lying.
And I'm convinced you're doing this just to get a little attention.
You love the attention. You can't get enough attention.
As long as I know you're wrong, that's really all that matters to me.

Have a nice day.
<smirk>

[Siri Cruise]

In article <sidpvu$gbk$3...@dont-email.me>,

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> There is no indwelling sin of unbelieving in the believer. Unless you
> have a different definition of 'believer'?

How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
never doubt their beliefs?

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Now I want you to go back to Psalm 119. And I don't know if you ever noticed this about Psalm 119, but I see the Psalmist having the same war. And I want to show you that. Let's go back to where we left off, Psalm 119:20, and I want to pick up that great verse and then I want to take you right through the Psalm, maybe ten or twelve verses. And they're very brief, but follow closely.

"My soul breaks - " that's a very, very intense language. "My soul breaks for the longing that it hath unto Thine ordinances at all times." Oh, that's a, you say, "That's a spiritual person with that kind of heartbreaking longing for the things of God." Then look at verse 70. It talks about the proud. "Their heart is as fat as grease." Pretty vivid. "But I delight in Your law."

[John Ritson]

In article <011135f7-0411-45d8...@googlegroups.com>, Bob
Duncan <bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

This would be the same law that was early described as useless as far as
salvation was concerned.

[Michael Christ]

On 23/09/2021 11:14 pm, Bob Duncan wrote:
>
> The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
> by John MacArthur
>
> Now I want you to go back to Psalm 119.

The Lord fulfilled a prophecy that was given to me in 1984 when I
confessed the Lord Jesus and asked Him into my life as my Lord and Saviour.

It took a little while...till 1987...but He fulfilled it.

Psa 119:99  I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy
testimonies are my meditation.





Michael Christ

PS Instead of ever learning the bible you need to pray that the Lord
makes you the Word. That Word, of course, has nothing to do with you
remaining an old creature and trying to use personal theology to
sanctify yourself.

And I don't know if you ever noticed this about Psalm 119, but I see the
Psalmist having the same war. And I want to show you that. Let's go back
to where we left off, Psalm 119:20, and I want to pick up that great
verse and then I want to take you right through the Psalm, maybe ten or
twelve verses. And they're very brief, but follow closely.
>
> "My soul breaks - " that's a very, very intense language. "My soul breaks for the longing that it hath unto Thine ordinances at all times." Oh, that's a, you say, "That's a spiritual person with that kind of heartbreaking longing for the things of God." Then look at verse 70. It talks about the proud. "Their heart is as fat as grease." Pretty vivid. "But I delight in Your law."
>
>


--

[Bob Duncan]

On 09/23/2021, Bob Duncan wrote:

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Now I want you to go back to Psalm 119. And I don't know if you ever

noticed this about Psalm 119, but I see the Psalmist having the same
war. And I want to show you that. Let's go back to where we left off,
Psalm 119:20, and I want to pick up that great verse and then I want to
take you right through the Psalm, maybe ten or twelve verses. And
they're very brief, but follow closely.

"My soul breaks - " that's a very, very intense language. "My soul
breaks for the longing that it hath unto Thine ordinances at all times."
Oh, that's a, you say, "That's a spiritual person with that kind of
heartbreaking longing for the things of God." Then look at verse 70. It
talks about the proud. "Their heart is as fat as grease." Pretty vivid.
"But I delight in Your law."


--

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Go to verse 81. "My soul faints for Your salvation: but I hope in Your
word. My eyes fail for Your word, saying, When will You comfort me?
For I am become like a wineskin in the smoke; yet do I not forget Your
statutes." I'm drying out. I need Your law so desperately. I feel so cut
off from it. And here is this heart panting after God's law.

Verse 92. "Unless Your law had been my delights, I should then have
perished in mine affliction." Verse 97 sums it up. "O how I love Your
law! it is my meditation all the day." Verse 113. "I hate vain thoughts:
but Your law do I love." So vivid. Verse 131. "I open my mouth, and
panted:" You say, "You been running a long ways?" No. "I longed for Your
commandments." That is - do you experience that? That's a profound
hunger for the commandment. You have little question about the
spirituality of this man.

[El Kabong]

Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <sidpvu$gbk$3...@dont-email.me>,
> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There is no indwelling sin of unbelieving in the believer. Unless you
> > have a different definition of 'believer'?
>
> How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
> never doubt their beliefs?

If there were any believers whose faith rose to
metaphysical certitude, and if the gospels were true,
then the faithful could move volcanoes and heal covid.

No such thing is known to have ever happened.

[Michael Christ]

On 24/09/2021 12:04 pm, Bob Duncan wrote:
>
> The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
> by John MacArthur

Is a sinner saved, Bob?

And if you say yes, what from? He is still in his sin.






Michael Christ

>
> Go to verse 81. "My soul faints for Your salvation: but I hope in Your
> word. My eyes fail for Your word, saying, When will You comfort me?
> For I am become like a wineskin in the smoke; yet do I not forget Your
> statutes." I'm drying out. I need Your law so desperately. I feel so cut
> off from it. And here is this heart panting after God's law.
>
> Verse 92. "Unless Your law had been my delights, I should then have
> perished in mine affliction." Verse 97 sums it up. "O how I love Your
> law! it is my meditation all the day." Verse 113. "I hate vain thoughts:
> but Your law do I love." So vivid. Verse 131. "I open my mouth, and
> panted:" You say, "You been running a long ways?" No. "I longed for Your
> commandments." That is - do you experience that? That's a profound
> hunger for the commandment. You have little question about the
> spirituality of this man.
>
>


--

[Michael Christ]

On 24/09/2021 12:19 pm, El Kabong wrote:
> Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <sidpvu$gbk$3...@dont-email.me>,
>> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There is no indwelling sin of unbelieving in the believer. Unless you
>>> have a different definition of 'believer'?
>>
>> How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
>> never doubt their beliefs?

I don't.

Waiting, resting, being still, and knowing all there is is because He
set it as is, is the understanding I am at right now.

Takes a bit of ye olde determination, it does.

> If there were any believers whose faith rose to
> metaphysical certitude, and if the gospels were true,
> then the faithful could move volcanoes and heal covid.
>
> No such thing is known to have ever happened.

Volcanoes are okay where they are at the moment, and Covid is just the
way man made it.

If is not about the will of a man but the will of God.

However, if it not God's will to clean your teeth, guess what, you won't
be able to clean your teeth.




Michael Christ

[Siri Cruise]

In article <sijdoe$7l1$3...@dont-email.me>,

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >> How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
> >> never doubt their beliefs?
>
> I don't.
>
> Waiting, resting, being still, and knowing all there is is because He
> set it as is, is the understanding I am at right now.
>
> Takes a bit of ye olde determination, it does.

Why do you need determination if you never use it?

[El Kabong]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 24/09/2021 12:19 pm, El Kabong wrote:
> > Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <sidpvu$gbk$3...@dont-email.me>,
> >> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> There is no indwelling sin of unbelieving in the believer. Unless you
> >>> have a different definition of 'believer'?
> >>
> >> How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
> >> never doubt their beliefs?
>
> I don't.
>
> Waiting, resting, being still, and knowing all there is is because He
> set it as is, is the understanding I am at right now.
>
> Takes a bit of ye olde determination, it does.

So your faith is imperfect.

So much for your claim to christhood.

> > If there were any believers whose faith rose to
> > metaphysical certitude, and if the gospels were true,
> > then the faithful could move volcanoes and heal covid.
> >
> > No such thing is known to have ever happened.
>
> Volcanoes are okay where they are at the moment,

That's your opinion. People sitting at its foot have a
different point of view.

It doesn't matter tho, the bible says you can move
mountains if your faith is up to it. Yours isn't,
clearly a biproduct of your doubter sinner religion.

> and Covid is just the
> way man made it.

Now you're just wanking. If you had faith you'd "know"
God made covid, smallpox, and all the nasty little
venomous beasties in Oz.

<snip wanking>

[John Ritson]

In article <siivm7$j8n$3...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

The same law that elsewhere has been written off as useless for
salvation.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

That;s just sinusoide that becomes parabole.
Reincarnation, repeat classes until learned then skyrocket into Heaven.
You can't see GOD until you hit BOTTOM.

--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

Evil Sinner!

[Michael Christ]

On 24/09/2021 1:49 pm, El Kabong wrote:
> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24/09/2021 12:19 pm, El Kabong wrote:
>>> Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <sidpvu$gbk$3...@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There is no indwelling sin of unbelieving in the believer. Unless you
>>>>> have a different definition of 'believer'?
>>>>
>>>> How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
>>>> never doubt their beliefs?
>>
>> I don't.
>>
>> Waiting, resting, being still, and knowing all there is is because He
>> set it as is, is the understanding I am at right now.
>>
>> Takes a bit of ye olde determination, it does.
>
> So your faith is imperfect.

Ever the silly ignorant liar.

My faith is active, that is what faith is.

>
> So much for your claim to christhood.

So much for you knowing anything.

>
>
>>> If there were any believers whose faith rose to
>>> metaphysical certitude, and if the gospels were true,
>>> then the faithful could move volcanoes and heal covid.
>>>
>>> No such thing is known to have ever happened.
>>
>> Volcanoes are okay where they are at the moment,
>
> That's your opinion. People sitting at its foot have a
> different point of view.

Yeah, that's my opinion.

Finally, you got something. Not much, but heck, I'll take what I can get.

>
> It doesn't matter tho, the bible says you can move
> mountains if your faith is up to it. Yours isn't,
> clearly a biproduct of your doubter sinner religion.

Your mountain is stuck in the sludge of self, my mountain was indeed
picked up and tossed into the sea.

>
>> and Covid is just the
>> way man made it.
>
> Now you're just wanking. If you had faith you'd "know"
> God made covid, smallpox, and all the nasty little
> venomous beasties in Oz.

What you sow is what you reap, El Genius.

What you don't want to??? Well ain't that too bad. Wake up, Cowboy.





Michael Christ


>
> <snip wanking>

[Michael Christ]

On 24/09/2021 1:37 pm, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <sijdoe$7l1$3...@dont-email.me>,
> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
>>>> never doubt their beliefs?
>>
>> I don't.
>>
>> Waiting, resting, being still, and knowing all there is is because He
>> set it as is, is the understanding I am at right now.
>>
>> Takes a bit of ye olde determination, it does.
>
> Why do you need determination if you never use it?
>

That is a silly question, Siri. I anticipate that kind of shallow
stupid shit from El Kabingo, but not you.

Everyone has determination and they use it one way or another, even when
they don't know it.

You try being patient, staying still, and resting in what otherwise you
would eagerly like to 'hurry along'. God does not crush personality,
Cruisey, on the contrary. Look at me in this really fucked up atheist
world indulging it! :-).

You don't know what real determination is until you've allowed God to
show you, though.

Think of Job.







Michael Christ

[Siri Cruise]

In article <siliol$s4l$3...@dont-email.me>,

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> That is a silly question, Siri. I anticipate that kind of shallow
> stupid shit from El Kabingo, but not you.

Why would you carry a canteen when you're at home with a water
faucet a few meters away?

[Michael Christ]

On 25/09/2021 8:56 am, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <siliol$s4l$3...@dont-email.me>,
> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That is a silly question, Siri. I anticipate that kind of shallow
>> stupid shit from El Kabingo, but not you.
>
> Why would you carry a canteen when you're at home with a water
> faucet a few meters away?
>

Is that supposed to be deep?

A few meters is as a thousand miles and a thousand miles be as a few meters.

There you go.

[El Kabong]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 24/09/2021 1:49 pm, El Kabong wrote:
> > Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 24/09/2021 12:19 pm, El Kabong wrote:
> >>> Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In article <sidpvu$gbk$3...@dont-email.me>,
> >>>> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> There is no indwelling sin of unbelieving in the believer. Unless you
> >>>>> have a different definition of 'believer'?
> >>>>
> >>>> How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
> >>>> never doubt their beliefs?
> >>
> >> I don't.
> >>
> >> Waiting, resting, being still, and knowing all there is is because He
> >> set it as is, is the understanding I am at right now.
> >>
> >> Takes a bit of ye olde determination, it does.
> >
> > So your faith is imperfect.
>
> Ever the silly ignorant liar.
>
> My faith is active, that is what faith is.

Faith is only passive acceptance of things that can't be
arrived at by reason. How is it active? Do you go
around looking for absurd propositions to believe?

> > So much for your claim to christhood.
>
> So much for you knowing anything.

Not convincing. Try harder.

> >>> If there were any believers whose faith rose to
> >>> metaphysical certitude, and if the gospels were true,
> >>> then the faithful could move volcanoes and heal covid.
> >>>
> >>> No such thing is known to have ever happened.
> >>
> >> Volcanoes are okay where they are at the moment,
> >
> > That's your opinion. People sitting at its foot have a
> > different point of view.
>
> Yeah, that's my opinion.

Being the messiah, does your opinion preempt the desires
of the restless natives living at the foot of the
volcano? Should they gladly die in pyroclastic mud out
of deference to your opinion?

Why won't you just toss the fucking volcano into the sea
and save them? What kind of christ are you?

> > It doesn't matter tho, the bible says you can move
> > mountains if your faith is up to it. Yours isn't,
> > clearly a biproduct of your doubter sinner religion.
>
> Your mountain is stuck in the sludge of self, my mountain was indeed
> picked up and tossed into the sea.

You don't have a mountain, that's just your overfed ego.

> >> and Covid is just the
> >> way man made it.
> >
> > Now you're just wanking. If you had faith you'd "know"
> > God made covid, smallpox, and all the nasty little
> > venomous beasties in Oz.
>
>
> What you sow is what you reap, El Genius.
>
> What you don't want to??? Well ain't that too bad. Wake up, Cowboy.

Yeah, I made covid, smallpox and poisonous beasties.

You're wanking incoherent again. You don't even try.

> > <snip wanking>

[Michael Christ]

On 26/09/2021 6:39 pm, El Kabong wrote:
> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24/09/2021 1:49 pm, El Kabong wrote:
>>> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24/09/2021 12:19 pm, El Kabong wrote:
>>>>> Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <sidpvu$gbk$3...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no indwelling sin of unbelieving in the believer. Unless you
>>>>>>> have a different definition of 'believer'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many people do you know who never waver, never question,
>>>>>> never doubt their beliefs?
>>>>
>>>> I don't.
>>>>
>>>> Waiting, resting, being still, and knowing all there is is because He
>>>> set it as is, is the understanding I am at right now.
>>>>
>>>> Takes a bit of ye olde determination, it does.
>>>
>>> So your faith is imperfect.
>>
>> Ever the silly ignorant liar.
>>
>> My faith is active, that is what faith is.
>
> Faith is only passive acceptance of things that can't be
> arrived at by reason. How is it active? Do you go
> around looking for absurd propositions to believe?

All you show is that you are clueless, El Bingo, as real faith is always
active, it can't be anything else.

Every day you seem to fuck up, yet continue to wank??!!

>
>>> So much for your claim to christhood.
>>
>> So much for you knowing anything.
>
> Not convincing. Try harder.

I'm busy.

>
>
>>>>> If there were any believers whose faith rose to
>>>>> metaphysical certitude, and if the gospels were true,
>>>>> then the faithful could move volcanoes and heal covid.
>>>>>
>>>>> No such thing is known to have ever happened.
>>>>
>>>> Volcanoes are okay where they are at the moment,
>>>
>>> That's your opinion. People sitting at its foot have a
>>> different point of view.
>>
>> Yeah, that's my opinion.
>
> Being the messiah, does your opinion preempt the desires
> of the restless natives living at the foot of the
> volcano? Should they gladly die in pyroclastic mud out
> of deference to your opinion?

You are dead anyway, so whatever you want.

>
> Why won't you just toss the fucking volcano into the sea
> and save them? What kind of christ are you?

You fuck up, you reap.

>
>
>>> It doesn't matter tho, the bible says you can move
>>> mountains if your faith is up to it. Yours isn't,
>>> clearly a biproduct of your doubter sinner religion.
>>
>> Your mountain is stuck in the sludge of self, my mountain was indeed
>> picked up and tossed into the sea.
>
> You don't have a mountain, that's just your overfed ego.

Oh okay.

>
>
>>>> and Covid is just the
>>>> way man made it.
>>>
>>> Now you're just wanking. If you had faith you'd "know"
>>> God made covid, smallpox, and all the nasty little
>>> venomous beasties in Oz.
>>
>>
>> What you sow is what you reap, El Genius.
>>
>> What you don't want to??? Well ain't that too bad. Wake up, Cowboy.
>
> Yeah, I made covid, smallpox and poisonous beasties.

Yes you did.

>
> You're wanking incoherent again. You don't even try.

At least, you finally confessed.

[El Kabong]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

<snip a big nothingburger>

This was a really weak effort, MX.

It says you are only posting to hear your head rattle.
It's better that you just keep quiet.

[Siri Cruise]

> On 26/09/2021 6:39 pm, El Kabong wrote:

> > Faith is only passive acceptance of things that can't be
> > arrived at by reason. How is it active? Do you go
> > around looking for absurd propositions to believe?

I'm still waiting for the active argument using reason and logic
that solipism is false.

[Michael Christ]

Nothingburger snippers are not my diet.






Michael Christ

[Michael Christ]

On 26/09/2021 10:37 pm, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> On 26/09/2021 6:39 pm, El Kabong wrote:
>
>>> Faith is only passive acceptance of things that can't be
>>> arrived at by reason. How is it active? Do you go
>>> around looking for absurd propositions to believe?

Siri wrote:
> I'm still waiting for the active argument using reason and logic
> that solipism is false.

You just validated your own falsity.

So that you understand what was just said. I'm NOT waiting for an
active argument using reason and logic for God to be made false because
I know of the existence of God.

I hope you can ascend to that understanding.




Michael Christ

[El Kabong]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 26/09/2021 10:37 pm, Siri Cruise wrote:
> >> On 26/09/2021 6:39 pm, El Kabong wrote:
> >
> >>> Faith is only passive acceptance of things that can't be
> >>> arrived at by reason. How is it active? Do you go
> >>> around looking for absurd propositions to believe?
>
> Siri wrote:
> > I'm still waiting for the active argument using reason and logic
> > that solipism is false.

If you use reason and logic, it's not faith.

Faith is religion, reason is science. HTH.

> You just validated your own falsity.
>
> So that you understand what was just said. I'm NOT waiting for an
> active argument using reason and logic for God to be made false because
> I know of the existence of God.

That's because you cast your lot with I-AMness, the
gluttony of self, instead of reason.

> I hope you can ascend to that understanding.

The world has passed MXtianity by. It will never again
come down to your level, unless civilization collapses.

[Michael Christ]

Interesting.

It will collapse.

Can't you see that?

[Siri Cruise]

> On 27/09/2021 5:45 pm, El Kabong wrote:

> >> Siri wrote:
> >>> I'm still waiting for the active argument using reason and logic
> >>> that solipism is false.
> >
> > If you use reason and logic, it's not faith.

Since you haven't used reason or logic, you're saying solipism is
valid.

> > Faith is religion, reason is science. HTH.

Prove reason is valid.

Or don't. I'm used to mental midgets. To you 'science' is
absolute truth beyond analysis and question. It is your religion.
You are too limited to do a metaanalysis on faith and postulates
amd fundamentals of formal logic. Do you know you can do logic
without the excluded middle? Do you know what the excluded middle
is? Can you recognise whenever it assumed to be valid?

Do some non-euclidean geometry. Do you know the fundamental
reason math education includes geometry?

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 00:45:26 -0700, El Kabong <tw...@the.noodle>
wrote:

>Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 26/09/2021 10:37 pm, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> >> On 26/09/2021 6:39 pm, El Kabong wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Faith is only passive acceptance of things that can't be
>> >>> arrived at by reason. How is it active? Do you go
>> >>> around looking for absurd propositions to believe?
>>
>> Siri wrote:
>> > I'm still waiting for the active argument using reason and logic
>> > that solipism is false.
>
>If you use reason and logic, it's not faith.
>
>Faith is religion, reason is science. HTH.

Faith is former(?) Britishnude model who suffered from a serious case
of macromastia...

https://www.inbedwithfaith.com/

[aaa]

On 2021-09-26 8:37 a.m., Siri Cruise wrote:
>> On 26/09/2021 6:39 pm, El Kabong wrote:
>
>>> Faith is only passive acceptance of things that can't be
>>> arrived at by reason. How is it active? Do you go
>>> around looking for absurd propositions to believe?
>
> I'm still waiting for the active argument using reason and logic
> that solipism is false.
>

Since Christ is real, solipsism must be false.


--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.

God's spiritual evidence is evident in everyone.
Find it and treasure it because it's the covenant of God.
It's the reason why we are given this life on earth.
It's the foundation why we can have meaning in life.

Let's all honor our personal spiritual evidence of God for the sake of
Christ!

[El Kabong]

Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > On 27/09/2021 5:45 pm, El Kabong wrote:
>
> > >> Siri wrote:
> > >>> I'm still waiting for the active argument using reason and logic
> > >>> that solipism is false.
> > >
> > > If you use reason and logic, it's not faith.
>
> Since you haven't used reason or logic, you're saying solipism is
> valid.

The dictionary is your friend.

> > > Faith is religion, reason is science. HTH.
>
> Prove reason is valid.

Prove the shortest distance between 2 points is a
straight line.

> Or don't. I'm used to mental midgets. To you 'science' is
> absolute truth beyond analysis and question. It is your religion.
> You are too limited to do a metaanalysis on faith and postulates
> amd fundamentals of formal logic. Do you know you can do logic
> without the excluded middle? Do you know what the excluded middle
> is? Can you recognise whenever it assumed to be valid?
>
> Do some non-euclidean geometry. Do you know the fundamental
> reason math education includes geometry?

Since you've killfiled me, how do you know I haven't
already proven everything?

Maybe MX will explain it all to you.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Verse 143. "Trouble and anguish have taken hold of me: yet Thy
commandments are my delight." Verse 163. "I hate and abhor lying: but
Thy law do I love." Verse 165. "Great peace have they who love Thy law:
and nothing shall offend them." Verse 174. "I have longed for Thy
salvation, O Lord; and Thy law is my delight."

Now by the time you get to 174 you say to yourself, "This guy is so
spiritual, it's, you know, intimidating." And then you're literally
knocked over by the last verse in the Psalm. What does it say? "I have
gone astray like a lost sheep; seek Thy servant; for I do not forget Thy
commandments."

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

You say, "Wait a minute, this guy is really riding the crest. What are
you doing ending a thing like that?" You know what he says? "I love Thy
law." And at the very end he says, "But I've gone astray." See, he was
right where Paul was, wasn't he? Same conflict. It's no different. Now
let's go back to Romans 7.

What's the source? The proof is in the first part of verse 23, where he
says "I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my
mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my
members." What is the source? Well, it's right there in that same verse.
"Bringing me into captivity to the law of - " what? " - sin which is in
my members."

[John Ritson]

In article <siusm0$1ceo$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

So all the nonsense about "positional sanctification" and a "new nature"
is abandoned. You can be " sanctified" as much as you like, and still be
in "captivity to the law of sin". So much for being "dead to sin".
But they still try to get money out of you under the pretext of raising
you to this imaginary status.

[Bob Duncan]

The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
by John MacArthur

Why do you sin? Why do you sin? Because God didn't do a good job when
He saved you? Cause your new nature isn't complete? Because you're not
prepared for heaven yet and you've still got to earn your way in? No.
Why do you sin? Because what? Sin is still there in your humanness. And
this has to be a believer because unbelievers aren't brought into the
captivity of sin. They're already there. And your members, your
humanness, includes your mind, and your emotion, your feeling, your
body, and all those things.

In 2 Corinthians 10:3. "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war
after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but
mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)" I love that.
He says, "You know, though we have to walk around in this flesh, when
you get to the real us, it's really not flesh at all, is it? The weapons
with which we fight are not fleshly. They're spiritual."

[John Ritson]

In article <sj1j02$jhu$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bob Duncan
<bob7d...@gmail.com> writes
>

As usual, for "spiritual". read "imaginary".

[Michael Christ]

On 29/09/2021 9:34 pm, Bob Duncan wrote:
>
> The Believer and Indwelling Sin, Part 2
> by John MacArthur
>
> Why do you sin? Why do you sin?

Because you are not saved, you are a sinner, not sanctified and
unregenerated.

There you go.

Or is that too simple for your sin-accommodating theology??






Michael Christ

Because God didn't do a good job when
> He saved you? Cause your new nature isn't complete? Because you're not
> prepared for heaven yet and you've still got to earn your way in? No.
> Why do you sin? Because what? Sin is still there in your humanness. And
> this has to be a believer because unbelievers aren't brought into the
> captivity of sin. They're already there. And your members, your
> humanness, includes your mind, and your emotion, your feeling, your
> body, and all those things.
>
> In 2 Corinthians 10:3. "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war
> after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but
> mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)" I love that.
> He says, "You know, though we have to walk around in this flesh, when
> you get to the real us, it's really not flesh at all, is it? The weapons
> with which we fight are not fleshly. They're spiritual."
>


--