Previously unknown original motorcade photos discovered under bridge in Fort Worth
Peter Fokes
FORT WORTH - A treasure trove of priceless photographs were recently
found dumped under a bridge in South Fort Worth.
Among the found photographs were images of President John F. Kennedy's
motorcade just moments before his assassination, a young President
George H. W. Bush and Gwendolyn Brooks, the first African American to
win a Pulitzer Prize.
The photographs were found underneath Interstate 20 and Oak Grove in
South Fort Worth by the Code Compliance iIllegal dumping team. The
location is a well-known dumping ground monitored by the department.
....
The Kennedy motorcade photograph was taken 46 years ago. The original
photograph of Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963 captured onlookers
turning in an attempt to get a glimpse of the motorcade.
<quote off>
For full article, see here:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/Historic-Photographs-Found-Dumped-Under-FW-Bridge-71183872.html
Regards,
Peter Fokes,
Toronto
Peter Fokes
wrote:
It seems there is just one motorcade photo. The corner of the TSBD is
visible, and regular traffic is still flowing along Elm, but the crowd
has started to gather.
PF
Peter Fokes
mmm ...
nobody sitting on the curb yet..
is that the umbrella man I see?
Babushka Lady? Jean Hill?
Anyone in the sniper window?
What time is it anyway?
Enough to keep the keen eyed going for a century!
lol
Regards,
Peter Fokes,
Toronto
The Dutchman
>
> Regards,
> Peter Fokes,
> Toronto
That's cool as Hell. Great shot of the TSBD. Couldn't see LHO, though! The
clock on top seemed to read 12:19. Maybe that still is worth being
analyzed, since it shows a good portion of the TSBD apparently 11 minutes
before the fatal moment. Watching the video makes me think more evidence
could crop up any time in the form of home movies, etc. Hope springs
eternal, (even if you're a Phillies fan!)
Glenn Sarlitto
Peter,
Thanks for Posting this link.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/Historic-Photographs-Found-Dumped-Under-FW-Bridge-71183872.html
Methinks that you are jumping the gun, pardon the pun, just a tad.
Get your Pics of Pain out and do some REMOTE SENSING.
Look at Page 392 and Cancellares famous photo....
"Dewey Defeats Truman"
Methinks that TV station reported it wrong regarding the discovered
photo.
Look at the online video at -1:21.
Compare to Pics of Pain pages 285 (Bronson Photo), 304 (Bronson Photo
Enlarged)...these are Just Moments Before
Compare to Pics of Pain pages 332 (Cabluck Photo), 402 (Grant Photo),
403 (Rickerby Photos)...these are Just Moments After
They don't match the discoverd photo.
Do you like to play Texas Holdem ?...It's really to early to call, but
I'm all-in that
the photo is Much Later, if that day at all. Will post/discuss more on
this later why the
"if that day at all". Reminds me of Casey Jones Wreck Photos
Controversy.
Methinks if 11/22/63......its 2:19 and not 12:19 as Dutchman posted.
(Durtchman's post helped me decide here whether last digit on clock is
an 8 or 9.)
Getting back to TV video at 1:21....
Methinks, if 11/22/63....people are already placing Memorials on the
Grassy Knoll.
FORE!
Glenn
PS....I know its a flaw in the photo but,
Is Jim Marrs still into UFOs?
Take a look at the upper righthand corner of that discovered photo.
Should we be looking forward to a Jim Marrs
ALIEN CROSSFIRE ?
PSS...On a serious note, I sure hope Gary Mack gets a chance to
analyze the photo.
.
PSSS....This is a great find and could be fun analyzing further.
I totally agree with Dutchman in that this is COOL as HELL.
Peter Fokes
wrote:
>On Nov 24, 10:14�pm, Peter Fokes <pfo...@rogers.com> wrote:
>> <quote on>
>>
>> FORT WORTH - A treasure trove of priceless photographs were recently
>> found dumped under a bridge in South Fort Worth.
>>
>> Among the found photographs were images of President John F. Kennedy's
>> motorcade just moments before his assassination, a young President
>> George H. W. Bush and Gwendolyn Brooks, the first African American to
>> win a Pulitzer Prize.
>>
>> The photographs were found underneath Interstate 20 and Oak Grove in
>> South Fort Worth by the Code Compliance iIllegal dumping team. �The
>> location is a well-known dumping ground monitored by the department.
>>
>> ....
>>
>> The Kennedy motorcade photograph was taken 46 years ago. The original
>> photograph of Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963 captured onlookers
>> turning in an attempt to get a glimpse of the motorcade.
>>
>> <quote off>
>>
>> For full article, see here:
>>
>> http://www.wfaa.com/news/Historic-Photographs-Found-Dumped-Under-FW-B...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Peter Fokes,
>> Toronto
>
>That's cool as Hell. Great shot of the TSBD. Couldn't see LHO, though! The
>clock on top seemed to read 12:19.
The sens station has updated its information. The photo was taken the
DAY AFTER the assassination. See:
Maybe that still is worth being
>analyzed, since it shows a good portion of the TSBD apparently 11 minutes
>before the fatal moment. Watching the video makes me think more evidence
>could crop up any time in the form of home movies, etc. Hope springs
>eternal, (even if you're a Phillies fan!)
or a Toronto Maple Leafs fan.
Regards,
Peter Fokes,
Toronto
Peter Fokes
wrote:
>On Nov 24, 9:58�pm, Peter Fokes <pfo...@rogers.com> wrote:
>> http://www.toronto.hm/dpfound.jpg
>>
>> mmm ...
>>
>> nobody sitting on the curb yet..
>>
>> is that the umbrella man I see?
>>
>> Babushka Lady? �Jean Hill?
>>
>> Anyone in the sniper window?
>>
>> What time is it anyway?
>>
>> Enough to keep the keen eyed going for a century!
>>
>> lol
>>
>> Regards,
>> Peter Fokes,
>> Toronto
>
>Peter,
>
>Thanks for Posting this link.
>
>http://www.wfaa.com/news/Historic-Photographs-Found-Dumped-Under-FW-Bridge-71183872.html
>
>
>Methinks that you are jumping the gun, pardon the pun, just a tad.
Nope, just passing on a link from a news station. They corrected their
story the next day. See the updated link here:
Regards,
Peter Fokes,
Toronto
Peter Fokes
wrote:
>On 25 Nov 2009 12:59:03 -0500, Glenn Sarlitto <gsar...@wi.rr.com>
See
http://www.toronto.hm/dpfound.html
Don't you see those panic striken eyes peering out from the manhole
opening!
Someone is stuck!
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Peter Fokes,
>Toronto
PF
Robert Harris
They claim at the WFAA website that the DP photo was taken on 11/24,
which I don't think is true. Sounds like they've been talking to Mack.
Robert Harris
In article <u18pg5t41mbb0lkof...@4ax.com>,
Robert Harris
LOL!! Yes, it was indeed, Mack who told them the photo was taken on 11/23.
"One photograph of the Dealey Plaza was taken just one day after President
John F. Kennedy's assassination, according to the curator at the Sixth
Floor Museum. The curator said that is evident by the closed windows at
the School Book Depository. "
Robert Harris
In article <u18pg5t41mbb0lkof...@4ax.com>,
Peter Fokes <pfo...@rogers.com> wrote:
> <quote on>
>
> FORT WORTH - A treasure trove of priceless photographs were recently
> found dumped under a bridge in South Fort Worth.
>
> Among the found photographs were images of President John F. Kennedy's
> motorcade just moments before his assassination, a young President
> George H. W. Bush and Gwendolyn Brooks, the first African American to
> win a Pulitzer Prize.
>
> The photographs were found underneath Interstate 20 and Oak Grove in
> South Fort Worth by the Code Compliance iIllegal dumping team. The
> location is a well-known dumping ground monitored by the department.
>
> ....
>
> The Kennedy motorcade photograph was taken 46 years ago. The original
> photograph of Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963 captured onlookers
> turning in an attempt to get a glimpse of the motorcade.
>
> <quote off>
>
> For full article, see here:
>
WBurg...@aol.com
> LOL!! Yes, it was indeed, Mack who told them the photo was taken on 11/23.
>
> "One photograph of the Dealey Plaza was taken just one day after President
> John F. Kennedy's assassination, according to the curator at the Sixth
> Floor Museum. The curator said that is evident by the closed windows at
> the School Book Depository. "
>
> Robert Harris
>
> Peter Fokes <pfo...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <quote on>
>
> > FORT WORTH - A treasure trove of priceless photographs were recently
> > found dumped under a bridge in South Fort Worth.
>
> > Among the found photographs were images of President John F. Kennedy's
> > motorcade just moments before his assassination, a young President
> > George H. W. Bush and Gwendolyn Brooks, the first African American to
> > win a Pulitzer Prize.
>
> > The photographs were found underneath Interstate 20 and Oak Grove in
> > South Fort Worth by the Code Compliance iIllegal dumping team. The
> > location is a well-known dumping ground monitored by the department.
>
> > ....
>
> > The Kennedy motorcade photograph was taken 46 years ago. The original
> > photograph of Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963 captured onlookers
> > turning in an attempt to get a glimpse of the motorcade.
>
> > <quote off>
>
> > For full article, see here:
>
> > 83872.html
>
> > Regards,
> > Peter Fokes,
> > Toronto- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
It seems this is a joke.
Anyone feel differently???
Burgundy
Anthony Marsh
Thanks for the update.
One photograph of the Dealey Plaza was taken just one day after President
John F. Kennedy's assassination, according to the curator at the Sixth
Floor Museum. The curator said that is evident by the closed windows at
the School Book Depository.
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong photo, but I can't even see ALL the windows
of the TSBD to notice if they are open or closed. But it does appear to be
about noon the next day. Surely in Pictures of the Pain there should be
some photos taken the next day to compare individual people, like the
little kid in the jacket.
>
> Regards,
> Peter Fokes,
> Toronto
>
Sandy McCroskey
> They claim at the WFAA website that the DP photo was taken on 11/24,
> which I don't think is true. Sounds like they've been talking to Mack.
>
On what grounds do you not think the photo was taken on the day Mack
said it was, after the assassination?
Thanks,
Sandy
> Robert Harris
>
> In article <u18pg5t41mbb0lkof20uttkiogljj12...@4ax.com>,
> Peter Fokes <pfo...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> > <quote on>
>
> > FORT WORTH - A treasure trove of priceless photographs were recently
> > found dumped under a bridge in South Fort Worth.
>
> > Among the found photographs were images of President John F. Kennedy's
> > motorcade just moments before his assassination, a young President
> > George H. W. Bush and Gwendolyn Brooks, the first African American to
> > win a Pulitzer Prize.
>
> > The photographs were found underneath Interstate 20 and Oak Grove in
> > South Fort Worth by the Code Compliance iIllegal dumping team. The
> > location is a well-known dumping ground monitored by the department.
>
> > ....
>
> > The Kennedy motorcade photograph was taken 46 years ago. The original
> > photograph of Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963 captured onlookers
> > turning in an attempt to get a glimpse of the motorcade.
>
> > <quote off>
>
> > For full article, see here:
>
> >http://www.wfaa.com/news/Historic-Photographs-Found-Dumped-Under-FW-B...
jas
> On Nov 25, 5:20 pm, Robert Harris <reharr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "One photograph of the Dealey Plaza was taken just one day after President
> > John F. Kennedy's assassination, according to the curator at the Sixth
> > Floor Museum. The curator said that is evident by the closed windows at
> > the School Book Depository. "
>
>
> > In article <u18pg5t41mbb0lkof20uttkiogljj12...@4ax.com>,
> > Peter Fokes <pfo...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> > > <quote on>
>
> > > FORT WORTH - A treasure trove of priceless photographs were recently
> > > found dumped under a bridge in South Fort Worth.
>
> > > Among the found photographs were images of President John F. Kennedy's
> > > motorcade just moments before his assassination, a young President
> > > George H. W. Bush and Gwendolyn Brooks, the first African American to
> > > win a Pulitzer Prize.
>
> > > The photographs were found underneath Interstate 20 and Oak Grove in
> > > South Fort Worth by the Code Compliance iIllegal dumping team. The
> > > location is a well-known dumping ground monitored by the department.
>
> > > ....
>
> > > The Kennedy motorcade photograph was taken 46 years ago. The original
> > > photograph of Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963 captured onlookers
> > > turning in an attempt to get a glimpse of the motorcade.
>
> > > <quote off>
>
> > > For full article, see here:
>
> > >http://www.wfaa.com/news/Historic-Photographs-Found-Dumped-Under-FW-B...
> > > 83872.html
>
> > > Regards,
> > > Peter Fokes,
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> It seems this is a joke.
>
> Anyone feel differently???
>
> Burgundy
I thought the same thing. Why would someone just toss out historic
photos? Why not at least donate them to JFK research, or maybe the
National Archives-- let them decide what to do with them.
robert harris
<a979779b-765f-48ea...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
WBurg...@aol.com wrote:
No, it looks legit. There's more about it at the WFAA website.
Robert Harris
>
> Burgundy
ShutterBun
was full of flowers and memorials by then, none of which appear here.
My theory: it was taken later in the afternoon from the area of the
Triple Underpass with a wide-angle lens.
To wit:
1. The Hertz sign appears to read soemthing like "2:15" or somesuch
2. The shadows are certainly not consistent with 12:30 pm (see below)
3. No flowers apparent in Dealey Plaza, per above
4. WAY more people on the infield than were known to be there at the
time of the assassination
5. Streets appear to be open to traffic, which would not have been the
case "shortly before the assassination" (though this doesn't preclude
Mack's theory)
6. Too many people appear to be "looking in speculation" than there
would have been on the 23rd or 24th. Just a gut feeling, but it seems
to be that by the next day, the people there would have had more
"purpose." This crowd appears to have all the earmarks of "late to
the scene lookie-loos"
7. As far as the shadows and camera go, here's my own half-assed
interpretation. Check out this overlay of the Altgens photo; a
quickie job, but at least gives some context. Notice how the shadows
in the "new" photo converge at the center (i.e. a wide-angle, later
afternoon shot) vs. the Altgens shadows. Also notice the peculiar
"half circle" shape at the bottom of the "new" photo, suggesting it
was taken on, perhaps, a curb at the Triple Underpass.
At any rate, here's my cheesy comparison: http://yfrog.com/08altcomparej
jas
Nice job. Yes, you're right. The sun is moved further west in the
found photo, so it's later than the time of the assassination.
And there are lots more people in the found photo than when at the
assassination, as you mentioned.
David Von Pein
The TSBD clock reads 2:09.
IMO, that photo was taken on Nov. 22 at 2:09 PM.
Peter Fokes
wrote:
>
>The TSBD clock reads 2:09.
>
>IMO, that photo was taken on Nov. 22 at 2:09 PM.
Interesting observation.
Isn't that about the time the tramps were escourted out of hiding and
crossed Elm onto Houston.
No wonder everyone is looking in that direction!
hehe ....
Regards,
Peter Fokes,
Toronto
Anthony Marsh
> I'd be surprised if this were taken on the 23rd or 24th, as the area
> was full of flowers and memorials by then, none of which appear here.
>
> My theory: it was taken later in the afternoon from the area of the
> Triple Underpass with a wide-angle lens.
>
> To wit:
>
> 1. The Hertz sign appears to read soemthing like "2:15" or somesuch
>
Maybe 2:07?
> 2. The shadows are certainly not consistent with 12:30 pm (see below)
>
> 3. No flowers apparent in Dealey Plaza, per above
>
That early, but the angle really cuts off the area where most of the
flowers were placed.
> 4. WAY more people on the infield than were known to be there at the
> time of the assassination
>
In fact, we can start to recognize some of them. I think there are some
corresponding photos taken from the grassy knoll showing exactly the same
people congregating. Especially those trying to point out the Babushka
Lady. They might only be in the book Cover-Up.
> 5. Streets appear to be open to traffic, which would not have been the
> case "shortly before the assassination" (though this doesn't preclude
> Mack's theory)
>
Depends on what you mean by "shortly." It was open to traffic early in the
morning, but then the shadows would not be consistent. I think this photo
definitely needs some shadow analysis.
> 6. Too many people appear to be "looking in speculation" than there
> would have been on the 23rd or 24th. Just a gut feeling, but it seems
> to be that by the next day, the people there would have had more
> "purpose." This crowd appears to have all the earmarks of "late to
> the scene lookie-loos"
>
> 7. As far as the shadows and camera go, here's my own half-assed
> interpretation. Check out this overlay of the Altgens photo; a
> quickie job, but at least gives some context. Notice how the shadows
> in the "new" photo converge at the center (i.e. a wide-angle, later
> afternoon shot) vs. the Altgens shadows. Also notice the peculiar
> "half circle" shape at the bottom of the "new" photo, suggesting it
> was taken on, perhaps, a curb at the Triple Underpass.
>
> At any rate, here's my cheesy comparison: http://yfrog.com/08altcomparej
>
I don't care how cheesy it is, at least you tried to do something. Thanks.
Anthony Marsh
> On 26 Nov 2009 19:19:25 -0500, David Von Pein<davev...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The TSBD clock reads 2:09.
>>
>> IMO, that photo was taken on Nov. 22 at 2:09 PM.
>
> Interesting observation.
>
> Isn't that about the time the tramps were escourted out of hiding and
> crossed Elm onto Houston.
>
I don't think that was the exact time.
> No wonder everyone is looking in that direction!
>
I don't think people that far away are seeing the tramps.
Peter Fokes
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
I'm kidding, Tony.
Weren't the tramps arrested around 4 pm?
>
>> hehe ....
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Peter Fokes,
>> Toronto
PF
>
ShutterBun
> I don't care how cheesy it is, at least you tried to do something. Thanks.
I'm betting there are few people who have been around Newsgroups long
enough to get it, but:
"That's going in my .sig file!"
Thanks, Tony. I am surely making a name for myself with half-assed,
poorly researched photo analyses, but yes, I am TRYING TO DO SOMETHING.
I've been a "consumer" of JFK assasination info long enough. I lack the
means, ability, or general wherewithall to do serious investigation, but
if I can fire up my Photoshop or 3D modeling programs to answer a
question, dammit, I'm gonna do it!
That kinda cuts to the heart of it, for me, anyway. None of us are gonna
"solve" the case. But if my skills (photography, 3D modelling) can
contribute in some way, I am glad to be a part of the process. I know
that you yourself were an early proponent of using computer
modeling/mapping in the ongoing forensic analysis of all of this, so I'm
sure you can appreciate that I'm just trying, in my own limited way, to
make that come true.
Anthony Marsh
> On Nov 26, 5:53 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't care how cheesy it is, at least you tried to do something. Thanks.
>
>
> I'm betting there are few people who have been around Newsgroups long
> enough to get it, but:
> "That's going in my .sig file!"
>
> Thanks, Tony. I am surely making a name for myself with half-assed,
> poorly researched photo analyses, but yes, I am TRYING TO DO SOMETHING.
> I've been a "consumer" of JFK assasination info long enough. I lack the
> means, ability, or general wherewithall to do serious investigation, but
> if I can fire up my Photoshop or 3D modeling programs to answer a
> question, dammit, I'm gonna do it!
>
There are a ton of projects I can suggest that you could do. For example a
simple one you could do over the weekend. Take the autopsy photos of the
back and superimpose one of them on the Dale Myers diagram of the back to
show how he moved the back wound up.
> That kinda cuts to the heart of it, for me, anyway. None of us are gonna
> "solve" the case. But if my skills (photography, 3D modelling) can
> contribute in some way, I am glad to be a part of the process. I know
> that you yourself were an early proponent of using computer
> modeling/mapping in the ongoing forensic analysis of all of this, so I'm
> sure you can appreciate that I'm just trying, in my own limited way, to
> make that come true.
>
I don't care how limited it is, every single person can contribute
something to help analyze this case.
Anthony Marsh
I don't think it was that late given the shadows.
Glenn Sarlitto
> On 25 Nov 2009 12:59:03 -0500, Glenn Sarlitto <gsarli...@wi.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Nov 24, 9:58 pm, Peter Fokes <pfo...@rogers.com> wrote:
> >>http://www.toronto.hm/dpfound.jpg
>
> >> mmm ...
>
> >> nobody sitting on the curb yet..
>
> >> is that the umbrella man I see?
>
> >> Babushka Lady? Jean Hill?
>
> >> Anyone in the sniper window?
>
> >> What time is it anyway?
>
> >> Enough to keep the keen eyed going for a century!
>
> >> lol
>
> >> Regards,
> >> Peter Fokes,
> >> Toronto
>
> >Peter,
>
> >Thanks for Posting this link.
>
>
> >Methinks that you are jumping the gun, pardon the pun, just a tad.
>
> Nope, just passing on a link from a news station. They corrected their
> story the next day. See the updated link here:
>
>
> Regards,
> Peter Fokes,
> Toronto- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Peter,
You posted regarding the discovered photo.
>> It seems there is just one motorcade photo. The corner of the TSBD is
visible, and regular traffic is still flowing along Elm, but the crowd has
started to gather.<<
Your response was "Nope" to my "methinks you are jumping the gun."
That's called Jumping the Gun Denial.
Nothing wrong with Jumping the Gun, Peter.
Its a damn good song & video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulde-bRijvU&feature=related
The Beatles & a few others influenced the band, per Tim Christensen.
Jump The Gun - Lyrics
No one in here is a liar
Everybody is telling you the truth
But someone in here is a denier
I just really wanted it to be you
(Oh) As no one really wants to be
Dealing with a misery
No they only wanna jump the gun
No one in here is a stranger
Everybody knows who you are (Oh, knows who you are)
But someone in here is in danger, yeah
Someone so close and yet so far away
No one really wants to be
Dealing with a misery
Hang out with your sympathy
No they only wanna jump the gun
Oh, yeah, oh
(Oh, knows who you are)
Yeah, no one really wants to be
Dealing with a misery
Hang out with your sympathy
No they only wanna jump the gun
No one really wants to be
Dealing with a misery
Hang out with your sympathy
Bringing out the worst in me
No they only want
They only want
No they only want
Ah, they only wanna jump the gun
Peter Fokes
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>On 11/27/2009 11:50 AM, Peter Fokes wrote:
>> On 27 Nov 2009 11:31:46 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/26/2009 7:46 PM, Peter Fokes wrote:
>>>> On 26 Nov 2009 19:19:25 -0500, David Von Pein<davev...@aol.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The TSBD clock reads 2:09.
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO, that photo was taken on Nov. 22 at 2:09 PM.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting observation.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't that about the time the tramps were escourted out of hiding and
>>>> crossed Elm onto Houston.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think that was the exact time.
>>>
>>>> No wonder everyone is looking in that direction!
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think people that far away are seeing the tramps.
>>
>> I'm kidding, Tony.
>>
>> Weren't the tramps arrested around 4 pm?
>>
>
>I don't think it was that late given the shadows.
So you are talking about the tramp photos and not this photo.
Ok
PF