Depression/Suicide indicators
LdyNRed
I'm interested in knowing what indicators, if any, there are in
my natal, progressed charts or transits that might relate to
the depression I've experienced since well before Christmas
and continuing to the present, with suicidal thoughts, most strong
around May and June of this year. Birth info: June 17, 1954
at 6 a.m. (birth certificate time), Hartford, KY (long. 86 degrees 55 minutes w,
lat. 37 degrees 27 minutes n)
Stella
LdyNRed wrote:
Hi,
Before I begin to discuss astrology I really must insist that any depression or
suicidal tendencies should be investigated by your doctor. As a sufferer of
Seasonal Affective Disorder and having experienced a very good friend of mine
killing himself shortly after his 18th birthday, I cannot express enough the
importance that you receive some sort of treatment. Please, please make this your
first priority. Astrology should be a guide to self-help, not a determination of
your fate.
Astrologically, I would not consider myself anywhere near competent enough to study
your chart to give you advice. I have no qualifications in psychology, and you
should also be wary of those who say they have, without proper evidence.
I have a book however, which addresses suicide in astrology called, "The Forces of
Destiny" by Penny Thornton. In it she is actually arguing the astrologer's case for
reincarnation, but within her research she studied the charts of suicide victims.
She mentions Charles Carter's, "An Encyclopaedia of Psychological Astrology"
(Theosophical Publishing House, 1972). Carter names Uranus as the 'principle
afflictor' in cases of suicide and cites Jupiter's presence in Saturn signs or in
aspect to Saturn as an indication of suicidal tendencies. He also states that 'The
commonest zodiacal areas are about 15 degrees of the cardinal signs (often tenanted
also in the natal charts of murdered people irrespective of suicide), about 25
degrees of the fixed signs, a notably violent area in many respects, and about 26
degrees of the mutable signs.' Penny Thorton also notes Mars in the same sign as
the Sun (self destruction and aggressive qualities - conjunction). Venus and
Mercury in Pisces infer a tendency toward melancholia and despair, and a
Moon-Uranus-Neptune configuration indicates a basic emotional instability. She also
says that a period of depression and confusion can be indicated by discordant
aspects between transiting Neptune to natal Sun, and transiting Saturn to natal
Neptune.
Natal signs of depression can be discordant aspects between the Sun or Moon with
Saturn.
I have not studied this area of astrology and do not know what to think of it, but
you may find it interesting. However, it is important to remember there are many
causes of depression so I do not think there are any true astrological signatures.
From personal experience I think the sort of inward thinking involved in studying
your chart for such indications, are not conducive to the healing process. It may
be more advisable for you to concentrate on the more optimistic areas of your chart,
and maybe study the potential darker areas, when this depressive phase has
completely passed.
I hope this has been of some help to you, and please have courage for this terrible
time will pass, and the sun will once again shine down on you.
Sending love to you,
Stella.
--
'I wish that they'd swoop down in a country lane,
Late at night when I'm driving.
Take me on board their beautiful ship,
Show me the world as I'd love to see it.
I'd tell all my friends but they'd never believe me,
They'd think that I'd finally lost it completely,
I'd show them the stars and the meaning of life.
They'd shut me away.'
Radiohead, 1997.
Tom Sawyer
>I hope this has been of some help to you, and please have courage for this
>terrible time will pass, and the sun will once again shine down on you.
>Sending love to you,
Damn fine job there.
#mxr /* No qualifications maybe, but you got talent kiddo. */
--
| L'audace! Toujours l'audace! moc.gnirpsdnim@rimim=xam 6 |
| Henceforthandforthwithlyyourfoundingducksdidoscillatecheesily |
| "We're cooked, but Vive l'Empereur all the same." |
David
Nice post, full of information. I looked at my father's chart and notice
he had "mars" in 14° Cancer in the 11th house involved in a grand
cross. He was sitting on a bench waiting for a bus when a car jumped the
curb and killed him 38 years ago.If you consider the nature of "mars"
and the "11th" and the "grand cross" combined with what you indicated I
think you'd have to consider this a "hit".
Dave
"Not that there's anything wrong with that"
David
Found another chart, this one a suicide where a 27 year old girl jumped
from a building 13 years ago. She had the sun and mercury in 29°
Pisces opposing "jupiter" at 27° Virgo but most directly had "moon" at
25° Scorpio in the "11th" house square pluto in 29° Leo in the
"8th".I was amazed a couple of days later when I noticed the converhence
of planetary activity the night she died. Just wish I would have looked
at it before hand.Anyway, that "moon" at 25° Scorpio fits right into
what you quoted.
David
I feel sorry for you if you cannot see the uplifting compassion in what
Ann said to this poor woman who is going through such a rough time. It
made me feel lax for getting so involved in data that I forgot about the
original poster.You mention so much about her right to suggest
"medicine" but say nothing about the rest of the post. Part of working
with "astrology" involves acknowledging the universal connection with
everyone and, when this is done properly as it was in Ann's post, it
brings a quality of reassurance to another which anyone would want if
and when they are hurting, including you, so why not just try being a
little nicer.
It's not so bad to goof around and maybe you are right about the
"medical" responce, though that is far from proven, but sometimes we are
trying to be human around here and deserve a little space to do
that.Thanks for sharing.
ann_sh...@my-dejanews.com
caro...@muhlon.com (LdyNRed) wrote:
>
> I'm interested in knowing what indicators, if any, there are in
> my natal, progressed charts or transits that might relate to
> the depression I've experienced since well before Christmas
> and continuing to the present, with suicidal thoughts, most strong
> around May and June of this year. Birth info: June 17, 1954
> at 6 a.m. (birth certificate time), Hartford, KY (long. 86 degrees 55 minutes
w,
> lat. 37 degrees 27 minutes n)
Carolyn,
I have not run your full chart but have done a quick look at your natal
planetary placements. I agree with one of the prior posters that during this
time you may find the need for medical assistance. That said, a medical
response is going to be some type of drug therapy and that can often
exascerbate the problem. However, you must follow your instincts and you
will find the assistance that you need at this time.
You are going through one of the toughest transits there is, IMO -- traniting
Neptune squaring your natal Saturn(in Scorpio)/Venus (in late Cancer) square.
All the natural underpinings of your life are dissolving right before your
eyes. There seems to be no place that safe, secure from doubt. THIS IS
TEMPORARY! It is a transit and it will PASS. It will be over but you must
persevere and know that it is temporary. You have Saturn in Scorpio and
there is an innate love affair with death -- it is so much easier, the
knowledge is so appealing, the transcendance apparently so complete -- and
yet, there is a part which is a survivor of the journey to the depths and
KNOWS it must hang on, and not give in to the easy path. It is time that you
must choose -- Eros or Thanathos -- love of life or love of death.
You have strength but you doubt that strength. You can transcend this if you
choose. You have come for this challenge but you are up to the challenge.
Do the things which you most like to do -- garden, play with children, read
-- let your mind roll on while these subterranean forces play out in your
consciousness. They are affecting a major life shift and you will be glad
you experienced shift once it is complete.
My prayers are with you,
Ann Shermann
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truth
>In article <MPG.104a04792...@news.muhlon.com>,
> caro...@muhlon.com (LdyNRed) wrote:
>>
>> I'm interested in knowing what indicators, if any, there are in
>> my natal, progressed charts or transits that might relate to
>> the depression I've experienced since well before Christmas
>> and continuing to the present, with suicidal thoughts, most strong
>> around May and June of this year. Birth info: June 17, 1954
>> at 6 a.m. (birth certificate time), Hartford, KY (long. 86 degrees 55 minutes
>w,
>> lat. 37 degrees 27 minutes n)
>
>Carolyn,
>
>I have not run your full chart but have done a quick look at your natal
>planetary placements. I agree with one of the prior posters that during this
>time you may find the need for medical assistance. That said, a medical
>response is going to be some type of drug therapy and that can often
>exascerbate the problem.
Unadulturated bullshit.
Are you now claiming to be a physician, Ann? A 'medical response'
is NOT always 'some type of drug therapy.' _Real_ medical
professionals, unlike con artists like astrologers, treat their
patients according to their training and what is best for the patient.
Contrary to your boneheaded assertion, that treatment might not
involve the use of any drug at all.
Unlike astrologers, reputable medical professionals don't see their
patients as giant walking pocketbooks, ripe for the picking.
I'd strongly suggest you invest in a clue before posting astrological
tripe like yours again, Ann. If you want to dispense medical
advice in future, go to medical school.
And Ann, when are you _ever_ going to post that proof that
astrology can discern mental retardation?
<snip>
"Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
Better get those lawyers tuned up-they'll be facing ME!!!"
"Why if I am so goofy have I had a career of counsel and even a
secret clearance from the US government?"
"Since when do scum deserve any truth?"
"... many of you cynics in sci.skeptic are as good
as dead." (apparent death threat posted by Eddie)
"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!
I'll be retired and you idiots will still be saying
BBBBbbuuuuuuttttt bbbuttt-he does't have a, a, a, a
Spaceship!!!! Yeah, yeah that's the ticket-he doesn't
have a spcaeship! I'll bet he DOESN"T have a spaceship!
Fishing, degenerate, negating-SPINIC.
SNIPPPERDOODLE!!!!
"EAT SHIT YOU UGLY BITCH !!!!!!"
"I cannot enjoy usenet isn't there SOMEONE who can
control this crap!?"
Ed "Panty-Head" Wollmann KOTM/LMA in alt.astrology
(taking the tinfoil helmet off)
TRUTH
Stella
In light of the subject of discussion, I decided to have a look at my
friend's (the one who committed suicide) chart. I did not know his time of
birth, so I am very limited not knowing his Moon, Ascendant, Midheaven and
Houses. Any way I found some very interesting indications.
Birth data:
13th April 1971
Norwich, England.
52N41 1E16
Death data:
20th April 1989
Norwich, England
52N41 1E16
Unknown time, but anywhere between Noon and Midnight G.M.T+1 hour (daylight
savings).
On his 18th birthday (1 week before his suicide) transiting Jupiter was
exactly opposed to his natal Jupiter - as you know the Jupiter 'half-return'
is common to all 18 year olds, usually giving a time of setbacks, loss and
discontent with personal achievement. Just a few weeks before this
exactitude he had found out that he had been unsuccessful in his application
to Art College, however, he did not seemed outwardly phased by this. He
never showed much emotion about anything and I wish I knew his Moon
placement (intuitively I would imagine he had an Aquarian Moon - controlled
emotions, strong humanitarian qualities, and the obvious unpredictability
that ended his life).
He never spoke of his problems to anyone, and we (his friends) thought he
was content with life in general. His death was a complete shock to anyone
who knew him.
Transiting influences during the time of his death include the planets
Saturn and Neptune. Neptune had turned retrograde (just before 9:00 am) on
his birthday (7 days before his death) at 12 degrees 23' 14" Capricorn. On
20th April 1989 (his deathday) Neptune was only 44 seconds of orb from
Neptune's retrograde station point. Saturn, OTOH, turned retrograde the day
after his death (22nd April 1989, 10:50 am) at 13 degrees 55' 37"
Capricorn. On his deathday Saturn had an even tighter orb to the retrograde
station point of 15 seconds. Is there a significance in station points, I
wonder? Both transiting planets turning retrograde in Capricorn (ruled by
Saturn, denotes limitation and obligations?) were under the influence of a
square aspect to his natal Uranus.
With the confusion and chaos of Uranus' unpredictability and transit
Neptune's delusion, this would have been a very confusing and stressful time
for him, and would have been a dominating influence *if* he was a Lunar
Aquarian (Uranus rules Aquarius). With transiting Saturn squaring his natal
Uranus, I would imagine this denotes strain, tension and limitation
(Saturn), with possible rash decisions (Uranus).
On the 19th April 1989 (the day before he died) transiting North Node was in
exact conjunct to his Part of Fortune. I found this difficult to interpret
as I do not have much knowledge of either. However, could he have been
questioning his success (Part of Fortune) in his path to future happiness
(N.Node)?????
However I think the overall aspect which sums up his feelings actually
occurred on the day of his suicide. On the 20th April 1989 at exactly 15:19
pm, transiting Chiron (representing physical and emotional pain - suffering)
was inconjunct (awkward, putting pressure on him) his natal Neptune (escape
and retreat from the world). Speaks for itself, doesn't it?
These few aspects are only half the story, much more would be known with his
birth time. But these indications, plus the very strong social indications
are, I believe, what contributed to his suicide. The social indications
tell us of the pressure of exams (which he was facing in the following
months), the usual adolescent dilemmas, and the growing statistics of
suicide occurring in adolescent males.
His death was such a sad, wasteful loss for he was a very talented and
compassionate person, and I miss him dearly. LdyNRed, if you are reading
this, I implore you to seek help. Depression is akin to falling down a very
deep, dark pit. You cannot climb out into the sunshine unless you shout for
help.
from Stella.
David
One thing that came to mind reading about his suicide placements
involved the general nature of the "saturn/neptune" conjunction in
Capricorn which is by nature if not degree the square sign to his Aries
sun sign. It would normally not be so likely to see an Aries do
something like this, so I wonder if the world just looked too heavy for
him during those transits.
Karen, the woman I posted about who jumped from a building, was a Pisces
which, in and of itself would be the seemingly most likely sun-sign for
this sort of thing.I am tempted to throw some of the stuff I found on
here and might. Meanwhile. your friend being a "fire sign" would feel
the temporary loss of "jupiter" as indicated by the oppositon more than
most and "saturn/uranus" is something I found in my mothers death time
as the only major occurrence with saturn right on her "uranus" She was
an Aquarius with "mercury" and "uranus" in Aquarius as well.This leads
me to look to the worldly imposition on the liberating energies as
potentially overwhelming.
Karen died the night of May 18th 1985.On that night "pluto war
retrograding right over her neptune(she was a Pisces).She had "neptune"
in 10 in close square to "uranus" in 8, hence pluto was effectively
controlling her idealism.She had a Scorpio moon square to pluto in 8
which indicates some morbidity already.Saturn was right on her moon,
retrograding at that time hence squaring pluto, a very inhibiting time
of self reproachment I would think.Neptune was at 3 Capricorn having
recently emerged from making a t-square out of her sun/mercury at 29
Pisces and jupiter at 27 Virgo.
Uranus was retrograding right over her ascendent at 16 Sag.Being in 8
natally and squared by pluto by transit, this really gave her license to
behave erratically as she surprised those who were with her by climbing
onto a table and flinging herself off a 26th floor balcony.Jupiter was
at 16 Aquarius, effectively backing up her impulsivity through the
sextile.Her natal saturn, BTW was at 14 Sag right above the asc. and
would have normally prohibited such a move except that it was literally
overruled just then.
Mars was at 15 Gemini adding it's energy to the outcome by creating
negligence where, knowing she had tried something a few months before
and was troubled that night,others allowed her onto the balcony.They
were also too distracted to notice her edging towards the table she
jumped from.Venus was at 15 Aries, also lending a sense of
permission.The sun was at 28 Taurus with the moon coming up behind it a
little earlier in Taurus.This, of course made a t-square out of her
natal moon pluto square and opposed transiting saturn.
All in all, there was virtually everything converging at that time. If
they'd have known to contain her for even another week some things would
have loosened up but no one thought to check on this so strong was the
inevitability it would seem and so sad as she was so sweet but so
tormented. However, was she "tormented" enough to do this? Perhaps not
without all of the assistance she got that night.
It is still a little hard for me to go through this as I knew her and
was hurt so much by this but thought that it might be useful to students
as well as maybe to someone who is considering such a thing for it is
true that things can change and, if you aren't around to see that you
never know. Life is short enough. When down wait it out and work on the
stuff in the meantime. There are better alternatives to what happened to
poor Karen on a lonely night in Toronto.
Stella
David wrote:
> Stella,
>
> One thing that came to mind reading about his suicide placements
> involved the general nature of the "saturn/neptune" conjunction in
> Capricorn which is by nature if not degree the square sign to his Aries
> sun sign. It would normally not be so likely to see an Aries do
> something like this, so I wonder if the world just looked too heavy for
> him during those transits.
I agree, I think the Capricorn influence with the transiting Saturn/Neptune
created an discordant imbalance with his Aries Sun. Arians are usually
determined fighters; but also interesting to note is the fact they view
achievement as vital, if it is lacking (or *seems* to be lacking, due to his
Jupiter half-return), Arians can become physically or psychologically sick.
Another Arian trait is selfishness; and suicide can be viewed as a selfish
act, for it concentrates on the self, rather than the others who are left
behind to deal with the grief and sense of guilt (the 'if onlys' can be
endless for friends and family of a suicide victim. "If only the clock
could be put back, and life relived in a slightly different way! - If only I
stayed with them! - If only the death had been prevented!").
>
>
> Karen, the woman I posted about who jumped from a building, was a Pisces
> which, in and of itself would be the seemingly most likely sun-sign for
> this sort of thing.I am tempted to throw some of the stuff I found on
> here and might. Meanwhile. your friend being a "fire sign" would feel
> the temporary loss of "jupiter" as indicated by the oppositon more than
> most and "saturn/uranus" is something I found in my mothers death time
> as the only major occurrence with saturn right on her "uranus" She was
> an Aquarius with "mercury" and "uranus" in Aquarius as well.This leads
> me to look to the worldly imposition on the liberating energies as
> potentially overwhelming.
>
> Karen died the night of May 18th 1985.On that night "pluto war
> retrograding right over her neptune(she was a Pisces).She had "neptune"
> in 10 in close square to "uranus" in 8, hence pluto was effectively
> controlling her idealism.She had a Scorpio moon square to pluto in 8
> which indicates some morbidity already.Saturn was right on her moon,
> retrograding at that time hence squaring pluto, a very inhibiting time
> of self reproachment I would think.Neptune was at 3 Capricorn having
> recently emerged from making a t-square out of her sun/mercury at 29
> Pisces and jupiter at 27 Virgo.
I note Karen had four personal planets (Sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus) in
Water signs. She must have been extremely emotional and sensitive. Pluto
transiting over her Sun ruler, Neptune (also strengthened by position in
Watery Scorpio) signifies a major change in her life, she may have felt she
no longer had any control in her life. Transiting Pluto was also creating a
square aspect to her natal Uranus which may have meant powerful feelings
(maybe of death - Pluto) were coming to the surface, or deep discontent.
Transiting Saturn conjoin natal Moon would have give her excessive worry and
depression, and her powerful emotional experiences had become a heavy
burden. The T-square you speak of must have also been an extremely
difficult time for her, this was approx. 6 months earlier. Was this when
she had attempted suicide before??
Transiting Neptune was inconjunct to her natal Uranus (my friend, James, had
transiting Neptune square his natal Uranus). This may have given her the
illusion (Neptune) that she was under pressure which resulted in her
unpredictable (Uranus) behaviour?? In fact, due to the formation of
inconjunct aspects in her natal chart, she may have felt burdened by
obligations most of the time.
>
>
> Uranus was retrograding right over her ascendent at 16 Sag.Being in 8
> natally and squared by pluto by transit, this really gave her license to
> behave erratically as she surprised those who were with her by climbing
> onto a table and flinging herself off a 26th floor balcony.Jupiter was
> at 16 Aquarius, effectively backing up her impulsivity through the
> sextile.Her natal saturn, BTW was at 14 Sag right above the asc. and
> would have normally prohibited such a move except that it was literally
> overruled just then.
>
> Mars was at 15 Gemini adding it's energy to the outcome by creating
> negligence where, knowing she had tried something a few months before
> and was troubled that night,others allowed her onto the balcony.They
> were also too distracted to notice her edging towards the table she
> jumped from.Venus was at 15 Aries, also lending a sense of
> permission.The sun was at 28 Taurus with the moon coming up behind it a
> little earlier in Taurus.This, of course made a t-square out of her
> natal moon pluto square and opposed transiting saturn.
The following day would have seen a Solar Eclipse, which would have nearly
opposed her Moon (orb = 4 degrees). I'm not sure whether the orb is to big
to count, but the natal Moon's degree would only be precise with a
completely accurate birth time, so I would be inclined to include it's
significance. Transiting Mars was in exact trine aspect to her natal Chiron
at 18:00 hours, on the day she died. Perhaps this initiated her to act
(Mars can be self-destructive) on her emotional suffering (Chiron in
Aquarius).
>
>
> All in all, there was virtually everything converging at that time. If
> they'd have known to contain her for even another week some things would
> have loosened up but no one thought to check on this so strong was the
> inevitability it would seem and so sad as she was so sweet but so
> tormented. However, was she "tormented" enough to do this? Perhaps not
> without all of the assistance she got that night.
That is the suicide legacy, all the 'What if's', and 'was there really any
need' thoughts stay with you for the rest of your life.
>
>
> It is still a little hard for me to go through this as I knew her and
> was hurt so much by this but thought that it might be useful to students
> as well as maybe to someone who is considering such a thing for it is
> true that things can change and, if you aren't around to see that you
> never know.
When you hit the bottom, the only way is up!
> Life is short enough. When down wait it out and work on the
> stuff in the meantime. There are better alternatives to what happened to
> poor Karen on a lonely night in Toronto.
> Dave
>
> "Not that there's anything wrong with that"
I hope my comments on Karen's chart have been helpful, thank you for your
input with regard to James' chart. I found studying his chart has helped me
to understand his reasons, (he never left a suicide note, the only way we
know his death was self-induced, was his ripped up birthday cards on his
parent's living room floor). However, I have not been able to fathom his
violent self-destruction (he walked along a rail track until an express
train hit him) or the fact he did not seem to want saving. Most suicides
are in fact a cry for help, not a desire for death, but the method he chose
was so very final.from Stella.
David
Thank you for adding to the insights regarding Karen. I hope hers and
James' experienceswill serve as some sort of helpful tool for others.
That James did something so dramatic was not really surprising for an
Aries male.That you were able to understand better withg his chart is a
blessing. Since my father died when I was 15, this is the main way I
have gotten to know him and it makes such sense, even the effect he had
on me.Those who don't give "astrology" a chance are missing out on a
lot.Thanks again.
Dreammin
>> the depression I've experienced since well before Christmas
>> and continuing to the present, with suicidal thoughts, most strong
>> around May and June of this year. Birth info: June 17, 1954
>> at 6 a.m. (birth certificate time), Hartford, KY (long. 86 degrees 55
>minutes
>w,
>Ann Shermann said
>You are going through one of the toughest transits there is, IMO -- traniting
>Neptune squaring your natal Saturn(in Scorpio)/Venus (in late Cancer) square.
>All the natural underpinings of your life are dissolving right before your
>eyes. There seems to be no place that safe, secure from doubt. THIS IS
>TEMPORARY! It is a transit and it will PASS. It will be over but you must
>persevere and know that it is temporary. You have Saturn in Scorpio and
>there is an innate love affair with death -- it is so much easier, the
>knowledge is so appealing, the transcendance apparently so complete -- and
>yet, there is a part which is a survivor of the journey to the depths and
>KNOWS it must hang on, and not give in to the easy path. It is time that you
>must choose -- Eros or Thanathos -- love of life or love of death.
>
>
Dreammin Asks:
Ann, Please explain IMO-transiting
THanks..
Also,,If you look at a chart without considering transits, can you determine
suicidal potential?
Thanks again
Jo
Dreammin in Lincoln Rhode Island
What is Within you,, Surrounds you
Dreammin
>which, in and of itself would be the seemingly most likely sun-sign for
>this sort of thing.
Re Suicide Dreammin Writes
Dave? Didn't I just get a severe beating for doing that..(Sag/burns) remember?
However, I wonder if you look up the transits for dec 10th, 1989 1130 PM and
make a comparison
to one Pisces person with Cancer rising 03 degrees...if you can see suicide
there..
Note: I really don;t understand transits or degrees, so go easy on me..
By the way, Pisces is not that connected to earth and I would have made a pat
statement just like you did regarding Pisces being the most likely to take
his/her life..
THanking You
Joanna
David
The statement about "Pisces" was pretty generic. It doesn't mean that
every person with anything in that sign will do anything of that nature.
However, given the sense of something more which pervades Pisces
placements this world can look pretty ugly at times.
I'd venture a guess that nothing conclusive occurred on the date you
mention and am thankful for it.I did notice that every planet but the
sun was in a negative sign, not a very "up" time for anyone especially
one who might be a little more on the sensitive side.Hopefully whatever
lessons were necessary were learned at that time and things are going
better as a result.
As for "pat statements", Leos are most likely to self combust, Cancers
to explode from overeating,Taureans to get caught in landlsides as they
attempt to get something out of a closet, Virgos will often pick
themselves to death, which is just a more pristine version of Scorpio
stinging itself to death(and they wonder why they shared the ancient
word MEM).Don't really feel in the mood to do a Linda Goodman here so
will stop for now."Pat statements", inclinations, all a part of the
bigger picture we all seek to enjoy in our own ways.
Stella
Dreammin wrote:
> >Karen, the woman I posted about who jumped from a building, was a Pisces
> >which, in and of itself would be the seemingly most likely sun-sign for
> >this sort of thing.
>
> Re Suicide Dreammin Writes
Hi Dreammin,
I hope you don't mind if I butt in!
>
>
> Dave? Didn't I just get a severe beating for doing that..(Sag/burns) remember?
I remember that you did not receive a beating as such, just a confusion to how you
thought a person with a burnt arm would automatically be a Sagittarius.
However, Karen had a very strong Pisces influence (Sun, Mercury and Venus).
Pisces is a water sign and the relevant parts of Pisces, in essense, are a lack of
self-confidence, escapist tendencies (which includes suicide: the ultimate escape)
and interestingly, few fear the idea of dying and most believe in reincarnation or
in salvation. There is also the Piscean idea of sacrifice, perhaps an unhappy
Piscean (due to difficult aspects and transits) may decide to sacrifice their life
with the belief their soul will be reincarnated or given salvation
>
>
> However, I wonder if you look up the transits for dec 10th, 1989 1130 PM and
> make a comparison
> to one Pisces person with Cancer rising 03 degrees...if you can see suicide
> there..
> Note: I really don;t understand transits or degrees, so go easy on me..
What time zone? My mother is Pisces Sun and Cancer Moon, but she has not killed
herself, although I must admit she did try once early in her life. Suicide is a
culmination of external pressures which are either coped with, or not, by the
potentials within your birth chart. The idea of astrology is to strengthen your
natal chart's bad points so that this episode can never happen. To assume that
suicide is a possiblity you have to also assume the native has not dealt with his
problematic psychology. This is only a certainty once a tragedy such as suicide
has occured.
All in my humble opinion of course.
Stella.
>
>
> By the way, Pisces is not that connected to earth and I would have made a pat
> statement just like you did regarding Pisces being the most likely to take
> his/her life..
> THanking You
> Joanna
>
> Dreammin in Lincoln Rhode Island
> What is Within you,, Surrounds you
--
Dreammin
>
>Hi Dreammin,
>
>I hope you don't mind if I butt in!
>
>>
>>
>> Dave? Didn't I just get a severe beating for doing that..(Sag/burns)
>remember?
>
>I remember that you did not receive a beating as such, just a confusion to
>how you
>thought a person with a burnt arm would automatically be a Sagittarius.
>
>However, Karen had a very strong Pisces influence (Sun, Mercury and Venus).
>Pisces is a water sign and the relevant parts of Pisces, in essense, are a
>lack of
>self-confidence, escapist tendencies (which includes suicide: the ultimate
>escape)
>and interestingly, few fear the idea of dying and most believe in
>reincarnation or
>in salvation. There is also the Piscean idea of sacrifice, perhaps an
>unhappy
>Piscean (due to difficult aspects and transits) may decide to sacrifice their
>life
>with the belief their soul will be reincarnated or given salvation
Hi
Regarding the sign of Pisecs..Thank you for the in-put. I'm learning more than
I didn't know I didn't know..
I always felt Pisces was certain that death doesn't mean END.. and as a Pisces
I can say,, why leave? THis earth suit is never comfortable.. but I know if I
control my death, I have to come back and wear it again!!
I would like a diffferent one.. :~)
However, there are many cases of the mind being "blown".. In this space the
suicide (I think) is a present you give the ones you love ..of course this is
not rational in a healthier space, but Pisces cannot easily see the distruction
of suicide.
Dying is part of living..
Did I just make sense?
Thanks
Dreammin
>every person with anything in that sign will do anything of that nature.
>However, given the sense of something more which pervades Pisces
>placements this world can look pretty ugly at times.
>
>sun was in a negative sign, not a very "up" time for anyone especially
>one who might be a little more on the sensitive side.Hopefully whatever
>lessons were necessary were learned at that time and things are going
>better as a result.
>
>As for "pat statements", Leos are most likely to self combust, Cancers
>to explode from overeating,Taureans to get caught in landlsides as they
>attempt to get something out of a closet, Virgos will often pick
>themselves to death, which is just a more pristine version of Scorpio
>stinging itself to death(and they wonder why they shared the ancient
>word MEM).Don't really feel in the mood to do a Linda Goodman here so
>will stop for now."Pat statements", inclinations, all a part of the
>bigger picture we all seek to enjoy in our own ways.
>Dave
>
>"Not that there's anything wrong with that"
>
I like it!!
I like it a lot~~
Joanna
Brad D.
Depression normally has to do with the natal Moon and its aspects. Looking at your
natal chart in the sidereal version of the zodiac we find a natal Moon in Sag in
between Nnode and Mars. This shows a lot of impatience generally and anger. There
are also very high aspirations here and heightened sensitivity(just after a full
Moon). Using whole sign houses this puts the configuration in the 7th house of
partnerships which means that there will be much trouble and unhappiness in that
area. Often this also means the mother was troubled mentally and emotionally. In
oppostion to four planets in Gemini(including Sun, Jupiter, Ketu and Mercury) this
shows your are very bright intellectually and have an extremely active imagination.
Saturn in the 5th house in Libra in a trine to Jupiter shows good judgement and
wisdom. Mercury rising in Gemini is another factor for brilliance.
Your knowledge and wisdom has overcome many obstacles in life. Under affliction, the
Moon/Node/Mars/Mercury will give you troubles. Saturn did a Rx station on the Moon
by square in July of '96. In August of '97 Saturn stationed on your Mercury/Asc. and
in Dec of '97 did a direct station square to the Moon and Merc. Many mutable planets
shows a person that normally lives in the mental realms and is highly susceptible to
strong transits of Saturn. In May and June of this year Saturn came to square your
natal Saturn/Venus square and brought up issues regarding your own lack of love as a
child and possibly thoughts regarding seperation from your own children or lack of
children. Saturns Rx motion will come back over the natal Venus again by square
giving you an opportunity to come to terms with your feelings of lack of love.
Things will be much improved by next spring. I dont think you will ever commit
suicide because of your level of knowledge(which should include what happens to a
soul in the next life who commits such an act). Jupiters strong aspect to the Moon
also means emotional troubles are overcome through knowledge and wisdom.
Please do not be so hard on yourself. You have many gifts to offer the
world--including teaching, writing, directing and communication skills. A potential
good partner may enter your life in the summer or fall of 1999(if you are presently
looking for such a partnership that is).
Sincerely,
Brad D.
LdyNRed wrote:
> I'm interested in knowing what indicators, if any, there are in
> my natal, progressed charts or transits that might relate to
> the depression I've experienced since well before Christmas
> and continuing to the present, with suicidal thoughts, most strong
> around May and June of this year. Birth info: June 17, 1954
> at 6 a.m. (birth certificate time), Hartford, KY (long. 86 degrees 55 minutes w,
LdyNRed
I am just now seeing it, since I
took a brief rest from the newsgroups recently to do some reading
concerning depression and suicide.
Just wanted to say that I'm feeling much better in the past several
weeks. I started taking Kava Kava, additional B vitamins and melatonin
several weeks ago after reading about the connection between serotonin
levels decreasing and depression. It appears to be helping quite a
bit and I think I can handle the rest, maybe. At least I don't feel
quite so hopeless and overwhelmed and there are things I am looking
forward to again now.
Thanks again the info and analysis. <G>
LdyNRed
In article <35E642CA...@earthlink.net>,
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