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Markham, Oswald, Tippit, The Bullets, And "1:07 PM"
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David Von Pein
Aug 2, 2007, 9:40:21 PM8/2/07
to
FROM AN AMAZON.COM FORUM DISCUSSION..........
===============================================
===============================================
DVP SAYS:
There's no proof that Oswald left his roominghouse at 1026 Beckley at
EXACTLY 1:03 or 1:04. That's Earlene Roberts' ESTIMATE. That's all that
is, an estimate. Just like Markham's timeline, and Bowley's. And those
estimates are within mere MINUTES of supporting a perfectly- aligned
"Oswald Did It" scenario.
Why people insist on micro-managing Oswald's movements to the exact
second/minute is a mystery...when, in fact, such micro-management of
ESTIMATED times is utterly futile and impossible.
Plus: It's always been my theory (yes, it's a guess, but a good one, IMO)
that Oswald was not in that shoebox-sized room of his on Beckley for any
"3 to 4 minutes" (as ESTIMATED by Mrs. Roberts, who was the only witness
to Oswald's coming in and going out again around 1:00 PM on 11/22/63).
Why on this Earth would Oswald, who was undoubtedly in a "hurry" (per
Roberts herself), spend 3 to 4 minutes in that closet of a room just to
grab his pistol and some bullets?*
* = And, btw, he grabbed 15 or 16 total bullets...sure sounds like he
expected some "action" for some reason, huh?
No way, IMO, that LHO was in that room for more than 30 to 60 seconds,
TOPS. If so, that puts him out on the street again earlier than Roberts
estimated, and hence gives him a few more minutes to get to Tenth Street
to kill Tippit...which, as mentioned, he so obviously did.**
** = And, yes, I'm basing this conclusion on the TOTALITY of all the
evidence, not just CT-happy estimated timelines.
The "short & stocky & bushy" junk is meaningless....because Markham
positively IDed OSWALD, no one else. And so did Scoggins, Davis, Davis,
Callaway, and Tatum (among others as well).
BTW, any "bushy" type comment that MAY have been made by Markham to Poe or
anyone else (and she said she didn't say it to anybody, but let's just say
she did)....could easily refer to Oswald's windblown, messed-up hair, like
we see here:
http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/images/oswald_custody.jpeg
In fact, Markham specifically told the WC that Oswald's hair WAS, indeed,
messed up, uncombed, etc.
Addendum -- I'm positively correct about the "1:07" business. Just read
ALL of Helen Markham's WC testimony. (And I want to say "Thank you, Bud"
for previously pointing out this key observation re. Markham's testimony.)
When Joe Ball asks Markham, "You think it was a little after 1?" ... and
Markham answers, "I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes
after 1" ... she is positively returning to her previous "I believe it was
a little after 1" statement made just a minute earlier, where she was
talking about LEAVING HER HOME, NOT about the precise time of Tippit's
murder.
Also: The bullet shells in evidence positively came from Oswald's .38 S&W
revolver. The four bullets in Tippit were too mangled to be positively
IDed as having come from any particular gun (per the FBI; but Joe Nichol,
the independent firearms expert from Illinois, DID say 1 bullet could be
linked to LHO's gun).
But, anyway, maybe if you continue to spout the "Oswald Could Be Innocent"
nonsense for 44 more years, a book deal of your own might surface.
After all, the gullibility of the masses (towards a make-believe "plot")
knows no bounds when it comes to the events of November 22, 1963.
Much more LN Common Sense below:
http://blog.myspace.com/davidvp1961
http://hometheaterforum.com/htf/showpost.php?p=3200858
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/85fe573544d89f90
tomnln
Aug 3, 2007, 12:08:18 AM8/3/07
to
Sol David agrees that the OFFICIAL Oswald/Tippit timeline won't work for
Oswald to have killed Tippit.
Oswald to have killed Tippit.
Davis also AVOIDS time for Oswald to have changed clothes.
Thanks for Rejecting the official report David.>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1186097899.0...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
eca...@tx.rr.com
Aug 3, 2007, 1:13:19 PM8/3/07
to
Tom it's rare that we see so much "official evidence"
rejected on any one issue as we do with you and the
Tippit murder. FYI the "official" WCR concluded that
Oswald killed Tippit at 1:15 pm. Additionally there
were no less than 10 eyewitnesses who saw Oswald kill
Tippit or saw him leaving the murder scene. I might
add that the HSCA also concluded Oswald murdered JDT.
rejected on any one issue as we do with you and the
Tippit murder. FYI the "official" WCR concluded that
Oswald killed Tippit at 1:15 pm. Additionally there
were no less than 10 eyewitnesses who saw Oswald kill
Tippit or saw him leaving the murder scene. I might
add that the HSCA also concluded Oswald murdered JDT.
` **************************************
In fact there is not a single researcher in the
top 20 in the world who agrees with you that the
Walker,Kennedy and Tippit shooters all got away.
` **************************************
` Ed Cage
` MR ;^D
` 0841Aug307
On Aug 2, 11:08 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> Sol David agrees that the OFFICIAL Oswald/Tippit timeline won't work for
> Oswald to have killed Tippit.
>
> Davis also AVOIDS time for Oswald to have changed clothes.
>
> Thanks for Rejecting the official report David.>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:1186097899.0...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > FROM AN AMAZON.COM FORUM DISCUSSION..........
>
> > ===============================================
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/discussionboard/discussion.html/ref=cm_cd_md...
> >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/85fe573544d89f90- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
tomnln
Aug 3, 2007, 8:46:27 PM8/3/07
to
I was aware of the Warren Commission "Conclusions" long before you were.
Unfortunatly for you, the evidence/testimony do NOT support those
"Conclusions".
THAT is why you address the conclusions ONLY.
NEVER addressing the evidence/testimony.
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
<eca...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1186148630.7...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
David Von Pein
Aug 3, 2007, 10:18:34 PM8/3/07
to
>>> "David also AVOIDS time for Oswald to have changed clothes." <<<
There's no proof that Oswald changed any clothes. I believe he did
tell one police officer (probably Fritz) that he changed his
"trousers", which he may have done....but I'm doubting it.
IMO, Oswald lied when he told the police he changed his clothing
(trousers or otherwise), in order to make it appear he was in no big
hurry to exit his lodgings on November 22nd around the time of the
assassination.
But even if he did change his pants, he still probably wasn't in that
room for "3 to 4 minutes". How long does it take a person IN A HURRY
to change his pants and grab a gun (within a closet-sized cubicle)?
Time it. See how long it takes. (But since Tom R. is 191 years old, we
can't really rely on his timeline for this test; it'll probably take
him a century or two.)
tomnln
Aug 3, 2007, 11:37:54 PM8/3/07
to
Then WHY wasn't Oswald wearing the Light colored shirt & Lighter Trousers
that your STAR Witness Howard Brennan described the shooter in the window
wearing?
ps;
Your remark aboput my age indicates that you would Really enjoy trading
insults with me David.
Please Confirm?
Maybe youl'd care to address these?>>>
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
I see McAdams reached a NEW LOW by posting insults against CT's.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1186116144.5...@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Ott Rovgeisha
Jul 20, 2013, 12:16:22 PM7/20/13
to
All this pickering about a minute or two is rather useless. I proves
neither side! The idea that Oswald spent some 50 seconds in his room could
be labeled also as a desperate attempt to make the timeline work in order
to fit one's theory. I see no legitimate reason to discredit mrs Robert's
estimate and in favor of a lesser time spent in the room.
The fact remains this: the timeline is EITHER way WAY to tight to believe
that Tippit stumbled upon Oswald (the very same Oswald who supposedly
killed JFK) coincidentally AND had any reason to stop him or to follow him
without making any radio calls and being rather far away from the heart of
his patrol area for no apparent reason.
Had it been ANY other crime, no one would for a second say that this was
all a coincidence.
On the other hand we have witness testimonies of people who saw Tippit in
his final hour, witness testimonies that was not even bothered to gather
at the right time. And that witness testimony does implicate that Tippit
was looking for Oswald and not only that: he knew where to find him,
probably because where ever Oswald was going, he was not taking this route
the first time.
neither side! The idea that Oswald spent some 50 seconds in his room could
be labeled also as a desperate attempt to make the timeline work in order
to fit one's theory. I see no legitimate reason to discredit mrs Robert's
estimate and in favor of a lesser time spent in the room.
The fact remains this: the timeline is EITHER way WAY to tight to believe
that Tippit stumbled upon Oswald (the very same Oswald who supposedly
killed JFK) coincidentally AND had any reason to stop him or to follow him
without making any radio calls and being rather far away from the heart of
his patrol area for no apparent reason.
Had it been ANY other crime, no one would for a second say that this was
all a coincidence.
On the other hand we have witness testimonies of people who saw Tippit in
his final hour, witness testimonies that was not even bothered to gather
at the right time. And that witness testimony does implicate that Tippit
was looking for Oswald and not only that: he knew where to find him,
probably because where ever Oswald was going, he was not taking this route
the first time.
dcwillis
Jul 20, 2013, 5:10:42 PM7/20/13
to
Oswald ran down Jefferson. Did she ID the same Oswald or the other one?
And so did Scoggins,
Yes, after some 24 hours. He was in a police car as early as 1:22 Friday,
but did not go to a lineup until Saturday afternoon! Perhaps he was
hesitant about something....
Davis, Davis,
> Callaway, and Tatum (among others as well).
>
> BTW, any "bushy" type comment that MAY have been made by Markham to Poe or
> anyone else (and she said she didn't say it to anybody, but let's just say
> she did)....could easily refer to Oswald's windblown, messed-up hair, like
> we see here:
>
> http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/images/oswald_custody.jpeg
>
> In fact, Markham specifically told the WC that Oswald's hair WAS, indeed,
> messed up, uncombed, etc.
phrase "bushy-haired" in a Morning News article, then tried to explain it
away by saying that it was his *interpretation* of what she had said (With
Malice p219). Funny, though, the DPD's Poe also wrote that she had said
"bushy hair" (With Malice p487) Poe & Aynesworth must have conferred
about the phrase & come to a agreement!
dcw
Bud
Jul 20, 2013, 10:55:21 PM7/20/13
to
> Davis, Davis,
>
> > Callaway, and Tatum (among others as well).
>
> >
>
> > BTW, any "bushy" type comment that MAY have been made by Markham to Poe or
>
> > anyone else (and she said she didn't say it to anybody, but let's just say
>
> > she did)....could easily refer to Oswald's windblown, messed-up hair, like
>
> > we see here:
>
> >
>
> > http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/images/oswald_custody.jpeg
>
> >
>
> > In fact, Markham specifically told the WC that Oswald's hair WAS, indeed,
>
> > messed up, uncombed, etc.
>
>
>
> Back-pedaling by all concerned.... Reporter Hugh Aynesworth used the
>
> phrase "bushy-haired" in a Morning News article, then tried to explain it
>
> away by saying that it was his *interpretation* of what she had said (With
>
> Malice p219). Funny, though, the DPD's Poe also wrote that she had said
>
> "bushy hair" (With Malice p487) Poe & Aynesworth must have conferred
>
> about the phrase & come to a agreement!
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01349/leeharvey_1349859c.jpg
>
>
> dcw
Bud
Jul 20, 2013, 10:55:50 PM7/20/13
to
On Saturday, July 20, 2013 12:16:22 PM UTC-4, Ott Rovgeisha wrote:
> All this pickering about a minute or two is rather useless. I proves
>
> neither side! The idea that Oswald spent some 50 seconds in his room could
>
> be labeled also as a desperate attempt to make the timeline work in order
>
> to fit one's theory. I see no legitimate reason to discredit mrs Robert's
>
> estimate and in favor of a lesser time spent in the room.
Do you see any reason to treat her guess at how long he was in the room
> All this pickering about a minute or two is rather useless. I proves
>
> neither side! The idea that Oswald spent some 50 seconds in his room could
>
> be labeled also as a desperate attempt to make the timeline work in order
>
> to fit one's theory. I see no legitimate reason to discredit mrs Robert's
>
> estimate and in favor of a lesser time spent in the room.
as being accurate?
> The fact remains this: the timeline is EITHER way WAY to tight to believe
>
> that Tippit stumbled upon Oswald (the very same Oswald who supposedly
>
> killed JFK) coincidentally AND had any reason to stop him or to follow him
>
> without making any radio calls and being rather far away from the heart of
>
> his patrol area for no apparent reason.
>
>
>
> Had it been ANY other crime, no one would for a second say that this was
>
> all a coincidence.
>
>
>
> On the other hand we have witness testimonies of people who saw Tippit in
>
> his final hour, witness testimonies that was not even bothered to gather
>
> at the right time. And that witness testimony does implicate that Tippit
>
> was looking for Oswald and not only that: he knew where to find him,
>
> probably because where ever Oswald was going, he was not taking this route
>
> the first time.
Anthony Marsh
Jul 20, 2013, 11:44:24 PM7/20/13
to
dcwillis
Jul 21, 2013, 1:51:20 PM7/21/13
to
>
> http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01349/leeharvey_1349859c.jpg
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > dcw
mainframetech
Jul 21, 2013, 4:55:57 PM7/21/13
to
minutes after he had already died?
Bud
Jul 21, 2013, 8:35:24 PM7/21/13
to
>
>
> >
>
> > http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01349/leeharvey_1349859c.jpg
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > dcw
Bud
Jul 21, 2013, 9:15:05 PM7/21/13
to
dcwillis
Jul 21, 2013, 11:57:32 PM7/21/13
to
on the heavy side & short....
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01349/leeharvey_1349859c.jpg
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> >
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> > > > dcw
mainframetech
Jul 22, 2013, 3:13:25 PM7/22/13
to
>
> > > > > ** = And, yes, I'm basing this conclusion on the TOTALITY of all the
>
>
> > > > > evidence, not just CT-happy estimated timelines.
>
>
> > > > > The "short & stocky & bushy" junk is meaningless....because Markham
>
>
> > > > > positively IDed OSWALD, no one else.
>
She positively spoke with Tippit for 20 minutes after he was dead too. 'Short, stocky and bushy' might fit the guy that Acquilla Clemmons saw reloading his gun after the shots rang out, and the guy driving the Rambler that picked up Oswald outside the TSBD and drove him off.
> > > > > ** = And, yes, I'm basing this conclusion on the TOTALITY of all the
>
>
> > > > > evidence, not just CT-happy estimated timelines.
>
>
> > > > > The "short & stocky & bushy" junk is meaningless....because Markham
>
>
> > > > > positively IDed OSWALD, no one else.
>
> >
>
>
> > > > Yes, and said that Oswald ran down the alley off Patton. Others said
>
>
> > > > Oswald ran down Jefferson. Did she ID the same Oswald or the other one?
>
>
> > > > And so did Scoggins,
>
>
> > > > Yes, after some 24 hours. He was in a police car as early as 1:22 Friday,
>
>
> > > > but did not go to a lineup until Saturday afternoon! Perhaps he was
>
>
> > > > hesitant about something....
>
>
> > > Let us know when you can firm that up.
>
>
> > > > Davis, Davis,
>
>
> > > > > Callaway, and Tatum (among others as well).
>
>
> > > > > BTW, any "bushy" type comment that MAY have been made by Markham to Poe or
>
>
> > > > > anyone else (and she said she didn't say it to anybody, but let's just say
>
>
> > > > > she did)....could easily refer to Oswald's windblown, messed-up hair, like
>
>
> > > > > we see here:
>
>
> > > > > http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/images/oswald_custody.jpeg
>
>
> > > > > In fact, Markham specifically told the WC that Oswald's hair WAS, indeed,
>
>
> > > > > messed up, uncombed, etc.
>
Was Oswald also 'short and stocky' too?
> > > > > anyone else (and she said she didn't say it to anybody, but let's just say
>
>
> > > > > she did)....could easily refer to Oswald's windblown, messed-up hair, like
>
>
> > > > > we see here:
>
>
> > > > > http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/images/oswald_custody.jpeg
>
>
> > > > > In fact, Markham specifically told the WC that Oswald's hair WAS, indeed,
>
>
> > > > > messed up, uncombed, etc.
>
Bud
Jul 22, 2013, 7:14:55 PM7/22/13
to
Oswald was innocent try to portray these hair remarks are exclusionary
when they are very inclusive.
> Somehow, he'll have it be Oswald who was yes
>
> on the heavy side & short....
look too heavy. Even estimated his weight to be about 150 pounds.
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > > >
>
> >
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> > >
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>
> > > > http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01349/leeharvey_1349859c.jpg
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> > > > > dcw
Bud
Jul 22, 2013, 7:17:15 PM7/22/13
to
> > > > > > ** = And, yes, I'm basing this conclusion on the TOTALITY of all the
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > evidence, not just CT-happy estimated timelines.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > The "short & stocky & bushy" junk is meaningless....because Markham
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > positively IDed OSWALD, no one else.
>
> >
>
> She positively spoke with Tippit for 20 minutes after he was dead too.
likely.
> 'Short, stocky and bushy' might fit the guy
estimated his weight to be 150, which is pretty close to Oswald`s weight.
Plus she knew him to be the man she saw when she saw him in the lineup.
> that Acquilla Clemmons saw reloading his gun after the shots rang out, and the guy driving the Rambler that picked up Oswald outside the TSBD and drove him off.
>
>
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Yes, and said that Oswald ran down the alley off Patton. Others said
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Oswald ran down Jefferson. Did she ID the same Oswald or the other one?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > And so did Scoggins,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Yes, after some 24 hours. He was in a police car as early as 1:22 Friday,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > but did not go to a lineup until Saturday afternoon! Perhaps he was
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > hesitant about something....
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > Let us know when you can firm that up.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Davis, Davis,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > Callaway, and Tatum (among others as well).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > BTW, any "bushy" type comment that MAY have been made by Markham to Poe or
>
> >
>
> That's nice, but it leaves out 'short and stocky'.
taller than him. And Markham put his weight at about 150 pounds. All the
people who were that that made identifications said it was Oswald because
it was Oswald.
>
> > > > > > anyone else (and she said she didn't say it to anybody, but let's just say
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > she did)....could easily refer to Oswald's windblown, messed-up hair, like
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > we see here:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/images/oswald_custody.jpeg
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > In fact, Markham specifically told the WC that Oswald's hair WAS, indeed,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > messed up, uncombed, etc.
>
> >
>
> Was Oswald also 'short and stocky' too?
Anthony Marsh
Jul 22, 2013, 10:28:28 PM7/22/13
to
mainframetech
Jul 23, 2013, 12:19:17 PM7/23/13
to
"Mrs. MARKHAM. No; not until everything was over--I never seen anybody until I was at Mr. Tippit's side. I tried to save his life, which was I didn't know at that time I couldn't do something for him.
Mr. DULLES. Mr. Tippit, Officer Tippit, didn't say anything to you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He tried to.
Mr. DULLES. He tried to?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. But he didn't succeed?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, I couldn't understand. I was screaming and hollering and I was trying to help him all I could, and I would have. I was with him until they put him in the ambulance."
Sounds like she was talking to him to me, and thought he was still alive
and speaking. If I remember correctly, the last bullet fired was into the
head.
>
>
> > 'Short, stocky and bushy' might fit the guy
>
>
>
> Actually the description Markham gave fit Oswald pretty well. She
>
> estimated his weight to be 150, which is pretty close to Oswald`s weight.
>
> Plus she knew him to be the man she saw when she saw him in the lineup.
>
>
>
> > that Acquilla Clemmons saw reloading his gun after the shots rang out, and the guy driving the Rambler that picked up Oswald outside the TSBD and drove him off.
>
about the 'short, stocky and bushy' because she had said that to Mark Lane
and he passed it on to them.
Bud
Jul 23, 2013, 5:53:12 PM7/23/13
to
> and thought he was still alive
> and speaking.
He may have been trying to mouth words, or could have been death throes.
I`ve seen videos of people fatally shot with their mouths going like they
are trying to talk. Here is one...
WARNING: EXTREMELY BRUTAL VIDEO
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=edb_1373657415
> If I remember correctly, the last bullet fired was into the
> head.
death at all.
And where did what you produce support your claim that this went on for
20 minutes?
mainframetech
Jul 23, 2013, 8:23:33 PM7/23/13
to
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> > > > > > > > > No way, IMO, that LHO was in that room for more than 30 to 60 seconds,
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> > > > > > > > > TOPS. If so, that puts him out on the street again earlier than Roberts
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> > > > > > > > > estimated, and hence gives him a few more minutes to get to Tenth Street
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> > > > > > > > > to kill Tippit...which, as mentioned, he so obviously did.**
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> > > > Oh, wait a minute. If Oswald wanted to kill Tippit, then why not shoot him while Oswald was hanging on the window of the patrol car? Tippit would have some trouble pulling his own gun, and couldn't easily move away from bullets coming his way.
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> > > <snicker> Would Tippit be deader if he shot him this way rather than the way he did? Why not suggest he use a higher caliber gun also?
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> > > > > > > > > ** = And, yes, I'm basing this conclusion on the TOTALITY of all the
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> > > > > > > > > evidence, not just CT-happy estimated timelines.
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> > > > > > > > > The "short & stocky & bushy" junk is meaningless....because Markham
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> > > > > > > > > positively IDed OSWALD, no one else.
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> > > > She positively spoke with Tippit for 20 minutes after he was dead too.
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> > > I have no idea here you are getting this nonsense from. Spartacus most
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> > > likely.
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> > Welp, listen to her testimony:
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> > "Mrs. MARKHAM. No; not until everything was over--I never seen anybody until I was at Mr. Tippit's side. I tried to save his life, which was I didn't know at that time I couldn't do something for him.
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> >
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> > Mr. DULLES. Mr. Tippit, Officer Tippit, didn't say anything to you?
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> > Mrs. MARKHAM. He tried to.
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> > Mr. DULLES. He tried to?
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> > Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
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> > Mr. DULLES. But he didn't succeed?
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> > Mrs. MARKHAM. No, I couldn't understand. I was screaming and hollering and I was trying to help him all I could, and I would have. I was with him until they put him in the ambulance."
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> > Sounds like she was talking to him to me,
>
You would think that. She was 'screaming and hollering' and trying to
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> > > > > > > > > No way, IMO, that LHO was in that room for more than 30 to 60 seconds,
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> > > > > > > > > TOPS. If so, that puts him out on the street again earlier than Roberts
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> > > > > > > > > estimated, and hence gives him a few more minutes to get to Tenth Street
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> > > > > > > > > to kill Tippit...which, as mentioned, he so obviously did.**
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> > > > Oh, wait a minute. If Oswald wanted to kill Tippit, then why not shoot him while Oswald was hanging on the window of the patrol car? Tippit would have some trouble pulling his own gun, and couldn't easily move away from bullets coming his way.
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> > > <snicker> Would Tippit be deader if he shot him this way rather than the way he did? Why not suggest he use a higher caliber gun also?
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> > > > > > > > > ** = And, yes, I'm basing this conclusion on the TOTALITY of all the
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> > > > > > > > > evidence, not just CT-happy estimated timelines.
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> > > > > > > > > The "short & stocky & bushy" junk is meaningless....because Markham
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> > > > > > > > > positively IDed OSWALD, no one else.
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> > > > She positively spoke with Tippit for 20 minutes after he was dead too.
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> > > I have no idea here you are getting this nonsense from. Spartacus most
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> > Welp, listen to her testimony:
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> > "Mrs. MARKHAM. No; not until everything was over--I never seen anybody until I was at Mr. Tippit's side. I tried to save his life, which was I didn't know at that time I couldn't do something for him.
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> > Mr. DULLES. Mr. Tippit, Officer Tippit, didn't say anything to you?
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> > Mrs. MARKHAM. He tried to.
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> > Mr. DULLES. He tried to?
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> > Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
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> > Mr. DULLES. But he didn't succeed?
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> > Mrs. MARKHAM. No, I couldn't understand. I was screaming and hollering and I was trying to help him all I could, and I would have. I was with him until they put him in the ambulance."
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> > Sounds like she was talking to him to me,
>
help him, while he was trying to talk to her? It doesn't sound like she
was listening.
Bud
Jul 23, 2013, 8:30:23 PM7/23/13
to
WARNING: DON`T WATCH THIS, IT IS GRAPHIC AND BRUTAL...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=175_1371100533
Bud
Jul 24, 2013, 10:46:14 AM7/24/13
to
a witness and only demonstrate your own desperation to disregard her so
you can play the silly game of pretending Oswald was a patsy.
As for your question about the bullets, Oswald reloaded, dropping empty
shells and replacing them with live rounds. You really should leave these
things to those better suited for looking into them.
curtj...@hotmail.com
Jul 24, 2013, 9:11:05 PM7/24/13
to
Butch Burroughs, Oswald came in the Theater @ 1:07. Probably got their by
police car or bus, and seen in theater by Jack Davis for a long time
before police came in. Oswald entered cab @12:48. Dropped off 12:54.
The walk which I walked where he was dropped off personally to
roominghouse. 6:30. Earlene Roberts. "After the phone call I turned on
the television about the President being killed" "Must've been after 1:00.
It took me 13:30 seconds to good pace walk from Roominghouse to Tenth and
Patton. 3 People confirm time of death at 1:06, Markham, Higgins, and
Craig. Witnesses see Oswald walking from opposite direction from
Marsailes and further away from Tippit murder scene after 1:00 which is at
least a 3 minute walk to the murder scene. Yes, I walked that area too.
CJ
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Subject: Re: Markham, Oswald, Tippit, The Bullets, And "1:07 PM"
From: mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com>
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On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:30:23 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:53:12 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:19:17 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
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> >
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> > > On Monday, July 22, 2013 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
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> > > > On Monday, July 22, 2013 3:13:25 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
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> > > > > On Sunday, July 21, 2013 8:35:24 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
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> > > > > > On Sunday, July 21, 2013 1:51:20 PM UTC-4, dcwillis wrote:
>
>
> > > > > > > On Saturday, July 20, 2013 7:55:21 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
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> > > > > > > > On Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:10:42 PM UTC-4, dcwillis wrote:
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> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 2, 2007 6:40:21 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
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police car or bus, and seen in theater by Jack Davis for a long time
before police came in. Oswald entered cab @12:48. Dropped off 12:54.
The walk which I walked where he was dropped off personally to
roominghouse. 6:30. Earlene Roberts. "After the phone call I turned on
the television about the President being killed" "Must've been after 1:00.
It took me 13:30 seconds to good pace walk from Roominghouse to Tenth and
Patton. 3 People confirm time of death at 1:06, Markham, Higgins, and
Craig. Witnesses see Oswald walking from opposite direction from
Marsailes and further away from Tippit murder scene after 1:00 which is at
least a 3 minute walk to the murder scene. Yes, I walked that area too.
CJ
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Subject: Re: Markham, Oswald, Tippit, The Bullets, And "1:07 PM"
From: mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com>
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On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:30:23 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:53:12 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
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> > On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:19:17 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
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> > > On Monday, July 22, 2013 7:17:15 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
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> > > > On Monday, July 22, 2013 3:13:25 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
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> > > > > On Sunday, July 21, 2013 8:35:24 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
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> > > > > > On Sunday, July 21, 2013 1:51:20 PM UTC-4, dcwillis wrote:
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> > > > > > > On Saturday, July 20, 2013 7:55:21 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
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> > > > > > > > On Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:10:42 PM UTC-4, dcwillis wrote:
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> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 2, 2007 6:40:21 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
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> > > > > Oh, wait a minute. If Oswald wanted to kill Tippit, then why not shoot him while Oswald was hanging on the window of the patrol car? Tippit would have some trouble pulling his own gun, and couldn't easily move away from bullets coming his way.
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> > > > <snicker> Would Tippit be deader if he shot him this way rather than the way he did? Why not suggest he use a higher caliber gun also?
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> > > > <snicker> Would Tippit be deader if he shot him this way rather than the way he did? Why not suggest he use a higher caliber gun also?
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> > > > > > > > > > ** = And, yes, I'm basing this conclusion on the TOTALITY of all the
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> > > > > > > > > > evidence, not just CT-happy estimated timelines.
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> > > > > > > > > > The "short & stocky & bushy" junk is meaningless....because Markham
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > > > > > > positively IDed OSWALD, no one else.
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > > > > > > evidence, not just CT-happy estimated timelines.
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > > > > > > The "short & stocky & bushy" junk is meaningless....because Markham
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > > > > > > positively IDed OSWALD, no one else.
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > She positively spoke with Tippit for 20 minutes after he was dead too.
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > I have no idea here you are getting this nonsense from. Spartacus most
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > likely.
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > Welp, listen to her testimony:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > "Mrs. MARKHAM. No; not until everything was over--I never seen anybody until I was at Mr. Tippit's side. I tried to save his life, which was I didn't know at that time I couldn't do something for him.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mr. DULLES. Mr. Tippit, Officer Tippit, didn't say anything to you?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mrs. MARKHAM. He tried to.
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> >
>
> > >
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> >
>
> > > Mr. DULLES. He tried to?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
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> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mr. DULLES. But he didn't succeed?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mrs. MARKHAM. No, I couldn't understand. I was screaming and hollering and I was trying to help him all I could, and I would have. I was with him until they put him in the ambulance."
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > Sounds like she was talking to him to me,
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > I have no idea here you are getting this nonsense from. Spartacus most
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > likely.
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Welp, listen to her testimony:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > "Mrs. MARKHAM. No; not until everything was over--I never seen anybody until I was at Mr. Tippit's side. I tried to save his life, which was I didn't know at that time I couldn't do something for him.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mr. DULLES. Mr. Tippit, Officer Tippit, didn't say anything to you?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mrs. MARKHAM. He tried to.
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> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mr. DULLES. He tried to?
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> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mr. DULLES. But he didn't succeed?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Mrs. MARKHAM. No, I couldn't understand. I was screaming and hollering and I was trying to help him all I could, and I would have. I was with him until they put him in the ambulance."
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > Sounds like she was talking to him to me,
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> >
>
> >
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> >
>
> > So?
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> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > and thought he was still alive
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > So?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > and speaking.
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> >
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> >
>
> >
>
> > He may have been trying to mouth words, or could have been death throes.
>
> >
>
> > I`ve seen videos of people fatally shot with their mouths going like they
>
> >
>
> > are trying to talk. Here is one...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > WARNING: EXTREMELY BRUTAL VIDEO
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=edb_1373657415
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > and thought he was still alive
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> >
>
> >
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> >
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> > So?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > and speaking.
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> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > He may have been trying to mouth words, or could have been death throes.
>
> >
>
> > I`ve seen videos of people fatally shot with their mouths going like they
>
> >
>
> > are trying to talk. Here is one...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > WARNING: EXTREMELY BRUTAL VIDEO
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=edb_1373657415
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Here is one much more brutal than that one...
>
>
>
> WARNING: DON`T WATCH THIS, IT IS GRAPHIC AND BRUTAL...
>
>
>
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=175_1371100533
>
>
>
>
>
>
> WARNING: DON`T WATCH THIS, IT IS GRAPHIC AND BRUTAL...
>
>
>
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=175_1371100533
>
>
>
> > > If I remember correctly, the last bullet fired was into the
>
> >
>
> > > head.
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> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So? This doesn`t always mean instant death. Sometimes it doesn`t mean
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> >
>
> > death at all.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > And where did what you produce support your claim that this went on for
>
> >
>
> > 20 minutes?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > 'Short, stocky and bushy' might fit the guy
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > Actually the description Markham gave fit Oswald pretty well. She
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > estimated his weight to be 150, which is pretty close to Oswald`s weight.
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> >
>
> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > Plus she knew him to be the man she saw when she saw him in the lineup.
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > that Acquilla Clemmons saw reloading his gun after the shots rang out, and the guy driving the Rambler that picked up Oswald outside the TSBD and drove him off.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Remember that you're dealing with a dingbat here. They pressed her
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > about the 'short, stocky and bushy' because she had said that to Mark Lane
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > and he passed it on to them.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > > > > > Yes, and said that Oswald ran down the alley off Patton. Others said
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > > > > > Oswald ran down Jefferson. Did she ID the same Oswald or the other one?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > > > > > And so did Scoggins,
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> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
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> >
>
> > >
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> >
>
> > > >
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> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > Yes, after some 24 hours. He was in a police car as early as 1:22 Friday,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > but did not go to a lineup until Saturday afternoon! Perhaps he was
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > hesitant about something....
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > Let us know when you can firm that up.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > >
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> >
>
> > >
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> >
>
> > > >
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> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
> > > head.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So? This doesn`t always mean instant death. Sometimes it doesn`t mean
>
> >
>
> > death at all.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > And where did what you produce support your claim that this went on for
>
> >
>
> > 20 minutes?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > 'Short, stocky and bushy' might fit the guy
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Actually the description Markham gave fit Oswald pretty well. She
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > estimated his weight to be 150, which is pretty close to Oswald`s weight.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Plus she knew him to be the man she saw when she saw him in the lineup.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > that Acquilla Clemmons saw reloading his gun after the shots rang out, and the guy driving the Rambler that picked up Oswald outside the TSBD and drove him off.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Remember that you're dealing with a dingbat here. They pressed her
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > about the 'short, stocky and bushy' because she had said that to Mark Lane
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > and he passed it on to them.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > Yes, and said that Oswald ran down the alley off Patton. Others said
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > Oswald ran down Jefferson. Did she ID the same Oswald or the other one?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > And so did Scoggins,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > Yes, after some 24 hours. He was in a police car as early as 1:22 Friday,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > but did not go to a lineup until Saturday afternoon! Perhaps he was
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > hesitant about something....
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > > Let us know when you can firm that up.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
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> > > > > > > > > Davis, Davis,
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> > > > > > > > > > Callaway, and Tatum (among others as well).
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> > > > > > > > > > BTW, any "bushy" type comment that MAY have been made by Markham to Poe or
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> > >
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> > > > > > > > > > Callaway, and Tatum (among others as well).
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> > > > > > > > > > BTW, any "bushy" type comment that MAY have been made by Markham to Poe or
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > > > > That's nice, but it leaves out 'short and stocky'.
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> > > > Oswald was a little on the short side, everyone around him is always
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> > > > taller than him. And Markham put his weight at about 150 pounds. All the
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> > > > people who were that that made identifications said it was Oswald because
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> > > > it was Oswald.
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> > > > Oswald was a little on the short side, everyone around him is always
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> > > > taller than him. And Markham put his weight at about 150 pounds. All the
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> > > > people who were that that made identifications said it was Oswald because
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> > > > it was Oswald.
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> > > > > > > > > > anyone else (and she said she didn't say it to anybody, but let's just say
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> > > > > > > > > > she did)....could easily refer to Oswald's windblown, messed-up hair, like
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> > > > > > > > > > we see here:
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> > > > > > > > > > http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/images/oswald_custody.jpeg
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> > > > > > > > > > In fact, Markham specifically told the WC that Oswald's hair WAS, indeed,
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> > > > > > > > > > messed up, uncombed, etc.
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> > > > > > > > > > she did)....could easily refer to Oswald's windblown, messed-up hair, like
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> > >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > > > > > > > > we see here:
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > > > > > > http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/images/oswald_custody.jpeg
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> > > > > > > > > > In fact, Markham specifically told the WC that Oswald's hair WAS, indeed,
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> > > > > > > > > > messed up, uncombed, etc.
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