aa It's sometimes mind boggling...
Lady Lorelei
rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
ridiculous!!
Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
Enquiring minds want to know.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lady Lorelei Dept. Head of EAC Royalty Division
atheist #1049 EAC member #97 BAAWA Knight!
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
yang hu
> Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
> mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
er... does that mean he'll be spending time alone in his room thinking
about what he has done?
--
Yang
a.a.#28
EAC mole
rev #-273.15, high priest of the most frigid church of Kelvin
"... [Coppola] seriously proposed that Lucas start a religion, using the
murkily defined tenets of the force as a central holy text. The heck
with
the Beatles, Star Wars was bigger than Jesus. "That was Francis' thing,"
said Lucas, "...I rememebr him saying "You know, you've got a certain
amount of power in politics, But religion! With religion you REALLY have
power..."
Entertainment Weekly, 3-26-1999
Jessica M. Wolfman
>I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me something
>rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
>ridiculous!!
>
>Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
>mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
>
>I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
>reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
That poor kid. He's going to have some horrible issues with sex when he grows
up.
>Enquiring minds want to know.....
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Lady Lorelei Dept. Head of EAC Royalty Division
>atheist #1049 EAC member #97 BAAWA Knight!
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jessica Wolfman
sa #1002
"All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions."
--Adlai E. Stevenson
The Adventurers Guild
http://members.tripod.com/~theguild
Replace nospam.com with boo <dot> net to reply via email.
Jack Mott
She believes in the bible
it says masturbating is a no no
she laid down the law.
have some respect for the hard core morons
Lady Lorelei <lore...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:7eao4r$ulk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com...
>I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me
something
>rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
>ridiculous!!
>
>Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
>mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
>
>I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
>reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
>
Mark House
My parents told me that every time I masturbated, it would take a year
off of my life...... apparently I was gonna live to be a million years
old.... sheesh!
raven1
<lore...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me something
>rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
>ridiculous!!
>
>Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
>mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
>
>I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
>reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
Well, you know masturbation can make you lose a testicle! Just ask
Brice W. !
--
All Hail Fondle the Elephant! (Official mascot of THE KIND)
Our debut CD-Single, "Rubber Girl" is now available! (Also featuring "Undertow" and "The Road"). Look for our long-awaited full-length CD "You're Soaking In It" in March! E-mail us for details and upcoming shows!
raven1
>at leats shes not a salad bar christian
>She believes in the bible
>it says masturbating is a no no
The Bible doesn't even mention masturbation. Onan was killed for
practicing coitus interruptus.
>she laid down the law.
>have some respect for the hard core morons
So should she kill her son if she catches him wearing blended fabrics?
Stephen Knight
<lore...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me something
>rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
>ridiculous!!
>
>Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
>mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
Maybe he became too blind to lock the door. ;-)
Steve Knight #855
Knight of BAAWA
Aaron
<lore...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me something
> rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
> ridiculous!!
>
> Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
> mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
>
> I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
> reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
>
> Enquiring minds want to know...
Well... I understand that there are a few mormon teens who kill
themselves every year because they cannot stop masturbating.
I wonder what kind of outlook on sex that poor kid is going to grow up
with - it's almost certain to be unhealthy.
--
Aaron I. Spielman | Atheist #1467 | "The good die young - because they
aa...@rockethouse.net | Cussard #.357 | see it's no use living if you've
www.rockethouse.net | fnord! | got to be good."
Official Lunatic Biker of the EAC | ---John Barrymore
Aaron
> On Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:25:10 GMT, Lady Lorelei
> <lore...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> >I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me
something
> >rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
> >ridiculous!!
> >
> >Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
> >mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
> >
> >I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
> >reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
>
> Well, you know masturbation can make you lose a testicle! Just ask
> Brice W. !
Jeeeez.. I've only got _two_ left. Maybe I should stop.
Aaron
> at leats shes not a salad bar christian
> She believes in the bible
> it says masturbating is a no no
> she laid down the law.
> have some respect for the hard core morons
Why? Why on _earth_ should I respect someone as obviously stupid as that
poor child's mother?
ClayeSkye
>something
>rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
>ridiculous!!
>
>Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
>mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
>
>I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
>reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
I wish that people would realize how normal and healthy this is and not
continue to give their children unhealthy perceptions of their own bodies. My
son started "exploring" himself at about 8 months when he first noticed he had
something between his legs.(That was one funny moment <looks down, looks up,
lloks down again and looks at me with wonder>) When he started to pull down
his pants in the living room and show us, we just told him he had to do that by
himself in his room.
>Enquiring minds want to know.....
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Lady Lorelei Dept. Head of EAC Royalty Division
>atheist #1049 EAC member #97 BAAWA Knight!
#4
ClayeSkye
"I still believe that I cannot be saved" Smashing Pumpkins - Bullet with
Butterfly Wings
erikc
Meggi...@webtv.net (Mark House) wrote:
-- origin: alt.atheism:
My father would tell me that if I masturbated, it would make hair grow
on my palms. If he were right, today I would look like a werewolf.
;-)
Erikc
_ _
.nnn0 / ) ( \ 0nnn.
( ) / ( ) \ ( )
\ ( ( ) ( ) ) /
\_) .uuu0 0uuu. (_/
Hard at work, but hardly working.
Christian Fundamentalism: The doctrine that there is
an absolutely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable,
universe spanning entity that is deeply obsessed with
my sex life.
Stix
>I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me something
>rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
>ridiculous!!
>Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
>mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
>I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
>reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
No, no, no!! She didn't ground him for masturbating, she grounded him
because *he wasn't doing it right*!!
"Now, young man, you'll stay in your room and practice till you can
shoot your jizz in LESS THAN forty-five strokes!"
Momma's just afraid her little darling might lose if he ever plays the
'soggy cracker' game. (don't ask -- trust me, you don't wanna know).
Stix
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"Mysticism is a disease of the mind."
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Stix
>at leats shes not a salad bar christian
>She believes in the bible
>it says masturbating is a no no
>she laid down the law.
>have some respect for the hard core morons
Uh huh. So by the same standard we should also respect the Jehovah's
Witnesses who let their children die rather than permit them to
receive a blood transfusion?
Respect? For MINDLESS FUCKING BLEATERS AND THE IDIOTIC DOGSHIT FUCKING
CRAP THEY FORCE UPON THEIR CHILDREN??
Not on your fucking life.
Stix
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"Christianity has a vested interest in human misery."
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Booster
<lore...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
Maybe it wasn't just the masturbation he is being punished for.
Maybe, for instance, he was wearing a pair of her panties on his
head at the time.... ;-)
>I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me something
>rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
>ridiculous!!
>
>Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
>mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
>
>I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
>reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
Be careful, that rhymes. If it get's out it may begin appearing on
bumper stickers in Alabama and other fundy states: "Dildos are for
weirdos" "castration for masturbation"....
>Enquiring minds want to know.....
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Lady Lorelei Dept. Head of EAC Royalty Division
>atheist #1049 EAC member #97 BAAWA Knight!
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Atheist #383
Evil_...@Zahadum.com.com <--spam foiler
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_
__|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____
_____|_____|_____|DEFEND_____|_____|_____|
__|_____|_____|____THE____|_____|_____|___
_____|_____|_____|_WALL|_____|_____|_____|
__|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____
Jack Mott
respect them a bit more than some asshole who calls himself a good Xtian,
gets elected president, then fucks an intern.
:)
Stix <st...@BAAWA.com.au> wrote in message
news:370e8448...@news.ozemail.com.au...
stoney
[>In article <7eao4r$ulk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Lady Lorelei
[><lore...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
[>
[>>I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me
something
[>>rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
[>>ridiculous!!
[>>
[>>Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
[>>mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
[>>
[>>I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
[>>reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
[>
[>
[>I am speaking as a man who stopped a family tradition of physical
[>punishment, by standing up to my father, bless his loving soul and I mean
[>that as much as an atheist can.
[>
[>So here we have a male headed toward a lifetime of anger toward --- who?
[>Women? Mother figures? Authority figures? Whoever it is, someone, in
[>addition to the boy himself, will pay if he is not helped. And his mom is
[>only the conduit of repression, not the source. Each family has to reach a
[>generation that stops the repression. Is there anything that can be done to
[>help him be the one?
That has to be done by the individual realizing that the actions that were done
was wrong and it ends now. The only thing I can think of is for those around
him to help him come to terms with things. [general statement alert]
SToney
stoney
[>Lady Lorelei wrote:
[>
[>> Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
[>> mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
[>
[>er... does that mean he'll be spending time alone in his room thinking
[>about what he has done?
LOL!
Stoney
stoney
[>at leats shes not a salad bar christian
[>She believes in the bible
[>it says masturbating is a no no
[>she laid down the law.
[>have some respect for the hard core morons
You must be joking. Respect for moronic behaviour?
[snip]
Stoney
Aaron
> hmm
> respect them a bit more than some asshole who calls himself a good Xtian,
> gets elected president, then fucks an intern.
>
> :)
Dude, you sound like you need to get laid. Why the FUCK would an Aussie
(Stix) respect ANY American presidork? Especially a "good xtian"
presidork? For that matter WHAT THE FUCK DOES YOUR OPINION OF CLINTON
HAVE TO DO WITH THREAD?
Fritz
firewevr...@insync.net (erikc) wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:22:04 -0500 (CDT)
> Meggi...@webtv.net (Mark House) wrote:
> -- origin: alt.atheism:
> >|Re: caught masturbating
> >|
> >| My parents told me that every time I masturbated, it would take a year
> >|off of my life...... apparently I was gonna live to be a million years
> >|old.... sheesh!
>
> My father would tell me that if I masturbated, it would make hair grow
> on my palms. If he were right, today I would look like a werewolf.
> ;-)
According to one of the spiels given in US military indoctrination to new
male recruits (as related by someone who heard it firsthand while standing
at attention), 95% of all men masturbate, and the other 5% are liars.
I would be interested to know if a parallel spiel was given to the female
recruits.
Fritz
--
"If we assume that man actually does resemble God, then we are
forced into the impossible theory that God is a coward, an idiot
and a bounder." H.L. Mencken
Danny Mac
Fritz <Fr...@someplace.net> wrote in message
Fritz-06049...@stanh22.planet.net...
>In article <37095a50....@news.insync.net>,
>firewevr...@insync.net (erikc) wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:22:04 -0500 (CDT)
>> Meggi...@webtv.net (Mark House) wrote:
>> -- origin: alt.atheism:
>> >|Re: caught masturbating
>> >|
>> >| My parents told me that every time I masturbated, it would take a
year
>> >|off of my life...... apparently I was gonna live to be a million years
>> >|old.... sheesh!
>>
>> My father would tell me that if I masturbated, it would make hair grow
>> on my palms. If he were right, today I would look like a werewolf.
>> ;-)
>
>According to one of the spiels given in US military indoctrination to new
>male recruits (as related by someone who heard it firsthand while standing
>at attention), 95% of all men masturbate, and the other 5% are liars.
>
I find that incredibly hard to believe that a drill sergent would say that.
Masterbation is frowned upon in basic training -- too many people and not
enough space. Not to mention the fact that the military still has some
pretty old-fashioned standards of behavior. I heard of a guy who got caught
in the stairwell and the drill sergent made him stand in front of the entire
company (150 men and women) to be ridiculed. Pretty embarrassing
stuff...(and no, it wasn't me).
I got into deep shit for kissing a female while in basic. I was lucky I
didn't get kicked out entirely. All male/female "relationships" are
forbidden, again because there is no room for such activity and you don't
want recruits to become obsessed with sex and love and have their minds not
be on killing.
I am not saying your friend is making the story up. No pearls of wisdom
from a drill sergents mouth would ever surprise me. I'm just saying that
masturbation is not military policy!
----
Danny Mac
#1516
Charles R Ward
wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:22:04 -0500 (CDT)
> Meggi...@webtv.net (Mark House) wrote:
> -- origin: alt.atheism:
> >|Re: caught masturbating
> >|
> >| My parents told me that every time I masturbated, it would take a year
> >|off of my life...... apparently I was gonna live to be a million years
> >|old.... sheesh!
>
> My father would tell me that if I masturbated, it would make hair grow
> on my palms. If he were right, today I would look like a werewolf.
> ;-)
>
>
> Erikc
>
Aw well, I guess the thickness of my glasses give me away.
Charles R Ward
Michael Moore
>
> In article <37095a50....@news.insync.net>,
> firewevr...@insync.net (erikc) wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:22:04 -0500 (CDT)
> > Meggi...@webtv.net (Mark House) wrote:
> > -- origin: alt.atheism:
> > >|Re: caught masturbating
> > >|
> > >| My parents told me that every time I masturbated, it would take a year
> > >|off of my life...... apparently I was gonna live to be a million years
> > >|old.... sheesh!
> >
> > My father would tell me that if I masturbated, it would make hair grow
> > on my palms. If he were right, today I would look like a werewolf.
> > ;-)
>
> male recruits (as related by someone who heard it firsthand while standing
> at attention), 95% of all men masturbate, and the other 5% are liars.
In Basic Training there were 30 guys living in the same section
of the barracks. Pretty hard to masturbate without an audience.
--
Michael Moore
Automaton #1446
Stix
(re: respecting christers for adhering to their idiocy)
>hmm
>respect them a bit more than some asshole who calls himself a good Xtian,
>gets elected president, then fucks an intern.
Nah. Personally I'm not American and I really don't give a toss who
sucks your President's dick, but I've never understood what all the
fuss was about anyway. Some fat bimbo flashes her tits at the Prez, he
gets a boner, she sucks the snotty end of it -- *a mutually consenting
act* -- he shoots his wad all over her dress, she keeps the dress
unwashed because she either likes the smell/taste/appearance of stale
Prez-jizz or she's a conniving bimbo who planned to suck her way into
money and notoriety; the sorry-assed American public eats the whole
saga up like candy (much to Lewinsky's delight, no doubt), and the
poor Prez gets raked over the coals because he's a human male who let
a fat, tit-flashing slut suck a particular part of his body that feels
nice when it's sucked and just happens to squirt DNA-laced fluid when
sucked for extended periods of time.
Had it been his finger, no one would have given it a second thought,
but because it was his <shock! horror!> P E N I S <gasp!> the poor
bloke has to go on national TV and tell the voyeuristic American
public all the seamy details about how he let a chick who could suck
the skin off a basketball with a drinking straw give him an orgasm.
Whoopee-fucking-chook.
Methinks the lot of you should get a life. Indeed, if I'd been the
Prez I would have worn the bullshit until it passed the point of 'fuck
this for a joke', then I would have told you all to fuck right off
and, with my middle finger extended, waltzed the fuck out of the White
House . . .
<screen goes wavy as we cut to a Stixian handling of the situation>
"Yeah yeah, so she sucked my dick -- big fucking deal. How can you
blame me? Have you copped a load of the size of the bitch's lips? I
mean, she's got some BIG ASSED LIPS for cryin' out loud and she can
suck a golf ball through a garden hose -- but so what? Do you want me
to play Prez, or do you want to whine about me getting blown? What??
You want to whine?? Oh for fuck sake! Ok then, here ya go! Here's a
goddamn video of the blowjob in question for you to jerk-off over, you
boring pack of nosey, no-life, who's-sucking-whose-dick-obsessed
wankers -- find some other sucker (or is that 'suckee'?) for
President; I'm outta here."
:)
Danny Mac
Peter Kelly <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
370BB50EB4...@mail.chariot.net.au...
>On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:45:40 -0400 that most illustrious and gifted writer
>of our times Danny Mac<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> did
>eloquently compose:
>
>>
>> I got into deep shit for kissing a female while in basic. I was lucky I
>> didn't get kicked out entirely. All male/female "relationships" are
>> forbidden, again because there is no room for such activity and you don't
>> want recruits to become obsessed with sex and love and have their minds
not
>> be on killing.
>>
>criminal organisation in the world.
>
Oh, here we go again. The U.S. military takes orders from a civilian
commander-in-chief elected by the *people*, and from a civilian secretary of
defense appointed by the president.
Hint: If you don't like it, then change it (if you're American, that is.
Otherwise fuck off. You should be thanking the U.S. military for saving you
from Communism for 40+ years.)
Making outrageously stupid assertions like the one you just posted, while
providing no supporting evidence, will not help your cause.
And again, before attempting to list these crimes, remember where the buck
stops (the American people).
----
Danny Mac
#1516
-Nemo-
RDFinc.@mesanet.com (Red Foster) wrote:
> In article <7eao4r$ulk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Lady Lorelei
> <lore...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> >I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me
something
> >rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
> >ridiculous!!
> >
> >Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
> >mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
> >
> >I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
> >reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
>
>
> I am speaking as a man who stopped a family tradition of physical
> punishment, by standing up to my father, bless his loving soul and I mean
> that as much as an atheist can.
>
I experienced similar embarassments a couple of times when I was a kid. My
mother (an atheist) never talked to me about it. My father (an English
atheist) had some pretty old-fashioned ideas on the subject, and gave me
several very humiliating lectures.
I decided that my son would know from the very beginning (age 3) that I
respected his privacy, and that I had no interest in his development in
this area. My only concern was that he keep it as private as possible, and
(age 13) that he promise to respect the feelings of all girls he went out
with. So far, it's working OK. (knock on wood! {:-))
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
http://home.att.net/~jehdjh
**************************************************
The unexamined life is not worth living.
- Socrates
Nothing works like prayer!
Corallary:
Prayer works like nothing! Exactly like it!
- me
**************************************************
-Nemo-
aa...@rockethouse.DOT.net (Aaron) wrote:
> In article <7eb2qm$cqo$1...@joe.rice.edu>, "Jack Mott" <jm...@rice.edu> wrote:
>
> > at leats shes not a salad bar christian
> > She believes in the bible
> > it says masturbating is a no no
> > she laid down the law.
> > have some respect for the hard core morons
>
> Why? Why on _earth_ should I respect someone as obviously stupid as that
> poor child's mother?
>
Besides, I don't think there's an absolute "Thou shalt not twang the wire"
verse. Just that idiot story about Onam...
-Nemo-
(Stix) wrote:
> Lady Lorelei posted the following to alt.atheism:
>
> >I was talking with my son and his friend last night and they told me
something
> >rather shocking (IMO). I know some christians can be prudes, but this is
> >ridiculous!!
>
> >Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
> >mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
>
> >I find this ludicrous!! I just can't fathom grounding a child for this
> >reason. What's next... castration for masturbation?!?!
>
> No, no, no!! She didn't ground him for masturbating, she grounded him
> because *he wasn't doing it right*!!
>
> "Now, young man, you'll stay in your room and practice till you can
> shoot your jizz in LESS THAN forty-five strokes!"
I played that game in Mexico when I was 14.
>
> Momma's just afraid her little darling might lose if he ever plays the
> 'soggy cracker' game. (don't ask -- trust me, you don't wanna know).
>
Hell, Stix! If we don't wanna know, why tell us it EXISTS?! And I assure
you - I *don't* wanna know...
>
> Stix
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
> "Mysticism is a disease of the mind."
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
-Nemo-
(stoney) wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:11:06 -0700, yang hu <yanghu@***uci***.edu.> wrote:
>
> [>Lady Lorelei wrote:
> [>
> [>> Apparently, one of their friends had been grounded for a month because his
> [>> mother caught him masturbating in the privacy of his own room.
> [>
> [>er... does that mean he'll be spending time alone in his room thinking
> [>about what he has done?
>
The problem with that is that Mommy Dearest will most likely vacuum out
his room, find his stash of Playboys (ever hear of a teenager that didn't
have one?) and burn it in a big xian "bofire of the panties" ceremony.
-Nemo-
aa...@rockethouse.DOT.net (Aaron) wrote:
> In article <7ectim$ei4$1...@joe.rice.edu>, "Jack Mott" <jm...@rice.edu> wrote:
>
> > hmm
> > respect them a bit more than some asshole who calls himself a good Xtian,
> > gets elected president, then fucks an intern.
> >
> > :)
>
> Dude, you sound like you need to get laid. Why the FUCK would an Aussie
> (Stix) respect ANY American presidork? Especially a "good xtian"
> presidork? For that matter WHAT THE FUCK DOES YOUR OPINION OF CLINTON
> HAVE TO DO WITH THREAD?
>
Getting a little TENSE, are we?
-Nemo-
(Stix) wrote:
<snip>
I say: forget the constitution! Stix for President! At least he'd be
consistently entertaining!
-Nemo-
<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:45:40 -0400 that most illustrious and gifted writer
> of our times Danny Mac<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> did
> eloquently compose:
>
> >
> > I got into deep shit for kissing a female while in basic. I was lucky I
> > didn't get kicked out entirely. All male/female "relationships" are
> > forbidden, again because there is no room for such activity and you don't
> > want recruits to become obsessed with sex and love and have their minds not
> > be on killing.
> >
> 'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
> criminal organisation in the world.
They're bigger than the Catholic Church? There's a shock! Now if you're
talking about arsenal sizes, OK (maybe)...
Leonard Timmons
>
> at leats shes not a salad bar christian
> She believes in the bible
> it says masturbating is a no no
> she laid down the law.
> have some respect for the hard core morons
The Bible says that if you have a wet dream
that you are ritually unclean and have to
remain outside camp the entire day and wash
up at sundown. Then you can come back home.
It probably says it a little differently.
The purpose, clearly, is to kill sperm before
one can share the community bath and prevent
the possibility of virgin births.
-leonard
Peter Kelly
of our times Danny Mac<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> did
eloquently compose:
>
> I got into deep shit for kissing a female while in basic. I was lucky I
> didn't get kicked out entirely. All male/female "relationships" are
> forbidden, again because there is no room for such activity and you don't
> want recruits to become obsessed with sex and love and have their minds not
> be on killing.
>
'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
criminal organisation in the world.
--
#1417 rot-13 on email reply
EAC Director of Cryptography Services
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish,
appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave
mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
- Thomas Paine
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://www.chariot.net.au/~pkelly/key.htm
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 196D 0C35 95C9 BFD2 0677 C238 8FDE 0133 86E9 7B89
ClayeSkye
The American public has really gotten tired of all of this crap. Monica's
ratings have not shown the "voyeristic" public to be any more interested in her
than a sitcom.
Why was so much of her book tour in other countries? She is more popular
around the word than she is here. We just turn the channel hoping to get away
from the whole mess.
Peter Kelly
eloquently compose:
> >>
> >'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
> >criminal organisation in the world.
> >
>
> Oh, here we go again. The U.S. military takes orders from a civilian
> commander-in-chief elected by the *people*, and from a civilian secretary of
> defense appointed by the president.
They may take orders but they are the bouncers for the powers that be. It
is a brutal hierarchy and organised hierarchies do more harm to other
people than any normal criminal can. What makes the army "right" in what
they do is might.
>
> Hint: If you don't like it, then change it (if you're American, that is.
> Otherwise fuck off.
No I have freedom of speech so I don't have to "fuck off". I am
Australian but that makes no difference as armies everywhere are the
same. For eg the Australian army has been training an army unit of Indonesian
soldiers who have been "peace keeping" East Timor.
> You should be thanking the U.S. military for saving you
> from Communism for 40+ years.)
Me? I don't thank anyone for Echelon set up by 5 countries and
supervised by the NSA.
>
> Making outrageously stupid assertions like the one you just posted, while
> providing no supporting evidence, will not help your cause.
There is much that the US military has not saved the world from. Like
the coup in Chile that installed Pinochet. Or the coup in Indonesia in
1965 that installed Suharto. After that one 1/2 million people were
murdered. These included a list of 7,000 supplied by the CIA (part of
the military) to Suharto. The bloodletting in Central America in
Guatemala and Nicaragua with US assistance. They did stop 2 million
Vietnamese from dying out of 30 million. Vietnam had agent orange poured
onto its' fields and forests and today Vietnam has the highest rate of
co-joined twins in the world. But of course the US army can not be blamed for
anything because they are the "goodies".
>
> And again, before attempting to list these crimes, remember where the buck
> stops (the American people).
>
I know. "I was only following orders". Why has the US refused to sign an
agreement for an International Human Rights Court? Is the US expecting
to do more Chiles in the future?
OldguyTeck
-Nemo- wrote in message ...
Shure! Why not, and we can have for his running mates, Americas most wanted
!
Ed.................(Oldguyteck) †
Aaron
> >
> Getting a little TENSE, are we?
Yep. Mott's an idiot. He always manages to piss me off. Also, I'm
getting _tired_ of people bitching about the presidork. Get over it.
Aaron
> >
> 'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
> criminal organisation in the world.
What kind of _bullshit_ is that? The military is a "criminal
organization"? Care to provide evidence for you spurious claim?
I _really_ don't appreciate being called a criminal, by you or anyone
else. Fuck _off_, Peter.
Aaron
> No I have freedom of speech so I don't have to "fuck off". I am
> Australian but that makes no difference as armies everywhere are the
> same. For eg the Australian army has been training an army unit of Indonesian
> soldiers who have been "peace keeping" East Timor.
So vote to change it, dumbshit. Stop complaining and _do_ something
about it.
<>snip<>
> There is much that the US military has not saved the world from. Like
> the coup in Chile that installed Pinochet. Or the coup in Indonesia in
> 1965 that installed Suharto. After that one 1/2 million people were
> murdered. These included a list of 7,000 supplied by the CIA (part of
> the military) to Suharto. The bloodletting in Central America in
> Guatemala and Nicaragua with US assistance. They did stop 2 million
> Vietnamese from dying out of 30 million. Vietnam had agent orange poured
> onto its' fields and forests and today Vietnam has the highest rate of
> co-joined twins in the world. But of course the US army can not be blamed for
> anything because they are the "goodies".
> >
> > And again, before attempting to list these crimes, remember where the buck
> > stops (the American people).
> >
> I know. "I was only following orders". Why has the US refused to sign an
> agreement for an International Human Rights Court? Is the US expecting
> to do more Chiles in the future?
Probably. But I did no such thing during _my_ tour. And I consistently
vote against those in power.
I _did_, however, put my own ass on the line (as did Danny) to work for
the defense of my country. In what way is that criminal?
Get this straight: In the U.S. and Australia, the military is a tool of
the government. If you don't like what your government does with it's
tools, then change your fucking government.
Petteri Sulonen
<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
> >criminal organisation in the world.
> >
> Oh, here we go again. The U.S. military takes orders from a civilian
> commander-in-chief elected by the *people*, and from a civilian secretary of
> defense appointed by the president.
I understand he was referring to armies in general, not the US one in
particular (although its record isn't as lily-white as some Americans
would like to believe). What in the world were they thinking of when they
started that totally pointless and obviously disastrous air campaign in
Kosovo, for one thing (of course, the Brits, French, and Germans bear a
large chunk of responsibility for that too).
> Hint: If you don't like it, then change it (if you're American, that is.
> Otherwise fuck off. You should be thanking the U.S. military for saving you
> from Communism for 40+ years.)
Thank you, US military, for saving us from Communism for 40+ years.
That line is getting kinda old, though. "We get to do what we want because
we saved your asses from Communism, so shut the fuck up" doesn't sound
very... democratic? Isn't that what the US is supposedly protecting?
> Making outrageously stupid assertions like the one you just posted, while
> providing no supporting evidence, will not help your cause.
It looked like me to be a statement of opinion -- and one that he's
perfectly willing to defend, if asked to. If he doesn't want to, I can
take a shot. ;-)
> And again, before attempting to list these crimes, remember where the buck
> stops (the American people).
You're pretty naive if you think that's who's running America (on the
federal level at least) these days.
-- Petteri
--
"You know what? I'm happy." | EAC, Commissar
-- Droopy | a.a #1442. BAAWA!
DarkAngel
> Peter Kelly wrote:
>
> > >
> > 'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
> > criminal organisation in the world.
>
> What kind of _bullshit_ is that? The military is a "criminal
> organization"? Care to provide evidence for you spurious claim?
Protection racket and murder, what wonderfully wholesome activities.
> I _really_ don't appreciate being called a criminal, by you or anyone
> else
No one appreciate it, not even the criminals.
--
a.a atheist #1172 sXe BAAWA
"The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes
to blind you from the Truth. That humans are slaves."
- The Matrix
Fight War, not Wars.
Anarchist's Manifesto
http://www.tigerden.com/~berios/anarchist-manifesto.html
DarkAngel
> I _did_, however, put my own ass on the line (as did Danny) to work for
> the defense of my country. In what way is that criminal?
Kill one man, you're a murderer. Kill thousands, and you're a conqueror. Kill them
all, and you're a God.
> Get this straight: In the U.S. and Australia, the military is a tool of
> the government. If you don't like what your government does with it's
> tools, then change your fucking government.
Or get rid of it entirely.
--
a.a atheist #1172 sXe BAAWA
"The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes
to blind you from the Truth. That humans are slaves."
- The Matrix
Fight War, Not Wars.
Aaron
>
> Aaron wrote:
>
> > I _did_, however, put my own ass on the line (as did Danny) to work for
> > the defense of my country. In what way is that criminal?
>
> Kill one man, you're a murderer.
Maybe, maybe not. Like most other moral judgements, this is subjective.
> Kill thousands, and you're a conqueror. Kill them
> all, and you're a God.
And your cliche is worn-out.
I've never killed anyone. But the possibility has been there a number
of times in my life - it's not something that I ever want to do, but I
have been in two situations where I was willing to sacrifice my personal
freedom (by going to jail for taking a life) to avoid being treated in a
fashion that I deemed unendurable. By my way of viewing things, I was
morally correct. I'm just glad that the other person in both situations
backed down.
> > Get this straight: In the U.S. and Australia, the military is a tool of
> > the government. If you don't like what your government does with it's
> > tools, then change your fucking government.
>
> Or get rid of it entirely.
Yep. I was in the military before becoming a libertarian. I certainly
wouldn't be sad to see the governments of the world die away.
Aaron
>
> Aaron wrote:
>
> > Peter Kelly wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > 'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
> > > criminal organisation in the world.
> >
> > What kind of _bullshit_ is that? The military is a "criminal
> > organization"? Care to provide evidence for you spurious claim?
>
> Protection racket and murder, what wonderfully wholesome activities.
And your evidence that _I've_ done these things is? Again, you are
assuming that your morals fit all situations.
C'mon - put up or shut up. Show me your evidence.
> > I _really_ don't appreciate being called a criminal, by you or anyone
> > else
>
> No one appreciate it, not even the criminals.
It sounds to me that you are calling me a criminal. What part of your
moral system did I violate?
I'm assuming that, as an anarchist, you don't hold with any laws other
than your own (I've no probleme with that) - where did _I_ violate
them. More to the point what are _you_ going to _do_ about it?
Danny Mac
Peter Kelly <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
370C51FF2E4...@mail.chariot.net.au...
>On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:49:55 -0400 that most illustrious and gifted writer
>of our times Danny Mac<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> did
>eloquently compose:
>
>is a brutal hierarchy and organised hierarchies do more harm to other
>people than any normal criminal can. What makes the army "right" in what
>they do is might.
You're forgetting that organized hierarchies can also create more good in
the world than an individual can. You're also forgetting that war seems to
be a part of human nature.
>>
>> Hint: If you don't like it, then change it (if you're American, that is.
>> Otherwise fuck off.
>
>No I have freedom of speech so I don't have to "fuck off". I am
>Australian but that makes no difference as armies everywhere are the
>same. For eg the Australian army has been training an army unit of
Indonesian
>soldiers who have been "peace keeping" East Timor.
>
What do you think will happen if you decommission the militray, and
disassemble their bombs? Do you think the world will join hands and sing a
song of hope? LOL! No, you're going to get your sorry ass kicked if you do
that. Do you walk in dangerous neighborhoods with your hands tied behind
your back wearing a blindfold?
>> You should be thanking the U.S. military for saving you
>> from Communism for 40+ years.)
>
>Me? I don't thank anyone for Echelon set up by 5 countries and
>supervised by the NSA.
>>
>> Making outrageously stupid assertions like the one you just posted, while
>> providing no supporting evidence, will not help your cause.
>
>There is much that the US military has not saved the world from.
So you're suggesting we get involved in every single conflict?
Like
>the coup in Chile that installed Pinochet.
We were fighting communists, because communists were proven assholes.
Pinochet was the non-communist, that's why we supported him. We didn't know
he'd be an equally big asshole as the commies.
Or the coup in Indonesia in
>1965 that installed Suharto. After that one 1/2 million people were
>murdered. These included a list of 7,000 supplied by the CIA (part of
>the military) to Suharto. The bloodletting in Central America in
>Guatemala and Nicaragua with US assistance.
Don't know about Indonesia, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of money is was
to prevent them from falling to a brutal communist regime.
BTW, that's exactly why we were involved in Central America, too. Perhaps
you would have preferred communism to spread?
They did stop 2 million
>Vietnamese from dying out of 30 million. Vietnam had agent orange poured
>onto its' fields and forests and today Vietnam has the highest rate of
>co-joined twins in the world. But of course the US army can not be blamed
for
>anything because they are the "goodies".
Do you understand that it was a fucking war? Do you understand that many
freedom loving people from Vietnam have immigrated to the US? Of course you
don't. Nitwit.
>>
>> And again, before attempting to list these crimes, remember where the
buck
>> stops (the American people).
>>
>I know. "I was only following orders". Why has the US refused to sign an
>agreement for an International Human Rights Court? Is the US expecting
>to do more Chiles in the future?
>
Well, there you have it. The US should sign this agreement. On this, we
agree.
----
Danny Mac
#1516
Danny Mac
Petteri Sulonen <Petteri...@helsinki.DIE.SPAM.DIE.fi> wrote in message
Petteri.Sulonen-...@kaurakeksi.in.helsinki.fi...
>
>> >'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
>> >criminal organisation in the world.
>> >
>> commander-in-chief elected by the *people*, and from a civilian secretary
of
>> defense appointed by the president.
>
>I understand he was referring to armies in general, not the US one in
>particular (although its record isn't as lily-white as some Americans
>would like to believe). What in the world were they thinking of when they
>started that totally pointless and obviously disastrous air campaign in
>Kosovo, for one thing (of course, the Brits, French, and Germans bear a
>large chunk of responsibility for that too).
>
The point was to prevent the Serbs from destroying the ethnic Albanians in
Kosovo. There have been reports of concentration camps run by the Serbs.
Milosevic had an offer -- withdraw your troops from Kosovo or be bombed. He
preferrs to be bombed.
Allowing the ethnic Albanians to be slaughtered is unconscionable. That's
why NATO is there.
>> Hint: If you don't like it, then change it (if you're American, that is.
>> Otherwise fuck off. You should be thanking the U.S. military for saving
you
>> from Communism for 40+ years.)
>
>Thank you, US military, for saving us from Communism for 40+ years.
>
>That line is getting kinda old, though. "We get to do what we want because
>we saved your asses from Communism, so shut the fuck up" doesn't sound
>very... democratic? Isn't that what the US is supposedly protecting?
>
You completely ignored the part where I told Kelly to change the system if
he didn't like it. I explained the process of how the system can be
changed. I can do little more for you people.
>> Making outrageously stupid assertions like the one you just posted, while
>> providing no supporting evidence, will not help your cause.
>
>It looked like me to be a statement of opinion -- and one that he's
>perfectly willing to defend, if asked to. If he doesn't want to, I can
>take a shot. ;-)
>
>> And again, before attempting to list these crimes, remember where the
buck
>> stops (the American people).
>
>You're pretty naive if you think that's who's running America (on the
>federal level at least) these days.
>
Sure, campaign money plays a part in shaping gov't policy, but so what? Or
better yet, do you have an alternative solution that doesn't trample upon
the 1st amendment?
----
Danny Mac
#1516
Leonard Timmons
> [cut] What in the world were they thinking of when they
> started that totally pointless and obviously disastrous air campaign in
> Kosovo, for one thing (of course, the Brits, French, and Germans bear a
> large chunk of responsibility for that too).
The issue is that as an organization NATO acted *way* too late.
The battle over Kosovo was already lost. That's why NATO bombed.
The fact that Milosevic could achieve his aims was already apparent.
That's why Milosevic ignored the threat of bombing. The bombing
could not prevent him from achieving his goals. NATO knew this.
Now they are trying to show him what happens when they get pissed
off. You should expect a prolonged and vicious bombing campaign
that may lead to the starvation and death of a good number of
Serbs. It is our intent to prove to the Serb leadership that we
are greater bastards than they are. And we are.
-leonard
Frank Wustner
> st...@BAAWA.com.au (Stix) wrote:
> > <screen goes wavy as we cut to a Stixian handling of the situation>
> > "Yeah yeah, so she sucked my dick -- big fucking deal. How can you
> > blame me? Have you copped a load of the size of the bitch's lips? I
> > mean, she's got some BIG ASSED LIPS for cryin' out loud and she can
> > suck a golf ball through a garden hose -- but so what? Do you want me
> > to play Prez, or do you want to whine about me getting blown? What??
> > You want to whine?? Oh for fuck sake! Ok then, here ya go! Here's a
> > goddamn video of the blowjob in question for you to jerk-off over, you
> > boring pack of nosey, no-life, who's-sucking-whose-dick-obsessed
> > wankers -- find some other sucker (or is that 'suckee'?) for
> > President; I'm outta here."
> > :)
> I say: forget the constitution! Stix for President! At least he'd be
> consistently entertaining!
WHAT?!?!?!?! HAVE SOME DIRTY FOREIGNER IN THE OVAL OFFICE?!?!?!?!
.....Actually, that would probably be better than any of the dirty
natives that are currently up for the job. He's got my vote! ^_^
--
The Deadly Nightshade
http://members.tripod.com/~deadly_nightshade
|-----------------------------------|
|"Advice is a form of nostalgia. |
|Dispensing it means fishing the |
|past from the disposal, dusting it |
|off, cleaning up the ugly parts, |
|and recycling it for more than it |
|was worth." Baz Loren |
|-----------------------------------|
| Atheist #119 |
| Knight of BAAWA! |
| change all 'u's to 'i's for email |
|-----------------------------------|
Danny Mac
Leonard Timmons <ltim...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
370D5352...@mindspring.com...
Of course if NATO started bombing upon hearing the first rumor of Serb
atrocities in Kosovo, they'd be assholes for jumping in too soon, wouldn't
they?
Your idea of giving up on the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo isn't a
particularly kind one, IMHO.
----
Danny Mac
#1516
Tukla
wrote:
> In article <370BB50EB4...@mail.chariot.net.au>, Peter Kelly
> <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:45:40 -0400 that most illustrious and gifted writer
> > of our times Danny Mac<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> did
> > eloquently compose:
> >
> > >
> > > I got into deep shit for kissing a female while in basic. I was lucky I
> > > didn't get kicked out entirely. All male/female "relationships" are
> > > forbidden, again because there is no room for such activity and you don't
> > > want recruits to become obsessed with sex and love and have their minds not
> > > be on killing.
> > >
> > 'Make war not love' could be the motto of the army - the largest
> > criminal organisation in the world.
>
> They're bigger than the Catholic Church? There's a shock! Now if you're
> talking about arsenal sizes, OK (maybe)...
The Catholic Church has an omnipotent deity on their side! You just
can't get a bigger arsenal than *that*. <g>
> Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
> Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
> http://home.att.net/~jehdjh
>
> **************************************************
> The unexamined life is not worth living.
> - Socrates
>
> Nothing works like prayer!
> Corallary:
> Prayer works like nothing! Exactly like it!
> - me
> **************************************************
-- Tukla, Eater of Theists
atheist #1347
Director, EAC Animoid Shocktroop Division (a.k.a. the Rat Patrol)
Tukla
> hmm
> respect them a bit more than some asshole who calls himself a good Xtian,
> gets elected president, then fucks an intern.
>
> :)
Feh. Sounds like he was just behaving like a *typical* church-going
Christian to me.
> Stix <st...@BAAWA.com.au> wrote in message
> news:370e8448...@news.ozemail.com.au...
> >Jack Mott posted the following to alt.atheism:
> >
> >>at leats shes not a salad bar christian
> >>She believes in the bible
> >>it says masturbating is a no no
> >>she laid down the law.
> >>have some respect for the hard core morons
> >
> >Uh huh. So by the same standard we should also respect the Jehovah's
> >Witnesses who let their children die rather than permit them to
> >receive a blood transfusion?
> >
> >Respect? For MINDLESS FUCKING BLEATERS AND THE IDIOTIC DOGSHIT FUCKING
> >CRAP THEY FORCE UPON THEIR CHILDREN??
> >
> >Not on your fucking life.
> >
> >Stix
> >~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
> >"Christianity has a vested interest in human misery."
> >~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Mr Douglas, Pstychologist
Stix <st...@BAAWA.com.au> wrote in article
<370d2038...@news.ozemail.com.au>...
> <screen goes wavy as we cut to a Stixian handling of the situation>
>
> "Yeah yeah, so she sucked my dick -- big fucking deal. How can you
> blame me? Have you copped a load of the size of the bitch's lips? I
> mean, she's got some BIG ASSED LIPS for cryin' out loud and she can
> suck a golf ball through a garden hose -- but so what? Do you want me
> to play Prez, or do you want to whine about me getting blown? What??
> You want to whine?? Oh for fuck sake! Ok then, here ya go! Here's a
> goddamn video of the blowjob in question for you to jerk-off over, you
> boring pack of nosey, no-life, who's-sucking-whose-dick-obsessed
> wankers -- find some other sucker (or is that 'suckee'?) for
> President; I'm outta here."
>
Ahem.. As President Stix' chief of staff, I'd like to reiterate exactly
what the President said here..
while it may appear that he admitted that Ms Biglipinsky sucked his dick..
he was really saying the economy appeared to be heading into a sucky
period, but our best economist, Dick found a way to give you all a big tax
refund, thus allowing you to buy more golf balls and garden hoses.. He
cried out loud at the possiblity to blow the public away with such news.
Even the White house dog, the first bitch, whined in excitement. We are
releasing a Video that is, so far, unapproved by the religious right, but
that describes a new jobs program blow by blow, as well as one on how to
get Jerks off your back. Also... in regards to the nations drilling
unions, snuff packagers, euthanists, Christian activists.. now is your time
to nominate your candidates for election.. Thankyou.
again.. big tax refunds.. Vote Stix.
mrD.
Petteri Sulonen
<ltim...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Petteri Sulonen wrote:
> > [cut] What in the world were they thinking of when they
> > started that totally pointless and obviously disastrous air campaign in
> > Kosovo, for one thing (of course, the Brits, French, and Germans bear a
> > large chunk of responsibility for that too).
>
> The issue is that as an organization NATO acted *way* too late.
> The battle over Kosovo was already lost. That's why NATO bombed.
> The fact that Milosevic could achieve his aims was already apparent.
> That's why Milosevic ignored the threat of bombing. The bombing
> could not prevent him from achieving his goals. NATO knew this.
> Now they are trying to show him what happens when they get pissed
> off. You should expect a prolonged and vicious bombing campaign
> that may lead to the starvation and death of a good number of
> Serbs. It is our intent to prove to the Serb leadership that we
> are greater bastards than they are. And we are.
Another issue is that you can't win a war like that by just an air
campaign. In fact, I'm quite sceptical about your being able to win a war
like that by _any_ means -- after all, the Balkans is where guerrilla
warfare was _invented_!
One thing that's really struck me about the Kosovo crisis is the strange
illusion of omnipotence that the West (led by the US, of course) is
suffering from ever since the Gulf War and the collapse of Communism. It's
like we think that there's no wrong we can't right, and it's only a
question of whether we want to. A small dose of humility would do us all
good; to accept that there are simply some things we can do very little
about. That kind of approach to Kosovo might actually have worked, too.
I'm also rather disgusted by the warped form that war has taken these
days. Before, military casualties were acceptable, civilian ones were not.
Nowadays much of the time the tens of thousands of dead, wounded, or
otherwise suffering among the refugees get minimal coverage compared to
the pilot that was shot down but made it back -- or the three American
boys captured by the Serbs -- one of whom MAY HAVE BEEN BEAT UP! Oh my
GAWD!
"Risking life and limb" indeed. It seems that the US armed forces are the
safest place to be in a crisis these days.
Tchah,
Sleepy
>In article <37095a50....@news.insync.net>,
>firewevr...@insync.net (erikc) wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:22:04 -0500 (CDT)
>> Meggi...@webtv.net (Mark House) wrote:
>> -- origin: alt.atheism:
>> >|Re: caught masturbating
>> >|
>> >| My parents told me that every time I masturbated, it would take a year
>> >|off of my life...... apparently I was gonna live to be a million years
>> >|old.... sheesh!
>>
>> My father would tell me that if I masturbated, it would make hair grow
>> on my palms. If he were right, today I would look like a werewolf.
>> ;-)
My experience (from riding a bicycle a lot :) is that repetitive
rubbing of an area of the skin *removes hair.
So, it's those people with *hairless palms who have been...er...
(Sorry it took so long to reply - I'm typing this with my nose ! ;^)
[snip]
---
Sleepy aa #1385
Cut the string to email me.
Petteri Sulonen
<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> The point was to prevent the Serbs from destroying the ethnic Albanians in
> Kosovo. There have been reports of concentration camps run by the Serbs.
> Milosevic had an offer -- withdraw your troops from Kosovo or be bombed. He
> preferrs to be bombed.
>
> Allowing the ethnic Albanians to be slaughtered is unconscionable. That's
> why NATO is there.
But it's OBVIOUS that bombing won't achieve the stated objective of the
interventionists -- stopping or preventing the ethnic cleansing being done
by Milosevic! All it does is draw Nato into a quagmire with no easy way
out, civilian casualties (both Serb and Albanian), a huge waste of money,
one of the biggest humanitarian catastrophe in recent years -- all to keep
up the "credibility" of Nato. Nuts.
Of course it's "unconscionable". However, in the pink haze of a delusion
of omnipotence that the West, and especially the US, lives in, nobody's
even bothered asking the question "CAN we do anything about it?" If _that_
had been asked, and _realistic_ options studied, such as putting
Yugoslavia under diplomatic and economic embargo indefinitely, with a door
left ajar for discussions, I think everything could have gone otherwise.
And I've been saying so all along (although, unfortunately, not on paper
nor online).
> >> Hint: If you don't like it, then change it (if you're American, that is.
> >> Otherwise fuck off. You should be thanking the U.S. military for saving
> you
> >> from Communism for 40+ years.)
> >
> >Thank you, US military, for saving us from Communism for 40+ years.
> >
> >That line is getting kinda old, though. "We get to do what we want because
> >we saved your asses from Communism, so shut the fuck up" doesn't sound
> >very... democratic? Isn't that what the US is supposedly protecting?
>
> You completely ignored the part where I told Kelly to change the system if
> he didn't like it. I explained the process of how the system can be
> changed. I can do little more for you people.
He's Australian. What can _he_ do to change the US system, other than
discuss it on the Internet?
> >You're pretty naive if you think that's who's running America (on the
> >federal level at least) these days.
>
> Sure, campaign money plays a part in shaping gov't policy, but so what? Or
> better yet, do you have an alternative solution that doesn't trample upon
> the 1st amendment?
Would be too long to fit here. I recommend taking looking away from your
own navel for an instant. There are plenty of democracies in the world
that are less dysfunctional than the US one, although the "perfect" one
doesn't exist. I especially recommend taking a look at Germany. And maybe
the Nordic countries, although we, being small countries, don't face many
of the problems that you, a big one, do.
Petteri Sulonen
<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Of course if NATO started bombing upon hearing the first rumor of Serb
> atrocities in Kosovo, they'd be assholes for jumping in too soon, wouldn't
> they?
>
> Your idea of giving up on the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo isn't a
> particularly kind one, IMHO.
Since you seem to think that bombing is a great solution to any
humanitarian problem, maybe you should consider bombing China, North
Korea, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and about a ton of others.
How come you're so worried about the Albanians, but don't give a tinker's
cuss for the Kurds? Both are Moslem peoples, and both are being pretty
brutally oppressed by the main population. Oh, I forgot. Turkey's a Nato
country. Silly me.
You're a hypocrite.
-- Petteri
PS. It's not a question of "giving up" on them. It's a question of trying
to find an approach that _works_ as opposed to giving your generals a
chance to show off their fancy new hardware. "Risking life and limb to
defend your country", pfah.
maff91
Petteri...@helsinki.DIE.SPAM.DIE.fi (Petteri Sulonen) wrote:
>In article <7ejdo8$3a2$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Danny Mac"
Are the Swedes still bombing Åland? :-)
>
>-- Petteri
Thomas P.
Petteri...@helsinki.DIE.SPAM.DIE.fi (Petteri Sulonen) wrote:
>In article <7ejdo8$3a2$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Danny Mac"
><d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> The point was to prevent the Serbs from destroying the ethnic Albanians in
>> Kosovo. There have been reports of concentration camps run by the Serbs.
>> Milosevic had an offer -- withdraw your troops from Kosovo or be bombed. He
>> preferrs to be bombed.
>>
>> Allowing the ethnic Albanians to be slaughtered is unconscionable. That's
>> why NATO is there.
>
>But it's OBVIOUS that bombing won't achieve the stated objective of the
>interventionists -- stopping or preventing the ethnic cleansing being done
>by Milosevic! All it does is draw Nato into a quagmire with no easy way
>out, civilian casualties (both Serb and Albanian), a huge waste of money,
>one of the biggest humanitarian catastrophe in recent years -- all to keep
>up the "credibility" of Nato. Nuts.
>
I also have very serious doubts about bombing alone. It is not
obvious, however, that it won't work. Sending in soldiers to fight
Serbia on the ground should be the last resort but may be required in
the end.
It is not just to keep up the credibility of Nato - although that is
also important. Close to a million people are being forced out of
their homes and have no place to go; this alone is a very dangerous
situation. It should also be remembered that Kosovo is not the only
territory claimed by Serbia. Even within Nato there are conflicting
interests in the Balkans going back to the days of the Turkish Empire.
Practically speaking the stability of all of Europe and very possibly
the world is threatened. We are on the verge of a catastrophe; any
number of extremely nasty consequences are distinct possibilities.
Something must be done; none of the choices will be "good".
>Of course it's "unconscionable". However, in the pink haze of a delusion
>of omnipotence that the West, and especially the US, lives in, nobody's
>even bothered asking the question "CAN we do anything about it?" If _that_
>had been asked, and _realistic_ options studied, such as putting
>Yugoslavia under diplomatic and economic embargo indefinitely, with a door
>left ajar for discussions, I think everything could have gone otherwise.
>And I've been saying so all along (although, unfortunately, not on paper
>nor online).
Yugoslavia is under an embargo. It hasn't stopped anything, and now
there is very little time before total chaos dominates throughout the
region. If feelings of omnipotence were the problem Europe and the US
would not have hesitated in deciding to intervene in Yugoslavia for
the past 10 years.
snip
Thomas P.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
Thomas P.
Petteri...@helsinki.DIE.SPAM.DIE.fi (Petteri Sulonen) wrote:
>In article <370D5352...@mindspring.com>, Leonard Timmons
><ltim...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Petteri Sulonen wrote:
>> > [cut] What in the world were they thinking of when they
>> > started that totally pointless and obviously disastrous air campaign in
>> > Kosovo, for one thing (of course, the Brits, French, and Germans bear a
>> > large chunk of responsibility for that too).
>>
>> The issue is that as an organization NATO acted *way* too late.
>> The battle over Kosovo was already lost. That's why NATO bombed.
>> The fact that Milosevic could achieve his aims was already apparent.
>> That's why Milosevic ignored the threat of bombing. The bombing
>> could not prevent him from achieving his goals. NATO knew this.
>> Now they are trying to show him what happens when they get pissed
>> off. You should expect a prolonged and vicious bombing campaign
>> that may lead to the starvation and death of a good number of
>> Serbs. It is our intent to prove to the Serb leadership that we
>> are greater bastards than they are. And we are.
>
other issue is that you can't win a war like that by just an air
>campaign. In fact, I'm quite sceptical about your being able to win a war
>like that by _any_ means -- after all, the Balkans is where guerrilla
>warfare was _invented_!
>
Guerilla soldiers (to paraphrase Mao) are fish and peasants are the
sea. In Kosovo the peasants (people) are not Serbian. It is the
Serbians who will be fighting guerilla soldiers not Nato.
>One thing that's really struck me about the Kosovo crisis is the strange
>illusion of omnipotence that the West (led by the US, of course) is
>suffering from ever since the Gulf War and the collapse of Communism. It's
>like we think that there's no wrong we can't right, and it's only a
>question of whether we want to. A small dose of humility would do us all
>good; to accept that there are simply some things we can do very little
>about. That kind of approach to Kosovo might actually have worked, too.
>
As I mentioned in an earlier post, if the West thought it was
omnipotent, it would have intervened much earlier.
>I'm also rather disgusted by the warped form that war has taken these
>days. Before, military casualties were acceptable, civilian ones were not.
>Nowadays much of the time the tens of thousands of dead, wounded, or
>otherwise suffering among the refugees get minimal coverage compared to
>the pilot that was shot down but made it back -- or the three American
>boys captured by the Serbs -- one of whom MAY HAVE BEEN BEAT UP! Oh my
>GAWD!
>
>"Risking life and limb" indeed. It seems that the US armed forces are the
>safest place to be in a crisis these days.
>
>Tchah,
I don't know what the media in Finland is writing about, but the
coverage here is almost exclusively about the refugees.
>
>-- Petteri
>
>--
>"You know what? I'm happy." | EAC, Commissar
> -- Droopy | a.a #1442. BAAWA!
Thomas P.
Leonard Timmons
>
> Leonard Timmons <ltim...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> 370D5352...@mindspring.com...
> >The battle over Kosovo was already lost. That's why NATO bombed.
> >The fact that Milosevic could achieve his aims was already apparent.
> >That's why Milosevic ignored the threat of bombing. The bombing
> >could not prevent him from achieving his goals. NATO knew this.
> >Now they are trying to show him what happens when they get pissed
> >off. You should expect a prolonged and vicious bombing campaign
> >that may lead to the starvation and death of a good number of
> >Serbs. It is our intent to prove to the Serb leadership that we
> >are greater bastards than they are. And we are.
> >
>
> Of course if NATO started bombing upon hearing the first rumor of Serb
> atrocities in Kosovo, they'd be assholes for jumping in too soon, wouldn't
> they?
It is not possible to bomb Milosevic too soon. He's about to learn
that his thirteenth century attitudes about how war should be conducted
is going to land him in the thirteenth century. He's about to learn
that the most civilized countries on earth treat uncivilized people
in uncivilized ways. If you behave in a civilized way toward
uncivilized people, you loose -- and the world as a whole becomes more
uncivilized. After we rip his guts out like the squealing pig that
he is, the prospects for a civilized world improve greatly.
> Your idea of giving up on the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo isn't a
> particularly kind one, IMHO.
This whole exercise has very little to do with the Albanians. It has
to do with regional stability. This is why NATO is interested. If
Kosovo is liberated from Yugoslavia, then every little tribe will
want its own country. There's been too much of that already. Soon
each man will be a sovereign state!
-leonard
Leonard Timmons
> Another issue is that you can't win a war like that by just an air
> campaign. In fact, I'm quite sceptical about your being able to win a war
> like that by _any_ means -- after all, the Balkans is where guerrilla
> warfare was _invented_!
Winning wars is about logistics. He who has the better logistics over
the longest time wins. Bombing Yugoslavia is about destroying the
ability
of the Serbian army to supply itself. An army consumes a tremendous
amount
of resources. Cut off those resources -- even if you have to starve
the civilians -- and that army is easy pickings.
Were it up to me, I would carve out a small section of Kosovo and put
troops there. Milosevic could not fail to attack these troops. He
would therefore have to concentrate his forces and the planes would
rip them apart.
> One thing that's really struck me about the Kosovo crisis is the strange
> illusion of omnipotence that the West (led by the US, of course) is
> suffering from ever since the Gulf War and the collapse of Communism. It's
> like we think that there's no wrong we can't right, and it's only a
> question of whether we want to. A small dose of humility would do us all
> good; to accept that there are simply some things we can do very little
> about. That kind of approach to Kosovo might actually have worked, too.
I don't agree. You seem to have the mistaken impression that the
US is civilized. I live here, I know better. It is a serious mistake
to get us angry. Go to the video store and rent one of those
"Walking Tall" movies. That is us. Make no mistake. It's possible
that Clinton could screw this up and act like Jimmy Carter, but his
political fortunes makes that pretty much impossible.
> I'm also rather disgusted by the warped form that war has taken these
> days. Before, military casualties were acceptable, civilian ones were not.
> Nowadays much of the time the tens of thousands of dead, wounded, or
> otherwise suffering among the refugees get minimal coverage compared to
> the pilot that was shot down but made it back -- or the three American
> boys captured by the Serbs -- one of whom MAY HAVE BEEN BEAT UP! Oh my
> GAWD!
We have an all volunteer force. The army wants to kill, not die! They
want the other poor bastard to give *his* life for *his* country. I
think that's from Gen. Patton.
I think most Americans have written off the three captives. If they
are returned, they will have risen from the dead. And General Sherman
showed us that in order to defeat a guerrilla army, one has to make war
on the population at large. Once the population is starving, they will
not resupply the guerrillas. Again, logistics is the key to winning.
If the US determines that it cannot completely destroy Yugoslavia's
ability to resupply its forces, then the war will be over. Win or
loose.
> "Risking life and limb" indeed. It seems that the US armed forces are the
> safest place to be in a crisis these days.
I have a good number of people in my family who are in the Army.
I would *never* ask them to fight fair in wartime. Fight them when
they are starving. Its the only civilized thing to do.
-leonard
Michael Moore
Before the mass evacuation and exucution of ethnic Albanians in
Kosovo, they made up 90% of the population in Kosovo, with the
other 10% being Serbs. Kosovo should indeed be an independent
nation. Had it not been for Serbia's intervention, there
wouldn't be a problem in Kosovo. Serbia has no rights to
Kosovo.
--
Michael Moore
#1446
ClayeSkye
#4
ClayeSkye
"I still believe that I cannot be saved" Smashing Pumpkins - Bullet with
Butterfly Wings
Charles R Ward
<d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> Fritz <Fr...@someplace.net> wrote in message
> Fritz-06049...@stanh22.planet.net...
> >In article <37095a50....@news.insync.net>,
> >firewevr...@insync.net (erikc) wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:22:04 -0500 (CDT)
> >> Meggi...@webtv.net (Mark House) wrote:
> >> -- origin: alt.atheism:
> >> >|Re: caught masturbating
> >> >|
> >> >| My parents told me that every time I masturbated, it would take a
> year
> >> >|off of my life...... apparently I was gonna live to be a million years
> >> >|old.... sheesh!
> >>
> >> My father would tell me that if I masturbated, it would make hair grow
> >> on my palms. If he were right, today I would look like a werewolf.
> >> ;-)
> >
> >According to one of the spiels given in US military indoctrination to new
> >male recruits (as related by someone who heard it firsthand while standing
> >at attention), 95% of all men masturbate, and the other 5% are liars.
> >
>
> I find that incredibly hard to believe that a drill sergent would say that.
> Masterbation is frowned upon in basic training -- too many people and not
> enough space. Not to mention the fact that the military still has some
> pretty old-fashioned standards of behavior. I heard of a guy who got caught
> in the stairwell and the drill sergent made him stand in front of the entire
> company (150 men and women) to be ridiculed. Pretty embarrassing
> stuff...(and no, it wasn't me).
>
> I got into deep shit for kissing a female while in basic. I was lucky I
> didn't get kicked out entirely. All male/female "relationships" are
> forbidden, again because there is no room for such activity and you don't
> want recruits to become obsessed with sex and love and have their minds not
> be on killing.
>
> I am not saying your friend is making the story up. No pearls of wisdom
> from a drill sergents mouth would ever surprise me. I'm just saying that
> masturbation is not military policy!
>
> ----
> Danny Mac
> #1516
Danny
I don't remember the details, but I heard that when I
was in the Navy, about 30 years ago. It may not have
been in bootcamp.
I am curious if females were told the same. I once
asked my ex-wife if she ever 'played' with herself.
My one data point is that ladies say they don't, I have
no knowledge of if they do.
Charles R Ward #1479
Leonard Timmons
>
> Interesting that this started out as a thread about masterbation.
Nothing's changed! LOL!
-leonard
DarkAngel
> Before the mass evacuation and exucution of ethnic Albanians in
> Kosovo, they made up 90% of the population in Kosovo, with the
> other 10% being Serbs.
You of course realise that at the start of the century Kosovo was almost entirely
Serbian and that the current situation was due to a massive influx of illegal
immigrants from Albania. This would be like Mexicans claiming that New Mexico or
Texas should become a separate country.
> Kosovo should indeed be an independent
> nation.
Then I wonder why Quebec's claims to independent nation status are rejected by
Americans and Canadian? Gotta love double-standards.
> Had it not been for Serbia's intervention, there
> wouldn't be a problem in Kosovo. Serbia has no rights to
> Kosovo.
I suppose the United States have no rights to California then.
Disclaimer: I certainly don't support Milosevic's actions, but I will not let
American half-truths and propaganda stay unchallenged. Killing people is killing
people, whether they are Albanians or Serbs.
--
a.a atheist #1172 sXe BAAWA
"The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes
to blind you from the Truth. That you are a slave."
maff91
wrote:
>Michael Moore wrote:
>
>> Before the mass evacuation and exucution of ethnic Albanians in
>> Kosovo, they made up 90% of the population in Kosovo, with the
>> other 10% being Serbs.
>
>You of course realise that at the start of the century Kosovo was almost entirely
>Serbian and that the current situation was due to a massive influx of illegal
>immigrants from Albania. This would be like Mexicans claiming that New Mexico or
>Texas should become a separate country.
What illegal immigrants? The present situation arose because Milosevic
abrogated the autonomy of Kosovo and incorporated it into Serbia, in
1992.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/map/yugoslavia/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/special_report/1998/kosovo/newsid_305000/305849.stm
>
>> Kosovo should indeed be an independent
>> nation.
>
>Then I wonder why Quebec's claims to independent nation status are rejected by
>Americans and Canadian? Gotta love double-standards.
If Quebec voted for independence then what can Canada or US do?
DarkAngel
> What illegal immigrants? The present situation arose because Milosevic
> abrogated the autonomy of Kosovo and incorporated it into Serbia, in
> 1992.
Maff, the whole ugly thing dates from way before 1992.
> >Then I wonder why Quebec's claims to independent nation status are
rejected by
> >Americans and Canadian? Gotta love double-standards.
>
> If Quebec voted for independence then what can Canada or US do?
Engineer massive electoral fraud by shipping a bus-load of Ontarians over
the border on referendum and elections days to vote against separatists
because there's no voter identification card to show that they're not
supposed to vote. Give Canadian voter status to more immigrants on that day
than in a month, while asking them to check a little box (on a voting
bulletin, but that they don't know), especially if they don't speak a word
of French or English.
Train troops in a simulated scenario where Canada has to fight a separatist
government and make sure this exercise is 'accidentally' leaked to the
media to show that you're not kidding around while reminding them of the
1970s October Crisis.
While you are at it, make sure that about 90% of Canadian newspapers are
under the control of Conrad Black, a voraciously anti-French businessman,
and publish a non-stop stream of Quebec defamating material.
Bitch about the French 'nazis' who made French the official language
through Bill 101, but conveniently 'forget' that Ontario has a law against
French education in schools.
Oops, that's already been done. Guess they'll have to bomb us then.
DarkAngel
> under the control of Conrad Black
Hmm, sorry, make that 56%.
ClayeSkye
>
>Engineer massive electoral fraud by shipping a bus-load of Ontarians over
>the border on referendum and elections days to vote against separatists
>because there's no voter identification card to show that they're not
>supposed to vote. Give Canadian voter status to more immigrants on that day
>than in a month, while asking them to check a little box (on a voting
>bulletin, but that they don't know), especially if they don't speak a word
>of French or English.
>
<snip>
Someone sounds a little paranoid.
You do realize that The X-Files is fiction, right?
Michael Moore
> Then I wonder why Quebec's claims to independent nation status are rejected by
> Americans and Canadian? Gotta love double-standards.
The PQ has *failed* to win a majority vote for sovereignty in the
last referendum. So where is the double standard. FWIW, I think
the Candian Government should allow Quebec to opt out of Canada,
if a majority of people there want this.
> I suppose the United States have no rights to California then.
Since when did the residents of California wish fo opt out of the
USA?
> Disclaimer: I certainly don't support Milosevic's actions, but I will not let
> American half-truths and propaganda stay unchallenged. Killing people is killing
> people, whether they are Albanians or Serbs.
You seem to be willing to let the total fabrications created by
Serb nationalists go unchallenged. Talk about double standards!
--
Michael Moore
#1446
Michael Moore
>
> maff91 wrote:
>
> > What illegal immigrants? The present situation arose because Milosevic
> > abrogated the autonomy of Kosovo and incorporated it into Serbia, in
> > 1992.
>
> Maff, the whole ugly thing dates from way before 1992.
Please do not repeat the story of what happenned in the year
1389.
> > >Then I wonder why Quebec's claims to independent nation status are
> rejected by
> > >Americans and Canadian? Gotta love double-standards.
> >
> > If Quebec voted for independence then what can Canada or US do?
>
> Engineer massive electoral fraud by shipping a bus-load of Ontarians over
> the border on referendum and elections days to vote against separatists
> because there's no voter identification card to show that they're not
> supposed to vote. Give Canadian voter status to more immigrants on that day
> than in a month, while asking them to check a little box (on a voting
> bulletin, but that they don't know), especially if they don't speak a word
> of French or English.
>
> Train troops in a simulated scenario where Canada has to fight a separatist
> government and make sure this exercise is 'accidentally' leaked to the
> media to show that you're not kidding around while reminding them of the
> 1970s October Crisis.
The ratio of French-Canadian personnel to others in the Canadain
military is far more then the ratio of French-Canadians to others
in Canada. I had alot of French-Canadian friends when I was in
the Canadian military. Do you really believe that Canadian
soldiers would be willing to fight against Quebecers? The action
of the federal government (headed by a French-Canadian
Prime-Minister) in the 1970's October Crisis was precipitated by
murder committed by FLQ activists--these activists were nothing
more than terrorists.
> While you are at it, make sure that about 90% of Canadian newspapers are
> under the control of Conrad Black, a voraciously anti-French businessman,
> and publish a non-stop stream of Quebec defamating material.
I never read a newspaper owned by Conrad Black (too right-wing
for me).
> Bitch about the French 'nazis' who made French the official language
> through Bill 101, but conveniently 'forget' that Ontario has a law against
> French education in schools.
There exists all French (language) public schools in Ontario. Of
course, the numbers must warrant them. As far as the "English"
elementary schools go, there is far too much French language
being forced on the students. The French language, as
interesting as it may be, is of no great asset to most
non-francophones. Many of these folk would do better to improve
their english and math skills.
--
Michael Moore
#1446
maff91
wrote:
>maff91 wrote:
>
>> What illegal immigrants? The present situation arose because Milosevic
>> abrogated the autonomy of Kosovo and incorporated it into Serbia, in
>> 1992.
>
>Maff, the whole ugly thing dates from way before 1992.
True. That's why Tito always balanced various interests so that they
won't be at each others's throats. Milosevic let the nationalist genie
out and he's paying the prize.
>
>> >Then I wonder why Quebec's claims to independent nation status are
>rejected by
>> >Americans and Canadian? Gotta love double-standards.
>>
>> If Quebec voted for independence then what can Canada or US do?
>
>Engineer massive electoral fraud by shipping a bus-load of Ontarians over
>the border on referendum and elections days to vote against separatists
>because there's no voter identification card to show that they're not
>supposed to vote. Give Canadian voter status to more immigrants on that day
I'm not sure about this.
>than in a month, while asking them to check a little box (on a voting
>bulletin, but that they don't know), especially if they don't speak a word
>of French or English.
>
>Train troops in a simulated scenario where Canada has to fight a separatist
>government and make sure this exercise is 'accidentally' leaked to the
>media to show that you're not kidding around while reminding them of the
>1970s October Crisis.
1990's are not the 1970's.
>
>While you are at it, make sure that about 90% of Canadian newspapers are
>under the control of Conrad Black, a voraciously anti-French businessman,
>and publish a non-stop stream of Quebec defamating material.
So why not counter him on the internet? Anyway, I don't think anyone
in the Canadian government is that worried about Quebec going her own
way. They're more worried that Western provinces will take the chance
to detach themselves from Canada.
>
>Bitch about the French 'nazis' who made French the official language
Why should I bitch about it? Learning another language is good.
>through Bill 101, but conveniently 'forget' that Ontario has a law against
>French education in schools.
>
>Oops, that's already been done. Guess they'll have to bomb us then.
Nah! It's better to save the bombs for Milosevic. Anyway, I think all
nationalism is on the way out. It's only a matter of time.
Petteri Sulonen
tonyho...@post6.tele.dk (Thomas P.) wrote:
> >But it's OBVIOUS that bombing won't achieve the stated objective of the
> >interventionists -- stopping or preventing the ethnic cleansing being done
> >by Milosevic! All it does is draw Nato into a quagmire with no easy way
> >out, civilian casualties (both Serb and Albanian), a huge waste of money,
> >one of the biggest humanitarian catastrophe in recent years -- all to keep
> >up the "credibility" of Nato. Nuts.
> >
> I also have very serious doubts about bombing alone. It is not
> obvious, however, that it won't work. Sending in soldiers to fight
> Serbia on the ground should be the last resort but may be required in
> the end.
And might not work either. The Nato troops would be fighting a
well-equipped, well-motivated, very experienced force in very difficult
terrain -- that _they_ know, and the Nato doesn't. At best, it would be a
long and a hard war. At worst, it would be...
> It is not just to keep up the credibility of Nato - although that is
> also important. Close to a million people are being forced out of
> their homes and have no place to go; this alone is a very dangerous
> situation. It should also be remembered that Kosovo is not the only
> territory claimed by Serbia. Even within Nato there are conflicting
> interests in the Balkans going back to the days of the Turkish Empire.
> Practically speaking the stability of all of Europe and very possibly
> the world is threatened. We are on the verge of a catastrophe; any
> number of extremely nasty consequences are distinct possibilities.
> Something must be done; none of the choices will be "good".
Kosovo isn't CLAIMED by Serbia. It's an internationally recognized PART of
Serbia. International law is a joke, but according to it what's happening
there is an internal Yugoslavian matter. (Which goes to show how sadly
lacking such laws are.)
We certainly are on the verge (or over the verge!) of a catastrophe. All
the more reason for treading lightly.
> >Of course it's "unconscionable". However, in the pink haze of a delusion
> >of omnipotence that the West, and especially the US, lives in, nobody's
> >even bothered asking the question "CAN we do anything about it?" If _that_
> >had been asked, and _realistic_ options studied, such as putting
> >Yugoslavia under diplomatic and economic embargo indefinitely, with a door
> >left ajar for discussions, I think everything could have gone otherwise.
> >And I've been saying so all along (although, unfortunately, not on paper
> >nor online).
>
> Yugoslavia is under an embargo. It hasn't stopped anything, and now
> there is very little time before total chaos dominates throughout the
> region. If feelings of omnipotence were the problem Europe and the US
> would not have hesitated in deciding to intervene in Yugoslavia for
> the past 10 years.
Libya finally released the Pan Am suspects. Embargoes take _time_. The
problems in the Balkans have been around for about 1000 years. A decade
more isn't much from that perspective. The military option in the Balkans
is the worst possible approach -- it's already triggered one world war,
remember?
If economic and diplomatic methods don't work, then I think all we should
do is sigh, square our shoulders, and take care of the refugees. I repeat:
bombing or attacking only worsens the situation.
Even worse is that it's a unilateral Nato-only operation. If it were
sanctioned by the UN, the repercussions would be much lighter. Now the
Russians are free to use all the well-worn pictures of the enemy. Did you
know that citizens of Nato countries currently in Russia aren't getting
their visas renewed, are being harassed and even physically threatened by
ordinary Russians?
To date, the bombing has achieved the following:
o A huge expenditure of money.
o A massive acceleration of the Serbs' repressive actions.
o An exodus of nearly 1,000,000 Albanians.
o A rise of rabid nationalism in Russia.
o A loss of credibility for Nato.
o The tearing down of the fragile security mechanism being built in
post-Cold War Europe.
And none of this was a surprise! The bombing has in no way helped the
Albanians, either!
Petteri Sulonen
maf...@nospam.my-dejanews.com (maff91) wrote:
> >Would be too long to fit here. I recommend taking looking away from your
> >own navel for an instant. There are plenty of democracies in the world
> >that are less dysfunctional than the US one, although the "perfect" one
> >doesn't exist. I especially recommend taking a look at Germany. And maybe
> >the Nordic countries, although we, being small countries, don't face many
> >of the problems that you, a big one, do.
>
> Are the Swedes still bombing Åland? :-)
<grin>
Nah. They stopped the campaign for Orthodox Easter.
-- Petteri
[PS. For the sarcasm-impaired, the above was sarcasm. The Swedes are
bombing nobody, but are instead a very pacifist people. The Ålanders are
quite happy too, what with all their special privileges and such. In fact,
they've separately sent some help to Kosovo and have offered to take
refugees. In other words, apart from being born in Åland, the only way to
live there these days is to be an Albanian refugee. You don't know how
special you are if you end up there!]
maff91
It isn't if gross violation of human rights takes place.
http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Issues_and_Causes/Human_Rights/
But they go cap in hand to the IMF to bail them out.
>
>To date, the bombing has achieved the following:
>
>o A huge expenditure of money.
>
>o A massive acceleration of the Serbs' repressive actions.
>
>o An exodus of nearly 1,000,000 Albanians.
>
>o A rise of rabid nationalism in Russia.
>
>o A loss of credibility for Nato.
>
>o The tearing down of the fragile security mechanism being built in
>post-Cold War Europe.
>
>And none of this was a surprise! The bombing has in no way helped the
>Albanians, either!
Similar arguments were advanced when Hitler invaded Poland.
>
>-- Petteri
Thomas P.
wrote:
>Michael Moore wrote:
>
>> Before the mass evacuation and exucution of ethnic Albanians in
>> Kosovo, they made up 90% of the population in Kosovo, with the
>> other 10% being Serbs.
>
>You of course realise that at the start of the century Kosovo was almost entirely
>Serbian and that the current situation was due to a massive influx of illegal
>immigrants from Albania. This would be like Mexicans claiming that New Mexico or
>Texas should become a separate country.
>
It must have been massive since 90% of the population is Albanian.
The comparison with Mexico is a bit difficult. It was the US that
took those territories from Mexico. The immigration was from the US
to Texas and New Mexico.
>> Kosovo should indeed be an independent
>> nation.
>
>Then I wonder why Quebec's claims to independent nation status are rejected by
>Americans and Canadian? Gotta love double-standards.
>
Quebec has a great deal of self-rule. It has never officially claimed
independence. The US has, up until now, supported Yugoslavian
soverignty over Kosovo and has been against independence.
>> Had it not been for Serbia's intervention, there
>> wouldn't be a problem in Kosovo. Serbia has no rights to
>> Kosovo.
>
>I suppose the United States have no rights to California then.
>
The United States has supported Yugoslavian soverignty.
>Disclaimer: I certainly don't support Milosevic's actions, but I will not let
>American half-truths and propaganda stay unchallenged. Killing people is killing
>people, whether they are Albanians or Serbs.
What American propaganda are you against?
>
>--
>a.a atheist #1172 sXe BAAWA
>
>"The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes
>to blind you from the Truth. That you are a slave."
> - The Matrix
>
>Fight War, Not Wars.
>
>Anarchist's Manifesto
>http://www.tigerden.com/~berios/anarchist-manifesto.html
>
>
>
Thomas P.
DarkAngel
> >While you are at it, make sure that about 90% of Canadian newspapers are
> >under the control of Conrad Black, a voraciously anti-French businessman,
> >and publish a non-stop stream of Quebec defamating material.
>
> So why not counter him on the internet?
We do. There are at least 2 newsgroups (soc.culture.quebec and qc.politique)
where posters refute such drivel daily.
Also, I was a little off with the 90% part. It's about 56%. 90% would be volume
of readers.
> >Bitch about the French 'nazis' who made French the official language
>
> Why should I bitch about it? Learning another language is good.
I was talking about Canada.
> >Oops, that's already been done. Guess they'll have to bomb us then.
>
> Nah! It's better to save the bombs for Milosevic. Anyway, I think all
> nationalism is on the way out. It's only a matter of time.
I certainly don't support nationalism or patriotism, but I oppose the
subversion of the people's will in Canada.
Thomas P.
What is happenning in Kosovo, according to intenational laws
recognized by Yugoslavia, are crimes against humanity. Practically
speaking, no matter what the law is, it is a matter of concern for, at
the very least, all of Europe.
>We certainly are on the verge (or over the verge!) of a catastrophe. All
>the more reason for treading lightly.
>
>> >Of course it's "unconscionable". However, in the pink haze of a delusion
>> >of omnipotence that the West, and especially the US, lives in, nobody's
>> >even bothered asking the question "CAN we do anything about it?" If _that_
>> >had been asked, and _realistic_ options studied, such as putting
>> >Yugoslavia under diplomatic and economic embargo indefinitely, with a door
>> >left ajar for discussions, I think everything could have gone otherwise.
>> >And I've been saying so all along (although, unfortunately, not on paper
>> >nor online).
>>
>> Yugoslavia is under an embargo. It hasn't stopped anything, and now
>> there is very little time before total chaos dominates throughout the
>> region. If feelings of omnipotence were the problem Europe and the US
>> would not have hesitated in deciding to intervene in Yugoslavia for
>> the past 10 years.
>
>Libya finally released the Pan Am suspects. Embargoes take _time_. The
>problems in the Balkans have been around for about 1000 years. A decade
>more isn't much from that perspective. The military option in the Balkans
>is the worst possible approach -- it's already triggered one world war,
>remember?
>
Yes I do remember. That is what a lot of people are worried about.
This is not on the same scale as two terrorists in Libya. A million
refugees running into the surrounding countries and to the rest of
Europe, the almost certain consequence of additional refugees when
Serbia decides to expand further, the increase of land claims by all
in the region (including members of Nato like Greece and Hungary) will
very likely lead to a very nasty war indeed. We can not wait ten
years.
>If economic and diplomatic methods don't work, then I think all we should
>do is sigh, square our shoulders, and take care of the refugees. I repeat:
>bombing or attacking only worsens the situation.
>
The countries of the Balkans can not handle the refugees, and many of
their citizens hate the refugees. Kosovo will not be the last land
grab or example of "ethnic cleansing". Serbia is not the only country
willing to engage in such activities in the Balkans if they see it can
be successful. The result will be many times worse than what we are
seeing now. Not only for the sake of the refugees but for the safety
of all of us, we have to stop it now.
snip
DarkAngel
> > > What illegal immigrants? The present situation arose because Milosevic
> > > abrogated the autonomy of Kosovo and incorporated it into Serbia, in
> > > 1992.
> >
> > Maff, the whole ugly thing dates from way before 1992.
>
> Please do not repeat the story of what happenned in the year
> 1389.
I'm speaking start of the 20th century, when Albanians entered Kosovo illegally
to flee Albania's repressive regime.
I personnally don't think this is any reason to kill people. As an anarchist,
I don't believe in immigration law. I am simply stating facts.
> The action
> of the federal government (headed by a French-Canadian
> Prime-Minister) in the 1970's October Crisis was precipitated by
> murder committed by FLQ activists--these activists were nothing
> more than terrorists.
A parallel could be drawn with Kosovo's Liberation Army.
Furthermore, the FLQ was only an excuse for the army to crack down on unions,
communists and other 'subversives'.
> > While you are at it, make sure that about 90% of Canadian newspapers are
> > under the control of Conrad Black, a voraciously anti-French businessman,
> > and publish a non-stop stream of Quebec defamating material.
>
> I never read a newspaper owned by Conrad Black (too right-wing
> for me).
Glad to hear that.
> The French language, as
> interesting as it may be, is of no great asset to most
> non-francophones.
Bilinguism is always an asset, except in the minds of Anglos neo-imperialists.
DarkAngel
> > Disclaimer: I certainly don't support Milosevic's actions, but I will not let
> > American half-truths and propaganda stay unchallenged. Killing people is killing
> > people, whether they are Albanians or Serbs.
>
> You seem to be willing to let the total fabrications created by
> Serb nationalists go unchallenged. Talk about double standards!
A balanced opinion is impossible to find in America. I am stating Serb nationalists
opinions to balance out the deluge of NATO apologists. The truth is probably a median
between the two.
DarkAngel
> >> If Quebec voted for independence then what can Canada or US do?
> >
> >Engineer massive electoral fraud by shipping a bus-load of Ontarians over
> >the border on referendum and elections days to vote against separatists
> >because there's no voter identification card to show that they're not
> >supposed to vote. Give Canadian voter status to more immigrants on that day
> >than in a month, while asking them to check a little box (on a voting
> >bulletin, but that they don't know), especially if they don't speak a word
> >of French or English.
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> Someone sounds a little paranoid.
> You do realize that The X-Files is fiction, right?
This is not the X-Files. This is facts. The Parti Liberal in Quebec is
investigated for electoral fraud in at least one circonscription. They are also
against voter registration cards. I don't believe in coincidences.
I am not a separatist. But hijacking of democracy cannot be tolerated.
ClayeSkye
So what can the US do? Did the US control this?
What about the rest of the several paragraphs you ranted on about?
That is what I was refering to, I just didn't see a reason to copy the entire
thing, sonce, I asumed, you would know.
Michael Moore
>
> Michael Moore wrote:
>
> > > Disclaimer: I certainly don't support Milosevic's actions, but I will not let
> > > American half-truths and propaganda stay unchallenged. Killing people is killing
> > > people, whether they are Albanians or Serbs.
> >
> > You seem to be willing to let the total fabrications created by
> > Serb nationalists go unchallenged. Talk about double standards!
>
> A balanced opinion is impossible to find in America. I am stating Serb nationalists
> opinions to balance out the deluge of NATO apologists. The truth is probably a median
> between the two.
Let's see. The free presses of the World versus the voice of
Serbian nationalists and their controlled press. It's hard to
see how the "truth" is a median between the two.
--
Michael Moore
#1446
Michael Moore
>
> Michael Moore wrote:
> > interesting as it may be, is of no great asset to most
> > non-francophones.
>
> Bilinguism is always an asset, except in the minds of Anglos neo-imperialists.
I've had many years of French language class. Now I cannot even
string a sentence together. And even if I could, the opportunity
to do so does not present itself very often. I wish that I would
have spent the time on english literature and science.
--
Michael Moore
#1446
Michael Moore
> Furthermore, the FLQ was only an excuse for the army to crack down on unions,
> communists and other 'subversives'.
Do you have any evidence? I have not heard of this, even from
official PQ communications.
--
Michael Moore
#1446
Danny Mac
Petteri Sulonen <Petteri...@helsinki.DIE.SPAM.DIE.fi> wrote in message
Petteri.Sulonen-...@liekit.in.helsinki.fi...
>In article <7ejm3m$9li$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Danny Mac"
><d.m.mclea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Of course if NATO started bombing upon hearing the first rumor of Serb
>> atrocities in Kosovo, they'd be assholes for jumping in too soon,
wouldn't
>> they?
>>
>> particularly kind one, IMHO.
>
>humanitarian problem, maybe you should consider bombing China, North
>Korea, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and about a ton of others.
>How come you're so worried about the Albanians, but don't give a tinker's
>cuss for the Kurds? Both are Moslem peoples, and both are being pretty
>brutally oppressed by the main population. Oh, I forgot. Turkey's a Nato
>country. Silly me.
>
>You're a hypocrite.
>
Not to mention all the problems going on in Africa.
The situations in other countries are not affecting NATO counties to the
extent that Kosovo is. That's why we're there, because of self-interest.
Sad but true. We can't fight all these situations all the time. Nobody can
afford to. That's why we're focusing on this problem right now, because it
is the most urgent for the NATO countries.
>-- Petteri
>
>PS. It's not a question of "giving up" on them. It's a question of trying
>to find an approach that _works_ as opposed to giving your generals a
>chance to show off their fancy new hardware. "Risking life and limb to
>defend your country", pfah.
>
We did sit down with Yugo leadership and asked that they stop massacring the
ethnic Albanians. Yugoslavia refused. When that happens, I don't know of
another approach that can work as quickly (considering it is an emergency)
than militray intervention.
----
Danny Mac
#1516
Danny Mac
Charles R Ward <crw...@netins.net> wrote in message
om2UCEPmdfDB-pn2-pPZtD5dzs4Ed@localhost...
My one data source (ex-grilfriend) says that they do. I however have never
witnessed such a thing. Perhaps it another one of those things where people
say it exists but nobody has any evidence of it. ;)
----
Danny Mac
#1516
DarkAngel
> > A balanced opinion is impossible to find in America. I am stating Serb nationalists
> > opinions to balance out the deluge of NATO apologists. The truth is probably a median
> > between the two.
>
> Let's see. The free presses of the World versus the voice of
> Serbian nationalists and their controlled press. It's hard to
> see how the "truth" is a median between the two.
There are no free presses. This is a delusion. The media are under their sponsors' whim.
Do what we want or no money for you.
Tell me, why are only Serbian atrocities spoken of? Kosovo's Liberation Army practiced
'ethnic cleansing' too, by driving off Serbs. Why are we only told about one side's
atrocities?
Answer: because people need to feel there is a Bad Guy VS Good Guy conflict in a war.
Whereas if there is a war, it can only be Bad Guy VS Bad Guy.
DarkAngel
> So what can the US do? Did the US control this?
Oops. There was a slight misunderstanding. No, the US has nothing to do with any
of it. Only Canada.
The US, however, refuse to recognize Quebec as a separate country even if it did
secede.
As for the rest of what I had written, reading one issue of the Gazette (owned by
Conrad Black) should convince you of the anti-Quebec sentiment back West.
DarkAngel
Hmm, sorry, I have no evidence. I learned that in history class.
I might have gone overboard a little in how I expressed it. The FLQ's action led
to martial law, which then made it possible to crack down on unions, communists
and subversives as well as the FLQ. "Hey, while we're here, we could bust down a
few commies."
This is why I like it here on alt.atheism. Makes it possible to change your mind
on things you realise have absolutly no rational foundation. Thank you. I'll be
checking on that and if I find any evidence, I'll let you know. Until then, take
what I said with a grain of salt. I'll probably be doing that myself.
"Bad brain, bad!"
ClayeSkye
>
>> So what can the US do? Did the US control this?
>
>Oops. There was a slight misunderstanding. No, the US has nothing to do with
>any
>of it. Only Canada.
Oh
>The US, however, refuse to recognize Quebec as a separate country even if it
>did
>secede.
I would recognize it. It's north of here, right? ; )
>As for the rest of what I had written, reading one issue of the Gazette
>(owned by
>Conrad Black) should convince you of the anti-Quebec sentiment back West.
>
I don't know if I have access to that. How would I get that?
>a.a atheist #1172 sXe BAAWA
>
>"The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes
>to blind you from the Truth. That you are a slave."
> - The Matrix
>
>Fight War, Not Wars.
#4
DarkAngel
> >The US, however, refuse to recognize Quebec as a separate country even if it
> >did
> >secede.
>
> I would recognize it. It's north of here, right? ; )
Yes. :)
> >As for the rest of what I had written, reading one issue of the Gazette
> >(owned by
> >Conrad Black) should convince you of the anti-Quebec sentiment back West.
> >
>
> I don't know if I have access to that. How would I get that?
I think it's only at www.gazette.com, or .ca, or maybe thegazette.com, something
similar.
--
a.a atheist #1172 sXe BAAWA
"The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes
to blind you from the Truth. That you are a slave."
- The Matrix
Fight War, Not Wars.
Anarchist's Manifesto
http://www.tigerden.com/~berios/anarchist-manifesto.html
DarkAngel
> I think it's only at www.gazette.com
Arggh! I hate typos.. I meant it's online... not only.
--
a.a atheist #1172 sXe BAAWA
"If you're a passive observer here's a message for you
You're already dead, you're already dead
Afraid to do what you know you should do
You're already dead, you're already dead"
- Crass, "You're already dead"
Steve Mading
: Michael Moore wrote:
: > Before the mass evacuation and exucution of ethnic Albanians in
: > Kosovo, they made up 90% of the population in Kosovo, with the
: > other 10% being Serbs.
: You of course realise that at the start of the century Kosovo was almost entirely
: Serbian and that the current situation was due to a massive influx of illegal
: immigrants from Albania. This would be like Mexicans claiming that New Mexico or
: Texas should become a separate country.
Children born on US soil are full US citizens with full US 'rights', even
if their parents were illegal immigrants. If the Albanians had been given
similar treatment, they wouldn't need to ask for independance.
Steve Mading
: ClayeSkye wrote:
: > So what can the US do? Did the US control this?
: Oops. There was a slight misunderstanding. No, the US has nothing to do with any
: of it. Only Canada.
: The US, however, refuse to recognize Quebec as a separate country even if it did
: secede.
How the hell do you know? Quebec hasn't seceded, nor has it tried to.
They had a vote and the CITIZENS OF QUEBEC voted against seceeding.
Mostly this is because despite their (admitedly minor) differences,
French-speaking Canadians don't feel 'oppressed' by the English-speaking
Canadians. They get along fairly well.