ONLY 2 SHELLS FOUND
tomnln
claviger
> As of After 12:00 A.M. ON 11/23/63, THERE WERE ONLY two (2) SHELLS FOUND.
>
> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/only_2_shells_found.htm
Proof that Donahue was right.
Anthony Marsh
> As of After 12:00 A.M. ON 11/23/63, THERE WERE ONLY two (2) SHELLS FOUND.
>
> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/only_2_shells_found.htm
>
Not two shells FOUND. Two shells placed into evidence. Fritz pocketed
the third.
"Unbeknownst to his readers, all Twyman had managed to prove was
something that has been a well-known and established fact for years:
that on the night of November 22 the Dallas police turned over to the
FBI only two of the three cartridge cases they had recovered from the
sixth floor, along with the live round found in the rifle�s firing
chamber.
"The third shell (along with Oswald�s wallet, identification,
and notebook) was retained by Captain Fritz (who, let�s not forget,
was in charge of the investigation at this point) �to be used,� Fritz
said, �for comparison tests� since his office was trying to determine
where the cartridges had been bought. Fritz kept the shell in his desk
drawer until the early morning hours of November 27, when it was
turned over to FBI agent James P. Hosty Jr. (7 H 404, WC affidavit of
John Will Fritz; CE 2003, 24 H 347)
This is from an official document.
Anthony Marsh
Mislabeled. Not ONLY 2 SHELLS FOUND.
It was ONLY 2 SHELLS TURNED IN.
dcwi...@yahoo.com
> On 7/2/2009 1:01 AM, tomnln wrote:
>
> > As of After 12:00 A.M. ON 11/23/63, THERE WERE ONLY two (2) SHELLS FOUND.
>
> > SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/only_2_shells_found.htm
>
> Not two shells FOUND. Two shells placed into evidence. Fritz pocketed
> the third.
>
> "Unbeknownst to his readers, all Twyman had managed to prove was
> something that has been a well-known and established fact for years:
> that on the night of November 22 the Dallas police turned over to the
> FBI only two of the three cartridge cases they had recovered from the
> chamber.
>
> "The third shell (along with Oswald’s wallet, identification,
> and notebook) was retained by Captain Fritz (who, let’s not forget,
> was in charge of the investigation at this point) “to be used,” Fritz
> said, “for comparison tests” since his office was trying to determine
> where the cartridges had been bought. Fritz kept the shell in his desk
> drawer until the early morning hours of November 27, when it was
> turned over to FBI agent James P. Hosty Jr. (7 H 404, WC affidavit of
> John Will Fritz; CE 2003, 24 H 347)
>
> This is from an official document.
The real problem with the hulls comes earlier. Fritz (in an
affidavit) suggested that he did not even touch the hulls in the TSBD,
but at least 3 witnesses contradict this suggestion. Thanks to this
misunderstanding, no one can say for sure how many hulls were found,
or where they were found, or what kind of hulls they were....
dw
yeuhd
and Patton on November 22, 1963 by three of the eyewitnesses: Domingo
Benavides, who found two shells; and Barbara Jeanette Davis and
Virginia Davis, who found one shell each.
From an affidavit signed on November 22 by Virginia Davis:
"Jeanette found a empty shell that the man had unloaded and gave it to
the police. After the Police had left I found a empty shell in our
yard. This is the same shell I gave to Detective Dhority."
From an affidavit signed on November 22 by Barbara Jeanette Davis:
"When the police arrived I showed one of them where I saw this man
emptying his gun and we found a shell. After the police had left I
went back into the yard and Virginia found another shell which I
turned over to the police."
From the WC testimony of Domingo Benavides:
Mr. BELIN. Now you saw him throw two shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You saw where he threw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you later go back in that area and try and find the
shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES. Yes. Well, RIGHT AFTER THAT I went back and I knew
exactly where they was at, and I went over and picked up one in my
hand, not thinking and I dropped it, that maybe they want fingerprints
off it, so I took out an empty pack of cigarettes I had and picked
them up with a little stick and put them in this cigarette package; a
chrome looking shell.
Mr. BELIN. A chrome looking shell?
Mr. BENAVIDES. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how long did it take you to locate the shells once
you stared looking for them?
Mr. BENAVIDES. Just a minute. I mean not very long at all. Just walked
directly to them.
. . . . .
Mr. BELIN. When the officers came out there, did you tell them what
you had seen?
Mr. BENAVIDES. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do?
Mr. BENAVIDES. I left right after. I give the shells to the officer. I
turned around and went back and we returned to work.
dcwi...@yahoo.com
Notice that you have no affidavit from Benavides on 11/22. Nor on any day
before his WC testimony. Nor any interview or statement with/by him
before his WC testimony. Nothing before his WC testimony. Only after his
brother (coincidentally) dies do we hear one word directly from Benavides.
Upshot: Take his testimony with a grain or 2 of salt....
dw
Anthony Marsh
> On Jul 2, 9:13 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 7/2/2009 1:01 AM, tomnln wrote:
>>
>>> As of After 12:00 A.M. ON 11/23/63, THERE WERE ONLY two (2) SHELLS FOUND.
>>
>>> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/only_2_shells_found.htm
>>
>> Not two shells FOUND. Two shells placed into evidence. Fritz pocketed
>> the third.
>>
>> "Unbeknownst to his readers, all Twyman had managed to prove was
>> something that has been a well-known and established fact for years:
>> that on the night of November 22 the Dallas police turned over to the
>> FBI only two of the three cartridge cases they had recovered from the
>> chamber.
>>
>> "The third shell (along with Oswald?s wallet, identification,
>> and notebook) was retained by Captain Fritz (who, let?s not forget,
>> was in charge of the investigation at this point) ?to be used,? Fritz
>> said, ?for comparison tests? since his office was trying to determine
>> where the cartridges had been bought. Fritz kept the shell in his desk
>> drawer until the early morning hours of November 27, when it was
>> turned over to FBI agent James P. Hosty Jr. (7 H 404, WC affidavit of
>> John Will Fritz; CE 2003, 24 H 347)
>>
>> This is from an official document.
>
> The real problem with the hulls comes earlier. Fritz (in an
> affidavit) suggested that he did not even touch the hulls in the TSBD,
> but at least 3 witnesses contradict this suggestion. Thanks to this
> misunderstanding, no one can say for sure how many hulls were found,
> or where they were found, or what kind of hulls they were....
> dw
>
We know that three empty WCC rifle cartridges were seen, photographed, and
picked up from the floor. Two were sent to the FBI and Fritz pocketed the
third. I have speculated that it was the one with the dented lip which
intrigued Fritz, but I can't be sure. There seem to be some missing FBI
photos of the evidence.
dcwi...@yahoo.com
Wrong order. Hulls were picked up from the floor by Fritz--three
witnesses--then, later, yes, 3 hulls were photographed. Then picked
up by Det. *Sims* (I believe). Do you trust Fritz's pocket? Do you
take Fritz's word against Mooney, Faulkner & Alyea? The hulls from
the depository seem to me about the most problematic evidence....
dw
yeuhd
> Notice that you have no affidavit from Benavides on 11/22. Nor on any day
> before his WC testimony. Nor any interview or statement with/by him
> before his WC testimony. Nothing before his WC testimony. Only after his
> brother (coincidentally) dies do we hear one word directly from Benavides.
> Upshot: Take his testimony with a grain or 2 of salt....
Domingo Benavides' brother Edward was shot to death in a Dallas bar by
a drinking companion, who confessed to the killing, and was sent to
prison for manslaughter. What does that have to do with Domingo or his
testimony?
dcwi...@yahoo.com
Prof. McAdams, a few years back, had his class researching the Edward
incident, but as I recall they could not come up with much, if anything.
That case is still wide open.... And, again, there's nothing from Domingo
to go on in the 4 or so months between Tippit's execution and DB's WC
testimony. It's as if he disappeared for 4 months. Of course, he
apparently did do an affidavit 11/22, but that disappeared forever. The
latest mystery: the FBI sez D. Benavides died fairly recently, but others
contradict the claim....
dw
Anthony Marsh
> the depository seem to me about the most problematic evidence....
> dw
Of course they are problematic, but I call Fritz a klutz, not a
conspirator. He made a mistake in pocketing that cartridge. I personally
feel that he wanted the credit for finding out where the ammo came from
rather than let the FBI take credit for everything.
yeuhd
> On Jul 5, 9:33 am, yeuhd <NeedlesWax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 5, 12:33 am, dcwill...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > Notice that you have no affidavit from Benavides on 11/22. Nor on any day
> > > before his WC testimony. Nor any interview or statement with/by him
> > > before his WC testimony. Nothing before his WC testimony. Only after his
> > > brother (coincidentally) dies do we hear one word directly from Benavides.
> > > Upshot: Take his testimony with a grain or 2 of salt....
>
> > Domingo Benavides' brother Edward was shot to death in a Dallas bar by
> > a drinking companion, who confessed to the killing, and was sent to
> > prison for manslaughter. What does that have to do with Domingo or his
> > testimony?
>
> Prof. McAdams, a few years back, had his class researching the Edward
> incident, but as I recall they could not come up with much, if anything.
> That case is still wide open.
No, it's not. The drinking companion who shot Edward Benavides in the
bar confessed, he was convicted of manslaughter, and he was sent to
prison.
> The
> latest mystery: the FBI sez D. Benavides died fairly recently, but others
> contradict the claim....
Domingo Benavides was born in Dallas, Texas on 9 April 1937, per his
WC testimony. He died in Las Vegas, Nevada on 29 September 2005.
Social Security Death Index:
Name: Domingo Benavides
SSN: 456-52-5107
ZIP code of last residence: 89101 (Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada)
Born: 9 April 1937
Died: 29 September 2005
State (Year) SSN issued: Texas (1937–1950)
Las Vegas Review-Journal, 6 October 2005:
Domingo Benavides, 68, of Las Vegas, died Sept. 29, 2005. He was a retired
auto body technician and served in the U.S. Navy. He is survived by his
sons, James Bryan and Michael Keith, both of Nevada; and daughters, Denine
Rena of Michigan, Denise Regina Resanovich, Lisa Micheal Gary and Monica
Lane Sandoval, all of Nevada. Visitation from 10 a.m.-2 p.m. Thursday,
Oct. 6, with services following, both at Palm Mortuary, 7600 S. Eastern
Ave. Burial at Palm Valley View Cemetery.
John McAdams
>On Jul 5, 7:18�pm, dcwill...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Jul 5, 9:33�am, yeuhd <NeedlesWax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jul 5, 12:33�am, dcwill...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> > > Notice that you have no affidavit from Benavides on 11/22. �Nor on any day
>> > > before his WC testimony. �Nor any interview or statement with/by him
>> > > before his WC testimony. �Nothing before his WC testimony. �Only after his
>> > > brother (coincidentally) dies do we hear one word directly from Benavides. �
>> > > Upshot: Take his testimony with a grain or 2 of salt....
>>
>> > Domingo Benavides' brother Edward was shot to death in a Dallas bar by
>> > a drinking companion, who confessed to the killing, and was sent to
>> > prison for manslaughter. What does that have to do with Domingo or his
>> > testimony?
>>
>> Prof. McAdams, a few years back, had his class researching the Edward
>> incident, but as I recall they could not come up with much, if anything.
>> That case is still wide open.
>
>No, it's not. The drinking companion who shot Edward Benavides in the
>bar confessed, he was convicted of manslaughter, and he was sent to
>prison.
>
How about a citation on this?
My students (including some of my best ones) have had trouble with
this.
This past spring semester, one of my students was actually in Dallas
and Austin and could not find evidence that any Edward Benavides was
murdered.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
dcwi...@yahoo.com
> On Jul 5, 7:18 pm, dcwill...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 5, 9:33 am, yeuhd <NeedlesWax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 5, 12:33 am, dcwill...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > Notice that you have no affidavit from Benavides on 11/22. Nor on any day
> > > > before his WC testimony. Nor any interview or statement with/by him
> > > > before his WC testimony. Nothing before his WC testimony. Only after his
> > > > brother (coincidentally) dies do we hear one word directly from Benavides.
> > > > Upshot: Take his testimony with a grain or 2 of salt....
>
> > > Domingo Benavides' brother Edward was shot to death in a Dallas bar by
> > > a drinking companion, who confessed to the killing, and was sent to
> > > prison for manslaughter. What does that have to do with Domingo or his
> > > testimony?
>
> > Prof. McAdams, a few years back, had his class researching the Edward
> > incident, but as I recall they could not come up with much, if anything.
> > That case is still wide open.
>
> No, it's not.
See McAdams, below, or above....
dcwi...@yahoo.com
originally pocketed *all* the hulls. Alyea, in later years, said he
then gave them to Studebaker for photographing. Klutz or conspirator,
Fritz certainly problematicized them hulls....
dw
yeuhd
Domingo's brother Eddie Benavides was born Lee Roy (sometimes spelled
"Leroy") Benavides in Texas on 1 July 1933. (1) He lived at 517 E.
Jefferson, Dallas (2) — next to Dootch Motors, where Domingo worked (3),
and one block from the Tippit shooting site. He was 29 years old at death.
(4)
(1) Ancestry.com. Texas Birth Index, 1903-1997 [database on-line]. Their
mother's first name was Elvis, believe it or not.
(2) "Gunman Wins Race after Robbing Store", Dallas Morning News, 28
January 1960. Leroy Benavides was one of two passers-by who chased the
gunman.
(3) WC testimony of Domingo Benavides. (6 H 454)
(4) Charles Roberts, "The Truth About the Assassination", Grosset &
Dunlap, 1967, p. 96. Copies available at Milwaukee Public Library and
Wisconsin Historical Society Library.
John McAdams
>On Jul 5, 9:32�ｿｽpm, John McAdams <john.mcad...@marquette.edu> wrote:
>> On 5 Jul 2009 21:29:52 -0400, yeuhd <NeedlesWax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jul 5, 7:18�ｿｽpm, dcwill...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> On Jul 5, 9:33�ｿｽam, yeuhd <NeedlesWax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > On Jul 5, 12:33�ｿｽam, dcwill...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> >> > > Notice that you have no affidavit from Benavides on 11/22. �ｿｽNor on any day
>> >> > > before his WC testimony. �ｿｽNor any interview or statement with/by him
>> >> > > before his WC testimony. �ｿｽNothing before his WC testimony. �ｿｽOnly after his
>> >> > > brother (coincidentally) dies do we hear one word directly from Benavides. �ｿｽ
>> >> > > Upshot: Take his testimony with a grain or 2 of salt....
>>
>> >> > Domingo Benavides' brother Edward was shot to death in a Dallas bar by
>> >> > a drinking companion, who confessed to the killing, and was sent to
>> >> > prison for manslaughter. What does that have to do with Domingo or his
>> >> > testimony?
>>
>> >> Prof. McAdams, a few years back, had his class researching the Edward
>> >> incident, but as I recall they could not come up with much, if anything.
>> >> That case is still wide open.
>>
>> >No, it's not. The drinking companion who shot Edward Benavides in the
>> >bar confessed, he was convicted of manslaughter, and he was sent to
>> >prison.
>>
>> How about a citation on this?
>>
>> My students (including some of my best ones) have had trouble with
>> this.
>>
>> This past spring semester, one of my students was actually in Dallas
>> and Austin and could not find evidence that any Edward Benavides was
>> murdered.
>
>
>Domingo's brother Eddie Benavides was born Lee Roy (sometimes spelled
>"Leroy") Benavides in Texas on 1 July 1933. (1) He lived at 517 E.
>Jefferson, Dallas (2) �ｿｽ next to Dootch Motors, where Domingo worked (3),
>and one block from the Tippit shooting site. He was 29 years old at death.
>(4)
>
>(1) Ancestry.com. Texas Birth Index, 1903-1997 [database on-line]. Their
>mother's first name was Elvis, believe it or not.
>
>(2) "Gunman Wins Race after Robbing Store", Dallas Morning News, 28
>January 1960. Leroy Benavides was one of two passers-by who chased the
>gunman.
>
>(3) WC testimony of Domingo Benavides. (6 H 454)
>
>(4) Charles Roberts, "The Truth About the Assassination", Grosset &
>Dunlap, 1967, p. 96. Copies available at Milwaukee Public Library and
>Wisconsin Historical Society Library.
OK, I'm impressed you've done some very good research on this, but how
about a citation for this?
>> >No, it's not. The drinking companion who shot Edward Benavides in the
>> >bar confessed, he was convicted of manslaughter, and he was sent to
>> >prison.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
yeuhd
> On 6 Jul 2009 19:47:33 -0400, yeuhd <NeedlesWax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jul 5, 9:32 pm, John McAdams <john.mcad...@marquette.edu> wrote:
> >> On 5 Jul 2009 21:29:52 -0400, yeuhd <NeedlesWax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> On Jul 5, 9:33 am, yeuhd <NeedlesWax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > On Jul 5, 12:33 am, dcwill...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >> >> > > Notice that you have no affidavit from Benavides on 11/22. Nor on any day
> >> >> > > before his WC testimony. Nor any interview or statement with/by him
> >> >> > > brother (coincidentally) dies do we hear one word directly from Benavides.
>
> >> >> > Domingo Benavides' brother Edward was shot to death in a Dallas bar by
> >> >> > a drinking companion, who confessed to the killing, and was sent to
> >> >> > prison for manslaughter. What does that have to do with Domingo or his
> >> >> > testimony?
>
> >> >> Prof. McAdams, a few years back, had his class researching the Edward
> >> >> incident, but as I recall they could not come up with much, if anything.
> >> >> That case is still wide open.
>
> >> >No, it's not. The drinking companion who shot Edward Benavides in the
> >> >bar confessed, he was convicted of manslaughter, and he was sent to
> >> >prison.
>
> >> How about a citation on this?
>
> >> My students (including some of my best ones) have had trouble with
> >> this.
>
> >> This past spring semester, one of my students was actually in Dallas
> >> and Austin and could not find evidence that any Edward Benavides was
> >> murdered.
>
> >Domingo's brother Eddie Benavides was born Lee Roy (sometimes spelled
> >"Leroy") Benavides in Texas on 1 July 1933. (1) He lived at 517 E.
> >and one block from the Tippit shooting site. He was 29 years old at death.
> >(4)
>
> >(1) Ancestry.com. Texas Birth Index, 1903-1997 [database on-line]. Their
> >mother's first name was Elvis, believe it or not.
>
> >(2) "Gunman Wins Race after Robbing Store", Dallas Morning News, 28
> >January 1960. Leroy Benavides was one of two passers-by who chased the
> >gunman.
>
> >(3) WC testimony of Domingo Benavides. (6 H 454)
>
> >(4) Charles Roberts, "The Truth About the Assassination", Grosset &
> >Dunlap, 1967, p. 96. Copies available at Milwaukee Public Library and
> >Wisconsin Historical Society Library.
>
> OK, I'm impressed you've done some very good research on this, but how
> about a citation for this?
>
> >> >No, it's not. The drinking companion who shot Edward Benavides in the
> >> >bar confessed, he was convicted of manslaughter, and he was sent to
> >> >prison.
Charles Roberts, "The Truth About the Assassination", Grosset &
Dunlap, 1967, p. 96. Copies available at Milwaukee Public Library* and
Wisconsin Historical Society Library.
* Central Storage Tier3 Ref
973.922 R643 REFERENCE USE
LIB USE ONLY
dcwi...@yahoo.com
And his 11/22/63 affidavit is still among the missing....
yeuhd
Do we know for a fact that Domingo Benavides gave an affidavit on
November 22, 1963? There is no mention of an affidavit in his WC
testimony.
dcwi...@yahoo.com
True, he testified that they didn't take him to the police station
(p452), but Det. Leavelle was of at least two minds on the matter. In
his WC testimony, he said, "I do not believe that we ever took an
affidavit off him that I recall--may have". (p263) He was more
forthright in his 11/22 report: He writes about Markham, Guinyard,
Benavides, Callaway & Scoggins, & then adds, "All of the above
witnesses, except Scoggins, made affidavits". (With Malice p449) And
back in '98, "Amethyst" (on alt. conspiracy. jfk) said that Benavides
once told him that he did go downtown the 22nd. I believe the item
closest to the incident--the Leavelle report--is probably the correct
one....
dw