aa: RANT!..Detained!-and the usual big, long PF stuff..apologies in advance. <g>
Panama Floyd
(aside to theists...I'm pretty serious about the "aa" this time.)
Ok. Most of you know that I live in Atlanta, and that one of my greatest
passions is "sporting" automobiles. I've driven a Volkswagen Golf GTI (in case
anybody here's a fellow `gearhead'-A2 Golf, `92 8v. Neuspeed springs, Tokiko
shocks..no engine mods. I used to race, and still believe that you should spend
money on drivers' schools before you ask for more power..<g>) for about 10yr.
or so now.
I love my GTI, but she's got about 180,000mi. The last two times I attempted to
take it "cross-country", she had big problems (secondary fuel pump, timing belt
pulley, secondary fuel pump). I cured those problems, but at a little more cost
than I had hoped to pay.
I decided that I should just use "Little Bit" as a `daily driver', and find
another car to use for long-distance travel. I borrowed about 11k USD against
my retirement fund, and looked to buy a new car. Gotta admit..since 11k wasn't
enough to buy a *new* car of any make/model that interested me, I started
looking for a "used" car that might interest me.
I got lucky. I discovered a pretty good example of VW's last pure sports model
(the "Corrado"). The car (aside to `gearheads' again..a VR6) was in Panama
City, FL...and the kid that owned it was letting it go for about 3k less USD
than a car in the same shape (10yr old, but less than 100k mi.) would sell for
in Atlanta.
At first, no problem. I take the loan, & ask my bank for a cachier's check for
the $8500 he's asking. Not a bad deal..here in the Atl, there's enough of a VW
fan group that *any* V-6 Corrado would sell for more than 10k USD.
The problem?..well, I wished to fly down to Florida, and drive the car back. I
bought a one-way ticket for the morning "red-eye", and didn't give it a second
thought.
I only wish that the folks screening for potential terrorists here at
Hartsfield felt the same.
The young man looked at my ID, and studied my ticket. Hmmm...one-way tic, and
no baggage. He called his supervisor over, and the guy decided that he needed
to question me. At first, the questions were pretty silly..IMHO, I'm the very
model of the `average' middle-aged US white guy. Brown hair, brown eyes, big
nose, big gut, and eyeglasses.
"Are you a citizen?" (Yes, born in Florida. Here's my wallet-sized birth
certificate)
"Were your parents citizens?" (Yes, my dad was 4th generation Welsh, escaping
from the coal mines, and my mom's ancestors landed with Oglethorp's debtors on
the GA coast..funny thing, that. Both their families ended up in north
Lousiana, & they met/married/made me!)
And then, it happened.
"What religion do you believe in?"
Me: "What?"
Rent-a-cop #1: <repeats previous question>
Me: "..isn't that a *very* inappropriate question?.."
RAC #1: "..OK, but it's up to me whether or not you make your flight."
Me:.."I'm an `unbeliever'."
RAC: "..What does that mean?"
Me: "..well, uh...I don't think that *any* god exists. To me, it's all
bullshit. Your god, the arab god, they're both like Santa Claus."
RAC: "..whadafuck? You wait here! I'm not gonna let you on a airplane!"
snip 20min doing `Atheism 101' to the dumbass...and now that the dumb fuck
actually understands that there actually *are* people who don't share his af-am
concept of `jezuz an' de holy go' that don't suck up to "allah",either-the poor
guy is just confused. He's got to He locks me in the little room, and goes to
look for his supervisor (hoping that his super will make a fucking decision
about whether or not someone who doesn't believe in an `afterlife' will try to
die early or kill others is a `security risk', I suppose..<sigh>).
Praise be to whatever sick moron passes for "god" this week! The supervisor
actually apologized (after explaining to his minion that folks that don't
believe in "god" usually don't wish to die, since we all know deep down inside
that we're going to hell if we don't `get rite w/god').
The detainment cost me, tho..I arrived at the gate to see the airplane on the
taxiway. This time of year, *every* flight to Florida is overbooked. "Standby"
is just a dream.
Hey, at least when I told the Delta agent why I missed the plane, they
dismissed the fee for changing flights.
It's a happy ending, I suppose. I finally landed in Panama City `right around
8a local time on Mar.2. The car needs a tune-up, and a clutch adjustment-but
otherwise, it's in even better shape than the ad described. She's in my parking
lot right now.
I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat to my own
nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the `supernatural' held by
terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once upon a time, I said that I
thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing contest" over who had the biggest
imaginary friend.
I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long enough to
witness it for myself. <sigh>
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta
aa#2015. Member, Knights of BAAWA. EAC Minister for Automotive Recreation.
"The prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next.."
-Mark Twain
I'm the EAC...and I vote!
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
Contact the ACLU.
Sylvan Korvus
> I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat to my own
> nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the `supernatural' held by
> terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once upon a time, I said that I
> thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing contest" over who had the biggest
> imaginary friend.
Please considering sending the ACLU details of what happened;
they're collecting examples of discriminatory profiling. Also,
writing a letter of complaint to the airport & FAA may be
appropriate.
http://www.aclu.org/aviationprofiling
--
Vegan in Vancouver http://www.korvus.com/vancouvervegan
"There is no place of permanence in the Universe, no golden
existence, no finish line. We live on the edge of chaos, with
all the turbulence that implies..." - Linda Nagata, "Vast"
The Plasmatron
> Contact the ACLU.
I must second the suggestion. If they're really going to start
detaining people for being atheists then that worries the fuck out of
me. How am I going to flee when the shit really hits the fan if they're
already starting to detain us? Ok, to be honest I'll lie and say I'm
christian, but still....
--
The Left Reverend Plasm...@godisdead.com
Clayton PhuQ
"Panama Floyd" <panam...@aol.compare> wrote in message
news:20020304020806...@mb-mc.aol.com...
Write to every letter page of every nation publication you can think of and
send word to the ACLU too. As you said, it all turned out good, but this
sort of absurdity should be exposed to as many right thinking people as
possible. No need to do anything litigious, but make a loud objection to
this discrimination.
Jeremy Martin
> I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat to
> my own nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the
> `supernatural' held by terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once
> upon a time, I said that I thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing
> contest" over who had the biggest imaginary friend.
I say press with it and get their ass kicked. Legally speaking, anyway.
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
My band, Flatline -> http://flatline.neethost.com/
"me and u should get groovey, i like u and ur boobies, ill take u to the
movies and fill ur pepsi with roofies"
- Hamburglar, SA Forums
Dr. Smartass
news:20020304020806...@mb-mc.aol.com:
> Hi folks...
<snip rant, but not for lack of sympathy>
I've heard similar detainment stories on NPR's "Le Show" (Harry
Shearer)...can't remember much about them, now, but some of the folks on
guard duty are squirrely and power-drunk; bad combination. One guy was
taking a cake or a pie on a flight; the guards would only let him pass if
he ate a piece of it to prove it wasn't laced with explosives. Then there
are the elderly people who get pulled aside (guess they're a threat because
they're old and ready to kick off, or something)...sheesh
--
Chase's Observations of Human Belief
1.The most preposterous notion that Homo Sapiens has ever dreamed up is
that there is a Lord God of Creation.
2.That this God is the shaper and ruler of all the universe.
3.That this God lives up in the sky.
4.That this God wants the saccharine adoration of his creatures and can be
swayed by their prayers.
5.That this God becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery;
Conclusion - This absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster
it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive
industry in all history.
raven1
wrote:
>snip 20min doing `Atheism 101' to the dumbass...and now that the dumb fuck
>actually understands that there actually *are* people who don't share his af-am
>concept of `jezuz an' de holy go' that don't suck up to "allah",either-the poor
>guy is just confused. He's got to He locks me in the little room, and goes to
>look for his supervisor (hoping that his super will make a fucking decision
>about whether or not someone who doesn't believe in an `afterlife' will try to
>die early or kill others is a `security risk', I suppose..<sigh>).
>
I'd speak to a lawyer. Seems to me that you've got grounds for one
hell of a lawsuit. At the very least you can probably get your plane
fare reimbursed.
Abner Mintz
> I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat to my own
> nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the `supernatural' held by
> terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once upon a time, I said that I
> thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing contest" over who had the biggest
> imaginary friend.
"Seriously, go to the ACLU *now* - write down every detail, while
it is still fresh in your memory, get the names of the people you
talked with at the airlines, and use the ACLU to pound their heads
flat. If we don't fight this kind of thing now, it will become
standard operating procedures ... bureaucracies ossify quickly."
"Right now, IMO, you've got a duty to your fellow Americans to
use what happened to you for good. It'll probably be interesting
and fun, too." *strikes up band playing patriotic music and grins*
Woden
"Panama Floyd" <panam...@aol.compare> wrote in message
news:20020304020806...@mb-mc.aol.com...
I would echo what some of the others have said & get the ACLU involved but
also add that you might try to get the press involved as well. A little (or
lot) of bad press is good for the gov't & beauracracy. Hopefully, you got
the names of the fools involved.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
Tess
"Panama Floyd" <panam...@aol.compare> wrote :
> Hi folks...
>
> (aside to theists...I'm pretty serious about the "aa" this time.)
<snip>
> I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat
to my own
> nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the
`supernatural' held by
> terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once upon a time, I said
that I
> thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing contest" over who had the
biggest
> imaginary friend.
>
> I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long
enough to
> witness it for myself. <sigh>
I really can't add anything to what's already been suggested, other
than my sympathies. I think everyone who has suggested the ACLU, a
lawyer, and going to the media is correct, and I'd love to see you get
them in a shitload of trouble. Policies are policies, but that was
just absurd!
Jkwdawgs
>>
>> (aside to theists...I'm pretty serious about the "aa" this time.)
>
><snip>
>
>> I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat
>to my own
>> nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the
>`supernatural' held by
>> terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once upon a time, I said
>that I
>> thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing contest" over who had the
>biggest
>> imaginary friend.
>>
>> I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long
>enough to
>> witness it for myself. <sigh>
>
>I really can't add anything to what's already been suggested, other
>than my sympathies. I think everyone who has suggested the ACLU, a
>lawyer, and going to the media is correct, and I'd love to see you get
>them in a shitload of trouble. Policies are policies, but that was
>just absurd!
Hey, I happen to know quite a few people involved in the ACLU here in Georgia..
so hopefully the names and numbers below are of help.
Eric Krasle - On the Board of Directors
els...@aol.com
Kim Holmes - Devopment Director
kho...@acluga.org
And in case you don't know it.. here's the number for the main office in
Atlanta
404-523-6201
Jen
Orhan Orgun
I'd also write teh NYT and other intelligent papers. Maybe NPR even.
I'm serious. If you manage to get past the lowest level screening
drones, they ought to give a lot of atention to this. And yes, the
ACLU. They should sue the fuck out of the airport authority or whoever
the hell is responsible for security checks. And bop W (and more so,
his dad) on the head with a pick ax for implicitly (explicitly in case
of the dad) sending the loser bozos the message that faithless folk
are evil.
BTW, why on earth did you give in and answer his "what's your
religion" question. Why didn't you say "none of your fucking business,
asshole" (not in these words)?
__________________________________________
Orhan Orgun aa#1867
Relax, don't worry, have a home-brew
Note: you need to de-"bug" the e-mail address to e-mail me!
Petteri Sulonen
<panam...@aol.compare> wrote:
> Hi folks...
>
> (aside to theists...I'm pretty serious about the "aa" this time.)
[snip rant]
I was going to suggest you kick up as big a row about this as you can,
but it seems others have already done that.
So instead I'll just congratulate you about the car. That's one hell of
a set of wheels. It's really a shame VW stopped manufacturing it. I'd
like to own one myself one day...
/Petteri
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with
experience. -- Andrew Welch
jwk
> Hi folks...
[snip]
I agree with contacting the ACLU and writing the airline. Legal
action really needs to wait until you try these courses of action.
Even then, litigation might be more trouble than it's worth as I'm
sure you know.
The ACLU on the other hand will direct you on how to handle this.
They'll add your story to any others they are collecting and they have
the resources to take action on behalf of all complainants.
Just for fun, send a copy to American Atheists. And let ~us~ know how
things turn out. I'd be glad to join a letter writing campaign
against the airline.
One problem with airline screeners is that the airlines, who are
responsible for these morons, will brush these problems off by saying
"they'll all be under government supervision soon". That is a
cop-out. We shouldn't let them get away with it. The airline is
still responsible for any crap that happens before the government
takes over.
jwk
*nemo*
news:20020304020806...@mb-mc.aol.com...
> Hi folks...
hiya!
<snip>
Such is the twistings and turnings of an unaware mind. I'll bet they never
thought to encounter an "atheist" who'd *admit it in public.* The poor saps.
> The detainment cost me, tho..I arrived at the gate to see the airplane on
the
> taxiway. This time of year, *every* flight to Florida is overbooked.
"Standby"
> is just a dream.
>
> Hey, at least when I told the Delta agent why I missed the plane, they
> dismissed the fee for changing flights.
>
Huh. When I complained, they told me I should do the patriotic thing and
bend over with a smile.
> It's a happy ending, I suppose. I finally landed in Panama City `right
around
> 8a local time on Mar.2. The car needs a tune-up, and a clutch
adjustment-but
> otherwise, it's in even better shape than the ad described. She's in my
parking
> lot right now.
>
hope it works out well for you - the car, I mean. And good for you that you
didn't do the easy thing and tell the Federal rent-a-cop what he wanted to
hear. These people have a lot to learn when trying to play mind-games...
<snip>
> -Panama Floyd, Atlanta
> aa#2015. Member, Knights of BAAWA. EAC Minister for Automotive Recreation.
>
> "The prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next.."
> -Mark Twain
>
> I'm the EAC...and I vote!
>
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.att.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
**************************************************
A little hedonism never hurt anybody...
**************************************************
maky m.
you have been a victim of *typical* southener stupidity, if you ask me.
Daneel
> Panama Floyd wrote:
<snip airport detainment story>
> > I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long enough to
> > witness it for myself. <sigh>
>
> you have been a victim of *typical* southener stupidity, if you ask me.
Do you mean stories like smalltown sheriff telling the atheist
in the local motel to leave, as posted on aa few years back?
bye
Daneel [aa #323 | U of E student #000666]
**********************************************************************
Beethoven is the Mozart of music.
Don't drink unwashed fruit juices!
----------<SPAM BAIT>----------
tos...@aol.com ab...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com u...@ftc.gov
ab...@hotmail.com ab...@msn.com ab...@mindspring.net
abuse-n...@uu.net ab...@dialsprint.net ab...@earthlink.com
postm...@attglobal.net ab...@bellsouth.net ab...@sympatico.ca
The Plasmatron
> maky m. wrote:
>> Panama Floyd wrote:
> <snip airport detainment story>
>> > I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long enough to
>> > witness it for myself. <sigh>
>>
>> you have been a victim of *typical* southener stupidity, if you ask me.
> Do you mean stories like smalltown sheriff telling the atheist
> in the local motel to leave, as posted on aa few years back?
Oh, goody. When was this?
Daneel
> Daneel wrote:
> > maky m. wrote:
> >> Panama Floyd wrote:
> > <snip airport detainment story>
> >> > I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long enough to
> >> > witness it for myself. <sigh>
> >>
> >> you have been a victim of *typical* southener stupidity, if you ask me.
>
> > Do you mean stories like smalltown sheriff telling the atheist
> > in the local motel to leave, as posted on aa few years back?
>
> Oh, goody. When was this?
A few years back :) I'm not clear on details, but IIRC it was
posted by someone first-person whom it happened.
Laura
> > > in the local motel to leave, as posted on aa few years back?
> >
> > Oh, goody. When was this?
>
> A few years back :) I'm not clear on details, but IIRC it was
> posted by someone first-person whom it happened.
funny if you aren't familiar with unix, but still...
http://www.vtiscan.com/~bredmold/unix-demon.html
Laura
Lord Calvert
>funny if you aren't familiar with unix, but still...
>
>http://www.vtiscan.com/~bredmold/unix-demon.html
>
Makes you wonder what they think of the mascot of Duke University. Oh
wait...since that's in the South it must be OK.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX)
"When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases." - Robert Anton
Wilson
The Plasmatron
> http://www.vtiscan.com/~bredmold/unix-demon.html
<shudder> Ugh, I doubt I could have handled it any better
either. I have to admit to wondering what would have happened if she'd
mentioned Unix ;)
Panama Floyd
>From: Christopher A. Lee chri...@earthlink.net
>Date: 3/4/02 2:36 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <a0968uo8uh2mh49sq...@4ax.com>
>
>On 04 Mar 2002 07:08:06 GMT, panam...@aol.compare (Panama Floyd)
>wrote:
>
>Contact the ACLU.
Gotta admit..I actually thought about it. After I missed my flight, I returned
to the screening area, and searched for the folks that started the whole thing.
Didn't find them. I asked the folks on duty about where to find the records of
detained passengers..they (said..<bfg>) didn't know. I finally realized that I
just didn't have the documentation, or the evidence to make a case (at the
time, I just wanted to catch my airplane!).
Yeah, I was tempted. I could dream of my face over on the Am-Ath website as a
`fighter' for the cause of atheism...
..and then I recalled that such behavior by the thiests have been the
inspiration for most of the "flames" I've made. I don't want to be a martyr,
and I would hate m'self for starting such a case without the *proof*.
Hey, that's probably why I just whined about it *here* without calling a lawyer
in the first place! <bfg>
Panama Floyd
>Date: 3/4/02 2:43 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <a5v8j6$16l$2...@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu>
>
>On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:36:10 GMT Christopher A. Lee <chri...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>> On 04 Mar 2002 07:08:06 GMT, panam...@aol.compare (Panama Floyd)
>> wrote:
>
>> Contact the ACLU.
>
> I must second the suggestion. If they're really going to start
>detaining people for being atheists then that worries the fuck out of
>me.
Hey, I was detained (at first) for having a one-way tic, and no baggage. The
reason my detainment was 2hr., rather than 15min was because the stupid
rent-a-cop didn't know WTF an atheist *was*.
I'm not kidding...it took me 20min to explain to the guy what I meant by
"unbeliever". He'd never met someone who *really* doesn't believe in any sort
of "god" at all. At Hartsfield (a very busy "hub" airport), he'd seen Muzzies,
Jews, Bhuddists, and Wiccans.
It was an entirely alien concept to him. He'd probably seen about 100 different
expressions of "god", but the poor dumb fuck really didn't understand that
there might be people that didn't swallow any of that shit.
> How am I going to flee when the shit really hits the fan if they're
>already starting to detain us? Ok, to be honest I'll lie and say I'm
>christian, but still....
I must admit..I was *tempted*! But I just couldn't.
Relax, Plas...my little tale is not evidence that the theistic slaves in the US
are seeking to persecute atheists...in my case, the dumbass just didn't know
WTF an atheist was, and wasn't brave enough to make a decision about whether or
not to let me on the `plane. The poor fuck was just trying to keep his job.
Y'know, I'm not even mad anymore...like I said above, I was detained at first
because I had a one-way ticket, and no baggage (I was buying a car, and wanted
to fly there, and drive my car back).
It worked out OK...I showed the Delta agent my cashier's check for the car I
was buying, told him my sob story, and he waived the "change flight" fee.
And the car's great! Worth the `extra effort'...<bfg>
Panama Floyd
>Date: 3/4/02 3:29 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <pvl78ucekm8rnvqak...@4ax.com>
snip.
>BTW, why on earth did you give in and answer his "what's your
>religion" question. Why didn't you say "none of your fucking business,
>asshole" (not in these words)?
1.) I did. My "...I don't think that's an appropriate question.." was meant as
a polite version. <g>
2.) Because I'm tired of lying. When I said that I thought the religion
question was inappropriate, the guy flatly stated that I wasn't going to get on
*any* airplane without answering it. I tried the `polite' version..and it
didn't work. It didn't work because the poor fool had never been exposed to
such a way of thought.
I just `boiled over', I suppose. I recalled every single time I'd been asked to
lie about my atheism. "Can't you just pretend, for Grandma's sake?" "Just keep
quiet...don't make waves."
My parents, my (former) wife, my sibling, my bosses, my girlfriends...
I'm sick & tired of lying about having made the greatest discovery about life
that *anyone* could find. I'm embarassed that the folks who discovered that
freedom before I did were not vocal enough within my society to show *everyone*
that such a way of thought might be a pretty good way to live.
To sum it up, it pisses me off that the poor bastard didn't even know it's
*possible* to question the existence of a "god".
Anyway..to me, that pathetic lil' rent-a-cop's question was like asking me to
move to the back of the bus (apologies for the US social reference..during
racial segregation here, Black Americans could not sit in the front of mass
transit buses). I just couldn't "pretend" anymore.
Panama Floyd
>Date: 3/4/02 3:29 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Xns91C719739C682je...@209.249.90.101>
>
>[alt.atheism] Panama Floyd (panam...@aol.compare):
>
>> I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat to
>> my own nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the
>> `supernatural' held by terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once
>> upon a time, I said that I thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing
>> contest" over who had the biggest imaginary friend.
>
>I say press with it and get their ass kicked. Legally speaking, anyway.
>
Thanks for the thought, Deth..but I have no evidence. I think I'd do more harm
than good by pressing the issue. I'd love to see someone really fuck these
people up, but I don't have the stuff to `make it stick'.
Panama Floyd
>Date: 3/4/02 8:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <9ms68u8v8lsjg7lhr...@4ax.com>
Hey, Delta waived the "change" fee when I told them what happened. Only problem
was that "Spring Break" is starting in Panama City, and I had to fly the
"red-eye", since every flight during daylight was oversold..<bfg>
Fuck suing them. IMHO, filing lawsuits over small matters is part of the reason
why the US has `lost its way'.
Lord Calvert
>reason
>why the US has `lost its way'.
If you don't fight for your rights you WILL lose them. We have an
administration who wants to use every possible excuse to strip rights away from
the inidviduals and put it in the hands of the State. Outside of violent
revolution the legal system is the only recourse we have to insure that Bush's
totalitarian government acts the way the founding fathers set it up to act.
Bush's father is already on record saying that athiests shouldn't be citizens.
How much of a step will it be before that belief turns into the law of the
land, particularly under the hostile circumstances we have to live in now?
You wouldn't be suing them for your own benefit...you'd be suing them for the
40 million non-religious Americans who the adminstration already considers to
be terrorists. We're not and its time that we let them know.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX)
"The 'God is on our side' mentality was responsible for these tragic acts of
terrorism. We must not compound the dangers by a 'One Nation Under God'
response." - Anne Laurie Gaylor, September 13, 2001
Angelico
ljbr...@shadowplay.net (Laura) tapped on my shoulder and told me:
ROTFLMBAO!! Oooooo, that was great!
--
Angel Arnal, Valencia, España aa #1443 BAAWA knave | ULC Ord. Minister
http://angelico.iespana.es maky m. #(sqrt(5)-1)/2
EAC Chairperson for Bible Translation Mess-up | Official EAC Latin Lover
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John P. Boatwright Award for Creative Scientific Ignorance
> I took 1st year high school algebra, which is all a person needs
> to know in order to prove Einstein and his disciples wrong.
> Robert B. Winn
Rules at http://angelico.iespana.es/comun/jpbaward.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angelico
panam...@aol.compare (Panama Floyd) tapped on my shoulder and told
me:
> Hi folks...
>
> (aside to theists...I'm pretty serious about the "aa" this time.)
[snip]
> I got lucky. I discovered a pretty good example of VW's last pure sports model
> (the "Corrado"). The car (aside to `gearheads' again..a VR6)
Nice, nice, nice car. Red?
[snip]
> Praise be to whatever sick moron passes for "god" this week! The supervisor
> actually apologized (after explaining to his minion that folks that don't
> believe in "god" usually don't wish to die,
Got the right answer, but...
> since we all know deep down inside
> that we're going to hell if we don't `get rite w/god').
...just for the most incorrect reason. How many brainless people can
one meet in a morning? Sheesh...
[snip]
> It's a happy ending, I suppose. I finally landed in Panama City `right around
> 8a local time on Mar.2. The car needs a tune-up, and a clutch adjustment-but
> otherwise, it's in even better shape than the ad described. She's in my parking
> lot right now.
Congrats! Make her some other 100K mi.
> I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat to my own
> nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the `supernatural' held by
> terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once upon a time, I said that I
> thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing contest" over who had the biggest
> imaginary friend.
>
> I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long enough to
> witness it for myself. <sigh>
Never underestimate human stupidity.
(Won't add more advice about ACLU, lawyers and the like)
Robibnikoff
Good for you for sticking to your guns. I discussed your situation with my
husband who, while being pretty much an atheist himself, isn't always thrilled
when I let people know that I am. However, he agreed that you did the right
thing by telling that bozo exactly what you are. As he put it, "It's his right
to do so - why should he hide?"
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo and EAC Spellcaster
Delighted Member of SMASH
#1557
Daneel
<snip>
> Y'know, I'm not even mad anymore...like I said above, I was detained at first
> because I had a one-way ticket, and no baggage (I was buying a car, and wanted
> to fly there, and drive my car back).
So, no ACLU case? :)
> It worked out OK...I showed the Delta agent my cashier's check for the car I
> was buying, told him my sob story, and he waived the "change flight" fee.
>
> And the car's great! Worth the `extra effort'...<bfg>
Good! Can you drive it at high speed somewhere?
Angelico
"Daneel" <dan...@freemail.hu> tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> Panama Floyd wote:
> <snip>
> > Y'know, I'm not even mad anymore...like I said above, I was detained at first
> > because I had a one-way ticket, and no baggage (I was buying a car, and wanted
> > to fly there, and drive my car back).
>
> So, no ACLU case? :)
>
> > It worked out OK...I showed the Delta agent my cashier's check for the car I
> > was buying, told him my sob story, and he waived the "change flight" fee.
> >
> > And the car's great! Worth the `extra effort'...<bfg>
>
> Good! Can you drive it at high speed somewhere?
Arizona seems the perfect place:
http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1995-04.html
;-)
Jeff Young
> The Plasmatron
> > Daneel wrote:
> > > maky m. wrote:
> > >> Panama Floyd wrote:
> <snip airport detainment story>
> > >> > I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long enough to
> > >> > witness it for myself. <sigh>
> > >>
> > >> you have been a victim of *typical* southener stupidity, if you ask me.
>
> > > Do you mean stories like smalltown sheriff telling the atheist
> > > in the local motel to leave, as posted on aa few years back?
> >
> > Oh, goody. When was this?
>
> A few years back :) I'm not clear on details, but IIRC it was
> posted by someone first-person whom it happened.
Urban Legend. Wayne Walton. 1997. Misspelled "sherrif" if you want
to look it up on google. Said it happened many many years before then
and he couldn't even remember the name of the town. Failed to rebut
suspicion of some aa regulars that he was just trolling.
But hey, it appeared somewhere on usenet as a first-person account
sometime, so it must really have happened. Not.
Jeff
Lord Calvert
>Urban Legend. Wayne Walton. 1997. Misspelled "sherrif" if you want
>to look it up on google. Said it happened many many years before then
>and he couldn't even remember the name of the town. Failed to rebut
>suspicion of some aa regulars that he was just trolling.
>
>But hey, it appeared somewhere on usenet as a first-person account
>sometime, so it must really have happened. Not.
>
Athiests don't need phony urban legends to show discrimination against us.
There are enough documented incedents of discrimination out there that making
some up is rather superflous. My personal "favourite" was when the Chicago
Commission on Human Rights refused to allow athiest veterans of the Gulf War to
march in the city's "Welcome Home" parade after Desert Storm.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX)
"When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases." - Robert Anton
Wilson
Orhan Orgun
That's true. However, it is also true that it was *not* the bozo cop's
right to ask. Even if one happened to be an xer, I think the proper
answer to the jerk would have been, sorry pal, but that's none of your
business. One might even go straight for the counterattack: what, I
can't get on the plane if my religion is not the same as yours? Lemme
talk to your boss right away. *That* would be sticking to your guns.
Answering a question that should not have been asked is *giving in*,
not sticking to your guns. In this case, it *looks* liek sticking to
your guns because the answer is not what the asshole would have liked,
but nonetheless just the act of answering the question means you have
let this guy get away with something that was not his right to
do--namely, ask an inappropriate question and get an answer.
Panama Floyd
Hello again Orhan! Good to hear from you. I know you were replying to
Liz, but thought I'd `weigh in'..
Good idea. I should have considered that. Most of the delay seemed to
be waiting for the clown decide to start looking for his boss, rather
than attempting to resolve the situation himself. Perhaps I *should*
have been a little more aggressive.
> Answering a question that should not have been asked is *giving in*,
> not sticking to your guns. In this case, it *looks* liek sticking to
> your guns because the answer is not what the asshole would have liked,
> but nonetheless just the act of answering the question means you have
> let this guy get away with something that was not his right to
> do--namely, ask an inappropriate question and get an answer.
Good point, and well taken. I'd be interested in your comments upon a
couple of points surrounding the situation.
1.) I wasn't detained due to my atheism..it was because I held a
one-way ticket (combined with the fact that I had no baggage). I think
that only the *length* of the detainment was the result of my decision
not to lie.
2.) All I wanted was to get on that airplane. As you've probably
alread read in my replies to the "sue `em" posts..yes, I *did* think
for a moment about really attempting to `make a statement', but in my
particular case I was much more concerned about my itenerary. I was
traveling to purchase a `collector's' automobile, and wished to return
home early enough to show it off at my motor racing club's first meet
of the season. It seems that in the end, I realized the only reason I
wouldn't lie was just to preserve my `tribal posturing'. ;)
IOW: I only "stuck to my guns" after I realized I was going to miss my
flight anyway. `Practical atheism", perhaps? <g>
Hey, let me know what you think. I'm not angry-just curious. I respect
your way of thinking, and I'd like to read a little more of it!
-PF, Atl.
EAC Ambassador to the International Auto Enthusiast Community..
Eileen
Lord Calvert <forl...@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20020308120709...@mb-cv.aol.com...
> >
> Athiests don't need phony urban legends to show discrimination against us.
> There are enough documented incedents of discrimination out there that
making
> some up is rather superflous. My personal "favourite" was when the Chicago
> Commission on Human Rights refused to allow athiest veterans of the Gulf
War to
> march in the city's "Welcome Home" parade after Desert Storm.
That's a mind bender. What does the Human Rights Commission have to do with
religion? How did they know those veterans where atheists? Just curious.
Eileen #948
Jeff Young
> >
> >Urban Legend. Wayne Walton. 1997. Misspelled "sherrif" if you want
> >to look it up on google. Said it happened many many years before then
> >and he couldn't even remember the name of the town. Failed to rebut
> >suspicion of some aa regulars that he was just trolling.
> >
> >But hey, it appeared somewhere on usenet as a first-person account
> >sometime, so it must really have happened. Not.
> >
>
> Athiests don't need phony urban legends to show discrimination against us.
But it can't hurt, eh? Else why use them, as here?
> There are enough documented incedents of discrimination out there that making
> some up is rather superflous. My personal "favourite" was when the Chicago
> Commission on Human Rights refused to allow athiest veterans of the Gulf War to
> march in the city's "Welcome Home" parade after Desert Storm.
And even _this_ you've _badly_ mis-characterized (intentional? phony?)
(if it's even true -- the _only_ on-line documentation I could find
was from an American Atheists site:)
<begin quote>
To add pointed insult to injury, the City of Chicago Commission on
Human Rights refused to permit American Atheist Veterans to appear as
a group in the Fourth of July "Welcome Home" parade for the veterans
of Desert Storm in that city.
<end quote>
Note that is _doesn't_ say that any _Gulf_War_veterans_ were refused,
it says that _American_Atheist_Veterans_ were refused to march
_as_a_group_.
So, if you don't want accusations of "urban legend", suggest you stop
posting "approximations" of the truth to try to bolster some point.
Sheesh. Ironic.
Jeff
Orhan Orgun
> Hello again Orhan! Good to hear from you.
Hello, hello.
> I know you were replying to
> Liz, but thought I'd `weigh in'..
How dare you, you filthy atheist...
>
> >
> > That's true. However, it is also true that it was *not* the bozo cop's
> > right to ask. Even if one happened to be an xer, I think the proper
> > answer to the jerk would have been, sorry pal, but that's none of your
> > business. One might even go straight for the counterattack: what, I
> > can't get on the plane if my religion is not the same as yours? Lemme
> > talk to your boss right away. *That* would be sticking to your guns.
>
> Good idea. I should have considered that.
Well, of course your initial response was a version of this.
> Most of the delay seemed to
> be waiting for the clown decide to start looking for his boss, rather
> than attempting to resolve the situation himself. Perhaps I *should*
> have been a little more aggressive.
It's easy to say that a posteriori of course. At the time, you might
have thought you could get on the plane by being semi-agreeable--since
it was unpalatable to be totally agreeably.
>
> > Answering a question that should not have been asked is *giving in*,
> > not sticking to your guns. In this case, it *looks* liek sticking to
> > your guns because the answer is not what the asshole would have liked,
> > but nonetheless just the act of answering the question means you have
> > let this guy get away with something that was not his right to
> > do--namely, ask an inappropriate question and get an answer.
>
> Good point, and well taken.
Of course it doesn't mean *I* would have stuck to my guns in the same
situation. I probably would have told the guy I was a Humanistic Jew.
I often tell people that. Fact is, I often *feel* Jewish too. Like
this morning when I was listening to a truly insipid Passover song
("to the land of milk and honey, to the promised land we go. We'll all
be safe and free, to the promised land we go"), tears came to my eyes.
Of course, I would be counting on it that the bozo wpuld not have
known that a Humanistic Jew is an atheist who ethnically identifies
themselves as a Jew.
> I'd be interested in your comments upon a
> couple of points surrounding the situation.
> 1.) I wasn't detained due to my atheism..it was because I held a
> one-way ticket (combined with the fact that I had no baggage).
Yes, this does suck. The same happened to my travel agent's son.
Almost the same story in fact: his bect buddy was giving him a Camaro,
so the son buys a one way ticket, no luggage, you know the rest.
Nothing about religion though (I assume the kid is a Christian
anyway).
> I think
> that only the *length* of the detainment was the result of my decision
> not to lie.
Well, this in itself sucks. But see, if you'd *known* you were gonna
miss the plane, you might have chosen to be a lot more aggressive
about principles. But if you thought you actually had a chance to
catch the plane, it's trickier.
> 2.) All I wanted was to get on that airplane. As you've probably
> alread read in my replies to the "sue `em" posts..yes, I *did* think
> for a moment about really attempting to `make a statement', but in my
> particular case I was much more concerned about my itenerary. I was
> traveling to purchase a `collector's' automobile, and wished to return
> home early enough to show it off at my motor racing club's first meet
> of the season. It seems that in the end, I realized the only reason I
> wouldn't lie was just to preserve my `tribal posturing'. ;)
>
> IOW: I only "stuck to my guns" after I realized I was going to miss my
> flight anyway. `Practical atheism", perhaps? <g>
No, I'd do the same, probably. Then again, maybe not. Who knows...I
wonder what would happen if one were to simply say "I don't have a
religion."
>
> Hey, let me know what you think. I'm not angry-just curious. I respect
> your way of thinking, and I'd like to read a little more of it!
Well, now you know. I am very brave when I talk about what other
people should do/should have done. I'm very wimpy when I'm the guy who
has to decide what to do.
Thomas P.
So, any American Atheist Veterans who were Gulf War veterans could
march in the parade as a group?
>
>Jeff
"You know", he added very gravely, "it's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle-to get one's head cut off."
Panama Floyd
> On 04 Mar 2002 07:08:06 GMT, while wandering by alt.atheism,
> panam...@aol.compare (Panama Floyd) tapped on my shoulder and told
> me:
>
> > Hi folks...
> >
> > (aside to theists...I'm pretty serious about the "aa" this time.)
>
> [snip]
>
> > I got lucky. I discovered a pretty good example of VW's last pure sports model
> > (the "Corrado"). The car (aside to `gearheads' again..a VR6)
>
> Nice, nice, nice car. Red?
Nope! Traffic enforcement has become a 2nd form of taxation here in
the ol' Southeast US (most traffic offences here result in fines..I'll
bet it's not that different in much of Europe!).
In `74 ("Oil Crisis I" over here), the national gov't started
withholding highway funds from states that didn't impose a 90kph speed
limit on their roads. Perhaps a *good* thing on a mountain 2-lane, but
pretty silly on the motorway system in a country that's about 5000km.
wide! <bg> The stupid law wasn't repealed until the late `80s (and
even then, as an `off topic' amendment to a bill that adressed a quite
different matter) I was a teen during that time (1st drivers' license,
etc.), and the height of `stealth car technology' at the time was to
buy a car painted the same color as the road. Ever notice that the
color selection for US spec Porsche/BMW/etc. models during that time
are 3 different shades of grey, and black? ;)
Sooo...no red cars. It's an artifact of my adolecence..but IMHO, a red
car is like just waving your arms and yelling, "..HEY! Mr. Officer!
I'm `speeding' now! Come get me!" <bfg>
> [snip]
>
> > Praise be to whatever sick moron passes for "god" this week! The supervisor
> > actually apologized (after explaining to his minion that folks that don't
> > believe in "god" usually don't wish to die,
>
> Got the right answer, but...
>
> > since we all know deep down inside
> > that we're going to hell if we don't `get rite w/god').
>
> ...just for the most incorrect reason. How many brainless people can
> one meet in a morning? Sheesh...
I really don't know. I just hope that I never again have the ability
to do the experiment! ;)
> [snip]
>
> > It's a happy ending, I suppose. I finally landed in Panama City `right around
> > 8a local time on Mar.2. The car needs a tune-up, and a clutch adjustment-but
> > otherwise, it's in even better shape than the ad described. She's in my parking
> > lot right now.
>
> Congrats! Make her some other 100K mi.
LOL! That's the plan! I'm only laughing because one of the plastic
radiator fittings failed today, and spewed coolant all over the
windscreen. I shut her off before it overheated, though. One thing I'm
learning about the Corrado..due to the limited production, parts are a
little more expen$ive than they are for my Golf! Hey, no real problem.
I replumbed it well enough to nurse it home. It'll just take a little
work. <g>
> > I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat to my own
> > nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the `supernatural' held by
> > terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once upon a time, I said that I
> > thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing contest" over who had the biggest
> > imaginary friend.
> >
> > I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long enough to
> > witness it for myself. <sigh>
>
> Never underestimate human stupidity.
Agreed.
> (Won't add more advice about ACLU, lawyers and the like)
Thanks, Angel. I'm a little tired of explaining why I don't wish to be
the "poster boy" for unbelievers' rights here in the land of fantasy.
Sigsnip.
PF, Atl...
..who doesn't mind turning a wrench or two to preserve our Human
Sportscar Heritage!
Panama Floyd
> panam...@aol.com (Panama Floyd) wrote in message
> >
> > Hello again Orhan! Good to hear from you.
>
> Hello, hello.
>
> > I know you were replying to
> > Liz, but thought I'd `weigh in'..
>
> How dare you, you filthy atheist...
I'm a member of a great (in the sense of `wonderful idea', *and*
`large number of conspiritors..<g>) conspiracy. It's my part-time job.
;)
> >
> > >
> > > That's true. However, it is also true that it was *not* the bozo cop's
> > > right to ask. Even if one happened to be an xer, I think the proper
> > > answer to the jerk would have been, sorry pal, but that's none of your
> > > business. One might even go straight for the counterattack: what, I
> > > can't get on the plane if my religion is not the same as yours? Lemme
> > > talk to your boss right away. *That* would be sticking to your guns.
> >
> > Good idea. I should have considered that.
>
> Well, of course your initial response was a version of this.
I thought so. Just wanted to know if we agreed.
> > Most of the delay seemed to
> > be waiting for the clown decide to start looking for his boss, rather
> > than attempting to resolve the situation himself. Perhaps I *should*
> > have been a little more aggressive.
>
> It's easy to say that a posteriori of course. At the time, you might
> have thought you could get on the plane by being semi-agreeable--since
> it was unpalatable to be totally agreeably.
I must admit..it wasn't until after the religious garbage started that
I understood that I'd be `on standby' for the rest of the day.
Probably wouldn't have been trouble if I was flying to somewhere that
nobody wants to go, but since I was attempting to fly to Florida at
the start of "spring break"..<bfg>
Considering the combined `social issues' of unbelief & late adolecent
hedonism..I must admit that when the guy started whining about
religions, I *knew* I'd never make my departure gate in time.
> > > Answering a question that should not have been asked is *giving in*,
> > > not sticking to your guns. In this case, it *looks* liek sticking to
> > > your guns because the answer is not what the asshole would have liked,
> > > but nonetheless just the act of answering the question means you have
> > > let this guy get away with something that was not his right to
> > > do--namely, ask an inappropriate question and get an answer.
> >
> > Good point, and well taken.
>
> Of course it doesn't mean *I* would have stuck to my guns in the same
> situation. I probably would have told the guy I was a Humanistic Jew.
> I often tell people that. Fact is, I often *feel* Jewish too. Like
> this morning when I was listening to a truly insipid Passover song
> ("to the land of milk and honey, to the promised land we go. We'll all
> be safe and free, to the promised land we go"), tears came to my eyes.
> Of course, I would be counting on it that the bozo wpuld not have
> known that a Humanistic Jew is an atheist who ethnically identifies
> themselves as a Jew.
ROFL, and again..most emphatically agreed! I was raised in a Southern
Baptist home, and the term "GOD DAMN!" often flows from my lips when
I'm very angry.
Even though I realize that no god exists, I still spout it as the
greatest expression of anger that my culture has created. <g>
> > I'd be interested in your comments upon a
> > couple of points surrounding the situation.
> > 1.) I wasn't detained due to my atheism..it was because I held a
> > one-way ticket (combined with the fact that I had no baggage).
>
> Yes, this does suck. The same happened to my travel agent's son.
> Almost the same story in fact: his bect buddy was giving him a Camaro,
> so the son buys a one way ticket, no luggage, you know the rest.
> Nothing about religion though (I assume the kid is a Christian
> anyway).
I suppose that post 9.11, being related to a travel agent would be an
additional `indicator'. :)
> > I think
> > that only the *length* of the detainment was the result of my decision
> > not to lie.
>
> Well, this in itself sucks. But see, if you'd *known* you were gonna
> miss the plane, you might have chosen to be a lot more aggressive
> about principles. But if you thought you actually had a chance to
> catch the plane, it's trickier.
Yes, agreed. That's what I was mentioning in my comment above. It was
a very grey area at the time. I held a small hope to catch the flight,
but my practical nature made me feel that I wouldn't. And we *all*
know what "feelings" count for `round here.. <bfg>
>
> > 2.) All I wanted was to get on that airplane. As you've probably
> > alread read in my replies to the "sue `em" posts..yes, I *did* think
> > for a moment about really attempting to `make a statement', but in my
> > particular case I was much more concerned about my itenerary. I was
> > traveling to purchase a `collector's' automobile, and wished to return
> > home early enough to show it off at my motor racing club's first meet
> > of the season. It seems that in the end, I realized the only reason I
> > wouldn't lie was just to preserve my `tribal posturing'. ;)
> >
> > IOW: I only "stuck to my guns" after I realized I was going to miss my
> > flight anyway. `Practical atheism", perhaps? <g>
>
> No, I'd do the same, probably. Then again, maybe not. Who knows...I
> wonder what would happen if one were to simply say "I don't have a
> religion."
Hmm. I share your curiosity.
> >
> > Hey, let me know what you think. I'm not angry-just curious. I respect
> > your way of thinking, and I'd like to read a little more of it!
>
> Well, now you know. I am very brave when I talk about what other
> people should do/should have done. I'm very wimpy when I'm the guy who
> has to decide what to do.
Heh, heh..I resemble that remark!
-PF, Atl.
EAC Leiason (jeez, I should really buy a dictionary printed on PAPER!)
to the International `Gearhead' Conspiracy
Angelico
panam...@aol.com (Panama Floyd) tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> Angelico <esten...@terra.es> wrote in message news:<a67q1i$c5e7g$1...@ID-90593.news.dfncis.de>...
[snip]
> > Nice, nice, nice car. Red?
>
> Nope! Traffic enforcement has become a 2nd form of taxation here in
> the ol' Southeast US (most traffic offences here result in fines..I'll
> bet it's not that different in much of Europe!).
>
> In `74 ("Oil Crisis I" over here), the national gov't started
> withholding highway funds from states that didn't impose a 90kph speed
> limit on their roads. Perhaps a *good* thing on a mountain 2-lane, but
> pretty silly on the motorway system in a country that's about 5000km.
> wide! <bg> The stupid law wasn't repealed until the late `80s (and
> even then, as an `off topic' amendment to a bill that adressed a quite
> different matter) I was a teen during that time (1st drivers' license,
> etc.), and the height of `stealth car technology' at the time was to
> buy a car painted the same color as the road. Ever notice that the
> color selection for US spec Porsche/BMW/etc. models during that time
> are 3 different shades of grey, and black? ;)
>
> Sooo...no red cars. It's an artifact of my adolecence..but IMHO, a red
> car is like just waving your arms and yelling, "..HEY! Mr. Officer!
> I'm `speeding' now! Come get me!" <bfg>
Most Corrados over here were (you don't see many today) red, bright
Ferrari-style red. A beautiful beast.
[snip]
> > > It's a happy ending, I suppose. I finally landed in Panama City `right around
> > > 8a local time on Mar.2. The car needs a tune-up, and a clutch adjustment-but
> > > otherwise, it's in even better shape than the ad described. She's in my parking
> > > lot right now.
> >
> > Congrats! Make her some other 100K mi.
>
> LOL! That's the plan! I'm only laughing because one of the plastic
> radiator fittings failed today, and spewed coolant all over the
> windscreen. I shut her off before it overheated, though. One thing I'm
> learning about the Corrado..due to the limited production, parts are a
> little more expen$ive than they are for my Golf! Hey, no real problem.
> I replumbed it well enough to nurse it home. It'll just take a little
> work. <g>
Spanish lifestyle makes a bit difficult to DIY cars. We mostly live in
high buildings, usually with a garage but sometimes they don't even
have it. It's forbidden to do repairs in the street (because of all
the oil that was spilled before they banned it) or inside the garage
(for the same reason, but this time it's the neighbors who ban it).
Only those who can afford a house have enough space for it, but
usually they're not interested in mechanics. I could pay for one of
those houses, but averything is far away from the urbanizations, so
I'd have to leave my 5yr daughter at the school doors at 7:30 am, one
hour and a half before they open. Until my kids are old enough to go
to class by themselves, I'm sentenced to live in a beehive.
Jeff Young
Do you know of any Gulf War veteran who was refused permission to
march in the "Welcome Home" parade for Gulf War veterans? Or not?
Put up or shut up. Your argument by insinuation is like cold weak
tea.
(And the answer to your question is "presumably yes until you
_document_ otherwise". An official refusal to allow some Gulf War
veteran(s) to march in the group of Gulf War veterans would certainly
have generated more press than is in evidence, on the American Atheist
site at the very least.)
Jeff
Fish
<snip>
> [...] An official refusal to allow some Gulf War
> veteran(s) to march in the group of Gulf War veterans
> would certainly have generated more press than is in
> evidence, on the American Atheist site at the very least.)
>
> Jeff
Presuming, of course, that those who were refused actually
wished to "raise a big stink" over it.
Fortunately, however, the folks at American Atheists are
apparently intelligent enough to know which "battles" are
important and which ones aren't (not to mention which ones
might conceivably lead to *negative* publicity if fought at the
wrong time in the wrong way).
Smart chaps, those American Atheists.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
alt.atheism #623
(remove "god" to reply by email)
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
He who will not reason is a bigot,
he who cannot is a fool,
he who dares not is a slave.
-- William Drummond
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Fear gan dia
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:34:22 +0100, while wandering by alt.atheism,
> "Daneel" <dan...@freemail.hu> tapped on my shoulder and told me:
>
> > Panama Floyd wote:
> > <snip>
> > > Y'know, I'm not even mad anymore...like I said above, I was detained at first
> > > because I had a one-way ticket, and no baggage (I was buying a car, and wanted
> > > to fly there, and drive my car back).
> >
> > So, no ACLU case? :)
> >
> > > It worked out OK...I showed the Delta agent my cashier's check for the car I
> > > was buying, told him my sob story, and he waived the "change flight" fee.
> > >
> > > And the car's great! Worth the `extra effort'...<bfg>
> >
> > Good! Can you drive it at high speed somewhere?
>
> Arizona seems the perfect place:
> http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1995-04.html
Urban legend, probably inspired by the 1994 movie "Terminal Velocity"
in which Charlie Sheen and Nastassja Kinski escape from some bad guys
in the Arizona Desert aboard a rocket-powered railroad cart.
Mind you, there are some really stupid drivers in Phoenix!
--
Fear gan dia # Director, EAC Division for Leaving the Toilet Seat up.
"The American people, taking one with another, constitute the most
timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and
goose-steppers ever gathered under one flag in Christendom since the
end of the Middle Ages, and ... they grow more timorous, more
sniveling, more poltroonish, more ignominious every day."
- H. L. Mencken, "On Being an American"
Eileen
Jeff Young <jie...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6f553a4.02031...@posting.google.com...
There were no atheist veterans of the Gulf War? You prove Lord Calvert's
post rather than refute it. What right does the Chigago Commission on Human
Rights have to do with religion or lack thereof??? They probably don't even
know the difference between human rights and individual rights.
>
> So, if you don't want accusations of "urban legend", suggest you stop
> posting "approximations" of the truth to try to bolster some point.
What difference does a detail make to the idea that "atheists veterans were
refused the right to participate." It shouldn't make any difference if they
were mingled with theists or if they wanted to make a statement and march as
a group.
> Sheesh. Ironic.
Well, you got that right!
Eileen #948
>
> Jeff
Fear gan dia
> On 6 Mar 2002 11:23:18 -0800 Laura <ljbr...@shadowplay.net> wrote:
> >> > > Do you mean stories like smalltown sheriff telling the atheist
> >> > > in the local motel to leave, as posted on aa few years back?
> >> >
> >> > Oh, goody. When was this?
> >>
> >> A few years back :) I'm not clear on details, but IIRC it was
> >> posted by someone first-person whom it happened.
> > funny if you aren't familiar with unix, but still...
>
> > http://www.vtiscan.com/~bredmold/unix-demon.html
>
> either. I have to admit to wondering what would have happened if she'd
> mentioned Unix ;)
Actually, it might have helped:
"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's
womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and
there be eunuchs,
which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake."
(Matthew 19:12)
Thomas P.
Do you know for a fact that there were no Gulf War veterans in the
atheist group refused permission to march? Furthermore are you
suggesting that it was okay to refuse permission to atheist war
veterans from other wars merely because they wanted to march as
atheists?
>
>(And the answer to your question is "presumably yes until you
>_document_ otherwise". An official refusal to allow some Gulf War
>veteran(s) to march in the group of Gulf War veterans would certainly
>have generated more press than is in evidence, on the American Atheist
>site at the very least.)
So it was, in your opinion, okay to refuse the atheist group
permission to march for no other reason than that they were an atheist
Angelico
hknirg...@sneakemail.com (Fear gan dia) tapped on my shoulder and
told me:
> Angelico <esten...@terra.es> wrote in message news:<a6ad5j$cu65j$7...@ID-90593.news.dfncis.de>...
> > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:34:22 +0100, while wandering by alt.atheism,
> > "Daneel" <dan...@freemail.hu> tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> >
> > > Panama Floyd wote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > Y'know, I'm not even mad anymore...like I said above, I was detained at first
> > > > because I had a one-way ticket, and no baggage (I was buying a car, and wanted
> > > > to fly there, and drive my car back).
> > >
> > > So, no ACLU case? :)
> > >
> > > > It worked out OK...I showed the Delta agent my cashier's check for the car I
> > > > was buying, told him my sob story, and he waived the "change flight" fee.
> > > >
> > > > And the car's great! Worth the `extra effort'...<bfg>
> > >
> > > Good! Can you drive it at high speed somewhere?
> >
> > Arizona seems the perfect place:
> > http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1995-04.html
>
> Urban legend,
I know, but I love the humor in the tale :-)
> probably inspired by the 1994 movie "Terminal Velocity"
> in which Charlie Sheen and Nastassja Kinski escape from some bad guys
> in the Arizona Desert aboard a rocket-powered railroad cart.
I remember the trailer on TV, not seen it.
> Mind you, there are some really stupid drivers in Phoenix!
I exchange some for those here in Valencia, deal? ;-)
Jeff Young
Shall I just _presume_ there were?? Based on _what_?? (I'll take
this as your admission that you have zero documentation that any such
veterans were refused permission to march. And since it is obviously
_extremely_ likely that there would be documentation of such a thing
if it occurred, I'll conclude that it is _extremely_ likely that
you're doing nothing other than blowing smoke out your ass.)
> Furthermore are you
> suggesting that it was okay to refuse permission to atheist war
> veterans from other wars merely because they wanted to march as
> atheists?
It's okay for organizers to refuse permission to _any_ group. In fact
that is the very _function_ of organizers, to decide how the parade
shall be organized.
> >(And the answer to your question is "presumably yes until you
> >_document_ otherwise". An official refusal to allow some Gulf War
> >veteran(s) to march in the group of Gulf War veterans would certainly
> >have generated more press than is in evidence, on the American Atheist
> >site at the very least.)
>
> So it was, in your opinion, okay to refuse the atheist group
> permission to march for no other reason than that they were an atheist
> group?
Argument by Insinuation again. The _reason_ for the refusal has not
been revealed anywhere above. As far as _you_ know, the refusal could
have been simply to keep the number of groups in the parade limited,
and/or because the request came too late. Or even, _if_ there _were_
some Gulf War veterans who were also American Atheist Veterans (which
you haven't even demonstrated anyway), then a refusal could be the
result of a very reasonable position that "we want to have all the
participating Gulf War veterans marching together in one group, not
separated into different groups (it's a "Welcome Home" parade)."
So yes, as far as anyone knows, it was _obviously_ okay to refuse the
atheist group permission to march, as above. So unless you have some
additional information, you're continuing to do nothing but blow
smoke, as usual.
Jeff
Jeff Young
> Jeff Young posted the following to alt.atheism:
>
> <snip>
>
> > [...] An official refusal to allow some Gulf War
> > veteran(s) to march in the group of Gulf War veterans
> > would certainly have generated more press than is in
> > evidence, on the American Atheist site at the very least.)
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Presuming, of course, that those who were refused actually
> wished to "raise a big stink" over it.
You still haven't given a shred of evidence that _any_person_ was
actually refused from marching. Is it your contention that the lack
of evidence in your favor actually constitutes evidence in your
favor?? That's a new one.
Jeff
Thomas P.
Pathetic.
Fish
> Fish <fi...@infidels.org.god> wrote in message news:<MPG.16f808bf8...@news.earthlink.net>...
> > Jeff Young posted the following to alt.atheism:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > [...] An official refusal to allow some Gulf War
> > > veteran(s) to march in the group of Gulf War veterans
> > > would certainly have generated more press than is in
> > > evidence, on the American Atheist site at the very least.)
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > Presuming, of course, that those who were refused actually
> > wished to "raise a big stink" over it.
>
> You still haven't given a shred of evidence that _any_person_ was
> actually refused from marching.
I wasn't offering any.
> Is it your contention that the lack
> of evidence in your favor actually constitutes evidence in your
> favor??
No.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
alt.atheism #623
(remove "god" to reply by email)
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Reality never lies, but people often
do. (Sometimes even to themselves.)
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jeff Young
Puff.
Jeff
Jeff Young
I'm sure there were. Do you have any evidence that any were members
of the group calling itself American Atheist Veterans?? Because that
was the only group which is being touted as having been refused to
march (_as_a_group_, need I remind yet again).
> You prove Lord Calvert's
> post rather than refute it. What right does the Chigago Commission on Human
> Rights have to do with religion or lack thereof???
If they were the organizers of the parade, they have every right to
admit or refuse any group (as a marching group) whatsoever. What are
you smoking?
> They probably don't even
> know the difference between human rights and individual rights.
> >
> > So, if you don't want accusations of "urban legend", suggest you stop
> > posting "approximations" of the truth to try to bolster some point.
>
> What difference does a detail make to the idea that "atheists veterans were
> refused the right to participate."
The "detail" makes the idea you quote above FALSE. Atheist veterans
were not refused the right to participate. The _group_ calling itself
American Atheist Veterans was (supposedly) refused permission to march
_as_a_group_.
> It shouldn't make any difference if they
> were mingled with theists or if they wanted to make a statement and march as
> a group.
Yes, it should make a difference, if for example the parade organizers
had wanted to _organize_ the parade (i.e. _do_their_job_) so that all
Gulf War veterans were together in one group so that they could be
recognized as a group (presumably one of the very _purposes_ of a
"Welcome Home" parade.) And another example would be the necessity of
making the parade logistically feasible by limiting the number of
different groups marching.
> > Sheesh. Ironic.
>
> Well, you got that right!
Put on your thinking cap next time you reply. You're making all kinds
of unwarranted presumptions.
Jeff
Packman
What, no fallacies?
Bored With the Boring Again
>Hi folks...
>
>(aside to theists...I'm pretty serious about the "aa" this time.)
>
>Ok. Most of you know that I live in Atlanta, and that one of my greatest
>passions is "sporting" automobiles. I've driven a Volkswagen Golf GTI (in case
>anybody here's a fellow `gearhead'-A2 Golf, `92 8v. Neuspeed springs, Tokiko
>shocks..no engine mods. I used to race, and still believe that you should spend
>money on drivers' schools before you ask for more power..<g>) for about 10yr.
>or so now.
>
>I love my GTI, but she's got about 180,000mi. The last two times I attempted to
>take it "cross-country", she had big problems (secondary fuel pump, timing belt
>pulley, secondary fuel pump). I cured those problems, but at a little more cost
>than I had hoped to pay.
>
>I decided that I should just use "Little Bit" as a `daily driver', and find
>another car to use for long-distance travel. I borrowed about 11k USD against
>my retirement fund, and looked to buy a new car. Gotta admit..since 11k wasn't
>enough to buy a *new* car of any make/model that interested me, I started
>looking for a "used" car that might interest me.
>
>I got lucky. I discovered a pretty good example of VW's last pure sports model
>(the "Corrado"). The car (aside to `gearheads' again..a VR6) was in Panama
>City, FL...and the kid that owned it was letting it go for about 3k less USD
>than a car in the same shape (10yr old, but less than 100k mi.) would sell for
>in Atlanta.
>
>At first, no problem. I take the loan, & ask my bank for a cachier's check for
>the $8500 he's asking. Not a bad deal..here in the Atl, there's enough of a VW
>fan group that *any* V-6 Corrado would sell for more than 10k USD.
>
>The problem?..well, I wished to fly down to Florida, and drive the car back. I
>bought a one-way ticket for the morning "red-eye", and didn't give it a second
>thought.
>
>I only wish that the folks screening for potential terrorists here at
>Hartsfield felt the same.
>
>The young man looked at my ID, and studied my ticket. Hmmm...one-way tic, and
>no baggage. He called his supervisor over, and the guy decided that he needed
>to question me. At first, the questions were pretty silly..IMHO, I'm the very
>model of the `average' middle-aged US white guy. Brown hair, brown eyes, big
>nose, big gut, and eyeglasses.
>
>"Are you a citizen?" (Yes, born in Florida. Here's my wallet-sized birth
>certificate)
>"Were your parents citizens?" (Yes, my dad was 4th generation Welsh, escaping
>from the coal mines, and my mom's ancestors landed with Oglethorp's debtors on
>the GA coast..funny thing, that. Both their families ended up in north
>Lousiana, & they met/married/made me!)
>
>And then, it happened.
>"What religion do you believe in?"
>Me: "What?"
>Rent-a-cop #1: <repeats previous question>
>Me: "..isn't that a *very* inappropriate question?.."
>RAC #1: "..OK, but it's up to me whether or not you make your flight."
>Me:.."I'm an `unbeliever'."
>RAC: "..What does that mean?"
>Me: "..well, uh...I don't think that *any* god exists. To me, it's all
>bullshit. Your god, the arab god, they're both like Santa Claus."
>RAC: "..whadafuck? You wait here! I'm not gonna let you on a airplane!"
>
>snip 20min doing `Atheism 101' to the dumbass...and now that the dumb fuck
>actually understands that there actually *are* people who don't share his af-am
>concept of `jezuz an' de holy go' that don't suck up to "allah",either-the poor
>guy is just confused. He's got to He locks me in the little room, and goes to
>look for his supervisor (hoping that his super will make a fucking decision
>about whether or not someone who doesn't believe in an `afterlife' will try to
>die early or kill others is a `security risk', I suppose..<sigh>).
>
>Praise be to whatever sick moron passes for "god" this week! The supervisor
>actually apologized (after explaining to his minion that folks that don't
>believe in "god" usually don't wish to die, since we all know deep down inside
>that we're going to hell if we don't `get rite w/god').
>
>The detainment cost me, tho..I arrived at the gate to see the airplane on the
>taxiway. This time of year, *every* flight to Florida is overbooked. "Standby"
>is just a dream.
>
>Hey, at least when I told the Delta agent why I missed the plane, they
>dismissed the fee for changing flights.
>
>It's a happy ending, I suppose. I finally landed in Panama City `right around
>8a local time on Mar.2. The car needs a tune-up, and a clutch adjustment-but
>otherwise, it's in even better shape than the ad described. She's in my parking
>lot right now.
>
>I guess that I'm just really pissed that I was considered a threat to my own
>nation simply because I don't share the slavery to the `supernatural' held by
>terrorists & members of the US Congress. Once upon a time, I said that I
>thought WW3 would be a simple "pissing contest" over who had the biggest
>imaginary friend.
>
>I said such a thing from the mistaken view that I wouldn't live long enough to
>witness it for myself. <sigh>
>
>-Panama Floyd, Atlanta
>aa#2015. Member, Knights of BAAWA. EAC Minister for Automotive Recreation.
>
>"The prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next.."
>-Mark Twain
>
>I'm the EAC...and I vote!
>
Here's a related story:
: "The New York Times (free reg, etc.) has a story on University of Toronto
engineering-professor-turned-cyborg Steve Mann's recent run-in with humorless
airport security. Apparently his preplanning and documents were sufficient to
get him through the Toronoto airport security on his way to St. John's in
Newfoundland, but not sufficient to get him through the St. John's airport
security on his way home. Two days later, after strip-searches, forced removal
of implants and x-raying and other ill-handling of delicate hardware, he
returned home in a wheelchair. Mann's lawyer is attempting to recover the cost
of the $56,800 in damaged hardware, while his doctors are studying his body's
response to the removal of the implants, some of which he has had for over
twenty years."
Read the story in full at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/14/technology/circuits/14MANN.html
(free reg needed)
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
| -- Bardic Motto
Awarded title of "Defacto CLuM" by "kansan" 2001-05-12
======
At one point in time, many of us actually had Jesus as
our personal lord and saviour. Unfortunately, we later
had to dismiss him for incompetence, gross negligence,
misconduct and consistent failure to show up for work.
======
Religious people believe IN god.
The religious right believes they ARE god.
======
"Hey, who needs a conscience when jeezuz died for our sins?"
-- Ahriman
====
Awarded "Brazen Sinner Medal First Class" 2002-02-09 by Georgann Chenault
Panama Floyd
> On 04 Mar 2002 07:08:06 GMT, panam...@aol.compare (Panama Floyd) wrote:
>
Snip m'self! <g>
> Here's a related story:
>
> : "The New York Times (free reg, etc.) has a story on University of Toronto
> engineering-professor-turned-cyborg Steve Mann's recent run-in with humorless
> airport security. Apparently his preplanning and documents were sufficient to
> get him through the Toronoto airport security on his way to St. John's in
> Newfoundland, but not sufficient to get him through the St. John's airport
> security on his way home. Two days later, after strip-searches, forced removal
> of implants and x-raying and other ill-handling of delicate hardware, he
> returned home in a wheelchair. Mann's lawyer is attempting to recover the cost
> of the $56,800 in damaged hardware, while his doctors are studying his body's
> response to the removal of the implants, some of which he has had for over
> twenty years."
>
Now *that's* scary. At least I could still walk after my encounter.
Apologies for my ignorance if I'm wrong..but isn't St.John (or
anyplace in N'foundland) much smaller than Toronto? Maybe the `small
town cop' thing trickles down to rent-a-cops as well.
> Read the story in full at:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/14/technology/circuits/14MANN.html
>
> (free reg needed)
Hey, thanks for the quote. I don't register for anything anymore-I got
more spam in the box when I did..
> Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
> BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
> | -- Bardic Motto
> Awarded title of "Defacto CLuM" by "kansan" 2001-05-12
> ======
> At one point in time, many of us actually had Jesus as
> our personal lord and saviour. Unfortunately, we later
> had to dismiss him for incompetence, gross negligence,
> misconduct and consistent failure to show up for work.
> ======
> Religious people believe IN god.
> The religious right believes they ARE god.
> ======
> "Hey, who needs a conscience when jeezuz died for our sins?"
> -- Ahriman
> ====
> Awarded "Brazen Sinner Medal First Class" 2002-02-09 by Georgann Chenault
-PF, Atl...from Google.
Y'all have seen the sig before.