Good news for bad times: here is the experiment which supernaturally increases weight of bodies thus proving the existence of immortal souls (JP)

0 views
Skip to first unread message

janp...@gmail.com

unread,
May 2, 2009, 10:29:26 PM5/2/09
to
Even in bad times one can hear a good news. It turns out that
according the the English saying "seeing is believing" now we can see
with our own eyes a relatively simple experiment which demonstrates
that each one amongst us actually does have an immortal soul. So when
we get discouraged by unkept promises of politicians, by bonuses for
bank CEOs paid them for ruining economy of the world, unemployment,
lack of hope, increasingly darker prospects, destruction of the
nature, climatic changes, contradictive claims of scientists, or
excalating pendemics of swine flu, we always can complete this
experiment and see with our own eyes, that the soul does exist and
thus that our present physical life is NOT just a brief flash of
awareness of existence in the ocean of nothingness.

This rather simple experiment on the supernatural increase of the
weight of human body is described in a plain article from the New
Zealand newspaper indicated below. Because this increase of the weight
of body requires a previous persuading the soul what exactly this soul
supposed to do, this experiment in fact proves also the existence of
the soul. Originally this experiment arrived from Japan to New
Zealand. In Japan it was developed in one amongst their numerous
schools of "martial art" (samurais?) as their exercise which gives a
supernatural weight to the bodies. It is enough simple that (as the
article indicates) in New Zealand it was completed in pubs for fun and
for entertainment - sometimes even when participants of it were after
one or more beers. So it should be possible to complete it without
much trouble by almost every reader of this post (or the totaliztic
web page "soul_proof.htm" from which this post originates). This
experiment is described in the article [1#E7.1] entitled "A brush with
a higher power" from page B4 of New Zealand newspaper "The Dominion
Post", issue dated on Wednesday, April 15, 2009. The principle of this
experiment boils down to persuading the soul of a person to increase
the weight of this person up to a supernatural value. In turn casual
witnesses are invited to lift this person twice - once before the soul
of this person increases his or her weight to the supernatural value,
and then again just after the weight of this person is supernaturally
increased by the soul. As it turns out, before this supernatural
increase of weight, the casual witnesses are able to lift a given
person without any difficulty. But after the supernatural increase in
the weight of this person, the strength of casual witnesses is NOT
enough to lift the same person which increased the weight. Thus, such
an impossibility to lift a person for the second time, after the soul
of this person supernaturally increased the weight of this person, is
the illustrative proof that the soul in fact does exist. So if the
reader completes such an experiment, then the outcomes of it should
become his or her personal proof that the soul does exist - of course
if the reader's view of the world allows to accept any proof at all
(as this is explained in item #B1 of the web page "soul_proof.htm").

In order to complete this experiment, at least three participants are
necessary. But even more people can take part in it as well. One
amongst these people, let us call him or her the "lifted" one, becomes
this person who is to persuade his or her soul to increase the weight
of body. The remaining participants, which can be two or more - let us
call them the "lifters", will be these people who are to try to lift
the "lifted" person with supernaturally increased weight. The
experiment requires that the "lifted" person is standing vertically on
the ground, with the body straighten, while both his or her feet
(which can remain in shoes) are placed flat on the ground. Therefore
all "lifters" must delicately lift the "lifted" person without causing
the change to this pose. The best technique of lifting in this pose is
if the "lifted" person stretches and tenses both hands downwards along
sides of his or her body, while two "lifters" grab these hands (i.e.
each "lifter" grabs one hand) by the fist and by arm, and then
carefully and delicately lifts him or her up without changing the
pose. If both "lifters" are reasonably strong, while the "lifted"
person is not-too-heavy, then at the normal body weight such a
delicate lifting should NOT pose any problem.

The experiment has four phases. In the first phase the "lifted" person
is lifted up when he or she still have the normal body weight. Thus,
the "lifters" should NOT have any problem with lifting such a person.
This first lifting allows all the "lifters" to learn and to remember
how much a given person really weights and how easily it comes to lift
this person in normal circumstances. In turn the memory of this first
lifting allows them later to understand that the weight of the
"lifted" person really increased in the supernatural manner. The
second phase is a break in the lifting, which allows the "lifted"
person to "persuade" his or her soul to supernaturally increase the
weight of body. How to carry out this "persuading" it is to be
explained in next paragraph. After the soul of the "lifted" person is
persuaded to increase the body weight to a supernatural value, the
third (decisive) phase of the experiment is to be carried out. This
third phase is the second lifting. The same couples of "lifters" as
previously, now delicately try to lift again the same person. But they
are to discover now that the lifting becomes impossible. No matter how
much strength and effort they put into their lifting, the "lifted"
person is to stand on the ground unmoved. His (or "her" - if the
"lifted" person is a woman) weight becomes supernaturally huge. This
impossibility to lift again the same person that just a while ago was
lifted without any difficulty, represents the experimental proof for
the existence of souls. After all "lifters" experience that the
"lifted" person now cannot be lifted up (after all, in the vicinity
can be more than two people willing to check outcomes of this
experiment), the last (fourth) phase of the experiment is to be
completed. In this last phase the "lifted" person persuades his or her
soul to restore the normal weight of his or her body.

Persuading the intelligent soul to increase the body weight of the
"lifted" person to a supernatural value is the most critical phase of
this experiment. After all, the intelligent soul typically has "its
own opinion" and usually refuses to listen to persuasions. Therefore,
in order to still persuade it, the same technique should be used which
is utilised for so-called "meditations". For this reason the best
candidate for a "lifted" person is someone who already has some
experience in "meditating". If there is no such a person around, then
the role of the "lifted" person can perform any person who does NOT
have a so called "contradictive character", i.e. which voluntarily and
without reservations is to do whatever is being recommended. If the
"lifted" person has the experience in so-called "meditations", then he
or she can do own persuading of his or her soul, by simply completing
in own mind all these stages which I am going to describe below. In
turn, if the "lifted" person is someone without such an experience,
then he or she needs a "guide" who is going to prompt him or her what
is to be done. (I.e. who in own words is going to repeat
recommendations for subsequent stages described below.) In turn, the
best such a "guide" is someone who enjoys the authority and respect on
the part of "lifted" person (e.g. for girls usually it is their
"boyfriend"). Of course, such a role of the "guide" can also perform
one amongst "lifters". The stages of "persuasion" are as follows. The
first stage is "relaxing and concentration". In this stage the "guide"
recommends to the "lifted" person (or the "lifted" person repeats in
his or her own mind) that his or her soul is to relax and to
concentrate solely on what is to be done. The "guide" should repeat
this recommendation with a friendly and low voice, for example saying
something along the lines: "Now close your eyes and ask your thoughts
to stop noticing anything else apart what is to be done". The second
stage is "fixing to the ground and becoming a part of the mountain at
your feet". In this stage the recommendation issued in own words with
pleasant and low voice should say something along the lines: "Now
recall that there is a native rock of our mother Earth under your
feet. Fix your feet to this rock. You are a part of the rock at your
feet. You cannot be separated from this rock. Your weight starts to be
equal to the weight of this huge rock. No one is able to lift you
now." The third stage is to prepare the body for lifting. It can be
explained with words along the lines: "Now other people are to try to
lift you delicately. So stretch your hands and prepare yourself for
this lifting. But maintain being merged with rocks under you, so that
they are unable to lift you. When they are trying to lift you keep
your feet fixed to the rock under you and keep the huge weight of your
body linked to the weight of that rock." After saying these words the
"guide" gives a sign to start attempts to lift the "lifted" person. If
the "lifted" person concentrated to the required level and put into
the "persuasion" of the soul the required amount of will and
conviction, his or her lifting up is to turn impossible. But we need
to remember, that such attempts to lift the person should be delicate
(i.e. without shaking or causing the pain in the "lifted" person).
Also these attempts should be carried out fast and orderly - because
the concentration of the "lifted" person is not going to last forever.
After all, in this experiment the point is to empirically verify that
the soul of the "lifted" person really did increase the weight of the
body of that person to a supernatural value. In turn to obtain such a
verification no much time is needed, and there is no need to painfully
pull or shake the "lifted" person - which actions could destroy his or
her concentration.

After all "lifters" orderly, fast, delicately, and quietly try their
ineffective attempts to lift up the "lifted" person, either one of
them, or the "guide", should give a verbal sign to finish the
experiment. After this sign, the soul of the "lifted" person is to
complete the return to a normal weight. For this purpose the "lifted"
person should think, or hear from the "guide", something along the
lines: "The lifting is finished. Now remove the link between your feet
and the rock below, and return to a normal weight. Also stop further
concentration, open your eyes, and join the group, so that we all now
can discuss the experiment."

The above experiment is subjective. After all, it is completed by
people who have human imperfections and weaknesses. Thus, there are
tens of reasons why it may not work. For example, it is enough that
the "lifted" person have just a "bad day", or that his or her soul has
a "contradictive nature". The "guide" can speak too loud, or have an
irritating voice. Someone amongst "lifters" may grab too painfully, or
shake too strong to disperse the concentration. Someone around may
sneeze or begin to comment in a laud voice. Etc., etc. However, the
experiment was tested and in the right conditions for sure it works. I
do not know how many times it was completed by the Japanese creators,
but only the article [1#E7.1] describes two completions of it in New
Zealand. Both were successful - in spite that each time a different
"lifted" person was used (firstly man, and then woman). Therefore, if
with the reader of this web page this experiment does NOT work for the
first time, then one should NOT get discouraged and repeat it again
with another pair of the "lifted" person and the "guide" - whom may
cooperate much better with each other than the first pair. When
finally it starts to work with one such a pair, then it can be
repeated with this pair many times, to convince increasingly different
"lifters". Simultaneously it is worth to remember that if one has an
open-minded view of the world, then it suffices to experience the
success of this experiment once only, in order to be convinced
experimentally and empirically for the rest of the life, that the
human souls for sure do exist.

At this point I should add, that I have heard also about an experiment
that is opposite to the above, although equally simple. It boiled down
to such a decrease of the body weight of a person sitting on a chair,
that this person, together with the chair on which it sat, two or four
other people could lift up with the touch of just single stretched
fingers. Unfortunately, I do not know the method of decreasing the
weight of the body, which needs to be persuaded to soul of such a
person. Therefore, if any reader knows this experiment, and knows
exactly how to persuade to the soul of that person to decrease the
weight of the body, I would be grateful for letting me know.

***

In the above post I try to explain a relatively simple experiment
which proves to all of us that everyone really does have an immortal
soul and continually carries this soul inside. In turn the reassurence
that after all we have an immortal soul is an optimistic message in
present climate of economic depression and spread of the "swine flu"
pendemic. This experiemnt is described in item #E7.1 from the
totaliztic web page named "soul_proof.htm", update of 21 April 2009,
or later. The above post was adopted from this item #E7.1 of that web
page. The latest update of the web page "soul_proof.htm" was already
uploaded on several frequently viewed totaliztic web sites. Because of
someone’s stubborn sabotage of the totaliztic web pages, the web page
"soul_proof.htm" is also planned to be uploaded in future to several
further totaliztic web sites. Interested readers already can seek the
web page "soul_proof.htm" at following addresses:
http://members.fortunecity.com/timevehicle/soul_proof.htm
http://totalizm.20fr.com/soul_proof.htm
http://totalism.50megs.com/soul_proof.htm
http://chi.maroc.to/soul_proof.htm
http://propulsion.250free.com/soul_proof.htm
http://pigs.20megsfree.com/soul_proof.htm
http://mozajski.freewebspace.com/soul_proof.htm
http://prism.20fr.com/soul_proof.htm
It is also worth to notice that practically all totaliztic web pages
are available at each web site of totalizm. Therefore, independently
from the web page "soul_proof.htm", each address (web site) indicated
above also offers all other web pages of totalizm - unless some of
these web pages just were sabotaged, or are so new that I had no time
yet to upload these at a given address (server). (But in a case when
for some reasons a page is unavailable under a given address, still at
this address a MENU should be available which has links to all other
totaliztic addresses (servers), on which a given web page should
already be accessible.) Thus, if someone wishes to view descriptions
from any other totaliztic web page, e.g. from a web page listed in
this post, or listed in other totaliztic posts, then in the above
addresses the name "soul_proof.htm" is just enough to exchange for a
name of the web page that he or she wishes to view, e.g. for the name
of web page "prophecies.htm", "bitwa_o_milicz_uk.htm", "healing.htm",
"oscillatory_chamber.htm", "eco_cars.htm", "boiler.htm",
"fe_cell.htm", "free_energy.htm", "telekinetics.htm",
"dipolar_gravity.htm", "nirvana.htm", "totalizm.htm", "evil.htm",
"god.htm", "god_proof.htm", "bible.htm", "evolution.htm",
"wszewilki_jutra_uk.htm", "malbork_uk.htm", "memorial.htm",
"newzealand.htm", "partia_totalizmu_uk.htm", "fruit.htm",
"text_1_5.htm", "explain.htm", "day26.htm", "ufo_proof.htm",
"katrina.htm", etc., etc.

If the above text needed to be cut down here to fit into the memory
that is available, or it is difficult to read, or links from it refuse
to work, then it is worth to know that this post is repeated on
several blogs of totalizm - where it carries the number #168E. These
blogs of totalizm can be accessed through following internet
addresses:
http://totalizm.wordpress.com
http://www.newfreehost.com/weblog/?u=god
http://totalizm.blox.pl/html
http://www.getablog.net/totalizm
While viewing any of these blogs, it is worth to know that they
contain an array of other posts with related subject area, for example
the post number 167E with photographs and other scientific evidence
which document the existence of soul, the post number 137E with the
formal scientific proof for the existence of soul, the post number
135E with the formal scientific proof for the existence of God, the
post number 109E about the self-evolution of God, or the post number
157E which explains why God purposely maintains us in the lack of
certainty about His existence.

Examples of photographs and scientific evidence which document the
existence of souls were also discussed at the address:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.philosophy/browse_thread/thread/3b7fd70fae7f34f9#
.

With the totaliztic salute,
Jan Pajak

alien8er

unread,
May 3, 2009, 5:05:41 AM5/3/09
to

How about we admit as a participant a scale? You know, a MEASURING
INSTRUMENT?


Mark L. Fergerson

Cwatters

unread,
May 3, 2009, 1:46:17 PM5/3/09
to

<janp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7d1328d3-d6be-40fe...@j18g2000prm.googlegroups.com...

>The principle of this experiment boils down to persuading
> the soul of a person to increase the weight of this person
> up to a supernatural value.

You could make far more money if you could persuade the soul to make people
lighter.


Uncle Al

unread,
May 3, 2009, 7:46:51 PM5/3/09
to
janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Even in bad times one can hear a good news. It turns out that
> according the the English saying "seeing is believing" now we can see
> with our own eyes a relatively simple experiment which demonstrates
> that each one amongst us actually does have an immortal soul.
[snip 270 lines of crap]

The Wicked Witch of the West died for Uncle Al's sins.

Uncle Al signed on with Satan at the crossroads - all the pressure is
off. Powers and abilities beyond those of moral men were a fair
trade.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

george

unread,
May 3, 2009, 8:34:53 PM5/3/09
to
On May 3, 2:29 pm, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> However, the
> experiment was tested and in the right conditions for sure it works. I
> do not know how many times it was completed by the Japanese creators,
> but only the article [1#E7.1] describes two completions of it in New
> Zealand. Both were successful - in spite that each time a different
> "lifted" person was used (firstly man, and then woman).

Bullshit !
Another fundie lie

janp...@gmail.com

unread,
May 4, 2009, 9:49:31 PM5/4/09
to
On May 4, 5:46 am, "Cwatters"
<colin.wattersNOS...@TurnersOakNOSPAM.plus.com> wrote:
...

> You could make far more money if you could persuade the soul to make people
> lighter.

YES, there is another experiment which illustrates how souls can make
bodies weightless. You can find description of this "experiment on
weightlessness" in items #E7.2 from web pages:
http://members.fortunecity.com/timevehicle/soul_proof.htm
http://prism.20fr.com/soul_proof.htm
http://totalizm.20fr.com/soul_proof.htm
http://pigs.20megsfree.com/soul_proof.htm

Of course, I am aware that you are NOT after this kind of getting
lighter, as it does NOT decrease the body fat. However, if our
civilisation is NOT so sceptical, sarcastic, and so denying regarding
powers which our souls have over our bodies, then humans could easily
learn how to persuade souls to decrease their body fat. In such a case
souls would make people as slim and hansom as they would wish to be.
Such a "soul based" method of slimming down can be developed is
someone puts a faith and effort into it. After all, in item #E7 of the
abovementioned web pages is describes a method when nasty wounds were
healed instantly by the soul. So it is equally possible to persuade
the soul to instantly get rid of the body fat.

MarkA

unread,
May 5, 2009, 8:02:56 AM5/5/09
to
On Sat, 02 May 2009 19:29:26 -0700, janpajak wrote:

> Even in bad times one can hear a good news. It turns out that
> according the the English saying "seeing is believing" now we can see
> with our own eyes a relatively simple experiment which demonstrates
> that each one amongst us actually does have an immortal soul. So when

I'm embarrassed to say that I actually read the long description of the
"experimental protocol", which boils down to this: one person stands with
arms straight down, locked at his side, while 2 people lift him. Person
then "convinces his soul" to stick his feet to the ground, and the 2
people try to lift him again. According to the OP, they won't be able to,
thus proving the existence of the soul.

Apparently, the OP has never heard of the "power bracelets" scam: Put a
brick in a sturdy brown paper bag, and invite the mark to try to lift it.
It will feel *very* heavy. Then, you put on the <whatever you want to
sell>, and try again. The bag feels much lighter, because of the magical
effect of <whatever you want to sell>, thereby justifying the outrageous
price you are planning to charge. The trick works because you normally
expect a brown paper bag to contain something that weighs about as much as
a ham sandwich. After lifting it once, your brain registers that it is
heavier than usual, so you subconsciously put more power into the second
lift. Try taking the "power bracelets" off, and lifting it again: it
won't go back to being real heavy.

--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock

IlBe...@gmail.com

unread,
May 5, 2009, 9:52:51 AM5/5/09
to
>   Mark L. Fergerson- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

How about we just take a look at Val Thomas' story . Do a google
under : Val Thomas . (Caution ! This true story brings about
some uncomfortableness for those who dont want God to be real).

Ken

unread,
May 5, 2009, 10:28:30 AM5/5/09
to
On May 2, 7:29 pm, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> Even in bad times one can hear a good news. It turns out that
> according the the English saying "seeing is believing" now we can see
> with our own eyes a relatively simple experiment which demonstrates
> that each one amongst us actually does have an immortal soul.

In a word....Bullcrap

Oh great....Another fundy nutcase in the vein of George Hammond, the
SPOG wacko

Cory Albrecht

unread,
May 5, 2009, 11:28:33 AM5/5/09
to

Actually, hasn't Jan been around for longer than George?

Davej

unread,
May 5, 2009, 12:22:46 PM5/5/09
to
On May 2, 9:29 pm, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> [...]

> Persuading the intelligent soul to increase the body weight of the
> "lifted" person to a supernatural value is the most... [...]


New diet craze! Sell your soul and lose 40 pounds instantly!

ken

unread,
May 5, 2009, 12:39:28 PM5/5/09
to

As his soul wasn't worth anything, I'lbebaucked sold his brain, but
didn't lose an ounce

alien8er

unread,
May 5, 2009, 3:08:30 PM5/5/09
to

Why do you want to change the subject, because it's fairly obvious
that a scale won't be fooled like people are?

"Val Thomas": BFD. People fall into conditions resembling death for
a while for many reasons. You're a religious person, and Easter's
coming up; do you know why the Jews' dietary laws forbid them to eat
scale-less fish? Do you know why Jews have to sit with the dead for
three days and nights before they can be buried? Look up "fugu".

I'm not interested in "stories", I'm interested in MEASURING claimed
physical changes via "spiritual" forces, but I want to use instruments
to do the measuring because people are easily fooled.


Mark L. Fergerson

janp...@gmail.com

unread,
May 5, 2009, 10:08:36 PM5/5/09
to

Well, the brick in a brown paper you still can lift after all. But a
person whose soul joins his body with the native rock undeground you
will NOT be able to lift, whatever effort you would put into this. So
your explanation shows a bit simplistic view of the matter.
Furthermore, your views do NOT explain how you can lift a whole heavy
person with four stretched fingers (as described in item #E7.2 of my
web page "soul_proof.htm") - unless you admit that the soul of this
person really makes his body weightless. So sorry but you must seek
another explanation.

With the totaliztic salute,
Jan Pajak

P.S. The experiemnts that I described are relatively easy to complete.
So perhaps at the nearest meeting with your friends you should
complete one of them just to see that they DO NOT HAVE A PHYSICAL
EXPLANATION and that the modern science of physics is hopelles when
comes to explaining how they work.

MarkA

unread,
May 7, 2009, 8:00:05 AM5/7/09
to
On Tue, 05 May 2009 19:08:36 -0700, janpajak wrote:

>
> P.S. The experiemnts that I described are relatively easy to complete.
> So perhaps at the nearest meeting with your friends you should
> complete one of them just to see that they DO NOT HAVE A PHYSICAL
> EXPLANATION and that the modern science of physics is hopelles when
> comes to explaining how they work.

Your experimental protocol would have a tad more credibility if it didn't
include a whole paragraph of ready-made excuses for why it might not work.

janp...@gmail.com

unread,
May 8, 2009, 11:37:08 PM5/8/09
to
On May 8, 12:00 am, MarkA <t...@nowhere.com> wrote:
...

> Your experimental protocol would have a tad more credibility if it didn't
> include a whole paragraph of ready-made excuses for why it might not work.
...
> MarkA

W item #E7.2 of the web pages

described is another experiment which also proves the existence of
souls and which works each time - so there is NO excuse for you to NOT
complete it.

Albert van der Horst

unread,
May 16, 2009, 2:46:43 PM5/16/09
to
In article <6ece2c15-96b7-4ec2...@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
<janp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 6, 12:02=A0am, MarkA <t...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 May 2009 19:29:26 -0700, janpajak wrote:
>> > Even in bad times one can hear a good news. It turns out that
>> > according the the English saying "seeing is believing" now we can see
>> > with our own eyes a relatively simple experiment which demonstrates
>> > that each one amongst us actually does have an immortal soul. So when
>>
>> I'm embarrassed to say that I actually read the long description of the
>> "experimental protocol", which boils down to this: =A0one person stands w=
>ith
>> arms straight down, locked at his side, while 2 people lift him. =A0Perso=

>n
>> then "convinces his soul" to stick his feet to the ground, and the 2
>> people try to lift him again. =A0According to the OP, they won't be able =

>to,
>> thus proving the existence of the soul.
>>
>> Apparently, the OP has never heard of the "power bracelets" scam: =A0Put =

>a
>> brick in a sturdy brown paper bag, and invite the mark to try to lift it.
>> It will feel *very* heavy. =A0Then, you put on the <whatever you want to
>> sell>, and try again. =A0The bag feels much lighter, because of the magic=

>al
>> effect of <whatever you want to sell>, thereby justifying the outrageous
>> price you are planning to charge. =A0The trick works because you normally
>> expect a brown paper bag to contain something that weighs about as much a=
>s
>> a ham sandwich. =A0After lifting it once, your brain registers that it is

>> heavier than usual, so you subconsciously put more power into the second
>> lift. =A0Try taking the "power bracelets" off, and lifting it again: it

>> won't go back to being real heavy.
>>
>> --
>> MarkA
>> Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
>> About eight o'clock
>
>Well, the brick in a brown paper you still can lift after all. But a
>person whose soul joins his body with the native rock undeground you
>will NOT be able to lift, whatever effort you would put into this. So
>your explanation shows a bit simplistic view of the matter.
>Furthermore, your views do NOT explain how you can lift a whole heavy
>person with four stretched fingers (as described in item #E7.2 of my
>web page "soul_proof.htm") - unless you admit that the soul of this
>person really makes his body weightless. So sorry but you must seek
>another explanation.

The experiment is standard fare in ki aikido.
Not only that, those experiments are pretty impressive.
Although the explanations are far from satisfying, souls don't
come to it. (Mostly we talk about streaming "ki".)
I could make an attempt to give a scientific explanation
but I won't. In order to advance science we would need a well
conducted experiment, good measurements of forces as well as metabolism
in muscles, (e.g. infra red camera's.
Then we might (just might) extract a phenomenon that would require
some reasoning to explain.

>
>With the totaliztic salute,
>Jan Pajak
>
>P.S. The experiemnts that I described are relatively easy to complete.
>So perhaps at the nearest meeting with your friends you should
>complete one of them just to see that they DO NOT HAVE A PHYSICAL
>EXPLANATION and that the modern science of physics is hopelles when
>comes to explaining how they work.
>


--
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- like all pyramid schemes -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

Benj

unread,
May 16, 2009, 5:01:20 PM5/16/09
to
On May 16, 2:46 pm, Albert van der Horst <alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
wrote:

> The experiment is standard fare in ki aikido.
> Not only that, those experiments are pretty impressive.
> Although the explanations are far from satisfying, souls don't
> come to it. (Mostly we talk about streaming "ki".)
> I could make an attempt to give a scientific explanation
> but I won't. In order to advance science we would need a well
> conducted experiment, good measurements of forces as well as metabolism
> in muscles, (e.g. infra red camera's.
> Then we might (just might) extract a phenomenon that would require
> some reasoning to explain.

Well I'm glad to see that there is at least ONE person here with a
scientific attitude! Everyone else seems to have some propaganda to
push. First lets ask if lightning exists. Debunkers would argue
because it's not repeatable on command at a specified location it does
not. But does that make lightning nonsense and unworthy of scientific
study? You all know the answer. Does a lightning strike offer proof
that Zeus exists and throws "thunderbolds"? You know the answer to
that as well.

So let's strip off all the metaphysical talk of "souls" and "Ki" and
any other made-up "explanations". They are mere theories, nothing
more. They will be evaluated on agreement with experiment. Instead
let's start at the crux of the issue: The change of the weight of a
human body in certain specialized (and largely unknown) conditions.
First let's search the literature. Do we find ANY historical records
of humans effecting a change in weight. The answer is yes we do!
There is Jesus walking on water, of course, but in modern times it
goes beyond that. There are a number of well-witnessed cases of
certain persons (saints etc.) floating up from the ground. There are
even cases of the medium D.D.Home who was witnessed on a number of
occasions to float to the ceiling by the very scientists we today take
as providing the foundations of classical physics. Somehow we believe
they were competent to carefully observe electricity, but were not
competent to observe a guy floating off the floor!

So one given a hint that something is possible to happen, the next
stage of investigation would be to start to find out how, why and when
it happens. But of course, this is where debunkers and so-called
pseudo-skeptics enter in. They simply use "proof by assertion" and
name-calling to declare that "everybody knows" such things are
"impossible". Well if they are "impossible" then how did they happen
once? It's truly amazing how anyone claiming to be a scientist could
be gullible enough to fall for this claptrap.

It is only at the FINAL stage of investigation where once the
phenomena is understood that theories as to "souls" or "Ki" or what
have you can be put forth. Obviously the fundies are trying to force
the cart before the horse for political purposes which makes them
every bit as bad as the lefty-debunkers pushing their atheist God-free
vision of communal utopia.

MarkA

unread,
May 18, 2009, 8:25:28 AM5/18/09
to
On Sat, 16 May 2009 14:01:20 -0700, Benj wrote:

> On May 16, 2:46 pm, Albert van der Horst <alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> The experiment is standard fare in ki aikido.
>> Not only that, those experiments are pretty impressive.
>> Although the explanations are far from satisfying, souls don't
>> come to it. (Mostly we talk about streaming "ki".)
>> I could make an attempt to give a scientific explanation
>> but I won't. In order to advance science we would need a well
>> conducted experiment, good measurements of forces as well as metabolism
>> in muscles, (e.g. infra red camera's.
>> Then we might (just might) extract a phenomenon that would require
>> some reasoning to explain.
>
> Well I'm glad to see that there is at least ONE person here with a
> scientific attitude! Everyone else seems to have some propaganda to
> push. First lets ask if lightning exists. Debunkers would argue
> because it's not repeatable on command at a specified location it does
> not. But does that make lightning nonsense and unworthy of scientific
> study? You all know the answer. Does a lightning strike offer proof
> that Zeus exists and throws "thunderbolds"? You know the answer to
> that as well.

You don't need to be able to reproduce something to make it scientific.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "debunker", but it doesn't sound like a
rational skeptic.

>
> So let's strip off all the metaphysical talk of "souls" and "Ki" and
> any other made-up "explanations". They are mere theories, nothing
> more. They will be evaluated on agreement with experiment. Instead
> let's start at the crux of the issue: The change of the weight of a
> human body in certain specialized (and largely unknown) conditions.
> First let's search the literature. Do we find ANY historical records
> of humans effecting a change in weight. The answer is yes we do!
> There is Jesus walking on water, of course, but in modern times it
> goes beyond that. There are a number of well-witnessed cases of
> certain persons (saints etc.) floating up from the ground. There are
> even cases of the medium D.D.Home who was witnessed on a number of
> occasions to float to the ceiling by the very scientists we today take
> as providing the foundations of classical physics. Somehow we believe
> they were competent to carefully observe electricity, but were not
> competent to observe a guy floating off the floor!

There are a number of ways to produce the *illusion* of floating off the
floor. Scientists are often easier to deceive than are lay people. For
one thing, scientists operate with the expectation that the world is as it
appears to be. If you want a "scientific" explanation for a trick, the
best person to ask is another illusionist.

>
> So one given a hint that something is possible to happen, the next
> stage of investigation would be to start to find out how, why and when
> it happens. But of course, this is where debunkers and so-called
> pseudo-skeptics enter in. They simply use "proof by assertion" and
> name-calling to declare that "everybody knows" such things are
> "impossible". Well if they are "impossible" then how did they happen
> once? It's truly amazing how anyone claiming to be a scientist could
> be gullible enough to fall for this claptrap.
>

If someone really could "float to the ceiling", it would require a LOT of
explaining. It is much more likely that it was faked. That is NOT the
same as saying that it is "impossible", just exceedingly unlikely.


> It is only at the FINAL stage of investigation where once the
> phenomena is understood that theories as to "souls" or "Ki" or what
> have you can be put forth. Obviously the fundies are trying to force
> the cart before the horse for political purposes which makes them
> every bit as bad as the lefty-debunkers pushing their atheist God-free
> vision of communal utopia.

--

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages