On Tue, 05 Feb 2013 01:28:25 +0000
Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Feb 2013 01:00:35 +0000, ernobe wrote:
>
> >> "That only shows the limits of atheism," my colleague replied.
> >> "It's all about nonbelief and has nothing to offer when people are
> >> suffering"
> >>
> >>
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/opinion/sunday/the-blessings-of-atheism.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> >
> > What your colleague is trying to say is that if there is no ulterior
> > reality, the whole basis of the golden rule (do unto others as you
> > would have them do to you) looses credibility.
>
> How does that happen?
Do you want criminal psychopath Charles Manson to be treated as you? Do
you want others who like to be treated a certain way by a dominatrix to
treat you in that manner also? Those are the credibility issues that I
suspect ernobe was referring to.
If I had created the famous Golden Rule, I would have worded it
slightly differently:
* "Intend to treat others as they wish to be treated."
First of all, the word "intend" provides a built-in exit strategy, for
there may be a reason why one's intentions cannot be satisfied (legal,
moral, ethical, physical, etc., restraints).
Secondly, treating people how they wish to be treated is, by nature,
accomodating and potentially more consistent with providing compassion.
> > Without it, you may try to help others, but since there is no ideal
> > reality to which your efforts are measured up to, there is no sense
> > in measuring them.
>
> What 'ideal reality' is that? AFAICT, there's only one reality and
> it's far from ideal. Calling your supposed god(s) 'ideal reality' or
> 'ulterior reality' doesn't make them any more real. Only evidence
> will do that. Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
If you change "will" to "can" then I'll agree.
> > By forcing yourself to be content with "feedback" from whomever it
> > is you're trying to help, you end up not really understanding their
> > condition or needs.
>
> Neither do theists. They only *believe* they're really understanding
> their condition or needs.
I agree.
--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
"If anything, an atheist has to be more morally responsible precisely
because we don't blame a god for our own actions."
-- Ivan Ratoyevsky