Religious Beliefs Require no Evidence

[Viktor Tandofsky]

http://faculty.valenciacollege.edu/drogers/factopinion/belieffact3.html#:~:text=Often%2C%20people%20confuse%20belief%20with,often%20related%20to%20another%20concept.


Faith: Unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not require proof or evidence.
Having faith in something means no proof is required. This is often the case when it comes to religious views. In fact, the nature of religion is based on the fact that no proofs are required. This is because religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of human perceptions or understanding.

[Mitchell Holman]

Viktor Tandofsky <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:d6c787dc-e77c-4bab...@googlegroups.com:

> http://faculty.valenciacollege.edu/drogers/factopinion/belieffact3.htm
> l#:~:text=Often%2C%20people%20confuse%20belief%20with,often%20related%
> 20to%20

> another%20concept.
>
>
> Faith: Unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not
> require proof or evidence. Having faith in something means no proof is
> required. This is often the case when it comes to religious views. In
> fact, the nature of religion is based on the fact that no proofs are
> required. This is because religion covers ideas and topics that are
> beyond the ability of human perceptions or understanding.
>

Science flys you to the moon.

Faith flys you into buildings.

[lordofal...@gmail.com]

Ambrose Bierce summed up that mindset brilliantly, Artie:
Faith: n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

[Tim]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 7:57:57 AM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:

So it's safe to say that no theist makes sense, and no theist knows what they are talking about. Way to go theism!

You are an idiot.

[John Locke]

....if religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of
human perceptions or understanding, then what's the point of being
"religious " ???


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question
itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no
time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the
edge of the Earth" - Stephen Hawking. RIP.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Viktor Tandofsky]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 8:52:51 AM UTC-8, John Locke wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 04:57:54 -0800 (PST), Viktor Tandofsky
> <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://faculty.valenciacollege.edu/drogers/factopinion/belieffact3.html#:~:text=Often%2C%20people%20confuse%20belief%20with,often%20related%20to%20another%20concept.
> >
> >Faith: Unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not require proof or evidence.
> >Having faith in something means no proof is required. This is often the case when it comes
> > to religious views. In fact, the nature of religion is based on the fact that no proofs are required.
> >This is because religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of human
> >perceptions or understanding.
> >
> ....if religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of
> human perceptions or understanding, then what's the point of being
> "religious " ???
>
>

We don't need a point to believe anything we want to believe and we also don't need the approval of arrogant jackasses like you.

[Cloud Hobbit]

You need something to pull your head out of your ass.

It makes sense that if you agree to believe something, it should
be based in demonstrable truth, rather than imagination and
wishful thinking. Theists seem to skip this and go straight to
believing in fantasy. Worse, they claim that their fantasy is real, so
they see nothing wrong in insisting that their fantasy is true.
In spite of zero evidence of the flood of Noah, Jewish slaves in
Egypt, the Exodus, and its imaginary leader, Moses.

Yes, you can believe anything you choose.
This is an atheist NG and therefore populated by many atheists who
can and will explain why what you believe is bullshit.

Based on objective reality and the evidence, there is no reason
to believe in any of the gods invented by humans. It means you're
not a critical thinker, or more correctly, you're a dumb ass.


There are no gods unless we create them.

[Michelle Malkin]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 7:57:57 AM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:

And, people who believe such nonsense as believing without evidence have no brain.

[Michelle Malkin]

So, you admit that believe only what you want to believe. True narcissism.
But then, we already knew that about you.

[Cloud Hobbit]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 10:17:35 AM UTC-8, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:

Then why do you try so hard to get us to believe the
crap you believe, like the Exodus?

[Michelle Malkin]

Because he actually can't believe that anyone disagrees with him.
Anyone who disagrees with him is either totally wrong or in denial.
ArtieJoe really believes that he is always right, even when he's
wrong. So, he tries to convince us that he is always right, even when
he's wrong. It's a mental illness, narcissism, that probably developed
when he was in his late teens or early twenties. Much has been
learned about narcissism over the last ten years. Before that, many
people refused to accept that such a medical condition even existed.
Several trolls seem to suffer from it, such as Robert Duncan, MichaelX
(Steven Nash), Andrew and Michael Yost. They seem to spend all their
time on the Internet trying to control people. They rarely do.

https://enough-foundation.com/narcissist/?gclid=CjwKCAiAlrSPBhBaEiwAuLSDUOPj7BBR0VeaE90UM9WKilOD9NKEHBIG-DN5qfm8dOIJYtZudfFDZRoCZqEQAvD_BwE

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder.htm#:~:text=Narcissistic%20personality%20disorder%20involves%20a,selfish%2C%20patronizing%2C%20and%20demanding.

[hhya...@gmail.com]

Well, non-existence is beyond the ability of human perception and understanding which is just another name for religious scam....that is - scamming for money in return for a pixie?

[hhya...@gmail.com]

You don't need a point?
Religion has been in existence for thousands of years, but when has a pixie descended upon the human society????
However, uncountable amount of money have been given to religious bodies to allow them to survive!!!!!!
The trillions of tithes and donations spent on religions could benefit the society in a way unimaginable...

[Viktor Tandofsky]

People can spend their money any way they want and what you want does not mean shit.
You are a retarded useless nobody and your opinion is not worth shit.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

All your ranting and raving is useless and will convince nobody. What a complete fool you are.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

You know nothing about Judaism so you lied about your family.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

I present evidence to prove you are a liar.

[Tim]

Says the guy who believes in things he readily admits "are beyond the ability of human perceptions or understanding." And you claim I'm the fool! Tell us, tandy tard, where is the sense in believing in things that "are beyond the ability of human perceptions or understanding"?

You are an idiot.

[Tim]

No evidence there, idiot.

[hhya...@gmail.com]

Of course any one can spend his money the way he wants...
But, to hand out his money in the belief that he is to be rewarded with the kindness of a pixie is a con game!!!
Mad Joe loves to have his money conned!!!

[hhya...@gmail.com]

What evidence you have gathered for the exodus?
It was just a made up story!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Viktor Tandofsky]

You are wasting your time and energy. I don't believe a word you say.

[Tim]

LOL! Says the guy who claims beliefs are not claims and who believes in things which "are beyond the ability of human perceptions or understanding." You don't appear to have a clue about what you believe, idiot.

[Kevrob]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 8:40:29 AM UTC-5, Tim wrote:
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 8:26:30 AM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:

[snip]

.
> > You are wasting your time and energy. I don't believe a word you say.
> LOL! Says the guy who claims beliefs are not claims and who believes in things
> which "are beyond the ability of human perceptions or understanding." You don't
> appear to have a clue about what you believe, idiot.

Re: "faith w/o evidence" -

[quote]

David Hume | Scottish Enlightenment philosopher

Hume was an empiricist, arguing that we should only believe those things for which we have good evidence,
and has been a major influence on the development of Anglo-American philosophy. He is still frequently
cited, for example on miracles. In Section X of "An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding," he argues
that the evidence for miracles is not strong enough in view of their inherent improbability:

"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence"…and should "always reject the greater miracle."

Hume believed that morality was based on feelings of sympathy with other people, and that benevolence
towards others tends "to promote the interests of our species, and bestow happiness on human society."
Hume himself was a happy and benevolent man, believing that the recipe for happiness was moderation
and variety. The essayist James Boswell was puzzled by what he saw as the contradiction between Hume’s
evident goodness and his lack of religion, but Hume told him that "the Morality of every Religion was bad and
…that when he heard a man was religious, he concluded that he was a rascal, though he had known some
instances of very good men being religious."

[/quote] - https://humanists.uk/humanism/the-humanist-tradition/enlightenment/david-hume/

People are FREE to rely on faith, of course, they just aren't wise to do so, IMO.

Tandy and the other trolls could do with studying some epistemology.
--
Kevin R
a.a #2310

[Tim]

Good luck with that. Tardy "thinks" beliefs are not claims. He can't even count to thirty.


> Kevin R
> a.a #2310
0

[Michelle Malkin]

The theist trolls wouldn't care about epistemology.
They were never here to learn anything. They just
want to convince us that they are right about
religion or whatever so they can gain some kind of
control over us. They also aren't interested in any
kind of morality.

moral: concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
morality: https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+morality
http://www.differencebetween.net/science/health/difference-between-ontology-and-epistemology/

[Davej]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 6:57:57 AM UTC-6, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:
> [...senile blather...]


Beliefs in Zeus, Allah, Yahweh, Elohim, Ra require no evidence, because blood cannot be required from a turnip.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

Quoting atheists is useless in matters of religion. What a stupid asshole you are.
Wise??? Was Dwight Eisenhower wise? How about John F Kennedy? How about Robert Kennedy?
How about William F Buckley? If you were wise, you would not have claimed I said I was a lawyer without checking with the Bar association. You are a ludicrous lying clown.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

You have the IQ of a turnip.

[Michelle Malkin]

My family is Jewish. Anyone can find that out very easily.
The ones that have doubts about whether or not you are
still Jewish, as you claim, are the ones you lie about most.
You used to claim that I was still Jewish since I had a
Jewish mother. Now, all of a sudden you claim I'm not
Jewish. Please, make up your mind. If you have one, that is.

Actually, I haven't claimed to be Jewish since I was twelve years old
and realized the Jewish god was a fairy tale. I am an atheist/ Secular
Humanist. Only my father knew this, and I didn't tell him until I was 18.
He wasn't happy about it but, he promised not to tell my mother. He
never did tell her. When I was an adult, I told other members of my
family. They weren't happy about it but, the general consensus was
that, as long as I was a good person, it didn't matter. So, ArtieJoe,
believe whatever you want to make up about me; I really don't care.

[Michelle Malkin]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 8:26:30 AM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:

You only believe what you say, right or wrong. That's why your opinion
is worthless.

[Michelle Malkin]

Elohim is an ancient Hebrew way of saying gods (plural).

And, yes, Christians who are unable to or refuse to back
up their beliefs with evidence are turnips.

[Michelle Malkin]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 11:52:51 AM UTC-5, John Locke wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 04:57:54 -0800 (PST), Viktor Tandofsky

> <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://faculty.valenciacollege.edu/drogers/factopinion/belieffact3.html#:~:text=Often%2C%20people%20confuse%20belief%20with,often%20related%20to%20another%20concept.
> >
> >Faith: Unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not require proof or evidence.
> >Having faith in something means no proof is required. This is often the case when it comes
> > to religious views. In fact, the nature of religion is based on the fact that no proofs are required.
> >This is because religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of human
> >perceptions or understanding.
> >

> ....if religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of
> human perceptions or understanding, then what's the point of being
> "religious " ???

When you're religious, you have to believe in things without proof
or they'll call you something like 'faithless'. That's why religious is
so phony. You have to accept it on faith (belief without proof) or
you aren't one of the gang, a sinner, someone who should be put
to death unless there are laws against that to protect freedpm
of thought.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question
> itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no
> time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the
> edge of the Earth" - Stephen Hawking. RIP.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Michelle Malkin]

He simply disagrees with you. What is your problem?
You can't force everyone in the world to agree with you.

[%]

lots of things are faith based

[Michelle Malkin]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 1:17:35 PM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 8:52:51 AM UTC-8, John Locke wrote:
> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 04:57:54 -0800 (PST), Viktor Tandofsky
> > <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > http://faculty.valenciacollege.edu/drogers/factopinion/belieffact3.html#:~:text=Often%2C%20people%20confuse%20belief%20with,often%20related%20to%20another%20concept.
> > >
> > >Faith: Unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not require proof or evidence.
> > >Having faith in something means no proof is required. This is often the case when it comes
> > > to religious views. In fact, the nature of religion is based on the fact that no proofs are required.
> > >This is because religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of human
> > >perceptions or understanding.
> > >
> > ....if religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of
> > human perceptions or understanding, then what's the point of being
> > "religious " ???
> >
> >

> We don't need a point to believe anything we want to believe and we also don't need the approval of arrogant jackasses like you.

The believer is the one who doesn't require proof.
Non-believers do require proof. So, if you have no
proof or refuse to present any, non-believers don't
have to believe what believers believe. Can you get
that through your thick skull, ArtieJoe?

[Michelle Malkin]

You're the one doing all the ranting and raving, ArtieJoe.
That's only one of the reasons no one believes what you
say. That's why you, like Gnash, Duncan, Yost and Andrew
have no followers.

[Michelle Malkin]

Science believes in research, not just acceptance like religion does.

[Cloud Hobbit]

No, you do not my. You present opinions from people who agree
with you, none of them from mainstream archaeology.
You tried to get us to believe a survey of 9 Egyptologists we're
the current thinking by most archaeologists, you lied. Again.

[Kevrob]

He wasn't conventionally religious, either.

> How about John F Kennedy?

If he was a "good Catholic" he must have spent half his time doing penance .

Adulterer. Slept with suspected Nazi spy, also w/a gangster's moll. Screwed
up Bay of Pigs. He should have provided air cover for the Bay of Pigs landing
or called it off. Fish or cut bait, but half-assing it was stupid. Screwed up
regarding NATO missiles in Turkey, inviting Russian retaliation in Cuba.
Allowing the Diem assassination was another "genius move."

Good points: cut marginal tax rates.

> How about Robert Kennedy?

Adulterer. Illegally bugged organized crime victims,
and Martin Lither King, Jr. Supported McCarthy's
excesses as a Senate staffer.

> How about William F Buckley?

He was another defender of McCarthy, and made common cause
with "state's rights" segregationists when he should have
been a champion of individual rights. He cavalierly suggested
we use nukes against China, and in Viet Nam.

WFB was a favorite of mine when I was young. He had a libertarian
side he would tease reader with, from time to time, but, when his
side was in power, or close to reaching it, he could support state
power as a practical matter. [The draft, limiting the civil rights
of those infected with HIV, etc ]

He did decide the drug war was futile, and he did "excommunicate"
the Birchers and other anti-Semites from the conservative movement.

> If you were wise, you would not have claimed I said I was a lawyer without checking
> with the Bar association.

*******************************************************************************************


I have pointed out how Tandy paltered:

From this thread:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.atheism/Z7WuuRq0g4g

Message-ID: <6e79539f-2606-4301...@googlegroups.com>

{QUOTE}

Tandy did, at least once, call himself a Naval Prosecutor, and
told us he attended U of I Law without bothering to tell us
he withdrew after 1 year: a "lie by omission."

[quote]

I attended Law school at the University of Illinois in
Champaign. You can check their records if you don't believe
me. I also practiced criminal law as a prosecutor in the Navy
for 4 years.

[quote] from:

Message-ID: <0f190f59-c420-4005...@m5g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

22 July, 2011
See also:

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C0f190f59-c420-4005-b918-78c673c26af2%40m5g2000prh.googlegroups.com%3E OR

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/alt.atheism/aod7Q3zB-b4/nYrs2c3fGWgJ

Note he didn't originally tell us he attended UofI Law for 1 year,
allowing those who don't read closely to assume he went the full 3.
"Lying by omission," the good faddas and sistas called it back when
I was in Catholic school.

Now, is it fair to claim being a non-JAG "legal officer" on
board ship to be "practicing law?" State bar associations
would probably say "no."

It's easy to deal with this, Tandy. Just say "I expressed that
incorrectly."

{/Quote}

I still say, that when one claims to have "practiced law," that is
an equivalent claim to "I am/was a lawyer."

Practicing law without a license is generally not permitted in
the US, though there are paralegals and some limited license
legal technicians in states like Washington. Since the Navy
would follow its own rules, under Federal, not state law, Tandy
doing what he did do was perfectly legal. He certainly wasn't a
JAG lawyer, though, or anything near it. And rules for non-lawyers
doing work that used to be the sole province of licensed lawyers have
loosened over the years. A paralegal may work in a law practice,
but isn't a full-fledged lawyer.

Again, the record has been corrected, but let's not forget that
Tandy tried to slide this past us, in a case of "claiming false
expertise," but got caught.

-------------------------------------------------------

Anybody who reads this can judge how truthful Tandy was on
this issue, before correcting the record.

I think it is plain that he was attempting to paint himself
with the authority of credentials he never had. That's
one man's opinion, of course.
*********************************************************************

> You are a ludicrous lying clown.

You repeat the same old crap that we have already refuted. Don't get
pissed off if the rebuttals are dragged out of the archives and reposted.

[lordofal...@gmail.com]

Poor Artie Joe has, in his own words, "the IQ of a turnip".
The problem is he also suffers from one of the more epic cases of Dunning-Kruger than I've ever witnessed.
It's sad, but it's also grand theater to see it unfold.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

You made assumptions on the basis of your ignorance of Navy procedures. The Navy does not require a lawyer to administer Navy law. Only idiots like you assume that it does. You could have found the truth by checking with the Bar Association but you don't want the truth. You are a stupid liar and lazy motherfucker.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

The issue is wisdom, you stupid babbling jackass. You can't even understand what you read.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

ROTFL! Epistemology is the study of knowledge, you stupid fuck. Religion and faith are not knowledge. What a useless bullshitter you are.

[El Kabong]

So you mean the navy allows one to "practice law" without
being a lawyer?

And you are saying that you in fact "practiced law" in
the navy?

> You could have found the truth by checking with the Bar Association but you don't want the truth. You are a stupid liar and lazy motherfucker.

"Hello, The Bar Association? Can you tell me if Artie
Joe Tandy practiced law as a navy prosecutor legally or
illegally?"

[Viktor Tandofsky]

The Bar Association never heard of me, you fucking dunce.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:26:31 PM UTC-8, El Kabong wrote:

YOU DON'T HAVE THE BALLS TO CALL THE BAR ASSOCIATION, YOU STUPID CLOWN.

[Mitchell Holman]

Viktor Tandofsky <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:d54f45b5-9192-4769...@googlegroups.com:

> Religion and faith are not knowledge.

Then what do religious colleges teach
and test their students on?

[Christopher A. Lee]

Impossibilities like Genesis creation, Noah's flood, virgin births,
resurrection etc whi \ch functioning minds realise never happened -
which is why so many religious fanatics are idiots.

[El Kabong]

So "The Bar Association" would have confirmed that you
were lying.

Thanks for admitting that.

[Kevrob]

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:12:46 AM UTC-5, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:56:41 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <noe...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >Viktor Tandofsky <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >news:d54f45b5-9192-4769...@googlegroups.com:
> >
> >
> >> Religion and faith are not knowledge.
> >
> >
> > Then what do religious colleges teach
> >and test their students on?
> Impossibilities like Genesis creation, Noah's flood, virgin births,

> resurrection etc which functioning minds realise never happened -

> which is why so many religious fanatics are idiots.

..and academic theology, which is basically philosophy applied to
the questions religion tries to grapple with.

Faith is an alleged method of achieving knowledge, whether through
experiencing the numinous directly, receiving revelation, reading about
those who claimed to have had those experiences and/or reading or
listening to the alleged revelations as written down in scripture and
following rituals, often based on those.

The question should be: "Is faith a good method for obtaining knowledge?"

Plainly, I'd say, "No."

[Viktor Tandofsky]

Faith is not designed to obtain knowledge, you stupid jackass.

[Michael Christ]

Then you have no understanding of what it is to be human.

Without faith...in whatever...you would simply cease to exist.

How can you know anything without experience, and how can you gain
experience without faith?







Michael Christ




--
Jesus is the Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely a straw man, to a straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator. So
no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

[El Kabong]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 26/01/2022 3:20 am, Kevrob wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:12:46 AM UTC-5, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> >> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:56:41 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> >> <noe...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>> Viktor Tandofsky <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>

> >>>> Religion and faith are not knowledge.
> >>>
> >>> Then what do religious colleges teach
> >>> and test their students on?
> >> Impossibilities like Genesis creation, Noah's flood, virgin births,
> >> resurrection etc which functioning minds realise never happened -
> >> which is why so many religious fanatics are idiots.
> >
> > ..and academic theology, which is basically philosophy applied to
> > the questions religion tries to grapple with.
> >
> > Faith is an alleged method of achieving knowledge, whether through
> > experiencing the numinous directly, receiving revelation, reading about
> > those who claimed to have had those experiences and/or reading or
> > listening to the alleged revelations as written down in scripture and
> > following rituals, often based on those.
>
>
> > The question should be: "Is faith a good method for obtaining knowledge?"
> >
> > Plainly, I'd say, "No."
>
> Then you have no understanding of what it is to be human.
>
> Without faith...in whatever...you would simply cease to exist.

Right, this happens to atheists all the time. They are
walking down the street, and suddenly there's a loud
"pop!" as air rushes in to fill the vacuum left behind by
the instant disappearance of the atheist.

The death certificate usually lists the cause of death as
faithlessness.

> How can you know anything without experience, and how can you gain
> experience without faith?

Everyone knows knowledge is impossible unless you make
shit up.

[Michelle Malkin]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 3:54:42 PM UTC-5, % wrote:

Lots of faith-based beliefs have nothing to do with religion.

[John Locke]

...you gain experience from real life, NOT from a childish
fairy tale, replete with magical deities and demons !

[Michelle Malkin]

Religious faith has nothing to do with knowledge.
It is a lock on your mind. It doesn't allow you to
learn anything new.

[John Locke]

...yep, a whole lot of people have faith that there are alien reptiles
from Beta Reticuli living amongst us or that Bigfoot is camping out in
somewhere in the deep wilderness !

[Michelle Malkin]

Religious faith isn't the only king of faith there is.
I have faith in scientific research. The results may
not be what I'm hoping for, but, eventually, there are
results. Religious faith (belief without evidence) is
a dead end mindlock.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

How do you lock a mind, you idiot? Show us some examples.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

Name them and show proof.

[Mitchell Holman]

Viktor Tandofsky <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:65b425ed-bb48-4ca5...@googlegroups.com:

So a religious education is no education at all.

[Mitchell Holman]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ssq088$l47$1...@dont-email.me:

There was a time when YOU had no faith, remember?

>
> How can you know anything without experience, and how can you gain
> experience without faith?

What you learn from experience is learning
from experience, not faith.

[John Locke]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:01:53 -0800 (PST), Viktor Tandofsky

...here, I'll get you started. This is just the tip of the iceberg:

American Bigfoot Society
http://americanbigfootsociety166.weebly.com/what-is-the-american-bigfoot-society.html
The American Bigfoot Society is an organization comprised of men and
women, from across the country and around the world, who all share the
common goal of documenting what has been described as an Upright
Bipedal North American Primate. The American Bigfoot Society accepts
members who are independents or even those who run their own
organizations. The American Bigfoot Society's membership list is
comprised of everyone from Academics to "blue collar workers." Our
members are hunters, fishermen, hikers, campers, Doctors, businessmen
and women. Some have had their own sighting, some have not.

The World Is Controlled by a Group of Elite Reptiles
https://u.osu.edu/vanzandt/2018/04/18/the-world-is-controlled-by-a-group-of-elite-reptiles/comment-page-1/
Although there is no real scientific evidence or much evidence at all
for this theory; there is an incredible amount of people who actually
believe that this is true – 12 million Americans to be exact and even
more people worldwide. How can so many people really believe something
that seems so ridiculous? Once reason could stem from extreme
cognitive dissonance: these people want to believe that human beings
are inherently good and just, but with all the wars and destruction
and evil in the world is causes cognitive dissonance because it shows
that people aren’t really good but instead of accepting that fact,
they blame it on some other species, “we humans wouldn’t do something
like this, it must be the evil reptiles that are controlling us making
us do such evil things.”

[Kevrob]

Just asserting that doesn't make it so. Others think otherwise.
I don 't think their take is valid, but many are sold on it.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/faith/#FaiKno

> So a religious education is no education at all.

My religious education was so good, I figured out religion was
bunk!

[Liberal Arts BA, double major in History & Political Science
with 9 credits (3 courses) in Theology & 12 (4 courses) in
philosophy. University was founded by the RC Society of Jesus.
I had several Jesuit instructors. Over 15% of my coursework was
in either PHIL or THEO. This was after 12 years of Catholic el-hi
instruction.]

Catholic in -joke: Jesuits turn out the most brilliant intellectual
believers, along with the most dangerous apostates!

[Mitchell Holman]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote in
news:f76470b6-1723-4c99...@googlegroups.com:

Ditto. I went to a private Presbyterian
college, the professors knew the Bible well
and taught it well - but "reserved" their
personal opinions on it.

[Michelle Malkin]

You trap peoples' minds with the fear of a non-existent hell,
threats of being kicked out of the religion or sect, shunned
or thrown out of their family or just plain old keep them
ignorant. There are lots of ways of closing a person's mind.

You are a prime example, ArtieJoe. You insist that your
religious beliefs are right no matter how many times
you are shown proof that you are wrong. Of course, in
your case, your narcissism probably has a lot to do with that.
Fundamentalist Christians are also good examples of this.
Many of them won't even send their kids to non-religious
colleges or universities such as MIT or the University of
Pennsylvania for fear of their learning something their religion
disapproves of. They might even -horrors - learn to think for
themselves!

[Michael Christ]

Piss off, idiot.

Thank you.

[Michael Christ]

On 26/01/2022 12:09 pm, John Locke wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:14:16 +1100, Michael Christ
> <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 26/01/2022 3:20 am, Kevrob wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:12:46 AM UTC-5, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:56:41 -0600, Mitchell Holman
>>>> <noe...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Viktor Tandofsky <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:d54f45b5-9192-4769...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Religion and faith are not knowledge.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then what do religious colleges teach
>>>>> and test their students on?
>>>> Impossibilities like Genesis creation, Noah's flood, virgin births,
>>>> resurrection etc which functioning minds realise never happened -
>>>> which is why so many religious fanatics are idiots.
>>>
>>> ..and academic theology, which is basically philosophy applied to
>>> the questions religion tries to grapple with.
>>>
>>> Faith is an alleged method of achieving knowledge, whether through
>>> experiencing the numinous directly, receiving revelation, reading about
>>> those who claimed to have had those experiences and/or reading or
>>> listening to the alleged revelations as written down in scripture and
>>> following rituals, often based on those.
>>>
>>
>>
>>> The question should be: "Is faith a good method for obtaining knowledge?"
>>>
>>> Plainly, I'd say, "No."

Michael Christ wrote:
>> Then you have no understanding of what it is to be human.
>>
>> Without faith...in whatever...you would simply cease to exist.
>>
>> How can you know anything without experience, and how can you gain
>> experience without faith?

Moron atheist John wrote:
> ...you gain experience from real life, NOT from a childish
> fairy tale, replete with magical deities and demons !

You are a defiant ignorant fool, John.

Great choice.

Enjoy the time you have left.






Michael Christ

>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question
> itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no
> time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the
> edge of the Earth" - Stephen Hawking. RIP.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

[El Kabong]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Piss off, idiot.

There's not much more you can say, is there?

Maybe you just don't have enough faith.

<snip>

[Michael Christ]

Piss off, idiot.

[El Kabong]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Piss off, idiot.

Just pointing out the obvious. Why does it enrage you so?

[Michelle Malkin]

An oldie but baddy from Stevie Gnash.
He never was very original.

[Michelle Malkin]

You can always tell when Stevie Gnash is upset.
He has no real response for the person he's
responding to, so he gets obscene.

[John Locke]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:28:25 +1100, Michael Christ

...I most certainly will because I won't be wasting
my natural given life groveling to a fictional magic man !

[El Kabong]

If that's it, he must be upset all the time.

That boy's gonna die any day now.

[Ted]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 04:57:54 -0800 (PST), Viktor Tandofsky
<vtand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
http://faculty.valenciacollege.edu/drogers/factopinion/belieffact3.html

#:~=
>
:text=Often%2C%20people%20confuse%20belief%20with,often%20related%20to%
20=

> another%20concept.




> Faith: Unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not

require pro=

> of or evidence.
> Having faith in something means no proof is required. This is often

the cas=

> e when it comes to religious views. In fact, the nature of religion

is base=

> d on the fact that no proofs are required. This is because religion

covers =

> ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of human perceptions

or unders=
> tanding.


Irrelevant silliness. Just what we've come to expect from you.

[Michael Christ]

Typical atheist moroning around ignoring the truth and hoping it'll go away.





Michael Christ

[Michael Christ]

We'll see about that.

You magic self-made creation day isn't over, Bubba. :-)







Michael Christ

>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question
> itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no
> time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the
> edge of the Earth" - Stephen Hawking. RIP.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

[Viktor Tandofsky]

You are a stupid liar. I never said my beliefs are right. If you knew anything about Judaism, you lying piece of shit, you would know we are not allowed to proselytize.
I have said numerous times religious beliefs are not facts and cannot be right or wrong.

DO YOU EVER STOP LYING?

[Kevrob]

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 11:37:01 PM UTC-5, Michael Christ wrote:
> Piss off, idiot.
> Michael Christ
>
>

Bad enough Gnashie is an off-Charter troll, but he's
also a top-poster with a bloated sig-file. I'm surprised
he doesn't TURN THE CAPS LOCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Viktor Tandofsky]

FUCK YOUR CHARTER AND FUCK YOU, YOU BABBLING MORON.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

You are obscene, you babbling moron.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

LINK INVALID
>

[Viktor Tandofsky]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:50:46 PM UTC-8, malkinmi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 8:40:06 PM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 4:32:30 PM UTC-8, hhya...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:17:35 AM UTC+8, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 8:52:51 AM UTC-8, John Locke wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 04:57:54 -0800 (PST), Viktor Tandofsky
> > > > > <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://faculty.valenciacollege.edu/drogers/factopinion/belieffact3.html#:~:text=Often%2C%20people%20confuse%20belief%20with,often%20related%20to%20another%20concept.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Faith: Unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not require proof or evidence.
> > > > > >Having faith in something means no proof is required. This is often the case when it comes
> > > > > > to religious views. In fact, the nature of religion is based on the fact that no proofs are required.
> > > > > >This is because religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of human
> > > > > >perceptions or understanding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > ....if religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of
> > > > > human perceptions or understanding, then what's the point of being
> > > > > "religious " ???
> > > > >
> > > > >

> > > > We don't need a point to believe anything we want to believe and we also don't need the approval of arrogant jackasses like you.
> > > You don't need a point?
> > > Religion has been in existence for thousands of years, but when has a pixie descended upon the human society????
> > > However, uncountable amount of money have been given to religious bodies to allow them to survive!!!!!!
> > > The trillions of tithes and donations spent on religions could benefit the society in a way unimaginable...
> > People can spend their money any way they want and what you want does not mean shit.
> > You are a retarded useless nobody and your opinion is not worth shit.
> He simply disagrees with you. What is your problem?
> You can't force everyone in the world to agree with you.

I will say anything I want, you filthy whore, and there is nothing you can do about it.

[Viktor Tandofsky]

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 5:07:09 PM UTC-8, malkinmi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 3:54:42 PM UTC-5, % wrote:
> > On 2022-01-24 1:47 p.m., Michelle Malkin wrote:

> > > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 11:52:51 AM UTC-5, John Locke wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 04:57:54 -0800 (PST), Viktor Tandofsky
> > >> <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> http://faculty.valenciacollege.edu/drogers/factopinion/belieffact3.html#:~:text=Often%2C%20people%20confuse%20belief%20with,often%20related%20to%20another%20concept.
> > >>>
> > >>> Faith: Unquestioning belief, trust, or confidence that does not require proof or evidence.
> > >>> Having faith in something means no proof is required. This is often the case when it comes
> > >>> to religious views. In fact, the nature of religion is based on the fact that no proofs are required.
> > >>> This is because religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of human
> > >>> perceptions or understanding.
> > >>>
> > >> ....if religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of
> > >> human perceptions or understanding, then what's the point of being
> > >> "religious " ???
> > >

> > > When you're religious, you have to believe in things without proof
> > > or they'll call you something like 'faithless'. That's why religious is
> > > so phony. You have to accept it on faith (belief without proof) or
> > > you aren't one of the gang, a sinner, someone who should be put
> > > to death unless there are laws against that to protect freedpm
> > > of thought.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> "When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question
> > >> itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no
> > >> time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the
> > >> edge of the Earth" - Stephen Hawking. RIP.
> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > lots of things are faith based
> Lots of faith-based beliefs have nothing to do with religion.

That's a LIE

Dictionary
Search for a word
faith-based
adjective
affiliated with or based on religion or a religious group.
"a faith-based plan that bilked investors out of millions"

[Tim]

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 6:14:20 PM UTC-5, Michael Christ wrote:
> On 26/01/2022 3:20 am, Kevrob wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:12:46 AM UTC-5, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> >> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:56:41 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> >> <noe...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Viktor Tandofsky <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>> news:d54f45b5-9192-4769...@googlegroups.com:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Religion and faith are not knowledge.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Then what do religious colleges teach
> >>> and test their students on?
> >> Impossibilities like Genesis creation, Noah's flood, virgin births,
> >> resurrection etc which functioning minds realise never happened -
> >> which is why so many religious fanatics are idiots.
> >
> > ..and academic theology, which is basically philosophy applied to
> > the questions religion tries to grapple with.
> >
> > Faith is an alleged method of achieving knowledge, whether through
> > experiencing the numinous directly, receiving revelation, reading about
> > those who claimed to have had those experiences and/or reading or
> > listening to the alleged revelations as written down in scripture and
> > following rituals, often based on those.
> >
>
>
> > The question should be: "Is faith a good method for obtaining knowledge?"
> >
> > Plainly, I'd say, "No."
> Then you have no understanding of what it is to be human.
>
> Without faith...in whatever...you would simply cease to exist.

I have no faith in your god, yet here I am still. You are an idiot.

>
> How can you know anything without experience, and how can you gain
> experience without faith?

Faith has nothing to do with experience, you brain dead moron.

[Kevrob]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 2:47:53 AM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:50:46 PM UTC-8, malkinmi...@gmail.com wrote:

[snip]

> > You can't force everyone in the world to agree with you.
>
> I will say anything I want, you filthy whore, and there is nothing you can do about it.

What is your damage? I can understand people even older than I am still suffering
from indoctrination in their youth by religion, but leveling misogynistic insults such
as describing a woman as a sex worker because she points out a truism?

It's been suggested here before that Tandy is addicted to rage. This seems to be
evidence for that hypothesis.

[groucho]

Where do you usually go to be insulted?

[/groucho]

--
Kevin R
a.a #231

[Viktor Tandofsky]

There are other kinds of faith in other things, you lying jackass.

> >
> > How can you know anything without experience, and how can you gain
> > experience without faith?
> Faith has nothing to do with experience, you brain dead moron.

That's complete bullshit. My life experiences have convinced me that Judaism is the best faith for me,

[El Kabong]

Speaking of the all-caps devil, and who shows up...

If Artie were smart enough to use a newsreader, he'd be
posting not just in caps, but in html with bold, 36-point
underlined red with flashing yellow background all-caps.

Lucky for us he can't get past google.

[Kevrob]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 2:58:06 AM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 11:52:25 PM UTC-8, Tim wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 6:14:20 PM UTC-5, Michael Christ wrote:
> > > On 26/01/2022 3:20 am, Kevrob wrote:

[snip]

> > > > Faith is an alleged method of achieving knowledge, whether through
> > > > experiencing the numinous directly, receiving revelation, reading about
> > > > those who claimed to have had those experiences and/or reading or
> > > > listening to the alleged revelations as written down in scripture and
> > > > following rituals, often based on those.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > The question should be: "Is faith a good method for obtaining knowledge?"
> > > >
> > > > Plainly, I'd say, "No."
> > > Then you have no understanding of what it is to be human.
> > >
> > > Without faith...in whatever...you would simply cease to exist.
> > I have no faith in your god, yet here I am still. You are an idiot.
> There are other kinds of faith in other things, you lying jackass.
> > >
> > > How can you know anything without experience, and how can you gain
> > > experience without faith?
> > Faith has nothing to do with experience, you brain dead moron.
> That's complete bullshit. My life experiences have convinced me that Judaism is the best faith for me,

Tandy seems to be conflating definitions for "faith."

A "Jewish atheist" could decide that Jewish ritual and ethics were
most socially advantageous for one, completely ignoring the question
of aligning one's habits with the reality that the box of evidence for
Yahooey contains bupkis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism

[quote]

Secularism has a long tradition in Jewish life in America, and most U.S. Jews seem to
recognize this: 62% say being Jewish is mainly a matter of ancestry and culture, while
just 15% say it is mainly a matter of religion. Even among Jews by religion, more than
half (55%) say being Jewish is mainly a matter of ancestry and culture, and two-thirds
say it is not necessary to believe in God to be Jewish.

[/quote] - 1 Oct, 2013 | A Portrait of Jewish Americans

https://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/jewish-american-beliefs-attitudes-culture-survey/

[El Kabong]

LOL. AJ, did you even read your example?

Are you saying that bilking investors out of millions is
all part of religion?

[El Kabong]

Link totally valid.

User incompetent.

[Tim]

You are an idiot. You claimed: "religion covers ideas and topics that are beyond the ability of human perceptions or understanding." You couldn't possibly then know what faith is best. And considering one can have faith in anything I'd say faith is a bad idea. Try reason instead, idiot.

[Kevrob]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 2:39:40 AM UTC-5, vtand...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 6:54:45 PM UTC-8, John Locke wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:01:53 -0800 (PST), Viktor Tandofsky
> > <vtand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >

[snip]

> > American Bigfoot Society
> > http://americanbigfootsociety166.weebly.com/what-is-the-american-bigfoot-society.html
> LINK INVALID

Worked for me: https://tinyurl.com/ABS-weebly

[Michael Christ]

SHUT UP KEVINLY.

You are too dumb to realise human beings walk by faith all the time.

Maybe you are still a monkey?

[Michael Christ]

I've seen clear evidence that Kevinly is a babbling moron lately.

Not that I needed any further confirmation.

[Michael Christ]

Malkin is one of the more obvious dummy atheists.

Of course, some of the other atheists find her embarrassing.

[Kevrob]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 3:59:12 AM UTC-5, Michael Christ wrote:
> On 26/01/2022 6:18 pm, Kevrob wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 11:37:01 PM UTC-5, Michael Christ wrote:
> >> Piss off, idiot.
> >> Michael Christ
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Bad enough Gnashie is an off-Charter troll, but he's
> > also a top-poster with a bloated sig-file. I'm surprised
> > he doesn't TURN THE CAPS LOCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> SHUT UP KEVINLY.
>

You don't get to give orders in a.a, disturbed theist troll.

> You are too dumb to realise human beings walk by faith all the time.
>
> Maybe you are still a monkey?

Some monkeys are better than some people.

Originally posted: Apr 19, 2017:

Say it in song- especially the first and last tracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qdMPxImd3E Dave Bartholomew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcB-JTAZQow Rolling Stones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckm3RSar9I8 Toots & the Maytals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEep67akIn4 The Kinks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMiDf3Q1QfI Nelson Brock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKs43dHBSWA The Banana Splits f/Bingo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSqYbqgyffM Harry Currie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X0NzFz8l0o The Monkees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_EyXPs2_Jk Elvis Costello & The Imposters

[Tim]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 3:59:12 AM UTC-5, Michael Christ wrote:

> On 26/01/2022 6:18 pm, Kevrob wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 11:37:01 PM UTC-5, Michael Christ wrote:
> >> Piss off, idiot.
> >> Michael Christ
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Bad enough Gnashie is an off-Charter troll, but he's
> > also a top-poster with a bloated sig-file. I'm surprised
> > he doesn't TURN THE CAPS LOCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> SHUT UP KEVINLY.
>
> You are too dumb to realise human beings walk by faith all the time.

Nope, they walk by learning how to balance. No faith required, shit 4 brains.

>
> Maybe you are still a monkey?

Maybe you should learn how to use a dictionary, dick head.