Pluto-Sun in synastry
Pamela Gross
I don't do much synastry normally...friends want these things for the
holidays I guess ;)
All three couples have Sun in one chart conjunct Pluto in the other.
One of them has it 23 minutes apart, one 1 degree 7 minutes, the third
2 degrees 33 minutes.
And the sun is transiting my own natal Pluto as we speak.
Synchronicity? ;)
anyway, I'd post the charts if I had permission, but don't...at
least, not yet. I think getting three of them with this aspect
between them is bizarre. I also don't know what to tell them about
this aspect; I only know negative things and it *is* Christmas!
Pam
Pluto-ruled
--
Pamela Gross
be...@ix.netcom.com * http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1962
Rheumatic Disease Web Site!!! http://www.silcom.com/~sblc/
Sudo
wrote:
>I've been given three sets of charts to do: one yesterday, two today.
>I don't do much synastry normally...friends want these things for the
>holidays I guess ;)
>
>All three couples have Sun in one chart conjunct Pluto in the other.
>One of them has it 23 minutes apart, one 1 degree 7 minutes, the third
>2 degrees 33 minutes.
>
>And the sun is transiting my own natal Pluto as we speak.
>Synchronicity? ;)
>
>anyway, I'd post the charts if I had permission, but don't...at
>least, not yet. I think getting three of them with this aspect
>between them is bizarre. I also don't know what to tell them about
>this aspect; I only know negative things and it *is* Christmas!
>
>Pam
>Pluto-ruled
Hi Pam,
Some of the things I would expect from Sun/Pluto synastry:
* Pluto having a "hypnotic" effect upon the one with the Sun
* Pluto insisting that the Sun change (reform?) their ways
* Possible struggle for dominance (if both are 'strong' types)
* Sun probably having to settle for a submissive role, if the
relationship is to continue
The Pluto side would probably 'wear the pants' in the family,
or at least 'rule the roost'. If the Sun can handle this, and
Pluto isn't an abusive sort, this arrangement could work fine.
Ron
pegas...@my-dejanews.com
I've been in web dezine hell for a few months so havn't had time to visit
newsgroups. Nice to see this moderated list. Congrats to whoever created it.
amazing to see the edward wollman war still a blaze. And I think I need a
life. Any way, being the queen of Pluto, self proclaimed, as my
interpertation of my own chart is that it is ruled by pluto, couldn't resist
this string. The issue I would see is that the Sun people have an opportunity
to transform their will and basic soul energy through these relationships.
The Plutonians will have to take a strong look at how they use or misuse
power, as well as what they give power to. Is the woman the partner with the
pluto in question, and does she use her sexuality to manipulate her partner?
Does she do so after having asked herself if her goals are in fact the most
loving goals for the partnership as well as for both partners? Rather than
this aspect give answers, I see it as presenting questions. Of course without
house placements, aspects to other planets, placement in composite charts,
etc., etc., I don't see how it can be interperated as meaning anything in
particular. i am reminded of one of my clients who. like most of my clients,
came to me through a major Pluto transit. She had strong Pluto issues in her
chart. when it was all over, she visited me with a friend who had just
finished the same transit, yet had no Pluto issue natally. The friend didn't
experience much of anything with the transit. Whereas my client came close to
suicide. The most interesting part of your question is your current transit.
How fortunate for you that the universe is adding to your opportunity to
transform. Peas, diane of The Sanctuary It does seem as if you, (Pamela) are
learning some Pluto lessons.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
teri ornell
Check out the strength of the Sun in all 3 charts and then look at Pluto,
to see if they're on equal footing. If the Sun native has Pluto in
opposition & square to several personal planets, then this could indicate
ambivalence, or a complete rejection of the Pluto principle-the results
here could be an attraction-repulsion element that leads to
disharmony-they may bring out the worst in each other. If the Sun native
is also a Scorpio rising, and let's say their Pluto is also in conj. to
the M.C., then they may feel exhilarated by a Sun/Pluto combination.
Another variation of the same theme: if the Sun's chart has Pluto in the
12th, and the Pluto person has Pluto in the 1st and is Plutonian in every
way, then this might be too difficult for the 12th house p. to handle. Not
everyone appreciates someone rummaging around their basement.... Look at
the house in which A's Pluto conjuncts B's Sun. Think about how Pluto
might benefit the Sun. Is the Sun expressing it's inherent attributes?
Does this person need a house cleaning? What conflicts are unresolved?
Let's say that I have Sun in my 1st house, and typify Saturn in every
possible way. I'm very self disciplined. What type of person might be
drawn to me? A person with Saturn in the 7th, because they need to be
disciplined from others. Or someone with Saturn in the 12th. (assuming the
Saturn principle is repressed) Both scenarios could lead to conflicts as
well as growth. So determining the person's needs, would be a good place
to start. Look at the sign/ruler of their 7th house to get a feel for
their shadow-side and then check the luminaries and Venus/Mars.
Sun/Pluto is complicated because the Sun at it's core is pure-it's like a
never-ending dance, and Pluto, well, Pluto isn't interested in
experiencing life in the here and now. Pluto sacrafices life to the idea:
(Doebereiner) the dance, from a Plutonian perspective is superficial,
unless it serves some pre-conceived idea or belief, which is why Sun/Pluto
in my opinion is one of the suicide constellations par excellence.
I wouldn't get stuck on this one aspect, there are so many others to
consider.
Coleen
Pamela Gross wrote:
> I've been given three sets of charts to do: one yesterday, two today.
> I don't do much synastry normally...friends want these things for the
> holidays I guess ;)
>
> All three couples have Sun in one chart conjunct Pluto in the other.
> One of them has it 23 minutes apart, one 1 degree 7 minutes, the third
> 2 degrees 33 minutes.
>
> And the sun is transiting my own natal Pluto as we speak.
> Synchronicity? ;)
>
> anyway, I'd post the charts if I had permission, but don't...at
> least, not yet. I think getting three of them with this aspect
> between them is bizarre. I also don't know what to tell them about
> this aspect; I only know negative things and it *is* Christmas!
>
> Pam
> Pluto-ruled
>
HB
teri ornell wrote in message <366E8BBD...@ix.netcom.com>...
>unless it serves some pre-conceived idea or belief, which is why Sun/Pluto
>in my opinion is one of the suicide constellations par excellence.
>
>
okay..I'll bite<G> why on earth is Sun/Pluto suicidal? Are you speaking
natally or by transit or in synastry? I know way too many sun/pluto's
including myself(I'm a conjunction) and the strength and will power is
immense. How do you get suicidal? Am I misunderstanding the comment? The few
people I've known through friends of clients that committed suicide were
both sun/Neptunes....
Thanks
HB
teri ornell
in my opinion, Sun/Pluto is *one* of the astrological signatures that can
indicate suicidal thoughts or suicide. I think it's an error to think that
Sun/Pluto aspects always indicate a strong will or strength-it can also have a
flip side and move through sinister channels. More on that another time....The
act of suicide is the will asserting itself in a very powerful, self-destructive
way, afterall, the person takes the power of life in his/her own hands, a power
which belongs to the providence of G-d and not human beings. What is it that
drives serial killers to kill? The moment of power/control they feel when they
make that decision to take someone's life. Pluto sacrifices life for the sake
of an idea, concept, ideology, obsession or whatever. When the idea becomes more
important than life itself, (in this case let's take suicidal idealization) then
the drive to completely self-destruct negates the principle of life and wins the
battle: the will directs its actions to fulfill the idea and the possibility to
experience life is extinguished. A prime example of Pluto/Sun would be the
kamikaze (sp?) pilots of Japan, and presently suicide bombers in the Middle East
who sacrifice their lives for the sake of a plan.
You write that the Sun/Plutos' you know exhibit immense will power and
strength. What is will power? In my book it means the ability to act or not act
on one's desires, thoughts, and ideas. It has an element of control, and control
falls under the domain of Pluto and has many negative connotations too. For some
people, humility is indicative of great strength, so alot depends on how you
define power. I'm getting the feeling that power to you means professional
accomplishments and winning, perhaps I'm wrong.
Coleen
biff
comparative conjunction. A clash of wills could result from the Sun
person's attempt to dominate. They have to respect each other's freedom.
I think they would be a great combination to remold their environment in
areas of mutual interest. If there's any Fifth House indicators here
they could have some good sexual attraction. They probably have already
discovered that.
Biff
HB
clients and friends I think I've encountered this many because I am one and
usually you draw similar energy to yourself...at least I have. I'm a
Scorpionic magnet<VBG>. Yes I agree with you that "certain" sun/pluto types
can be sinister...but there are so many variables...such as is it a
conjunction, square, or opposition....how are the aspects to it and also is
it angular or what house is this located in... The later of the
three.(square and opposition) types I have found to be more negative in
nature...The conjunctions no.(and I'm not just saying that because I am one)
My sun/pluto conjunction is sextile Neptune...very different flavor and
outcome if you will. I fight for fairness (mars in Libra on the ascendant)
and for the underdog(sextile to Neptune). I fight for those that cannot help
themselves. In other words I wield my sword for "causes" if you will. That
willpower that I spoke of is the power to go on where others fear to tread.
For instance I pulled a mother and her child out of a burning car when I was
very young. Most people would not run to a burning car and risk their life
to save two total strangers. I did. I also have another sun/pluto conj.
friend who went into a gully in California to rescue people as well from a
car crash.
The conjunction is a first house connotation...the "I" if you will...
much more productive in society than the opposition or square. I have known
hundreds...as I said of sun/pluto's in my life and no suicidal thoughts ever
entered their heads. So I can speak with conviction. LOL you are talking to
a sun/pluto after all and it's not that I'm trying to be difficult...I just
see no evidence of what you are saying at all. BTW success in business has
nothing to do with willpower...nothing.Willpower is the willingness to go
the extra mile when others give up. Willpower is getting things done for
people and society that others said couldn't be done....and that doesn't
mean it's all about money.
Take Care
HB
HB
the post) (a missed keystroke isn't fatal my dear).hmmm. oh well...any
way....I appreciate and respect your opinions...albeit a bit over
reactive...If we all agreed on everything in life the world would be an
unusual place indeed. I don't see that saving two lives is akin to "a cause"
they are human beings and living rather than dying is not " a cause" I've
never met someone that would denounce someone for saving two peoples lives
and refer to that person as a kamikaze..wow..(but I guess there's a first
time for everything).... and if that mother and daughter were here in this
group....they would tell you the same. You're not a very caring person. For
that I am sorry.
BTW this is not alt.astrology.I came here for some peace and to discuss
astrology. If my posts bother you.,please use the killfile. BTW, why would I
call you stupid? You're merely expressing your opinion.Oh, my behavior in
A.A. is why I came in here. I also happened to thank Gail for forming this
group. About the only sarcastic remark you will get is that I've never had
to deal with such vile people as I did in that group, and I will not
apologize for defending myself from the insanity in there. It's also why I
left that group.I'm sick of it and don't wish it to continue in here.
Thanks,
HB
C wrote in message <74mqmk$e8b8$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
>
>HB wrote in message <74mlau$5n0$1...@news.orbitworld.net>...
>>Terri..in my life I have encountered hundreds of sun/pluto people..
>
>It amazes me how someone can respond to another person and totally ignore
>who they are-and then misspell a name which was inaccurate to begin with.
>That aside, you write that you have encountered hundreds of Sun/Pluto
people
>in your life, (since I've been reading your posts, I have to admit that
you
>do have a slight tendency to boast-there were times when I was wondering
>whether the scales weren't tipping in the direction of megalomania) so how
>do I know that you're being truthful? The last thing I want to do is take
>away the trophies that you believe are rightfully yours: a strong Mercury
>which you feel is indicative of intelligience, and a Sun/Pluto which makes
>you a sort of social/corporate giant for the needy (?) and Mars/Asc., the
>astrological amazon) Sorry, but I can't help being truthful, if you want to
>turn around and call me stupid, that's o.k., you have already built up my
>immunity to not allow that sort of stuff intimidate me. I don't dislike
you,
>I have to admit that three people in my life whom I love dearly, happen to
>be Virgo's with Libra rising. Two of them, are in my opinion narcissistic,
>they are also all extremely good looking.
>
>(snip)
>
>>My sun/pluto conjunction is sextile Neptune...very different flavor and
>>outcome if you will. I fight for fairness (mars in Libra on the ascendant)
>>and for the underdog(sextile to Neptune).
>
>Yes, this was especially obvious at alt.astrology.
>
>I fight for those that cannot help
>>themselves. In other words I wield my sword for "causes" if you will.
>
>How does this differ from what I have said?
>
> That
>>willpower that I spoke of is the power to go on where others fear to
tread.
>>For instance I pulled a mother and her child out of a burning car when I
>was
>>very young. Most people would not run to a burning car and risk their life
>>to save two total strangers. I did. I also have another sun/pluto conj.
>>friend who went into a gully in California to rescue people as well from a
>>car crash.
>
>Sounds like very risky and honorable behavior, not unlike some of the
>kamikaze pilots
>who risked their lives for a cause.
>>
>>The conjunction is a first house connotation...the "I" if you will...
>>much more productive in society than the opposition or square.
>
>The 'I' derives it's sense of self from being attached to an idealogy or
>cause. WIthout something to grasp onto the Sun/Pluto person feels lost.
>
>I have known
>>hundreds...as I said of sun/pluto's in my life and no suicidal thoughts
>ever
>>entered their heads.
>
>Gee, what magical ability do you possess to be able to read a person's
mind?
>Are you now saying that
>the hundreds represent you?
>
> So I can speak with conviction.
>
>Sounds convincing to me, however, I stay with my premise and I will prove
>you wrong. Just give
>me some time to collect the information. :-)
>
> LOL you are talking to
>>a sun/pluto after all and it's not that I'm trying to be difficult...I
just
>>see no evidence of what you are saying at all.
>
>Seems to me you are a bit defensive, anyway, I said that Sun/Pluto is only
>*one* aspect that can lead
>to suicide. Your chart looks for the most part harmonious to me.
>
>BTW success in business has
>>nothing to do with willpower...nothing.Willpower is the willingness to go
>>the extra mile when others give up. Willpower is getting things done for
>>people and society that others said couldn't be done....and that doesn't
>>mean it's all about money.
>
>Yes, just what I said, you define will by what one is capable of
>accomplishing. You further associate will
>with the ability to take risks to accomplish goals which you feel are
>worthy. O.k., I define will as the precursor to freedom. And I believe
Plato
>said that will stands between reason and the appetites, which is an
>excellent defination.
>>
>>Take Care
>>
>>HB
>>
>You too,
>
>Coleen
>>
>
>
HB
hard to tell who's real and who's not in newsgroups...heck everyone changes
their names on a daily basis.. I'm a little snippier these days with my life
in a whirlwind...hence the comment (which I see the post hasn't shown up
yet) That Pluto is far from superficial!! LOL I just got carpal tunnel last
Saturday out of the blue and I'm really irritable with it being of course in
my right hand so I'm crrrrrraaankkeeeee!!! LOL
Sorry if I was snotty...it's one of those days.
Thanks Coleen
HB
HB
>
>>Pluto, well, Pluto isn't interested in
>experiencing life in the here and now
It isn't? hmmmm.Okay. It doesn't get anymore here and now than Pluto.
. Pluto sacrafices life to the idea:
>(Doebereiner) the dance, from a Plutonian perspective is superficial,
Superficial? Pluto? Pluto is about as far as you can get from superficial.
If you're in to reading you might want to read some books on Pluto. Jeff
Green has written some great ones.
>unless it serves some pre-conceived idea or belief, which is why Sun/Pluto
>in my opinion is one of the suicide constellations par excellence.
???
>
>I wouldn't get stuck on this one aspect, there are so many others to
>consider.
yeppers that's correct.
>
>Coleen
Who is Teri Ornell?
qtzc...@spamfree.texas.net
wrote:
Colleen,
(or is it teri??)
Way cool Pluto stuff below from you.
Just a couple of questions.
I, along with several of my friends, have Pluto in 1, or conjunct the
asc from 12. Of the 6 of us, 4 are flutists (2 are youngsters,
students of mine, they have Pluto in Scorpio), two of us have it in
Leo (the professional musicians), and the other 2 are involved with
religion (my pastor, and my religious cousin, who is also handicapped)
- they have Pluto in Virgo.
My flutist friend has it conj the asc from 12 - 2 degrees away, my
pastor has it 1 degree away, in 12 as well. the flutist is Sco - with
Leo rising/Moon/Pluto. The pastor is CancerSun/Moon aries/ Virgo
rising/ Pluto in Vir. (I think I'm repeating myself... :))
I see the 2 above as incredibly powerful, intelligent, talented women.
Both, unsurprisingly, have had trouble with men in authority...
The third who has Pluto in 12 conj the asc is a student of mine. She
is Taurus, with Libra moon/rising, Pluto in Sco (00), 8.5 deg away
from the Moon. Plu is Rx, and this girl is **spacey**. I've never
known someone who has such a hard time focusing, getting down to the
matter at hand... she's the typical A student who was flunking 3
classes because there was just too much going on for her to get her
homework done.
Actually, have a look at her chart: May 12, 84, 5:17pm EDT
Philadelphia, PA 39N57 75W10
I haven't seen so many retrograde planets in one chart ever!
Merc, Venus and Chiron are the only direct planets! (well, plus the
Sun and Moon, of course..)
But... I digress.
What do you make of a first house Pluto, *not* conj the asc? How does
that manifest, to you? What about the conjunction from 12?
Thanks for reading my meanderings...
qtzcoatl.
>never-ending dance, and Pluto, well, Pluto isn't interested in
>experiencing life in the here and now. Pluto sacrafices life to the idea:
>(Doebereiner) the dance, from a Plutonian perspective is superficial,
>unless it serves some pre-conceived idea or belief, which is why Sun/Pluto
>in my opinion is one of the suicide constellations par excellence.
>
>I wouldn't get stuck on this one aspect, there are so many others to
>consider.
>
teri ornell
qtzc...@SPAMFREE.texas.net wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:35:34 CST, teri ornell <te...@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
> Colleen,
> (or is it teri??)
Hi qtzcoat,
It's Coleen. Teri is my sister.
>
> Way cool Pluto stuff below from you.
> Just a couple of questions.
> I, along with several of my friends, have Pluto in 1, or conjunct the
> asc from 12. Of the 6 of us, 4 are flutists (2 are youngsters,
> students of mine, they have Pluto in Scorpio), two of us have it in
> Leo (the professional musicians), and the other 2 are involved with
> religion (my pastor, and my religious cousin, who is also handicapped)
> - they have Pluto in Virgo.
> My flutist friend has it conj the asc from 12 - 2 degrees away, my
> pastor has it 1 degree away, in 12 as well. the flutist is Sco - with
> Leo rising/Moon/Pluto. The pastor is CancerSun/Moon aries/ Virgo
> rising/ Pluto in Vir. (I think I'm repeating myself... :))
>
> I see the 2 above as incredibly powerful, intelligent, talented women.
> Both, unsurprisingly, have had trouble with men in authority...
>
> The third who has Pluto in 12 conj the asc is a student of mine. She
> is Taurus, with Libra moon/rising, Pluto in Sco (00), 8.5 deg away
> from the Moon. Plu is Rx, and this girl is **spacey**. I've never
> known someone who has such a hard time focusing, getting down to the
> matter at hand... she's the typical A student who was flunking 3
> classes because there was just too much going on for her to get her
> homework done.
I remember my teaching telling me that it's easy to identify a Libra rising
because they stare holes into the air. What comes to my mind is that they move
at such leisure, not a bit of haste is evident in their movements. They are
usually the slowest in the class even when they're the brightest. Their eyes
are often luminous and dreamy, (not unlike a Pisces, Venus being the lower
octave of Neptune) & focused on some invisible point in the distance, you
wonder whether they're sunk in thoughts or just spacey. When they're children,
you have to remind them to act,"heh, did you forget, we're taking a walk now,
and that means you have to move one foot after the other." :-) I'll check out
her chart.
As for Pluto in the 1st, well, I have it myself, although it's on close to the
2nd H.cusp. I'm a double Leo, and my father is a Scorpio Sun/Moon/Mercury, so I
supposed I inherited this element from him. I'll save that for later too, as I
really want to let this image of the flutist and religious piety go through my
head awhile.
qtzc...@spamfree.texas.net
wrote:
I have a *huge* grin on my face, writing this - you've nailed my
student!! Any ideas what may be going on in that head of hers? Any
suggestions as to how to deal with her? How to get her off square one?
I also have a good friend who's Libra Sun, rising, and Aqu Moon, and
even at 45 I can see the above in her... but not nearly as strongly as
in my student.
I just read the above description to her mother - who was dying
laughing... :D
>As for Pluto in the 1st, well, I have it myself, although it's on close to the
>2nd H.cusp. I'm a double Leo, and my father is a Scorpio Sun/Moon/Mercury, so I
>supposed I inherited this element from him. I'll save that for later too, as I
>really want to let this image of the flutist and religious piety go through my
>head awhile.
Just to clarify - the 2 women with Pluto conj the asc from 12 are:
Sco sun/Leo Moon, asc, and Pluto in Leo = flutist, who isn't
particularily religious
Cancer sun/Aries Moon/ Virgo rising/ Pluto in Virgo = pastor, amazing
spiritual person (not conventional in beliefs), is quite musically
talented (but doesn't think so...), gifted writer.
jeri...@circlesoflight.com
be...@ix.netcom.com (Pamela Gross) wrote:
> All three couples have Sun in one chart conjunct Pluto in the other.
> One of them has it 23 minutes apart, one 1 degree 7 minutes, the third
> 2 degrees 33 minutes.
I've read all the posts in this thread and guess I'll go for it. My Sun, his
Pluto at 9 Virgo. 16min between them. I have a natal Mars/Pluto conj in Leo
and he's got a moon/mars/neptune/mercury stellium in Scorpio. We've been
living together for 2 1/2 years and yes, there are dominance issues. However,
I can't help but feel that when you've got 2 people living out of their
Plutos, they're going to seek out a Plutonic relationship. And when it's that
tight, it's a force of nature, not easily stopped.
So far this is working probably because of my Saturn/Neptune conj on his
Libra sun, our moons are in exact trine, my Mars/Pluto is conj his
Uranus/North Node in the 8th and my Aqu. north node in the 7th. There's a
strong intention to make it work. Dominance factors stay sort of
balanced???????????? I think.
--
virgojeri
Love is everywhere. I somehow manage to function in spite of this.
Circles of Light Webzine
http://www.circlesoflight.com
Sudo
It does seem like the "combination" could go far, doesn't it. Kind of
like a "dynamic duo" that could accomplish more together, than they
could as individuals. Of course, they'd have to get their own house
in order first.
Ron
Pamela Gross
Now a lot of this stuff is good Christmastime material...:)
love to you all
Pam
--
Pamela Gross
be...@ix.netcom.com * http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1962
Rheumatic Disease Web Site!!! http://www.silcom.com/~sblc/
Joyeux Noel et Bonne Annee
teri ornell
qtzc...@SPAMFREE.texas.net wrote:
>
> I have a *huge* grin on my face, writing this - you've nailed my
> student!! Any ideas what may be going on in that head of hers? Any
> suggestions as to how to deal with her? How to get her off square one?
Dear qtzcoatl,
I find Zohar's suggestions perfect:
"In dealing with people born between these dates you must be very refined and
gentle. Talk in a calm, dignified, low voice, and the more beautiful language you
use in expressing yourself, so much more impressed will any native of this sign be.
These folks are usually very greatful for any kindness shown them and seldom forget
a "good turn." They are not, as a rule, susceptible to flattery, so you must depend
on logic and diplomacy. They possess a keen sense of justice which should be
"played up" in your conversation." She has a strong Pluto, so authenticity on your
part would also be crucial, as she would probably see through any form of
manipulation.
>
>
> >> What do you make of a first house Pluto, *not* conj the asc? How does
> >> that manifest, to you?
I would say that the drive to assert one's identity or the need for self realization
would be magnified. The person would most likely be dependent on a concrete plan on
how to go about this, as opposed to someone who takes the path of least resistance
and is perhaps more dependent on what's happening around them.
> What about the conjunction from 12?
I would say that the whole chart would have to be analyzed in order to determine
how this placement will affect the person's identity.