Natal Mars--Saturn Oppositions
Edvins Augusts
oppositions.
I have lately realized that two women whom I know have this aspect, one
has it 1 deg. 3 min from exact, the others is 2 deg, 21 min. from
exact.
I notice that they both seem to like the presence of harsh, dictatorial,
"bad guys" in their vicinity. They seem to almost court them, or at the
very least, do not wish to disassociate themselves from them and the
little 'world' where these "bad guys" hang out. They seem to like
something in their "vibes", even when -- especially when -- the "bad
guys" have made themselves obnoxious in various innocent and malicious
ways.
Now, what I'm wondering is, have you seen this same tendency in folks
you know who have Mars in close opposition to Saturn? And what is it
about Mars--Saturn that causes what I have observed as a gravitation
toward immature if not dangerous males?
And what is the principle that is manifested this way by the "MA--SA
opp" aspect?
The best I've been able to come up with is that MARS, symbolizing raw
energy and courage, a kind of irrepressible force, "slams up against"
SATURN, a kind of "immovable object". Perhaps Saturn drains Mars of a
lot of courage and energy, sometimes through situations which the owners
of these aspects have no power over. One person has been the victim of
a chronic debilitating disease for more than 20 years; I note in her
chart that the 3 planets 'highest' in the chart, (Midheaven and 9th
House) are Uranus, Pluto, and Mars. Perhaps this helps explain her
ongoing health difficulties which she very often speaks about as having
sabotaged her career and, of course, her peace of mind.
The other, who has the closer aspect, (1 deg. 03'), fled from youthful
problems in the U.S. to a remote Scandinavian location and has lived a
taciturn, not-wholly-functional life there ever since. Her Mars in
Cancer and Saturn in Capricorn are both angular (7th and 1st,
respectively), (although the first house Saturn is somewhat eased by
Jupiter being closer to the Ascendant, though out of range of a
planetary conj). Additionally, her Venus is conj Saturn and opp Mars.
When I say "not totally functional".... Neither woman has had a
marriage or had children, for instance. Anything in Mars opp Saturn
that would contribute to this potential result? (Of course, Mars in
Cancer in one's chart is itself not the best indicator in that regard in
a female chart, is it?) Let us speak generally of this one particular
aspect. I know that the other data in their charts is required to
really get exact information. But surely a general principle can be
drawn from nothing more than the fact that both have Mars closely
opposing Saturn! Neither seems to have had a "real" career,
either. Both females, by the way, show quite a bit of interest in
Astrology, perhaps originally because Astrology helped explain the road
blocks to success in their lives.
This is one thing I have observed which may be Mars--Saturn related:
BOTH women enjoy "swimming amongst sharks", so to speak. They seem to
crave the company, NOT of their peers and 'betters', but of those who
are somewhat farther down on the evolutionary ladder than themselves. I
hope I am not being unfair in this observaiton. They like to be around
men who display power and control, but on the other hand, (and this is
strange!) such men seem to regard them as equals and leave them alone,
so the Mars--Saturn aspect is a genuine asset in that regard. Men who
have never really grown up and sometimes act like bullies and thugs do
not go into battle against these Mars--Saturn ladies, there seems to be
mutual respect, there. I find it fascinating that Mars--Saturn in
malefic aspect could bring in certain types of "unevolved" friends and
hangers-on into their lives while rejecting males who are more subtle,
complex, and mature.
I will continue this with quotes from a few authors in a subsequent
post. Your thoughts about Mars--Saturn opps are much appreciated, as
this is something I want to brainstorm and "figure out" while two
examples of the energy are right here before me.
Thank again, --e.a.
ALT.ASTROLOGY.MODERATED
"where they care enough....
to say only the very best!"
Ray Murphy
----------
In article <3bb7...@news2.lightlink.com>,
cbwi...@adore.lightlink.com (CB Willis) wrote:
>Edvins wrote:
>>I would appreciate your feedback today about natal Mars--Saturn
>>oppositions.
RM: Personally, I make very little distinction between the hard
aspects (and conjunction) of MA/SA
The most common theme which I have had confirmed very frequently with
all of those aspects, is a desire to achieve to impress the father or
to fulfill the father's wishes.
Very often the father is "missing" somehow, but that does not stop the
person fulfilling the goals that they have set, or have been set for
them.
Ray
SeaGtGruff
potentials. After all, not only can trines and sextiles be misused or
squandered, but squares and oppositions can be spurs to great achievements.
I have the AstroDatabank database, so I searched for women with "AA" birth data
who have a Mars-Saturn opposition within a 5-degree orb. Not all of the women
found are famous, of course, but following are the public figures I've heard
of:
Brigitte Bardot -- model and actress
Mars in Leo in the 8th House
Saturn in Aquarius in the 2nd House (traditional domicile)
Carol Channing -- actress
Mars in Pisces in the 6th House
Saturn in Virgo in the 12th House
Sheena Easton -- singer and entertainer
Mars in Cancer in the 10th House (fall)
Saturn in Capricorn in the 4th House (domicile)
Farrah Fawcett -- model and actress
Mars in Aquarius in the 8th House
Saturn in Leo in the 2nd House (traditional domicile)
Amy Grant -- singer
Mars in Cancer in the 2nd House (fall)
Saturn in Capricorn in the 8th House (domicile)
Carol Lawrence -- actress and singer
Mars in Cancer in the 7th House (fall)
Saturn in Capricorn in the 1st House (domicile)
Julie London -- singer and actress
Mars in Taurus in the 2nd House
Saturn in Scorpio in the 8th House
Lana Turner -- actress
Mars in Pisces in the 10th House
Saturn in Virgo in the 4th House
>From this list, it's obvious that Mars opposite Saturn does *not* preclude
success. If anything, I would think that it can give a desire to overcome
obstacles, and the personal strength needed to do so.
Michael Rideout
Christine
SeaGtGruff <seagt...@aol.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
20011001224909...@mb-mc.aol.com...
[..]
I searched for women with "AA" birth data
[...]
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed a resemblance :-)
> >From this list, it's obvious that Mars opposite Saturn does *not*
preclude
> success. If anything, I would think that it can give a desire to overcome
> obstacles, and the personal strength needed to do so.
>
> Michael Rideout
>
======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Note -- "AA" is a Lois Rodden data rating, meaning "from a birth certificate, hospital records, or other document." It was *not* meant as an abbreviation for a newsgroup! -- Michael Rideout
Edvins Augusts
SeaGtGruff wrote:
This beats my ramshackle "Circle Book of Charts" data all to blazes! I like the
way you organized this.
Your use of the word "domicile" in the sense that you append "domicile" next to
Saturn in Capricorn in the 1st and 4th and 8th is very interesting and may not be
readily apparent to some new readers. You mean that Saturn is the natural ruler
of the sign Capricorn, and, anciently, the sign Aquarius, as well. (Although is
"Saturn in Leo -- traditional domicile" a typo? Mars in Aquarius is just above
it, perhaps they were reversed?) I think it is very appropriate that you pointed
out that these very successful women who endured the Mars--Saturn opposition, had
much stronger positions for their Saturns than one would expect to see by mere
chance alone -- One would expect to see Saturn in Capricorn once in 12 charts;
here it is, three times in only eight charts! 1/12 by sheer probability vs 3/8
actual occurrence seems like it could be statistically significant, if more
examples could be gathered.
I just realized that Saturn in Capricorn means these three women in question also
had Mars in Cancer. Which conjures in my mind a denial or repression of the
maternal (Cancerian -- Moon-ruled) self. Perhaps Mars in Cancer / Saturn in
Capricorn is a specific recipe for steering a woman away from "home and hearth and
childrearing" to the successful "Hollywood"-type successes these ladies
enjoyed! If anyone knows more about the tempestuous nature of some of their
biographies, that might make helpful reading. --e.a.
>
>
> Michael Rideout
je
that might explain this and other things that are in any chart.
A lot of times people look for a quality in a relationship, that they do
not have or for some psycological reason deny in their selves. Or they
project onto the other person what they deny in their own personalities.
For example if they can not express their anger, they may pick an angry
person to have a relationship with.
Now in this case of an opposition there is a pulling in two different
directions. The passion of Mars and stability of Saturn, etc. And these
will pull till there is some kind of intergration of the two. In a case
such as this, could the native, be looking for that intergration in a
relationship. Or could they be picking one relationship to express one
side of the opposition and picking another relationship to express the
other side.
I don't know if this does happen on a chat. Would like feed back if any
one has noticed this in clients charts.
Since these natives was drawing in a particular types of personalities,
it might be well to see if they have something common with their
Venuses.
Join the rally or pray for peace. If not ready to pray for peace, pray
for the victims. This will defeat the terroists faster than blood. Rally
Sept 29 Noon EST. Jean
Donna Wightman
10th house, but I have also have them both in square to my Libra Sun in the
7th house.
My birth data is from my birth certificate:
09-30-1960
05:09 PM PST
Bakersfield, CA. 119'01'07W - 35'22'04N
For me this opposition has played out mostly through parental issues (4th
versus 10th houses) and all the baggage that we carry from them. So I would
say that you need to know which houses this opposition takes place in to get
accurate analysis.
I am willing to answer personal questions to anyone who is studying this
aspect.
Sincerely,
Donna Wightman
Goofball
<mysti...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I would appreciate your feedback today about natal Mars--Saturn
>oppositions.
[snip]
To put it in plain words, a person with Mars opposite Saturn comes on
too strong while interacting with another person. "Let's do this
now..." e.g. while the other person may delay or act the planner.
Mars opposite Saturn wants everything way too much in the moment,
inviting restraint. In other words, the person experiences
frustration through his interaction with "another".
As far as life success - well, it sure hasn't hurt Michael Jordan too
much. :)