synastry -- venus/saturn & saturn/moon, Mid heaven
bcom...@ea.com
his saturn is conjunct my midheaven & moon
my saturn is conjunct his venus
sounds like a lousy combo; am I right?
thanks
CFA咖dosa.alt.net
Not necessarily. Saturn contacts like this are "the ties that bind".
Sometimes these relationships are slow to get started, or there may
seem insurmountable obstacles. But if they make it, they tend to
endure. My Saturn is on my wife's Venus, hers is on my Mars.
>thanks
Ken
--
kizer at mindspring dot com
Center for Awareness at
www dot mindspring dot com/~kizer
Marc
bcom...@ea.com wrote:
> I'm curious about these aspects in synastry:
>
> his saturn is conjunct my midheaven & moon
> my saturn is conjunct his venus
>
> sounds like a lousy combo; am I right?
>
Based only on what you've given I'd have to agree, at least for an
emotionalrelationship.
Check out "Your Ideal Companion" by Helen Garrett, $3.25 at
www.astroamerica.com
> thanks
Gail Klein
>I'm curious about these aspects in synastry:
>his saturn is conjunct my midheaven & moon
>my saturn is conjunct his venus
>sounds like a lousy combo; am I right?
>thanks
In my own experience, the aspect has to be within a degree to be felt,
and without exception I've experienced discomfort (in the better cases)
or antipathy (in the worse cases) when there is any very close contact
between my Saturn or theirs to a personal planet of the other's. Saturn
contacts didn't prevent relationships in every case; one friend's Moon
was in exact square to my Saturn (and his own Saturn), and another
friend's Saturn was conjunct my Sun. In the first case, I never felt
capable of providing the emotional connection that was needed, which
caused me much discomfort and subsequent feelings of guilt. In the
second case, I felt I had no choice but to relate to the person whose
Saturn conjoined my Sun, even though I found the relationship burdensome
and in some ways frightening. Neither of these relationships were
romantic/sexual. I've never had these types of Saturn aspects in
SO types of relationships, and I hope not to in the future. Just my
own feelings about it.
--
"CFA©"@dosa.alt.net
This is an interesting take on it. Maybe my experience is very
different because I have a Venus/Saturn square (and Cap Moon/Asc).
SeaGtGruff
> Not necessarily. Saturn contacts like this are "the ties that
> bind". Sometimes these relationships are slow to get started,
> or there may seem insurmountable obstacles. But if they
> make it, they tend to endure. My Saturn is on my wife's
> Venus, hers is on my Mars.
I agree with your comments about "the ties that bind" and "they tend to
endure," but I was going to say that perhaps your own experience with these
synastric aspects is affected by the way you both handle your own Saturns. And
then I saw this in another post:
> Maybe my experience is very different because I have a
> Venus/Saturn square (and Cap Moon/Asc).
I wonder if there would be a difference between her Saturn on your Venus, or
your Saturn on her Venus. I'm thinking that your natal Venus-Saturn square has
made you sensitive to the way that Saturn can dishearten Venus at times, so as
far as your Saturn being conjunct your wife's Venus, you can express your
Saturn in a more sympathetic way toward her. If someone else's Saturn were
conjunct your Venus, and they expressed their Saturn in a harsh and
unsympathetic way, the experience might not be nearly as pleasant, if you see
what I mean. And of course your Capricornian Moon probably has a big effect,
too.
Michael Rideout
radiocat
>second case, I felt I had no choice but to relate to the person whose
>Saturn conjoined my Sun>
I've had a similar experience with a very long term relationship. The
moment we first met years ago we both agreed that we could never imagine not
being together. But it was actually quite a frightening realisation! I
should say that we are still good friends, but we've put eachother through
some torture over the years, but always returned!
My Sun conjunct my friend's Saturn. Does Saturn hold the power here? It
feels like it does.
CFA咖dosa.alt.net
>I wonder if there would be a difference between her Saturn on your Venus, or
>your Saturn on her Venus. I'm thinking that your natal Venus-Saturn square has
>made you sensitive to the way that Saturn can dishearten Venus at times, so as
>far as your Saturn being conjunct your wife's Venus, you can express your
>Saturn in a more sympathetic way toward her. If someone else's Saturn were
>conjunct your Venus, and they expressed their Saturn in a harsh and
>unsympathetic way, the experience might not be nearly as pleasant, if you see
>what I mean. And of course your Capricornian Moon probably has a big effect,
>too.
These are valid points to consider... I've also noticed that people
sometimes flip roles in playing out these aspects.
For a Venus/Saturn person, the underlying "lie" would be lack- of
love, money, time, whatever has value. I've noticed I sometimes sought
it out (lack), as things were apparently going too good.
The positive side of it, though, is a wonderful loyalty and a high
trust level. I live with a person who has basically the same lifestyle
and professional goals. We work, travel, and spend most of our time
together. I realize this wouldn't work for some people, but I enjoy
how involved we are with each other.
I didn't say this earlier, but I'm curious what else binds
relationships, if there aren't significant Saturn contacts. Gail's
post left me with the impression hers don't carry that signature.
>Michael Rideout
Gail Klein
Yes, that's how it felt in that friendship I had, too. The frightening
part had more to do with the state he was in when we met, and he died
6 months later under mysterious circumstances. I think what I was
picking up was his aura of death, although that's a trite way to put
it. His life was at a terrifying point, for him, and proximity to it
was extremely frightening to me. It did feel "tortured", as you say,
but unfortunately the chance to see sunnier times never came.
--
SeaGtGruff
[snip]
> For a Venus/Saturn person, the underlying "lie" would be
> lack- of love, money, time, whatever has value. I've noticed
> I sometimes sought it out (lack), as things were apparently
> going too good.
That sounds very Saturnine... "This silver lining is too good to be true;
where's the dark cloud?" [wink] But then, Saturn isn't *pessimistic*; it's
just *realistic* (said the Capricornian astrologer with Saturn parallel his
Sun, Mercury, and Venus).
I have Capricorn on my Descendant, Saturn parallel my Descendant, Saturn
closely conjunct my West Point (or Equatorial Descendant), Saturn parallel
Venus, Venus in Capricorn, and the Sun at the Venus/Saturn midpoint. I'm
single, and have never actively sought a relationship, but I can't imagine
myself being seriously interested in anyone who isn't Saturnine (preferably in
all the best ways).
> The positive side of it, though, is a wonderful loyalty and a
> high trust level. I live with a person who has basically the
> same lifestyle and professional goals. We work, travel, and
> spend most of our time together. I realize this wouldn't
> work for some people, but I enjoy how involved we are
> with each other.
That would work for me! I don't know if you watch the TV comedy _Newsradio_
(I'm just an occasional viewer, myself), but there was an episode where the man
who's always in the suit (the owner? I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't even
know the names of the characters!) decided it was time to get married, so he
interviewed some women for the "job." He found the perfect woman-- they
compared portfolios, etc., as if they were arranging a business partnership--
but then they found out that their schedules didn't mesh right, and that was
the end of that!
> I didn't say this earlier, but I'm curious what else binds
> relationships, if there aren't significant Saturn contacts.
> Gail's post left me with the impression hers don't carry that
> signature.
I suppose it depends on whatever the relationship is based on. If it's sex,
then I would expect Mars to be the bind. If it's emotional needs, I would
expect the Moon to be the bind. If it's an intellectual attraction, I would
expect Mercury to be the bind; and so on. But I'm just guessing.
Michael Rideout
Gail Klein
In <36fa65ad...@news.alt.net> "CFA)"@dosa.alt.net writes:
>Gail Klein wrote:
>>In my own experience, the aspect has to be within a degree to be felt,
>>and without exception I've experienced discomfort (in the better cases)
>>or antipathy (in the worse cases) when there is any very close contact
>>between my Saturn or theirs to a personal planet of the other's. Saturn
>>contacts didn't prevent relationships in every case; one friend's Moon
>>was in exact square to my Saturn (and his own Saturn), and another
>>friend's Saturn was conjunct my Sun. In the first case, I never felt
>>capable of providing the emotional connection that was needed, which
>>caused me much discomfort and subsequent feelings of guilt. In the
>>second case, I felt I had no choice but to relate to the person whose
>>Saturn conjoined my Sun, even though I found the relationship burdensome
>>and in some ways frightening. Neither of these relationships were
>>romantic/sexual. I've never had these types of Saturn aspects in
>>SO types of relationships, and I hope not to in the future. Just my
>>own feelings about it.
>This is an interesting take on it. Maybe my experience is very
>different because I have a Venus/Saturn square (and Cap Moon/Asc).
I don't know. I have a Moon Saturn conjunction which is wide but
still very effective. I don't feel comfortable with someone else's
Moon on my Sun, or Sun on my Moon either and those are supposed to
be so favorable. Maybe the reason is that I'm not highly geared
to relationships and "togetherness" and the discomfort is simply
due to having to acknowledge the other. What does work for me,
though, is Venus to either Sun or Moon. The Moon Saturn conjunction
is wide enough that someone's Venus on my Moon is still a safe distance
from direct connection to my Saturn.
I've also seen a lot of synastry comparisons without the Sun Moon
stuff across charts, and I've seen a lot with very few contacts at
all between charts. Then, in the Composite, they might have a
Sun Moon conjunction. So I surmise that for some of us, the
direct chart to chart planet aspects are really more of a discomfort
than anything else.
And yes, I find hard Saturn contacts across charts extremely
uncomfortable. The one exception is my cat, whose Saturn is conjunct
my Sun. Obviously, my relationship with my cat is different from
any relationship with a human, so I don't really think it has
much bearing on the overall pattern I've noticed.
According to something I've been reading lately, there are 2 types
of marriages - marriages of "well being" which simply provide
companionship and so forth, and marriages which are more growth
experiences. This second type of marriage sounds more like the
sort of relationship in which strong Saturn aspects (or Pluto)
prevail. In my next SO relationship, I'm hoping it will be the
"well being" type. I've had the other type and the best thing
about it was getting out of it.
You'd asked in another post what does provide the depth/durability
for me if Saturn doesn't. I think Venus. I've never yet experienced
the fading of affection when Venus is involved with Sun or Moon. It
seems less projection-prone and more real of an affection, but this
is just my own experience I'm describing. Depth doesn't seem Venusian,
but for some of us who may be relationship shy to begin with, it
opens a door which otherwise stays shut and allows qualities such
as loyalty, devotion, and commitment to grow from there.
Please note also that Saturn worked fine as a binder in those friendships
I mentioned. It's just that I'd rather a more intense/intimate
relationship would be free of the types of inner inadequacy I felt
in those two friendships. A lot of love was in those friendships
which provided the backdrop for living with that Saturn insecurity,
but I've met dozens of people with whom there are hard Saturn aspects
and I want nothing to do with them. So love, or Venus, or some
manifestation of Venus in midpoints, etc., seems to be the deciding
factor for me.
CFA咖dosa.alt.net
>Ken (CFA咖dosa.alt.net, @.) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>> For a Venus/Saturn person, the underlying "lie" would be
>> lack- of love, money, time, whatever has value. I've noticed
>> I sometimes sought it out (lack), as things were apparently
>> going too good.
>
>That sounds very Saturnine... "This silver lining is too good to be true;
>where's the dark cloud?" [wink] But then, Saturn isn't *pessimistic*; it's
>just *realistic* (said the Capricornian astrologer with Saturn parallel his
>Sun, Mercury, and Venus).
I don't carry it to quite the same extreme, but the show "Frasier" and
especially his brother Niles are so impeccably Cap/Virgo. And
hilarious. Two funny old maids. (My wife forces me to hear- I don't
watch, I swear. The TV's next to the computer. Really.)
>I have Capricorn on my Descendant, Saturn parallel my Descendant, Saturn
>closely conjunct my West Point (or Equatorial Descendant), Saturn parallel
>Venus, Venus in Capricorn, and the Sun at the Venus/Saturn midpoint. I'm
>single, and have never actively sought a relationship, but I can't imagine
>myself being seriously interested in anyone who isn't Saturnine (preferably in
>all the best ways).
Well, it's a special kind of personality. I've noticed the
Scorpio/Capricorn types go around cleaning up everyone else's messes
(I guess mainly the fire and air signs. They're so damn scattered.:))
>> The positive side of it, though, is a wonderful loyalty and a
>> high trust level. I live with a person who has basically the
>> same lifestyle and professional goals. We work, travel, and
>> spend most of our time together. I realize this wouldn't
>> work for some people, but I enjoy how involved we are
>> with each other.
>
>That would work for me! I don't know if you watch the TV comedy _Newsradio_
>(I'm just an occasional viewer, myself), but there was an episode where the man
>who's always in the suit (the owner? I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't even
>know the names of the characters!) decided it was time to get married, so he
>interviewed some women for the "job." He found the perfect woman-- they
>compared portfolios, etc., as if they were arranging a business partnership--
>but then they found out that their schedules didn't mesh right, and that was
>the end of that!
Hey! That stuff's important!:) My wife and I don't dare try to cook at
the same time. We'd almost destroy our relationship easier than we'd
agree to how the other handles the kitchen!
>> I didn't say this earlier, but I'm curious what else binds
>> relationships, if there aren't significant Saturn contacts.
>> Gail's post left me with the impression hers don't carry that
>> signature.
>
>I suppose it depends on whatever the relationship is based on. If it's sex,
>then I would expect Mars to be the bind. If it's emotional needs, I would
>expect the Moon to be the bind. If it's an intellectual attraction, I would
>expect Mercury to be the bind; and so on. But I'm just guessing.
It would seem the importance of Saturn has to do with commitment. In a
love relationship, knowing the other person is present- being able to
trust they won't invade or split- is an important part of opening up.
That "trust" word...
Co=workers, acquaintances, etc, might have other planets as the focus.
I still think Saturn plays a pivotal part in steadying a love
relationship through scary moments.
Mars might be a point of ignition for sexuality, but it doesn't seem
to define length or stability. Recreational sex doesn't require the
same kind of emotional consideration as a "marriage"; the former would
seem more based on Mars, the latter, Mars and something more.
>Michael Rideout
CFA咖dosa.alt.net
>Gail wrote <In the
>>second case, I felt I had no choice but to relate to the person whose
>>Saturn conjoined my Sun>
>
>I've had a similar experience with a very long term relationship. The
>moment we first met years ago we both agreed that we could never imagine not
>being together. But it was actually quite a frightening realisation! I
>should say that we are still good friends, but we've put eachother through
>some torture over the years, but always returned!
>
>My Sun conjunct my friend's Saturn. Does Saturn hold the power here? It
>feels like it does.
Subjectively, yes Saturn does hold the power. It's interesting to look
for contacts between the four outer planets to the inner planets. The
person whose outer planets touch the other's inner planets (especially
conjunction, square, or opposition) will often seem to hold sway.
CFA咖dosa.alt.net
>
>In <36fa65ad...@news.alt.net> "CFA)"@dosa.alt.net writes:
>
>>Gail Klein wrote:
>
>>>In my own experience, the aspect has to be within a degree to be felt,
>>>and without exception I've experienced discomfort (in the better cases)
>>>or antipathy (in the worse cases) when there is any very close contact
>>>between my Saturn or theirs to a personal planet of the other's. Saturn
>>>contacts didn't prevent relationships in every case; one friend's Moon
>>>was in exact square to my Saturn (and his own Saturn), and another
>>>friend's Saturn was conjunct my Sun. In the first case, I never felt
>>>capable of providing the emotional connection that was needed, which
>>>caused me much discomfort and subsequent feelings of guilt. In the
>>>second case, I felt I had no choice but to relate to the person whose
>>>Saturn conjoined my Sun, even though I found the relationship burdensome
>>>and in some ways frightening. Neither of these relationships were
>>>romantic/sexual. I've never had these types of Saturn aspects in
>>>SO types of relationships, and I hope not to in the future. Just my
>>>own feelings about it.
>
>>This is an interesting take on it. Maybe my experience is very
>>different because I have a Venus/Saturn square (and Cap Moon/Asc).
>
>I don't know. I have a Moon Saturn conjunction which is wide but
>still very effective. I don't feel comfortable with someone else's
>Moon on my Sun, or Sun on my Moon either and those are supposed to
>be so favorable. Maybe the reason is that I'm not highly geared
>to relationships and "togetherness" and the discomfort is simply
>due to having to acknowledge the other. What does work for me,
>though, is Venus to either Sun or Moon. The Moon Saturn conjunction
>is wide enough that someone's Venus on my Moon is still a safe distance
>from direct connection to my Saturn.
I think there could be something in my Moon/Jupiter/Asc conjunction. I
genuinely like women and their companionship (Venus in Sag, too). I
have been tempted to "oversample the buffet" in the past, but I think
I've wrung most of that out of my system.
My first wife's Moon was opposite my Sun; worked fabulous, very
natural experience of male/female. We just had some other issues that
never quite got resolved (like her Moon/Mars/Jupiter/Saturn/Pluto
fixed T-square. Phew!). And I think it was my Venus/Saturn going
haywire. Plus I "grew up", got into astrology, had Pluto conjunct or
square half my chart, etc.
>I've also seen a lot of synastry comparisons without the Sun Moon
>stuff across charts, and I've seen a lot with very few contacts at
>all between charts. Then, in the Composite, they might have a
>Sun Moon conjunction. So I surmise that for some of us, the
>direct chart to chart planet aspects are really more of a discomfort
>than anything else.
Seems to go either way in my work. Sometimes the contacts show in the
composite; sometimes in the synastry. I consider the composite sort of
a road map and the synastry is some of the finer points
(oversimplification, but it's late).
>And yes, I find hard Saturn contacts across charts extremely
>uncomfortable. The one exception is my cat, whose Saturn is conjunct
>my Sun. Obviously, my relationship with my cat is different from
>any relationship with a human, so I don't really think it has
>much bearing on the overall pattern I've noticed.
>
>According to something I've been reading lately, there are 2 types
>of marriages - marriages of "well being" which simply provide
>companionship and so forth, and marriages which are more growth
>experiences. This second type of marriage sounds more like the
>sort of relationship in which strong Saturn aspects (or Pluto)
>prevail. In my next SO relationship, I'm hoping it will be the
>"well being" type. I've had the other type and the best thing
>about it was getting out of it.
I think the first can lead to the second... This time, I experience
that well-being at home; we're also thrill seekers, so we threw in a
few outer planet aspects :)
>You'd asked in another post what does provide the depth/durability
>for me if Saturn doesn't. I think Venus. I've never yet experienced
>the fading of affection when Venus is involved with Sun or Moon. It
>seems less projection-prone and more real of an affection, but this
>is just my own experience I'm describing. Depth doesn't seem Venusian,
>but for some of us who may be relationship shy to begin with, it
>opens a door which otherwise stays shut and allows qualities such
>as loyalty, devotion, and commitment to grow from there.
Makes sense to me... I guess I've never been shy about getting
involved, though it used to feel that way. I do better overall in a
long-term relationship, and I guess I've gotten over enough of the
early traumas...
>Please note also that Saturn worked fine as a binder in those friendships
>I mentioned. It's just that I'd rather a more intense/intimate
>relationship would be free of the types of inner inadequacy I felt
>in those two friendships. A lot of love was in those friendships
>which provided the backdrop for living with that Saturn insecurity,
>but I've met dozens of people with whom there are hard Saturn aspects
>and I want nothing to do with them. So love, or Venus, or some
>manifestation of Venus in midpoints, etc., seems to be the deciding
>factor for me.
Ken
and...@mindspring.com
Gail Klein <g...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSU.4.05.990325...@panix2.panix.com...
This is fascinating! Last August-(the exact date escapes me now)- there was
a Lunar eclipse in Pisces-(conjunct my natal Venus in the 9th house)- and
made the aquaintance of a woman, who's Venus is conjunct my Saturn. This
would be in the last third of my 5th house, and the last third of her 12th
house. In addition, her Uranus is conjunct my Moon in Leo in the 2nd house,
and I'm guessing her 9th house. Nothing ever happened between us. But there
was this strange compelling feeling between us through the duration of that
evening. It was like being reunited with a fellow alien}:>)).
I have only seen this person once. But I'll always wonder "what if?"......Oh
yes, lest I for get: her Moon was conjunct my Sun!!!!----Yowey--Zowey!!!!:>)
Wayne
> I've also seen a lot of synastry comparisons without the Sun Moon
> stuff across charts, and I've seen a lot with very few contacts at
> all between charts. Then, in the Composite, they might have a
> Sun Moon conjunction. So I surmise that for some of us, the
> direct chart to chart planet aspects are really more of a discomfort
> than anything else.
>
> And yes, I find hard Saturn contacts across charts extremely
> uncomfortable. The one exception is my cat, whose Saturn is conjunct
> my Sun. Obviously, my relationship with my cat is different from
> any relationship with a human, so I don't really think it has
> much bearing on the overall pattern I've noticed.
>
> According to something I've been reading lately, there are 2 types
> of marriages - marriages of "well being" which simply provide
> companionship and so forth, and marriages which are more growth
> experiences. This second type of marriage sounds more like the
> sort of relationship in which strong Saturn aspects (or Pluto)
> prevail. In my next SO relationship, I'm hoping it will be the
> "well being" type. I've had the other type and the best thing
> about it was getting out of it.
>
> You'd asked in another post what does provide the depth/durability
> for me if Saturn doesn't. I think Venus. I've never yet experienced
> the fading of affection when Venus is involved with Sun or Moon. It
> seems less projection-prone and more real of an affection, but this
> is just my own experience I'm describing. Depth doesn't seem Venusian,
> but for some of us who may be relationship shy to begin with, it
> opens a door which otherwise stays shut and allows qualities such
> as loyalty, devotion, and commitment to grow from there.
>
Pamela Gross
> But I'll always wonder "what if?"......Oh
>yes, lest I for get: her Moon was conjunct my Sun!!!!----Yowey--Zowey!!!!:>)
>Wayne
The ones I "wonder about" had their moons conjunct my Sun...
The synastry I'm working on now which I posted below shows this aspect
which IS nice...but the person asking me to do it is so insecure and
worried that I don't want to say all systems GO until I have other
opinions, since of course there are always those not-so-fun things
too...
But for myself, when I think of the moon/my sun men I have met and how
much I liked them...wonder if I missed the boat somewhere ;)
Pam
Pamela Gross
be...@ix.netcom.com
Rheumatic Disease Web Site:
http://www.silcom.com/~sblc