Disproving Creation: A Gorilla Takes Another Step Towards Humanity?!

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 8, 2012, 4:51:05 PM9/8/12

to

Quigley learns to understand what it means that one day he will die
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/gorilla-taught-to-grasp-its-own-morality/
Of course, this is a spoof from The Onion, but my purpose here is to
highlight that the creationist claim that there is a huge gulf between
humans and the rest of the animal world is nothing but a desperate lie
because when we *seriously* study primates (and even non-primates for
that matter), we find no such gulf between us.

Koko the gorilla became famous for learning to talk using sign
language and also for keeping a pet cat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_%28gorilla%29

There are other primates who have also learned language:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanzi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim_Chimpsky
and even non-primates:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_%28parrot%29

Creationist can live in denial all they want but they cannot escape
the fact that the difference between humans and animals is one that
evolution has easily bridged, no creator required.

Budikka

Andrew

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 3:41:48 AM9/9/12

to

"Budikka666" <budi...@netscape.net> wrote in message news:fa2a271d-775a-403e...@l14g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...

Yet without a Creator, there would be no animals or humans
to begin with. We have a wonderful Creator who made us and
loves us. Humans are far superior to the animals that you cited.
We have dominion over them just as we have been told in the
Scriptures, as God has ordained it to be at the very Beginning.

Andrew

Jeanne Douglas

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 4:07:48 AM9/9/12

to

In article <76idnXySvehC2tHN...@earthlink.com>,

"Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net> wrote:

> "Budikka666" <budi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:fa2a271d-775a-403e...@l14g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
> > Quigley learns to understand what it means that one day he will die
> > http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/gorilla-taught-to-grasp-i
> > ts-own-morality/
> > Of course, this is a spoof from The Onion, but my purpose here is to
> > highlight that the creationist claim that there is a huge gulf between
> > humans and the rest of the animal world is nothing but a desperate lie
> > because when we *seriously* study primates (and even non-primates for
> > that matter), we find no such gulf between us.
> >
> > Koko the gorilla became famous for learning to talk using sign
> > language and also for keeping a pet cat:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_%28gorilla%29
> >
> > There are other primates who have also learned language:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanzi
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim_Chimpsky
> > and even non-primates:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_%28parrot%29
> >
> > Creationist can live in denial all they want but they cannot escape
> > the fact that the difference between humans and animals is one that
> > evolution has easily bridged, no creator required.
>
> Yet without a Creator, there would be no animals or humans
> to begin with.

Where's your evidence of this alleged creator. Without that evidence,
there's no reason to move any further in this discussion.

--
JD

"the lybian lier"

Andrew

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 4:15:23 AM9/9/12

to

"Jeanne Douglas" wrote in message news:hlwdjsd-4DE253...@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu...

The entire Universe.

> Without that evidence, there's no reason to move any further in this discussion.

Now that you have the evidence, you may proceed.

thomas p.

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 4:19:01 AM9/9/12

to

"Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net> skrev i meddelelsen
news:76idnXySvehC2tHN...@earthlink.com...

It is odd then that you have no evidence and have to tell so many silly lies
to support your assertions.

>
>
> Andrew
>

--
thomas p

Ignorance is the mother of devotion.

David Hume

Devils Advocaat

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 5:03:25 AM9/9/12

to

On Sep 9, 8:40 am, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote:
> "Budikka666" <budik...@netscape.net> wrote in messagenews:fa2a271d-775a-403e...@l14g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...

> > Quigley learns to understand what it means that one day he will die

> >http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/gorilla-taught-to-...

> > Of course, this is a spoof from The Onion, but my purpose here is to
> > highlight that the creationist claim that there is a huge gulf between
> > humans and the rest of the animal world is nothing but a desperate lie
> > because when we *seriously* study primates (and even non-primates for
> > that matter), we find no such gulf between us.
>
> > Koko the gorilla became famous for learning to talk using sign
> > language and also for keeping a pet cat:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_%28gorilla%29
>
> > There are other primates who have also learned language:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanzi
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim_Chimpsky
> > and even non-primates:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_%28parrot%29
>
> > Creationist can live in denial all they want but they cannot escape
> > the fact that the difference between humans and animals is one that
> > evolution has easily bridged, no creator required.
>
> Yet without a Creator, there would be no animals or humans
> to begin with. We have a wonderful Creator who made us and
> loves us. Humans are far superior to the animals that you cited.
> We have dominion over them just as we have been told in the
> Scriptures, as God has ordained it to be at the very Beginning.
>
> Andrew

If your god loves everyone, why is there so much suffering in the
world?

Jeanne Douglas

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 7:19:39 AM9/9/12

to

In article <bd-dnSViYtdU0tHN...@earthlink.com>,

How is that evidence?

> > Without that evidence, there's no reason to move any further in this
> > discussion.
>
> Now that you have the evidence, you may proceed.

You haven't explained how the "entire Universe" is evidence of your god.

Try again.

Hannele

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 9:00:09 AM9/9/12

to

The universe in evidence of the universe, that's all. Care to try again?

--
Hannele, A.A #2211

There are at least as many gods as there are believers.

Free Lunch

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 10:14:59 AM9/9/12

to

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 01:15:23 -0700, "Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net>
wrote in alt.talk.creationism:

A meaningless assertion. There's no apparent relationship between the
statements.

>
>> Without that evidence, there's no reason to move any further in this discussion.
>
>Now that you have the evidence, you may proceed.

But you haven't shown us that you have offered any evidence. You offered
an assertion.

thomas p.

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 11:30:43 AM9/9/12

to

"Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net> skrev i meddelelsen

news:bd-dnSViYtdU0tHN...@earthlink.com...

You are claiming that the existence of the universe is evidence that the
universe was created by a god. Don't you get dizzy with arguments like
that?

>
>>
>> --
>> JD
>>
>> "the lybian lier"
>
>

Father Haskell

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 11:32:18 AM9/9/12

to

On Sep 9, 3:40 am, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote:

> Yet without a Creator, there would be no animals or humans
> to begin with. We have a wonderful Creator who made us and
> loves us. Humans are far superior to the animals that you cited.
> We have dominion over them

You misspelled "are dependent."

> just as we have been told in the
> Scriptures, as God has ordained it to be at the very Beginning.

Holy books tell us lots of ridiculous things.

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 2:15:10 PM9/9/12

to

I see that once again you dishonestly change the thread title to
'Proving Creation' when you have again offered nothing whatsoever that
could be considered as contributing materially to your claim.

But please accept my congratulations in once again herding my fellow
atheists into accepting your title change and thereby subverting my
thread. It never fails to amuse me when other atheists in this group
fall into line so easily and allow creationists dictate the terms, but
ultimately it isn't that important because your dishonesty does you
far more damage than it ever could me.

I am sure you think that dishonesty pays you well, which is, I am
convinced, why you and your ilk indulge yourself in it so frequently
and so readily. But now it's time to pay the price.

There have been literally hundreds of items in the 'Disproving
Creation' series, and you, who claims he has an omnipotent god backing
him up, cannot offer even one "Proving creation" item that is backed
with solid science as mine so routinely are. I guarantee that you
will now prove this position.

All you can do, in stark admission of your impotence and your god's
utter failure (which I also guarantee you will demonstrate right
here), is to change the thread title and lie that you are making a
case towards proving your position, when your entire "proof" consists
of nothing more than effectively chanting "no it isn't".

How sad is that? How much more sad is it that you don't even have the
smarts to grasp how much damage you are doing to your position with
your cowardly and vacuous behavior?

Seriously, I would expect far better of someone who truly had a god
behind him, but thank you for so consistently making my case for me
and proving that you do not. Demonstrating creationist impotence and
vacuity is one of the purposes of this series and your and your ilk
are fulfilling it admirably.

I am as sure that you disagree with me as I am that you are, even now,
running from my global flood challenge in a separate thread where you
also led atheists down your twisted path, so let's build on that, and
settle this once and for all: Why don't we formally debate your proofs
of creation?

Here is what you said with my challenges:

> Yet without a Creator, there would be no animals or humans to begin with.

Please post *any* peer-reviewed scientific evidence which supports
this claim.

And yes, let me cut the legs off of your next cowardly excuse by once
again asserting that YES, IF YOU PROVIDE SUFFICIENT SOLID POSITIVE
SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR A CREATION OR FOR A CREATOR I WILL PUBLICALLY
SWITCH SIDES AND JOIN YOU. Got that now?

Now do you have any more cowardly excuses for running from me, or does
that cover them?

> We have a wonderful Creator who made us and loves us.

Please post *any* peer-reviewed scientific evidence which supports
this claim. When you fail with that, then please post any
*independent* *objective* evidence that there is a loving creator ans
be prepared to properly and hoenstly address my counter examples which
will rip your claim to shreds.

Because all you have done here is to make an unsupported statement of
faith - something which I've already demonstrated that *you*
personally lack, and no one is going to accept such a claim from a
proven liar like you.

> Humans are far superior to the animals that you cited.

Please post *any* peer-reviewed scientific evidence which supports
this claim, highlighting how they are superior, showign that this is a
qualitative, not a quantitative issue, demonstrating that this is
something which could not have been addressed by evolution, and how it
supports your claim for a creator.

Because all you have done here is to make an unsupported statement of
faith - something which I've already demonstrated that *you*
personally lack, and no one is going to accept such a claim from a
proven liar like you.

> We have dominion over them

Please define what you eman by this and then post *any* peer-reviewed
scientific evidence which supports this claim.

Because all you have done here is to make an unsupported statement of
faith - something which I've already demonstrated that *you*
personally lack, and no one is going to accept such a claim from a
proven liar like you.

> just as we have been told in the Scriptures, as God has ordained it to be at the very Beginning.

Please post *any* peer-reviewed scientific evidence which supports
this claim

Because all you have done here is to make an unsupported statement of
faith - something which I've already demonstrated that *you*
personally lack, and no one is going to accept such a claim from a
proven liar like you.

Your failure to support your claim unsupported blind faith claims
above will be your unconditional admission in these world-wide news
groups that YOU LIED when you changed the subject of this post to the
dishonest claim that you are "proving creation".

Any excuses you post *instead* of posting the requested evidence will
be your open and unconditional admission that you have no such
evidence, that you LIED, and that all you do have is lies, vacuity,
hypocrisy, dishonesty, fraud, and cowardice.

Budikka

Ralph

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 7:31:21 PM9/9/12

to

Evidence for this creator??

Ralph

unread,

Sep 9, 2012, 7:32:13 PM9/9/12

to

Nothing but your mindless assertions. I've news for you, Andrew, this
isn't evidence.

WangoTango

unread,

Sep 10, 2012, 2:43:20 PM9/10/12

to

In article <76idnXySvehC2tHN...@earthlink.com>,
andrew....@usa.net says...

Do you have any idea how tiring your repeating one baseless assertion
after another gets?

WangoTango

unread,

Sep 10, 2012, 2:44:10 PM9/10/12

to

In article <bd-dnSViYtdU0tHN...@earthlink.com>,
andrew....@usa.net says...

Is evidence of the universe, next?

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 10, 2012, 7:38:00 PM9/10/12

to

> Yet without a Creator, there would be no animals or humans to begin with.

Please post *any* peer-reviewed scientific evidence which supports
this claim.

And yes, let me cut the legs off of your next cowardly excuse by once
again asserting that YES, IF YOU PROVIDE SUFFICIENT SOLID POSITIVE
SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR A CREATION OR FOR A CREATOR I WILL PUBLICALLY
SWITCH SIDES AND JOIN YOU. Got that now?

Now do you have any more cowardly excuses for running from me, or does
that cover them?

> We have a wonderful Creator who made us and loves us.

Please post *any* peer-reviewed scientific evidence which supports
this claim. When you fail with that, then please post any
*independent* *objective* evidence that there is a loving creator ans
be prepared to properly and hoenstly address my counter examples which
will rip your claim to shreds.

Because all you have done here is to make an unsupported statement of
faith - something which I've already demonstrated that *you*
personally lack, and no one is going to accept such a claim from a
proven liar like you.

> Humans are far superior to the animals that you cited.

Please post *any* peer-reviewed scientific evidence which supports
this claim, highlighting how they are superior, showign that this is a
qualitative, not a quantitative issue, demonstrating that this is
something which could not have been addressed by evolution, and how it
supports your claim for a creator.

Because all you have done here is to make an unsupported statement of
faith - something which I've already demonstrated that *you*
personally lack, and no one is going to accept such a claim from a
proven liar like you.

> We have dominion over them

Please define what you eman by this and then post *any* peer-reviewed
scientific evidence which supports this claim.

Because all you have done here is to make an unsupported statement of
faith - something which I've already demonstrated that *you*
personally lack, and no one is going to accept such a claim from a
proven liar like you.

> just as we have been told in the Scriptures, as God has ordained it to be at the very Beginning.

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 11, 2012, 4:58:25 PM9/11/12

to

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 13, 2012, 4:46:25 PM9/13/12

to

https://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/ef8eb81b42941cee?hl=en

Budikka

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 14, 2012, 12:15:28 PM9/14/12

to

Given the chance to present scientific evidence in support of many
wild claims he had made, Creationist Coward-For-Christ™ Andrew-a-Blank
openly admitted that he could not support his LIES by turning tail and
running like the rank coward that he is, thereby proving that he has
ZERO FAITH in his worthless and fictitious god. If there were an
omnipotent creator god, and this loser actually *had* any faith, he
would have trusted that god to support him and he would have taken me
up on my debate offer.

So now you know the truth about Andrew-a-Blank - even *he* does not
truly believe in this god he espouses!

End of story.

Budikka

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 15, 2012, 7:06:19 PM9/15/12

to

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 16, 2012, 9:51:22 AM9/16/12

to

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 18, 2012, 5:01:36 PM9/18/12

to

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 21, 2012, 11:00:43 PM9/21/12

to

Budikka666

unread,

Sep 24, 2012, 5:11:04 PM9/24/12

to

Coward-For-Christ™ Andrew-a-Blank Ran from challenges in SIX THREADS
simultaneously:
http://tinyurl.com/8cpp6ru
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/e8da88e...
Given the chance to stand up for his god and formally debate the
authenticity of the "Shroud of Turin", Creationist Coward-For-Christ™

Andrew-a-Blank openly admitted that he could not support his LIES by
turning tail and running like the rank coward that he is, thereby
proving that he has ZERO FAITH in his worthless and fictitious god.
If there were an omnipotent creator god, and this loser actually *had*
any faith, he would have trusted that god to support him and he would
have taken me up on my debate offer.

http://tinyurl.com/9rm86aj
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/245ef4c4...
Given the chance to stand up for his god and formally debate the
existence of Jesus Christ, miracle-working son of a god, Creationist

Coward-For-Christ™ Andrew-a-Blank openly admitted that he could not
support his LIES by turning
tail and running like the rank coward that he is, thereby proving that
he has ZERO FAITH in his worthless and fictitious god. If there were
an omnipotent creator god, and this loser actually *had* any faith, he
would have trusted that god to support him and he would have taken me
up on my debate offer.

http://tinyurl.com/8o3wsmg
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/ec1a8427...
Given the chance to stand up for his god and formally debate the
Noahic flood, Creationist Coward-For-Christ™ Andrew-a-Blank openly

admitted that he could not support his LIES by turning tail and
running like the rank coward that he is, thereby proving that he has
ZERO FAITH in his worthless and fictitious god. If there were an
omnipotent creator god, and this loser actually *had* any faith, he
would have trusted that god to support him and he would have taken me
up on my debate offer.

http://tinyurl.com/9hpgy2v
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/db798efe...
Given the chance to stand up for his god and present scientific

evidence in support of many wild claims he had made, Creationist
Coward-For-Christ™ Andrew-a-Blank openly admitted that he could not
support his LIES by turning tail and running like the rank coward that
he is, thereby proving that he has ZERO FAITH in his worthless and
fictitious god. If there were an omnipotent creator god, and this
loser actually *had* any faith, he would have trusted that god to
support him and he would have taken me up on my debate offer.

http://tinyurl.com/986crjk
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/fb677165...
Given the chance to stand up for his god and formally debate ENCODE's
latest data, Creationist Coward-For-Christ™ Andrew-a-Blank openly

admitted that he could not support his LIES by turning tail and
running like the rank coward that he is, thereby proving that he has
ZERO FAITH in his worthless and fictitious god. If there were an
omnipotent creator god, and this loser actually *had* any faith, he
would have trusted that god to support him and he would have taken me
up on my debate offer.

http://tinyurl.com/ckeaadm
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/c786b453...
Given the chance to stand up for his god and formally debate his 8
unsupported claims about information, Creationist Coward-For-Christ™

Andrew-a-Blank openly admitted that he could not support his LIES by
turning tail and running like the rank coward that he is, thereby
proving that he has ZERO FAITH in his worthless and fictitious god.
If there were an omnipotent creator god, and this loser actually *had*
any faith, he would have trusted that god to support him and he would
have taken me up on my debate offer.
So now you know the truth about Andrew-a-Blank - even *he* does not
truly believe in this god he espouses!
End of story.

Coward-For-Christ™ Andrew-a-Blank Ran from a simple question in

*another* SIX THREADS simultaneously:

http://tinyurl.com/7zghp7o
http://tinyurl.com/76a8chm
http://tinyurl.com/6q3q498
http://tinyurl.com/6n2swsr
http://tinyurl.com/7rvtlyu
http://tinyurl.com/7x4m3fv

Coward-For-Christ™ Andrew-a-Blank Ran from a debate on DNA in *yet
another* TEN THREADS simultaneously:

https://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/e8da88e...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/245ef4c4...

End of story.

End of Andrew-a-Blank's pathetic little fake god.

Budikka