Finding dark matter

46erjoe

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Jun 18, 2006, 4:48:15 PM6/18/06

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Is it possible that all that elusive dark matter is just ordinary
matter not being illuminated? From the many planetary systems that
have formed in the galaxies, surely a large portion of the matter has
been lost into the interstellar spaces by slingshot effects of the
larger planets that stayed secure in the system. Could there be
billions of small black holes lurking in the darkness? Could our
galaxy be filled with more rogue planets and planetessimals than ones
attached by gravity to stars?

Related question: Supposedly when a Mars sized object struck earth and
ultimately caused our moon to be formed, it also tilted our planet on
its axis. What tilted the other planets on their axes? Mars is tilted
nearly as much as ours, I think. And how the heck did Nepture get
flipped almost 90 degrees to the plane of the ecliptic?

Phineas T Puddleduck

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Jun 18, 2006, 4:53:07 PM6/18/06

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In article <7feb92pc2kubuagso...@4ax.com>, 46erjoe
<some...@spamless.net> wrote:

> Is it possible that all that elusive dark matter is just ordinary
> matter not being illuminated? From the many planetary systems that
> have formed in the galaxies, surely a large portion of the matter has
> been lost into the interstellar spaces by slingshot effects of the
> larger planets that stayed secure in the system. Could there be
> billions of small black holes lurking in the darkness? Could our
> galaxy be filled with more rogue planets and planetessimals than ones
> attached by gravity to stars?

Some may be normal matter (baryonic) but the behaviour of galaxies
(such as the local group and the Great Attractor) together with the
flat rotation curves of galaxies suggest it isnt' Normal matter would
radiate (even in IR) and the fact is we cannot see it.

>
> Related question: Supposedly when a Mars sized object struck earth and
> ultimately caused our moon to be formed, it also tilted our planet on
> its axis. What tilted the other planets on their axes? Mars is tilted
> nearly as much as ours, I think. And how the heck did Nepture get
> flipped almost 90 degrees to the plane of the ecliptic?

Possibly another impact. The early solar system was a pretty tumultous
place.

--
The greatest enemy of science is pseudoscience.

Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orangey jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson why
parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.

Official emperor of sci.physics. Please pay no attention to my butt poking
forward, it is expanding.

Relf's Law?
"Bullshit repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."

Phineas T Puddleduck

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Jun 18, 2006, 5:04:22 PM6/18/06

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In article <7feb92pc2kubuagso...@4ax.com>, 46erjoe
<some...@spamless.net> wrote:

Joe

Whats your maths like? I ask because MIT's Open Courseware has some
excellent astronomy and cosmology stuff you'd find fascinating - plus
any of Brian Greene's books...

46erjoe

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Jun 19, 2006, 6:27:08 PM6/19/06

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I've loved astronomy from childhood. Built my own 6" reflector in 1962
at age 12. Ultimately however, I became a clergyman -- still heavenly
minded ;-) -- but continued an avid interest in astronomy. I read
voraciously now that I am on full disability, especially in the
interplay between science and religion. Just finished reading "Where
Is Everybody" by Stephen Webb and "Rare Earth" by Peter Ward / Donald
Brownlee, both in almost one sitting. John Polkinghorne
(http://www.polkinghorne.org/ is my hero. I'll check out Green's
books, but more academics is not my cup of tea right now - I'm
terminally ill (aren't we all?) so I surf the web and watch the
science channel to keep me informed. Thanks for your personal touch.

Best regards,

Joe

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:04:22 +0100, Phineas T Puddleduck
<phineasp...@googlemail.com_NOSPAM> wrotF:

Phineas T Puddleduck

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Jun 19, 2006, 6:41:42 PM6/19/06

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In article <dk8e9295gqlcb9bbu...@4ax.com>, 46erjoe
<some...@spamless.net> wrote:

> I've loved astronomy from childhood. Built my own 6" reflector in 1962
> at age 12. Ultimately however, I became a clergyman -- still heavenly
> minded ;-) -- but continued an avid interest in astronomy. I read
> voraciously now that I am on full disability, especially in the
> interplay between science and religion. Just finished reading "Where
> Is Everybody" by Stephen Webb and "Rare Earth" by Peter Ward / Donald
> Brownlee, both in almost one sitting. John Polkinghorne
> (http://www.polkinghorne.org/ is my hero. I'll check out Green's
> books, but more academics is not my cup of tea right now - I'm
> terminally ill (aren't we all?) so I surf the web and watch the
> science channel to keep me informed. Thanks for your personal touch.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Joe

No problem Joe. Its an absolute pleasure to talk civilly with like
minded people, and you will be in my prayers (for what they are worth).
I'm a mature student doing his Astophysics Masters in my 30's, going
back to what I love most - learning.

However, back to astronomy ;-)

Brian Greene's books are very light on the math, and he makes a point
of warning you when sections need it - and then provides a precis of it
so you can skip it and still understand what is going on. Well worth
it.
Also you can watch the PBS televised series for the book "Elegant
Universe" at PBS -> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

You can watch it on line - its wonderfully light yet full of wonder,
reminding me of when I watched Cosmos as a young kid when it first come
out. I saw the world in a new way after that.

As an agnostic/theist (as in I believe in some greater presence, just
no organised religion holds sway over me yet) I find cosmology
fascinating. A very dear friend of mine, an astronomy professor, passed
on several years ago and he always joked that all he wanted from heaven
was a blackboard, and the chance to ask God a few questions about some
equations.... Sounds good to me, I don't presume to know the mind of
God, but I'd love to see some of his rough workings out ;-)

Double-A

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Jun 19, 2006, 7:50:46 PM6/19/06

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46erjoe wrote:
> Is it possible that all that elusive dark matter is just ordinary
> matter not being illuminated? From the many planetary systems that
> have formed in the galaxies, surely a large portion of the matter has
> been lost into the interstellar spaces by slingshot effects of the
> larger planets that stayed secure in the system. Could there be
> billions of small black holes lurking in the darkness? Could our
> galaxy be filled with more rogue planets and planetessimals than ones
> attached by gravity to stars?

Sure it could. But it's not as fun for the theoretical astrophysicists
to talk about as exotic particles of some kind. Doesn't sell as many
books.

> Related question: Supposedly when a Mars sized object struck earth and
> ultimately caused our moon to be formed, it also tilted our planet on
> its axis. What tilted the other planets on their axes? Mars is tilted
> nearly as much as ours, I think. And how the heck did Nepture get
> flipped almost 90 degrees to the plane of the ecliptic?

I think you mean Uranus.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/

That's a good question.

Double-A

Phineas T Puddleduck

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Jun 19, 2006, 7:53:57 PM6/19/06

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In article <1150761046.9...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Double-A <doub...@hush.ai> wrote:

>
>
> Sure it could. But it's not as fun for the theoretical astrophysicists
> to talk about as exotic particles of some kind. Doesn't sell as many
> books.

There's issues with galactic rotation curves that cannot be explained
easily by existing mass. Its not quite just for the books ...

46erjoe

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Jun 20, 2006, 2:42:01 PM6/20/06

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On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:41:42 +0100, Phineas T Puddleduck
<phineasp...@googlemail.com_NOSPAM> wrotF:

>In article <dk8e9295gqlcb9bbu...@4ax.com>, 46erjoe

I watched the program and was impressed by how effective the producers
were in bringing difficult concepts to the level of the average
person. But I was not impressed by the concepts themselves. String
theory has the smell of desperation about it. And, as the program
itself notes, unless it is provable, it must remain philosophy rather
than science.

Okay, so the strings are vibrating "strings" of energy. If true this
may explain how certain kinds of matter-events can exist-occur, but it
says nothing about what strings precisely are. What KIND of "energy"?
How is that energy propagated? What keeps it intact within the string?
What are the forces that make it be one kind of particle as opposed to
another.

It just seems that no matter what theory is proposed, we are
continually driven back to something that precedes it, ad infinitum.
Eg, gravity. Okay, gravity is not a force, rather a warp in
space-time. Again, what is this "warp" how is it propogated, how
exactly does mass affect this warp, etc etc.

Message has been deleted

G=EMC^2 Glazier

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Jun 20, 2006, 6:43:23 PM6/20/06

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46erjoe The energy of strings is vibration. (vibrations motion) They
must I would think come in different lengths and number of vibrations.
to create a sub-microscopic particle. Strings can be wound up,
Winding gives the strings energy,and this energy is proportional to the
product of the radius" number of winds. Kind of like joe more windings
of a wire make for a stronger electro-magnet. Best also joe to keep in
mind we use 6 billion vibrations a second to tell time with. I'm also
talking about vibrations that fit easily inside a Planck length.
Let me put this thinking together (having my problems) just trying to
spell it out(thoughts to words) Strings identities are energy
calculated from their its vibration number,its windings,and its
radius.(I read this 15 years ago or more) joe here you see
some easy math in the string theory. In this quantum world energy is
relative to "Planck energy" Your quartz watch shows how nature made
uniform vibrational motion,and in strings the vibrational motion is
billions of times more uniform(than quartz). The micro realm beats to a
perfect drummer. That is the reason no hydrogen atom has ever been
shown to decay. Its vibrations can last forever. Right now I'm
trying to tie string theory into my own "Spin is in theory" Bert

46erjoe

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Jun 20, 2006, 8:18:10 PM6/20/06

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On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:45:39 +0100, Phineas T Puddleduck
<phineasp...@googlemail.com_NOSPAM> wrotF:

>In article <sjfg92h7b6uknfvi7...@4ax.com>, 46erjoe

><some...@spamless.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I watched the program and was impressed by how effective the producers
>> were in bringing difficult concepts to the level of the average
>> person. But I was not impressed by the concepts themselves. String
>> theory has the smell of desperation about it. And, as the program
>> itself notes, unless it is provable, it must remain philosophy rather
>> than science.
>>

>The books do a lot better job of explaining some of your questions Joe.

>
>> Okay, so the strings are vibrating "strings" of energy. If true this
>> may explain how certain kinds of matter-events can exist-occur, but it
>> says nothing about what strings precisely are. What KIND of "energy"?
>> How is that energy propagated? What keeps it intact within the string?
>> What are the forces that make it be one kind of particle as opposed to
>> another.
>

>Just pure energy, as I see it Joe. I like string theory for one reason
>- there is an elegance to it. The booxs explain that a lot better, but
>the theory (after you strip away some of the math) have a nice elegant
>symmetry to them.

>
>>
>> It just seems that no matter what theory is proposed, we are
>> continually driven back to something that precedes it, ad infinitum.
>> Eg, gravity. Okay, gravity is not a force, rather a warp in
>> space-time. Again, what is this "warp" how is it propogated, how
>> exactly does mass affect this warp, etc etc.
>

>The beauty of Science Joe - always one more question. Keeps us on our
>toes ;-)

"Elegant symmetry" sounds more artsy than science unless by elegant is
meant mathematically non-anomalous in which case quantum physics is
anything but symmetric.

Okay. I'm finished yapping about things I know little about. Time to
read some of Green's books.

Message has been deleted

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Art Deco

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Jun 21, 2006, 9:12:43 AM6/21/06

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On 21 Jun 2006 04:53:42 -0700, "Michael Baldwin, Bruce"
<mb...@mighty.co.za> wrote:

Ploink!

Art Deco

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Jun 21, 2006, 9:13:21 AM6/21/06

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What's the weather like in ne these days? Where the fuck is ne
anyways?

Double-A

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Jun 21, 2006, 10:46:49 AM6/21/06

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Say Art,

How come you're such a nice guy, when your pals Carl and Bruce are such
jerks?

Double-A

Art Deco

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Jun 21, 2006, 11:08:08 AM6/21/06

to

It's genetic, Double-Anus. Like, in your case, having two anuses!

Bill E Goat

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Jun 21, 2006, 2:42:46 PM6/21/06

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> Art Deco said in ne.weather:

No way to tell, especially with the Unifoamer making inaccurate
forecasts...

> Where the fuck is ne anyways?

New Emporium, PA?

ah

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Jun 21, 2006, 6:25:53 PM6/21/06

to

If you had friends, you'd spend a lot less time talking to yourself.
--
ah

Wombat

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Jun 21, 2006, 8:21:57 PM6/21/06

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Remember when Foamboi was turning into a duck? Those were the good old days.
He laid on a decent foamdown back then, and he still had the strength to put
out a complete lits of all the brave heroes that accused him of
death-threats, felicide, and caprimulgy. Now, since he lost the war, it's
just little pathetic spurts of foam, not even as much as he gets from the
goat. And the litseses are downright puny.

I with he'd turn into a duck again.

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jun 21, 2006, 8:28:44 PM6/21/06

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No wonder he's so full of shit.

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jun 21, 2006, 8:30:40 PM6/21/06

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Wombat wrote:
> Remember when Foamboi was turning into a duck? Those were the good old days.

He turned me into a newt!

> He laid on a decent foamdown back then, and he still had the strength to put
> out a complete lits of all the brave heroes that accused him of
> death-threats, felicide, and caprimulgy. Now, since he lost the war, it's
> just little pathetic spurts of foam, not even as much as he gets from the
> goat. And the litseses are downright puny.
>
> I with he'd turn into a duck again.

He better not turn me into a newt again.

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jun 21, 2006, 8:44:10 PM6/21/06

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Carl Osterwald AKA Art Deco wrote:

What about that Triangle place where pedo creep Gary gLitter Burnore
lives? I hear its a cunt of a place.

unread,

Jun 21, 2006, 11:48:08 PM6/21/06

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On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:42:46 -0400, Bill E Goat
<bill....@joseph-bartlo.net> wrote:

>> Art Deco said in ne.weather:
>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:34 -0400, Bill E Goat
>> <bill....@joseph-bartlo.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> Michael Baldwin, Bruce said in ne.weather:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Quack!
>> >> >
>> >> > That's like water off a duck's ass, Bruce.
>> >>
>> >> Pig's arse it is, Carl.
>> >
>> >Careful, there poasting this to ne.weather. You might make Foamboi
>> >horny.
>>
>> What's the weather like in ne these days?
>
>No way to tell, especially with the Unifoamer making inaccurate
>forecasts...

Looking out the window sometimes works over here.

>> Where the fuck is ne anyways?
>
>New Emporium, PA?

Could be!

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jun 22, 2006, 3:22:42 AM6/22/06

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Michael Baldwin, Bruce <mb...@mighty.co.za> wrote:

> Screaming hot-back with nasty cum dumpster and minuscule tattlers
> wants cruddy whang bone for reprehensible carnal gymnastics. Mail me
> at <mb...@mighty.co.za>

Art Deco

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Jun 22, 2006, 3:52:34 AM6/22/06

to

On 22 Jun 2006 00:06:44 -0700, "Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote:

>
>All over my car, Bruce!

You have a car, Double-Anus?
With "special" seats?

Double-A

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Jun 22, 2006, 4:19:02 AM6/22/06

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You never could tell your bearings from your balls, could you Bruce?

Double-A

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jun 22, 2006, 4:48:08 AM6/22/06

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Here pussy!

Message has been deleted

Art Deco

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Saul Levy

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Jun 24, 2006, 10:13:33 PM6/24/06

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How about the dark matter between your ears, BEERTbrain?

Saul Levy

Art Deco

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Jun 25, 2006, 12:29:44 AM6/25/06

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Not as much of an inkling as you do, a-hole.

Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)

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Jun 25, 2006, 12:14:42 PM6/25/06

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On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:15:17 -0400, ah <splif...@gmail.com> wrote

in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<449d66f4$0$549$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com>:

> >>What does this have to do with low testosterone counts, Bruce?
> >
> > Isn't that what soc.men is all about, a-hole?
>
> Is that the forum in which to teach others to suck eggs, Bruce?

Teaching the soc.froots to suck eggs would be like teaching Lance
Armstrong to ride a bicycle.
--
V.G.

"i would blame them it they went on a holy jhiad and killed off all the infidels, would you?"
- AssLexa's "200+" alien-implanted IQ jumps the rails and crashes into a grade school, killing all inside.

Change pobox dot alaska to gci.

Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.

G=EMC^2 Glazier

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Jun 25, 2006, 2:48:11 PM6/25/06

to

Saul Not dark but grey matter is between most of humankind ears. In your
case its brown. You have not enough wit to know why brown? So I'll tell
you. Your brain is made up of two turds and the membrane that separates
them is toilet paper. Your long nose made you think you were smelling
shit coming up from your ass hole,but reality is the smell is coming
from in back of your nose. That is why you are known as a shit head. If
your ears get clogged up while reading this hold your nose and blow real
hard,and don't forget to flush after. Best you stick you head in the
toilet before pulling the chain. I relate your brown brain with a septic
tank. Both are full of shit. At this moment Saul you are thinking of a
good come back,but why waste your time. A shit brain has no wit Bert

Saul Levy

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Jun 25, 2006, 3:57:08 PM6/25/06

to

Now you're getting vicious, BEERTbrain! Better check your meds! For
such a "genius" you sure are out of control!

Saul Levy

G=EMC^2 Glazier

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Jun 25, 2006, 4:51:37 PM6/25/06

to

Saul A witless come back. It only shows even after racking you brown
brain how little you can do. You are a witless wonder When the
universe created man so it could see itself. it left you behind a black
hole's event horizon.. Bert

ah

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Jun 25, 2006, 8:22:57 PM6/25/06

to

Capitulation noted, Bruce.
--
ah

ah

unread,

Saul Levy

G=EMC^2 Glazier

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Jun 26, 2006, 8:11:30 PM6/26/06

to

Saul All babies are born blind. It was your Rabbi that needed glasses
Reality is in your case he needed a magnifying glass. Bert

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jun 27, 2006, 5:47:45 AM6/27/06

to

The obvious what, ah?

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jun 27, 2006, 6:21:17 AM6/27/06

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Michael Baldwin, Bruce <mb...@mighty.co.za> wrote:

> Obese hosebag with skin-headed bulldog's lip and ruined shebas begs
> for vile root of all evil for demoniac dancing on the mattress. Mail
> me at <mb...@mighty.co.za>

Saul Levy

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Jun 28, 2006, 2:57:47 PM6/28/06

to

Well, the foreskin is rather small in a baby, BEERTbrain! But the
rabbis I've seen didn't use any special optical aid!

What a lame reply that was... Can't a genius like you do better than
that? Just shows that you aren't very bright after all!

Saul Levy

G=EMC^2 Glazier

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Jun 29, 2006, 2:53:51 PM6/29/06

to

Saul someday the fore-skin will be saved frozen and find great uses
after the baby has grown to man. Think about it. Never throw a
Fore-skin away it could be a life saver. Beert

Double-A

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Jun 29, 2006, 4:59:07 PM6/29/06

to

Did you hear about the guy who was collecting foreskins?

He wanted to make a wallet that would turn into an attache case when he
rubbed it!

Double-A

ah

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Jul 2, 2006, 3:19:39 PM7/2/06

to

Lack of introspection noted.
--
ah

G=EMC^2 Glazier

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Jul 2, 2006, 3:53:26 PM7/2/06

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Double-A liked that foreskin joke(still laughing) Collecting Saul's
size foreskins,and even after rubbing them would not make a dime change
pouch(Sad but true) However they are Kosher,and a souse ear is not
Go figure Bert

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jul 2, 2006, 8:05:12 PM7/2/06

to

Navel gazing obsession noted.

Saul Levy

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Jul 4, 2006, 7:12:42 PM7/4/06

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I didn't see you back then, BEERTbrain! Go collect those somewhere
else!

Saul Levy

ah

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Jul 9, 2006, 3:34:54 AM7/9/06

to

God-like Third Eye fantasy noted.
--
ah

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jul 9, 2006, 6:17:13 AM7/9/06

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Blow it out your 'gotcx', ah thole.

honestjohn

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Jul 9, 2006, 4:12:10 PM7/9/06

to

"Michael Baldwin, Bruce" <mb...@mighty.co.za> wrote in message
news:1152440233.6...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Are you two, brothers?

ah

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Jul 10, 2006, 7:03:09 PM7/10/06

to

Shuttup.
--
ah

ah

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Jul 10, 2006, 7:03:34 PM7/10/06

to

Anal-fixation noted, Bruce.
--
ah

honestjohn

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Jul 10, 2006, 8:26:46 PM7/10/06

to

"ah" <splif...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:44b2d0b2$0$15906$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com...

I knew it!

Michael Baldwin, Bruce

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Jul 10, 2006, 10:00:43 PM7/10/06

to

Yes, I've already noted you have an anal fixation, ah lexa. And yours
is almost as bad as Dickless'.

ah

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Jul 18, 2006, 5:34:58 PM7/18/06

to

IKYABWAI's again, Bruce?
--
ah

tho...@antispam.ham

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Jul 18, 2006, 5:36:37 PM7/18/06

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ah writes:

> Michael Baldwin, Bruce wrote:

>> God-like Third Eye fantasy noted.

> Blow it out your 'gotcx', ah thole.

Who is "ah thole", ah? Suffering from attribution problems?

Double-A

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Jul 18, 2006, 6:12:48 PM7/18/06

to

Thanks for posting to alt.astronomy, Dr. Tholen.

Double-A