OT: Chilli anyone ?
Jez
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
Feeling the Heat
Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
Practice Has Some Experts Burning
By Alison Buckholtz
Special to The Washington Post
Tuesday, August 10, 2004; Page HE01
Hot sauce adds a kick to salsa, barbeque, falafel and hundreds of other
foods. But some parents use it in a different recipe, one they think
will yield better-behaved children: They put a drop of the fiery liquid
on a child's tongue as punishment for lying, biting, hitting or other
offenses.
"Hot saucing," or "hot tongue," has roots in Southern culture, according
to some advocates of the controversial disciplinary method, but it has
spread throughout the country. Nobody keeps track of how many parents do
it, but most experts contacted for this story, including pediatricians,
psychologists and child welfare professionals, were familiar with it.
The use of hot sauce has been advocated in a popular book, in a
magazine for Christian women and on Internet sites. Web-based
discussions on parenting carry intense, often emotional exchanges on the
topic.
But parents aren't the only ones asking "to sauce or not to sauce?"
Several state governments have gotten involved in the debate. In
Michigan in 2002, a child care center was sanctioned for using hot sauce
to discipline a child. The mother of the 18-month-old boy reportedly
gave the child care workers permission to use the sauce to help dissuade
her son from biting other children.
Virginia's child protective services agency lists hot saucing among
disciplinary tactics it calls "bizarre behaviors." The list includes
such methods as forcing a child to kneel on sharp gravel, and locking
him in a closet.
As with spanking, hot saucing elicits strong reactions, even among
friends and family members. When Kim Crosen's mother-in-law discovered
that Crosen was using hot sauce on her 5-year-old son, she was shocked,
said Crosen, a Fairfax mother of three. Because of the sensitivity of
the subject, Crosen agreed to be interviewed for this story only on the
condition that she be identified by her maiden name.
After Amanda DeLorme of American University Park posted a message
recommending hot sauce to members of DC Urban Moms, a popular e-mail
bulletin board, she recalls that she received several responses asking,
"How can you do this to your child?"
Parents who use hot sauce say that such tactics as timeouts, lectures,
negotiation or restricting certain pleasures have not worked. For them,
hot sauce -- or even the threat of it -- stops undesirable behavior.
"It works like a charm," DeLorme said.
Many of these parents say they are very careful about when and how they
administer the pepper-laced condiment: They use only a drop, do it after
repeated warnings and as a last-ditch measure. They remain confident
that it causes no physical harm, and they say they talk with their child
about the misbehavior afterward. They say it is similar to the
old-fashioned practice of washing out a child's mouth with soap or to
spanking (which some saucers do and some don't).
Crosen, who learned about the technique from a friend who carries
packets of hot sauce in her purse to correct her own children's
misbehavior, said she administers the sauce only "after many warnings,
and for extreme circumstances," like when her son called his 3-year-old
sister a "crybaby." She said she uses it about four times per year.
Pediatricians, psychologists and experts on child care and family life
contacted for this story strongly recommend against the practice.
Tim Kimmel, a parenting expert who said he approaches parenting from an
evangelical Christian perspective, has heard from parents that hot sauce
works well. But he does not approve.
"Just because something works, that doesn't mean it's a good idea," said
Kimmel, author of "Grace-Based Parenting" (W Publishing Group).
"Fear can be very effective as a discipline technique, but it's
overkill. You haven't corrected the problem, and it means nothing in
terms of building character. Our job as parents is to build character,
not to adjust behavior."
Lisa Whelchel, actress and author of "Creative Correction: Extraordinary
Ideas for Everyday Discipline" (Focus On the Family/Tyndale House),
defends the practice.
"A correction has to hurt a little," she said. "An effective deterrent
has to touch the child in some way. I don't think Tabasco is such a bad
thing." Her book suggests a "tiny" bit of hot sauce be used, and offers
alternatives such as lemon juice and vinegar.
Discipline involves "drawing a line to protect the child," Whelchel
said, "and if they cross that line, there will be pain." Whelchel said
she believes that disciplinary methods should be left up to parents --
who know their child best, are devoted to the child's well-being and can
administer punishment with love.
But Betty Jo Zarris, manager of Virginia's child protective services
program, said: "We have to have some community standards for what's
appropriate to do to children. Common sense would tell you [hot sauce]
is not appropriate for a child. The common man on the street would know
this is offensive."
The Hot Tongue
DeLorme remembers being "at the point where I would try anything" with
her 2 1/2-year old son, whom she described as "a disciplinary
challenge." She learned about the use of hot sauce from a friend.
She now uses the pepper sauce, or the threat of it, when her son hits or
bites his 5-year-old sister.
"He is better behaved as a result," DeLorme said. "He'll say, 'Please
don't give me hot tongue, Mommy,' and [the threat] interrupts his
behavior. We'll talk about it, hug and make up. That's what usually
happens."
In those rare instances when the threat is not enough, DeLorme pries his
mouth open and puts one drop of sauce on her son's tongue. "I don't feel
like I am physically hurting him," said DeLorme, who described herself
as "opposed to spanking and physical violence."
Like some other parents who use hot sauce, Crosen believes it is an
appropriate punishment for "defiant talk. . . . I use it when the mouth
is the offending party. He needs to learn to control what's coming out
of his mouth. If it's his tongue that gets him in trouble, it's his
tongue that gets punished."
As a Christian, she believes that "children need to respect and obey
[parents] or they won't learn to respect and obey God. God won't hot
sauce you, but you need to learn consequences."
Like DeLorme, Crosen reached a moment with her son where she thought, "
'That's it, I have had it' -- I needed something drastic to get through."
Crosen allows the hot sauce to sit on her son's tongue, then gives him
milk and crackers to wash it down before having him explain why he was
disrespectful.
Crosen said she thought a lot about whether to use hot sauce and
ultimately decided to do it because they felt that teaching consequences
would help their children in the long run, Crosen said.
"We tell our kids, 'We're on the same team, we're trying to help you, we
want you to have a good life and for people to like you.' "
As for parents who disapprove, "Walk a mile in my shoes first," Crosen
said. "What I'm doing is minor compared to what kids used to get 40 or
50 years ago. One drop of hot sauce is not going to hurt him. Everyone
has to do what works for them, within reason."
A mother of two children who relocated to Chevy Chase after a series of
moves from Louisiana said the use of hot sauce on children who misbehave
is widespread there. She used hot tongue once on her 5-year-old, for
biting, and still believes in the practice. But she now says she
wouldn't do it "because we can communicate more clearly."
The woman, who insisted on not being identified for this story because
she didn't want to be publicly associated with the controversial
practice, said that use of hot sauce instills fear and confirms the
physical mastery of a parent, which she believes are negative outcomes.
But "I need some discipline for egregious acts," she said.
The use of sauce is a last resort, a "worst-case scenario," she said,
and should remain so. "As parents, we're all trying to do the best by
our children. Hugs go a long way. Kids need lots of love and affection."
She has passed on the advice about hot sauce to friends in her child's
play group. Like other parents who use hot sauce, she believes that "hot
tongue is more of a threat than actual method" of applying discipline.
But when it is used, hot tongue should never be administered in anger,
she added, noting that simply sitting down with a child with the hot
sauce bottle in front of them causes the two to talk about the child's
misbehavior. The bottle, she said, acts like a prop: "better than a hand
or a belt."
She is opposed to spanking. "If I hit my child, how can I tell them not
to hit someone else? It's the worst type of discipline," she said.
Carleton Kendrick, a family therapist in Boston, fielded occasional
questions about hot sauce when he was resident therapist for the Web
site Family Education Network. "Tabasco is the most mainstream iconic
punishment in our culture," he said.
Like many people, Kendrick uses the brand name "Tabasco" as a shorthand.
Tabasco is the proprietary name of a single brand of sauce, made by the
McIlhenny Co. of Avery Island, La. The owners of the company condemn the
use of their products for child discipline. In an interview, company
president Paul McIlhenny called the practice "strange and scary" and
"abusive."
Kendrick says parents who use the technique are "at the very least . . .
ill-informed." He pointed out that many parents are not aware that hot
sauce can burn a child's esophagus and cause the tongue to swell -- a
potential choking hazard.
"There are many different kinds of hot sauce on the market, and parents
who say they know the dilution to use so it won't sting, or say they
only use one drop, are wrong," Kendrick said. "It's done because it
hurts. It stings. It burns. It makes you nauseous."
Capsaicin, the substance that makes peppers hot, inflames membranes in
the eyes, nose and mouth. While many adults find this feeling
pleasurable, capsaicin can cause negative reactions even in the third of
the adult population that has no tolerance for ingesting it, according
to Joel Gregory, publisher of Chile Pepper magazine.
There are additional risks for children. Giorgio Kulp, a pediatrician in
Montgomery County, said that the risk of swelling as well as the
possibility of unknown allergies make the use of hot sauce on children
dangerous.
"Every child's reaction, physically, is different," he said, adding that
a parent who hears that hot sauce works safely on one child should be
wary of using it on another child.
Spanking the Tongue
The hot pepper technique's current popularity is due in part to
Whelchel, a former Mickey Mouse Club Mouseketeer and actress who played
the character Blair on the television series "The Facts of Life" in the
1980s.
In "Creative Correction," now in its fifth printing, the mother of three
provides parents with a variety of tips.
For example, she suggests hiding something a child has failed to put
away, to teach the lesson that things left out may disappear. She
suggests telling a child who refuses to hold your hand while crossing a
street, "I can either hold your hand or hold your hair."
In addition, Whelchel offers the following: "For lying or other offenses
of the tongue, I 'spank' my kids' tongues. I put a tiny drop of hot
sauce on the end of my finger and dab it onto my child's tongue. It
stings for a while, but it abates. (It's the memory that lingers!)"
Whelchel's advice was repeated in an Internet chat in which she
participated and then circulated on numerous parenting Web sites and
discussion groups.
Whelchel -- who is a motivational speaker on home schooling and other
parenting topics -- said in an interview that she wrote the book not as
a parenting expert, but "from one mom to another."
She said she used hot sauce on her children when they were 4, 5 and 6
years old. They are now 12, 13 and 14. Although she said it worked well
for her family, she is aware that the tactic "can be abused."
She is also aware that when the method is discussed by people who cite
her book and by those unfamiliar with the practice, "the qualifiers get
lost," such as the age at which hot sauce might be appropriate and the
amount of hot sauce to use.
"If there's a mom who shakes the bottle on the kid's tongue, that mom
probably does deserve to have someone poking into her business,"
Whelchel said. "But I think most moms are caring and intuitive. You
can't throw out a bunch of good stuff because of the exceptions."
"Creative Correction" provides long lists of scriptural passages that,
in Whelchel's view, justify a variety of disciplinary practices.
For example, she quotes the Book of Proverbs -- "The mouth of the
righteous brings forth wisdom, but a perverse tongue will be cut out" --
and follows with this suggestion: "A short pinch by a clothespin on the
tongue can discourage foul language."
Hot saucing is a topic of debate in some Christian circles.
In 2001, an article in Today's Christian Woman magazine advised parents
to use hot sauce on a child's tongue to teach the importance of not
talking back. The article offered alternatives, including
"yucky-tasting" soap or white vinegar.
But there is wide disagreement even among fundamentalist and evangelical
Christians, just as there is among other parents. Some question whether
the tongue is the proper target for disciplinary action.
"The tongue doesn't do the lying, the heart does the lying," said
Kimmel, the evangelical parenting author. "When you direct a form of
discipline to a body part that created the problem, it's like in [other
cultures] when they cut off your hand for stealing."
Ken Williams, executive director of Christian Counseling Associates
Inc., in Columbia, accepts a connection between lying and the tongue,
and allows that the use of hot sauce is "biblically supportable in
principle." But "the inordinate pain and cruelty . . . wipes out
anything that makes sense."
Other authorities on religious education for children agree. For
example, the Christian Homeschool Fellowship on the Web states on a
prominent page of its site, "We do not believe that some discipline
methods are appropriate -- such as applying hot sauce to the mouths or
tongues of children."
Old vs. New
Margaret McGowen of the District, a staff scientist for a trade
association and the mother of a 17-month-old, is familiar with the
intense feelings about hot sauce. McGowan's mother sauced her tongue
when she was 3 and 4 years old, as punishment for telling fibs.
"She told us the devil was dancing on our tongue, and she put a drop of
Tabasco on it to drive him away," said McGowen, who grew up in Philadelphia.
McGowen "couldn't connect" the idea of her tongue's getting punished for
a lie, though she remembers that "it really did discourage us from
fibbing. All I had to do was see the bottle. Even if [my mother] was
just using it for cooking or adding it to a recipe, it put fear in me."
McGowen will not pass her saucing experience down to her son.
"I don't need to resort to chemical warfare," she said. Though she does
not blame her mother for the punishment "because she was probably
ill-informed," McGowen believes that "today we are more educated about
the psychology of children."
She still remembers the feeling of hot sauce on her tongue 30 years ago:
"It hurt. It burned. It was hard to get rid of the sensation."
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
Robibnikoff
"Jez" <iced_...@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:8NidnTjwFqY...@pipex.net...
> Sick bastards.......
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>
> Feeling the Heat
> Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
> Practice Has Some Experts Burning
Damn, you ain't kidding. See, this is why all parents should develop "the
Look". Works like a charm and all I have to do is raise an eyebrow.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
chibiabos
<witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
Works on grown men, too.
-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
(email: change out to in)
Robibnikoff
"chibiabos" <ch...@outreach.com> wrote in message
news:140120050827408289%ch...@outreach.com...
> In article <34q5vsF...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff
> <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>
>> "Jez" <iced_...@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
>> news:8NidnTjwFqY...@pipex.net...
>> > Sick bastards.......
>> >
>> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>> >
>> > Feeling the Heat
>> > Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
>> > Practice Has Some Experts Burning
>>
>> Damn, you ain't kidding. See, this is why all parents should develop "the
>> Look". Works like a charm and all I have to do is raise an eyebrow.
>
> Works on grown men, too.
But not on my husband, damnit :)
Therion Ware
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:40:38 -0500 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism
Try Marmite!
Robibnikoff
"Therion Ware" <autod...@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:tpvfu01d4c5tmpi5c...@4ax.com...
Hey, I don't want to KILL him.......................................yet :)
rj
news:34qb06F...@individual.net:
Some men require something a bit more blatent. A 4ft. 2x4 upside the head
generally will gain his attention. (:>) Once you have his attention, then
you can easily teach him about the subtleties of facial expressions.
Once is generally all that is needed, but in certain cases on must lather,
rinse, repeat as necessary.
rj
firel...@hotmail.com
> Some men require something a bit more blatent. A 4ft. 2x4 upside the
head
> generally will gain his attention.
Or, one way or another, his absence.
Oh, right, you were smiling while referring to domestic
violence towards your spouse, therefore no-one (or, at least,
no-one important) gets hurt.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
Douglas Berry
<witc...@broomstick.com> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
My mom had The Voice. Not yelling, but the tone that said playtime
was *over*. Never failed.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Mike Painter
<snip>
>
> Try Marmite!
So I find http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/marmite.htm#whatis which tells me
what Marmite is and down the page I see ""Eat it on raw spaghetti. It's
true! Dip raw spaghetti in Marmite and then eat; it tastes just like
Twiglets." Twiglets?
But since I'm on the subject have any of you fer-in-ers heard of "twigging"
an orange? This consists of peeling it, then breaking it into it's
individual segments.
An old girl friend used the term and she got it from her grandmother.
Robibnikoff
"Mike Painter" <mddotp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:rsUFd.11358$5R....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Therion Ware wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> Try Marmite!
>
> So I find http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/marmite.htm#whatis which tells me
> what Marmite is and down the page I see ""Eat it on raw spaghetti. It's
> true! Dip raw spaghetti in Marmite and then eat; it tastes just like
> Twiglets." Twiglets?
UG! That picture of the kid covered with it is nasty! :)
>
> But since I'm on the subject have any of you fer-in-ers heard of
> "twigging" an orange? This consists of peeling it, then breaking it into
> it's individual segments.
> An old girl friend used the term and she got it from her grandmother.
Never heard of that :)
Gary Bohn
news:34qihrF...@individual.net:
> "Mike Painter" <mddotp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:rsUFd.11358$5R....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> Therion Ware wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Try Marmite!
>>
>> So I find http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/marmite.htm#whatis which
>> tells me what Marmite is and down the page I see ""Eat it on raw
>> spaghetti. It's true! Dip raw spaghetti in Marmite and then eat; it
>> tastes just like Twiglets." Twiglets?
>
> UG! That picture of the kid covered with it is nasty! :)
I could have been something else covering the little one. :-)
>>
>> But since I'm on the subject have any of you fer-in-ers heard of
>> "twigging" an orange? This consists of peeling it, then breaking it
>> into it's individual segments.
>> An old girl friend used the term and she got it from her grandmother.
>
> Never heard of that :)
Nope, nope, nope.
--
apatriot #23, aa #2179, Grand Poobah, EAC Department of Oxygen
Deprivation
Responsible for brain damage everywhere!
Gary Bohn
Gary Bohn
Are you trying to say that men don't pay attention to women? Or that we
are thick?
Robibnikoff
"Gary Bohn" <gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns95DE8A3FA...@130.133.1.4...
> "Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in
> news:34qihrF...@individual.net:
>
>> "Mike Painter" <mddotp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:rsUFd.11358$5R....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>> Therion Ware wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Try Marmite!
>>>
>>> So I find http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/marmite.htm#whatis which
>>> tells me what Marmite is and down the page I see ""Eat it on raw
>>> spaghetti. It's true! Dip raw spaghetti in Marmite and then eat; it
>>> tastes just like Twiglets." Twiglets?
>>
>> UG! That picture of the kid covered with it is nasty! :)
>
> I could have been something else covering the little one. :-)
Please tell me this was a typo!! :)
Robibnikoff
"Gary Bohn" <gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
> rj <r...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:Xns95DE7BF6...@10.232.1.1:
>
>> "Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in
>> news:34qb06F...@individual.net:
snip
>>> But not on my husband, damnit :)
>>
>> Some men require something a bit more blatent. A 4ft. 2x4 upside the
>> head generally will gain his attention. (:>) Once you have his
>> attention, then you can easily teach him about the subtleties of
>> facial expressions.
>>
>> Once is generally all that is needed, but in certain cases on must
>> lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.
>> rj
>>
>>
>
> Are you trying to say that men don't pay attention to women? Or that we
> are thick?
<whistling> :)
Gary Bohn
news:34qmo9F...@individual.net:
Sorry, It should have been 'It could have been something else covering
the little one'. I was referring to a poopie party.
Gary Bohn
Robibnikoff
"Gary Bohn" <gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
> "Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in
> news:34qmo9F...@individual.net:
>
>> "Gary Bohn" <gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
>> news:Xns95DE8A3FA...@130.133.1.4...
>>> "Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in
>>> news:34qihrF...@individual.net:
>>>
>>>> "Mike Painter" <mddotp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:rsUFd.11358$5R....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>>>> Therion Ware wrote:
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try Marmite!
>>>>>
>>>>> So I find http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/marmite.htm#whatis which
>>>>> tells me what Marmite is and down the page I see ""Eat it on raw
>>>>> spaghetti. It's true! Dip raw spaghetti in Marmite and then eat; it
>>>>> tastes just like Twiglets." Twiglets?
>>>>
>>>> UG! That picture of the kid covered with it is nasty! :)
>>>
>>> I could have been something else covering the little one. :-)
>>
>> Please tell me this was a typo!! :)
>
> Sorry, It should have been 'It could have been something else covering
> the little one'. I was referring to a poopie party.
LOL, that was pretty much what I thought. I was just bustin' ya :)
unrestra...@hotmail.com
My wife told me I *had to get in touch with my feelings.
I said "I'm not hungry... I don't hurt anywhere... I feel pretty good!"
Then she hit me with a 2 x 4.
Women. They don't make any sense.
Kermit
Kevin Anthoney
I don't know what she was saying. I wasn't listening.
--
Kevin Anthoney
kanthoney[a]dsl.pipex.com
Brian E. Clark
said...
> >
> > Damn, you ain't kidding. See, this is why all parents should develop "the
> > Look". Works like a charm and all I have to do is raise an eyebrow.
>
> Works on grown men, too.
Sometimes. At other times my wife gives me "the look," and I
just frown and ask, "What's with eyebrow, Mr. Spock?" :)
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
Kevin Anthoney
I bet you won't live long and prosper :)
Gary Bohn
news:34qo2vF...@individual.net:
Well my mistake could have been construed such that I would suffer
horribly. I had to correct it and was going to do so when I noticed the
gaff. Thanks for that opportunity.
I'm just glad Stoney didn't get a hold of it.
Gary Bohn
news:1105737066.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
No, but they swing a mean 2x4.
Dale
news:8NidnTjwFqY...@pipex.net...
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>
> Feeling the Heat
> Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
> Practice Has Some Experts Burning
Weird. I like the following quote,
> God won't hot sauce you, but you need to learn consequences."
Here's another good one.
> She is opposed to spanking. "If I hit my child, how can I tell them not
> to hit someone else? It's the worst type of discipline," she said.
So, if you force your child to hold his mouth open and then dose his tongue
with burning chemicals, how can you tell them not to force someone else's
mouth open and then dose their tongue with burning chemicals? How do they
get the kid keep his mouth open? Sounds worse than spanking because of the
amount of psychological control involved.
But I'm not one to talk. When my kid was 18 months old, she kept running out
into the street, so finally I gave her a little swat on her diaper covered
behind. She cried a lot, and she never ran out in the street again. I don't
think it was the pain so much as the parental rejection it represented. For
years afterwards, the mere mention of a spanking was enough to bring her in
line, even that I used very sparingly, though there were two more times when
I felt the necessity of a swat, but only when it involved her own physical
safety.
People make too much of a big deal about physical violence. Sure physical
abuse is bad, but not all violence is abuse. We are physical beings. We
respond to hugs and we respond to slaps. But slapping is not punching any
more than hugging is making love, and it's easy for a child to see and to
know the difference between a little swat on the behind and a punch to the
face.
Abuse is possible with any method of discipline, abuse is possible even with
people who only use words and psychological methods.
Mike Painter
>
> People make too much of a big deal about physical violence. Sure
> physical abuse is bad, but not all violence is abuse. We are physical
> beings. We respond to hugs and we respond to slaps. But slapping is
> not punching any more than hugging is making love, and it's easy for
> a child to see and to know the difference between a little swat on
> the behind and a punch to the face.
The shelter I worked in did not allow any physical punishment. Age adjusted
time outs were the only allowed punishment.
These kids were there because their mother had finally gotten tired of being
beat up by their husband and frequently caused problems.
There may have been some kids that didn't adjust to the time outs but I
never saw them.
They worked. It is the only form of punishment that I've seen kids accept.
If asked, the child would *always* say they deserved a time out for some
thing they did they knew was wrong. Our only problem was that if we asked
them how long they always would give a number higher than we thought was
right.
Wolves are physical animals and the only discipline they impose on pups is
with looks and sounds.
Dale
An 18 month old running into the street doesn't understand timeout.
Sam
Dale wrote:
the best way i found to keep my child from the street was to monitor him
and not let him run into the street
Mark K. Bilbo
of the bushes shouting:
>
> "Jez" <iced_...@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
> news:8NidnTjwFqY...@pipex.net...
>> Sick bastards.......
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>>
>> Feeling the Heat
>> Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
>> Practice Has Some Experts Burning
>
> Damn, you ain't kidding. See, this is why all parents should develop "the
> Look". Works like a charm and all I have to do is raise an eyebrow.
That's nothing compared to The Ignore...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
Mark K. Bilbo
Kevin Anthoney lept out of the bushes shouting:
What who was saying?
Kevin Anthoney
Some woman was flapping her gums, apparently. Probably nothing important.
Ike
"Jez" <iced_...@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:8NidnTjwFqY...@pipex.net...
> Sick bastards.......
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>
> Feeling the Heat
> Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
> Practice Has Some Experts Burning
>
> Special to The Washington Post
> Tuesday, August 10, 2004; Page HE01
>
> Hot sauce adds a kick to salsa, barbeque, falafel and hundreds of other
> foods. But some parents use it in a different recipe, one they think
> will yield better-behaved children: They put a drop of the fiery liquid
> on a child's tongue as punishment for lying, biting, hitting or other
> offenses.
>
This is bad because it teaches the children to hate spicy foods.
--
The argument that everything had a Creator because it's too complicated, is
about as reasonable as saying that it couldn't have been created since it's
too complicated.
It's about like saying that a super flea created a dog. Then
the good fleas go to a great dog in the sky, while the bad unbelieving fleas
are scratched off into a super rug to be forever hungry. If you think dogs
weren't created by a Great Flea then you are an afleaist.
Robibnikoff
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:asedncZ88ut...@megapath.net...
> In our last episode <34q5vsF...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept out
> of the bushes shouting:
>
>>
>> "Jez" <iced_...@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
>> news:8NidnTjwFqY...@pipex.net...
>>> Sick bastards.......
>>>
>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>>>
>>> Feeling the Heat
>>> Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
>>> Practice Has Some Experts Burning
>>
>> Damn, you ain't kidding. See, this is why all parents should develop "the
>> Look". Works like a charm and all I have to do is raise an eyebrow.
>
> That's nothing compared to The Ignore...
I try that on my cats all the time and it just doesn't work! Got one curled
up in my lap right now :)
Robibnikoff
"Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c75ce$41e92b1a$51569c09$20...@nf1.news-service.com...
Hey!
Kevin Anthoney
There's that noise again. Does anyone know if there's a "mute" button?
Robibnikoff
Not with that attitude! :)
Robibnikoff
"Gary Bohn" <gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
No problem :)
>
> I'm just glad Stoney didn't get a hold of it.
Oh, he may still stumble across it :)
Robibnikoff
> Robibnikoff wrote:
>
>>
>> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:c75ce$41e92b1a$51569c09$20...@nf1.news-service.com...
snip
>>> Some woman was flapping her gums, apparently. Probably nothing
>>> important.
>>
>> Hey!
>
> There's that noise again. Does anyone know if there's a "mute" button?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! <pulls out cauldron from hidden cabinet and starts
a'brewing> :)
Kevin Anthoney
>
> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b54e7$41e9603a$51569c09$25...@nf1.news-service.com...
>> Robibnikoff wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:c75ce$41e92b1a$51569c09$20...@nf1.news-service.com...
>
> snip
>>>> Some woman was flapping her gums, apparently. Probably nothing
>>>> important.
>>>
>>> Hey!
>>
>> There's that noise again. Does anyone know if there's a "mute" button?
>
> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! <pulls out cauldron from hidden cabinet and starts
> a'brewing> :)
Good, it's about time you were getting the dinner ready.
Can you get me a beer from the fridge while you're in there? There's a
love.
:)
Robibnikoff
> Robibnikoff wrote:
>
>>
>> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:b54e7$41e9603a$51569c09$25...@nf1.news-service.com...
>>> Robibnikoff wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:c75ce$41e92b1a$51569c09$20...@nf1.news-service.com...
>>
>> snip
>>>>> Some woman was flapping her gums, apparently. Probably nothing
>>>>> important.
>>>>
>>>> Hey!
>>>
>>> There's that noise again. Does anyone know if there's a "mute" button?
>>
>> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! <pulls out cauldron from hidden cabinet and starts
>> a'brewing> :)
>
> Good, it's about time you were getting the dinner ready.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!
>
> Can you get me a beer from the fridge while you're in there? There's a
> love.
Why, I oughta!!! :)
Mark K. Bilbo
Kevin Anthoney
I dunno. Maybe somebody's got gas.
(Sorry, Robyn! I'll stop now, I promise!)
Robibnikoff
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote in message
Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
Robibnikoff
LOL! I almost shot coffee out of my nose over your last comment! :)
Brian E. Clark
> >> Sometimes. At other times my wife gives me "the look," and I
> >> just frown and ask, "What's with eyebrow, Mr. Spock?" :)
> >>
> >
> > I bet you won't live long and prosper :)
>
> Not with that attitude! :)
She won't toss me out -- I'm the one who cleans the cat litter!
Robibnikoff
"Brian E. Clark" <re...@newsgroup.only.please> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c5459af8...@news.comcast.giganews.com...
Hooo! That's one lucky woman! The only time my husband cleaned the litter
box was when I was pregnant. The day I came home from the hospital with the
witchling, he happily announced that his job was over! Thank goodness he
makes me laugh on a daily basis :)
Mark K. Bilbo
of the bushes shouting:
Napping?
Robibnikoff
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote in message
Wha?
Kevin Anthoney
Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
stoney
<iced_...@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote:
>Sick bastards.......
No shit. Fear isn't respect. It's simply fear.
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>
>Feeling the Heat
>Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
>Practice Has Some Experts Burning
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
stoney
<gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote:
>"Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in
>news:34qo2vF...@individual.net:
>
>> "Gary Bohn" <gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
>> news:Xns95DE8FF32...@130.133.1.4...
>>> "Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in
>>> news:34qmo9F...@individual.net:
>>>
>>>> "Gary Bohn" <gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns95DE8A3FA...@130.133.1.4...
>>>>> "Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:34qihrF...@individual.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mike Painter" <mddotp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:rsUFd.11358$5R....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>>>>>> Therion Ware wrote:
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try Marmite!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I find http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/marmite.htm#whatis which
>>>>>>> tells me what Marmite is and down the page I see ""Eat it on raw
>>>>>>> spaghetti. It's true! Dip raw spaghetti in Marmite and then eat;
>>>>>>> it tastes just like Twiglets." Twiglets?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UG! That picture of the kid covered with it is nasty! :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I could have been something else covering the little one. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Please tell me this was a typo!! :)
>>>
>>> Sorry, It should have been 'It could have been something else
>>> covering the little one'. I was referring to a poopie party.
>>
>> LOL, that was pretty much what I thought. I was just bustin' ya :)
>
>Well my mistake could have been construed such that I would suffer
>horribly. I had to correct it and was going to do so when I noticed the
>gaff. Thanks for that opportunity.
>
>
>I'm just glad Stoney didn't get a hold of it.
/Peals of evil laughter
I've been busy working on a portrait so I'm a couple days behind on
things.
stoney
/trip
falls into Robyn's lap.....
stoney
MMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTT
Don't forget to ask her to press the tv channel button on the remote
for you......
stoney
<witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>
>"Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:d2608$41e963f2$51569c09$31...@nf1.news-service.com...
>> Robibnikoff wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:b54e7$41e9603a$51569c09$25...@nf1.news-service.com...
>>>> Robibnikoff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:c75ce$41e92b1a$51569c09$20...@nf1.news-service.com...
>>>
>>> snip
>>>>>> Some woman was flapping her gums, apparently. Probably nothing
>>>>>> important.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey!
>>>>
>>>> There's that noise again. Does anyone know if there's a "mute" button?
>>>
>>> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! <pulls out cauldron from hidden cabinet and starts
>>> a'brewing> :)
>>
>> Good, it's about time you were getting the dinner ready.
>
>Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!
>>
>> Can you get me a beer from the fridge while you're in there? There's a
>> love.
>
>Why, I oughta!!! :)
"Good Girl!"...here's a pig's ear....
::::::::::::::JATO ESCAPE""""""""""""""""""" :D
Gary Bohn
news:mmtou0dg0tcbvvo4v...@4ax.com:
Ah ha. The old 'fake trip and fall into the gorgeous woman's lap' trick
eh? You are obviously an agent of Chaos.
--
apatriot #23, aa #2179, Grand Poobah, EAC Department of Oxygen
Deprivation
Responsible for brain damage everywhere!
Gary Bohn
Gary Bohn
news:lktou0lbppjbtqolf...@4ax.com:
You can just forget you saw it then. Right?
Kevin Anthoney
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 18:38:00 +0000, Kevin Anthoney
> <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Robibnikoff wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:b54e7$41e9603a$51569c09$25...@nf1.news-service.com...
>>>> Robibnikoff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Kevin Anthoney" <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:c75ce$41e92b1a$51569c09$20...@nf1.news-service.com...
>>>
>>> snip
>>>>>> Some woman was flapping her gums, apparently. Probably nothing
>>>>>> important.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey!
>>>>
>>>> There's that noise again. Does anyone know if there's a "mute" button?
>>>
>>> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! <pulls out cauldron from hidden cabinet and starts
>>> a'brewing> :)
>>
>>Good, it's about time you were getting the dinner ready.
>>
>>Can you get me a beer from the fridge while you're in there? There's a
>>love.
>
> MMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTT
>
> Don't forget to ask her to press the tv channel button on the remote
> for you......
>
>
Press the button on the remote??!? You *have* to be kidding.
She can *pass* me the remote, but she doesn't get to play with the buttons.
Robibnikoff
Ignoring you! ;)
K.C.
(not the belief that there is no God). Go post it to a religious
group.
Jez wrote:
> Sick bastards.......
>
>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>
> Feeling the Heat
> Some Parents Apply Hot Sauce to a Child's Tongue as Punishment. The
> Practice Has Some Experts Burning
>
> By Alison Buckholtz
> Special to The Washington Post
> Tuesday, August 10, 2004; Page HE01
>
> Hot sauce adds a kick to salsa, barbeque, falafel and hundreds of
other
> foods. But some parents use it in a different recipe, one they think
> will yield better-behaved children: They put a drop of the fiery
liquid
> on a child's tongue as punishment for lying, biting, hitting or other
> offenses.
>
> "Hot saucing," or "hot tongue," has roots in Southern culture,
according
> to some advocates of the controversial disciplinary method, but it
has
> spread throughout the country. Nobody keeps track of how many parents
do
> it, but most experts contacted for this story, including
pediatricians,
> psychologists and child welfare professionals, were familiar with it.
>
> The use of hot sauce has been advocated in a popular book, in a
> magazine for Christian women and on Internet sites. Web-based
> discussions on parenting carry intense, often emotional exchanges on
the
> topic.
>
> But parents aren't the only ones asking "to sauce or not to sauce?"
> Several state governments have gotten involved in the debate. In
> Michigan in 2002, a child care center was sanctioned for using hot
sauce
> to discipline a child. The mother of the 18-month-old boy reportedly
> gave the child care workers permission to use the sauce to help
dissuade
> her son from biting other children.
>
> Virginia's child protective services agency lists hot saucing among
> disciplinary tactics it calls "bizarre behaviors." The list includes
> such methods as forcing a child to kneel on sharp gravel, and locking
> him in a closet.
>
> As with spanking, hot saucing elicits strong reactions, even among
> friends and family members. When Kim Crosen's mother-in-law
discovered
> that Crosen was using hot sauce on her 5-year-old son, she was
shocked,
> said Crosen, a Fairfax mother of three. Because of the sensitivity of
> the subject, Crosen agreed to be interviewed for this story only on
the
> condition that she be identified by her maiden name.
>
> After Amanda DeLorme of American University Park posted a message
> recommending hot sauce to members of DC Urban Moms, a popular e-mail
> bulletin board, she recalls that she received several responses
asking,
> "How can you do this to your child?"
>
> Parents who use hot sauce say that such tactics as timeouts,
lectures,
> negotiation or restricting certain pleasures have not worked. For
them,
> hot sauce -- or even the threat of it -- stops undesirable behavior.
>
> "It works like a charm," DeLorme said.
>
> Many of these parents say they are very careful about when and how
they
> administer the pepper-laced condiment: They use only a drop, do it
after
> repeated warnings and as a last-ditch measure. They remain confident
> that it causes no physical harm, and they say they talk with their
child
> about the misbehavior afterward. They say it is similar to the
> old-fashioned practice of washing out a child's mouth with soap or to
> spanking (which some saucers do and some don't).
>
> Crosen, who learned about the technique from a friend who carries
> packets of hot sauce in her purse to correct her own children's
> misbehavior, said she administers the sauce only "after many
warnings,
> and for extreme circumstances," like when her son called his
3-year-old
> sister a "crybaby." She said she uses it about four times per year.
>
> Pediatricians, psychologists and experts on child care and family
life
> contacted for this story strongly recommend against the practice.
>
> Tim Kimmel, a parenting expert who said he approaches parenting from
an
> evangelical Christian perspective, has heard from parents that hot
sauce
> works well. But he does not approve.
>
> "Just because something works, that doesn't mean it's a good idea,"
said
> Kimmel, author of "Grace-Based Parenting" (W Publishing Group).
>
> "Fear can be very effective as a discipline technique, but it's
> overkill. You haven't corrected the problem, and it means nothing in
> terms of building character. Our job as parents is to build
character,
> not to adjust behavior."
>
> Lisa Whelchel, actress and author of "Creative Correction:
Extraordinary
> Ideas for Everyday Discipline" (Focus On the Family/Tyndale House),
> defends the practice.
>
> "A correction has to hurt a little," she said. "An effective
deterrent
> has to touch the child in some way. I don't think Tabasco is such a
bad
> thing." Her book suggests a "tiny" bit of hot sauce be used, and
offers
> alternatives such as lemon juice and vinegar.
>
> Discipline involves "drawing a line to protect the child," Whelchel
> said, "and if they cross that line, there will be pain." Whelchel
said
> she believes that disciplinary methods should be left up to parents
--
> who know their child best, are devoted to the child's well-being and
can
> administer punishment with love.
>
> But Betty Jo Zarris, manager of Virginia's child protective services
> program, said: "We have to have some community standards for what's
> appropriate to do to children. Common sense would tell you [hot
sauce]
> is not appropriate for a child. The common man on the street would
know
> this is offensive."
>
> The Hot Tongue
>
> DeLorme remembers being "at the point where I would try anything"
with
> her 2 1/2-year old son, whom she described as "a disciplinary
> challenge." She learned about the use of hot sauce from a friend.
>
> She now uses the pepper sauce, or the threat of it, when her son hits
or
> bites his 5-year-old sister.
>
> "He is better behaved as a result," DeLorme said. "He'll say, 'Please
> don't give me hot tongue, Mommy,' and [the threat] interrupts his
> behavior. We'll talk about it, hug and make up. That's what usually
> happens."
>
> In those rare instances when the threat is not enough, DeLorme pries
his
> mouth open and puts one drop of sauce on her son's tongue. "I don't
feel
> like I am physically hurting him," said DeLorme, who described
herself
> as "opposed to spanking and physical violence."
>
> Like some other parents who use hot sauce, Crosen believes it is an
> appropriate punishment for "defiant talk. . . . I use it when the
mouth
> is the offending party. He needs to learn to control what's coming
out
> of his mouth. If it's his tongue that gets him in trouble, it's his
> tongue that gets punished."
>
> As a Christian, she believes that "children need to respect and obey
> [parents] or they won't learn to respect and obey God. God won't hot
> sauce you, but you need to learn consequences."
>
> Like DeLorme, Crosen reached a moment with her son where she thought,
"
> 'That's it, I have had it' -- I needed something drastic to get
through."
>
> Crosen allows the hot sauce to sit on her son's tongue, then gives
him
> milk and crackers to wash it down before having him explain why he
was
> disrespectful.
>
> Crosen said she thought a lot about whether to use hot sauce and
> ultimately decided to do it because they felt that teaching
consequences
> would help their children in the long run, Crosen said.
>
> "We tell our kids, 'We're on the same team, we're trying to help you,
we
> want you to have a good life and for people to like you.' "
>
> As for parents who disapprove, "Walk a mile in my shoes first,"
Crosen
> said. "What I'm doing is minor compared to what kids used to get 40
or
> 50 years ago. One drop of hot sauce is not going to hurt him.
Everyone
> has to do what works for them, within reason."
>
> A mother of two children who relocated to Chevy Chase after a series
of
> moves from Louisiana said the use of hot sauce on children who
misbehave
> is widespread there. She used hot tongue once on her 5-year-old, for
> biting, and still believes in the practice. But she now says she
> wouldn't do it "because we can communicate more clearly."
>
> The woman, who insisted on not being identified for this story
because
> she didn't want to be publicly associated with the controversial
> practice, said that use of hot sauce instills fear and confirms the
> physical mastery of a parent, which she believes are negative
outcomes.
> But "I need some discipline for egregious acts," she said.
>
> The use of sauce is a last resort, a "worst-case scenario," she said,
> and should remain so. "As parents, we're all trying to do the best by
> our children. Hugs go a long way. Kids need lots of love and
affection."
>
> She has passed on the advice about hot sauce to friends in her
child's
> play group. Like other parents who use hot sauce, she believes that
"hot
> tongue is more of a threat than actual method" of applying
discipline.
>
> But when it is used, hot tongue should never be administered in
anger,
> she added, noting that simply sitting down with a child with the hot
> sauce bottle in front of them causes the two to talk about the
child's
> misbehavior. The bottle, she said, acts like a prop: "better than a
hand
> or a belt."
>
> She is opposed to spanking. "If I hit my child, how can I tell them
not
> to hit someone else? It's the worst type of discipline," she said.
>
> Carleton Kendrick, a family therapist in Boston, fielded occasional
> questions about hot sauce when he was resident therapist for the Web
> site Family Education Network. "Tabasco is the most mainstream iconic
> punishment in our culture," he said.
>
> Like many people, Kendrick uses the brand name "Tabasco" as a
shorthand.
> Tabasco is the proprietary name of a single brand of sauce, made by
the
> McIlhenny Co. of Avery Island, La. The owners of the company condemn
the
> use of their products for child discipline. In an interview, company
> president Paul McIlhenny called the practice "strange and scary" and
> "abusive."
>
> Kendrick says parents who use the technique are "at the very least .
. .
> ill-informed." He pointed out that many parents are not aware that
hot
> sauce can burn a child's esophagus and cause the tongue to swell -- a
> potential choking hazard.
>
> "There are many different kinds of hot sauce on the market, and
parents
> who say they know the dilution to use so it won't sting, or say they
> only use one drop, are wrong," Kendrick said. "It's done because it
> hurts. It stings. It burns. It makes you nauseous."
>
> Capsaicin, the substance that makes peppers hot, inflames membranes
in
> the eyes, nose and mouth. While many adults find this feeling
> pleasurable, capsaicin can cause negative reactions even in the third
of
> the adult population that has no tolerance for ingesting it,
according
> to Joel Gregory, publisher of Chile Pepper magazine.
>
> There are additional risks for children. Giorgio Kulp, a pediatrician
in
> Montgomery County, said that the risk of swelling as well as the
> possibility of unknown allergies make the use of hot sauce on
children
> dangerous.
>
> "Every child's reaction, physically, is different," he said, adding
that
> a parent who hears that hot sauce works safely on one child should be
> wary of using it on another child.
>
> Spanking the Tongue
>
> The hot pepper technique's current popularity is due in part to
> Whelchel, a former Mickey Mouse Club Mouseketeer and actress who
played
> the character Blair on the television series "The Facts of Life" in
the
> 1980s.
>
> In "Creative Correction," now in its fifth printing, the mother of
three
> provides parents with a variety of tips.
>
> For example, she suggests hiding something a child has failed to put
> away, to teach the lesson that things left out may disappear. She
> suggests telling a child who refuses to hold your hand while crossing
a
> street, "I can either hold your hand or hold your hair."
>
> In addition, Whelchel offers the following: "For lying or other
offenses
> of the tongue, I 'spank' my kids' tongues. I put a tiny drop of hot
> sauce on the end of my finger and dab it onto my child's tongue. It
> stings for a while, but it abates. (It's the memory that lingers!)"
>
> Whelchel's advice was repeated in an Internet chat in which she
> participated and then circulated on numerous parenting Web sites and
> discussion groups.
>
> Whelchel -- who is a motivational speaker on home schooling and other
> parenting topics -- said in an interview that she wrote the book not
as
> a parenting expert, but "from one mom to another."
>
> She said she used hot sauce on her children when they were 4, 5 and 6
> years old. They are now 12, 13 and 14. Although she said it worked
well
> for her family, she is aware that the tactic "can be abused."
>
> She is also aware that when the method is discussed by people who
cite
> her book and by those unfamiliar with the practice, "the qualifiers
get
> lost," such as the age at which hot sauce might be appropriate and
the
> amount of hot sauce to use.
>
> "If there's a mom who shakes the bottle on the kid's tongue, that mom
> probably does deserve to have someone poking into her business,"
> Whelchel said. "But I think most moms are caring and intuitive. You
> can't throw out a bunch of good stuff because of the exceptions."
>
> "Creative Correction" provides long lists of scriptural passages
that,
> in Whelchel's view, justify a variety of disciplinary practices.
>
> For example, she quotes the Book of Proverbs -- "The mouth of the
> righteous brings forth wisdom, but a perverse tongue will be cut out"
--
> and follows with this suggestion: "A short pinch by a clothespin on
the
> tongue can discourage foul language."
>
> Hot saucing is a topic of debate in some Christian circles.
>
> In 2001, an article in Today's Christian Woman magazine advised
parents
> to use hot sauce on a child's tongue to teach the importance of not
> talking back. The article offered alternatives, including
> "yucky-tasting" soap or white vinegar.
>
> But there is wide disagreement even among fundamentalist and
evangelical
> Christians, just as there is among other parents. Some question
whether
> the tongue is the proper target for disciplinary action.
>
> "The tongue doesn't do the lying, the heart does the lying," said
> Kimmel, the evangelical parenting author. "When you direct a form of
> discipline to a body part that created the problem, it's like in
[other
> cultures] when they cut off your hand for stealing."
>
> Ken Williams, executive director of Christian Counseling Associates
> Inc., in Columbia, accepts a connection between lying and the tongue,
> and allows that the use of hot sauce is "biblically supportable in
> principle." But "the inordinate pain and cruelty . . . wipes out
> anything that makes sense."
>
> Other authorities on religious education for children agree. For
> example, the Christian Homeschool Fellowship on the Web states on a
> prominent page of its site, "We do not believe that some discipline
> methods are appropriate -- such as applying hot sauce to the mouths
or
> tongues of children."
>
> Old vs. New
>
> Margaret McGowen of the District, a staff scientist for a trade
> association and the mother of a 17-month-old, is familiar with the
> intense feelings about hot sauce. McGowan's mother sauced her tongue
> when she was 3 and 4 years old, as punishment for telling fibs.
>
> "She told us the devil was dancing on our tongue, and she put a drop
of
> Tabasco on it to drive him away," said McGowen, who grew up in
Philadelphia.
>
> McGowen "couldn't connect" the idea of her tongue's getting punished
for
> a lie, though she remembers that "it really did discourage us from
> fibbing. All I had to do was see the bottle. Even if [my mother] was
> just using it for cooking or adding it to a recipe, it put fear in
me."
>
> McGowen will not pass her saucing experience down to her son.
>
> "I don't need to resort to chemical warfare," she said. Though she
does
> not blame her mother for the punishment "because she was probably
> ill-informed," McGowen believes that "today we are more educated
about
> the psychology of children."
>
> She still remembers the feeling of hot sauce on her tongue 30 years
ago:
> "It hurt. It burned. It was hard to get rid of the sensation."
>
> --
> Jez
> 'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
> notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too
often
> led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of
what
> that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
> skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
> Howard Zinn
>
>
> NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
Robibnikoff
"K.C." <kan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106072411....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> What does this have to do with atheism? It seems to deal with religion
> (not the belief that there is no God). Go post it to a religious
> group.
Kiss off, jackass. You don't make the rules on Usenet. Grow up and deal
with it.
John Baker
>What does this have to do with atheism? It seems to deal with religion
>(not the belief that there is no God). Go post it to a religious
>group.
What does anything you post have to do with atheism, dipshit?
K.C.
So you defend this guy for the very thing you condemned me for.
There's a word for that...hypocrisy.
Kevin Anthoney
:P
Robibnikoff
I'm not defending anyone. I'm just pointing out your own self-important
idiocy.
Jez
> What does this have to do with atheism? It seems to deal with religion
> (not the belief that there is no God). Go post it to a religious
> group.
>
New to this Usenet thing are you ?
Didn't you notice the 'OT' in the header ?
Top-posting isn't exactly smart either.
> Jez wrote:
>
>>Sick bastards.......
>>
>>
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52899-2004Aug9?language=printer
>
Mark K. Bilbo
<1106072411....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, K.C. lept out of
the bushes shouting:
> What does this have to do with atheism? It seems to deal with religion
> (not the belief that there is no God). Go post it to a religious group.
Keep it up Skippy. Your ISP's Acceptable Use Policy states:
"Posting off-topic articles or articles that are not related to that
group's subject matter as defined in the newsgroup's charter are also not
welcomed. Cross-posting identical postings to over five USENET groups,
posting for the purpose of threatening, harassing or intimidating USENET
group users and forging USENET post header information are also prohibited
activities."
You keep posting repetitive messages, trying to disrupt this newsgroup,
you could find your account shut down by your provider.
Mark K. Bilbo
<1106073215.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, K.C. lept out of
the bushes shouting:
> So you defend this guy for the very thing you condemned me for. There's a
> word for that...hypocrisy.
YOU VIOLATED THE FAQ, HE DID NOT.
Moron.
stoney
<gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote:
Moi? (bats the long lashed baby blues)
Psssst....that's Kaos, iirc.
stoney
<gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote:
Saw what? (wide-eyed)
stoney
...one grain at a time.....
stoney
In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
Robibnikoff
"stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
news:23gru0lfuf02r4clh...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:44:08 +0000, Kevin Anthoney
> <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>
>>> In our last episode <34vb89F...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept
>>> out
>>> of the bushes shouting:
snip
>>>> Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
>>>
>>> Napping?
>>
>>Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
>
> In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
Eh! Somebody there?!? <glances about furtively, snorts> Damn kids! <goes
back to painting gleaming white skull on black box surrounded by wild
flowers>
Mark K. Bilbo
Gary Bohn
news:ktfru0h71a656ee9e...@4ax.com:
Psssst...I was talking about the probabilistic complex system that
tripped you up. Your sneeky brain.
Gary Bohn
stoney
<gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote:
I can't help it if beautiful women cause me to trip over my tongue....
stoney
stoney
<gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote:
>Thanks, I owe you.
<evil chuckle>
stoney
the flowers nibble on robyn's nose....
they're nose gobblins....
stoney
A pastel plaid perhaps?
stoney
<iced_...@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote:
>K.C. wrote:
>> What does this have to do with atheism? It seems to deal with religion
>> (not the belief that there is no God). Go post it to a religious
>> group.
>>
>
>New to this Usenet thing are you ?
>
>Didn't you notice the 'OT' in the header ?
>
>Top-posting isn't exactly smart either.
Since when has KC shown any signs of intelligence?
Mark K. Bilbo
lept out of the bushes shouting:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:31:36 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
> <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
>>news:23gru0lfuf02r4clh...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:44:08 +0000, Kevin Anthoney
>>> <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In our last episode <34vb89F...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff
>>>>> lept out
>>>>> of the bushes shouting:
>>
>>snip
>>>>>> Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
>>>>>
>>>>> Napping?
>>>>
>>>>Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
>>>
>>> In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
>>
>>Eh! Somebody there?!? <glances about furtively, snorts> Damn kids! <goes
>>back to painting gleaming white skull on black box surrounded by wild
>>flowers>
>
> the flowers nibble on robyn's nose.... they're nose gobblins....
Nose gobblins?
No, no, that's okay, no need to explain...
Robibnikoff
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:31:36 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
> <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
>>news:23gru0lfuf02r4clh...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:44:08 +0000, Kevin Anthoney
>>> <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In our last episode <34vb89F...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept
>>>>> out
>>>>> of the bushes shouting:
>>
>>snip
>>>>>> Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
>>>>>
>>>>> Napping?
>>>>
>>>>Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
>>>
>>> In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
>>
>>Eh! Somebody there?!? <glances about furtively, snorts> Damn kids! <goes
>>back to painting gleaming white skull on black box surrounded by wild
>>flowers>
>
> the flowers nibble on robyn's nose....
> they're nose gobblins....
Those are MAGIC nose goblins, I'll have you know! :)
Robibnikoff
You guys are crazy!
I'm Brian Fellow! :)
Mark K. Bilbo
of the bushes shouting:
You just noticed?
> I'm Brian Fellow! :)
First she's shrinking, then she's growing, now she's morphing...
Mark K. Bilbo
of the bushes shouting:
>
> "stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
> news:8vqtu01tais27jumv...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:31:36 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
>> <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
>>>news:23gru0lfuf02r4clh...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:44:08 +0000, Kevin Anthoney
>>>> <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In our last episode <34vb89F...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff
>>>>>> lept out
>>>>>> of the bushes shouting:
>>>
>>>snip
>>>>>>> Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Napping?
>>>>>
>>>>>Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
>>>>
>>>> In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
>>>
>>>Eh! Somebody there?!? <glances about furtively, snorts> Damn kids!
>>><goes back to painting gleaming white skull on black box surrounded by
>>>wild flowers>
>>
>> the flowers nibble on robyn's nose.... they're nose gobblins....
>
> Those are MAGIC nose goblins, I'll have you know! :)
Okay...
This is another one of those sex acts Tukla's never heard of isn't it?
Robibnikoff
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote in message
WTF?!? What are you?!? Some kind of sicko?!? :)
Mark K. Bilbo
of the bushes shouting:
Your point?
Robibnikoff
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote in message
SNARK! Got me there! :)
Mark K. Bilbo
of the bushes shouting:
No, no, not there.
Here...
Robibnikoff
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote in message
Hey now!! You're not that kinda guy! :)
Mark K. Bilbo
of the bushes shouting:
I take it you didn't notice it was your husband who yelped...
Robibnikoff
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote in message
I wondered what that high pitched sound was. I just thought the cats were
fighting again ;)
stoney
<witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>
>"stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
>news:8vqtu01tais27jumv...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:31:36 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
>> <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
>>>news:23gru0lfuf02r4clh...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:44:08 +0000, Kevin Anthoney
>>>> <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In our last episode <34vb89F...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> of the bushes shouting:
>>>
>>>snip
>>>>>>> Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Napping?
>>>>>
>>>>>Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
>>>>
>>>> In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
>>>
>>>Eh! Somebody there?!? <glances about furtively, snorts> Damn kids! <goes
>>>back to painting gleaming white skull on black box surrounded by wild
>>>flowers>
>>
>> the flowers nibble on robyn's nose....
>> they're nose gobblins....
>
>Those are MAGIC nose goblins, I'll have you know! :)
:))))
stoney
Ok.
stoney
<witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>
>"stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
>news:e0rtu09bpda8mksq3...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:55:38 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
>> <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
>>
>>>In our last episode <23gru0lfuf02r4clh...@4ax.com>, stoney
>>>lept out of the bushes shouting:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:44:08 +0000, Kevin Anthoney
>>>> <kevin_a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In our last episode <34vb89F...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept
>>>>>> out of the bushes shouting:
[]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you trying to say that men don't pay attention to women?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we are thick?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what she was saying. I wasn't listening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What who was saying?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Some woman was flapping her gums, apparently. Probably nothing
>>>>>>>>>>> important.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's that noise again. Does anyone know if there's a "mute"
>>>>>>>>> button?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You heard something?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Napping?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
>>>>
>>>> In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
>>>
>>>I was actually thinking stripes myself...
>>
>> A pastel plaid perhaps?
>
>You guys are crazy!
We told you but, just like a woman, you didn't listen......
(MONSTER grin)
>I'm Brian Fellow! :)
/caterwauling
For she's a jolly good fellow.....
stoney
<alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
>In our last episode <3588omF...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept out
>of the bushes shouting:
>
>>
>> "stoney" <sto...@the.net> wrote in message
>> news:e0rtu09bpda8mksq3...@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:55:38 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
>>> <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In our last episode <23gru0lfuf02r4clh...@4ax.com>, stoney
>>>>lept out of the bushes shouting:
[]
>>>>>>>>>>>> Some woman was flapping her gums, apparently. Probably nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>> important.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's that noise again. Does anyone know if there's a "mute"
>>>>>>>>>> button?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You heard something?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Napping?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
>>>>>
>>>>> In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
>>>>
>>>>I was actually thinking stripes myself...
>>>
>>> A pastel plaid perhaps?
>>
>> You guys are crazy!
>
>You just noticed?
>
>> I'm Brian Fellow! :)
>
>First she's shrinking, then she's growing, now she's morphing...
Spell rebound's a bitch....
Mark K. Bilbo
lept out of the bushes shouting:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:45:55 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
> <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
>
>>In our last episode <359tu3F...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept
>>out of the bushes shouting:
>>
>>
>>> "Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote in message
>>> news:j9CdnV6gT9f...@megapath.net...
>>>> In our last episode <359lqkF...@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept
>>>> out of the bushes shouting:
>
> []
>
>>>>>>>>>>>snip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grumble, grumble, bricka, bracka, snerk, aaaaaagh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Napping?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Either that or she's arguing with a lamp post.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In which case, Robyn needs to get her eyes checked.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Eh! Somebody there?!? <glances about furtively, snorts> Damn
>>>>>>>>>>>kids! <goes back to painting gleaming white skull on black box
>>>>>>>>>>>surrounded by wild flowers>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the flowers nibble on robyn's nose.... they're nose gobblins....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Those are MAGIC nose goblins, I'll have you know! :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is another one of those sex acts Tukla's never heard of isn't
>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WTF?!? What are you?!? Some kind of sicko?!? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your point?
>>>>>
>>>>> SNARK! Got me there! :)
>>>>
>>>> No, no, not there.
>>>>
>>>> Here...
>>>
>>> Hey now!! You're not that kinda guy! :)
>>
>>I take it you didn't notice it was your husband who yelped...
>
> MMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHH
You know, he did get a strange smile on his face...
stoney
<alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
{redoubled}