this grand trine synastry-how interpret
~saba gracile~
trine the other one's(the girl's) Pluto. His moon is also conjunction
her Ascendant and his own n.node. Nice one, ey?
Veronica
Jyeshta
Hi Veronica,
Since no one else has replied, I'd say his Moon conjunct her Ascendant
is good, but her Pluto making a grand trine with his Moon Venus trine
is really a mixed bag. I'd want to do a complete work-up with Davison
charts to get a better picture of what's going on.
I don't practice Magi astrology (although I did read one of their
first books and got pretty intrigued with it at the time) - I practice
regular astrology type synastry and Davison chart comparisons as I
learned from a Robert Marks seminar tape. But in order for Davison
charts to be entirely useful, exact birth times must be known.
Otherwise, you could do the Robert Marks technique with Composite
charts too, but you'd need to disregard the angles and house
positions, obviously, if you don't have exact birth times.
There's a summary of the Robert Marks technique on my website at
http://www.panix.com/~gsk/LovePart2.html
Gail
~saba gracile~
"Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> skrev i melding
news:3h8n53ddo4p420i5c...@4ax.com...
Hi,
interesting, does it mean that one takes the natal aspects to the composite to
figure out how each person feels towards the relationship?
Venus-Pluto is a sexual linkage according to the Magi astrology.
His moon into this should rock his world even more, and the female Pluto can be
a real powertripper perhaps? I don't know for sure.. there's a chiron-pluto-moon
linkage as well (her moon conjunction his Pluto quincunx his Chiron). Lotsa Plute!
hehe..
Veronica
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
Yes, you can compare natal aspects to the Composite, but the technique
is to make a second and third Composite or Davison chart of each
person to the original composite or Davison chart.
>Venus-Pluto is a sexual linkage according to the Magi astrology.
Yes, I know... but...
>His moon into this should rock his world even more, and the female Pluto can be
>a real powertripper perhaps? I don't know for sure.. there's a chiron-pluto-moon
>linkage as well (her moon conjunction his Pluto quincunx his Chiron). Lotsa Plute!
>hehe..
Without seeing the rest of the stuff, it looked to me like she'd hold
all the cards and he'd be pretty much at her mercy. His Moon-NN on
her Ascendant looks like he's at her beck and call, even more so with
her Pluto grand-trining his Moon Venus trine. Doesn't look good to me
for him.
Plus, in my experience, Venus Pluto linkages - especially at the time
a relationship begins (either by transits, or in the progressed
synastry) - things ultimately can end very badly. It's a "fate" kind
of thing - maybe 'meant to be' from arrangements made before
incarnating, but someone is going to end up suffering due to the
relationship.
But - I don't practice Magi Astrology. :-)
Gail
>Veronica
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>>>Hi, how would you guys interpret one persons venus-trine moon
>>>trine the other one's(the girl's) Pluto. His moon is also conjunction
>>>her Ascendant and his own n.node. Nice one, ey?
>>>
>>>Veronica
>Venus-Pluto is a sexual linkage according to the Magi astrology.
>His moon into this should rock his world even more, and the female Pluto can be
>a real powertripper perhaps?
I think you have it, right there.
Gail
~saba gracile~
> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 08:02:36 -0500, "~saba gracile~"
> <vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>
>
>>>>Hi, how would you guys interpret one persons venus-trine moon
>>>>trine the other one's(the girl's) Pluto. His moon is also conjunction
>>>>her Ascendant and his own n.node. Nice one, ey?
>>>>
>>>>Veronica
>
>>Venus-Pluto is a sexual linkage according to the Magi astrology.
>>His moon into this should rock his world even more, and the female Pluto can be
>>a real powertripper perhaps?
>
> I think you have it, right there.
>
> Gail
Ok, =)
~saba gracile~
Could be, but trines are very big blessings, brings out the best of the planets,
makes it flow and is oiled with luck, is the regular meaning of trines anyway.:)
It should mean alot of transforming, never the same thing as yesterday with Pluto
involved with personal planets. The Pluto person will be more acute and
dramatic, jealous and suspicious.. even with the trines, but according to Magis
trines are magical linkages... like conjunctions, so they bode well. Even Saturn
in trines can be good, so..
Ok, I'll try making composites with each person and the composite itself..
Veronica
>
> Gail
>
>>Veronica
>
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>"Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> skrev i melding
>news:7vc06392869a4fc8f...@4ax.com...
>> Plus, in my experience, Venus Pluto linkages - especially at the time
>> a relationship begins (either by transits, or in the progressed
>> synastry) - things ultimately can end very badly. It's a "fate" kind
>> of thing - maybe 'meant to be' from arrangements made before
>> incarnating, but someone is going to end up suffering due to the
>> relationship.
>>
>> But - I don't practice Magi Astrology. :-)
>
>Could be, but trines are very big blessings, brings out the best of the planets,
>makes it flow and is oiled with luck, is the regular meaning of trines anyway.:)
I'll have to agree to disagree on that. :-) I don't think trines are
always good (except maybe in horary astrology).
>It should mean alot of transforming, never the same thing as yesterday with Pluto
>involved with personal planets. The Pluto person will be more acute and
>dramatic, jealous and suspicious.. even with the trines, but according to Magis
>trines are magical linkages... like conjunctions, so they bode well. Even Saturn
>in trines can be good, so..
>
>Ok, I'll try making composites with each person and the composite itself..
Did the relationship begin when either of the people were having Pluto
transits to Venus, or Venus transits to Pluto either natally, or in
Secondary Progressions, or in Solar Arcs, and in the synastry of the
Secondary Progressions and Solar Arcs?
Your own observations will tell you whether Magi, or regular
astrology, was more accurate in describing the relationship. (I'm not
putting down Magi astrology because I don't know enough about it to be
able to. :-)
Gail
>Veronica
astropophageous
news:7vc06392869a4fc8f...@4ax.com...
> >Hi,
> >interesting, does it mean that one takes the natal aspects to the
composite to
> >figure out how each person feels towards the relationship?
>
> Yes, you can compare natal aspects to the Composite, but the technique
> is to make a second and third Composite or Davison chart of each
> person to the original composite or Davison chart.
>
> >Venus-Pluto is a sexual linkage according to the Magi astrology.
>
> Yes, I know... but...
>
> >His moon into this should rock his world even more, and the female Pluto
can be
> >a real powertripper perhaps? I don't know for sure.. there's a
chiron-pluto-moon
> >linkage as well (her moon conjunction his Pluto quincunx his Chiron).
Lotsa Plute!
> >hehe..
>
> Without seeing the rest of the stuff, it looked to me like she'd hold
> all the cards and he'd be pretty much at her mercy. His Moon-NN on
> her Ascendant looks like he's at her beck and call, even more so with
> her Pluto grand-trining his Moon Venus trine. Doesn't look good to me
> for him.
She also apparently has Pluto trine her ascendant, which IMHO would make her
sort of very powerful on a reactive/instinctual/routine-thought-and-action
level.
But it seems to me (I could be wrong) that her Ascendant being trine his
Moon would cause her to express/voice his own reactive level thought. This
could be good or bad, but would in any case put him "at her mercy", as you
seem also to infer. Could I be right ?
>
> Plus, in my experience, Venus Pluto linkages - especially at the time
> a relationship begins (either by transits, or in the progressed
> synastry) - things ultimately can end very badly. It's a "fate" kind
> of thing - maybe 'meant to be' from arrangements made before
> incarnating, but someone is going to end up suffering due to the
> relationship.
I suppose Venus-Pluto linkages sometimes ending very badly would stem from
the fact that Pluto is supposed to cause profound changes in someone which
can't (or can't easily) be undone.
Astropophageous
astropophageous
When you mention "Magi astrology", are you talking about the astrologer
Aurelius Magi ?
Astropophageous
astropophageous
news:yc6dnRmnEvJ...@telenor.com...
Saturn in trines would do the same as it does in squares or conjunctions,
but it wouldn't be hard on you and cause you the grief it does in those
other aspects. In other words, as far as life lessons are concerned, they
would be far easier to learn and assimilate, as far as I can see.
Astropophageous
Jyeshta
I don't think Veronica stated that the woman had Pluto trine her
Ascendant.
>But it seems to me (I could be wrong) that her Ascendant being trine his
>Moon
No, Veronica said his Moon and NN were *conjunct* the woman's
Ascendant.
>would cause her to express/voice his own reactive level thought. This
>could be good or bad, but would in any case put him "at her mercy", as you
>seem also to infer. Could I be right ?
Well, his Moon being *conjunct* the woman's Ascendant places him in
her "court". This can be a lovely thing when feelings are equally
reciprocated, but her Pluto is involved in a way that could make her
abuse his affections.
>> Plus, in my experience, Venus Pluto linkages - especially at the time
>> a relationship begins (either by transits, or in the progressed
>> synastry) - things ultimately can end very badly. It's a "fate" kind
>> of thing - maybe 'meant to be' from arrangements made before
>> incarnating, but someone is going to end up suffering due to the
>> relationship.
>
>I suppose Venus-Pluto linkages sometimes ending very badly would stem from
>the fact that Pluto is supposed to cause profound changes in someone which
>can't (or can't easily) be undone.
That, and the fact that Pluto is mainly a destructive energy.
>Astropophageous
Jyeshta
<eebe...@noonoonoo.com> wrote:
>"Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> wrote in news message
>news:675363p2657up0956...@4ax.com...
>> Your own observations will tell you whether Magi, or regular
>> astrology, was more accurate in describing the relationship. (I'm not
>> putting down Magi astrology because I don't know enough about it to be
>> able to. :-)
>
>When you mention "Magi astrology", are you talking about the astrologer
>Aurelius Magi ?
>
>Astropophageous
No, Magi astrology is something that emerged in the 1990's, by an
unknown writer or group of writers. It diverges a great deal from
conventional astrology, and they have a vastly new/different meaning
for the role of Chiron in natal and synastry and event charts, for one
thing.
Gail
Jyeshta
wrote:
>On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 09:42:06 -0500, "astropophageous"
><eebe...@noonoonoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> wrote in news message
>>news:7vc06392869a4fc8f...@4ax.com...
>>> Without seeing the rest of the stuff, it looked to me like she'd hold
>>> all the cards and he'd be pretty much at her mercy. His Moon-NN on
>>> her Ascendant looks like he's at her beck and call, even more so with
>>> her Pluto grand-trining his Moon Venus trine. Doesn't look good to me
>>> for him.
>>
>>She also apparently has Pluto trine her ascendant, which IMHO would make her
>>sort of very powerful on a reactive/instinctual/routine-thought-and-action
>>level.
>
>I don't think Veronica stated that the woman had Pluto trine her
>Ascendant.
I'm sorry, you're right. If her Pluto completes a grand trine with
his Moon, which is conjunct her Ascendant, her Pluto should be trine
her Ascendant then, too.
Gail
astropophageous
She didn't, but as her Pluto is trine both his Moon and Venus, and his Moon
is conjunct her Ascendant, it follows that her Pluto is trine her Ascendant,
doesn't it ? The more so as her own intra-chart aspects would have larger
orbs than inter-chart synastry aspects.
>
> >But it seems to me (I could be wrong) that her Ascendant being trine his
> >Moon
>
> No, Veronica said his Moon and NN were *conjunct* the woman's
> Ascendant.
Yes, my mistake, sorry. Obviously what I meant to say still stands.
>
> >would cause her to express/voice his own reactive level thought. This
> >could be good or bad, but would in any case put him "at her mercy", as
you
> >seem also to infer. Could I be right ?
>
> Well, his Moon being *conjunct* the woman's Ascendant places him in
> her "court". This can be a lovely thing when feelings are equally
> reciprocated, but her Pluto is involved in a way that could make her
> abuse his affections.
I don't know about that "court" thing. This may be the particular way of
expressing it of some particular astrologer. Does it confirm in some way or
to some extent what I said ?
>
> >> Plus, in my experience, Venus Pluto linkages - especially at the time
> >> a relationship begins (either by transits, or in the progressed
> >> synastry) - things ultimately can end very badly. It's a "fate" kind
> >> of thing - maybe 'meant to be' from arrangements made before
> >> incarnating, but someone is going to end up suffering due to the
> >> relationship.
> >
> >I suppose Venus-Pluto linkages sometimes ending very badly would stem
from
> >the fact that Pluto is supposed to cause profound changes in someone
which
> >can't (or can't easily) be undone.
>
> That, and the fact that Pluto is mainly a destructive energy.
That depends how you see it. Something destructive which effects big and
profound changes can be a good thing at times.
Astropophageous
Jyeshta
<eebe...@noonoonoo.com> wrote:
Yes, and I noted so in a previous post.
>The more so as her own intra-chart aspects would have larger
>orbs than inter-chart synastry aspects.
We don't know that for certain, though.
>> >But it seems to me (I could be wrong) that her Ascendant being trine his
>> >Moon
>>
>> No, Veronica said his Moon and NN were *conjunct* the woman's
>> Ascendant.
>
>Yes, my mistake, sorry. Obviously what I meant to say still stands.
>
>> >would cause her to express/voice his own reactive level thought.
Not necessarily, unless she's telepathic. It would be his
reactive/reflective level thought/emotion expressed by him in favor of
her.
>> >This
>> >could be good or bad, but would in any case put him "at her mercy", as
>> >you
>> >seem also to infer. Could I be right ?
Yes, but I said that because of her Pluto involvement combined with
his Moon conjunct her ascendant.
>> Well, his Moon being *conjunct* the woman's Ascendant places him in
>> her "court". This can be a lovely thing when feelings are equally
>> reciprocated, but her Pluto is involved in a way that could make her
>> abuse his affections.
>
>I don't know about that "court" thing. This may be the particular way of
>expressing it of some particular astrologer. Does it confirm in some way or
>to some extent what I said ?
No, not really. And what I said was my own expression.
>> >> Plus, in my experience, Venus Pluto linkages - especially at the time
>> >> a relationship begins (either by transits, or in the progressed
>> >> synastry) - things ultimately can end very badly. It's a "fate" kind
>> >> of thing - maybe 'meant to be' from arrangements made before
>> >> incarnating, but someone is going to end up suffering due to the
>> >> relationship.
>> >
>> >I suppose Venus-Pluto linkages sometimes ending very badly would stem
>> >from
>> >the fact that Pluto is supposed to cause profound changes in someone
>> >which
>> >can't (or can't easily) be undone.
>>
>> That, and the fact that Pluto is mainly a destructive energy.
>
>That depends how you see it. Something destructive which effects big and
>profound changes can be a good thing at times.
"What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger"? I don't buy it and I
never have.
Um, if you wouldn't mind, would you please reduce the number of
characters per line in your posts? You might find the option in your
newsreader under char-wrap or somesuch. Your lines are too long and
they mess up the attributions which indicate each person's statements.
Gail
>Astropophageous
~saba gracile~
"astropophageous" <eebe...@noonoonoo.com> skrev i melding
news:4662ccbf$0$13862$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
Jup :)
V
>
~saba gracile~
It's probably a logical deduction from the aspects I already mentioned :)
>
>>But it seems to me (I could be wrong) that her Ascendant being trine his
>>Moon
>
> No, Veronica said his Moon and NN were *conjunct* the woman's
> Ascendant.
Conjunction, that's right.
>
>>would cause her to express/voice his own reactive level thought. This
>>could be good or bad, but would in any case put him "at her mercy", as you
>>seem also to infer. Could I be right ?
>
> Well, his Moon being *conjunct* the woman's Ascendant places him in
> her "court". This can be a lovely thing when feelings are equally
> reciprocated, but her Pluto is involved in a way that could make her
> abuse his affections.
I have experienced that the person with the Axis involved is very affected
by the other person's planet, could I say almost obsessively so, because
the planet person has such a huge impact on the Ascendant person (or Ic/Mc
person, f.ex. if Uranus is on the other's IC it could drive the IC person
nuts to the core, because of the uncairtanty the Uranus creates in that persons
life).
>
>>> Plus, in my experience, Venus Pluto linkages - especially at the time
>>> a relationship begins (either by transits, or in the progressed
>>> synastry) - things ultimately can end very badly. It's a "fate" kind
>>> of thing - maybe 'meant to be' from arrangements made before
>>> incarnating, but someone is going to end up suffering due to the
>>> relationship.
>>
>>I suppose Venus-Pluto linkages sometimes ending very badly would stem from
>>the fact that Pluto is supposed to cause profound changes in someone which
>>can't (or can't easily) be undone.
>
> That, and the fact that Pluto is mainly a destructive energy.
Pluto is not a destructive energy, like anything it can be applied badly. Like a knife,
one can use it as a tool or murder someone.. Pluto is like that more than other
planets because it has a lot of choice imbedded in its meaning, because with power
comes choise. It's a golden entity, creates deep and profound connections and strong
psychological effects. It's a planet that you can really harness success with, anywhere.
It is bound to be somewhat obsessive about things though, trines or not. The non-Pluto
person in a Pluto synastry will feel that the Pluto person alway tries to acquire something
from him, which of course can backfire badly.
>
>>Astropophageous
>
Veronica
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
Yes, I eventually noticed.
>>>But it seems to me (I could be wrong) that her Ascendant being trine his
>>>Moon
>>
>> No, Veronica said his Moon and NN were *conjunct* the woman's
>> Ascendant.
>
>Conjunction, that's right.
>
>>
>>>would cause her to express/voice his own reactive level thought. This
>>>could be good or bad, but would in any case put him "at her mercy", as you
>>>seem also to infer. Could I be right ?
>>
>> Well, his Moon being *conjunct* the woman's Ascendant places him in
>> her "court". This can be a lovely thing when feelings are equally
>> reciprocated, but her Pluto is involved in a way that could make her
>> abuse his affections.
>
>I have experienced that the person with the Axis involved is very affected
>by the other person's planet, could I say almost obsessively so, because
>the planet person has such a huge impact on the Ascendant person (or Ic/Mc
>person, f.ex. if Uranus is on the other's IC it could drive the IC person
>nuts to the core, because of the uncairtanty the Uranus creates in that persons
>life).
Yes, I can agree with that example. I'm not sure the axis person is
always so affected though - it depends on the whole picture.
>>>> Plus, in my experience, Venus Pluto linkages - especially at the time
>>>> a relationship begins (either by transits, or in the progressed
>>>> synastry) - things ultimately can end very badly. It's a "fate" kind
>>>> of thing - maybe 'meant to be' from arrangements made before
>>>> incarnating, but someone is going to end up suffering due to the
>>>> relationship.
>>>
>>>I suppose Venus-Pluto linkages sometimes ending very badly would stem from
>>>the fact that Pluto is supposed to cause profound changes in someone which
>>>can't (or can't easily) be undone.
>>
>> That, and the fact that Pluto is mainly a destructive energy.
>
>Pluto is not a destructive energy, like anything it can be applied badly. Like a knife,
>one can use it as a tool or murder someone.. Pluto is like that more than other
>planets because it has a lot of choice imbedded in its meaning, because with power
>comes choise. It's a golden entity, creates deep and profound connections and strong
>psychological effects. It's a planet that you can really harness success with, anywhere.
>It is bound to be somewhat obsessive about things though, trines or not. The non-Pluto
>person in a Pluto synastry will feel that the Pluto person alway tries to acquire something
>from him, which of course can backfire badly.
Okay, you and I don't agree about Pluto, then.
Gail
>>>Astropophageous
>>
>
>Veronica
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>"Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> skrev i melding
>news:stl5635r6stoi3p2e...@4ax.com...
>> That, and the fact that Pluto is mainly a destructive energy.
>
>Pluto is not a destructive energy, like anything it can be applied badly. Like a knife,
>one can use it as a tool or murder someone.. Pluto is like that more than other
>planets because it has a lot of choice imbedded in its meaning, because with power
>comes choise. It's a golden entity, creates deep and profound connections and strong
>psychological effects. It's a planet that you can really harness success with, anywhere.
>It is bound to be somewhat obsessive about things though, trines or not. The non-Pluto
>person in a Pluto synastry will feel that the Pluto person alway tries to acquire something
>from him, which of course can backfire badly.
>
>Veronica
Okay... So, with Pluto, there's choice... hmmm. Pluto is an energy
having more to do with fate, IME, which precludes choice. Please tell
me, have you ever had transit Pluto conjunct, square, or opposition
Moon, Mars, or Saturn? If so, what was that like?
Gail
~saba gracile~
Pluto is good for me I have Pluto sextile my Sun and trine my Ascendant.
Also I have many scorp planets, so Pluto is 'in it' with me. I did have Pluto
conjunction Sun, it was intimidating and I fell like I was falling in an Alice in
Wonderland hole, but then at the second and third transit it came together..and
I couldn't care less. But many thoughts constantly went through my mind about
my situation and who's got the upper hand etc.
How did your Pluto transits feel?
Veronica
>
Jyeshta
>>I have experienced that the person with the Axis involved is very affected
>>by the other person's planet, could I say almost obsessively so, because
>>the planet person has such a huge impact on the Ascendant person (or Ic/Mc
>>person, f.ex. if Uranus is on the other's IC it could drive the IC person
>>nuts to the core, because of the uncairtanty the Uranus creates in that persons
>>life).
>
>Yes, I can agree with that example. I'm not sure the axis person is
>always so affected though - it depends on the whole picture.
Here's an example - my partner and me.
My Mars is conjunct his Descendant, and my Sun is conjunct his MC.
You'd think that I would have a motivating affect on him, wouldn't
you? And that he'd listen to my advice? The answer is: practically
never. :-)
>Gail
>
>>Veronica
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
I've had so many of them I've lost count, and to every planet in my
chart, but, on the whole, excruciating. And I have Pluto conjunct
Sun-Mercury natally, and trine Ascendant from the 8th house. Not fun.
The only Pluto transit I've ever had that didn't hurt, including the
trines and sextiles, was the conjunction to natal Jupiter. I only
wish I'd known astrology back then because *that* one I could have
possibly used to change my job situation. And I think the reason it
didn't hurt was because I have a 10th house Jupiter, and the 10th
house is supposedly where we 'see most clearly', and Jupiter is a
benefic, and it was a conjunction rather than a square or opposition.
Although I believe Pluto is an energy of fate, I may have an
additional personal bias, because most of my planets are in the 8th
and 12th houses - the most painful houses, IMO (and I just know
someone's going to insist that *that's* a matter of choice, too. :-)
But the best book I ever read dealing with Pluto is "The Astrology of
Fate" by Liz Greene. In fact, it's the only book of hers I really
liked at all, even though many of her other books I've read are very
good - just something about the way she writes - too abstract for me
or something.
But wow, you've really only had one Pluto transit in your life?
Gail
>Veronica
ast...@yahoo.com
> On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 16:27:38 -0500, "~saba gracile~"
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Jyeshta" <whate...@twixtntween.com> skrev i melding
> >news:0ma663lnrunqcr38i...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 15:07:40 -0500, "~saba gracile~"
>
> >>>"Jyeshta" <whate...@twixtntween.com> skrev i melding
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I said that my mom had cervical cancer when I was 23 years
old......that was when she was 23 years old. ..I was almost 6 at the
time.
I made a Dyslexic mistake.....sorry.
ast...@yahoo.com
I have nothing against Pluto. After all, I have Sun,Mercury,and Venus
in Scorpio along with Pluto in 1st. I even have Moon quincunx Pluto
and Sun contraparallel Pluto. There is also my Eris in 8th house. I
like the depth,transformation,digging beneath the surface. I am use
of the traumas,betrayals that Pluto often suggest. I never knew my
father who had Sun contraparallel Pluto like me. My Scorpio Moon
square Pluto mother never knew her mother who had Moon sextile Pluto.
My mother had cervical cancer when I was 23 years and had to get her
uterus removed or else she would have died. I am use of the trauma of
pluto including seeing my mother get shot 3 days before my birthday
and being abused by my mother and stepfather as well as being away
from my mom for awhile in a fosterhome. Even my special education
years were traumatic and lifechanging for me..especially when I got
bullied and called "retard" all the time by normal children for being
"special". My grandfather's suicide was catalyst that got that ended
my 2 year atheism and got me into metaphysical stuff including
Astrology. Transiting Pluto was conjuncting my Jupiter. Transiting
Pluto was in t-square with my Pisces Moon in 6th and retrograde Saturn
in Gemini in 9th when I started believing in Astrology in june 2007.
My belief systems were shattered for sure! My willpower got me
through Navy Bootcamp,A-School,and 7 years in the navy as well helped
me me make rate.
It's my experiences that motivate me to want to help others.
I hit rock bottom(Depression) and climbed my way up.....Financially, I
hit rock bottom, and I ended up with Disability Compensation with
backpay that considerably increased my bank account. I have a good
pension right now. Learning about my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADD was a
transformational experience,and I came to grips with it and realized
that being an advocate/activist for people with learning disabilities
is my life purpose that the Universe brought me to planet,Earth.
I love Pluto's energy. I constantly live in it ,and I am shaped by it.
So is my family. I am the Plutonian person. So is my girlfriend.
My girlfriend has Scorpio Moon-Saturn conjunct Pluto in Libra in 7th/
near 8th house cusp......the stelium is clearly in the 8th in Koch
house system. She has Mars oppose Pluto. She has Mercury and Venus
quindecile Pluto. She has Pluto semisquare Ascendant. I love her
depth,intensity,seriousness,and passion. There is nothing superficial
about her. I like that she can notices BS.
Her strong Pluto energy draws me to her and vice versa.
We have strong Pluto synastry
My Sun,Mercury,and Venus are in her 8th house. Her Sun,Mercury,and
Mars are in my 8th house.
We have strong Pluto composite.
Sun,Mercury,Venus in 8th house.
Pluto conjunct, trine Ascendant,Venus,sextile Neptune-
Descendant,oppose Eris-North Node in 11th
She easily knocks sense into me. She got me to let go of the past
which led me to forgive my mother for abusing me and the psychiatrists
for misdiagnosing me. Letting go of the past changed our relationship
for the better and deepened and strengthened our bond. We love each
other so much. We tell each other that we love each other every day
and night. We can be very jealous and possessive with each other.
We're okay with that. It goes with the extreme depth,intensity. We
both take relationships very seriously. We are strong believers in
monogamy,fidelity, and only having sex if there is a deep soul
connection. We definitely have a deep soul connection that transcends
our interracial relationship,12 year age difference, different
homelife,different educational background. She and I are alike in
many other ways including we don't smoke,drink,nor use drugs. We are
introvert and private and not into partying. We are also both very
liberal and believe that gays should have the right to marry.
Pluto is said to be the planet of taboos. Well...we smash down
taboos. I was born to smash down taboos.
I know what it's like to have battles with inner demons,and I know
what it's like to be almost overcome by them but beating them in the
end.
I believe what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.
I feel that's Pluto too.
Pluto is not bad......it depends on how you use it.
~saba gracile~
ok, well that's just two astrological things, if he's not the type to listen to
anybodys advice (look at his natal) that's not going to change it. I can say
that you're very important to him with your sun raging on his high MC :)
It's his goal to have you in his life`? You rank so high, with that one. Mars on
Descendant, hehe.. good energies there :p
Veronica
>>
>>>Veronica
>
~saba gracile~
Pluto is the least easy to handle (exept Saturn with it's blockages not allowing you
a step further until demands are met). But its effect's just very strong, and for you
it's not ending badly in the end is it, with those aspects you should come out the
other side stronger, I'd think. Even if it hurt at the moment..?
>
> The only Pluto transit I've ever had that didn't hurt, including the
> trines and sextiles, was the conjunction to natal Jupiter. I only
> wish I'd known astrology back then because *that* one I could have
> possibly used to change my job situation. And I think the reason it
> didn't hurt was because I have a 10th house Jupiter, and the 10th
> house is supposedly where we 'see most clearly', and Jupiter is a
> benefic, and it was a conjunction rather than a square or opposition.
Ok, Jupiter is mighty benign and powerful, even more so than Pluto and
it's 'excrusiating' ways. Jupiter really saves the day.
>
> Although I believe Pluto is an energy of fate, I may have an
> additional personal bias, because most of my planets are in the 8th
> and 12th houses - the most painful houses, IMO (and I just know
> someone's going to insist that *that's* a matter of choice, too. :-)
hm energy of fate.. that is a very fated term, I can believe you think that way
from the natal Pluto aspects you have. More pragmatically, isn't feeling that
Pluto is 'fated' more of an inevitable meeting with your deepest fears and
struggles, death, change beyond recognition etc.. which has results that of
course seems fated. Maybe its that its monumental and strong in its effect
that we make it like fate. Just arguing with myself :)
Pluto trines and you own a never ending turbine moving you constantly into
the right direction.. is my feeling. And the instincts are working smoothly especially
with moon connected (like astropophagous explained,it sounded right).
the best book I ever read dealing with Pluto is "The Astrology of
> Fate" by Liz Greene. In fact, it's the only book of hers I really
> liked at all, even though many of her other books I've read are very
> good - just something about the way she writes - too abstract for me
> or something.
Ok, never read that one.
>
> But wow, you've really only had one Pluto transit in your life?
Nope, it went over all my natal planets hehe, since I have all my planets
ranging from end of virgo through Sag, so just think about all the plute transits I've had,
conjunctions nonetheless. I've survived them all, as natally for it bodes good, not bad,
so that might have helped. But I remember many emotionally draining situations too,
as well as struggles but we all have them anyways :0
Veronica
>
> Gail
>
>>Veronica
>
~saba gracile~
<ast...@yahoo.com> skrev i melding news:1180976488....@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Wow, reading all that I see you must be almost superhumanly Pluto strong
to even handle all those things. I love Pluto too because it's the planet that is
'on my side'. Anytime change came, the bigger the better, the more I got out
of the situation and the better it was for me. Also Uranus is sextile my MC so
my natal chart refuses to let me be happy in a stagnated situation, and I am
Taurus Ascendant, don't find rapid change too easy to handle, psychologically,
so I am forced to jump into it! :0)
Your girlfriend sounds strong, almost fierce! And the sexyness of Pluto is underrated,
it had ALL of what sexy really means built into it. That's why understanding it's energy
is important, it wants the emotional ride along with the erotic. Can it get more intriguing?
I don't think so. I have Venus parallell Pluto, and that's a female super sexual linkage,
same as Madonna. And me and Madonna is exactly the same in our constitution and
eroticness I guess, so I've been told. I've looked like her all my life..though it's more the
same energy than looks itself. But it's there... Pluto rocks! hehe.
Veronica
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>Pluto is the least easy to handle (exept Saturn with it's blockages not allowing you
>a step further until demands are met). But its effect's just very strong, and for you
>it's not ending badly in the end is it, with those aspects you should come out the
>other side stronger, I'd think. Even if it hurt at the moment..?
Oh, yah! I just LOVE it when my loved ones die!
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>"Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> skrev i melding
>news:9bc663t7scc193gg3...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 15:07:40 -0500, "~saba gracile~"
>>><vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>>
>>>>I have experienced that the person with the Axis involved is very affected
>>>>by the other person's planet, could I say almost obsessively so, because
>>>>the planet person has such a huge impact on the Ascendant person (or Ic/Mc
>>>>person, f.ex. if Uranus is on the other's IC it could drive the IC person
>>>>nuts to the core, because of the uncairtanty the Uranus creates in that persons
>>>>life).
>>>
>>>Yes, I can agree with that example. I'm not sure the axis person is
>>>always so affected though - it depends on the whole picture.
>>
>> Here's an example - my partner and me.
>>
>> My Mars is conjunct his Descendant, and my Sun is conjunct his MC.
>> You'd think that I would have a motivating affect on him, wouldn't
>> you? And that he'd listen to my advice? The answer is: practically
>> never. :-)
>>
>>>Gail
>
>ok, well that's just two astrological things,
That's what I've been *saying* - the whole picture has to be
considered!
>if he's not the type to listen to
>anybodys advice (look at his natal) that's not going to change it. I can say
>that you're very important to him with your sun raging on his high MC :)
>It's his goal to have you in his life`? You rank so high, with that one. Mars on
>Descendant, hehe.. good energies there :p
Right, thanks <rolling eyes>. No, we love each other about equally
but, if anything, I've learned much more from him than he's learned
from me. With my two male planets on his angles, *he* represents to
*me* the masculine principle or ideal according to my chart.
>Veronica
Jyeshta
Hey, Vero and Raymond, let's talk again when you're both in your 50s.
Oh that's right - I'll be long gone by then. Well, Ta Ta! :-)
Gail
ast...@yahoo.com
> <asty...@yahoo.com> skrev i meldingnews:1180976488....@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah..
I am strong in Pluto midpoints too. I am into cosmobiology,and so
I use midpoints.
Pluto square Sun/Mars - '14
Pluto semisquare Venus/Node - '17
Pluto conjunct Mercury/Ceres - '18
Jupiter conjunct Pluto/Vertex - 22
Sun conjunct Jupiter/Pluto - '46
Sun square Pluto/Midheaven - '42
Ascendant square Mars/Pluto - '04
Moon sesquiquadrate Sun/Pluto - '05
Midheaven sesquiquadrate Venus/Pluto - '05
Saturn oppose Pluto/Node - '33
I also have close aspects to kuiper belt objects that show more
intense evolutionary energy. I have always felt that I didn't
belong.......and it wasn't just because I used to be in special
education.
Sun conjunct Ixion - '05
Sun contraparallel Orcus - '01
Sun triseptile Orcus - '01
Moon square Varuna - '10
Moon sextile Typhon - '09
EL61 square Midheaven - '03
t-square of
Mercury oppose Ceto - '37
Mercury square Rhadamanthus - '50
(could be an indicator for my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADD)
Mercury biquintile Eris - '06 - (could be my Dyslexic,Dyspraxic,ADD
strengths)
Venus trine Orcus - '42
Moon trine Quaoar - '47
Venus sextile Deucalion - 01
Mercury oppose
Midheaven sextile Eris - 1'01 (Midheaven square Eris/Node - '08)
astropophageous
Perhaps it does or it doesn't, but I didn't say that.
Picture someone seriously ill. Only a drastic medicine can cure him. Just
think of the use of radioactive treatment for cancer.
I would say here the profoundly destructive effects of radioactivity are a
good thing to have.
>
> Um, if you wouldn't mind, would you please reduce the number of
> characters per line in your posts? You might find the option in your
> newsreader under char-wrap or somesuch. Your lines are too long and
> they mess up the attributions which indicate each person's statements.
In some other newsgroups my lines are not long enough. I don't see how I can
readily solve this so I can satisfy both your query and that problem. I
never seem to have had any problem with confusing people's statement until
now, and nobody seems to have had a problem with it either. But of course,
that doesn't mean it can't be a problem to SOME of the people.
Astropophageous
>
> Gail
>
> >Astropophageous
>
~saba gracile~
Uhm, everybody dies..
Veronica
>
~saba gracile~
<ast...@yahoo.com> skrev i melding news:1180985310....@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
woh, I am also into other planets and entities.. cosmobiology what is that all about by
the way?
How do you get the declinations of all these entities, what program has this? a site?
Yeah you have a lot of stuff. The meaning of all these, Orcus and Varuna etc, where do you
read about those?
Veronica
>
ast...@yahoo.com
> <asty...@yahoo.com> skrev i meldingnews:1180985310....@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Cosmobiology is the offshoot of Uranian Astrology. It was created by
Reinhold Ebertin. It focuses on the hard aspects, midpoints. It
focuses little on signs and soft aspects. It doesn't uses houses. It
doesn't uThe main difference between the two schools is that
Cosmobiology rejects the hypothetical Trans-Neptunian objects used by
the Hamburg School and later Uranian astrologers. Another difference
is the significant expansion of Cosmobiology into medical astrology,
Dr. Ebertin being a physician.
Cosmobiology continued Alfred Witte's later primary emphasis on the
use of astrological midpoints along with the following 8th-harmonic
aspects in the natal chart because he considered them to be the most
potent in terms of personal influence: conjunction (0°), semi-square
(45°), square (90°), sesquiquadrate (135°), and opposition (180°).
In cosmobiological analysis, planets are inserted into a special type
of horoscope often referred to as a 'Cosmogram' (derived from the
Uranian 90° dial chart) and delineated.
The primary reference/research text for Cosmobiology was first
published in 1940 by the German astrologer Reinhold Ebertin. The name
of the book is The Combination of Stellar Influences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmobiology
you can declinations for kuiper belt objects here:
I have Riyal software. It is created by Juan Revilla
It calculates planetary nodes midpoints for centaurs and kuiper belt
objects. I found out that I have Sun conj South Eris Node with 10
minutes of arc. My Earth is even conjunct North Eris Node with 10
minutes of arc in heliocentrical chart. Heliocentrical planetary
nodes are important in heliocentrical astrology. Zipporah Dobbyns
believed that planetary nodes were important. Jeffrey Wolf Green
believes that they are important in evolutionary astrology.
http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/riyal.html
planetary nodes:
http://www.heliocentric-astrology.com/Heliocentric_Astrology_Lessons.html
http://www.astrologycosmobiology.com.au/planetary_nodes.html
http://mysite.verizon.net/bonniehill/pages.aux/astrology/tobey/tobey.14.html
You can get keywords here:
I really like Philip Sedgwick's stuff. He's really into galactic
objects like black holes,pulsars,quasars. I recently ordered his
Galactic Trilogy CD
I have a subscription to his GALACTIC TIMES
~saba gracile~
<ast...@yahoo.com> skrev i melding news:1181003201....@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
oh gosh, that's alot of new stuff, I could dive into this.. if I find many hours to spear hehe.
Thankyou very much:)
Veronica
>
astropophageous
Why would he listen to your advice, with your Mars conjunct his Descendant ?
I can hardly conceive of a worse place for your Mars for marital harmony.
Astropophageous
>
> >Gail
> >
> >>Veronica
>
astropophageous
news:ZrKdnRPJ14M...@telenor.com...
I suppose you are saying this tongue-in-cheek, as obviously her Mars is very
badly placed in his chart. The seventh house is the mundane house of Venus,
and the energies of Mars are quite the opposite; they negate Venus' energies
to the extreme.
Astropophageous
>
> Veronica
> >>
> >>>Veronica
> >
>
Jyeshta
But it's the Chaldean house of the Moon - not too incompatible
with a Mars placement.
>Astropophageous
>
>>
>> Veronica
>> >>
>> >>>Veronica
>> >
>>
Jyeshta
<eebe...@noonoonoo.com> wrote:
>"Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> wrote in news message
>news:9bc663t7scc193gg3...@4ax.com...
>>
>> >On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 15:07:40 -0500, "~saba gracile~"
>> ><vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>>
>> >>I have experienced that the person with the Axis involved is very
>affected
>> >>by the other person's planet, could I say almost obsessively so, because
>> >>the planet person has such a huge impact on the Ascendant person (or
>Ic/Mc
>> >>person, f.ex. if Uranus is on the other's IC it could drive the IC
>person
>> >>nuts to the core, because of the uncairtanty the Uranus creates in that
>persons
>> >>life).
>> >
>> >Yes, I can agree with that example. I'm not sure the axis person is
>> >always so affected though - it depends on the whole picture.
>>
>> Here's an example - my partner and me.
>>
>> My Mars is conjunct his Descendant, and my Sun is conjunct his MC.
>> You'd think that I would have a motivating affect on him, wouldn't
>> you? And that he'd listen to my advice? The answer is: practically
>> never. :-)
>
>Why would he listen to your advice, with your Mars conjunct his Descendant ?
He actually does listen to my astrological advice and to my
health advice. It's mainly regarding his disorganization that I
can't influence.
>I can hardly conceive of
That, I believe, is your main problem.
~saba gracile~
Are we supposed to think like this, a planet doesn't 'fit' in a house because of what it
represents? I would think that Pluto in seventh f.ex. would lead to very powerful partners,
that you may or may not like.. It's too simple to put it this way. Mars in partner's seventh
is probably a physically active one if they're not the arguing types, then it could mean
that, yes.
V
>
>>
>> >Gail
>> >
>> >>Veronica
>>
>
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
Since you're both talking about me, I might as well chime in.
Astropophageous was basically just trolling me.
Vero's right - my partner and I like doing things together,
taking walks, taking boat rides, train rides, going to places,
etc. But I feel him affect my Mars much more than he feels my
Mars. He has affected the areas of my life that my Mars rules.
Plus, we both have Mars in the same sign. We practically never
argue because I feel way too protective of him, and he used to
handle anger or stress by leaving the room, but his anger is very
rarely about me, it's almost always about other stuff and, like a
typical Cancerian, he didn't used to verbalize it - although he's
gotten better at doing that since he and I have been together,
because when I'm angry, I do verbalize it, and I think he's
picked that up from me, which is a healthy thing for him instead
of keeping it bottled up.
That's how my Mars on his Descendant works.
>V
>>
>>>
>>> >Gail
>>> >
>>> >>Veronica
>>>
>>
~saba gracile~
We're also talking general astrology.
>
> Astropophageous was basically just trolling me.
How was he trolling.. Just guessing, but he probably thought Mars is proudness and would
definetely not take advice when someone has it on his Desc.
>
> Vero's right - my partner and I like doing things together,
> taking walks, taking boat rides, train rides, going to places,
> etc. But I feel him affect my Mars much more than he feels my
> Mars. He has affected the areas of my life that my Mars rules.
Ok.
>
> Plus, we both have Mars in the same sign. We practically never
> argue because I feel way too protective of him, and he used to
> handle anger or stress by leaving the room, but his anger is very
> rarely about me, it's almost always about other stuff and, like a
> typical Cancerian, he didn't used to verbalize it - although he's
> gotten better at doing that since he and I have been together,
> because when I'm angry, I do verbalize it, and I think he's
> picked that up from me, which is a healthy thing for him instead
> of keeping it bottled up.
That's the best for everyone, and being with you can save his health
in the long run if it makes him express himself. Of course if he was a
proud person with lots of outbursts (such as a Sag or an angry Scorp) I'm not
sure this combo would be as good.
This debate was about whether the axis or the planet person is affected
the most, and it's both ways for sure, but how do you know it doesn't
affect him just as much, he's a cancer too so he would let alot be inside
of him anyhow. One day he might just chop your head off (kidding!).
>
> That's how my Mars on his Descendant works.
Ok :)
>
>>V
>>>
>>>>
>>>> >Gail
>>>> >
>>>> >>Veronica
>>>>
>>>
>
Jyeshta
<vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
When someone makes a deliberately provocative and usually unkind
statement about someone who is also reading it while replying to
someone else, on Usenet, that's called trolling. Then when the
person they made the statement about reacts, they sit back and
have a nasty little chuckle about it.
>Just guessing, but he probably thought Mars is proudness and would
>definetely not take advice when someone has it on his Desc.
I don't think so.
>> Vero's right - my partner and I like doing things together,
>> taking walks, taking boat rides, train rides, going to places,
>> etc. But I feel him affect my Mars much more than he feels my
>> Mars. He has affected the areas of my life that my Mars rules.
>
>Ok.
>>
>> Plus, we both have Mars in the same sign. We practically never
>> argue because I feel way too protective of him, and he used to
>> handle anger or stress by leaving the room, but his anger is very
>> rarely about me, it's almost always about other stuff and, like a
>> typical Cancerian, he didn't used to verbalize it - although he's
>> gotten better at doing that since he and I have been together,
>> because when I'm angry, I do verbalize it, and I think he's
>> picked that up from me, which is a healthy thing for him instead
>> of keeping it bottled up.
>
>That's the best for everyone, and being with you can save his health
>in the long run if it makes him express himself. Of course if he was a
>proud person with lots of outbursts (such as a Sag or an angry Scorp) I'm not
>sure this combo would be as good.
>
>This debate was about whether the axis or the planet person is affected
>the most,
I think it's the planet person who's more affected, but we're
free to disagree if you think otherwise.
>and it's both ways for sure, but how do you know it doesn't
>affect him just as much,
I'm pretty sure it doesn't, except for him starting to talk more
about stuff that stresses him out. The first few years we were
together, he didn't. He's gotten more open about talking about
stuff like that. But who knows - that might have nothing to do
with my Mars, and more to do with his own progressions, arcs,
etc.
>he's a cancer too so he would let alot be inside
>of him anyhow. One day he might just chop your head off (kidding!).
This thread made me think about how my Mars might affect him so I
asked him if I aggravate him, or make him upset, whatever. He
was surprised and said that I don't, at all.
~saba gracile~
Ok you know best what's going on with your guy =)
Vero
astropophageous
news:f26d8313lgo4f9k6o...@4ax.com...
But does this Chaldean house of the moon occupy the same space as the zodiac
sign Libra ? I guess it doesn't. I confess I don't know anything about
Chaldean houses, but I bet they don't occupy exactly the same regions as the
signs. What place does this Chaldean house of the moon take up in Libra ?
About a third ? That just would mean, according to what you are claiming,
that Mars wouldn't be as badly placed in this "Chaldean house of the moon"
as it would be in the part of Libra which isn't taken up by this house of
the moon.
Houses of the moon there were agreed to be in Vedic astrology 27 or 28, they
are probably the same or almost the same in ancient chaldean astrology. But
perhaps I am confusing a bit.
Astropophageous
>
>
>
> >Astropophageous
> >
> >>
> >> Veronica
> >> >>
> >> >>>Veronica
> >> >
> >>
>
astropophageous
news:rPadnWX3Dow...@telenor.com...
>
> "astropophageous" <eebe...@noonoonoo.com> skrev i melding
> news:4686717d$0$14237$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> > "Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> wrote in news message
> > news:9bc663t7scc193gg3...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> >On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 15:07:40 -0500, "~saba gracile~"
> >> ><vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
> >>
> >
> > Why would he listen to your advice, with your Mars conjunct his
Descendant ?
> > I can hardly conceive of a worse place for your Mars for marital
harmony.
> >
> > Astropophageous
>
> Are we supposed to think like this,
Yes you are. :)
a planet doesn't 'fit' in a house because of what it
> represents?
Just consult the classic astrologers, will you ?
I am sure if you check out Lilly (which Todd Carnes here has made available
as a pdf download, and which I myself did only extremely cursorily) he
mentions this.
An example. Mars is in its own sign in Aries. That implies that Mars in the
first house is a very good position. Venus is in (sorry if I miss out on the
exact terminology, it's been a while I busied myself with basics) its fall
IIRC in Aries : that means in the first house it's not very good. Not
actually bad I suppose as Venus is not a malefic, but it's not as good as in
some other places.
I would think that Pluto in seventh f.ex. would lead to very powerful
partners,
> that you may or may not like.. It's too simple to put it this way. Mars in
partner's seventh
> is probably a physically active one if they're not the arguing types, then
it could mean
> that, yes.
Don't forget the seventh house is the house of contracts, agreements but
also of open war. Marriage is also a part of it (not because of the "open
war" part, but because it's a contract and an agreement).
Mars in the seventh house indicates more disagreement than anything else
(IMHO).
Astropophageous
~saba gracile~
> "~saba gracile~" <vero...@frisurf.no> wrote in news message
> news:rPadnWX3Dow...@telenor.com...
>>
>> "astropophageous" <eebe...@noonoonoo.com> skrev i melding
>> news:4686717d$0$14237$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
>> > "Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> wrote in news message
>> > news:9bc663t7scc193gg3...@4ax.com...
>> >>
>> >> >On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 15:07:40 -0500, "~saba gracile~"
>> >> ><vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
>> >>
>
>> >
>> > Why would he listen to your advice, with your Mars conjunct his
> Descendant ?
>> > I can hardly conceive of a worse place for your Mars for marital
> harmony.
>> >
>> > Astropophageous
>>
>> Are we supposed to think like this,
>
> Yes you are. :)
huh
>
> a planet doesn't 'fit' in a house because of what it
>> represents?
>
> Just consult the classic astrologers, will you ?
> I am sure if you check out Lilly (which Todd Carnes here has made available
> as a pdf download, and which I myself did only extremely cursorily) he
> mentions this.
>
I know about classic astrology, I also know that they fail miserably when complex
matters are at hand. One has to see the psychological connection with what's preferred.
I have a Pluto'ish love life and emotional power attracts me more than usual for others,
I have success with it and I get off of it too (no I'm not a psychopath). Say, whatever
sign my partnerhouse would occupy on the cusp, I'd be interested in Pluto there.
Wouldn't I?
> An example. Mars is in its own sign in Aries. That implies that Mars in the
> first house is a very good position. Venus is in (sorry if I miss out on the
> exact terminology, it's been a while I busied myself with basics) its fall
> IIRC in Aries : that means in the first house it's not very good. Not
> actually bad I suppose as Venus is not a malefic, but it's not as good as in
> some other places.
I don't know about terms such as good or bad here. I know folks with Mars in
Aries that are complete bullies with no diplomacy what so ever, I cannot get
along with them and I dont really want to. I am mars Libra so it makes my
hairs stand up when I meet these people's true nature which is abruptly
hacking away on me(or others) with no breaks on or perspective at all. See?
Mars in Aries sucks.
>
> I would think that Pluto in seventh f.ex. would lead to very powerful
> partners,
>> that you may or may not like.. It's too simple to put it this way. Mars in
> partner's seventh
>> is probably a physically active one if they're not the arguing types, then
> it could mean
>> that, yes.
>
> Don't forget the seventh house is the house of contracts, agreements but
> also of open war. Marriage is also a part of it (not because of the "open
> war" part, but because it's a contract and an agreement).
>
> Mars in the seventh house indicates more disagreement than anything else
> (IMHO).
I am not hung up on planets in houses, except for perhaps in horary when dignity
and placement is very important. In natal and synastry, it goes deeper and I want
to see context before I state those things.
VEronica
>
> Astropophageous
>
I. R. Heller
"astropophageous" <eebe...@noonoonoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:469a8f20$0$13856$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
Most birth times are earlier, rather than later; so the planet could be IN
the
7th house, or, if the house is relatively small, still in the 8th house ??
[My own experience has proven that even the most trustworthy memory
of ones mother can be off.]
Just try it. - -
Be well,
I.R.Heller
Jyeshta
But in relationships, Mars and Venus are complementary.
It is true that a malefic on the 7th cusp can be a bad thing, but
I'm not sure if that really applies in synastry, plus I only
mentioned two of the synastry placements. By far you do not have
the whole picture of the synastry.
>> But it's the Chaldean house of the Moon - not too incompatible
>> with a Mars placement.
>
>But does this Chaldean house of the moon occupy the same space as the zodiac
>sign Libra ?
No, these are two different conceptual systems. You're talking
about the modern "natural" houses. I was referring to the
ancient Chaldean rulerships of the houses.
>I guess it doesn't. I confess I don't know anything about
>Chaldean houses, but I bet they don't occupy exactly the same regions as the
>signs. What place does this Chaldean house of the moon take up in Libra ?
It doesn't. The Chaldean rulership of the houses follows the
Chaldean order:
Saturn H1
Jupiter H2
Mars H3
Sun H4
Venus H5
Mercury H6
Moon H7
Saturn H8
Jupiter H9
Mars H10
Sun H11
Venus H12
Mercury and the Moon rule only one house each in this system.
>About a third ?
You misunderstood what I was saying, so the above doesn't really
apply, unless we did want to look at the decanates of the signs
ruled by each Chaldean planetary house ruler.
>That just would mean, according to what you are claiming,
>that Mars wouldn't be as badly placed in this "Chaldean house of the moon"
>as it would be in the part of Libra which isn't taken up by this house of
>the moon.
I don't think it's badly placed by either system. Maybe if the
rest of our synastry was awful, it might be, but the rest is
harmonious for the most part.
>Houses of the moon there were agreed to be in Vedic astrology 27 or 28, they
>are probably the same or almost the same in ancient chaldean astrology. But
>perhaps I am confusing a bit.
The Chaldean houses are completely different from the Lunar
Mansions in Vedic astrology.
>Astropophageous
>
>> >Astropophageous
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Veronica
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Veronica
astropophageous
news:fcbn93tl3sp27oopp...@4ax.com...
That's true, but it's the same thing as when you read in classic astrology :
Saturn does this and this. You always have to know the whole chart in order
to be able to reach correct conclusions.
The twelve houses ruled by the planets in the "Chaldean" order ? This sounds
like a weird theory, if you compare to standard astrology. What's the
reasoning behind it ? Obviously, this doesn't fit with the classic house
concepts at all. At first sight, it looks like somone made this up
arbitrarily.
>
> Mercury and the Moon rule only one house each in this system.
>
> >About a third ?
>
> You misunderstood what I was saying, so the above doesn't really
> apply, unless we did want to look at the decanates of the signs
> ruled by each Chaldean planetary house ruler.
>
> >That just would mean, according to what you are claiming,
> >that Mars wouldn't be as badly placed in this "Chaldean house of the
moon"
> >as it would be in the part of Libra which isn't taken up by this house of
> >the moon.
>
> I don't think it's badly placed by either system. Maybe if the
> rest of our synastry was awful, it might be, but the rest is
> harmonious for the most part.
>
> >Houses of the moon there were agreed to be in Vedic astrology 27 or 28,
they
> >are probably the same or almost the same in ancient chaldean astrology.
But
> >perhaps I am confusing a bit.
>
> The Chaldean houses are completely different from the Lunar
> Mansions in Vedic astrology.
OK, that settles it then.
I will take a look at the Chaldean house system ASAP.
Astropophageous
Todd Carnes
"astropophageous" <eebe...@noonoonoo.com> wrote in message
news:469bccc5$0$13859$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
There's nothing "made up" about it, nor is it an arbitrary assignment. In
fact, it's an older system than the so-called "standard astrology" to which
you make reference. The Chaldean order of the planets starts at Saturn &
works its way inward toward the Sun (swapping the Sun & Earth, of course) in
accordance with Summerian & Babylonian astrological sources.
Astropophageous, just because you haven't heard of something, doesn't mean
it's made up.
Todd
astropophageous
news:f7fknu$kf1$03$1...@news.t-online.com...
I suppose that's a possibility, but why are you asking this ? What would it
change ?
Astropophageous
astropophageous
news:f7hbsk$47a$1...@aioe.org...
Todd.... if you really believed I thought this has been made up just because
I never heard of it, you must have a really low opinion of my intellectual
faculties....
I said it LOOKS like someone has made it up arbitrarily... quite a
difference, isn't it ?
So, please don't go read things into what I am saying which I never said nor
implied....
Of course, just as any real astrologer "worth his salt" (not that I actually
consider myself one), I knew that western astrology is very old and has its
roots in Chaldea, Sumeria and Babylon... but that doesn't mean I was aware
of this weird house system. I was acquainted with this planetary order as
well, but not as applied to the houses in this way.
And in fact you didn't answer my question : what's the reasoning behind it ?
Astropophageous
astropophageous
>
> "astropophageous" <eebe...@noonoonoo.com> skrev i melding
> news:469a8f20$0$13856$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> > "~saba gracile~" <vero...@frisurf.no> wrote in news message
> > news:rPadnWX3Dow...@telenor.com...
> >>
> >> "astropophageous" <eebe...@noonoonoo.com> skrev i melding
> >> news:4686717d$0$14237$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> >> > "Jyeshta" <what...@twixtntween.com> wrote in news message
> >> > news:9bc663t7scc193gg3...@4ax.com...
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 15:07:40 -0500, "~saba gracile~"
> >> >> ><vero...@frisurf.no> wrote:
> >> >>
> >
> >> >
> >> > Why would he listen to your advice, with your Mars conjunct his
> > Descendant ?
> >> > I can hardly conceive of a worse place for your Mars for marital
> > harmony.
> >> >
> >> > Astropophageous
> >>
> >> Are we supposed to think like this,
> >
> > Yes you are. :)
>
> huh
Heh. :)
> >
> > a planet doesn't 'fit' in a house because of what it
> >> represents?
> >
> > Just consult the classic astrologers, will you ?
> > I am sure if you check out Lilly (which Todd Carnes here has made
available
> > as a pdf download, and which I myself did only extremely cursorily) he
> > mentions this.
> >
>
> I know about classic astrology, I also know that they fail miserably when
complex
> matters are at hand. One has to see the psychological connection with
what's preferred.
> I have a Pluto'ish love life and emotional power attracts me more than
usual for others,
> I have success with it and I get off of it too (no I'm not a psychopath).
Say, whatever
> sign my partnerhouse would occupy on the cusp, I'd be interested in Pluto
there.
> Wouldn't I?
I wouldn't know... but if you think so....
Do you have Venus/Pluto aspects ?
And I am not sure you can extend the claim that "they fail miserably when
complex matters are at hand" to the whole of classic astrology.
>
>
> > An example. Mars is in its own sign in Aries. That implies that Mars in
the
> > first house is a very good position. Venus is in (sorry if I miss out on
the
> > exact terminology, it's been a while I busied myself with basics) its
fall
> > IIRC in Aries : that means in the first house it's not very good. Not
> > actually bad I suppose as Venus is not a malefic, but it's not as good
as in
> > some other places.
>
> I don't know about terms such as good or bad here. I know folks with Mars
in
> Aries that are complete bullies with no diplomacy what so ever, I cannot
get
> along with them and I dont really want to.
Nobody said people with Mars in Aries can't be bullies.
And we are talking about the houses, not the signs. I still maintain Mars in
the first house is a strong ("good") placement - depending on other factors
such as aspects.
I am mars Libra so it makes my
> hairs stand up when I meet these people's true nature which is abruptly
> hacking away on me(or others) with no breaks on or perspective at all.
See?
> Mars in Aries sucks.
I think you shouldn't put all people with Mars in Aries into the same bag.
If you are anything more than an absolute dilettante in astrology, you
should be well aware that so many factors have to be taken into account that
you can't judge someone on the location of a single planet.
>
> >
> > I would think that Pluto in seventh f.ex. would lead to very powerful
> > partners,
> >> that you may or may not like.. It's too simple to put it this way. Mars
in
> > partner's seventh
> >> is probably a physically active one if they're not the arguing types,
then
> > it could mean
> >> that, yes.
> >
> > Don't forget the seventh house is the house of contracts, agreements but
> > also of open war. Marriage is also a part of it (not because of the
"open
> > war" part, but because it's a contract and an agreement).
> >
> > Mars in the seventh house indicates more disagreement than anything else
> > (IMHO).
>
> I am not hung up on planets in houses, except for perhaps in horary when
dignity
> and placement is very important. In natal and synastry, it goes deeper and
I want
> to see context before I state those things.
I don't think I am particularly hung up on planets in houses. It's just the
basics of astrology, isn't it ?
Astropophageous
~saba gracile~
Yes I do. I have Pluto trine Asc and sextile my Sun, also it's quincunx my
northern node. Moon, Venus, Jupiter in Scorpio as well as my Desc in it,
puts Pluto into my personal life. I have Pluto Novile Venus, which is confirmed in
my declinations where Pluto is contraparallell to Venus, and I also have
Pluto Septile Jupiter.
Pluto is a great helper of mine, I've always had good Virgo friends
(my Pluto is in Virgo), was with one for 9 years, he's still my best helper and
friend. I generally go well with Virgos in a faithful and deep way, they get me
and I have an affinity for them, they turn me on alot, especially Virgo Ascendants.
They are the ones I find teach and heal me the most and they give me the best fu**s. (hehe).
Every time I do Pluto things like cleanse things out totally,
shut out things & people, destroy things or get a little power, act sensually confident or
whatever, it's catapulted and changed my situation for the better.
A shame that its so frightening to actually do those things :0
>
> And I am not sure you can extend the claim that "they fail miserably when
> complex matters are at hand" to the whole of classic astrology.
Like textbook messages you can only go so far with classic symbolism in astrology.
Humans and relationships are complex so taking one aspect or placement and
making this the truth isn't enough. It won't help people make sound decisions though
it's explanatory in many ways. It's simplyfied, which can mislead gravely because
it's not "either or" in real life. In traditional astrology, f.ex. either two persons get along or
not,
that is the choice Traditional Astrology gives us. Which is crazy, because any signs get
along if there's love (look at chiron aspects and think more than two planets, think
configurations and patters of three or more planets and you start getting the picture).
>
>>
>>
>> > An example. Mars is in its own sign in Aries. That implies that Mars in
> the
>> > first house is a very good position. Venus is in (sorry if I miss out on
> the
>> > exact terminology, it's been a while I busied myself with basics) its
> fall
>> > IIRC in Aries : that means in the first house it's not very good. Not
>> > actually bad I suppose as Venus is not a malefic, but it's not as good
> as in
>> > some other places.
>>
>> I don't know about terms such as good or bad here. I know folks with Mars
> in
>> Aries that are complete bullies with no diplomacy what so ever, I cannot
> get
>> along with them and I dont really want to.
>
> Nobody said people with Mars in Aries can't be bullies.
> And we are talking about the houses, not the signs. I still maintain Mars in
> the first house is a strong ("good") placement - depending on other factors
> such as aspects.
I know we talked houses, but why can't the same apply there?
Mars in the first is probably good if you're into athletics for example, but if you're
a Libra with that maybe you're just a quarrelsome and imbearable person (simplifyed,
I exaggerate to make points).
>
> I am mars Libra so it makes my
>> hairs stand up when I meet these people's true nature which is abruptly
>> hacking away on me(or others) with no breaks on or perspective at all.
> See?
>> Mars in Aries sucks.
>
> I think you shouldn't put all people with Mars in Aries into the same bag.
> If you are anything more than an absolute dilettante in astrology, you
> should be well aware that so many factors have to be taken into account that
> you can't judge someone on the location of a single planet.
I didn't put anybody into any bag. This was a point about a planet in its own sign
as compareable to in its ruler house. But I have seen this placement act out this
way in different persons, so it's one of those things one can actually pinpoint, I think.
If we can't pinpoint anything then what's the point of astrology at all? It has nothing
to do with judging anybody.
>
>>
>> >
>> > I would think that Pluto in seventh f.ex. would lead to very powerful
>> > partners,
>> >> that you may or may not like.. It's too simple to put it this way. Mars
> in
>> > partner's seventh
>> >> is probably a physically active one if they're not the arguing types,
> then
>> > it could mean
>> >> that, yes.
>> >
>> > Don't forget the seventh house is the house of contracts, agreements but
>> > also of open war. Marriage is also a part of it (not because of the
> "open
>> > war" part, but because it's a contract and an agreement).
>> >
>> > Mars in the seventh house indicates more disagreement than anything else
>> > (IMHO).
>>
>> I am not hung up on planets in houses, except for perhaps in horary when
> dignity
>> and placement is very important. In natal and synastry, it goes deeper and
> I want
>> to see context before I state those things.
>
> I don't think I am particularly hung up on planets in houses. It's just the
> basics of astrology, isn't it ?
Sure, we need those first. But when are we going to extend beyond textbook matters,
God knows one needs intuition and understanding to get further than that in astrology.
Veronica
>
> Astropophageous
>
I. R. Heller
houses "make you" a different person.
Try it with your own chart with a time-difference to yours of
up to *minus* 80 minutes in increments of 10 minutes
(medical research had shown that there is a maximum up to
minus 82 minutes of time difference than that reported.
Most of the planets will land in different houses.
Does this chart still "fit" your personallity ??
Or does it "fit" even better now ??
I used to have a chart which "did not fit", thus I was very sceptical, but
curious enough to dig and find out why this could be so and still
astrologers would claim that astrology "works".
A very good friend and astrology-researcher had found out that most
people claiming to "remember" when that baby was born, but they
did so *after* the event had been several minutes in the past (after
everyone knew the baby was alright, the mother too :-)
So most birth-minutes given are AFTER the effect.
My friend suggested to go backwards 10 minutes at the time. I did and
ended up with a total of 20 minutes (10 minutes had not been enough to
change the planets into the "right" positions. Now the chart fit.
Many - many years later I came across my original birth certificate
where it showed that my birthtime was 15 minutes earlier than what my
mother had "recorded in her diary.
No wonder the chart "fit" my (felt) personality now.
BTW: The extra 5 minutes, from - 15 to - 20 minutes had not made a
difference in the "fitting" of the chart. Regarding the events - which are
used to otherwise rectify a chart, I never bothered with my own chart.
Thus we can "rectify" many charts and make them "fit".
This is easier with politicians or other VIPs, than with total
strangers/clients,
as we already know so much of the VIPs personalities and lives in general..
This is when we can truly say "S/he is living her/his chart."
We can then attempt to "predict" when a problem situation could
possibly come to an end (a transit going into the next house).
Of course, like with chart-relocation, the aspects between the planets
will not change. - -
Thatæ„€ all. Try it.
Be well,
I.R.Heller
astropophageous
> ThatŽs all. Try it.
> Be well,
> I.R.Heller
>
I.R., I know about chart rectification.
My question referred to the issue at hand, which was a difference of opinion about significance and importance of mundane house placements.
Astropophageous