Pluto conjunct North Node
Afroditi
of Pluto conjunct noth node...
All i've read is mass movements, great power influence,
but nothing really applies to my life....
Any suggestions?
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Keera A. Fox
> Does anyone have an more down to earth approach explanation
> of Pluto conjunct noth node...
> All i've read is mass movements, great power influence,
> but nothing really applies to my life....
>
> Any suggestions?
You mean in a natal chart? I have that and it seems to moderate my Pluto
a bit. I seem to have avoided most of the horror stories that seem to
accompany Pluto and its transits.
I'm currently plowing through Jeff Green's "Pluto: The Evolutionary
Journey of the Soul" and he goes into Pluto's function in connection
with the Nodes as expression of our karma. He says that if you have
Pluto conjunct the North Node, you are working on the same karma this
lifetime as you were last lifetime. Focusing, as it were, and/or taking
your time.
--
***** Keera in Norway ***** | alt.astrology's Astrology 101
* Think Big. Shrink to fit. * | now in session
http://home.online.no/~kafox | home.online.no/~kafox/Astro101
Orion22
<olga_lef...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>Does anyone have an more down to earth approach explanation
>of Pluto conjunct noth node...
>All i've read is mass movements, great power influence,
>but nothing really applies to my life....
>
>Any suggestions?
>
Let's face it, the Pluto archetype represents that which is beyond.
In the case of our solar system, it represents that which is beyond
our solar system. Wheras the solar wind of our Sun holds our
consciousness within the bounds of this solar system and its
vibrations, the subtle Pluto vibration is addressing how to get beyond
solar consciousness and open to other solar dimensions and more -
beyond our solar dimension. People who have been working the Pluto
vibration for a long time (many lives), may also have a strong
harmonious connection with the Galactic Center (approx 26 SAG 00). If
so, they have found eternal love and peace.
The Pluto archetype represents ascention. People with Pluto conjunct
the north node of the Moon are and have been working on ascention for
a long time. They are leaving no stones unturned. They generally
want to know how the whole process of "spiritual evolution" works and
the Galactic Center vibration invites the person into sacred service -
helping others to awaken and ascend.
If you have Pluto conjunct north node and you are not interested in
ascention (I know some) then just know that someday you will be. One
thing that will stick out like a sore thumb on these people is their
clarvoyant gifts (power insights / second sight) that are awakening.
The house and sign Pluto is in tells what gifts will awaken. Pluto in
the 11th, for instance, signifies that the power plane will awaken
consciously through metaphysics.
If you see no gifts awakening (there are some that haven't) then the
one undeniable phenomena that will manifest is an unusual expertise.
What ever planet/s, house and sign are opposite Pluto in the chart are
the natives area of expertise. It works especially well where planets
opposite Pluto are concerned. The planet opposite is an area of just
plain genius with these people. The north node just adds persistence
to the Pluto quest.
Hope that helps,
Stephen Crowl
miracat
his M.C.All of this in Cancer.
The North Node conjunct Pluto forces the native to evolve on
the path symbolised by the sign it's in.When conjunct Pluto,
the evolutinary force is caracterised by crisis which the
native cannot control...The last inavitable crisis being
Death itself: my father died in an aircrash on a perfectly
calm sunny day...
Afroditi
well, the truth is that as years pass I slowly start
realizing some metaphisical "gifts".... something that
younger I wouldn't be able to unerstand.
Concidering that Pluto and N. Node is in Libra cnj 8th
cusp... one of those "gifts" that I begin to realize is
indeed the understanding of other people's pscychology
without having to talk to or hang around with them a
lot.....
ToMoondanz
>The house and sign Pluto is in tells what gifts will awaken. Pluto in
>the 11th, for instance, signifies that the power plane will awaken
>consciously through metaphysics.
>
>If you see no gifts awakening (there are some that haven't) then the
>one undeniable phenomena that will manifest is an unusual expertise.
>What ever planet/s, house and sign are opposite Pluto in the chart are
>the natives area of expertise. It works especially well where planets
>opposite Pluto are concerned. The planet opposite is an area of just
>plain genius with these people. The north node just adds persistence
>to the Pluto quest.
>
>Hope that helps,
>
>Stephen Crowl
My closest aspect is with Pluto oppossing Chiron 0 degrees 15 minutes,
Pluto(Virgo) in the 5th-Chiron(Pisces) in the 11th. Not to sound to sceptical,
but..... This is my area of genius??? Perhaps that is something I have to look
forward to in the future :)
Also N.Node in the 5th, but not a conjunction.
moondanz
Afroditi
my Pluto hasn't any hard aspects... I was wondering if your
has.....
miracat
I found your comments on Pluto conjunct the North Node and
opposite inner planets very interesting. Did you find some
of these ideas in a particular book ? If so, could you tell
us/me its title? Thanx.
Orion22
>Hi,
>This has been bugging me all night then I realized that "finding" and
>"keeping" are two completely different things...
>Susan S.
>------
>Stephen Crowl wrote;
>>(snip)People who have been working the Pluto
>>vibration for a long time (many lives), may also have a strong
>>harmonious connection with the Galactic Center (approx 26 SAG 00). If
>>so, they have found eternal love and peace."(snip)
I knew there was something I liked about your posts, Susan.
There is nothing like new Love is there. That is part of it. The
other part is that we have to bring that Love down into every aspect
of our being - the physical part being the toughest (lots of shame,
blame, and guilt in matter). But, then, that is the price of the
ticket to the theater - Planet Earth. The cleanup work.
As far as Saturn on the Galactic Center goes - well, we all have our
jobs. Some day you will be crossing the River Stix (sp) and you will
just let those drowning around you drown (without guilt and without
blame), and feel okay with saving yourself (Psyche's lesson and three
time price for becoming immortal). We can't feel responsible (Saturn)
for that which was not ours in the first place - forever. Look at
your Psyche?
We human beings are SUCH generous beings - especially the worst of us.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Keera A. Fox
> I too haven't lived any of those horror stories..... but
> my Pluto hasn't any hard aspects... I was wondering if your
> has.....
Square my Sun.
Orion22
<miramoor...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>Hello Stephen,
>I found your comments on Pluto conjunct the North Node and
>opposite inner planets very interesting. Did you find some
>of these ideas in a particular book ? If so, could you tell
>us/me its title? Thanx.
>
Talk to my guides. They love this stuff and the internet. They are
very social so I let them out to play occassionally. Ever looked up
your guides in your chart?
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Orion22
wrote:
>Thanks a lot for this long, and informative reply...
>well, the truth is that as years pass I slowly start
>realizing some metaphisical "gifts".... something that
>younger I wouldn't be able to unerstand.
>
>Concidering that Pluto and N. Node is in Libra cnj 8th
>cusp... one of those "gifts" that I begin to realize is
>indeed the understanding of other people's pscychology
>without having to talk to or hang around with them a
>lot.....
>
>
That's a very good assessment. Pluto qualities do awaken late in
life. That is why I encourage people to be patient with the awakening
of the claire-senses. The Pluto vibration peaks between 42 and 48 in
all people. That is why power issues of abuse, etc. often awaken
during that time. You see, if we awaken to our gifts, then we must
"see" our abuse issues also. It can be a traumatic experience, but
the aftermath is truly worth the experience. Everyone has
claire-senses, but only those willing to "see" their abuse issues will
awaken the claire-senses. This is all Pluto stuff.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Afroditi
powers developing (slowly)...
Perhaps, I have to work on them more.... and wait to see...
Thanks
jer...@my-deja.com
Soul's Purpose" (or something like that) to better understand my north
node (which is in Virgo). For me, it means that my highest virtues or
my life's task is to develop skills of being productive for others,
being of service to others, analyzing, helping people with health
issues, (ie, doing all the highest order Virgo things as my major task
in life.)
My north node is conjunct Pluto (and my sun, by the way), and it seems
to me that this conjunction adds the elements of Pluto to the north
node purpose. WIth Pluto's energy, I have a better ability to strip
away "dead" things that clog up my life's purpose (also, if I don't
strip them away, God strips them away for me---which is not pleasant).
And there's a Plutonian way that my life's purpose resurrects in
everything I do. I find new ways to make my interests in martial arts
and alternative health useful to other people.
Pluto gives people the ability to see past masks, mirages, and just
plain crap. But it also means that Plutonian people have all that same
stuff stripped away where ever it lurks in them. So I feel like we are
under a double whammy to be honest with ourselves and face ourselves.
I come from a perspective that all of us are put here to do good and to
be good, in this life, without reference to any past life. My opinion
is that Pluto conjunct north node people are going to be a little more
driven by the universe to do their life's task. Until they learn to
drive themselves to do it, and then they will be operating in harmony
with the purposes of the universe. Once they achieve that harmony of
purpose with the universe, they may very well be "blessed by Pluto" and
be very strong, self-reliant, determined people who can do good.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
miracat
from that your reply isn't all that helpful...
Are you telling me that you have access to some divine
dimentions of the Universe? A kind of spiritual cosmic Web
which sends you personal e-mails? And if I only cared to
look at my chart, I'd find my very own cosmic guide ready to
deliver his wisdom free of charge...O.K. His name is Mr.
Pluto.
Steven, my Mr. Pluto Guide is counjunct my Moon in Leo: I am
waiting for his message or yours...care to help?
Orion22
>Hi Stephen,
>I'm 42 and I think I'm done...
>Susan S.
>(with Sun in 12th opposed a Scorpio Moon and Neptune both squaring Uranus
>which equals 2 Grand Crosses)
>------
>Stephen Crowl wrote:
>>(snip)The Pluto vibration peaks between 42 and 48 in
>>all people. That is why power issues of abuse, etc. often awaken
>>during that time. You see, if we awaken to our gifts, then we must
>>"see" our abuse issues also. (snip)
>
Hi Susan,
I think Chiron is your genius. Chiron supposedly brought astrology
and healing to the world. The plantoid/asteroid/comet/rock Chiron
traverses between the Saturn orbit and the Uranus orbit and is the
wayshower of how to become unstuck from Saturn. Chiron was half man
and half animal (its not a goat but I think it should have been).
The classical modern day Chiron challenge is the male / female that is
stuck in a marriage that is no longer working. The planets bringing
on the mid-life crisis are starting to stir them. They are receptive
to anything that will free them up a little from the rut they are so
stuck in. They are afraid and change very slowly. However, they are
changing, but their partner is not.
This is one of the most difficult evolutionary transitions to bridge
because the Saturn individual has to break old habits, has to become a
little strange as Uranus awakens (they can no longer be "normal' and
conform.). Saturnian fear runs rampant as they feel their "emotional
security blanket" of conformity is slipping away.
Chiron seems to have a great healing quality that makes this
transition smoother and less fearful. Chiron bridges Saturn and
Uranus and makes the transition less like jumping off a cliff.
Does this make sense to you, Susan?
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Orion22
>Well, you sound terribly profound and mysterious but apart
>from that your reply isn't all that helpful..
I really wasn't very helpful. But I was honest.
>Are you telling me that you have access to some divine
>dimentions of the Universe? A kind of spiritual cosmic Web
>which sends you personal e-mails?
No, 9th house describes the motives of our spirit guides. They are
real, you know. They are not just a squiggly marks in the top right
part of your astrology chart. They exist. They are accessible. They
didn't show up in our charts by accident.
>And if I only cared to
>look at my chart, I'd find my very own cosmic guide ready to
>deliver his wisdom free of charge...O.K. His name is Mr.
>Pluto.
>Steven, my Mr. Pluto Guide is counjunct my Moon in Leo: I am
>waiting for his message or yours...care to help?
Are you telling me that your Pluto / Moon conj is in the 9th house?
If so, that's scary - even to me.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Heather
miracat <miramoor...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message news:38a139f2...@usw-ex0109-069.remarq.com...
> Well, you sound terribly profound and mysterious but apart
> from that your reply isn't all that helpful...
> Are you telling me that you have access to some divine
> dimentions of the Universe? A kind of spiritual cosmic Web
> which sends you personal e-mails? And if I only cared to
> look at my chart, I'd find my very own cosmic guide ready to
> deliver his wisdom free of charge...O.K. His name is Mr.
> Pluto.
> Steven, my Mr. Pluto Guide is counjunct my Moon in Leo: I am
> waiting for his message or yours...care to help?
>
>
Heather
to the ruler of one's 9th house and what its aspects are or what
exactly are you trying to say? I have an empty 9th house.
And why is Pluto/moon in the 9th
so darn scary? I have known many people with Pluto/moons.
it hasn't been a picnic for any of them but why is
the 9th singled out?
For the record.... I don't believe in Guides.... I believe we guide ourselves
by tapping into our own inner voice. Is your Guide encouraging
co-dependency? <wink>
Heather
Orion22 <rs...@javanet.com> wrote in message news:39937db4...@news.javanet.com...
> >On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:48:57 CST, miracat <miramoor...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Well, you sound terribly profound and mysterious but apart
> >from that your reply isn't all that helpful..
>
> I really wasn't very helpful. But I was honest.
>
> >Are you telling me that you have access to some divine
> >dimentions of the Universe? A kind of spiritual cosmic Web
> >which sends you personal e-mails?
>
> No, 9th house describes the motives of our spirit guides. They are
> real, you know. They are not just a squiggly marks in the top right
> part of your astrology chart. They exist. They are accessible. They
> didn't show up in our charts by accident.
>
> >And if I only cared to
> >look at my chart, I'd find my very own cosmic guide ready to
> >deliver his wisdom free of charge...O.K. His name is Mr.
> >Pluto.
> >Steven, my Mr. Pluto Guide is counjunct my Moon in Leo: I am
> >waiting for his message or yours...care to help?
>
spyr...@webtv.net
>No, 9th house describes the motives of our
> spirit guides. They are real, you know. They
> are not just a squiggly marks in the top right
> part of your astrology chart. They exist. They
> are accessible. They didn't show up in our
> charts by accident.
That's so neat :) I wouldn't have even thought...where do you find them
in your chart? And in what ways does the 9th help you understand them?
Angie
miracat
Happy?
Orion22
<fempr...@nospammhotmail.com> wrote:
>Stephen you're still being cryptic about your "guides"... are you referring
>to the ruler of one's 9th house and what its aspects are or what
>exactly are you trying to say? I have an empty 9th house.
>And why is Pluto/moon in the 9th
>so darn scary? I have known many people with Pluto/moons.
>it hasn't been a picnic for any of them but why is
>the 9th singled out?
>
>For the record.... I don't believe in Guides.... I believe we guide ourselves
>by tapping into our own inner voice. Is your Guide encouraging
>co-dependency? <wink>
>
Of course there is nothing "scary" about Pluto / Moon in any sign or
any house. Leo on the 9th cusp is my favorite sign for the 9th cusp.
However, if Miracat's Pluto / Moon conjunction is in the 9th, then my
guides just pulled off letting their presence be known - publically.
I still don't know if her Pluto has anything to do with guides until
she says it is in the 9th house.
The cryptic message was important for Pluto in 9th in Leo because 9th
house Pluto's "guide"ance will not normally act consciously through
the native, and in Leo, will like dramatic powerful demonstration of
their messages. However, that's not how my guides normally work. Thus
the slight "scary"-ness to me when they did act that way?
Like you, I feel it is important to integrate all aspects of my being
- as myself. Ultimately, this is the truth anyway since the inner
and the outer are ONE. Ultimately the physical and the spiritual are
ONE, also. However, until the ascention process is complete, I have
experienced that the planets in the 9th house, and (less clearly) the
planetary ruler of the 9th cusp, ALSO represent real incarnate people
somewhere in this Galaxy that will communicate with us if we let them.
The sign on the 9th house cusp represents the general category of
disincarnate spirit guides (our "ancestry" if you will) that we all
have in the astral plane - and the specific vibrational message or
motive they have is described by the sign on the 9th house cusp.
I appreciate your question, because others may have interpreted the
"scary" statement in my post the same way you did.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
miracat
like because in the left hand corner of my chart there's
just planet symbols and zodiac signs...Very plain...I'd love
to be able to spot one of those Guide-guys but I need to
know where to look...
If it's in the 9th, I'm pretty well sorted as I have the Sun
there and the ruler of my chart aswell (which happens to
also be the ruler of my sun sign). Pluto and his lady the
Moon are co-habiting in the 11th.
Seriously, I'd just like to know if you can advise on any
book or review that might expand on the very interesting
comments you gave on Pluto conj North Node.If you have
effectively worked all of that stuff yourself, I suggest
that YOU write something on the subject but grounded in
astrological knowledge and cut out some of the
Guides-new-age stuff...
miracat
do you make of the 12th?
Heather
yammer at me till I tell them to shut up? <s>
Heather
Orion22 <rs...@javanet.com> wrote in message news:3994d2e9....@news.javanet.com...
Orion22
<miramoor...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>Stop being clever Steven and tell me what these guys look
>like because in the left hand corner of my chart there's
>just planet symbols and zodiac signs...Very plain...I'd love
>to be able to spot one of those Guide-guys but I need to
>know where to look...
>If it's in the 9th, I'm pretty well sorted as I have the Sun
>there and the ruler of my chart aswell (which happens to
>also be the ruler of my sun sign). Pluto and his lady the
>Moon are co-habiting in the 11th.
>Seriously, I'd just like to know if you can advise on any
>book or review that might expand on the very interesting
>comments you gave on Pluto conj North Node.If you have
>effectively worked all of that stuff yourself, I suggest
>that YOU write something on the subject but grounded in
>astrological knowledge and cut out some of the
>Guides-new-age stuff...
>
>
Hi Mira,
There is no book even close.
A book written as you suggest would cover significantly less than 25%
of our life experiences.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Orion22
<fempr...@nospammhotmail.com> wrote:
>yeah well I have Gemini on the 9th.... so what... my guides are gonna
>yammer at me till I tell them to shut up? <s>
>
You are getting the hang of this "guide" thing. Guess how they are
going to counsel through you. So now look at your Mercury to see
further on same.
Last, but not least, look at hexagram #10 in the I-ching and you will
see the type of situation which is your gift to be counselled and to
counsel. Don't ask me how I know this - it is a secret. I assure you
it is equally as scientifically based as astrology - and more
comprehensive.
Regards,
Stephen
eve nshali
>On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 14:50:44 CST, "Heather"
><fempr...@nospammhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>yeah well I have Gemini on the 9th.... so what... my guides are gonna
>>yammer at me till I tell them to shut up? <s>
>>
>
>You are getting the hang of this "guide" thing. Guess how they are
>going to counsel through you. So now look at your Mercury to see
>further on same.
>
So if we want to explore this further we look to 9th cusp sign (mine
aries) and it's ruler (mars/12). I'm imagining a bunch of misguided
knights in tarnished armour. Am I getting it? I'm curious as I've
dabbled a bit with guides but I can't quite take it seriously.
Wouldn't want to delude myself!
>Last, but not least, look at hexagram #10 in the I-ching and you will
>see the type of situation which is your gift to be counselled and to
>counsel. Don't ask me how I know this - it is a secret. I assure you
>it is equally as scientifically based as astrology - and more
>comprehensive.
>
A secret, eh? Special knowledge from your guides? If it's secret it
must be cuz you wanna make money out of it or is it too complex for we
lesser beings? ;-)
>
>Regards,
>
>Stephen
>
miracat
pocket calculator ?
My name is not Mira.
miracat
old turtle
> So if we want to explore this further we look to 9th cusp sign (mine
> aries) and it's ruler (mars/12). I'm imagining a bunch of misguided
> knights in tarnished armour. Am I getting it?
I have aries on the 9th too, with the house itself empty.
Mars is at 0 cancer in the 11th. I'm having a hard time with this guide
thing, but misguided knights sounds right <g>
Heather
Orion22 <rs...@javanet.com> wrote in message > You are getting the hang of this "guide" thing. Guess how they are
> going to counsel through you. So now look at your Mercury to see
> further on same.
Mercury is in Virgo in the 12th trine the moon in the 8th trine Saturn
in the 4th. Mercury is also semi-square Neptune in the second
which is why I say I listen to my inner voice and it never lets
me down. Quasi-psychic if you will....
I do counsel others... have my whole life. I always figured it was
my unspoken duty to help others in crisis.
>
> Last, but not least, look at hexagram #10 in the I-ching and you will
> see the type of situation which is your gift to be counselled and to
> counsel. Don't ask me how I know this - it is a secret. I assure you
> it is equally as scientifically based as astrology - and more
> comprehensive.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen
>
Heather
miracat <miramoor...@hotmail.com.invalid
> My name is not Mira.
Now who's being secretive? :-)
Orion22
wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 17:35:37 CST, rs...@javanet.com (Orion22) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 14:50:44 CST, "Heather"
>><fempr...@nospammhotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>yeah well I have Gemini on the 9th.... so what... my guides are gonna
>>>yammer at me till I tell them to shut up? <s>
>>>
>>
>>You are getting the hang of this "guide" thing. Guess how they are
>>going to counsel through you. So now look at your Mercury to see
>>further on same.
>>
>So if we want to explore this further we look to 9th cusp sign (mine
>aries) and it's ruler (mars/12). I'm imagining a bunch of misguided
>knights in tarnished armour. Am I getting it? I'm curious as I've
>dabbled a bit with guides but I can't quite take it seriously.
>Wouldn't want to delude myself!
Keep in mind that spirit guides are there for your spiritual
evolution. So in that sense they are all the same if they are true
spirit guides. Each guide has one or more special gifts (which are
the same as your special gifts) for spiritual counseling. Your
spiritual guide will help you develop the philosophy of life that is
specifically designed for your spiritual growth.
In physical terms, Aries is the warrior. In spiritual terms, Aries is
the Shaman with a gifted awareness and gifted harmony with the
elemental energies of Nature.
Aries on the 9th cusp is another one of my favorite signs on the 9th.
The spiritual Aries has a philosophy of polarity within the
comprehensive whole. It is the gift of seeing the polarity energies
within Nature and seeing how the polarities fit within a harmonious
whole. In this way opposition brings clarity within the whole instead
of either / or, win / lose philosophy. Wonderful gift that is very
useful in all aspects of life.
>>Last, but not least, look at hexagram #10 in the I-ching and you will
>>see the type of situation which is your gift to be counselled and to
>>counsel. Don't ask me how I know this - it is a secret. I assure you
>>it is equally as scientifically based as astrology - and more
>>comprehensive.
>>
>A secret, eh? Special knowledge from your guides? If it's secret it
>must be cuz you wanna make money out of it or is it too complex for we
>lesser beings? ;-)
One of my hardest lessons in sharing is knowing how much information
to share. Opening the floodgate of I-ching information would just be
overwhelming for everyone. Besides, I am somewhat off-topic as it is.
Some interesting transits are in progress - Pluto conj Chiron in Sag,
Ancient philosophical power systems being rediscovered. I think this
is why all of the interest in spirit guides too.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
eve nshali
You're spot on there with the polarity thing, that's why astrology is
so appealing to me. Funnily enough, I read earlier today someone
using the word continuum rather than polarity, to describe the pairs
of opposite signs. That also appeals to me. I mean, sometimes i just
sit there watching the whole spectrum spinning around me. and there's
not just one 12 division 2d circle spinnin neither!
>>>Last, but not least, look at hexagram #10 in the I-ching and you will
>>>see the type of situation which is your gift to be counselled and to
>>>counsel. Don't ask me how I know this - it is a secret. I assure you
>>>it is equally as scientifically based as astrology - and more
>>>comprehensive.
>>>
>>A secret, eh? Special knowledge from your guides? If it's secret it
>>must be cuz you wanna make money out of it or is it too complex for we
>>lesser beings? ;-)
>
>One of my hardest lessons in sharing is knowing how much information
>to share. Opening the floodgate of I-ching information would just be
>overwhelming for everyone. Besides, I am somewhat off-topic as it is.
>
Fair enough, I was being cheeky anyway.
>
>Some interesting transits are in progress - Pluto conj Chiron in Sag,
>Ancient philosophical power systems being rediscovered. I think this
>is why all of the interest in spirit guides too.
>
Square my pluto, too. With a trine to my moon soon!!! yay
Thanks Stephen
>Regards,
>
>Stephen Crowl
>
eve nshali
<oldt...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> So if we want to explore this further we look to 9th cusp sign (mine
>> aries) and it's ruler (mars/12). I'm imagining a bunch of misguided
>> knights in tarnished armour. Am I getting it?
>
>I have aries on the 9th too, with the house itself empty.
>Mars is at 0 cancer in the 11th. I'm having a hard time with this guide
>thing, but misguided knights sounds right <g>
>
Mine's empty, though I have moon in aries about 3 dg from the cusp.
Martian guides are just a bit daunting, then again I've had daydreams
(when I'm feeling powerless) of riding a massive horse, dressed in
armour, with a magic sword that strikes down those with evil in their
hearts. Scary, it is. I think my moon sq mars in mutual reception is
mixed up in this. Cancer asc adds a bit...
Someone else said shamen are aries type dudes too, so maybe we can get
away from the knights. Mine are languishing in a dungeon or maybe
eaten by dragons...
ToMoondanz
from seeing mine:) 9th empty with Cap Cusp. Saturn in Capricorn conj MC and
widely conj Jupiter (also tri Ven and Quincunx NNode).
I'd appreciate any insight...and I also read the I Ching.
moondanz
miracat
since you insist: it's Catherine.
Steve G.
in anything that doesn't make logical sense me. But I also have Cancer on the
9th with the Moon in the sixth and the Sun in Virgo, so I have good reason.
Steve
^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ The Elf, the squeaker of
chew toys, the sniffer of armpits, Donna Reed with testicles. (You can Email me
if you take off my undies)
Orion22
wrote:
I could not see my guides at first either. In fact, I did not know
until recent years that my guides were very active with me during my
teens.
Seeing my power animal wasn't easy for me either. I used the active
imagination techniques in a book called "Inner Guide Meditation" by
Edward Steinbrecher to find my power animal because I could not see my
guides. At one point I was supposed to have a hold on the animal and
I did. But I still couldn't see it. I got really angry that could
not see it but I could feel it. I was hit by this blast of energy and
my power animal appeared before me - a 14 foot tall kodiak bear
towering over me - and he was not in a good mood. However, he did not
scare me, and I have found out that he represents "knowledge".
I don't recommend people get all compulsively involved in "Inner Guide
Meditation". Just find your guide and /or your power animal and put
the book aside.
Saturn in Capricorn is tough no matter where it is in your chart. It
is like a hole within a hole. When you come out of the hole all you
see is the same thing as was in the hole. So it is easy to think that
is all there is in terms of experiences.
I recommend finding a really good spiritual teacher to help you. I
recommend that everyone get help in spiritual matters, but
particularly Saturn in Cap people. There are very few people who can
make it to their highest vibration without a teacher.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
old turtle
> Ancient philosophical power systems being rediscovered.
This one concerns me a bit more than whether or who my spirit guides are
because these two are sitting almost smack on my natal Saturn on the
cusp of the fifth. In real life, I seem to be revisiting (not
necessarily voluntarily <g>) how I parent my kids. Two of them are in
their early 20s, so this surprises me a bit. Maybe a chance to make
things right..?
any comments welcome
5 may 57 11:35 am, petersburg, va
doovinator
is also taurus and has lately been talking along those lines (he's quite
a bit older and has been having some health problems, but your words
could have easily been his).
DJ
Sharyn0761
need for guidance I just kind of let go of the ego, open up and it flows on in.
There's no specific 'guide' or personality that I can discern. Maybe I just
don't recognize it, or maybe there's no necessity for it in my experience, I
don't know. (Gemni rules my 9th, with venus/gem and merc/can placed there. Merc
is in grand trine to moon/nep scorp 1st and chiron/pisces 5th...maybe the lines
of communication are easily available, yet their origins shrouded by neptune's
influence?)
I want to address the Saturn in Capricorn comment. In my natal, it's placed in
the 4th conjunct jup in aquarius (which squares my scorp moon in 1st) and
opposite my Cancer sun. Last time I saw my dad I was about 7 years old (he's an
alcoholic-easy to guess when looking at my chart, eh?- ) and his involvement in
my life was blocked by his irresponsibility/lifestyle and my mother's
determination that my brother and I wouldn't grow up with that kind of hell
surrounding us (of course, we just had a different version :-). So obviously
I've had 'Daddy' issues all my life, been attracted to older men, had all the
self esteem problems that go along with the sun/saturn thing and all the lack
of percieved love in the early life that comes with saturn in the 4th and
jupiter squares to a scorpio moon. Now, having said that, let me also say that
I now believe this to be the biggest blessing in my chart! First of all, Saturn
in Capricorn is in it's dignity for good reason in Capricorn, it functions very
well and in a very pure manner. What I mean is, (and forgive me for
personifying here, but it's easier to describe it this way) when I accept the
lessons it has to teach me, then saturn is very wise and kind to me. Contrary
to being a 'hole within a hole,' it's a rock to cling to in a raging emotional
sea, at least for me. It keeps my jup/moon tendancy to over-enthuse and make
grandiose plans in check by reminding me of the practical demands of the dreams
I want to persue, and it keeps my feet on the ground. I find as I get older and
get practiced at dealing with Saturn issues that I sense them coming early on
and work on them before things get acute; this way, the losses and setbacks
still come along, but I am prepared for them and I have lived long enough to
see the good that comes out of these periods, so I don't sweat it so much. I
feel I've been given a unique opportunity to develop emotional self-sufficiency
and basic self confidence, and to make peace with the 'male' side of my psyche
that only comes from a lack of a father figure. I never had anyone to depend on
in this way, so I was forced to depend on myself and in many ways, to be my own
father/parent. I may very well need a spritual teacher to 'make it to my
highest vibration' as you say Stephen, but I believe Saturn to actually be one
of those teachers.
Sharyn
Orion22
<miramoor...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>If you associate the 9th house with spiritual guides, what
>do you make of the 12th?
>
>
The 12th house is the Sacred Dream which identifies the physical
experiences we need to have here on planet Earth in order to "know"
the knowledge we came here to learn.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Heather
than Saturn in Cappy is being referred to as a "hole" .
I usually hear that from Neptunian types that can't
see the mack truck coming down the highway until it smacks
them between the eyes. I'll keep my Saturn in Cappy
thank you very much. :-)
Heather
Sharyn0761 <shary...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20000813222830...@ng-df1.aol.com...
Sharyn0761
Sharyn
TrplDubl
Ray Murphy
----------
In article <04f1c7f1...@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com>, miracat
<miramoor...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>25% ? Why 25% ? How did you come to this figure? Got a
>pocket calculator ?
>My name is not Mira.
>
>
>* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
>related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is
>Beautiful
REPLY
Well how about giving us all a name to work with?
Ray Murphy
miracat
Look: " Saturn identifies the physical experiences we need
to have here on Earth in order to know the knowlege we came
here to learn". See?
So what has the Sacred Dream more to add to this? And where
does that leave the 12th?
Orion22
>On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:44:39 CST, miracat <miramoor...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>Well, in plain astrological parlance it's name is Saturn...
>Look: " Saturn identifies the physical experiences we need
>to have here on Earth in order to know the knowlege we came
>here to learn". See?
>So what has the Sacred Dream more to add to this? And where
>does that leave the 12th?
>
>
I am glad to find an expert (in plain astrological parlance) on the
knowledge we came here to learn. Would you share with us how the
spiritual planet Saturn functions to identify the physical experiences
we need to have here on Earth in order for us to "know" the knowledge
Orion22
>I second that, Heather :-) Hope your mom's getting along alright.
>Sharyn
>
><< I usually hear that from Neptunian types that can't
>see the mack truck coming down the highway until it smacks
>them between the eyes. I'll keep my Saturn in Cappy
>thank you very much. :-)
>
>Heather
Sharyn,
Thanks for sharing some positive aspects of Saturn in Capricorn as
well as some negative.
However, I am not pleased that you guys pulled my comment about a
"hole within a hole" out of context - which is ascention and spirit
guides. It would be helpful to us all if shared how Saturn in
Capricorn has helped you in your spiritual endeavors.
I would like to add that the primary indicators of Saturn in Capricorn
gone negative is "denial" and "army gathering to support continued
denial".
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Sharyn0761
Thanks for sharing some positive aspects of Saturn in Capricorn as
well as some negative.
However, I am not pleased that you guys pulled my comment about a
"hole within a hole" out of context - which is ascention and spirit
guides. >>
First of all, here is what you said:
<<Saturn in Capricorn is tough no matter where it is in your chart. It
is like a hole within a hole. When you come out of the hole all you
see is the same thing as was in the hole. So it is easy to think that
is all there is in terms of experiences.>>
I realize the thread had turned to discussion of spirit guides, but that
statement pretty much stands on it's own, so I don't see how it was taken out
of context. If that isn't what you meant, then why don't you say what you
mean??
<<It would be helpful to us all if shared how Saturn in
Capricorn has helped you in your spiritual endeavors.>>
Well, in my case, Saturn in Capricorn, especially quincunx Uranus and conjunct
Jupiter, helps me to realize that, while the concerns and lessons of the
material world are unpredictable and often unpleasant, they must be dealt with
and are as sacred and necessary for spiritual ascension as any experiences
found in other planes of existence; perhaps even more so. Saturn in Capricorn
indicates a realization that you get out of life exactly what you put into it,
and people with this position tend to take full responsibility for the
conditions of their lives. I know I do. I believe Saturn teaches me that
personal accountability and responsibility are the foudations of spiritual
evolution.
<<I would like to add that the primary indicators of Saturn in Capricorn
gone negative is "denial" and "army gathering to support continued
denial".
Regards,
Stephen Crowl>>
Well, since I am a 1st house Moon/Neptune, I may very well be in denial (if
that is indeed what you meant, and it's hard to tell because your
communications in this thread have been rather obscure) but exactly what do you
think I'm in denial about?
<< I recommend that everyone get help in spiritual matters, but particularly
Saturn in Cap people.>>
Are you saying that Saturn in Cap indicates spiritual blindness or handicap
simply by virtue of Saturn in Capricorn in the natal chart?? Gee, Stephen, you
seem to have some great spiritual insight that the rest of us plebs aren't
privy to. Why don't you share it with us?
Sharyn
>>
Dear Sir: I am seated in the smallest room of the house. I have your letter
before me; soon, it will be behind me.
miracat
done beautifully by astrologers such as Liz Greene or Bil
Tierney. Read their books.
As far as spirituality is concerned, it is a question of
awareness which is experienced individually rather than
found in an astrological chart...although I grant you that
some charts LEND themselves better toward higher awareness
than others.
Using "spiritual" vocabulary to describe a placement is
risky if not fancy since you have no idea wether or not the
native has actually reached that stage yet or wether he/she
ever will...Better stick to conventional knowledge when
sharing astrological ideas !
Pete Phoenix
want me to hold your coat, Sharyn? :)
Pete
>Sharyn0761 replied within text:
eve nshali
(Sharyn0761) wrote:
><< Sharyn,
>
>Thanks for sharing some positive aspects of Saturn in Capricorn as
>well as some negative.
>
>However, I am not pleased that you guys pulled my comment about a
>"hole within a hole" out of context - which is ascention and spirit
>guides. >>
>
>First of all, here is what you said:
>
><<Saturn in Capricorn is tough no matter where it is in your chart. It
>is like a hole within a hole. When you come out of the hole all you
>see is the same thing as was in the hole. So it is easy to think that
>is all there is in terms of experiences.>>
>
My saturn is a hole within a hole. too. Isn't that just saturn?
>I realize the thread had turned to discussion of spirit guides, but that
>statement pretty much stands on it's own, so I don't see how it was taken out
>of context. If that isn't what you meant, then why don't you say what you
>mean??
>
><<It would be helpful to us all if shared how Saturn in
>Capricorn has helped you in your spiritual endeavors.>>
>
>Well, in my case, Saturn in Capricorn, especially quincunx Uranus and conjunct
>Jupiter, helps me to realize that, while the concerns and lessons of the
>material world are unpredictable and often unpleasant, they must be dealt with
>and are as sacred and necessary for spiritual ascension as any experiences
>found in other planes of existence; perhaps even more so. Saturn in Capricorn
>indicates a realization that you get out of life exactly what you put into it,
>and people with this position tend to take full responsibility for the
>conditions of their lives. I know I do. I believe Saturn teaches me that
>personal accountability and responsibility are the foudations of spiritual
>evolution.
>
I agree with your comment about the material world being sacred etc.
I don't have saturn in cap to teach me that, rather I think it's a
combo of virgo sun, aquarius saturn and 5 water planets.
><<I would like to add that the primary indicators of Saturn in Capricorn
>gone negative is "denial" and "army gathering to support continued
>denial".
>
>Regards,
>
>Stephen Crowl>>
>
>Well, since I am a 1st house Moon/Neptune, I may very well be in denial (if
>that is indeed what you meant, and it's hard to tell because your
>communications in this thread have been rather obscure) but exactly what do you
>think I'm in denial about?
>
><< I recommend that everyone get help in spiritual matters, but particularly
>Saturn in Cap people.>>
>
>Are you saying that Saturn in Cap indicates spiritual blindness or handicap
>simply by virtue of Saturn in Capricorn in the natal chart?? Gee, Stephen, you
>seem to have some great spiritual insight that the rest of us plebs aren't
>privy to. Why don't you share it with us?
>
>Sharyn
>
While Stephen may have some good insights to offer, it seems he has
taken on the most negative view of saturn/cap and the earth plane. It
can be difficult with saturn in cap, I know a lot of people with it,
most of them have severe doubts about their ability to 'make it' or
are consumed by climbing the ladder to get approval. A few seem very
spiritually oriented in the manner you describe and I've learned about
the physical/spiritual balance from one in particular.
spyr...@webtv.net
have no idea what I'm supposed to be looking for. I even have Leo on my
9th, and although you explained that quite a bit, I still am
stumped....my 9th house is empty, except for my Vertex, and my sun is in
the 11th, in Scorpio, and my Saturn is in Cancer if that
matters....could you please explain this to me? Angie
Sharyn0761
I don't have saturn in cap to teach me that, rather I think it's a
combo of virgo sun, aquarius saturn and 5 water planets. >>
Interesting, and similar to mine: sat conjouncy joop in Aquarius, 4 water
planets
(hehe, Pete, ya smarty)
Sharyn
Oh, so you English types thought you could fool us with your
knees-bent-running-about-advancing-behavior!
Keera A. Fox
> While Stephen may have some good insights to offer, it seems he has
> taken on the most negative view of saturn/cap and the earth plane. It
> can be difficult with saturn in cap, I know a lot of people with it,
> most of them have severe doubts about their ability to 'make it' or
> are consumed by climbing the ladder to get approval. A few seem very
> spiritually oriented in the manner you describe and I've learned about
> the physical/spiritual balance from one in particular.
Thanks for the above, eve! I was starting to wonder about Stephen's take
on Saturn in Capricorn. I have it in my first house, dispositing both my
Jupiter and my Venus in same, and opposing my Mars. Saturn through my
12th over my Sun, opposing my Moon was rough, but Saturn through my 1st
house was bliss. Saturn's been instrumental in helping me survive some
very trying times. If Stephen wants my spiritual view on Saturn, he can
ask nicely. Else it's a secret. ;-)
--
***** Keera in Norway ***** | alt.astrology's Astrology 101
* Think Big. Shrink to fit. * | now in session
http://home.online.no/~kafox | home.online.no/~kafox/Astro101
Orion22
(Sharyn0761) wrote:
><< Sharyn,
>
>Thanks for sharing some positive aspects of Saturn in Capricorn as
>well as some negative.
>
>However, I am not pleased that you guys pulled my comment about a
>"hole within a hole" out of context - which is ascention and spirit
>guides. >>
>
>First of all, here is what you said:
>
><<Saturn in Capricorn is tough no matter where it is in your chart. It
>is like a hole within a hole. When you come out of the hole all you
>see is the same thing as was in the hole. So it is easy to think that
>is all there is in terms of experiences.>>
>I realize the thread had turned to discussion of spirit guides, but that
>statement pretty much stands on it's own, so I don't see how it was taken out
>of context. If that isn't what you meant, then why don't you say what you
>mean??
The context of a "hole within a hole" is "going beyond" the Saturnian
collective unconsciousness. There is just no way Saturn is going to
help that process any more than Uranus is going to help in "going
beyond" Uranus - same with Neptune. Were talking about "going beyond"
all three of these consciousness levels. These are real realities and
each must be integrated and healed before we can go beyond them. You
can't awaken to the higher vibration until you pass the tests of the
lower vibrations.
For some people it is okay to remain in Saturn in Cap consciousness.
For others, it is not. They have forces that are pulling them out of
the Saturn in Cap. They want to understand what is happening. They
want to know how the process works so that they can heal and feel that
it is okay to "go beyond" Saturn. For these people Saturn in Cap is a
"hole within a hole" that is keeping them from awakening to higher
vibrations.
><<It would be helpful to us all if shared how Saturn in
>Capricorn has helped you in your spiritual endeavors.>>
>
>Well, in my case, Saturn in Capricorn, especially quincunx Uranus and conjunct
>Jupiter, helps me to realize that, while the concerns and lessons of the
>material world are unpredictable and often unpleasant, they must be dealt with
>and are as sacred and necessary for spiritual ascension as any experiences
>found in other planes of existence; perhaps even more so. Saturn in Capricorn
>indicates a realization that you get out of life exactly what you put into it,
>and people with this position tend to take full responsibility for the
>conditions of their lives. I know I do. I believe Saturn teaches me that
>personal accountability and responsibility are the foudations of spiritual
>evolution.
>
><<I would like to add that the primary indicators of Saturn in Capricorn
>gone negative is "denial" and "army gathering to support continued
>denial".
>
>Regards,
>
>Stephen Crowl>>
>
>Well, since I am a 1st house Moon/Neptune, I may very well be in denial (if
>that is indeed what you meant, and it's hard to tell because your
>communications in this thread have been rather obscure) but exactly what do you
>think I'm in denial about?
See the original context of a "hole within a hole".
>
><< I recommend that everyone get help in spiritual matters, but particularly
>Saturn in Cap people.>>
>
>Are you saying that Saturn in Cap indicates spiritual blindness or handicap
>simply by virtue of Saturn in Capricorn in the natal chart?? Gee, Stephen, you
>seem to have some great spiritual insight that the rest of us plebs aren't
>privy to. Why don't you share it with us?
>
>Sharyn
>
By the way, taking full responsibily for your posts would require you
to post your real name. Otherwise your words about responsibility and
accountability are hollow.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
Orion22
wrote:
>>
>While Stephen may have some good insights to offer, it seems he has
>taken on the most negative view of saturn/cap and the earth plane. It
>can be difficult with saturn in cap, I know a lot of people with it,
>most of them have severe doubts about their ability to 'make it' or
>are consumed by climbing the ladder to get approval. A few seem very
>spiritually oriented in the manner you describe and I've learned about
>the physical/spiritual balance from one in particular.
>>
I give up. What do you guys have against spiritual evolution here in
this newsgroup?
Stephen Crowl
Orion22
>I'm not going to spell out what has already been done and
>done beautifully by astrologers such as Liz Greene or Bil
>Tierney. Read their books.
>As far as spirituality is concerned, it is a question of
>awareness which is experienced individually rather than
>found in an astrological chart...although I grant you that
>some charts LEND themselves better toward higher awareness
>than others.
>Using "spiritual" vocabulary to describe a placement is
>risky if not fancy since you have no idea wether or not the
>native has actually reached that stage yet or wether he/she
> ever will...Better stick to conventional knowledge when
>sharing astrological ideas !
>
Catherine,
That's projection of the highest order. Do you have any idea how many
people feel that way about the traditional language of astrology. It
is you that is uncomfortable with an expanded language. In your heart
you know where I am headed and it scares you. You don't have to
dabble with forces that are over your head you know.
You need to look at your motives for posting to a thread about "going
beyond" Saturnian consciousness and "awakening to the power plane"
(Pluto conj North Node). Your intent looks like "Saturnian darkness"
from where I am setting.
By the way, Liz Greene wrote "Saturn - A New Look at an Old Devil",
and "The Outer Planets, the Astrology of the Collective". She places
Saturn as the "Collective Unconscious" (animal unconsciousness).
My intent here is to expand the language of astrology to include the
full spectrum of life experiences. It will happen whether you like it
or not.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
doovinator
DJ
eve nshali
>I think it's a whole within a whole.
>
>DJ
>
What he said!
eve nshali
Nothing. I'm not into heirarchical or linear orders of it, though.
By the way, where's your saturn? I read that book about guides you
mentioned in 1983. My 'spiritual evolution' seemed to start from
pluto and work it's way in, but that's just me.
eve nshali
That's simply not true. People can jump in and out of all those
levels. They may not yet have integrated them wholly but they are
able to function in those levels and bring insight into normal
awareness from them. Over time one gains an ease of shifting gears
that comes with getting to know these levels more clearly.
>For some people it is okay to remain in Saturn in Cap consciousness.
>For others, it is not. They have forces that are pulling them out of
>the Saturn in Cap. They want to understand what is happening. They
>want to know how the process works so that they can heal and feel that
>it is okay to "go beyond" Saturn. For these people Saturn in Cap is a
>"hole within a hole" that is keeping them from awakening to higher
>vibrations.
>
I gotta know where that saturn of yours is...
Who decided that? And what has it really got to do with the
discussion?
>Regards,
>
>Stephen Crowl
>
Keera A. Fox
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:18:47 CST, evn...@nevermind.net (eve nshali)
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >While Stephen may have some good insights to offer, it seems he has
> >taken on the most negative view of saturn/cap and the earth plane. It
> >can be difficult with saturn in cap, I know a lot of people with it,
> >most of them have severe doubts about their ability to 'make it' or
> >are consumed by climbing the ladder to get approval. A few seem very
> >spiritually oriented in the manner you describe and I've learned about
> >the physical/spiritual balance from one in particular.
> >>
>
> I give up. What do you guys have against spiritual evolution here in
> this newsgroup?
Your attitude. You may not like to think so, but your arrogance is
showing.
I, for one, do not find anything spiritual about any system that singles
out a planet, whichever it is, and uses that to keep people down (by
telling them they're stuck because of that planet). That is not helpful
and if it isn't helpful, it isn't spiritual.
Sharyn0761
and "The Outer Planets, the Astrology of the Collective". She places
Saturn as the "Collective Unconscious" (animal unconsciousness). >>
No, she doesn't. I have that book, and what she says is that Saturn builds
barriers to the collective, and tries, in fact, to keep us seperate from that
barrier and firmly in the material world. She says that contacts to the outer,
transcendental planets indicate cracks in that barrier that allow us to glimpse
the collective emotional, collective mind etc., sometimes showing as genius
and/or madness.
Sharyn0761
<< Subject: Re: Saturn in cap
From: evn...@nevermind.net (eve nshali)
Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2000 7:45 AM
Message-id: <399bde18...@news.dingoblue.net.au>
>>
Oh, so you English types thought you could fool us with your
knees-bent-running-about-advancing-behavior!
Sharyn0761
to post your real name. Otherwise your words about responsibility and
accountability are hollow.
Regards,
Stephen Crowl
>>
Stephen, I have refered to articles I've written in my posts here at the board,
and these articles are followed by my real name. I am certainly NOT afraid to
stand behind my posts or anything else I write or say. What has that got to do
with your misconception of Saturn as "Universal Consciousness," and your
misinterpretation of what Liz Greene wrote? I think you ought to do a little
honest research before you shoot your mouth off. I doubt anyone here has
anything against spiritual evolution, but one thing is for sure; you have
enlightened no one with your vagueries and arrogant attitude.
Sharyn Smith
Orion22
wrote:
>Orion22 <rs...@javanet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:18:47 CST, evn...@nevermind.net (eve nshali)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> >While Stephen may have some good insights to offer, it seems he has
>> >taken on the most negative view of saturn/cap and the earth plane. It
>> >can be difficult with saturn in cap, I know a lot of people with it,
>> >most of them have severe doubts about their ability to 'make it' or
>> >are consumed by climbing the ladder to get approval. A few seem very
>> >spiritually oriented in the manner you describe and I've learned about
>> >the physical/spiritual balance from one in particular.
>> >>
>>
>> I give up. What do you guys have against spiritual evolution here in
>> this newsgroup?
>
>Your attitude. You may not like to think so, but your arrogance is
>showing.
That is unbelievable projection on your part. Who is trying to block
new information from coming in here. Talk about arrogance. You
haven't even seen what I have to offer and you have already judged me
as unworthy of presenting new information.
>I, for one, do not find anything spiritual about any system that singles
>out a planet, whichever it is, and uses that to keep people down (by
>telling them they're stuck because of that planet). That is not helpful
>and if it isn't helpful, it isn't spiritual.
I have only spoken the truth. You people have added the "judgement"
yourselves. Go back and look at my posts.
Pete Phoenix
> Interesting, and similar to mine: sat conjouncy joop in Aquarius, 4
water
> planets
>
> (hehe, Pete, ya smarty)
>
Huh? *Now* what 'd I do??
I *never* say "conjouncey". But I will now!
"Yes, Mr. Hand. I have Joop conjouncey Neppy in Aqua. Work *that* out!"
hehe........
> Oh, so you English types thought you could fool us with your
> knees-bent-running-about-advancing-behavior!
> Sharyn
What? Us 'poor Brits' fool you sophisticated yanks?
Oh, yeah!
*And* we have a nicer flag. ( runs for cover......!)
Pete
"Cry God for Harry, England, and Saint Geoooooorge!!!"
Pete Phoenix
> What he said!
Me? I think it's a whole lot of hole.
So speaks Saturn in Scorpio, for whom there's no hope.
I hope.
hehe...
Pete Phoenix
( My real name? Maybe. It's only information. )
Orion22
wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 05:59:54 CST, rs...@javanet.com (Orion22) wrote:
You haven't done much work with Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD)
have you. Look in their charts. Notice how many people have planets
which in their own sign. I call them "island consciousness states".
And, yes, of course people heal over time. Yet, why deny that it is
difficult. Denial is a disease.
>>By the way, taking full responsibily for your posts would require you
>>to post your real name. Otherwise your words about responsibility and
>>accountability are hollow.
>>
>Who decided that? And what has it really got to do with the
>discussion?
A healed Saturn in Cap will understand.
>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Stephen Crowl
>>
>
eve nshali
<phoen...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> What he said!
>
I was replying to Doov about "a whole within a whole".
Maybe it's a whole lot of wholes within holes within the whole.
So muses saturn in aquarius, wondering how the hole can be separate
from the whole, the edge of the hole is the whole and the whole fills
the hole.
Sharyn0761
"conjunct Jupiter"
yer makin me laugh ya goofy cross-ponder.
Sharyn
<< Subject: Re: Pluto conjunct North Node
From: "Pete Phoenix" phoen...@ntlworld.com
Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2000 4:25 PM
Message-id: <018101c00867$317e7a40$eec8fc3e@oemcomputer>
eve nshali
>On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:59:54 CST, evn...@nevermind.net (eve nshali)
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 05:59:54 CST, rs...@javanet.com (Orion22) wrote:
>>
[snip]
>>>
>>>The context of a "hole within a hole" is "going beyond" the Saturnian
>>>collective unconsciousness. There is just no way Saturn is going to
>>>help that process any more than Uranus is going to help in "going
>>>beyond" Uranus - same with Neptune. Were talking about "going beyond"
>>>all three of these consciousness levels. These are real realities and
>>>each must be integrated and healed before we can go beyond them. You
>>>can't awaken to the higher vibration until you pass the tests of the
>>>lower vibrations.
>>>
>>That's simply not true. People can jump in and out of all those
>>levels. They may not yet have integrated them wholly but they are
>>able to function in those levels and bring insight into normal
>>awareness from them. Over time one gains an ease of shifting gears
>>that comes with getting to know these levels more clearly.
>
>You haven't done much work with Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD)
>have you. Look in their charts. Notice how many people have planets
>which in their own sign. I call them "island consciousness states".
>
And?
Regarding MPD, you seem to be inferring that planets in their own
signs create isolated states of consciousness thus indicating a
tendency to behaving in a way that earns such a label. I have had a
bit to do with MPD people's charts, but I'm not an astrologer. It's a
huge statement you're making and one that deserves further explanation
from you. There would be a very high occurence of such positions,
ergo lots of people with MPD tendencies. Anyone got the math on the
probability of having at least one planet in it's sign? Further,
would having a planet in it's ancient ruler (eg mars in scorpio) mean
you were stuck on an island in the past?
>And, yes, of course people heal over time. Yet, why deny that it is
>difficult. Denial is a disease.
>>
Who said healing wasn't difficult? There's been no denial here, just
different ways of looking at something. I think it's better to have
all the 'parts'of the self (as symbolised by planets) doing what they
can concurrently. After all there's a complex chart configuration,
transits, progressions, lots of movement and change on all levels
going on. It's just a more lateral way of living. One of the
sicknesses of modern society is the lifestyles arising out of the
concept of linear progression. Saturn in cap can portray that kind of
thinking/impulse/motivation. Don't mistake ignorance or disinterest
for denial.
There's no denying that various factors can cause a planet to function
in isolation but as a chart is really a starting point, there will
always be transits that bring opportunities for integration. This is
deep, precise stuff and too difficult to generalise about.
Ah.
Sharyn0761
Sharyn
<< Subject: Re: Saturn in cap
From: evn...@nevermind.net (eve nshali)
Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2000 6:36 PM
Message-id: <399c7620...@news.dingoblue.net.au
Keera A. Fox
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:27:17 CST, ka...@online.no (Keera A. Fox)
> wrote:
>
> >Orion22 <rs...@javanet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:18:47 CST, evn...@nevermind.net (eve nshali)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >While Stephen may have some good insights to offer, it seems he has
> >> >taken on the most negative view of saturn/cap and the earth plane. It
> >> >can be difficult with saturn in cap, I know a lot of people with it,
> >> >most of them have severe doubts about their ability to 'make it' or
> >> >are consumed by climbing the ladder to get approval. A few seem very
> >> >spiritually oriented in the manner you describe and I've learned about
> >> >the physical/spiritual balance from one in particular.
> >>
> >> I give up. What do you guys have against spiritual evolution here in
> >> this newsgroup?
> >
> >Your attitude. You may not like to think so, but your arrogance is
> >showing.
>
> That is unbelievable projection on your part. Who is trying to block
> new information from coming in here. Talk about arrogance. You
> haven't even seen what I have to offer and you have already judged me
> as unworthy of presenting new information.
You are reading far more into my response than I said or meant. I have
never called you unworthy nor would I. I am saying you come across as
arrogant; you've passed judgment yourself, as evidenced in the quote
above where you lump everyone who reads this newsgroup as being against
spiritual evolution.
> >I, for one, do not find anything spiritual about any system that singles
> >out a planet, whichever it is, and uses that to keep people down (by
> >telling them they're stuck because of that planet). That is not helpful
> >and if it isn't helpful, it isn't spiritual.
>
> I have only spoken the truth.
The truth about Saturn in Capricorn, for example? Or the contents of Liz
Green's book? Several of us here, including myself, have called you on
the above without getting any direct answers.
You have to keep in mind that your audience is made up of people from
all sorts of backgrounds, with all sorts of experiences including
spiritual ones, and of all different ages.
I'm pushing 40 and I've been involved in spiritual matters for all of my
adult life. I'm not interested in having my chain yanked. If you have
something to share or teach, then do so. None of this "I have a secret!
Neener neener!" stuff. (Yes, that's how it appears to us.)
> You people have added the "judgement" yourselves. Go back and look at my
> posts.
I've been following this thread from its start.
When more than one person is getting the same impression of a post, then
it's no longer about the recipient(s) but about the delivery. If several
people are having a hard time understanding your posts, then you have to
find a way to express yourself that will get you understood. You can't
keep blaming the reader for the miscommunication, not when several
people hear you the same way.
Your posts have been more vague than explanatory and that's what we're
calling you on.
Pete Phoenix
Sharyn0761 wrote...
> Hahahaha I'm a particularly lousy typist Pete :-) that should have
read
> "conjunct Jupiter"
>
> yer makin me laugh ya goofy cross-ponder.
> Sharyn
Look who's talkin'!
hehe...
Pete
Pete Phoenix
Orion22 wrote...[snip...]
> I have only spoken the truth. You people have added the "judgement"
> yourselves. Go back and look at my posts.
Ahh...now I see what the problem is. Those two little words, " the
truth"
You see Stephen, on this board no-one comes on pushing "the truth".
We offer opinion, experience, views, and advice when asked.
We're sensible enough, the majority of us, to realise that no-one has a
monopoly on "the truth", because we see that we all have our own truth.
We live our truth every day, and that's our Spiritual Evolution
You also have your "truth", and that's fine, but don't be surprised if
others find your attitude a little hard to take. You simply cannot make
negative comments about one planetary position ( Saturn in Capricorn ) -
comments like:
"the primary indicators of Saturn in Capricorn is (sic) 'denial' and
'army gathering to support continued denial' "
- and not expect some people to be affronted by that. I have to say that
in all the 33 yrs I've been studying astrology, I've never seen anyone
with Saturn in Capricorn who has expressed denial any more frequently
than people with other Saturn positions.
You have some interesting things to say on the correlation between
Spirit Guides and the 9th house.
Having been involved in the Spiritualist church on and off for over 20
yrs,and sat in many development classes, I am pretty much acquainted
with the ones who work with me. So I know a little about the subject
myself.
Just be a little less condescending please, and don't make the kind of
blanket statements that will only end up getting you ignored.
Regards...
Pete Phoenix
Pete Phoenix
eve nshali wrote..
> Maybe it's a whole lot of wholes within holes within the whole.
> So muses saturn in aquarius, wondering how the hole can be separate
> from the whole, the edge of the hole is the whole and the whole fills
> the hole.
Hey, Eve...
good luck with your life, honey!
hahahahaha!!!!
Pete
miracat
Quote:"You need to look at your motives for posting to a
thread about going beyond Saturnian consciousness and
Darkness" from where I am sitting."
You can't be sitting at the right place then...My only
motive is to find CLARITY using a common vocabulary until
ALL of us can understand YOUR special brand of spirituality
which, no doubt, you feel is universal and therefore should
be accessible and obvious to the Enlightened.
Although we all believe, I'm sure, on this site, in a
universal and higher consciousness, we also are aware that
it is part of the human condition to be limited by REALITY
most of the time...Going beyond reality (=Saturn) requires
more humility than you seem to have...Try to be clearer and
more humble.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
doovinator
it very well. There's nothing wrong with talking about spirit guides,
and a lot of interesting material there, especially regarding the 9th
and 12th house, but it's not "the truth" for everyone.
Regards,
DJ
Heather
Heather
Pete Phoenix <phoen...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:006f01c00946$de7145e0$c7d4fc3e@oemcomputer...
Sharyn0761
my soul is a sinking boat;
There's a void in my sea where my spirit should be/
in the Capricorn shape of a goat.
*Thank yew, thank yew very much...*
<< Subject: Re: Saturn in cap
From: "Heather" fempr...@nospammhotmail.com
Date: Fri, Aug 18, 2000 10:38 PM
Message-id: <0b91248230313...@msn.com>
Heather
Heather
Sharyn0761 <shary...@aol.comnospamrs> wrote in message news:20000819013305...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
Sharyn0761
Sharyn
*the poet who don't know it*
<< Subject: Re: Saturn in cap
From: "Heather" fempr...@nospammhotmail.com
Date: Sat, Aug 19, 2000 12:39 PM
Message-id: <0b9b953311713...@msn.com>
eve nshali
(Sharyn0761) wrote:
>There's a hole in my holy whole/
>my soul is a sinking boat;
>There's a void in my sea where my spirit should be/
>in the Capricorn shape of a goat.
>
>*Thank yew, thank yew very much...*
>
Appluase and laughs. Have ya found that wandering spirit yet?
Methinks it's run away with mercury!
Sharyn0761
Date: Sat, Aug 19, 2000 8:58 PM
Message-id: <399f00bc...@news.dingoblue.net.au>
:-) Mmm Hmm...or maybe Neptune.
>>