Black Moon Lilith and Synastry.
Christine
I thought I'd have my first look at ( in)famous couples and their MEAN BML
synastry, so went through the *stars* section of my data base.
I-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g ! Mostly oldies... but even so ;-
Lucille Ball Sun 12LE 46 BML 26 SG.
Desi Arnaz BML 12 LE 46 Desc. 26 SG 43.
H. Bogart BML and MA. 26 CN-150- MC 26 AQ39,
Asc. 21 GE 16
L. Bacall MA 25 AQ 34, BML 19 GE 50.
Monty Clift Sun 23 LI 40 (open secret, in love with...)
Liz Taylor BML 22 AR 38
R. Burton CH. 25 AR 03 trine NE 24 LE 43.
M. Rooney I.C. 17PI 14 sxt. BML 17 CP 41
(openly admitted love for..)
J. Garland BML 17 PI 28 cjn MC; Asc. 19 CN 01
The keeping up of appearances of.....
Cath. Hepburn BML 3 CN 55 MA 15 CP 48
Sp. Tracy SA 4 CP 58 BML 14 VI 54 sqr PL 14 GE 56
Six mill. $ Lee Majors BML 13 AQ 49 I.C. 0 CP 19
Angel Farah Fawcett Sun 13 AQ 12 BML 0 CP 19
Super Soap Ryan O' Neil Sun-Ve- BML 0-4 TA; PL 2 LE 02.
Rob. Wagner BML 29 CP 29 Moon 7 CN 16
Nath.Wood Sun 27 CN 23 BML 12 CP 49
And royalty ??????
Charles PL 16 LE 34
Diana BML 16 LE 46
(Anyone know birth data Coo Stark ?)
Andrew BML 21 GE 12 PL. 05 VI 01
Sarah Sun 21 LI 16 BML 06 GE 57.
BML may be an empty focal point with *nothing in it*.....but,
astrologically, I keep finding it harder
to believe that. :-))
Regards.
Christine.
SeaGtGruff
> Hi all,
> I thought I'd have my first look at ( in)famous couples and their MEAN BML
> synastry, so went through the *stars* section of my data base.
> I-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g ! Mostly oldies... but even so ;-
>
> Lucille Ball Sun 12LE 46 BML 26 SG.
> Desi Arnaz BML 12 LE 46 Desc. 26 SG 43.
[...]
I think I'm impressed by this one the most! It certainly provides food for
thought, doesn't it?
Michael Rideout
Christine
SeaGtGruff <seagt...@aol.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
20020116005957...@mb-fh.aol.com...
Arnaz = A, so it was the first one I looked at (knowing who he was married
to) for comparison. Can you imagine how *I* felt when I saw Lucy's chart?
It was another push to carry on, regardless! I was rather touched by Mickey
Rooney and Judy Garland too. As in a personal chart, I think BML's aspect
to another point or planet in synsatry will say
something about how the irresistible pull or repulsion of manhood/womanhood
between the two people involved effected them in their relationship.
Now that the accepted standard of/between relationships is changing, it will
be interesting to see how BML stands in charts of modern relationships,
where couples ' should' be treating each other in ways that are not
influenced by, or irrespective of, gender. Next step will be to see if this
shows up in BML's placing in the compatibility chart...............but
that's on the agenda for 2005 !!!
Regards.
Christine
Raymond
Did you check out the true Black Moon Lillith positions at Swiss
Ephemeris at astro.com? They are the same calculations as Riyal and
WinStar. Somebody else calculated my true BML from the Swiss
ephemeris, and they said that it was 5'42 R Scorpio which is conjunct
my 5'20 Scorpio Sun within half degree. So it's the same calculation
as the one that Rebecca told me,the one I calculated from Riyal
software, and the one that was calculated from WinStar. So it's not
Juan Revilla's calculations solely. She says that she has done a lot
of research with BML,and she said that the true positions worked
better than the mean. She's Sue Simmons, and she has a site with some
information on Black Moon Lillith.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3Liliths
Ray
"Christine" <a.h...@planet.nl> wrote in message news:<a23mca$ht4$1...@reader08.wxs.nl>...
Christine
Raymond <Gla...@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
42653b7f.02011...@posting.google.com...
> Hi Christine,
>
> Did you check out the true Black Moon Lillith positions at Swiss
> Ephemeris at astro.com? They are the same calculations as Riyal and
> WinStar. Somebody else calculated my true BML from the Swiss
> ephemeris, and they said that it was 5'42 R Scorpio which is conjunct
> my 5'20 Scorpio Sun within half degree.
Hi Ray,
I think our differences with these degrees *are* the fact that you use the
TRUE Black Moon Lilith and I use MEAN Black Moon. I've just looked up the
original article in TMA April/May 1999(that started me on the Lilith trail),
and the positions provided were calculated by Solar Fire. These positions
coincide within a few minutes to those I cross-checked with the daily list
provided by:-
http://water.fce.vutbr.cz/~pepa/lilith/lilith_e.htm
(SWISS EPHEMERIS)
These positions coincide with the positions used in both my computer
programmes, so I guess they came through Swiss Ephemeris. Finally, I checked
the birth data of the star names listed in original post, that were in the
data base provided with the programmes I have. I suppose this data was
collected from various sources over the years but, once again, position of
MEAN Lilith agrees with Sw. Eph. and Solar Fire.
It's the MEAN position upon which my two-and-a-half year study so far, is
based.
Perhaps Alois can tell us if Swiss Ephemeris provides TWO (or more?)
calculations for Lilith and, if so, be kind enough to give the website
addresses.
So it's the same calculation
> as the one that Rebecca told me,the one I calculated from Riyal
> software, and the one that was calculated from WinStar. So it's not
> Juan Revilla's calculations solely. She says that she has done a lot
> of research with BML,and she said that the true positions worked
> better than the mean. She's Sue Simmons, and she has a site with some
> information on Black Moon Lillith.
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3Liliths
>
>
> Ray
I don't consider for a moment that anyone doing research with the Black Moon
is on a wrong trail, even if they choose different paths to reach similar
conclusions. They may simply see Lilith from a different, possibly
personally influenced, point of view. I mentioned before that I am reading
a Belgian book, in which the author uses the ' corrected' Lilith position,
that retrogrades. She swears by this position, making yours approx. 23 degr.
Libra !
One thing I am wondering about. She sees Lilith working through a definite
Plutonian point of view. My own view works more through Saturn-Neptune (must
be that T-square in my chart!) with the disconnected aspect of Uranus added,
which I consider to be the effect of my square to Lilith from UR. conj.
M.C.. Lilith also trines my Moon, Mercury and Venus, is quintile Saturn, and
conjunct Chiron and Ascendant. It's trying to get a lot through to me,
apparently :-)) Do you know what I mean?
I'll check out Sue's website and add it to my ever-growing list. Thanks for
mentioning it.
Best regards.
Christine.
Christine
> of research with BML,and she said that the true positions worked
> better than the mean. She's Sue Simmons, and she has a site with some
> information on Black Moon Lillith.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3Liliths
> Ray
Hi Ray and all,
Have just spent a while at this site....reading the Dutch!
There are many inter-links to other websites within it. Some are simply a
con to get you onto the specific site, or not about Lilith, or no
astrological info., or no longer available. Depends upon how much time you
have to spare in searching for relevant info. of interest.
One thing that strikes me with everything I read about Lilith's myth, is '
her' connection with the tree of knowledge and Good and Evil. Adam must have
been Good, so everyone seems to work from the assumption that Lilith is
representation of Evil. But what if Lilith represents the inner feeling
sense that knows *the difference between* what is good and evil, right and
wrong, etc? It can put her actions in an entirely different light. If,
knowingly, one feels a natural sense of what is wrong but does it anyway, or
suppresses the natural feeling that something is good and right, it is
Saturn that is going to point the finger of guilt in the physical world, the
Just God in everyone, isn't it? In myth, Lilith fled from what she
considered to be wrong, so how can she be representation of Evil ? She
apparently *curses* God's name. What if it was a plea or scream for help
that went unheard?
The whole thing about Lilith's infamy is the reason behind her refusing
Adam's advances, and everyone loves a bit of juicy sensationalism to talk
and write about, don't they? She was also barren. I have yet to read
anything where anyone ever considers that she might represent the concept of
the untouched natural instinct and innocence, i.e. in pre-puberty, as well
as the great primordial mother (post- menstral wisdom ?), rather than a sexy
sort of feminine half-beast (the woman imbetween) luring men who cannot, or
are not in control of their own primal instincts and desires and are
therefore attracted/repulsed by her charms. After all, it WAS submissive Eve
who actually underwent the physical temptation, not Lilith. Who will ever
blame the Moon ? Much easier to throw it all at Lilith who, unwillingly,
accepts the blame by the very fleeing from what is the truth :-)).
It is this concept of the suppression of something natural with which I work
in trying to understand the meaning behind Lilith in the natal chart. It
does seem to represent a point indicating an inherent natural instinctual
truth and wisdom, according to sign and house, from which one consciously,
rather than unconsciously, flees. But that's just my view. I could be a dog
sniffing up a wrong trail :-)
Checking with other sources; if the mean, true or corrected Lilith, the Dark
Moon, or the asteroid called Lilith are in the same sign, there is always
the same idea appertaining to its meaning through the characteristics of
that sign because the thoughts, as influenced by the myth, are very often
the same to start with. It's when these Lilith positions are in different
signs to one another in the natal chart, that research can show which one
is valid and true....and that could be a long way off yet, ' cos who is
truly honest enough to him/herself about the 'good' and ' bad' points of
their natural nature!
Regards.
Christine.
Raymond
Oh I see. You use the corrected Black Moon instead of true Black
Moon. I thought that you gave me the true Black Moon position.
Actually, Sue said that she got the true BML calculations from the
Swiss Ephemeris. Thanks for clearing things up for me. Your posts are
very interesting and insightful. Looking forward to seeing more of
your posts. Take care.
Sincerely,
Ray
"Christine" <a.h...@planet.nl> wrote in message news:<a2d46q$8ck$1...@reader07.wxs.nl>...
traceyK
I am very Interested in this thread! I see that the Lilith of a man
whom i have known for a long time...and care deeply for...is conjunct
my ascendant!!! What could this mean? we have always had sort of
love/hate relationship. We have never been romantically involved but I
have always felt the attraction...the interest is there---but so is,
for some weird reason, a sense of trepidation or what I can only
describe as..."Fear"?? Any thoughts?
Christine
traceyK <trace...@yahoo.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
b88e0140.02012...@posting.google.com...
> I am very Interested in this thread! I see that the Lilith of a man
> whom i have known for a long time...and care deeply for...is conjunct
> my ascendant!!! What could this mean? we have always had sort of
> love/hate relationship. We have never been romantically involved but I
> have always felt the attraction...the interest is there---but so is,
> for some weird reason, a sense of trepidation or what I can only
> describe as..."Fear"?? Any thoughts?
Hi Tracey,
A few thoughts, and that's ALL they are at this stage!
>From another thread, it seems you feel a special connection to this person.
There may be a Neptune or Pluto aspect involved somewhere, giving a feeling
of something karmic.
As far as my study of Lilith goes, it usually shows some sort of chosen
*disconnection* or lack of bonding, but which is indicative of an inner
longing and yearning for something that cannot take form or ever be (Lilith
is not a physical object), UNLESS one of the physical personal planets uses
its influence to bring something about within reality. If Lilith in a natal
chart makes an aspect to one of the outer planets, however, the personal
disconnection and lack of bonding within relationships appears to be
necessary so that something very special and unique within the person has
the chance to surface. I have seen many charts where such aspects indicate
doing something that, in the eyes of the world is considered
non-conformative, ab-normal, psychic, or super-natural. We live with others
in our lives but, sometimes, a person is so under the influence of another's
force upon them, that they lose a part of themselves in the process. This
part is often representaive of a quality of Lilith.
If the person has his Lilith on your Ascendant, it can work different ways.
Either as the irrisistible attraction to, or repulsion of, you personally.
Either way it is probably because there is something he sees in you, as
expressed through your Ascendant sign, with which he has difficulty dealing
because it could mean he loses his masculine control and the instinctual
senses take over. Whether he is a 'manly' type or not, but you are strong,
you could be someone he chooses to avoid because you bring what he considers
to be (but may not be) the weakness in his nature to the surface. Just as
easily, you could feel that he has the same effect on you. You see him as
the most charismatic, Svengali or Rasputin type of man, who could easily
make you lose 'your' senses (or head), and easily lead you up the garden
path with promises of a forbidden Paradise he has no intention of turning
into a reality.
I notice he is 17 years your senior. If Lilith is in aspect to Neptune, he
could see in you the illusion of lost youth he would like to retrieve, but
never can. You may see him as the mystical figure to whom you cannot
willingly submit because you feel that, by doing so, you lose an essential
part of yourself. If Pluto is involved, he and/or you is attracted by an
obsession ( of any kind including affairs, gambling, beliefs etc.).
Anything make sense?
Regards.
Christine.
One single aspect in synastry does not make or break a relationship. But,
where Lilith is involved, things are definitely NOT what they appear to be!
Raymond
I understand what you're saying. When I read Kelley Hunter's
article, Black Moon Lillith struck me as being Scorpionic. Especially
about the unbaring of the passions of the soul. I thought that Black
Moon Lillith in synastry could be deep soul connections/attractions
right after first reading about that. I can pretty much identify with
Lillith for I was born during a Sun-true Black Moon Lillith
eclipse(Sun and Black Moon Lillith were tightly conjunct and tightly
parallel), and I feel that Lillith energy. Plutino/Transplutonian
asteroid,KX76 right on my Sun-Black Moon conjunction intensifies it
too. I wonder about how true Black Moon Lillith would be like in
synastry. There is this lady whose ascendant is tightly conjunct my
Sun/true BML/KX76 stellium. I have a galactic point conjuncting all
that too. It is a quasar at 5 degrees Scorpio called Apollo, and it
has to do with being passionate and intense. There is also a quasar at
5 degrees Taurus called Artemis which has to do with breakdown of
materialism. I There is even a pulsar at 3 degrees Pisces that
conjuncts my Moon in 3'11 Pisces. Call me Galactic Man! heheheheh Just
kidding. Galactic points are fascinating, and so are fixed stars. I
have Moon conjunct Fomalhaut in the constellation of Piscis Austrinus
and conjunct Sadalmelik in the constellation of Aquarius. Fixed Star
parans are insightful too. I just love Astrology. So much stuff to
study that is fascinating.
Ray
Christine" <a.h...@planet.nl> wrote in message news:<a2ec81$h3k$1...@reader07.wxs.nl>...
Christine
> Hi Christine,
>
> I understand what you're saying.
Hi Ray,
That's very good and stimulating to hear, and thanks for your kind words in
your previous post.
I can pretty much identify with
> Lillith for I was born during a Sun-true Black Moon Lillith
> eclipse(Sun and Black Moon Lillith were tightly conjunct and tightly
> parallel), and I feel that Lillith energy. Plutino/Transplutonian
> asteroid,KX76 right on my Sun-Black Moon conjunction intensifies it
> too. I wonder about how true Black Moon Lillith would be like in
> synastry. There is this lady whose ascendant is tightly conjunct my
> Sun/true BML/KX76 stellium. I have a galactic point conjuncting all
> that too. It is a quasar at 5 degrees Scorpio called Apollo, and it
> has to do with being passionate and intense. There is also a quasar at
> 5 degrees Taurus called Artemis which has to do with breakdown of
> materialism. I There is even a pulsar at 3 degrees Pisces that
> conjuncts my Moon in 3'11 Pisces. Call me Galactic Man! heheheheh Just
> kidding. Galactic points are fascinating, and so are fixed stars. I
> have Moon conjunct Fomalhaut in the constellation of Piscis Austrinus
> and conjunct Sadalmelik in the constellation of Aquarius. Fixed Star
> parans are insightful too.
You seem to have done a lot of work with the asteroids in your own chart,
and have a feeling about what they mean. Have you gone as far as checking
the same asteroid in other people's charts and asking what the persons feel
this could signify in their lives? If you have a similarity, you're on the
right track along which you can travel further; if it's a
comparison.....keep sniffing :-)
I just love Astrology.
Me too.
So much stuff to
> study that is fascinating.
> Ray
>
I agree; just don't lose sight of the beauty of the forest for all those
individual trees!
Best regards.
Christine.