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Ed Koch fires Michael Baden as CME
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John Fiorentino
Jul 21, 2012, 5:45:45 PM7/21/12
to
On another thread .John, I and some others have had a discussion about
Michael Baden and some of his work before the HSCA.
.John apparently believes Baden is an ok guy, while I have my doubts about
his competency.
Published here is some general information about Dr. Baden and also
information on the absolutely screwed up death investigation system in the
US.
Baden, who had been a Deputy Chief Medical Examiner since 1972 was
appointed CME by Mayor Koch effective August 1, 1978, based on results of
a competitive examination. At a meeting on July 13, 1979, Koch told Baden
that he had conducted inquiries as to whether Baden should be removed from
office before the end of his one-year probationary term. The Mayor had
received adverse written reports from Dr. Reinaldo A. Ferrer, City
Commissioner of the Department of Health, and Robert M. Morgenthau,
District Attorney of New York County, and favorable written reports from
the District Attorneys of Bronx and Kings Counties.1 The Mayor furnished
copies of all of these reports to Baden and asked him to respond. Baden
wrote two detailed, vigorous refutations of the complaints against him and
submitted them to the Mayor. Nevertheless, on July 30, 1979, Mayor Koch
met with Baden and advised him that he would be removed as CME. In a
memorandum delivered to Baden that same day, Koch outlined the evaluative
procedures used and the reasons for Baden's removal:
Since your one year probation period as Chief Medical Examiner will
conclude on July 31, 1979, I have requested of various government
officials their opinions concerning your performance in office. I have
carefully reviewed Commissioner Ferrer's memorandum of July 13, 1979 and
District Attorney Morgenthau's letter of July 12, 1979, copies of which
were furnished to you at our meeting of July 13, 1979, as well as your
replies of July 19th and July 20th respectively. In addition, I have
considered the letters from the other District Attorneys and Mr.
Morgenthau's response of July 30th to your letter of July 20th.
After review and consideration of the matter, I have decided to remove you
as the Chief Medical Examiner for the reasons stated in Dr. Ferrer's
memorandum and Mr. Morgenthau's letters. This letter confirms my decision
which I communicated to you at our meeting of July 30th.
In accord with the procedures set forth in Section 557(a) of the City
Charter, I am causing this letter, together with the letters referred to
in this letter, to be served upon you and filed in the office of the
Director of Personnel. Should you desire, I will withhold public comment
upon this matter or dissemination of this memorandum pending your making a
public explanation of the matters which are contained in the memorandum
and letters referred to above until 3:00 PM July 31, 1979.
Baden made no public statement about his removal from office during this
time period. Mayor Koch announced Baden's removal from office on July 31,
1979, and released to the news media the letters from Ferrer, Morgenthau
and the other district attorneys, together with Baden's written responses.
On August 3, 1979, Baden requested a public hearing to refute the charges
made in the Ferrer and Morgenthau letters. Koch denied the request.
http://openjurist.org/799/f2d/825/baden-v-i-koch-s-m-md
Below you will find a link to this article:
Coroners Don't Need Degrees To Determine Death
This is something I've been involved in for some time and this article
relies heavily on a yearlong investigation by NPR, PBS Frontline and
ProPublica.
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/02/133403760/coroners-dont-need-degrees-to-determine-death
Regards,
John F.
Michael Baden and some of his work before the HSCA.
.John apparently believes Baden is an ok guy, while I have my doubts about
his competency.
Published here is some general information about Dr. Baden and also
information on the absolutely screwed up death investigation system in the
US.
Baden, who had been a Deputy Chief Medical Examiner since 1972 was
appointed CME by Mayor Koch effective August 1, 1978, based on results of
a competitive examination. At a meeting on July 13, 1979, Koch told Baden
that he had conducted inquiries as to whether Baden should be removed from
office before the end of his one-year probationary term. The Mayor had
received adverse written reports from Dr. Reinaldo A. Ferrer, City
Commissioner of the Department of Health, and Robert M. Morgenthau,
District Attorney of New York County, and favorable written reports from
the District Attorneys of Bronx and Kings Counties.1 The Mayor furnished
copies of all of these reports to Baden and asked him to respond. Baden
wrote two detailed, vigorous refutations of the complaints against him and
submitted them to the Mayor. Nevertheless, on July 30, 1979, Mayor Koch
met with Baden and advised him that he would be removed as CME. In a
memorandum delivered to Baden that same day, Koch outlined the evaluative
procedures used and the reasons for Baden's removal:
Since your one year probation period as Chief Medical Examiner will
conclude on July 31, 1979, I have requested of various government
officials their opinions concerning your performance in office. I have
carefully reviewed Commissioner Ferrer's memorandum of July 13, 1979 and
District Attorney Morgenthau's letter of July 12, 1979, copies of which
were furnished to you at our meeting of July 13, 1979, as well as your
replies of July 19th and July 20th respectively. In addition, I have
considered the letters from the other District Attorneys and Mr.
Morgenthau's response of July 30th to your letter of July 20th.
After review and consideration of the matter, I have decided to remove you
as the Chief Medical Examiner for the reasons stated in Dr. Ferrer's
memorandum and Mr. Morgenthau's letters. This letter confirms my decision
which I communicated to you at our meeting of July 30th.
In accord with the procedures set forth in Section 557(a) of the City
Charter, I am causing this letter, together with the letters referred to
in this letter, to be served upon you and filed in the office of the
Director of Personnel. Should you desire, I will withhold public comment
upon this matter or dissemination of this memorandum pending your making a
public explanation of the matters which are contained in the memorandum
and letters referred to above until 3:00 PM July 31, 1979.
Baden made no public statement about his removal from office during this
time period. Mayor Koch announced Baden's removal from office on July 31,
1979, and released to the news media the letters from Ferrer, Morgenthau
and the other district attorneys, together with Baden's written responses.
On August 3, 1979, Baden requested a public hearing to refute the charges
made in the Ferrer and Morgenthau letters. Koch denied the request.
http://openjurist.org/799/f2d/825/baden-v-i-koch-s-m-md
Below you will find a link to this article:
Coroners Don't Need Degrees To Determine Death
This is something I've been involved in for some time and this article
relies heavily on a yearlong investigation by NPR, PBS Frontline and
ProPublica.
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/02/133403760/coroners-dont-need-degrees-to-determine-death
Regards,
John F.
John McAdams
Jul 23, 2012, 3:58:17 PM7/23/12
to
On 21 Jul 2012 17:45:45 -0400, "John Fiorentino"
In the first place, it doesn't help the conspiracy case to attack
Baden, since every *other* qualified forensic pathologist who has
looked at the evidence has reached the same conclusions he has.
In the second place, between Baden and politicians in NYC, we don't
really know who is at fault in the spats.
In the third place, even if Baden is an SOB, that doesn't make him a
poor forensic pathologist.
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
<jefior...@optimum.net> wrote:
>On another thread .John, I and some others have had a discussion about
>Michael Baden and some of his work before the HSCA.
>
>.John apparently believes Baden is an ok guy, while I have my doubts about
>his competency.
>
This is all ad hominem.
>On another thread .John, I and some others have had a discussion about
>Michael Baden and some of his work before the HSCA.
>
>.John apparently believes Baden is an ok guy, while I have my doubts about
>his competency.
>
In the first place, it doesn't help the conspiracy case to attack
Baden, since every *other* qualified forensic pathologist who has
looked at the evidence has reached the same conclusions he has.
In the second place, between Baden and politicians in NYC, we don't
really know who is at fault in the spats.
In the third place, even if Baden is an SOB, that doesn't make him a
poor forensic pathologist.
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John Fiorentino
Jul 23, 2012, 8:08:05 PM7/23/12
to
.John:
First, I'm NOT trying to "help the conspiracy case." What is wrong with
you .John?
I'm posting re: Baden's competence, (or lack thereof).
He's a poor forensic pathologist .John NOT because he is an SOB as you
say, (maybe he is and I couldn't care less), but because his competency is
questionable.
The FPP essentially handed Baden the roadmap, he was just along for the
ride.
BTW, what do you think of his performance in the OJ case?
PS. I hardly think questions about Baden's competence are "ad hominem."
John F.
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:500dac3b....@news.supernews.com...
First, I'm NOT trying to "help the conspiracy case." What is wrong with
you .John?
I'm posting re: Baden's competence, (or lack thereof).
He's a poor forensic pathologist .John NOT because he is an SOB as you
say, (maybe he is and I couldn't care less), but because his competency is
questionable.
The FPP essentially handed Baden the roadmap, he was just along for the
ride.
BTW, what do you think of his performance in the OJ case?
PS. I hardly think questions about Baden's competence are "ad hominem."
John F.
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:500dac3b....@news.supernews.com...
Anthony Marsh
Jul 23, 2012, 8:15:15 PM7/23/12
to
On 7/23/2012 3:58 PM, John McAdams wrote:
> On 21 Jul 2012 17:45:45 -0400, "John Fiorentino"
> <jefior...@optimum.net> wrote:
>
>> On another thread .John, I and some others have had a discussion about
>> Michael Baden and some of his work before the HSCA.
>>
>> .John apparently believes Baden is an ok guy, while I have my doubts about
>> his competency.
>>
>
> This is all ad hominem.
>
> In the first place, it doesn't help the conspiracy case to attack
> Baden, since every *other* qualified forensic pathologist who has
> looked at the evidence has reached the same conclusions he has.
>
Questioning an experts qualification is not ad hominem and is an allowable
> On 21 Jul 2012 17:45:45 -0400, "John Fiorentino"
> <jefior...@optimum.net> wrote:
>
>> On another thread .John, I and some others have had a discussion about
>> Michael Baden and some of his work before the HSCA.
>>
>> .John apparently believes Baden is an ok guy, while I have my doubts about
>> his competency.
>>
>
> This is all ad hominem.
>
> In the first place, it doesn't help the conspiracy case to attack
> Baden, since every *other* qualified forensic pathologist who has
> looked at the evidence has reached the same conclusions he has.
>
line of questioning in a court of law. Ad hominem applies to insults not
germane to the topic.
John Fiorentino
Jul 23, 2012, 9:47:38 PM7/23/12
to
Geez, do I actually agree with Tony again???
This is getting scary.
John F.
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:500dc538$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
This is getting scary.
John F.
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:500dc538$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Anthony Marsh
Jul 24, 2012, 11:37:35 AM7/24/12
to
On 7/23/2012 8:08 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> .John:
>
> First, I'm NOT trying to "help the conspiracy case." What is wrong with
> you .John?
>
> I'm posting re: Baden's competence, (or lack thereof).
>
> He's a poor forensic pathologist .John NOT because he is an SOB as you
> say, (maybe he is and I couldn't care less), but because his competency
> is questionable.
>
For me his competence or expertise is not in question. You've never
> .John:
>
> First, I'm NOT trying to "help the conspiracy case." What is wrong with
> you .John?
>
> I'm posting re: Baden's competence, (or lack thereof).
>
> He's a poor forensic pathologist .John NOT because he is an SOB as you
> say, (maybe he is and I couldn't care less), but because his competency
> is questionable.
>
talked to him in person. I have. He is an expert and he is brilliant.
The only problem is his bias.
John Fiorentino
Jul 24, 2012, 3:08:46 PM7/24/12
to
Tony:
I don't need to talk to anyone in person (especially someone who's in the
media incessantly) (just keep those flashbulbs poppin boyz) to make a
determination.
There's quite enough evidence to suggest Baden is less than competent.
news:500e9b7b$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
I don't need to talk to anyone in person (especially someone who's in the
media incessantly) (just keep those flashbulbs poppin boyz) to make a
determination.
There's quite enough evidence to suggest Baden is less than competent.
news:500e9b7b$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
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