History Channel
Elroy Willis
Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
Did ownership change or something?
All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
jwk
> Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
>
> Did ownership change or something?
>
> All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
> and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
The history channel is following the Discovery channel - pseudoscience
and now pseudo-history.
jwk
Douglas Berry
called by some Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> came forth and told
this tale in alt.atheism
>
>Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
>
>Did ownership change or something?
>
>All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
>and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
It is "Holy Week", they seem to do thios every year.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
Christopher A. Lee
<pengu...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
>Lo, many moons past, on Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:54:50 GMT, a stranger
>called by some Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> came forth and told
>this tale in alt.atheism
>
>>
>>Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
>>
>>Did ownership change or something?
>>
>>All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
>>and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
>
>It is "Holy Week", they seem to do thios every year.
What's "Holy Week"?
Serious question - I am not nor have I ever been any kind of
Christian.
JTEM
"Elroy Willis" <e...@airmail.net> wrote
> All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and
> the Bible, and I wonder if it was just because of
> Gibson's movie?
Yes.
They've done it for every "History"-based movie that
Hollywood has hyped over the last five years or more.
Don Kresch
<e...@airmail.net> let us all know that:
>
>Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
>
>Did ownership change or something?
>
>All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
>and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
Marketing. It's all about the marketing.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
*nemo*
Douglas Berry <pengu...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
> Lo, many moons past, on Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:54:50 GMT, a stranger
> called by some Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> came forth and told
> this tale in alt.atheism
>
> >
> >Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
> >
> >Did ownership change or something?
> >
> >All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
> >and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
>
> It is "Holy Week", they seem to do thios every year.
>
Nah, "Holy Week" is the week before Easter. This must be because of
Mel's Sado-porn film.
> --
>
> Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
> Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
>
> Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
> Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
Tink
> Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
>
> Did ownership change or something?
>
> All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
> and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
>
Nah, every year at this time they get all goo goo eyed over religion.
Just don't watch until after the 15th of march. Then it will be back to
the regular line up if WW2 shows.
--
"There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher-
the clergyman." [Victor Hugo]
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
johac
Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote:
> Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
>
> Did ownership change or something?
>
> All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
> and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
I'm sure that the two are not unrelated. CNN had a Jeebus special on
last week too. As expected they assume everything in the story is
'historical' and then go fishing for 'evidence' to support what they
have already decided is fact.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, bit in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis wrote:
>> Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
>> Did ownership change or something?
>> All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
>> and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
> Nah, every year at this time they get all goo goo eyed over religion.
> Just don't watch until after the 15th of march. Then it will be back to
> the regular line up if WW2 shows.
I never really used to watch it because it seemed all they had was
WWII shows and Hitler shows, but they started having some other
pretty good shows here and there. The history of american food was
a pretty good one.
duke
<pengu...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
>>All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
>>and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
>It is "Holy Week", they seem to do thios every year.
No, it's not Holy Week. That's 6 weeks away.
Gregory Gadow
> Lo, many moons past, on Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:54:50 GMT, a stranger
> called by some Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> came forth and told
> this tale in alt.atheism
>
> >
> >Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
> >
> >Did ownership change or something?
> >
> >All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
> >and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
>
> It is "Holy Week", they seem to do thios every year.
Holy Week is the week between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday. Easter
isn't until April 11 this year.
--
Gregory Gadow
tech...@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Gregory Gadow
Holy Week is the week before Easter, each day representing a specific
event leading up to the crucifiction and resurrection.
The Sunday before Easter is called Palm Sunday. It commemorates the
"triumphal entry" in to Jerusalem when Jesus entered the city riding a
donkey (or a horse or both at once, depending on the gospel you are
reading) to popular acclaim, the people waving palm branches (a symbol
of royalty) and olive branches (another symbol of royalty.) In modern
days, this day is also called "Passion Sunday", because the entry is
often followed by a reading of the Passion and crucifixion for the
benefit of those who will not be in church the next Friday.
Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, there are services daily in many
Christian churches. The traditional readings focus on such events as
when Jesus threw out the money changers from the Temple and other such
subversive acts.
Thursday is "Maundy Thursday", the commemoration of the Last Supper and
the institution of communion. The name comes from the Latin word
"mandatum", which means "command" or "order." This refers to both the
"command" to "do this in rememberance of me." Another traditional
observence on this day is a re-enactment of Jesus' washing the feet of
his disciples, usually as a show of mock humility by the lead minister
of the church.
Maundy Thursday is also the occurance of, in my opinion, one of the most
touching ceremonies. Since this night marks the time of Jesus' arrest
and trial, it is long-standing tradition in the more liturgically minded
churches to have what is called a "tennebrae" service. The name comes
from Latin and means "shadows" or "darkness." While the congregation
sings (typically one of the more sorrowful Psalms), the sanctuary of the
church is stripped bare. All of the altar linens are removed, all of the
fancy communion vessels are put away, any icons or statues are covered,
the lights are dimmed and all the candles are put out except the one
next to the communion being reserved until it is celebrated again on
Easter. The service ends in silence with the one plain candle and just
enough light for the people to exit safely.
Good Friday, the next day, marks the crucifixion. The word "good" comes
from a Germanic word meaning God, not as in the opposite of bad. The
service typically centers on the passion narrative, usually broken in to
shorter segments with sorrowful Psalms sung or read in between.
Communion is not celebrated, but it may be given out from the reserved
sacrament.
Holy Saturday is traditionally a day of quiet reflection. In liturgical
churches, it is one of the only days in the sacred calendar when
communion is not given.
Then comes Easter Sunday.
Douglas Berry
called by some duke <duckg...@cox.net> came forth and told this
tale in alt.atheism
>On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:01:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
My mistake. a quarter of century of atheism and I've forgotten the
calendar.
pan
>Elroy Willis wrote:
>
>> Anybody else notice changes in the History Channel lately?
>>
>> Did ownership change or something?
>>
>> All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
>> and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
>>
>Nah, every year at this time they get all goo goo eyed over religion.
>Just don't watch until after the 15th of march.
>Then it will be back to
>the regular line up if WW2 shows.
Yeah.
One of my co-workers refers to the History Channel as the "Military
Channel".
I do like military history, but the History Channel just carries it
too far.
The History 'International' Channel has a much more diverse topic
line.
pan
Elroy Willis
> Douglas Berry wrote:
>> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism
>>> All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
>>> and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
>> It is "Holy Week", they seem to do thios every year.
> Holy Week is the week between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday.
> Easter isn't until April 11 this year.
Easter is supposed, by some people, to be the first Sunday after the
first Venus/Friday after the first full moon, after the spring
equinox, if I remember correctly.
Easter, therefore, can never come before the spring equinox
itself, from what I can tell. This is true not only for Easter, but
also for Passover, right?
Anyone who claims that Christianity isn't based on the observations
or movement of heavenly objects such as the sun is screwed at this
point, don't you think?
The spring equinox happens around the 20th of March,
right? I've seen the 22nd used as well, and wonder exactly
how to tell which date is correct? Round it off, or take some
actual observations, eh?
Anyway, give or take a few days, after the spring equinox, we wait
until the first full moon.
That's the time that the Hebrews were supposed to have
escaped from Egypt. During a full moon right after the spring
equinox, according to the Bible.
So the Hebrews/Jews Started celebrating Passover as the first full
moon after the spring equinox. I don't think it mattered to them
which day of the week it fell on, which is why the festival floated
around just like Easter does. Is this correct according to your
understanding?
Enter Christianity, which is supposed to be based on the jewish
passover festival, and right off the bat, the holiday is a moving
one already.
Elroy Willis
> Holy Saturday is traditionally a day of quiet reflection. In liturgical
> churches, it is one of the only days in the sacred calendar when
> communion is not given.
I saw or read somewhere that Saturnday was a "day of quiet
reflection" because people were afraid of the influence of Saturn,
and believed that if they went outside on Saturnday, bad things might
happen to them. Dunno if that's true or not...
Fred Stone
> Gregory Gadow <tech...@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>
>>Holy Saturday is traditionally a day of quiet reflection. In liturgical
>>churches, it is one of the only days in the sacred calendar when
>>communion is not given.
>
>
> I saw or read somewhere that Saturnday was a "day of quiet
> reflection" because people were afraid of the influence of Saturn,
> and believed that if they went outside on Saturnday, bad things might
> happen to them. Dunno if that's true or not...
>
That doesn't explain the Roman "Saturnalia" holiday which was the five
days between the end of the 360-day Roman calendar and the start of the
New Year. Those days "didn't count" and all forms of license and revelry
were permitted.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Gregory Gadow
> Gregory Gadow <tech...@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Holy Saturday is traditionally a day of quiet reflection. In liturgical
> > churches, it is one of the only days in the sacred calendar when
> > communion is not given.
>
> I saw or read somewhere that Saturnday was a "day of quiet
> reflection" because people were afraid of the influence of Saturn,
> and believed that if they went outside on Saturnday, bad things might
> happen to them. Dunno if that's true or not...
I can't speak of Saturday's in general, but Holy Saturday marks the day that
Jesus laid in the tomb. During the Middle Ages, it was treated as a day of
general mourning, with festivities and public assemblies prohibited by law.
In monastaries, there was no mass, just the Daily Office.
Elroy Willis
Yes, I've read about that. More "overlapping" beliefs about the same
heavenly object over time and between cultures, so it seems...
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis wrote:
>> Gregory Gadow <tech...@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>>> Holy Saturday is traditionally a day of quiet reflection. In liturgical
>>> churches, it is one of the only days in the sacred calendar when
>>> communion is not given.
>> I saw or read somewhere that Saturnday was a "day of quiet
>> reflection" because people were afraid of the influence of Saturn,
>> and believed that if they went outside on Saturnday, bad things might
>> happen to them. Dunno if that's true or not...
> I can't speak of Saturday's in general, but Holy Saturday marks the day that
> Jesus laid in the tomb. During the Middle Ages, it was treated as a day of
> general mourning, with festivities and public assemblies prohibited by law.
> In monastaries, there was no mass, just the Daily Office.
What do you make of the "halo" around Jesus' head in the following
link from the vatican?
http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/index_saints-blesseds_en.html
Astrological symbols?
Notice how Jesus has a four pack instead of a six pack. What's the
fattest Jesus you've ever seen pinned to a cross?
Gregory Gadow
> Gregory Gadow <tech...@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Douglas Berry wrote:
> >> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism
>
> >>> All day long yesterday was shows about Jesus and the Bible,
> >>> and I wonder if it was just because of Gibson's movie?
>
> >> It is "Holy Week", they seem to do thios every year.
>
> > Holy Week is the week between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday.
> > Easter isn't until April 11 this year.
>
> Easter is supposed, by some people, to be the first Sunday after the
> first Venus/Friday after the first full moon, after the spring
> equinox, if I remember correctly.
The Sunday after the "liturgical full moon" on after (but never on) the "liturgical
spring equinox."
Back when of Easter was fixed in the 4th century, the date was considered too
important to be left to local observation. The date of the full moon is figured
according to a 19 year cycle rather than by actual observence. This was necessary,
as you needed to know the date of Easter several months in advance in order to
begin Lent on the correct day. The upshot is that there are 19 possible dates for
the "paschal full moon", with Easter on the Sunday that follows. (A chart is
available at http://www.stormloader.com/ajy/easter.html)
Western and Eastern Christendom both use the same calculation for figuring the
date of Easter. The different dates between the Catholic/Protestant and Orthodox
Easters comes from the fact that the Orthodox Churches still use the Julian
Calendar for figuring liturgical dates. Since the equinox is figured by astronomy
rather than a schedule, the Western and Eastern Easters are never off by more than
a week.
> Easter, therefore, can never come before the spring equinox
> itself, from what I can tell. This is true not only for Easter, but
> also for Passover, right?
Because of the way Easter is calculated, it is possible -- albeit very rare -- for
Easter to fall on the Spring Equinox, depending on where on the planet you are. In
most cases, Easter falls after the equinox.
There is a canon of the First Nicene Council which requires that Easter always fall
*after* the Passover. This canon, however, is only found in the records of smaller
churches considered "heretical" by both the Roman and Byzantine churches. None of
the "accepted" churches recognizes this canon.
> Anyone who claims that Christianity isn't based on the observations
> or movement of heavenly objects such as the sun is screwed at this
> point, don't you think?
One can make that argument just by looking at the "seventh day." Counting the
number of sunrises for liturgical purposes strikes me as an "observation of
heavenly objects such as the sun."
> The spring equinox happens around the 20th of March,
> right? I've seen the 22nd used as well, and wonder exactly
> how to tell which date is correct? Round it off, or take some
> actual observations, eh?
I honestly do not know. Around the time of the Nicene Council, the Spring Equinox
usually fell between March 21 and 25. (FYI, the prominence of March 25, June 25,
September 27 and December 25 in the Christian calendar are directly because of the
dates of the equinoxes and solstices.) The impetus for the calendar reform of Pope
Gregory XIII in 1582 was to restore Easter to sooner after March 21; in the Julian
Calendar, Easter was falling any where from April 1 and May 4. Under the Gregorian
Calendar, Easter now falls between March 22 and April 25. Under the Julian
Calendar, Easter currently falls between April 4 and May 8.
> Anyway, give or take a few days, after the spring equinox, we wait
> until the first full moon.
>
> That's the time that the Hebrews were supposed to have
> escaped from Egypt. During a full moon right after the spring
> equinox, according to the Bible.
>
> So the Hebrews/Jews Started celebrating Passover as the first full
> moon after the spring equinox. I don't think it mattered to them
> which day of the week it fell on, which is why the festival floated
> around just like Easter does. Is this correct according to your
> understanding?
Not quite.
The first, second and eighth days of Passover are "festivals of no work." (The
tradition of observing the second day with all the strictures and customs of the
first day arose when dates were set by actual astronomical observation. By
celebrating the second day, it was figured that one of the two events would be the
correct date.) Festivals of no work are not allowed to fall on a Friday; that makes
preparing for the Sabbath too difficult. In such cases, the festival is moved
forward to start on the Sabbath.
> Enter Christianity, which is supposed to be based on the jewish
> passover festival, and right off the bat, the holiday is a moving
> one already.
One of the earliest controversies of the Church was about when to celebrate the
Resurrection. An early movement wanted it to fall on the 14th of Nisan, the first
night of Passover. When this controversy broke out about 150 CE, there was already
a very strong anti-Semitism in the Church (see * below) and a majority of
Christians wanted to celebrate the resurrection on a Sunday.
By the Nicene Council in 325, anti-Semitism had become institutionalized in both
accepted Scripture and and religious custom. Constantine requested -- and, of
course, received -- a method of figuring Easter not based on Passover. Since Jewish
Christians had all but become extinct (or run to ground as "heretics"), the current
calculation for Easter was accepted with almost no dissent. The canon from the
Council that moved Easter to fall after Passover if the two dates coincided is
apocryphal and is not a part of either the Catholic/Protestant or Orthodox
traditions. Constantine's anti-Semitic diatribe at the end of the Council is, alas,
part of historic fact.
* The root of Christian anti-Semitism is based in the considerable privilege that
the Jewish people held as part of the Roman Empire. Jews were allowed to retain
their distinct religious beliefs and customs without them being coopted in to the
State Cult (as happened with many other religions from the provinces.) Even more
important, they were exempt from participating in the State Cult.
Christianity was, at first, a political/religious movement that sought to "cleanse"
the Jewish religion and "restore" a "true" Jewish king. As one might expect, Jewish
leaders denounced the Jesus movement, just like they denounced all other such
political/religious movements. By the Sack of Jerusalem in 70 CE, this Jesus
movement consisting mainly of political Jews was well on its way to becoming a
mystery cult similar to many others in the Empire consisting mainly of non-Jews.
Jewish leaders therefore refused to acknowledge Christianity as Jewish. Stripped of
this protection, Christians were required to participate in the State Cult, which
most refused to do. This, in turn, prompted the persecution of Christians as
atheists and traitors. (Refusal to worship the State Gods of Rome meant you were
"without gods." Refusal to make offering to the Emperor-as-God was tantamount to
refusing to take an oath of loyalty to the Empire.) Many Christians saw these
persecutions as a direct result of Jewish leaders rejecting the "obvious" message
of Jesus, a sentiment found in the Gospels written about this time. This
anti-Semitism became a fundamental part of Christian doctrine, where it has
remained ever since. The tradition of "pork on Easter" has even been traced to the
early Middle Ages as a deliberate attempt to be anti-Jewish on the Christian
equivalent to Passover.
Gregory Gadow
> Gregory Gadow <tech...@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Elroy Willis wrote:
> >> Gregory Gadow <tech...@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> >>> Holy Saturday is traditionally a day of quiet reflection. In liturgical
> >>> churches, it is one of the only days in the sacred calendar when
> >>> communion is not given.
>
> >> I saw or read somewhere that Saturnday was a "day of quiet
> >> reflection" because people were afraid of the influence of Saturn,
> >> and believed that if they went outside on Saturnday, bad things might
> >> happen to them. Dunno if that's true or not...
>
> > I can't speak of Saturday's in general, but Holy Saturday marks the day that
> > Jesus laid in the tomb. During the Middle Ages, it was treated as a day of
> > general mourning, with festivities and public assemblies prohibited by law.
> > In monastaries, there was no mass, just the Daily Office.
>
> What do you make of the "halo" around Jesus' head in the following
> link from the vatican?
>
> http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/index_saints-blesseds_en.html
>
> Astrological symbols?
Too indistinct for me to see. Given that the icons are in the Byzantine style, I
expect that the symbols are Greek letters. You don't see astrological symbols in
religious art until well in to the Renaissance, and only in the West.
> Notice how Jesus has a four pack instead of a six pack. What's the
> fattest Jesus you've ever seen pinned to a cross?
Feh! Learn some art history :-P Until the Renaissance, realism was considered an
impediment to spiritual art.
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis wrote:
>> Gregory Gadow <tech...@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>>> Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>> It is "Holy Week", they seem to do this every year.
>>> Holy Week is the week between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday.
>>> Easter isn't until April 11 this year.
>> Easter is supposed, by some people, to be the first Sunday after the
>> first Venus/Friday after the first full moon, after the spring
>> equinox, if I remember correctly.
> The Sunday after the "liturgical full moon" on after (but never on)
> the "liturgical spring equinox."
Full moons are useful to measure months or some monthly cycle, but you
can't predict the weather by using full moons alone. When
a full moon occurs after the spring equinox, it's a pretty good
indicator of springtime. Not to mention that at that time of year,
things start getting greener and greener, as plants sprout, and many
animals give birth to their young, knowing that they'll be able to
feed them with the upcoming longer days and warmer weather.
> Back when of Easter was fixed in the 4th century, the date was considered
> too important to be left to local observation. The date of the full moon is
> figured according to a 19 year cycle rather than by actual observence. This
> was necessary, as you needed to know the date of Easter several months in
> advance in order to begin Lent on the correct day.
That makes sense.
> The upshot is that there are 19 possible dates for the "paschal full moon",
> with Easter on the Sunday that follows. (A chart is available at http://www.stormloader.com/ajy/easter.html)
> Western and Eastern Christendom both use the same calculation for figuring the
> date of Easter. The different dates between the Catholic/Protestant and Orthodox
> Easters comes from the fact that the Orthodox Churches still use the Julian
> Calendar for figuring liturgical dates. Since the equinox is figured by astronomy
> rather than a schedule, the Western and Eastern Easters are never off by more than
> a week.
The moon is moving away from earth, inch by inch, year by year,
century by century... Having some "fixed" calendar is only going to
cause problems, don't you think? Or doesn't it make any difference?
>> Easter, therefore, can never come before the spring equinox
>> itself, from what I can tell. This is true not only for Easter, but
>> also for Passover, right?
> Because of the way Easter is calculated, it is possible -- albeit very rare -- for
> Easter to fall on the Spring Equinox, depending on where on the planet you are.
> In most cases, Easter falls after the equinox.
Describe the cases where it might fall exactly on the spring equinox.
> There is a canon of the First Nicene Council which requires that Easter always
> fall *after* the Passover. This canon, however, is only found in the records of
> smaller churches considered "heretical" by both the Roman and Byzantine churches.
> None of the "accepted" churches recognizes this canon.
Doesn't the Jesus story require that Jesus was dead for three days?
How could Easter ever fall on a Friday? I thought Easter was the
celebration of Jesus rising from the grave, not the day of him dying
on the cross.
>> Anyone who claims that Christianity isn't based on the observations
>> or movement of heavenly objects such as the sun is screwed at this
>> point, don't you think?
> One can make that argument just by looking at the "seventh day." Counting
> the number of sunrises for liturgical purposes strikes me as an "observation
> of heavenly objects such as the sun."
>> The spring equinox happens around the 20th of March,
>> right? I've seen the 22nd used as well, and wonder exactly
>> how to tell which date is correct? Round it off, or take some
>> actual observations, eh?
> I honestly do not know.
I would hope you agree that it's possible to go out and actually take
some observations yourself, to determine it. It's supposed to be the
day that there are exactly 12 hours of light, and 12 hours of
darkness.
> Not quite.
In Jewish tradition, can Passover actually occur before the spring
equinox?
>> Enter Christianity, which is supposed to be based on the jewish
>> passover festival, and right off the bat, the holiday is a moving
>> one already.
> One of the earliest controversies of the Church was about when to celebrate
> the Resurrection.
> An early movement wanted it to fall on the 14th of Nisan, the first night of
> Passover.
Jesus resurrected on the same day he supposedly had a passover meal
with his disciples?
> When this controversy broke out about 150 CE, there was already
> a very strong anti-Semitism in the Church (see * below) and a majority of
> Christians wanted to celebrate the resurrection on a Sunday.
That's probably because sun worship was so popular already among
many people back then. Sol invictus, and the unconquered Sun, and
such..
> By the Nicene Council in 325, anti-Semitism had become institutionalized
> in both accepted Scripture and and religious custom. Constantine requested
> -- and, of course, received -- a method of figuring Easter not based on Passover.
> Since Jewish Christians had all but become extinct (or run to ground as "heretics"),
> the current calculation for Easter was accepted with almost no dissent. The canon
> from the Council that moved Easter to fall after Passover if the two dates coincided
> is apocryphal and is not a part of either the Catholic/Protestant or Orthodox
> traditions. Constantine's anti-Semitic diatribe at the end of the Council is, alas,
> part of historic fact.
What a mess... :-)
> * The root of Christian anti-Semitism is based in the considerable privilege that
> the Jewish people held as part of the Roman Empire. Jews were allowed to retain
> their distinct religious beliefs and customs without them being coopted in to the
> State Cult (as happened with many other religions from the provinces.) Even more
> important, they were exempt from participating in the State Cult.
> Christianity was, at first, a political/religious movement that sought to "cleanse"
> the Jewish religion and "restore" a "true" Jewish king. As one might expect, Jewish
> leaders denounced the Jesus movement, just like they denounced all other such
> political/religious movements. By the Sack of Jerusalem in 70 CE, this Jesus
> movement consisting mainly of political Jews was well on its way to becoming a
> mystery cult similar to many others in the Empire consisting mainly of non-Jews.
I'm interested in reading about the animal sacrifice situations that
were going on from around 50 BCE up until the sack of the temple
in 70 CE. Do you have any specific info or links about it?
It's clear that some priests were tired of having to deal with all the
blood and stench of what was apparently a glorified butcher shop,
especially around the time of passover.