The Definition of Evil

[Astero...@yahoo.com]

Any discussion on the subject of evil must start with the definition of evil.

is evil a substance?

is evil a depravation?


is evil a preset state?

is evil an acquired trait?

Is evil a removal of good?


more could be said. it is meaningless to discuss evil without the definition.

[hhya...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 2:01:39 PM UTC+8, Astero...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Any discussion on the subject of evil must start with the definition of evil.
>
> is evil a substance?

No.
>
> is evil a depravation?

Depends.

>
>
> is evil a preset state?

May be.

>
> is evil an acquired trait?

For some.

>
> Is evil a removal of good?

Could be.

>
>
> more could be said. it is meaningless to discuss evil without the definition.

You are of Grade 1 standard???

[MarkA]

I don't really have a definition of evil. I suspect that it is related
to the concepts of "anti-social" and "unnecessarily cruel", but theists
seem to think it has some sort of cosmic significance.

--
MarkA

Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll
argue with you. -- John Wooden

[Wexford Eire]

Astro, we've been through this.

From Webster:

Full Definition of evil

evil·er or evil·lerevil·est or evil·lest

1
a: morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse>
b: arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>

2
a: archaic: inferior
b: causing discomfort or repulsion: offensive <an evil odor>
c: disagreeable <woke late and in an evil temper>

3
a: causing harm: pernicious <the evil institution of slavery>
b: marked by misfortune: unlucky

None of those uses of the word exclude the other uses. An evil odor can accompany an act of evil that was both unlucky and pernicious, and was morally reprehensible. Famine, plague, war, floods, hurricanes and tornadoes, are all harmful and therefore all evil.

What other words do you want defined? House? Dog? Cat? They're all in the dictionary. Like most pretentious rockheads you want to change the definition to meet your needs. Sorry, Sport, language isn't quite that malleable.

Here's another definition from Oxford (the Dons at Oxford agree with Webster)


1Profoundly immoral and malevolent:
‘his evil deeds’

‘no man is so evil as to be beyond redemption’

More example sentences Synonyms

1.1(Of a force or spirit) embodying or associated with the forces of the devil:
‘we have been driven out of the house by this evil spirit’

More example sentences

1.2Harmful or tending to harm:
‘the evil effects of high taxes’

More example sentences Synonyms

1.3(Of something seen or smelled) extremely unpleasant:
‘a bathroom with an evil smell’

Still More:


adjective


1 ‘an evil deed’

wicked, bad, wrong, immoral, sinful, foul, vile, dishonorable, corrupt, iniquitous, depraved, reprobate, villainous, nefarious, vicious, malicious;

malevolent, sinister, demonic, devilish, diabolical, fiendish, dark;

monstrous, shocking, despicable, atrocious, heinous, odious, contemptible, horrible, execrable

informal lowdown, dirty

[Antonyms] good, virtuous

2 ‘an evil spirit’

cruel, mischievous, pernicious, malignant, malign, baleful, vicious;
destructive, harmful, hurtful, injurious, detrimental, deleterious, inimical, bad, ruinous

[Antonyms] good, beneficial



3 ‘an evil smell’

unpleasant, disagreeable, nasty, horrible, foul, disgusting, filthy, vile, noxious

[Antonyms] pleasant


noun

1 ‘the evil in our midst’

wickedness, bad, badness, wrongdoing, sin, ill, immorality, vice, iniquity, degeneracy, corruption, depravity, villainy, nefariousness, malevolence; devil
formal turpitude


2 ‘nothing but evil would ensue’

harm, pain, misery, sorrow, suffering, trouble, disaster, misfortune, catastrophe, affliction, woe, hardship

3 ‘the evils of war’

abomination, atrocity, obscenity, outrage, enormity, crime, monstrosity, barbarity


More example sentences Synonyms

1Profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force:
‘the world is stalked by relentless evil’

‘good and evil in eternal opposition’

More example sentences Synonyms

1.1A manifestation of this, especially in people’s actions:
‘the evil that took place last Thursday’

More example sentences Synonyms

1.2Something that is harmful or undesirable:
‘sexism, racism, and all other unpleasant social evils’

[Kurt Kurt]

Evil is defined by the Golden Rule.

[Christopher A. Lee]

On 3 Apr 2016 13:06:53 GMT, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 23:01:36 -0700, AsteroidSeven wrote:
>
>> Any discussion on the subject of evil must start with the definition of
>> evil.
>>
>> is evil a substance?
>>
>> is evil a depravation?
>>
>> is evil a preset state?
>>
>> is evil an acquired trait?
>>
>> Is evil a removal of good?

Idiot.

>> more could be said. it is meaningless to discuss evil without the
>> definition.
>
>I don't really have a definition of evil. I suspect that it is related
>to the concepts of "anti-social" and "unnecessarily cruel", but theists
>seem to think it has some sort of cosmic significance.

On the scale of good and bad, it's behaviour towards others that is
way off the far end.

But once again, some arrogantly stupid theist imagines he gets to
decide what we should discuss.

[Greywolf]

_____

Fuck you! You're just trying to deflect again; just trying to evade the questions posed to you.

The questions posed to you have been structured to fit within *YOUR* religious world-view and belief-system, not ours!

You're trying desperately to conflate the two world views to cause confusion. So fuck you.

Answer the fucking questions: 1) Who created the evil serpent that lied to, and deceived Eve into "sinning"?

2) Who created the "evil" that Eve became "knowledgeable" of only AFTER being so deceitfully deceived through trickery and partaking of that fruit from the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and EVIL"?

3) Was it the God Jesus, or God the Father?

[Andrew]

"Wexford Eire" wrote in message news:75be1e81-b470-4e22...@googlegroups.com...

Astero...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Any discussion on the subject of evil must start with the definition of evil.

Greywolf claims to be an atheist. He refuses to define "evil".

> is evil a substance?
>
> is evil a depravation?
>
>
> is evil a preset state?
>
> is evil an acquired trait?
>
> Is evil a removal of good?
>
> more could be said. it is meaningless to discuss
> evil without the definition.

-
- Astro, we've been through this.
-
- From Webster:

Webster was a religious man, not an atheist. In
the atheistic paradigm there is no such thing as
"evil itself". Greywolf claims to be an atheist.

In the Christian paradigm, evil is a limited and
temporary phenomena.

[Greywolf]

____________

I've pointedly told you we're confining the origins of moral evil within the framework of Christianity.

And all you want to do is "muddy the waters" because you KNOW who the creator of moral evil had to be--within that framework.

Give it up, you fucking low-life. Your God Jesus is the filthy thing that created moral evil. Three passages in Scripture firmly prove it. And any passage of Scripture that you could possibly find that says anything else, would just be ANOTHER example of a Biblical Contradiction.

Fuck you!

[Andrew]

"Greywolf" wrote in message news:b1be442b-f850-4538...@googlegroups.com...
> Andrew wrote:

>> "Wexford Eire" wrote:
>> Astero...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > Any discussion on the subject of evil must start with the definition of evil.
>>
>> Greywolf claims to be an atheist. He refuses to define "evil".
>>
>> > is evil a substance?
>> >
>> > is evil a depravation?
>> >
>> > is evil a preset state?
>> >
>> > is evil an acquired trait?
>> >
>> > Is evil a removal of good?
>> >
>> > more could be said. it is meaningless to discuss
>> > evil without the definition.
>> -
>> - Astro, we've been through this.
>> -
>> - From Webster:
>>
>> Webster was a religious man, not an atheist. In
>> the atheistic paradigm there is no such thing as
>> "evil itself". Greywolf claims to be an atheist.
>>
>> In the Christian paradigm, evil is a limited and
>> temporary phenomena.
> ____________
>
> I've pointedly told you we're confining the origins
> of moral evil within the framework of Christianity.

In the framework of Christianity evil is very limited
and temporary. In all of eternity future there will be
no evil.

The wise thing to do is to learn about God's plan of
salvation wherein you may have life in His coming
Kingdom where there will be no more evil forever.

[Greywolf]

_________


You and the other bogus, lying-ass, so-called "Christians" STILL refuse to name the Creator of very evil itself--theologically speaking. And we all know why.

So quit posting your religious-based lies from OUR "home" you low-life piece of shit. GO AWAY!!!!!

Hey everybody! Andrew has been shown irrefutable proof that his religious views are irrefutably FALSE.

Yep, it's really, really true.

If you'd like to see confirmation of it, just visit my website:

https://theatheistobserver.wordpress.com/2016/03/10/on-what-day-was-jesus-to-arise-from-the-dead-part-iv-the-conclusion/

and check it out for yourself.

Now I've made it a point to present the Christian apologist's point of view just to be fair-minded. But the Christian apologists get "creamed" in this one.

So take a moment or two to visit my site. And for even *more* exposes in regards to Andrew's false religion, just visit

https://theatheistobserver.wordpress.com/

Andrew is deliberately trying to deceive you all. And the fact that he's doing if from an atheist forum, where he is greatly despised and has been told to leave countless times , shows you all you need to know as to his "moral character," does it not?

[hhya...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:52:40 PM UTC+8, Kurt Kurt wrote:
> Evil is defined by the Golden Rule.

What golden rule?
That Kurt is a Cunt?

[Kurt Kurt]

Your error is that the Bible never says Jesus is God, and explicitly says he is NOT, such as Mark 10. It's all built on that false premise.

[Kurt Kurt]

Well yes of course, forum atheists are totally oblivious to the Golden Rule of the Torah and Jesus.

And therefore, by definition, Evil.

[Wexford Eire]

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:52:25 PM UTC-4, Andrew wrote:
> "Wexford Eire" wrote in message news:75be1e81-b470-4e22...@googlegroups.com...
> Astero...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Any discussion on the subject of evil must start with the definition of evil.
>
> Greywolf claims to be an atheist. He refuses to define "evil".
>
> > is evil a substance?
> >
> > is evil a depravation?
> >
> >
> > is evil a preset state?
> >
> > is evil an acquired trait?
> >
> > Is evil a removal of good?
> >
> > more could be said. it is meaningless to discuss
> > evil without the definition.
> -
> - Astro, we've been through this.
> -
> - From Webster:
>
> Webster was a religious man, not an atheist.

Good, so accept his definition and shut up.

In
> the atheistic paradigm there is no such thing as
> "evil itself". Greywolf claims to be an atheist.

There is no "atheist paradigm," and I don't know of a single atheist who doesn't believe that some things are evil. Atheism isn't a belief or a cult. It's merely the rejection that lacks credible evidence of any claim for a god or gods or spirits or ghosts or banshees or whatever.

>
> In the Christian paradigm, evil is a limited and
> temporary phenomena.

Which "Christian paradigm" is that? There must be thousands of Christian sects. I'm sure there are plenty that believe evil is neither limited nor temporary.

[JTEM]

Wexford Eire wrote:

> Astro, we've been through this.
>
> From Webster:

This is *Hilarious*!

I mean, how the collective is seriously suggesting
that "Evil" can lack a moral judgment...




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[JTEM]

Greywolf wrote:

> I've pointedly told you we're confining the origins
> of moral evil within the framework of Christianity.

That's stupid AND reveals the fact that you're a
Christian... again.

(Of course you're in the habit of revealing your
fundamentalist Christianity)




-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/142178859510

[Wexford Eire]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 3:12:50 AM UTC-4, JTEM wrote:
> Wexford Eire wrote:
>
> > Astro, we've been through this.
> >
> > From Webster:
>
> This is *Hilarious*!
>
> I mean, how the collective is seriously suggesting
> that "Evil" can lack a moral judgment...
>

You should try reading things before you respond to them. You'd look less arrogantly stupid. Let's try this again:

'a bathroom with an evil smell'

[Wexford Eire]

The so-called "Golden Rule" antedates Jesus (and probably the Torah), and is repeated in many traditions that have nothing at all to do with Christianity. One needed have a religion to use it as moral guidance and to follow it.

[Andrew]

"Wexford Eire" wrote in message news:332bafb1-a26a-4b4f...@googlegroups.com...

> The so-called "Golden Rule" antedates Jesus (and probably the
> Torah), and is repeated in many traditions that have nothing at
> all to do with Christianity. One needed have a religion to use it
> as moral guidance and to follow it.

In this what you follow?

[Andrew]

"Wexford Eire" wrote in message news:fce29004-a744-4315...@googlegroups.com...

> 'no man is so evil as to be beyond redemption'

This means that there is hope for our atheist
friends if they will simply repent of the evil
that they haev done, and plead the merits of
the One who is fully able to save them. Yes.

[%]

atheists are just a religion of braggarts

[Greywolf]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 2:14:49 AM UTC-5, JTEM wrote:
> Greywolf wrote:
>
> > I've pointedly told you we're confining the origins
> > of moral evil within the framework of Christianity.
>
> That's stupid AND reveals the fact that you're a
> Christian... again.
>
> (Of course you're in the habit of revealing your
> fundamentalist Christianity)
>

_______

You really don't realize you're looked upon as one really mentally ill dude, do you?

You're words mean nothing. And that's because you're really "nuts". You really are.

[Andrew]

"Greywolf" wrote in message news:3c966841-1dec-49ea...@googlegroups.com...

> You're words mean nothing. And that's because
> you're really "nuts". You really are.

Please tell us now, do you have a moral standard
that defines "moral evil"? Then go ahead and tell
us about it. If not, then your obsession is a mental
disorder.

[JTEM]

Greywolf wrote:

> You really don't realize

So you're saying that I fakely realize?

You're not an atheist. You've ever been an atheist
and you're never going to be an atheist.



-- --

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[JTEM]

Wexford Eire wrote:

> > This is *Hilarious*!
> >
> > I mean, how the collective is seriously suggesting
> > that "Evil" can lack a moral judgment...

> You should try reading things before you respond to them. You'd

Religions, moral compasses decide what is or is
not "Evil," not Websters.

That was the point which flew by you so swiftly.





-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/142282940413

[Wexford Eire]

What "evil" have your "atheist friends" done? Not believing in a god or gods or banshees or whatever is hardly evil.

[Wexford Eire]

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 6:10:10 AM UTC-4, JTEM wrote:
> Wexford Eire wrote:
>
> > > This is *Hilarious*!
> > >
> > > I mean, how the collective is seriously suggesting
> > > that "Evil" can lack a moral judgment...
>
> > You should try reading things before you respond to them. You'd
>
> Religions, moral compasses decide what is or is
> not "Evil," not Websters.

Why not the dictionary makers? What makes you think the religious are especially honest or forthright or righteous? There is certainly a history of lies and mendacity that have characterized churches and churchmen. Churches have been perpetrating scams and swindles, and peddling lies for thousands of years. Better to trust Merriam-Webster than any friar or pope or preacher, soothsayer or shaman, imam or ayatollah. Or maybe you prefer the witch doctors and warlocks?

>
> That was the point which flew by you so swiftly.
>

Point? What point? You disagree with the lexicographers of the English language? That rather pathetically stupid point?
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/142282940413

[Wexford Eire]

Something dropped out of my last sentence. It should read "One never needed to have a religion to use it (the golden rule) as moral guidance and to follow it." I think today most atheists, most agnostics, and most unchurched believers, who are thoughtful people, probably try to act within the broad precepts of treating others as you would choose to be treated yourself.

[%]

when did usenet posters start caring how they look

[Christopher A. Lee]

He hasn't got any atheist friends. In facr he has very few friends at
all. His repulsive personality sees to that.

[%]

i don't see a line up of people wanting to hang out with you either

[Davej]

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:01:39 AM UTC-5, Astero...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Any discussion on the subject of evil must start with the
> definition of evil.

If you lie to people, and the lies make them happier, and they
never find out that you're a liar, is that evil? I would say yes,
because it is dishonest, so I guess Jesus was evil.

[Greywolf]

___________

No it's not. It's just that you've been asked who created the morally evil serpent that lied and deceived Eve into "sinning," and refuse to answer the question.

Instead, you want MY take on "moral evil." And I'm not going to provide it until you've answered the questions regarding the origin of moral evil itself I posed to you BEFORE you tried turning the tables on me.

So answer the fucking questions I've posed regarding moral evil to you. And THEN I'll give you my take on the subject.

[jackpi...@gmail.com]

> What other words do you want defined? House? Dog? Cat? They're all in the dictionary. Like most pretentious rockheads you want to change the definition to meet your needs. Sorry, Sport, language isn't quite that malleable.

Ah, a dictionary thumper.

Consider the word "can". What does that word mean? Well, it means nothing without context. If the emergency room doctor says "can you move your legs", it means something much different than if a theater usher says the same thing.

The dictionary can offer a range of past usage, but language is malleable as hell. Metaphor adds another dimension to language that the dictionary cannot reflect. ("Oh, baby, you ARE an evil wench!")

[Greywolf]

_______

And the Christians STILL refuse to answer WHO created that morally evil serpent that lied to, and deceived poor, gullible Eve into sinning. You know, the creature that created the "evil" that Eve only became "knowledgeable" about only AFTER being lied to and *tricked" into partaking the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and "EVIL." Who created that "EVIL" you dick-head?

[Wexford Eire]

All of which is just nonsense and prattle. We aren't speaking metaphorically or poetically and the context of the discussion is clear. You can't begin a discussion of something then, when stymied, start questioning the meaning of the words you're using. Following your logic, since words are malleable as hell, one could never build an outhouse let alone a jet plane; there'd be no way to communicate because we could twist the words in any way we want. In fact, in this case the dictionary gives us a useful definition that is consistent with the context of the discussion. If in some gutter argot, "evil" is used to refer to the sexual attractiveness of a woman, that's fine. But we're obviously not enjoying that right now are we?

[Christopher A. Lee]

Christianity has its own jargon redefinitions, which only mean
anything to Christians. It's part of the Orwellian use of language to
control Christian minds.

It's how they rationalise away all the difficulties, eg inventing a
new kind of death called "spiritual death" to get out of Adam and Eve
snot dying "on that day".

[Andrew]

"Greywolf" wrote in message news:53e9e486-1f6a-487c...@googlegroups.com...
> Andrew wrote:

>> "Greywolf" wrote:
>>
>> > You're words mean nothing. And that's because
>> > you're really "nuts". You really are.
>>
>> Please tell us now, do you have a moral standard
>> that defines "moral evil"? Then go ahead and tell
>> us about it. If not, then your obsession is a mental
>> disorder.
> ___________
>

> I'm not going to provide it

"Then your obsession is a mental disorder." (see above)

[Greywolf]

Oh, fuck you. You refuse to admit to who, within your Christian universe created moral evil. And the fact that you refuse to admit it was your God Jesus only shows what a lying ass, deceitful piece of shit you are.

Who are YOU trying to fool, shit-for-brains?

[Andrew]

"Greywolf" wrote in message news:8ab171b8-1bec-418e...@googlegroups.com...
> Andrew wrote:

>> "Greywolf" wrote:
>> > Andrew wrote:
>> >> "Greywolf" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > You're words mean nothing. And that's because
>> >> > you're really "nuts". You really are.
>> >>
>> >> Please tell us now, do you have a moral standard
>> >> that defines "moral evil"? Then go ahead and tell
>> >> us about it. If not, then your obsession is a mental
>> >> disorder.
>> > ___________
>> >
>> > I'm not going to provide it
>>
>> "Then your obsession is a mental disorder." (see above)
>
> Oh, fuck you.

I accept this retort from you as your concession
of your inability to fight against the truth, which
you have been trying to do all this time. Thanks'.

[JTEM]

In the "If you have to ask" department...

Wexford Eire wrote:

> Why not the dictionary makers?

You want to know why matters of personal
faith/values are dictated to you by
dictionary printers?




-- --

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[JTEM]

Greywolf wrote:

> And the Christians STILL refuse to answer WHO created that
> morally evil serpent that lied to, and deceived poor,

You, as a fundamentalist Christian, have already assured
us it was God, AND made it clear that you are very, Very,
VERY angry at him for it.





-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/142312755753

[Kurt Kurt]

Ignorant drivel, the Golden Rule first shows up in Leviticus and radiates out from Israel with the arrival of the Jews.

It never would have occurred to anyone if not for the Torah.

[Kurt Kurt]

Nah, they're evil. Thousands of Christian groups living in the worst hell-holes on earth, helping the poorest of the poor.

And the atheist groups doing the same thing?

Zero.

0.0

Pure evil if words have meaning.

[Greywolf]

Did you just shit in your pants, or refuse to answer the question: Who created moral evil, shit-for-brains?

[Greywolf]

Are you admitting your "God' created moral evil?

Did you tell all the atheists that you love to suck atheist cock?

Because that's what I'm hearing/

[jackpi...@gmail.com]

Greywolf

- hide quoted text -

- - - - - - -

If a person assumes that god created everything, and evil is a thing, then god created evil. This is your argument.

[jackpi...@gmail.com]

Wexford Eire

- hide quoted text -

- - - - -

Well, I agree. And there is a context for the present discussion. This context determines the meaning of the word 'evil', not a dictionary. But I'm becoming tedious. I have that tendency :)

[Wexford Eire]

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 8:24:32 AM UTC-4, Kurt Kurt wrote:
> Ignorant drivel, the Golden Rule first shows up in Leviticus and radiates out from Israel with the arrival of the Jews.

It antedates Leviticus. There are Egyptian texts that contain a form of it. Nothing in the bible is particularly innovative or unique.

[JTEM]

Greywolf wrote:

> Are you admitting your "God' created moral evil?

after you're done insisting that God created evil,
are you going to go back to pretending that you're
an atheist?





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[Kurt Kurt]

Deliberate lie, no Golden Rule in Egyptian texts whatsoever. The Eloquent Peasant has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Golden Rule. If you think it does, quote it. It's a peasant that gets rewarded for telling the truth to the King. All about doing what kings say, and absolutely noting whatsoever to do with the Golden Rule.

So much for that deliberate lie.

[jackpi...@gmail.com]

JTEM

Greywolf wrote: 
  
> Are you admitting your "God' created moral evil? 

after you're done insisting that God created evil, 
are you going to go back to pretending that you're 
an atheist? 

. . . . . . .

Of course, evil exists within craniums. Or, to be philosophical about it, you could say that evil is historically and socially contructed and nonetheless real (to the people experiencing it). Evil must, also, have an emotional dimension. No?

[JTEM]

jackpi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Of course, evil exists within craniums. Or, to be philosophical about it, you could say that evil is historically and socially contructed and nonetheless real (to the people experiencing it). Evil must, also, have an emotional dimension. No?

Seeing evil is like being offended. The more real is
appears to be to the view, the more fucked up that
viewer seems to the rest of us.




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[jackpi...@gmail.com]

JTEM

jackpi...@gmail.com wrote: 
  
>   Of course, evil exists within craniums.  Or, to be philosophical about it, you could say that evil is historically and socially contructed and nonetheless real (to the people experiencing it).  Evil must, also, have an emotional dimension.  No? 

Seeing evil is like being offended. The more real is 
appears to be to the view, the more fucked up that 
viewer seems to the rest of us. 

. . . . . . .

To what extent are sense of "evil" and a sense of "horror" the same, different?

To me, a person who perceives an occurence as "evil" must sense 1. suffering, 2. an agent (possibly human, possibly imaginary), and 3. if not sadistic pleasure, then at least wanton disregard for the sufferer.

[Tim]

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 5:02:52 PM UTC-4, JTEM wrote:
> jackpi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Of course, evil exists within craniums. Or, to be philosophical about it, you could say that evil is historically and socially contructed and nonetheless real (to the people experiencing it). Evil must, also, have an emotional dimension. No?
>
> Seeing evil is like being offended. The more real is
> appears to be to the view, the more fucked up that
> viewer seems to the rest of us.

And so you invent your collective as a psychological defence against the realization that you are fucked up, yawn. Go take your meds, head case.

[Wexford Eire]

I've always thought Orwell was a consummate genius. His invention of newspeak was an incredible insight into totalitarian methods. He claimed he learned the techniques from the Spanish Communists he fought for during the Spanish Civil War.

[JTEM]

Wexford Eire wrote:

> I've always thought Orwell was a consummate genius. His
> invention of newspeak

He didn't invent it. It's not like he was
dealing with a free press. He merely
extrapolated what he was seeing.



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[Christopher A. Lee]

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:01:51 -0700 (PDT), Wexford Eire

I realised what Christianity was doing long before I read 1984 - but
that described it perfectly.

It was when Christians used words like "truth", teaching". etc to
mean things they clearly didn't - and these redefinitions go back
almost a couple of thousand years.

Their rewriting of history goes back a long way, too.

[Wexford Eire]

Orwell invented the fictional language "Newspeak." If you think someone else did, tell us who that might have been, please do.

[Wexford Eire]

Actually read "the Eloquent Peasant" and get back to us. As I said there's nothing new in the Bible. The expression in Leviticus of the Golden Rule is typical of Hebrew insularity as well.

Leviticus 19:18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

It refers to "thy people," only. As for the rest of the world, they didn't give a flying damn. It was OK to murder, pillage and rape in Jericho or against any enemy. Loving your neighbor literally meant the one in the next tent, one of your clan. So it is today among most people.

[jackpi...@gmail.com]

Wexford Eire

- hide quoted text -

. . . . . ... ..

Homage to Catalonia is one of my favorite books. The insight is palpable.

[jackpi...@gmail.com]

Loving your neighbor literally meant the one in the next tent, one of your clan. So it is today among most people.

. . . . . ..

The history of human conflict in 25 words or less.

[Malcolm McMahon]

On Sunday, 3 April 2016 07:01:39 UTC+1, Astero...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Any discussion on the subject of evil must start with the definition of evil.
>
> is evil a substance?
>

My definition is simple; doing harm for harm's sake. Taking some option _because_ you know its wrong.

[Greywolf]

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:33:10 PM UTC-5, JTEM wrote:
> Greywolf wrote:
>
> > Are you admitting your "God' created moral evil?
>
> after you're done insisting that God created evil,
> are you going to go back to pretending that you're
> an atheist?
>

___________

Did you put mayo on that shit sandwich you're enjoying? Or did you zest it up with some Sriracha?

No wonder you're so full of shit. And have a breath to match.

Come to think of it, you're shit-for-brains on top of THAT too!

[Alex W.]

That is too simplistic and narrow, IMO.

Children will do harm for harm's sake, knowing it to be wrong. Kids may
hurt animals or other children. They may tell malicious lies, knowing
they will cause hurt and harm to others. But we do not call that evil.

Also, psychopaths and sociopaths will often commit acts we commonly
label as "evil" but they are either not cognizant of the fact they are
morally wrong or they have never internalised the morality.

Then consider the case of people doing evil things fully convinced they
are doing good. Witch-hunters and inquisitors tortured and murdered
thousands, persecuted entire communities ... all in the blissful belief
that theirs was a good deed.

[Wexford Eire]

I've never read it. Thanks for mentioning it.

[Andrew]

"Greywolf" wrote in message news:8e86d2ea-35a3-4aca...@googlegroups.com...

______________________________________________

"Now in the synagogue there was a man who had a spirit
of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice,"
~ Luke 4:33

I often wondered what that was. But after seeing some of
these posts by the "Greywolf", I see that unclean demons
still possess people today. For evidence thereof, just see
some of his recent posts.

They are not happy. They are tormented.

Tormented by a host of unclean spirits.

[Greywolf]

________

Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I'm not saying Evil is a "thing" any more than "Good" is.

I'm asking a very simple question: Who created the morally evil, evil serpent that lied to, and deceived Eve into "sinning"? And related questions.

Why are you Christians having such a hard time answering so simple a question. We atheists sure know who did, theologically speaking. And you nut-jobs are clueless? C'mon. Fess up.

[%]

fine , who did , it wasn't god cause there is none

[Greywolf]

_________

Did you dream up that pile of shit while munching on some, or while typing a boatload of it?

Hey, did you hear? Mark 8:31 and Matthew 12:40 contradict Matthew 16:21 and Luke 18:33?

Shoots the shit out of your Luke 1:37, doesn't it?

[Andrew]

"Greywolf" wrote in message news:f2b1e4fa-1b01-4b40...@googlegroups.com...

> I'm asking a very simple question: Who created the
> morally evil, evil serpent that lied to, and deceived
> Eve into "sinning"?
>

> We atheists sure know who did,

Atheists know who created him, he says.


Lol!

[John Locke]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:11:18 -0700, "Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net>
wrote:

...so who created your psychopathic, murderous, sadistic, incoherent,
tortuous, deranged, perverted god ???? You know, the "loving god"you
adore and grovel to. ...heh, heh, ...if the thing were real, you'd be
in for one helluva time in the "afterlife" !!!

[bil...@m.nu]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:11:18 -0700, "Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net>
wrote:

atheists do know and I will tell you... It was obviously some story
teller long ago

[Andrew]

"John Locke" wrote in message news:9ufggbdca85ehe6rf...@4ax.com...
> "Andrew" wrote:

>>"Greywolf" wrote:
>>
>>> I'm asking a very simple question: Who created the
>>> morally evil, evil serpent that lied to, and deceived
>>> Eve into "sinning"?
>>>
>>> We atheists sure know who did,
>>
>>Atheists know who created him, he says.
>>
> ...so who created your psychopathic, murderous, sadistic,
> incoherent, tortuous, deranged, perverted god ????

I gather that you don't like Him.

[bil...@m.nu]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:01:34 -0700, "Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net>
wrote:

To what "him" are you reffering?

[Wexford Eire]

Even Satan can quote scripture. Get thee behind me, Andrew!

[Andrew]

"Wexford Eire" wrote in message news:a28d60f4-5386-4cd0...@googlegroups.com...
> Andrew wrote:

>> "Greywolf" wrote:
>> > JTEM wrote:
>> >> Greywolf wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Are you admitting your "God' created moral evil?
>> >>
>> >> after you're done insisting that God created evil,
>> >> are you going to go back to pretending that you're
>> >> an atheist?
>> > ___________
>> >
>> > Did you put mayo on that shit sandwich you're enjoying?
>> > Or did you zest it up with some Sriracha?
>> >
>> > No wonder you're so full of shit. And have a breath to match.
>> >
>> > Come to think of it, you're shit-for-brains on top of THAT too!
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> "Now in the synagogue there was a man who had a spirit
>> of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice,"
>> ~ Luke 4:33
>>
>> I often wondered what that was. But after seeing some of
>> these posts by the "Greywolf", I see that unclean demons
>> still possess people today. For evidence thereof, just see
>> some of his recent posts.
>>
>> They are not happy. They are tormented.
>>
>> Tormented by a host of unclean spirits.
>
> Even Satan can quote scripture.

So you believe in him also.

> Get thee behind me, Andrew!

You don't have to be afraid of me.

[duke]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:41:02 -0700 (PDT), Greywolf <greywolft...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 7:17:10 AM UTC-7, jackpi...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Greywolf
>>
>> - hide quoted text -
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:55:52 PM UTC-5, jackpi...@gmail.com wrote: 
>> > > What other words do you want defined? House? Dog? Cat? They're all in the dictionary. Like most pretentious rockheads you want to change the definition to meet your needs. Sorry, Sport, language isn't quite that malleable. 
>> > 
>> > Ah, a dictionary thumper. 
>> > 
>> > Consider the word "can".  What does that word mean?  Well, it means nothing without context.  If the emergency room doctor says "can you move your legs", it means something much different than if a theater usher says the same thing. 
>> > 
>> > The dictionary can offer a range of past usage, but language is malleable as hell.  Metaphor adds another dimension to language that the dictionary cannot reflect.  ("Oh, baby, you ARE an evil wench!") 
>>
>> _______ 
>>
>> And the Christians STILL refuse to answer WHO created that morally evil serpent that lied to, and deceived poor, gullible Eve into sinning. You know, the creature that created the "evil" that Eve only became "knowledgeable" about only AFTER being lied to and *tricked" into partaking the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and "EVIL." Who created that "EVIL" you dick-head? 
>> - - - - - - -
>>
>> If a person assumes that god created everything, and evil is a thing, then god created evil. This is your argument.
>
>________
>
>Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I'm not saying Evil is a "thing" any more than "Good" is.

That's exactly what you were trying to do.

>I'm asking a very simple question: Who created the morally evil, evil serpent that lied to, and deceived Eve into "sinning"? And related questions.

Man is naturally the moral evil. God picked man as his creation specifically to
see if he can overcome his evil nature in temptation and accept the kingdom of
heaven. You're a good example of failure.

>Why are you Christians having such a hard time answering so simple a question. We atheists sure know who did, theologically speaking. And you nut-jobs are clueless? C'mon. Fess up.

You don't even understand the question you asked

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[raven1]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:11:18 -0700, "Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net>
wrote:

According to your myth, it was your God. Why would it surprise or
amuse you that atheists know the details of your particular mythology?

[Christopher A. Lee]

Especially when so many atheists in the US are ex-Christians.

[John Locke]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:01:34 -0700, "Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net>
wrote:

...there is no "Him" to dislike....but there sure as hell is a lot
of religious nuttery that I find contemptible. You still haven't
answered the question. Since you think your monster god is real,
who or what created the thing ?

[Andrew]

"John Locke" wrote in message news:4c6igbdsiiueg6u7r...@4ax.com...

> Since you think your monster god is
> real, who or what created the thing ?

You don't like Him. Why?

[Andrew]

"Greywolf" wrote in message news:16fab32d-7f48-4ae8...@googlegroups.com...

> Hey, did you hear? Mark 8:31 and Matthew 12:40
> contradict Matthew 16:21 and Luke 18:33?

No, this was explained to you in full detail repeatedly.

"There are some things that are difficult to understand,
which those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted
to mean something quite different just as they do with
other parts of Scripture. This will result in their final
destruction. ~ 2 Peter 3:16

[jackpi...@gmail.com]

The Spanish Civil War was a prelude to the Second World War. Hitler was funding Franco. Orwell understood the threat of totalitarianism in Europe. He fought against it and came within inches of dying for it.
But I don't want to spoil the book for you if you ever read it.

[raven1]

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:45:13 -0700, "Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net>
wrote:

Just wondering here: have you ever actually read the Bible?

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 22:44:09 -0400, raven1
<quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:45:13 -0700, "Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net>
>wrote:
>
>>"John Locke" wrote in message news:4c6igbdsiiueg6u7r...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> Since you think your monster god is
>>> real, who or what created the thing ?
>>
>>You don't like Him. Why?

What a fucking moron.

Anne Drool doesn't like Sauron, Why?

>Just wondering here: have you ever actually read the Bible?

Is he really so stupid he doesn't understand that outside his
religion, it's merely a character from the myths and legends of
somebody else's religion?

He's been brainwashed to believe that everything this fictional
character does is good - even when it clearly isn't, to any normal
person.

[JTEM]

Wexford Eire wrote:

> Orwell invented the fictional language

Orwell observed his culture and then extrapolated it.



-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/149427263885

[Kurt]

Deliberate lie, no Golden Rule from Egypt preceding it. The Eloquent Peasant has nothing to do with the Golden Rule, it's a poor man telling the king the truth and a rich man lying. The poor man won the case and the rich guy that lied to the much richer king was punished. That's it. Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Golden Rule. Only downbreeds that claim all "reciprocity" is the Golden Rule, claim that, and that's absurd, putting out your neighbor's eye is reciprocity and it's not the Golden Rule.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 4:11:01 PM UTC-4, Wexford Eire wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 8:24:32 AM UTC-4, Kurt Kurt wrote:
> > Ignorant drivel, the Golden Rule first shows up in Leviticus and radiates out from Israel with the arrival of the Jews.
>
> It antedates Leviticus. There are Egyptian texts that contain a form of it. Nothing in the bible is particularly innovative or unique.
>
> >
> > It never would have occurred to anyone if not for the Torah.
> >
> > On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:29:08 PM UTC-4, Wexford Eire wrote:
> > > The so-called "Golden Rule" antedates Jesus (and probably the Torah), and is repeated in many traditions that have nothing at all to do with Christianity. One needed have a religion to use it as moral guidance and to follow it.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 10:49:59 PM UTC-4, Kurt Kurt wrote:
> > > > Well yes of course, forum atheists are totally oblivious to the Golden Rule of the Torah and Jesus.
> > > >
> > > > And therefore, by definition, Evil.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:50:44 PM UTC-4, hhya...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:52:40 PM UTC+8, Kurt Kurt wrote:
> > > > > > Evil is defined by the Golden Rule.
> > > > >
> > > > > What golden rule?
> > > > > That Kurt is a Cunt?

[Kurt]

I read it downbreed, a moron atheist like you put it in Wiki despite the fact that it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Golden Rule whatsoever.

If you think it does, downbreed, point out where. Can't do it downbreed? Now, how did I know that?

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 4:29:16 PM UTC-4, Wexford Eire wrote:
> Actually read "the Eloquent Peasant" and get back to us. As I said there's nothing new in the Bible. The expression in Leviticus of the Golden Rule is typical of Hebrew insularity as well.
>
> Leviticus 19:18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
>
> 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
>
> It refers to "thy people," only. As for the rest of the world, they didn't give a flying damn. It was OK to murder, pillage and rape in Jericho or against any enemy. Loving your neighbor literally meant the one in the next tent, one of your clan. So it is today among most people.
>
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 4:37:06 PM UTC-4, Kurt Kurt wrote:
> > Deliberate lie, no Golden Rule in Egyptian texts whatsoever. The Eloquent Peasant has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Golden Rule. If you think it does, quote it. It's a peasant that gets rewarded for telling the truth to the King. All about doing what kings say, and absolutely noting whatsoever to do with the Golden Rule.
> >
> > So much for that deliberate lie.

[Kurt]

I'll help with that. All evil comes from within the hearts of men.