Religious Art?
Darwin
I have seen people ask if you good folks like religious music. Many
atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
other types of art.
How about visual or literary art?
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/blake/
I ask because some of the reasons given for liking religious music
seem to depend on whether or not the music is explicity religious.
The point is often made that some of the great classical composers
developed great music, and their music often had religious themes.
However, one would not realize the music was religious unless one knew
it beforehand. Simply listening to classical music is sometimes not
enough to realize that it is, in fact, religious in nature.
Looking at a religious painting, or reading a religious poem or an
explicitly religious novel, or even watching a religious movie (did
anyone like the recent rendition of The Count of Monte Cristo?) makes
it difficult to ignore the aspects of the work that one might find
disagreeable. As for me, I tend to enjoy art for its own sake.
I would also be interested in the theistic point of view on this
issue. Do you enjoy any type of art, if said art is explicity, or
maybe only implicity, antagonistic or indifferent to religion?
Thanks,
Darwin - a.a. # 1985
"...we may conclude, that the Christian Religion
not only was at first attended with miracles,
but even at this day cannot be believed by any
reasonable person without one." - David Hume
Carol Lee Smith
religious in nature doesn't guarantee that the composer was religious,
right?
Can we come up with examples of composers who were not religious who wrote
religious music?
Perhaps it is a matter of what sells.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Unlike many people of other nations, Americans are not bound together by
a common religion or common ethnicity. Instead our binding heritage is a
democratic vision of liberty, equality and justice." --Theodore Rabb
On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Darwin wrote:
> I have seen people ask if you good folks like religious music. Many
> atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
> music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
> other types of art.
> How about visual or literary art?
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/blake/
> I ask because some of the reasons given for liking religious music
> seem to depend on whether or not the music is explicity religious.
> The point is often made that some of the great classical composers
> developed great music, and their music often had religious themes.
> However, one would not realize the music was religious unless one knew
> it beforehand. Simply listening to classical music is sometimes not
> enough to realize that it is, in fact, religious in nature.
> Looking at a religious painting, or reading a religious poem or an
> explicitly religious novel, or even watching a religious movie (did
> anyone like the recent rendition of The Count of Monte Cristo?) makes
> it difficult to ignore the aspects of the work that one might find
> disagreeable. As for me, I tend to enjoy art for its own sake.
> I would also be interested in the theistic point of view on this
> issue. Do you enjoy any type of art, if said art is explicity, or
> maybe only implicity, antagonistic or indifferent to religion?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Animeg3282
>I have seen people ask if you good folks like religious music. Many
>atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
>music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
>other types of art.
>
>How about visual or literary art?
>http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/blake/
>
>I ask because some of the reasons given for liking religious music
>seem to depend on whether or not the music is explicity religious.
>The point is often made that some of the great classical composers
>developed great music, and their music often had religious themes.
>However, one would not realize the music was religious unless one knew
>it beforehand. Simply listening to classical music is sometimes not
>enough to realize that it is, in fact, religious in nature.
>
>Looking at a religious painting, or reading a religious poem or an
>explicitly religious novel, or even watching a religious movie (did
>anyone like the recent rendition of The Count of Monte Cristo?) makes
>it difficult to ignore the aspects of the work that one might find
>disagreeable. As for me, I tend to enjoy art for its own sake.
>
>I would also be interested in the theistic point of view on this
>issue. Do you enjoy any type of art, if said art is explicity, or
>maybe only implicity, antagonistic or indifferent to religion?
>
>
I like religous visual art, like if someone paints a picture of Jesus, it's not
a big deal. Movies are a bit of a problem as they usually are an insult to the
religoins they protray. A religous book can be good, since it seems easier to
show such a subject with sensitivity and a light hand in this meduim.
Hana no Kaitou
http://peachcoloredsky.keenspace.com <--- Comics updated MWF
http://members.fortunecity.com/animeg3282 <---Fancy Lala Club!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fancy_lala
"You write the life that's vividest'- Jarman
Etherman
"Darwin" <jo...@NOSPAMlost-horizon.com> wrote in message
news:jqf58uk11r63gul7s...@4ax.com...
>
> I have seen people ask if you good folks like religious music. Many
> atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
> music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
> other types of art.
Definitely. The painting in the Sistine Chapel (sp) is an amazing
accomplishment. The Last Supper is a great painting. Paradise Lost is
a great poem (that the Satan character is infinitely more interesting
and likeable than the God character). My favorite poem, Rhime of the
Ancient Mariner, has some strong religious themes. I'll probably get
shot for this, but I like Creed too (which is unusual since I rarely
enjoy mainstream music).
--
Etherman
AA # pi
EAC Director of Ritual Satanic Abuse Operations
AMTCode(v2): [Poster][TÆ][A5][Lx][Sx][Bx][FD][P-][CC]
Cloidheamh
<jo...@NOSPAMlost-horizon.com> wrote:
>
>I have seen people ask if you good folks like religious music. Many
>atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
>music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
>other types of art.
>
>How about visual or literary art?
>http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/blake/
>
>I ask because some of the reasons given for liking religious music
>seem to depend on whether or not the music is explicity religious.
>The point is often made that some of the great classical composers
>developed great music, and their music often had religious themes.
>However, one would not realize the music was religious unless one knew
>it beforehand. Simply listening to classical music is sometimes not
>enough to realize that it is, in fact, religious in nature.
>
>Looking at a religious painting, or reading a religious poem or an
>explicitly religious novel, or even watching a religious movie (did
>anyone like the recent rendition of The Count of Monte Cristo?) makes
>it difficult to ignore the aspects of the work that one might find
>disagreeable. As for me, I tend to enjoy art for its own sake.
>
>I would also be interested in the theistic point of view on this
>issue. Do you enjoy any type of art, if said art is explicity, or
>maybe only implicity, antagonistic or indifferent to religion?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
Yes, some of it is quite good.
Several paintings by Bouguereau that are cycled through my wallpaper
(or used to be before I changed computers) is religious. Madonna of
the Roses, and A Soul Brought to Heaven being two examples.
For the most part I tend to prefer mythological (which is religious,
but most were painted to portray allegorical meanings), and 'daily
life' (I can't think of the proper term right now) paintings.
Poetry never really interested me, with two exceptions: The Rhyme of
the Ancient Mariner, and Hunting of the Snark.
Religious movies are hit and miss. I've never seen a 'Jesus' movie
worth watching, but some of the films by that NRA guy I actually
liked. They just need to throw in a lot of action scenes and stay away
from the miracles: e.g. an 'historical' movie set in the Roman era
involving Christian figures, but not Jesus.
I also liked the Star Wars movies, which are based on the Jedi
religion. Does that count?
stillsunny
wrote:
>
>"Darwin" <jo...@NOSPAMlost-horizon.com> wrote in message
>news:jqf58uk11r63gul7s...@4ax.com...
>>
>> I have seen people ask if you good folks like religious music. Many
>> atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
>> music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
>> other types of art.
>
>Definitely. The painting in the Sistine Chapel (sp) is an amazing
>accomplishment. The Last Supper is a great painting. Paradise Lost is
>a great poem (that the Satan character is infinitely more interesting
>and likeable than the God character).
Satan, in Paradise Lost, is a classic hero in the tradition of
Aristotle. He has one of the best lines *ever* in literature:
"What though the field be lost?
All is not lost; the unconquerable Will,
And study of revenge, immortal hate,
And courage never to submit or yield:
And what is else not to be overcome?"
Sunny
Lord Calvert
>religious music?
Besides PDQ Bach's "Missa Hilarious"?
Hmmmmmmm...well there is Copland's ballet "Appalachian Spring" which adapted
the old Shaker melody "The Gift to be Simple."
To be honest I can't recall many non-religious composers off hand. I'll have to
do some research.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX)
"When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases." - Robert Anton
Wilson
Lord Calvert
>worth watching
"The Robe" was ok. The film adaptation of "Jesus Christ Superstar" was better
but still could have been improved. "Dogma" was absolutely magnificent but did
not include Jesus.
Darwin
wrote:
>Because the music, famous or otherwise, classical or otherwise, is
>religious in nature doesn't guarantee that the composer was religious,
>right?
Sure, I'll go along with that. That's especially true in literature.
>
>Can we come up with examples of composers who were not religious who wrote
>religious music?
I can't think of any.
>
>Perhaps it is a matter of what sells.
Like Brittany Spears? Heh.
Darwin
wrote:
Yes, one of my favorite books of all time is Dumas' The Count of Monte
Cristo. The movie was not as good, and did not capture the moral
struggle that the Count endured (is it justifiable to seek revenge,
and, if so, how far is too far?); however, it did do a pretty good job
of capturing his struggle with religion.
johac
<jo...@NOSPAMlost-horizon.com> wrote:
> I have seen people ask if you good folks like religious music. Many
> atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
> music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
> other types of art.
>
> How about visual or literary art?
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/blake/
>
> I ask because some of the reasons given for liking religious music
> seem to depend on whether or not the music is explicity religious.
> The point is often made that some of the great classical composers
> developed great music, and their music often had religious themes.
> However, one would not realize the music was religious unless one knew
> it beforehand. Simply listening to classical music is sometimes not
> enough to realize that it is, in fact, religious in nature.
>
> Looking at a religious painting, or reading a religious poem or an
> explicitly religious novel, or even watching a religious movie (did
> anyone like the recent rendition of The Count of Monte Cristo?) makes
> it difficult to ignore the aspects of the work that one might find
> disagreeable. As for me, I tend to enjoy art for its own sake.
>
> I would also be interested in the theistic point of view on this
> issue. Do you enjoy any type of art, if said art is explicity, or
> maybe only implicity, antagonistic or indifferent to religion?
My answer is the same as for music. I can appreciate the skill of the
artist, or writer, even if the topic is something that I don't believe in.
Many of the great renaissance painted religious subjects but it doesn't
detract from their art. Interestingly, the same artists also depicted scenes
from Greek and Roman mythology. Since they worked on commission, they
painted whatever their customers wanted.
The same with literature. I can appreciate a good story even if I don't
believe in with what the author is portraying. Because I enjoyed the Iliad
and the Odyssey, doesn't mean that I believe in Zeus. If, however, I feel
that the author is trying to proselytize or preach at me, then I get annoyed
and put the book down.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
> Darwin - a.a. # 1985
>
> "...we may conclude, that the Christian Religion
> not only was at first attended with miracles,
> but even at this day cannot be believed by any
> reasonable person without one." - David Hume
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
It was the schoolboy who said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910).
Neal Stein
news:20020303222111...@mb-mt.aol.com...
> >Religious movies are hit and miss. I've never seen a 'Jesus' movie
> >worth watching
>
> "The Robe" was ok. The film adaptation of "Jesus Christ Superstar" was
better
> but still could have been improved. "Dogma" was absolutely magnificent but
did
> not include Jesus.
Excuse me? What about "The Buddy Christ" huh? LOL that movie kicks ass on so
many levels. :-)
--
Neal Stein
Mandrake Linux User
Atheist Priest
because it was religous.
"Darwin" <jo...@NOSPAMlost-horizon.com> wrote in message
news:jqf58uk11r63gul7s...@4ax.com...
>
*nemo*
Darwin <jo...@NOSPAMlost-horizon.com> wrote in message
news:jqf58uk11r63gul7s...@4ax.com...
>
> atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
> music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
> other types of art.
>
> How about visual or literary art?
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/blake/
>
> I ask because some of the reasons given for liking religious music
> seem to depend on whether or not the music is explicity religious.
> The point is often made that some of the great classical composers
> developed great music, and their music often had religious themes.
> However, one would not realize the music was religious unless one knew
> it beforehand. Simply listening to classical music is sometimes not
> enough to realize that it is, in fact, religious in nature.
A very good point.
>
> Looking at a religious painting, or reading a religious poem or an
> explicitly religious novel, or even watching a religious movie (did
> anyone like the recent rendition of The Count of Monte Cristo?) makes
> it difficult to ignore the aspects of the work that one might find
> disagreeable. As for me, I tend to enjoy art for its own sake.
>
I don't know. I've not bothered much with overtly religious liteature. The
Chronicles of Narnia and CS Lewis' "space" novels I thought sucked, in
comparison with serious authors of the genres.
As to religious visual art, I usually find the subject matter quite limited
and not very interesting. I suppose the best - Michelangelo - is pretty
interesting, but (again) you can only do so much when drawing from one book
of myths.
> I would also be interested in the theistic point of view on this
> issue. Do you enjoy any type of art, if said art is explicity, or
> maybe only implicity, antagonistic or indifferent to religion?
>
My son's favorite painting, last I heard, was David's "Coronation of
Napoleon." He loed the idea of Napoleon taking the crown away from the
Cardinal...
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
> Darwin - a.a. # 1985
>
> "...we may conclude, that the Christian Religion
> not only was at first attended with miracles,
> but even at this day cannot be believed by any
> reasonable person without one." - David Hume
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.att.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
**************************************************
A little hedonism never hurt anybody...
**************************************************
chibiabos
<sun...@sccoast.com> wrote:
I'm afraid I've had too much beer. Could you explain the significance
of that line, please? Or would that require that I actually *read*
Paradise Lost?
-chib
--
Member of SMASH:
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
(email: change out to in)
stoney
<jqf58uk11r63gul7s...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>
>I have seen people ask if you good folks like religious music. Many
>atheists (at least in this newsgroup) claim they do like religious
>music, but I was wondering if this also held true when it comes to
>other types of art.
>
>How about visual or literary art?
>http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/blake/
>
>I ask because some of the reasons given for liking religious music
>seem to depend on whether or not the music is explicity religious.
>The point is often made that some of the great classical composers
>developed great music, and their music often had religious themes.
>However, one would not realize the music was religious unless one knew
>it beforehand. Simply listening to classical music is sometimes not
>enough to realize that it is, in fact, religious in nature.
>
>Looking at a religious painting, or reading a religious poem or an
>explicitly religious novel, or even watching a religious movie (did
>anyone like the recent rendition of The Count of Monte Cristo?) makes
>it difficult to ignore the aspects of the work that one might find
>disagreeable. As for me, I tend to enjoy art for its own sake.
>
>I would also be interested in the theistic point of view on this
>issue. Do you enjoy any type of art, if said art is explicity, or
>maybe only implicity, antagonistic or indifferent to religion?
Obviously, I'm not a theist however,
I don't translate things into religious/non-religious catagories. I've
got three catagories; stuff I like, stuff I don't care about, and stuff
I don't like.
--
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
stillsunny
wrote:
>In article <d3p58uga5nia7d8kt...@4ax.com>, stillsunny
><sun...@sccoast.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 02:13:46 GMT, "Etherman" <ether...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Darwin" <jo...@NOSPAMlost-horizon.com> wrote in message
>> >news:jqf58uk11r63gul7s...@4ax.com...
>> >>
<snip>
>> Satan, in Paradise Lost, is a classic hero in the tradition of
>> Aristotle. He has one of the best lines *ever* in literature:
>>
>> "What though the field be lost?
>> All is not lost; the unconquerable Will,
>> And study of revenge, immortal hate,
>> And courage never to submit or yield:
>> And what is else not to be overcome?"
>>
>> Sunny
>
>I'm afraid I've had too much beer.
Uh-oh. See the speech of the porter in MacBeth :-)
>Could you explain the significance
>of that line, please? Or would that require that I actually *read*
>Paradise Lost?
Basically, Satan thought he could take over heaven, but
underestimated. He *knows* that all he'd have to do is turn around
and say he's sorry, and he'll be welcome back. He also knows he'll
never win. But, he says, as long as he continues to fight, with
courage never to submit or yield, he'll not be bested, either. He may
not win, but he's determined not to lose.
He chooses not to kowtow and beg or entreat, and chooses to never
surrender. He's a very sympathetic character, all in all.
Sunny
>-chib
chibiabos
<sun...@sccoast.com> wrote:
Thanks. Tonight I can drink to the fine line between perseverance and
stupidity.
no_...@no.place.com
>>>
>>> "What though the field be lost?
>>> All is not lost; the unconquerable Will,
>>> And study of revenge, immortal hate,
>>> And courage never to submit or yield:
>>> And what is else not to be overcome?"
>>>
>>> Sunny
>>
>>I'm afraid I've had too much beer.
>
>Uh-oh. See the speech of the porter in MacBeth :-)
That's a good idea, off down to The MacBeth for a couple of pints
of Porter.
Ah! Minor prob. Wrong town. wrong country even. Ok, The Bird. then.