Alleged film of Oswald and Ferrie together in 1963

[mackbr...@gmail.com]

As most of you are aware, Robert Tanenbaum of the HSCA claimed that he saw
a film of Oswald and Ferrie at an Anti-Castro training camp (that
naturally, mysteriously disappeared) Col. Trenton Parker supposedly saw
the same film. While I lean towards the LN conclusion, I find this
information significant. Why hasn't this caused more of a stir among other
LN's? How many conspiracy witnesses are liars or mistaken, really? Surely
some of them must be telling the truth, like Sylvia Odio.

[black...@aol.com]

This one proves impossible to verify. First, serious researchers should
keep in mind that even principal characters - including certain witnesses
and investigators - can have biases and have been influenced by the
melodrama and romanticism of the assassination literature. Several of
those associated with HSCA had such biases, in my opinion, and their
claims should be verified by other evidence.

I don't understand: how such a film could have gone completely unnoticed
until Tannenbaum saw it; how nobody else from HSCA recalls seeing it; why
there appears to be no mention of it in any released HSCA reports or
documents; and why the film has never again surfaced since the HSCA days.
He said, they said.

Then there's the matter of the legendary "training camp(s) north of Lake
Ponchartrain" in Louisiana. In fact, there were only two operations which
could vaguely be described in such a way. The first was not a training
camp; It was a trailer full of arms left near a cottage, which the FBI
received a tip about and confiscated. The second was a tiny affair of 20
men, which lasted less than a month, and which even the participants were
unsure was an anti-Castro training camp. In any event, all of the
participants were Latin American and there was no involvement of any kind
by Ferrie, Banister, Arcacha or any other Norte Americanos.

It is unlikely that those three would have been involved. They were active
in anti-Castro affairs in 1961, but Ferrie was kicked out over morals
charges involving boys; Arcacha was fired over several issues, and
Banister simply fell away from the movement, all by early 1962 at the
latest.

I never say never, but the extant evidence argues against a 1963 film
showing these people and Oswald at an anti-Castro training camp.

[bigdog]

On Saturday, July 18, 2015 at 7:47:54 PM UTC-4, mackbr...@gmail.com wrote:

Witnesses are credible to the extent their accounts can be corroborated.
Without corroboration there is a distinct possibility the witness could be
either lying or mistaken.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/19/2015 12:12 AM, black...@aol.com wrote:
> On Saturday, July 18, 2015 at 7:47:54 PM UTC-4, mackbr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> As most of you are aware, Robert Tanenbaum of the HSCA claimed that he saw
>> a film of Oswald and Ferrie at an Anti-Castro training camp (that
>> naturally, mysteriously disappeared) Col. Trenton Parker supposedly saw
>> the same film. While I lean towards the LN conclusion, I find this
>> information significant. Why hasn't this caused more of a stir among other
>> LN's? How many conspiracy witnesses are liars or mistaken, really? Surely
>> some of them must be telling the truth, like Sylvia Odio.
>
> This one proves impossible to verify. First, serious researchers should
> keep in mind that even principal characters - including certain witnesses
> and investigators - can have biases and have been influenced by the
> melodrama and romanticism of the assassination literature. Several of
> those associated with HSCA had such biases, in my opinion, and their
> claims should be verified by other evidence.
>
> I don't understand: how such a film could have gone completely unnoticed
> until Tannenbaum saw it; how nobody else from HSCA recalls seeing it; why
> there appears to be no mention of it in any released HSCA reports or
> documents; and why the film has never again surfaced since the HSCA days.
> He said, they said.
>

Ok, I could say exactly the same thing about the BBQ picture and you
would deny it exists. That's what you WC defenders do.

Do you realize that a lot of the HSCA files are still being withheld.
Probably, because you like withholding files. How many police reports of
Ferrie raping little boys are you still withholding? Look at how many
years it took for the Bill Cosby stuff to come out.

> Then there's the matter of the legendary "training camp(s) north of Lake
> Ponchartrain" in Louisiana. In fact, there were only two operations which
> could vaguely be described in such a way. The first was not a training
> camp; It was a trailer full of arms left near a cottage, which the FBI
> received a tip about and confiscated. The second was a tiny affair of 20
> men, which lasted less than a month, and which even the participants were
> unsure was an anti-Castro training camp. In any event, all of the
> participants were Latin American and there was no involvement of any kind
> by Ferrie, Banister, Arcacha or any other Norte Americanos.
>

Do you know the exact year that the film was supposedly made and where?
It could have been at the CAP outing.

> It is unlikely that those three would have been involved. They were active
> in anti-Castro affairs in 1961, but Ferrie was kicked out over morals
> charges involving boys; Arcacha was fired over several issues, and
> Banister simply fell away from the movement, all by early 1962 at the
> latest.
>
> I never say never, but the extant evidence argues against a 1963 film
> showing these people and Oswald at an anti-Castro training camp.
>

Didn't you deny the BBQ photo until it was published?

[Anthony Marsh]

Why would WC defenders be interested in hard evidence?
They're all about covering up evidence.
Remember how they all denied the photo of Ferrie and Oswald at the CAP
picnic? Why wasn't that on the front page of the NYT on 11/24/63?

[black...@aol.com]

All Marsh comments below completely irrelevant, false analogies,
apparently incapable of rational understanding.

[Anthony Marsh]

Do I have to drag out all the old messages where you WC defenders said
that Ferrie and Oswald were never together at the same place at the same
time? Do you understand that some people Archive these things?

[Bud]

Yes, drag out a quote of someone here saying that Oswald and Ferrie were
never together at the same place at the same time. Back up what you say
for once in your life.

[Bud]

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 6:04:59 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 7/18/2015 7:47 PM, mackbr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > As most of you are aware, Robert Tanenbaum of the HSCA claimed that he saw
> > a film of Oswald and Ferrie at an Anti-Castro training camp (that
> > naturally, mysteriously disappeared) Col. Trenton Parker supposedly saw
> > the same film. While I lean towards the LN conclusion, I find this
> > information significant. Why hasn't this caused more of a stir among other
> > LN's? How many conspiracy witnesses are liars or mistaken, really? Surely
> > some of them must be telling the truth, like Sylvia Odio.
> >
>
>
> Why would WC defenders be interested in hard evidence?

It`s what we used to determine that Oswald killed Kennedy.

[black...@aol.com]

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 12:36:59 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> Do I have to drag out all the old messages where you WC defenders said
> that Ferrie and Oswald were never together at the same place at the same
> time? Do you understand that some people Archive these things?

Anthony, it's IRRELEVANT. The film mentioned may well not exist.

It's not all about YOU. It's not about YOU at all. Stay out of these
topics to which you have nothing to add.

[OHLeeRedux]

Anthony Marsh
- hide quoted text -

Do you have a collection of used tissues, too?

[black...@aol.com]

The frustrating thing is this: The poster asked a valid question, right in
my wheelhouse. I've studied this very topic recently and written a section
of a book about it, so my comments might be of some value.

But Anthony Marsh has, once again, completely diluted the impact of this
thread. Hijacked it so that it's all about him and his prejudices, his
grudges, his homophobia. My well-thought-out answer is lost in a storm of
Marsh's utterly irrelevant crap.

Have you ever considered NOT POSTING in a thread, Anthony????

[Alex Foyle]

Drum roll ...

[bigdog]

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 6:04:59 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 7/18/2015 7:47 PM, mackbr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > As most of you are aware, Robert Tanenbaum of the HSCA claimed that he saw
> > a film of Oswald and Ferrie at an Anti-Castro training camp (that
> > naturally, mysteriously disappeared) Col. Trenton Parker supposedly saw
> > the same film. While I lean towards the LN conclusion, I find this
> > information significant. Why hasn't this caused more of a stir among other
> > LN's? How many conspiracy witnesses are liars or mistaken, really? Surely
> > some of them must be telling the truth, like Sylvia Odio.
> >
>
>
> Why would WC defenders be interested in hard evidence?
> They're all about covering up evidence.

I had a bad day yesterday and I needed a good laugh. Thank you.

The difference between LNs and CTs is LNs explain the evidence and CTs try
to explain it away. All the hard evidence points to Oswald and no one else
so CTs invent reasons to dismiss the evidence. There simply is no hard
evidence that anybody except Oswald took part in the crime.

We know you like to hang your hat on the so called accoustics evidence of
a fourth shot from the GK, a finding that has never passed a single peer
review.

So tell us what other evidence you have that someone other than Oswald was
involved.

> Remember how they all denied the photo of Ferrie and Oswald at the CAP
> picnic? Why wasn't that on the front page of the NYT on 11/24/63?

All of us? Really? I don't remember doing that. I don't remember anyone
else doing that. Do you really need to be told why the photo of Oswald and
Ferrie at the CAP picnic wasn't front page news two days after the
assassination. BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW WHO DAVID FERRIE WAS TWO DAYS AFTER THE
ASSASSINATION!!! Why would anybody think that photo had any significance?
It was only after Garrison tried to trump up charges against Clay Shaw and
implicate Ferrie in the process that anybody could have thought that photo
mattered. It still doesn't matter. Over the course of his life Oswald had
his picture taken with lots of people Why would the CAP photo be any more
important than any of the others.

[bigdog]

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 12:36:59 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>
> Do I have to drag out all the old messages where you WC defenders said
> that Ferrie and Oswald were never together at the same place at the same
> time?

You do if you want to be believed.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/20/2015 8:46 PM, Bud wrote:
> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 6:04:59 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 7/18/2015 7:47 PM, mackbr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> As most of you are aware, Robert Tanenbaum of the HSCA claimed that he saw
>>> a film of Oswald and Ferrie at an Anti-Castro training camp (that
>>> naturally, mysteriously disappeared) Col. Trenton Parker supposedly saw
>>> the same film. While I lean towards the LN conclusion, I find this
>>> information significant. Why hasn't this caused more of a stir among other
>>> LN's? How many conspiracy witnesses are liars or mistaken, really? Surely
>>> some of them must be telling the truth, like Sylvia Odio.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Why would WC defenders be interested in hard evidence?
>
> It`s what we used to determine that Oswald killed Kennedy.
>

You never show any hard evidence. You destroyed it all.

>> They're all about covering up evidence.
>> Remember how they all denied the photo of Ferrie and Oswald at the CAP
>> picnic? Why wasn't that on the front page of the NYT on 11/24/63?
>
>

So indeed you didn't remember.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/20/2015 8:46 PM, Bud wrote:

From 1995. You may not recognize the poster's name, because he was
still using his old alias.
If you are clever and know how to use TRACEROUTE you may be able to
figure out what name he is using here.


From ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!usenet Fri Apr
28 20:19:14 PDT 1995
Article: 42317 of alt.conspiracy.jfk
Xref: netcom.com alt.conspiracy.jfk:42317
Path: netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!usenet
From: dcst...@crl.com (David Stager)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: OSWALD, David Ferrie and the Civil Air Patrol
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:39:44 GMT
Organization: Master of Technology, Inc.
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Message-ID: <3n1j9b$9...@nntp.crl.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crl9.crl.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.46

OSWALD, DAVID FERRIE AND THE CIVIL AIR PATROL

While he lived in New Orleans, Oswald became a member of the Civil Air
Patrol there. He had joined the student aviation organization at the age
of 15 and attended CAP meetings for an unknown period of trine, generally
believed to have been relatively brief. In her testimony before the
Warren Commission, Marguerite Oswald stated that her son Lee "joined the
Civil Air Patrol" at "age 15 1/2 or so" and attended CAP meetings with a
high school classmate, Edward Voebel. The Warren Commission Report touched
only briefly on Oswald's CAP involvement, noting in appendix XIII that,
"He was briefly a member of the Civil Air Patrol, and considered joining
an organization of high school students interested in astronomy."

Oswald's involvement with the CAP in New Orleans became the subject of
intense controversy, speculation and investigation within several days of
President Kennedy's assassination and has continued to attract attention
since then. The central question has been whether Oswald may have met and
known David W. Ferrie during that period. Ferrie was a private
investigator and pilot in New Orleans who has been widely regarded as one
of the more "mysterious" persons to figure in the investigation of
President Kennedy's death. Ferrie was briefly the subject of investigation
by the FBI, New Orleans District Attorney's Office, and Secret Service
during the week following the President's murder. Later Ferrie also became
subject of the controversial investigation by New Orleans District
Attorney Jim Garrison during 1967- 69 that led to an abortive prosecution.
This in turn led to serious charges against Garrison for the questionable
and careless nature of his investigation. The brief FBI and Secret Service
investigations of Ferrie had not focused to any significant degree on
Ferrie's background and working associations, while the subsequent
Garrison investigation focused exclusively on Ferrie's personal
associations with Cuban exiles and purported links to the CIA. They left
largely untouched important aspects of Ferrie's background, in particular
his activities and associations during 1963, at which time he was employed
by Carlos Marcello's attorney, G. Wray Gill. Ferrie's investigative work
for Marcello had brought him into close personal association with the
organized crime leader.

The allegation that Oswald had been associated with Ferrie -- and that
Ferrie may somehow have been involved with Oswald in the President's
murder--was first set forth by a colleague of Ferrie's in New Orleans.
Jack S. Martin, a sometime private investigator and friend of Ferrie's,
notified various investigators during the days immediately following the
assassination that he suspected may have aided Oswald in the crime. Martin
had known Ferrie for over 2 years and had visited him occasionally at the
office of Carlos Marcello's attorney, where Ferrie worked as an
investigator. On November 24, 1963, Martin contacted New Orleans District
attorney Herman Kohlman to advise that he suspected Ferrie may have known
Oswald for some time and that Ferrie, years earlier, may have been
Oswald's instructor in the Civil Air Patrol.

On November 25, Martin was interviewed by FBI Agent Regis Kennedy in New
Orleans and provided further information. He stated that he had informed
several people in the news media of his information about Ferrie and
Oswald and that he thought had once seen a photograph of Oswald and other
CAP members when he once visited Ferrie's home. Martin stated that he had
heard on television that Oswald had in fact belonged to the New Orleans
CAP and thus began to think that Ferrie had probably known him. According
to the FBI reports of his interview, Martin went on to voice other
suspicions about Ferrie:

Martin stated that he observed in Ferrie's home a number foreign made
firearms and it is his opinion that Ferrie could have taught Oswald how to
purchase a foreign made possibly have purchased the gun that was shown on
television. He advised that he saw similar type weapons at Ferrie's home
when he visited there 2 years ago.

Martin further informed the FBI that he believed Ferrie was an "amateur
hypnotist" who may have been capable of hypnotizing Oswald. Further,
Ferrie had once told him about a young friend who had witnessed an alleged
"crime against nature" that Ferrie had committed, a young man who had left
New Orleans "and subsequently joined the U.S. Marine Corps." Martin stated
that when he heard on television that Oswald had been a Marine, he began
to suspect that he was the young man Ferrie had referred to. Martin
cautioned, however that this might have only been a coincidence. Martin
further told the FBI of Ferrie's past history of homosexual arrests,
stating that "Ferrie is a completely disreputable person, a notorious sex
deviate with a brilliant mind. Further, Martin "suspected him of being
capable of committing any type crime." Martin had concluded by stating
that he felt that Ferrie's possible association with Lee Oswald should be
the subject of close examination as he personally believed that he could
be implicated in the killing of President John F. Kennedy.

The introduction of David Ferrie as a "suspect" or target of investigation
in the Kennedy assassination case was to result in the development of a
number of areas of information, allegations and evidence. The FBI
undertook a brief investigation into the question of whether Lee Oswald
had known Ferrie in the Civil Air Patrol. interviewing several former CAP
members, but did not make any final determination. In an interview with
FBI agents in New Orleans on November 25, 1963, Ferrie denied he had ever
had contact with Oswald in the CAP. He said he had served as a commandant
of the CAP from 1953 to 1955 and that his unit had met at New Orleans
Lakefront Airport. While his CAP cadets were instructed in the use of
rifles, he had not participated in that training. According to the FBI
report of his interview, Ferrie "stated that he does not know Lee Harvey
Oswald and to the best of his knowledge Oswald was never a member of the
CAP Squadron in New Orleans during the period he was with the group." The
FBI report continued:

Ferrie said that to the best of his knowledge he does not know any
individual named Lee Harvey Oswald nor has he ever known the individual
represented by photograph presented to him as that of Lee Harvey Oswald in
the CAP, in any business connection or in any social capacity.

Ferrie upon viewing the photograph stated that the profile view of the
photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald has a very vague familiarity to him but
the full face and full length photographs of Oswald are not familiar to
him.

Ferrie went on to state that he was in fact acquainted with Martin, who
first made the allegations about Ferrie and Oswald. He had known Martin
as a private investigator for over 8 years, and that Martin had "attempted
to insert himself" into Ferrie's "personal affairs." Ferrie further stated
that Martin had once been diagnosed as a "paranoid" in the psychiatric
ward of a local hospital. He had thrown Martin out of the office of
Marcello's attorney earlier that year, and Martin resented him for that
act. The FBI report stated:

[Ferrie] stated that Martin began visiting him at the office of Attorney
G. Wray Gill and that Mr. Gill did not want Martin hanging around his
office. Ferrie claimed that in June of 1963 he put Martin out of Mr.
Gill's office in an undiplomatic manner and that since that time Martin
has bedeviled him in every manner possible.

The FBI and Secret Service investigation into the possibility that
Oswald and Ferrie had been associated in the Civil Air Patrol came to an
end a few days after the allegations were first reported. A Secret Service
report concluded that "information furnished by Jack S. Martin to the
effect that David William Ferrie associated with Lee Harvey Oswald at New
Orleans and trained Oswald in the use of a rifle" was "without
foundation." It stated further that "Jack S. Martin, who has the
appearance of being an alcoholic, has the reputation of furnishing
incorrect information to law enforcement officers, attorneys, etc." It
also said that on November 26, 1963, the FBI had informed the Service that
Martin had "admitted to FBI agents" that his alleged information about
Ferrie and Oswald was "a figment of his imagination and that he had made
up the story after reading the newspaper and watching television."
Actually the FBI had overstated the content of its interview with Martin
on November 26, when they reported it to the Secret Service. As noted
earlier, Martin himself had cautioned the FBI that he had no evidence to
support his suspicions and noted that his information was just that:
suspicions that he thought merited investigation.

The Secret Service report also stated that Martin, during an interview
with Secret Service agents, had acknowledged he did not have any specific
details to back up his suspicions. Martin had admitted to being a heavy
drinker and stated that he may have exaggerated his information and "told
his story as though it was based on facts." The Secret Service report
concluded by stating, "In view the above, this phase of the investigation
involving William David Ferrie will be considered closed."

On November 28, 1963, in a Teletype to the Director and the Dallas
office the New Orleans FBI office reported that the investigation of
Martin's allegations was being concluded and noted that "all allegations
against Ferrie stem from Jack S. Martin who was previously confined to the
psychiatric ward of Charity Hospital, New Orleans, for character disorder.
Martin is well known to New Orleans office and is considered thoroughly
unreliable." The November 28, 1963, FBI Teletype also set forth additional
information obtained during second interview with Ferrie from earlier that
day. In it, Ferrie had again denied that he had ever had any contact with
Oswald. The FBI report of the interview noted, however:

David William Ferrie reinterviewed today and advised at time of Bay of
Pigs invasion of Cuba he was very much embarrassed and concerned over lack
of air cover provided and severely criticized President Kennedy, both in
public and private. Ferrie stated he has never made any statement that
President Kennedy should be killed with any intention to do so and has
never at any time outlined any plan or made any statement how this could
be done or who should do it. Ferrie said he is very outspoken and may
have used an offhand or colloquial expression, "He ought to be shot" in
expressing his feelings concerning Cuban situation. Ferrie said he has
also been critical of any President riding in open car and has stated
anyone could hide in the bushes and shoot a President.

Two weeks later, Ferrie furnished an additional statement to FBI agent
Regis Kennedy of the New Orleans office. He disclosed that he had
conducted CAP sessions at New Orleans Moisant Airport in addition to
Lakefront Airport, as he had stated earlier:

In 1955, or thereabouts, I assisted, for a time, the Moisant Squadron
of Civil Air Patrol, at Moisant Airport, New Orleans, La, though I cannot
establish through personal records or recollection the exact dates of this
connection. I have no records or recollection, to my knowledge, to show
that Lee Harvey Oswald was, or was not, a member of this particular unit
of the Civil Air Patrol. To my best knowledge and belief do not know Lee
Harvey Oswald, and have no personal recollection of ever having met him.
If I did ever meet him it was very casual and to my best recollection have
definitely not seen him in recent years.

The committee undertook an extensive examination of Lee Harvey Oswald's
involvement in the Civil Air Patrol and sought to determine whether Oswald
did in fact have any contact with Ferrie during that period. The committee
believed that the possibility that Oswald and Ferrie may. have been in
contact during that period presented significant questions that needed to
be resolved. A number of areas of information regarding possible
associations between Oswald and Ferrie in 1963 had been developed by the
committee, information that the committee believed to be of important
evidentiary value. For example, the committee developed new information
about Ferrie's various activities on behalf of Carlos Marcello in 1963,
and his personal contact with the Mafia leader during the fall of that
year.

During the brief investigation in 1963 conducted by the FBI, Secret
Service, and New Orleans district attorney's office of allegations that
Oswald might have been associated with Ferrie, another witness had
provided information similar to that of Martin. Edward Voebel was a former
classmate of Oswald's who had attended the CAP meetings with Oswald.
Voebel, whom the Warren Commission had established was Oswald's closest
friend during his teenage years in New Orleans, had attended Beauregard
High School with Oswald and had actually been the friend who first
accompanied Oswald to the CAP meetings. The Warren Commission itself used
Voebel's Commission testimony as a primary source of information on
Oswald's adolescent years.

Speaking of Voebel, Mrs. Marguerite Oswald told the Warren Commission,
"This young man and Lee were very friendly; he and Lee joined the Civil
Air Patrol together, and he often came to the house." Oswald's cousin,
Marilyn Murret, further told the Commission that Voebel was "the only one"
of Oswald's classmates whom he was close to and that Voebel "got him to
join the Civil Air Patrol, in which he was very interested."

On November 25, 1963, at the same time that Martin's allegations about
Ferrie and Oswald were being investigated, Voebel was interviewed by the
FBI. He stated that he had become a close friend of Oswald during the
period 1954-55, and that they used to play pool together after school at a
poolroom next to Oswald's home in Exchange Alley. Oswald seemed to be a
typical teenage boy during the period of their friendship. Voebel said
that reports that Oswald was already "studying Communism" were a "lot of
baloney" -- Oswald commonly read "paperback trash."

During this first interview with FBI agents, Voebel spoke of his
involvement in the CAP with Oswald:

Voebel stated that he and Oswald were members of the Civil Air Patrol
in New Orleans with Capt. Dave Ferrie during the time they were in school.
Voebel at this time seemed to indicate clearly that there had probably
been contact between Ferrie and Oswald in the CAP. He became uncertain
about such contact during the course of a second interview with FBI agents
later that same day, November 25, 1963. Then he stated that he had
persuaded Oswald to attend the meetings of his CAP unit at Moisant Airport
in 1955. Oswald had "attended two or three drills and possibly four
drills at the most." Voebel further stated that it was difficult to
recall how often Oswald was the CAP meetings because "Oswald had a knack
for being. there and not being noticed." The CAP unit met once or twice a
week and included 20 to 25 members, some of whom were girls. According to
the FBI report of this second interview:

Voebel stated that he could not recall if Capt. Dave Ferrie was
commander of the unit at the time Oswald attended meetings or whether
Oswald attended meetings prior to Captain Ferrie taking command.

Voebel stated that Ferrie was commander of his CAP unit during part of
1955, but that he could not recall precisely when or if it was during the
same period that Oswald attended the meetings. Voebel recalled that
Captain Ferrie was "very intelligent," reportedly held several degrees and
was then a pilot for Eastern Airlines. He said that Oswald quit attending
the Moisant Airport CAP meetings sometime after being enrolled as a member
because another' CAP unit (at New Orleans Lakefront Airport) would be
closer to home. Voebel further told the FBI that Ferrie had once taken
his CAP unit on an overnight "bivouac" in which Ferrie had instructed the
cadets to bring along rifles for shooting practice. Voebel did not believe
Oswald had participated in this outing. The FBI report noted that Voebel
received "a crank-type telephone call" during the course of the interview,
and had mentioned that he "had also been frightened" by a person who came
to his home earlier claiming to be a news reporter. This man disturbed him
and had "acted very suspicious?

An FBI Teletype from the New Orleans office to Director Edgar Hoover on
November 26, 1963, summarized that "Voebel was unable to recall if Oswald
attended meetings under command of Ferrie or with previous commander."

On November 27, 1963, 5 days after President Kennedy's murder, Voebel
was also interviewed by New Orleans Police Department officers. In a
report of this interview, prepared for P.J. Trosclair, Jr., of the
department, it was noted that Voebel believed Oswald had attended the
Moisant CAP meetings for "only about 1 month." During the course of this
police interview, however, Voebel also stated that while he could not be
sure, he thought that Oswald may once have attended a party given by.
Ferrie during their involvement with the CAP. According to the report:

Voebel stated that he believed Oswald attended a party (not sure)
at the home of David Ferrie (captain) right after the members of
the CAP received their stripes.

Voebel did not elaborate on this event. Two days later, on November 29,
1963, in an internal FBI memorandum from Assistant

Director Alex Rosen to Associate Director Alan Belmont, Voebel's account
of his CAP involvement was again summarized:

Edward Voebel, on interview, said he had been a member of the CAP, New
Orleans, for approximately 1 year, 1955-56. David William Ferrie took
over as commander of the CAP unit during this time. Voebel took Oswald
to one of the meetings and stated Oswald attended several meetings
possibly four meetings at the most.

On April 7, 1964, the testimony of Edward Voebel was taken by Warren
Commission senior counsel Albert Jenner in New Orleans. While the Warren
Commission had not actively investigated t e possibility of an association
between Oswald and Ferrie, Ferrie's name came up briefly when Voebel was
questioned about Oswald's activities with the CAP. Voebel recalled that he
had first become a friend of Oswald's when he witnessed him being beaten
up one day after high school. Two brothers who had earlier gotten into
fistfight with Oswald had sent a friend of theirs to beat him up. Voebel
noted that their school "seemed to draw a lot of bad characters" and that
"it was almost impossible to go to school without brushing against
somebody or getting involved in a fight." In his testimony, Voebel stated
that Oswald had attended "two or three meetings" of the CAP and "bought a
uniform and everything, and seemed to be very interested at the outset?

Toward the end of his testimony, Voebel was asked if he could recall who
had headed their CAP unit at that time:

Mr. JENNER. Who was the majordomo of the CAP unit that you attended ?
Mr. VOEBEL. I think it was Captain Ferrie. I think he was there when
Lee attended one of these meetings, but I'm not sure of that. Now that I
think of it, I don't think Captain Ferrie was there at that time but he
might have been. That isn't too clear to me.

The committee sought to locate Edward Voebel to take his testimony, but
learned from his father, Sidney Voebel of New Orleans, that his son had
died in 1971. Sidney Voebel could not recall what his son had told him
regarding his past contacts with Oswald and Ferrie. While stating that he
doesn't "have any proof," Voebel said he believed that the circumstances
surrounding his son's death were "mysterious." He had "died suddenly from
a blood clot" at the age of 31 when he suffered an attack of pneumonia.
The committee found that the incomplete and disorderly state the
registration and membership records of the New Orleans Civil Air Patrol
did not permit a clear determination of Oswald and Ferrie's respective
periods of involvement with the organization. In an interview with the FBI
on November 25, 1963, Alvin Meister, a commander the New Orleans CAP,
stated that the CAP cadet files were kept for only 1 year after a cadet
terminated his service. In an FBI interview that same day, a former
executive officer of the CAP noted another difficulty in trying to
reconstruct the membership records from the period of time in which Oswald
had been involved. Harold Tool then of the St. Bernard Parish Sheriff's
Office, informed the FBI that "most of the records of the squadron were
stolen in late 1960."

In an FBI interview on November 27, 1963, another CAP executive was able
to supply partial information regarding Oswald's involvement. Joseph
Ehrlicker told FBI agents that while he was unable to find a CAP
application by Oswald, he was able to locate a record indicating that
"Oswald was enrolled as a CAP cadet on July 27, 1955, at which time he was
given Serial No. 084965." Oswald was then enrolled in the cadet squadron
st Moisant Airport. The records did not indicate when Oswald left the CAP
unit. Also with regard to David Ferrie:

Ehrlicker was able to determine that Ferrie's first period as Squadron
Commander was terminated December 31, 1954. He was working at Moisant
Airport at this time. It was later found out that Ferrie subsequent to
this date was working with the squadron at Moisant without official
connection with the CAP. As of late 1955 he was no longer with the
squadron.

As can be seen from the fragmented CAP membership documentation provided
by Ehrlicker, Ferrie was involved with the Moisant CAP unit (in an
apparently unofficial capacity) for an uncertain period of time between
December 31, 1954, and "late 1955?' The same CAP documentation indicated
that Oswald had been involved in the same CAP unit in the summer of 1955,
having officially enrolled on July 27, 1955. Thus, while the CAP
documentation available in 1963 did not permit a conclusive determination,
the records themselves lent substantial credence to the possibility that
Oswald and Ferrie had been involved in the same CAP unit during the same
period of time. While Ferrie stated during his November 25, 1963, FBI
interview, that he had been a commander of the Lakefront Airport CAP unit
it was not until December 10, 1963, when he provided another statement to
the Bureau, that he said he had also worked with the Moisant Airport CAP.

During the course of its investigation of Oswald's involvement with the
CAP and his possible contact with Ferrie, the committee interviewed
O'Sullivan, a former high school classmate and friend of Oswald who had
also been involved with Oswald and Voebel in the CAP. Fred O'Sullivan had
originally suggested to Oswald and Voebel that they might enjoy attending
CAP meetings and asked them to participate m his squadron. O'Sullivan's
past involvement with Oswald in the CAP unit first came to the attention
of the FBI on November 25, 1963, when New Orleans Assistant District
Attorney Herman Kohlman informed FBI Agent Regis Kennedy that "An unknown
police officer had told the Intelligence Division of the New Orleans
Police Department that he was in the Civil Air Patrol with Lee Harvey
Oswald and that Ferrie knew Oswald?' Later that day, the FBI was able to
identify Fred O'Sullivan of the New Orleans Police Department Vice Squad
as the classmate. In an interview with Bureau agents that day, O'Sullivan
stated that he had persuaded his classmates, Lee Oswald and Ed Voebel, to
attend his CAP squadron meetings at the New Orleans Lakefront Airport.
Oswald and Voebel had come "to one or two meetings, but did not join."
O'Sullivan stated that Oswald thought the Lakefront CAP location was too
far away and decided to attend the Moisant Airport CAP squadron instead.
O'Sullivan told the FBI that Ferrie "was Squadron Commander" at the
"approximate time" that Oswald came to the Lakefront CAP meetings. He
added, however, that he "could not say for certain that Oswald ever met
Ferrie" at the time. He further stated that Ferrie himself also
subsequently began working with the other CAP unit at Moisant Airport.

In a second FBI interview, on November 26, 1963, O'Sullivan further
advised that Ferrie might have had contact with Oswald at the Moisant
Airport CAP. According to the FBI report of this interview, "Ferrie
transferred and assumed command of the CAP at Moisant Airport at about the
same time O'Sullivan thought Oswald might have joined." O'Sullivan further
informed the Bureau that he had only recently learned of Ferrie's
homosexual background. He also noted that Ferrie "had acquired a
reputation for being able to hypnotize people," and that he had once
hypnotized a man following one of the CAP meetings.

In an interview with the committee on October 17, 1978, O'Sullivan
repeated the account of his contacts with Oswald and Ferrie that he had
provided the FBI in 1963. Now a security director for Hilton Hotels, he
stated that he could not say with certainty that he ever saw Oswald and
Ferrie together, although. he believed they probably did in fact attend
the CAP meetings during the same period. In an interview on December 15,
1978, O'Sullivan again told the committee that while "Ferrie ran the unit
then, and Oswald came a couple, or a few times," he could not recall any
more specific information about the matter.

In another interview with the committee on December 9, 1978, another
former CAP member recalled Oswald's participation in the New Orleans unit.
Collin Hamer, now an official of the New Orleans Public Library, stated
that he had attended "about ten or twelve meetings" of the CAP unit during
which Oswald was also present. Hamer knew both Oswald and Voebel and said
that Oswald had begun attending the CAP meetings sometime around the
summer of 1955. He stated that the 10 or 12 meetings that Oswald attended
were held at the Eastern Airlines hangar at Moisant Airport. He further
stated that Oswald had attended the meetings for roughly 2 months, during
which the unit usually met twice a week, on Friday nights and Sunday
afternoons. Hamer commented that he had never been interviewed by the FBI
following the assassination of President Kennedy. According to Hamer,
David Ferrie had been present during the CAP meetings that Oswald
attended: "Ferrie was at all the meetings during the time Lee and I were
involved in CAP. He didn't always do the teaching, but he was always
there." Hamer told the committee that Oswald "was a real quiet kid" and
that Ferrie "treated Oswald just like the rest of us. He was just the
teacher so to speak." Hamer further stated, "I don't know anything about
whether or not Ferrie and Oswald had any contact outside of the CAP. All I
know is that Oswald was in our unit for about 2 months, and Ferrie ran it
during that time." Hamer further recalled that Ferrie was "a tough
commander" who became irritated if the cadets "goofed around at all."
Hamer also recalled calling Oswald's home on one occasion to make sure
that Oswald was going to attend a CAP meeting. Hamer did not know why
Oswald left the CAP unit. Hamer also told the committee that he was aware
that some CAP cadets had "hung around" at Ferrie's house and engaged in
outside activities with him. He did not know if Oswald ever had such
contact with Ferrie. Finally, Hammer said that he, himself, had become an
adjutant of the CAP unit several years later and "weeded out a lot of the
old files then," but did not recall handling any files on Oswald.

The committee also interviewed a former commander of the Moisant Airport
CAP squadron, Mrs. Gladys Durr. Mrs. Durr had been interviewed by the FBI
on November 25, 1963. In that interview, she advised that she had assumed
command of the CAP unit in October or December 1955, which would have been
several months after the CAP records indicated Oswald left. Mrs. Durr
stated that she did not recall knowing Lee Oswald, but that David Ferrie
had been "expelled" from the CAP squadron "at about the time" she joined
it. While Mrs. Durr became commander of the squadron subsequent to the
time when Oswald was a member, her recollection that Ferrie was still
active in the unit until late 1955 would indicate that he probably was in
fact with the unit during the period that Lee Oswald was in it. The
available records indicate that Oswald was enrolled as a cadet on July.
27, 1955, and his CAP colleagues generally recalled him being active in
the unit for a couple of months. Thus, with Ferrie's lengthy involvement
in the CAP ending (temporarily) in late 1955, according to Commander Durr,
the likelihood of Ferrie's service with the CAP unit during Oswald's
membership in the summer of 1955 seems logical.

In her committee interview, Mrs. Durr stated that while she did not know
Oswald, she could recall other cadets remembering that he attended the
meetings. She further recalled that Ferrie had originally conducted CAP
classes at New Orleans Lakefront Airport, but had then begun teaching at
Moisant Airport where she was commander. She said Ferrie was a magnetic
and intelligent man who had a strong following among the cadets. He also
had a reputation for having bad moral character, and on one occasion some
CAP cadets had become drunk at his home and engaged in various activities
in the nude. Mrs. Durr stated that such incidents were what led to Ferrie
being expelled from that particular CAP unit.

The committee interviewed another former commander of the New Orleans
CAP, John Irion, active with the group from 1955 to 1959. Irion, a
management and public relations consultant, worked closely with Ferrie
during their years with the CAP. The two were personal friends for over 10
years, and Irion once testified on Ferrie's behalf during a legal
proceeding against him. Irion, Ferrie, and the mayor of New Orleans were
once photographed together a CAP photograph later published by the New
Orleans Times Picayune.. Irion recalled that Ferrie was a "dynamic" leader
known for his intelligence. He recalled being introduced by Ferrie to
Carlos Marcello's attorney, G. Wray Gill, on more than one occasion. Irion
told the committee that he recalled Lee Oswald going through "basic
training" with the CAP during the period in which he and Ferrie were with
the New Orleans squadron, but he could not recall any specific personal
contact between Oswald and Ferrie. He believed that contact was highly
probable during that period. Irion stated that he did not recall Oswald
continuing with the CAP for a significant length of time following his
participation in the unit's "basic training." Irion said he was never
questioned by the FBI during the investigation of President Kennedy's
death.

The committee was able to locate and interview Anthony Atzenhoffer, who
had served as the platoon sergeant for the Moisant Airport CAP squadron in
late 1954 and 1955. Atzenhoffer recalled helping coordinate the small CAP
unit at Moisant and noted that his duties had included calling the roll at
meetings and handling registration matters. He told the committee that
Ferrie was an instructor at the Moisant CAP meetings during this period.
Ferrie had taken him on his first airplane flight and kept his small
private plane in a hangar at the Moisant Airport. Atzenhoffer recalled
attending a party with Ferrie and other CAP cadets during that period; the
party may have been at Ferrie's house. He also recalled that Ferrie once
tried to recruit his CAP cadets in the squadron to participate in some
kind of medical experiment.

Additionally, Atzenhoffer told the committee that Oswald was active in the
CAP unit during the period. He recalled Oswald's membership in the
squadron and described him as being a quiet young man. He could not,
however, remember any specific details regarding Oswald's participation in
the unit or specific contact between Oswald and Ferrie, although he
believed both were involved in the CAP unit at the same time. Atzenhoffer
stated: "I can't recall seeing the two of them together. I don't have that
detailed of a memory. But I'm sure they were there together at the same
time." Atzenhoffer said that he could not recall any more specific
information and added: "I can't say that I know anything about Ferrie and
Oswald being together anywhere else, except at the CAP meetings."

The committee also interviewed George Boesch, another former CAP member
in New Orleans who worked with Ferrie during that period. Boesch, now a
member of the New Orleans Fire department, had worked with Ferrie in the
New Orleans Lakefront Airport squadron of the CAP. He once accompanied
Ferrie to a national competition match of the CAP and had traveled with
him elsewhere. He, too., recalled Ferrie as highly intelligent and of
good moral character, a man devoted to teaching flying to young men.
Boesch told the committee that he accompanied Ferrie when Ferrie left the
Lakefront squadron and began teaching the CAP squadron at Moisant Airport.
He and Ferrie helped reorganize the Moisant CAP program, which by then
also included female cadets. Boesch also remembered Lee Oswald attending
the CAP meetings at Moisant during the period when he and Ferrie were
there. He could recall Oswald being there for 2 to 3 months while Ferrie
was the instructor. Boesch stated that there were usually not more than
15 cadets at these CAP meetings and that Oswald was relatively quiet.
Boesch did not recall anything in particular about the relationship
between Oswald and Ferrie, anything unusual; he did not know of any other
contact between them. Boesch stated that he was not familiar with Ferrie's
personal life and was unaware of his activities outside the CAP.

The committee also interviewed Jerry Paradis, the former recruit
instructor of the New Orleans Lakefront CAP unit. In confirming that
Oswald had attended the Lakefront squadron meetings (in addition to the
Moisant CAP meetings), Paradis corroborated the accounts of other Oswald
colleagues in the CAP. Paradis, now a corporate attorney, told the
committee that Oswald attended the Lakefront CAP meetings for several
weeks or several months. During the period that he had served as recruit
instructor, Paradis could recall that Oswald came to "at least 10 or 15
meetings," attending the CAP sessions "quite a few times." Oswald was a
quiet person and rarely discussed anything with him other than CAP
business and instructions.

Interestingly, when Ferrie was interviewed by FBI agents on November 25,
1963, in the aftermath of President Kennedy's murder, he recommended
Paradis as a CAP member who would be able to verify whether Oswald had
ever been involved in the CAP unit headed by Ferrie. Ferrie told the FBI
agents that he had never known Oswald and that other witnesses could
confirm that Oswald had never attended CAP meetings during the period that
Ferrie was active with the group. According to the report of his FBI
interview, Ferrie stated that "during the period he was commander of the
squadron, Jerry C. Paradis was the recruit instructor and took all the
squadron recruits through their training? Ferrie supplied the Bureau with
the home and business addresses of Paradis, so as to aid the agents in
interviewing him.

In his interview with the committee on December 15, 1978, Paradis stated
that he had never been contacted or interviewed by, the FBI about his past
involvement in the CAP with Oswald and Ferrie. He also stated that no
other investigators had ever interviewed him. Paradis told the committee
that Oswald had attended numerous CAP meetings at which Ferrie had been
the instructor. Ferrie "was always there" during the period in which
Oswald attended the Lakefront squadron. Paradis repeated that he believed
there were "at least 10 or 15 meetings" during which Oswald and Ferrie
were present. He told the committee, "Oswald and Ferrie were in the unit
together. I know they were there because I was there." Further, "I
specifically remember Oswald. I can remember him clearly, and Ferrie was
heading the unit then. I'm not saying that they may have been there
together, I'm saying it is a certainty." Paradis noted that he and Ferrie
were good friends and he had always respected Ferrie, even though Ferrie
was somewhat "unusual." Paradis stated that he had no knowledge of any
relationship between Oswald and Ferrie outside of the CAP meetings and did
not recall anything unusual about their contact at the meetings.. He
recalled that Ferrie was a "fairly stern, but generally likable"
instructor. Paradis also stated that Ferrie and others from the Lakefront
CAP unit sometimes participated in the Moisant CAP squadron meetings and
that Ferrie later left the Lakefront unit to instruct at Moisant
full-time. Paradis recalled that he had been surprised that he was not
interviewed by the FBI following the President's assassination, stating,
"I sure could have told them when Oswald and Ferrie were in the CAP. I
could have given them what they wanted?' Paradis further told the
committee that he did not believe the personal contact between Ferrie and
Oswald "mean[t] anything really," and that he never believed that Ferrie
"was a bad guy or anything like that."

[Jason Burke]

Because it gives Tony a string to claw onto?

[Anthony Marsh]

I don't give a fig about Ferrie and Oswald being lovers. It has nothing
to do with the JFK assassination. What I do care about is the hypocrisy
and cover-up by the WC defenders. Denying simple facts. Lying about the
evidence.

[bigdog]

Trying to implicate Ferrie in the assassination because he had his picture
taken with Oswald is like implicating Rosalyn Carter in the murders of 33
young men because she had her picture taken with John Wayne Gacy.

[Anthony Marsh]

I DID and still you deny it.

[Anthony Marsh]

You don't even remember your real name. Have another beer. Were you even
posting here in 1995? Or posting on alt.conspiracy.jfk?
Or CompuServe?

> Ferrie at the CAP picnic wasn't front page news two days after the
> assassination. BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW WHO DAVID FERRIE WAS TWO DAYS AFTER THE
> ASSASSINATION!!! Why would anybody think that photo had any significance?

The FBI knew who Ferrie was even before the JFK assassination.
Don't use ALL CAPS. Don't be a Ralph.

> It was only after Garrison tried to trump up charges against Clay Shaw and
> implicate Ferrie in the process that anybody could have thought that photo
> mattered. It still doesn't matter. Over the course of his life Oswald had
> his picture taken with lots of people Why would the CAP photo be any more
> important than any of the others.
>

That is not the point. The point is the hypocrisy, denial and lying of
the WC defenders. Just admit a simple fact and move on.

>

[Anthony Marsh]

Even McAdams put it on his Web site:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cap.txt

Now, go ahead and claim that he never wrote it.
Or claim that you don't know what his real name is.
Or claim that you can't confirm it because it's crossposting.
Or claim that the earthquake cut off your InterNet connection.
Use any excuse that comes into your head to DENY, DENY, DENY.

[bigdog]

Were you going to "drag out all the old messages where you WC defenders

said that Ferrie and Oswald were never together at the same place at the

same time" or were you just teasing us by pretending you were actually
going to back up one of your claims for a change?

[Bud]

Top Post: Did you think if you swamp-posted people wouldn`t realize that
you failed to back up your claim?

[Bud]

As usual you produced something and it didn`t satisfy your claim.

[bigdog]

No but I was posting on AOL in 1991 before you even began contributing there. Your stuff hasn't improved with age.

> > Ferrie at the CAP picnic wasn't front page news two days after the
> > assassination. BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW WHO DAVID FERRIE WAS TWO DAYS AFTER THE
> > ASSASSINATION!!! Why would anybody think that photo had any significance?
>
> The FBI knew who Ferrie was even before the JFK assassination.
> Don't use ALL CAPS. Don't be a Ralph.
>

CAPS are used for emphasis. The question isn't what the FBI knew about
Ferrie. The question was why the NYT didn't publish the photo of Oswald
and Ferrie together two days after the assassination. Do you think they
had any reason to think that photo was any more significant than any other
photos they dug up on Oswald. Ferrie had no involvement in the
assassination until Garrison tried to trump up charges against Clay Shaw
and implicating Ferrie in the process.

>
> > It was only after Garrison tried to trump up charges against Clay Shaw and
> > implicate Ferrie in the process that anybody could have thought that photo
> > mattered. It still doesn't matter. Over the course of his life Oswald had
> > his picture taken with lots of people Why would the CAP photo be any more
> > important than any of the others.
> >
>
> That is not the point. The point is the hypocrisy, denial and lying of
> the WC defenders. Just admit a simple fact and move on.
>

No, the point you raised was why the NYT didn't publish the CAP photo of
the two together. Why they hell would they? What fact is it that you think
I am not admitting? Why don't you admit it you raised a silly question?

[Alex Foyle]

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 4:42:03 PM UTC+2, Bud wrote:
> Top Post: Did you think if you swamp-posted people wouldn`t realize that
> you failed to back up your claim?

Ha, ha, swamp-posting ... that's exactly what he did many times when he
couldn't back up his baseless claims and he just did it again ...
hilarious.

[Anthony Marsh]

Jesus Christ, can't you pay attention for 5 minutes?
No one based it on the photo because no one knew about the photo.
It was first based on Six Degrees of Separation. David Ferrie knew Clay
Shaw, Clay Shaw once worked with the CIA, David Ferrie was in the CAP
when Oswald was in the CAP. You need a Master's Degree in Connect the
Dots. The photo came out many years later.
But again, my only point is to show that you guys DENY any simple fact
because YOU are afraid it will point to conspiracy.

[bigdog]

No you didn't. Since you first asked if you had to drag out all the old
messages, if you had actually done that, they would come after you asked
the question. So where are all those old messages you claim to have
dragged out?

[bigdog]

One thing about Tony. He's nothing if not predictable. Make a boastful
claim then fail to back it up. We've seen this movie before. Many times
before.

[Jean Davison]

What you posted from David Stager says the opposite of what you
claimed. It quotes a witness saying that Ferrie and Oswald *were*
together at the same place at the same time. Last paragraph:

"Paradis told the committee that Oswald had attended numerous CAP
meetings at which Ferrie had been the instructor. Ferrie "was always
there" during the period in which Oswald attended the Lakefront
squadron. Paradis repeated that he believed there were "at least 10 or
15 meetings" during which Oswald and Ferrie were present."

"WC defender" David Stager posted that. It's from one of the HSCA
volumes:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=955&relPageId=111&search=joined_aviation

Jean

[Anthony Marsh]

Prove it. Post those messages from 1991.
Did you know that AOL is an abbreviation?

>>> Ferrie at the CAP picnic wasn't front page news two days after the
>>> assassination. BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW WHO DAVID FERRIE WAS TWO DAYS AFTER THE
>>> ASSASSINATION!!! Why would anybody think that photo had any significance?
>>
>> The FBI knew who Ferrie was even before the JFK assassination.
>> Don't use ALL CAPS. Don't be a Ralph.
>>
>
> CAPS are used for emphasis. The question isn't what the FBI knew about

Oh, then how come our resident kook doesn't use that excuse for
constantly using ALL CAPS. On the InterNet it is called SHOUTING.

[bigdog]

So why did you want to know why it wasn't on the front page of the NYT on
11/24/63? Just to refresh your memory you wrote:

[quote on]

Why would WC defenders be interested in hard evidence?
They're all about covering up evidence.

Remember how they all denied the photo of Ferrie and Oswald at the CAP
picnic? Why wasn't that on the front page of the NYT on 11/24/63?

[quote off]

> It was first based on Six Degrees of Separation. David Ferrie knew Clay
> Shaw, Clay Shaw once worked with the CIA, David Ferrie was in the CAP
> when Oswald was in the CAP. You need a Master's Degree in Connect the
> Dots.

Playing connect the dots allows you to connect just about anybody to
anybody else without much trouble at all. I only need to connect a few
dots to establish a connection with JFK. My father knew Eunice Kennedy
Shriver who of course knew her brother Jack.

> The photo came out many years later.

I guess you anwered your question as to why it was on the front page of
the NYT on 11/24/63.

> But again, my only point is to show that you guys DENY any simple fact
> because YOU are afraid it will point to conspiracy.

Now if you could just provide some support for your claim that WC
defenders have denied the CAP photo showing Ferrie and Oswald existed. Why
would we deny that? It's not as if a photo of Ferrie and Oswald together
points to a conspiracy.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/23/2015 3:11 PM, bigdog wrote:

You were trying to leave 2 false impressions.
First that if some information does not come out immediately it is not
real, and that there are never any cover-ups.

[Anthony Marsh]

Baloney.

[bigdog]

This was my mistake. It was actually the old Prodigy board I was referring
to. I didn't switch to AOL until several years later. I do remember the
name Anthony Marsh joining into the conversation after I had been on the
board for a while. Are you telling us it was a different Anthony Marsh? I
also remember names that I'm sure are familiar to those on this forum.
Jean Davison. Martin Shackelford. Bob Artwohl. Bob actually converted from
CT to LN during my time on that forum. Even your stuff was tolerable back
then. That was before you adopted your Cliff Clavin/Mr. Know-it-all
personna.

> Did you know that AOL is an abbreviation?
>

Thanks, Captain Obvious.

> >>> Ferrie at the CAP picnic wasn't front page news two days after the
> >>> assassination. BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW WHO DAVID FERRIE WAS TWO DAYS AFTER THE
> >>> ASSASSINATION!!! Why would anybody think that photo had any significance?
> >>
> >> The FBI knew who Ferrie was even before the JFK assassination.
> >> Don't use ALL CAPS. Don't be a Ralph.
> >>
> >
> > CAPS are used for emphasis. The question isn't what the FBI knew about
>
> Oh, then how come our resident kook doesn't use that excuse for
> constantly using ALL CAPS. On the InterNet it is called SHOUTING.
>

If you use all CAPs all the time, it defeats the purpose of emphasizing
certain points. And I used all CAPs in that one sentence BECAUSE I WAS

SHOUTING.

> > Ferrie. The question was why the NYT didn't publish the photo of Oswald
> > and Ferrie together two days after the assassination. Do you think they
> > had any reason to think that photo was any more significant than any other
> > photos they dug up on Oswald. Ferrie had no involvement in the
> > assassination until Garrison tried to trump up charges against Clay Shaw
> > and implicating Ferrie in the process.
> >
> >>
> >>> It was only after Garrison tried to trump up charges against Clay Shaw and
> >>> implicate Ferrie in the process that anybody could have thought that photo
> >>> mattered. It still doesn't matter. Over the course of his life Oswald had
> >>> his picture taken with lots of people Why would the CAP photo be any more
> >>> important than any of the others.
> >>>
> >>
> >> That is not the point. The point is the hypocrisy, denial and lying of
> >> the WC defenders. Just admit a simple fact and move on.
> >>
> >
> > No, the point you raised was why the NYT didn't publish the CAP photo of
> > the two together. Why they hell would they? What fact is it that you think
> > I am not admitting? Why don't you admit it you raised a silly question?
> >

I guess you had no answer for this.

[bigdog]

I am not responsible for the false impressions you form from what I have
written. You can't point to anything I have written that remotely suggests
such a thing but you will go on claiming that I have. All I did was point
out what a stupid question you raised.

[Anthony Marsh]

Because it points out the stupidity of your argument.

> [quote on]
> Why would WC defenders be interested in hard evidence?
> They're all about covering up evidence.
> Remember how they all denied the photo of Ferrie and Oswald at the CAP
> picnic? Why wasn't that on the front page of the NYT on 11/24/63?
> [quote off]
>
>> It was first based on Six Degrees of Separation. David Ferrie knew Clay
>> Shaw, Clay Shaw once worked with the CIA, David Ferrie was in the CAP
>> when Oswald was in the CAP. You need a Master's Degree in Connect the
>> Dots.
>
> Playing connect the dots allows you to connect just about anybody to
> anybody else without much trouble at all. I only need to connect a few
> dots to establish a connection with JFK. My father knew Eunice Kennedy
> Shriver who of course knew her brother Jack.
>

That was ny point and the complaint that I made to Garrison in person.

>> The photo came out many years later.
>
> I guess you anwered your question as to why it was on the front page of
> the NYT on 11/24/63.
>

I was proving my point, a concept you are not familiar with.

>> But again, my only point is to show that you guys DENY any simple fact
>> because YOU are afraid it will point to conspiracy.
>
> Now if you could just provide some support for your claim that WC
> defenders have denied the CAP photo showing Ferrie and Oswald existed. Why
> would we deny that? It's not as if a photo of Ferrie and Oswald together
> points to a conspiracy.
>
>
>

I did already, but you refused to read that e-mail on the McAdams Web
site.

[Anthony Marsh]

Then why did you deny it until the photo came out?

[Anthony Marsh]

I back up everything I say. Then you refuse to read the damn documents.

[bigdog]

On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 5:00:02 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 7/24/2015 5:04 PM, bigdog wrote:
> > On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 10:00:32 AM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >> On 7/22/2015 5:42 PM, bigdog wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Trying to implicate Ferrie in the assassination because he had his picture
> >>> taken with Oswald is like implicating Rosalyn Carter in the murders of 33
> >>> young men because she had her picture taken with John Wayne Gacy.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Jesus Christ, can't you pay attention for 5 minutes?
> >> No one based it on the photo because no one knew about the photo.
> >
> > So why did you want to know why it wasn't on the front page of the NYT on
> > 11/24/63? Just to refresh your memory you wrote:
> >
>
> Because it points out the stupidity of your argument.
>

I hadn't even made an argument when you asked that stupid question. You
raised that question in response to the OP of for this thread. So it's not
my fault you raised such a stupid question. I've left the quote in right
below.

> > [quote on]
> > Why would WC defenders be interested in hard evidence?
> > They're all about covering up evidence.
> > Remember how they all denied the photo of Ferrie and Oswald at the CAP
> > picnic? Why wasn't that on the front page of the NYT on 11/24/63?
> > [quote off]
> >
> >> It was first based on Six Degrees of Separation. David Ferrie knew Clay
> >> Shaw, Clay Shaw once worked with the CIA, David Ferrie was in the CAP
> >> when Oswald was in the CAP. You need a Master's Degree in Connect the
> >> Dots.
> >
> > Playing connect the dots allows you to connect just about anybody to
> > anybody else without much trouble at all. I only need to connect a few
> > dots to establish a connection with JFK. My father knew Eunice Kennedy
> > Shriver who of course knew her brother Jack.
> >
>
> That was ny point and the complaint that I made to Garrison in person.
>
> >> The photo came out many years later.
> >
> > I guess you anwered your question as to why it was on the front page of
> > the NYT on 11/24/63.
> >
>
> I was proving my point, a concept you are not familiar with.
>

No argument there. I am not familiar with you proving a point.

> >> But again, my only point is to show that you guys DENY any simple fact
> >> because YOU are afraid it will point to conspiracy.
> >
> > Now if you could just provide some support for your claim that WC
> > defenders have denied the CAP photo showing Ferrie and Oswald existed. Why
> > would we deny that? It's not as if a photo of Ferrie and Oswald together
> > points to a conspiracy.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I did already, but you refused to read that e-mail on the McAdams Web
> site.

Back to the standard dodges. "I did already". If you already did why did
you ask, "Do I have to drag out all the old messages where you WC

defenders said that Ferrie and Oswald were never together at the same

place at the same time? Do you understand that some people Archive these

things? ". Since you asked that question you haven't dragged out anything
except one of your standard dodges.

You do know you aren't fooling anyone with this silly game of yours. We've
seen this movie too many times before. We know it's coming before you even
resort to doing it.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/24/2015 1:11 PM, bigdog wrote:

I did't claim that I had posted all of them. I'm just getting started.

[black...@aol.com]

See? See? The question was about a 1963 training camp film showing Ferrie.
I gave a response from a very informed perspective.

But Anthony Marsh's insistence on content-free comments on every thread,
pissing and moaning about imagined slights, dividing the world into good
guys vs. bad guys, and making everything ALL ABOUT TONY, has succeeded in
completely burying the original topic and hijacking the thread. And he
does this on EVERY thread I post on

[Jean Davison]

I didn't. Why do you make claims you can't support?

Jean

[Bud]

I`d like to see you back that up.

[bigdog]

On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 9:14:00 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:

I don't know how to read non-existent documents.

[Jean Davison]

You're right. I should've ignored him. Will in the future.

Jean

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/25/2015 9:19 PM, bigdog wrote:
> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 5:00:02 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 7/24/2015 5:04 PM, bigdog wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 10:00:32 AM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>>>> On 7/22/2015 5:42 PM, bigdog wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to implicate Ferrie in the assassination because he had his picture
>>>>> taken with Oswald is like implicating Rosalyn Carter in the murders of 33
>>>>> young men because she had her picture taken with John Wayne Gacy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jesus Christ, can't you pay attention for 5 minutes?
>>>> No one based it on the photo because no one knew about the photo.
>>>
>>> So why did you want to know why it wasn't on the front page of the NYT on
>>> 11/24/63? Just to refresh your memory you wrote:
>>>
>>
>> Because it points out the stupidity of your argument.
>>
>
> I hadn't even made an argument when you asked that stupid question. You
> raised that question in response to the OP of for this thread. So it's not
> my fault you raised such a stupid question. I've left the quote in right
> below.
>

Yes, you did. You made a phony comparison.

I would need to dig out the old messages that you never read.

[bigdog]

The rest of us are more interest when you are finished. Any chance that
will be before the end of the decade?

[bigdog]

You seem to have captured the essence of Tony in a single brief paragraph.

Two thumbs up!!!

[OHLeeRedux]

black...@aol.com

See? See? The question was about a 1963 training camp film showing Ferrie.
I gave a response from a very informed perspective.

But Anthony Marsh's insistence on content-free comments on every thread,
pissing and moaning about imagined slights, dividing the world into good
guys vs. bad guys, and making everything ALL ABOUT TONY, has succeeded in
completely burying the original topic and hijacking the thread. And he
does this on EVERY thread I post on

Best description of Marsh I have seen.

[Anthony Marsh]

Oh, well that's different. As I remember it Prodigy was a dial-up
service. I'll have to look for my old Prodigy messages.
There should be only one Anthony Marsh. In Somerville there was a second
Tony Marsh, but that was a woman named Antoinette.

>
>
>> Did you know that AOL is an abbreviation?
>>
>
> Thanks, Captain Obvious.
>
>>>>> Ferrie at the CAP picnic wasn't front page news two days after the
>>>>> assassination. BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW WHO DAVID FERRIE WAS TWO DAYS AFTER THE
>>>>> ASSASSINATION!!! Why would anybody think that photo had any significance?
>>>>
>>>> The FBI knew who Ferrie was even before the JFK assassination.
>>>> Don't use ALL CAPS. Don't be a Ralph.
>>>>
>>>
>>> CAPS are used for emphasis. The question isn't what the FBI knew about
>>
>> Oh, then how come our resident kook doesn't use that excuse for
>> constantly using ALL CAPS. On the InterNet it is called SHOUTING.
>>
>
> If you use all CAPs all the time, it defeats the purpose of emphasizing
> certain points. And I used all CAPs in that one sentence BECAUSE I WAS
> SHOUTING.
>

Have you seen a professional about your anger issues?
You remind me of that old guy from the movie shooting who hated EVERYBODY.

>>> Ferrie. The question was why the NYT didn't publish the photo of Oswald
>>> and Ferrie together two days after the assassination. Do you think they
>>> had any reason to think that photo was any more significant than any other
>>> photos they dug up on Oswald. Ferrie had no involvement in the
>>> assassination until Garrison tried to trump up charges against Clay Shaw
>>> and implicating Ferrie in the process.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It was only after Garrison tried to trump up charges against Clay Shaw and
>>>>> implicate Ferrie in the process that anybody could have thought that photo
>>>>> mattered. It still doesn't matter. Over the course of his life Oswald had
>>>>> his picture taken with lots of people Why would the CAP photo be any more
>>>>> important than any of the others.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is not the point. The point is the hypocrisy, denial and lying of
>>>> the WC defenders. Just admit a simple fact and move on.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, the point you raised was why the NYT didn't publish the CAP photo of
>>> the two together. Why they hell would they? What fact is it that you think
>>> I am not admitting? Why don't you admit it you raised a silly question?
>>>
>
> I guess you had no answer for this.
>
>

Too silly.

[bigdog]

What would happen if we all ignored him? I did that for the longest time.
Maybe I should again. Maybe we all should. I'll take the pledge.

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

"I would need to dig out the old messages that were never read"

__________ Anthony Marsh, on the enduring
popularity of his messages

[Anthony Marsh]

Maybe. It depends on what format they are on. No PC now includes a
programmable 3-1/2 floppy drive and some of them are on Commodore disks.

[Anthony Marsh]

I doubt it. You just can't resist making personal attacks.
You think that's the only way you can win an argument.

[Anthony Marsh]

They're all on my Web site. You refuse to look.

[Anthony Marsh]

ALL of the messages are Archived.

[Alex Foyle]

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 4:38:17 AM UTC+2, Anthony Marsh wrote:

> I doubt it. You just can't resist making personal attacks.
> You think that's the only way you can win an argument.

Irony alert.

[Mark Florio]

Are you serious? She does not make personal attacks. Jean asks for
documentation or provides it.

How many more such Nazi attacks before you finally lose all credibility on
here?

Mark

[Bud]

She showed that what you produced was the exact opposite of you claimed.
Thats called winning an argument.

[bigdog]

Way too late.

[Anthony Marsh]

No. I am not allowed to tell you what that is called.
It's like Charlie Sheen's "winning!"

[Anthony Marsh]

Get this through your thick skull.
I don't care to lie about facts just to get credibility with you WC
defenders. I don't care what you think. I am only here to correct your
false information.

[Bud]

Yes, it`s winning the argument.

[Mark Florio]

Well, try us, Tony. Answer Bud's point rather than evading it. Mark

[Mark Florio]

"I don't care what you think." This from a person who loves to claim that
he is a real researcher.

But let's stick to the point. Show me--show all of us--when Jean
personally attacked you. Mark

[Mark Florio]

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 9:43:06 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:

> On 7/20/2015 8:46 PM, Bud wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 6:04:59 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >> On 7/18/2015 7:47 PM, mackbr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> As most of you are aware, Robert Tanenbaum of the HSCA claimed that he saw
> >>> a film of Oswald and Ferrie at an Anti-Castro training camp (that
> >>> naturally, mysteriously disappeared) Col. Trenton Parker supposedly saw
> >>> the same film. While I lean towards the LN conclusion, I find this
> >>> information significant. Why hasn't this caused more of a stir among other
> >>> LN's? How many conspiracy witnesses are liars or mistaken, really? Surely
> >>> some of them must be telling the truth, like Sylvia Odio.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Why would WC defenders be interested in hard evidence?
> >

> > It`s what we used to determine that Oswald killed Kennedy.
> >
>
> You never show any hard evidence. You destroyed it all.

Taking your statement literally, Bud and we other "WC Defenders" on here
destroyed what evidence? Mark

[Mark Florio]

He has the right to post here (and I know you're not arguing that), and we
certainly have the right to ignore his posts. (Bill Clarke fought for that
freedom.) Despite my responses to him the last several days, I'm getting
close to raising my hand. His posts continue to drift off into the
personal and bizarre. Mark

[black...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 3:32:02 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:

> Get this through your thick skull.
> I don't care to lie about facts just to get credibility with you WC
> defenders. I don't care what you think. I am only here to correct your
> false information.

Anthony, you've said the SAME THING here in hundreds of posts, hundreds of
threads, hijacking them from their original topics. Will you please just
STOP?

[Anthony Marsh]

When you stop attacking me personally. Just debate the facts and stop
your personal attacks.

[Anthony Marsh]

First, have you ever heard of Freedom of Speech? Maybe not where you
come from. We still have it on Usenet.

Second, if it weren't for me what would you WC defenders have to talk
about? You say you all agree on the evidence. So what is there to debate?
At some of the conspiracy symposia we had over 500 researchers. When was
the last WC defender symposium? How many people attended? 5 for dinner
at Denny's?

We got the numbers. You got nothing.

[Anthony Marsh]

I did not single out Bud. I am not allowed to single out culprits.

[Anthony Marsh]

McAdams censors my messages.

[Anthony Marsh]

So you think Charlie Sheen was actually winning?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/29/2015 9:59 PM, Bud wrote:

You guys lost the argument 51 years ago.

[bigdog]

Another of his annoying habits is that he doesn't seem to bother to read
the posts he responds to. Half the time he doesn't even attempt to address
what you have written. I don't think he wants to. To him, each thread is a
place to pontificate about what he chooses to and he doesn't seem to care
if what he has to say has anything to do with what is being discussed.

You are right. I would never say he shouldn't have the right to post. Of
course he should. Whether I choose to engage him or not is my right. I
actually enjoy arguing with people with an opposing point of view as long
as they do that in a forthright manner. We so rarely get that from
Marsh.

[black...@aol.com]

On Thursday, July 30, 2015 at 9:31:05 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:

> > Anthony, you've said the SAME THING here in hundreds of posts, hundreds of
> > threads, hijacking them from their original topics. Will you please just
> > STOP?
> >
>
>
> When you stop attacking me personally. Just debate the facts and stop
> your personal attacks.

I'm not attacking you personally. I'm stating that you keep repeating the
same stuff over and over, all off-topic, irrelevant and disruptive of the
actual flow of the thread. And I'm begging you to stop.

You don't "hear" yourself doing this, but you are. Please stop. Please
post less. Please post only when you have something RELEVANT to add.
Please stay on-topic. Please STOP REPEATING THE SAME PARANOIA.

Example: Prove me wrong: What did you add to this thread??

[OHLeeRedux]

Anthony Marsh
- hide quoted text -

Tens of thousands of people go to Star Trek conventions every year. As far
as numbers go, they have the CT "researchers" (snicker) beat. The Trekkie
thinking makes more sense, too.

[Mark Florio]

On Thursday, July 30, 2015 at 8:34:51 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 7/30/2015 11:41 AM, Mark Florio wrote:
> > On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 11:06:57 AM UTC-5, bigdog wrote:
> >> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 4:24:02 PM UTC-4, Jean Davison wrote:
> >>> On 7/26/2015 12:22 PM, black...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>> See? See? The question was about a 1963 training camp film showing Ferrie.
> >>>> I gave a response from a very informed perspective.
> >>>>
> >>>> But Anthony Marsh's insistence on content-free comments on every thread,
> >>>> pissing and moaning about imagined slights, dividing the world into good
> >>>> guys vs. bad guys, and making everything ALL ABOUT TONY, has succeeded in
> >>>> completely burying the original topic and hijacking the thread. And he
> >>>> does this on EVERY thread I post on
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> You're right. I should've ignored him. Will in the future.
> >>>
> >>> Jean
> >>
> >> What would happen if we all ignored him? I did that for the longest time.
> >> Maybe I should again. Maybe we all should. I'll take the pledge.
> >
> > He has the right to post here (and I know you're not arguing that), and we
> > certainly have the right to ignore his posts. (Bill Clarke fought for that
> > freedom.) Despite my responses to him the last several days, I'm getting
> > close to raising my hand. His posts continue to drift off into the
> > personal and bizarre. Mark
> >
>
> First, have you ever heard of Freedom of Speech? Maybe not where you
> come from. We still have it on Usenet.
>

Poor Tony. Yes, Tony I have, and that's why I wrote he (that would be
you) has a right to post on here. It's right above this. Can you read
that? You don't remember but in several posts I've defended your right to
post here despite your arrogant belligerence. Anyone refusing to answer
you is not abridging your freedom of speech. Mark

[bigdog]

Tony hasn't figured out that there reason there are no WC symposium's is
because we know the case has already been solved and we know who did it.

[Alex Foyle]

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 1:47:54 AM UTC+2, mackbr...@gmail.com wrote:
> As most of you are aware, Robert Tanenbaum of the HSCA claimed that he saw
> a film of Oswald and Ferrie at an Anti-Castro training camp (that
> naturally, mysteriously disappeared) Col. Trenton Parker supposedly saw
> the same film.

Do you have a source for the claim that Parker saw the same film? Thanks.

> While I lean towards the LN conclusion, I find this information significant. > Why hasn't this caused more of a stir among other LN's?

Because other than Tanenbaum nobody could ever corroborate the films
existence. Dave Reitzes and many others have looked into this since
Tanenbaum gave birth to this myth in his novel "Corruption of Blood".

> How many conspiracy witnesses are liars or mistaken, really?

Really! Because not every witness is really a witness. Especially around
the JFK assassination there are literally hundreds of liars out there
making stuff up to involve themselves for whatever reasons. Judyth Baker,
for example, claimed in her book (pages 413-414) that she saw David Ferrie
editing the Tanenbaum film ... just like Mike Brownlow claimed that the
fictitious Evelyn and Arthur King saw Gordon Arnold (discussed in another
thread at the moment), JFK conspiracy lore is littered with liars and
crooks.

> Surely some of them must be telling the truth, like Sylvia Odio.

Now that is a different story ... why don't you open up a Sylvia Odio
thread?

But I highly recommend that before doing so please search this newsgroup
via Google for Sylvia Odio, because much has been said already and it's
always worth reading the old threads and posts on any given topic here
before opening up a new thread.

[Mark Florio]

Got an answer, Tony? Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

I even defend your rifgt to post. But some of the cover-up want to shut
me up.

Constant attacks telling me not to post.

[Mark Florio]

I just betcha he does. You poor thing. Mark

[bigdog]

Wanna bet he tells us he has already posted it. Learn to google.

[black...@aol.com]

On Saturday, August 1, 2015 at 9:23:49 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
But some of the cover-up want to shut
> me up.
>
> Constant attacks telling me not to post.

Post all you want, ON-TOPIC with RELEVANT MATERIAL, but please stop the
compulsive repetition about everyone being against you. Stop DISRUPTING
THREADS for NO REASON.

I don't know what you THINK that accomplishes, but EVERYONE ELSE perceives
it in a NEGATIVE WAY. I'm asking for self-control, not censorship.

I start a thread, or respond to a new one, and when I return to it and see
your name, I cringe. Please let me enjoy and experience the newsgroup
without having that feeling.

[Bud]

You guys have done nothing for 51 years, but thats beside the point. You
claimed LNers here were denying that Oswald and Ferrie were ever together,
and to support your claim you produced an LNer producing evidence of
Oswald and Ferrie together. That you didn`t even realize this (and Jean
had to point it out to you) is probably the main reason you`ve gone
nowhere. That, and the fact that you never really had anywhere to go with
your ideas.

[Mark Florio]

How far does your paranoid CT silliness take you?

"But some of the cover-up want to shut me up."

Are you saying black is a part of this "cover-up"?

Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

I don't know Black. Is that Lewis Black?

> Mark
>

[Anthony Marsh]

Thousands of books. Church Committe. HSCA. JFK Records Act. Oliver
Stone's movie JFK. We release the evidence. You cover up the evidence.

[Bud]

You guys have done nothing. Not a thing. No tangible results, nothing to
show for the effort. Zip, zero, zilch, nada.

[Anthony Marsh]

Enough to worry you.

[Bud]

It doesn`t bother me a bit that you guys have done absolutely nothing.

[Mark Florio]

No, and you gotta somehow admire the gall it takes to continue to post on
this thread without addressing the elephant in the room. Mark

[Mark Florio]

You cite Oliver Stone's film as proof of anything? Amazing.

You need to read up on the politics of the Church Committee.

Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

Then why are you WC defenders such rabid attackers?

[Bud]

We`ve had our shots.

But you could try to stop advancing bad ideas and exhibiting poor
thinking and see if the attacks stop.

[OHLeeRedux]

Anthony Marsh
- show quoted text -

Then why are you WC defenders such rabid attackers?

- show quoted text -


Pot, meet kettle.