Girl in Blue

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laughpr...@aol.com

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Apr 16, 2012, 4:29:27 PM4/16/12
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I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
came across this site.

For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the corner
of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.

And as hard as it is for folks to believe it, one little jerk fired from
the window and got off a couple of lucky shots. An idiot killed Kennedy.
One idiot who had a huge fight with his wife that morning.

I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness, but
no conspiracy.

Toni

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 16, 2012, 7:04:07 PM4/16/12
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On 4/16/2012 4:29 PM, laughpr...@aol.com wrote:
> I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
> came across this site.
>
> For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the corner
> of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
> Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.
>

If you really are the girl, there is a dispute about how old you were on
11/22/63. I estimated your age at 13, but Gary Mack claims you were a high
school girl.


> And as hard as it is for folks to believe it, one little jerk fired from
> the window and got off a couple of lucky shots. An idiot killed Kennedy.
> One idiot who had a huge fight with his wife that morning.
>
> I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness, but
> no conspiracy.
>

How could you tell there was no conspiracy?
BTW, the position of the little girl on that column prevents Amos Euins
from seeing the sniper in the window.

> Toni


pjsp...@aol.com

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Apr 16, 2012, 7:04:50 PM4/16/12
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O.K. So give us the details. What's your name, what did you see, and
how did your observations convince you there was no conspiracy?

claviger

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Apr 16, 2012, 9:10:55 PM4/16/12
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Toni,

You say a couple of lucky shots. Do you mean literally, as in 2 shots?
How many shots did you hear that awful day? Why are you sure there was no
conspiracy?

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 16, 2012, 10:14:22 PM4/16/12
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I assume that she means that the third shot missed. Did you tell her about
the Secret Service agent shooting the President in the head? Maybe that's
why you think Oswald missed. Only one shot to the head and you think THAT
shot came from the Secret Service agent so that would be why Oswald missed
for your theory.

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 16, 2012, 11:19:45 PM4/16/12
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I can't prove it, but I think she is the person who identified herself
to Gary Mack as the girl on the pedestal.
I'll have to double check, but as I remember it Gary Mack said she was a
high school student then.


Dave Reitzes

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Apr 17, 2012, 12:04:42 AM4/17/12
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At least a few of us here agree with you. What are you planning to do
with your memoir?

Dave

Research

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Apr 17, 2012, 11:38:42 AM4/17/12
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"claviger" <histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:725e7fd7-f1cd-461a...@h9g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 16, 3:29 pm, laughproffes...@aol.com wrote:
> I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
> came across this site.
>
> For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the corner
> of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
> Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.

> I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness, but
> no conspiracy.

You say a couple of lucky shots. Do you mean literally, as in 2 shots?

Jean Hill started that way. She and Mooreman claimed two shots. And before
it was all said they were up to 4 to 6.
And where is the proof of her standing on the wall? If she was standing
where she claims, she would be blocking the view of another more important
eyewitness. Amos Euins claims to have been standing directly behind the wall
where he claims to see Oswald shooting from the dep.




markusp

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Apr 17, 2012, 2:37:49 PM4/17/12
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Toni, you should understand that in speaking only for myself, I find it
amazing that you keep quiet for how many years (?), and then post here
claiming matter of factly that there was no conspiracy because you saw a
"panoramic" view...of what? Your name at the top of the posting says,
"unknown". Did you see "one little jerk"? Clearly, your memory is keen. I
hope you can provide many more details. Maybe you should make a statement
and have it notarized.

Because your claim of a panoramic view leads you to state unequivocally
that there was no conspiracy, I would like to know what you saw, and how
you can then use that visual memory to determine lack of confederates.
Your information should be quite definitive, and perhaps Dr. McAdams can
simply shut down this discussion group because you've finally decided to
come forward.

~Mark

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 17, 2012, 2:39:56 PM4/17/12
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On 4/17/2012 11:38 AM, Research wrote:
> "claviger"<histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:725e7fd7-f1cd-461a...@h9g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 16, 3:29 pm, laughproffes...@aol.com wrote:
>> I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
>> came across this site.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the corner
>> of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
>> Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.
>
>> I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness, but
>> no conspiracy.
>
> You say a couple of lucky shots. Do you mean literally, as in 2 shots?
>
> Jean Hill started that way. She and Mooreman claimed two shots. And before
> it was all said they were up to 4 to 6.

Can you play for me that interview from that afternoon where they both
said they heard two and exact two shot? No, I didn't think so. It's more
fun for you to make up stuff.
Please cite and quote for me when they were both up to 4 to 6 shots.

> And where is the proof of her standing on the wall? If she was standing
> where she claims, she would be blocking the view of another more important
> eyewitness. Amos Euins claims to have been standing directly behind the wall
> where he claims to see Oswald shooting from the dep.
>
>
>
>

Well, don't look for evidence here. McAdams doesn't allow pictures to be
displayed here so that people can prove their points.
From the restored Bell film:

http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/BellAnimation2-1.gif

IMHO the girl in blue atop the pedestal is too tall for an eleven year old.
Amos Euins could not see the sniper's window through her.


Bud

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Apr 17, 2012, 11:29:29 PM4/17/12
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On Apr 17, 2:39 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/17/2012 11:38 AM, Research wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "claviger"<historiae.fi...@gmail.com>  wrote in message
Or through the concrete see was standing on. But that doesn`t mean
that Euins could not have seen what he said he saw.

Don Roberdeau

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Apr 17, 2012, 11:40:25 PM4/17/12
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On Apr 16, 4:29 pm, laughproffes...@aol.com wrote:
.... Good Day.... FYI....

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,5834.0.html
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/wesriddle/7vjawu7gh2zq.gif
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7076/bellseq3lostjfktapes000.png
http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/D-122.jpg


Best Regards in Research,

Don


Donald Roberdeau
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

For your considerations....

Homepage: President KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and
Assassination Evidence,Witnesses, Suspects + Outstanding
Researchers Discoveries and Considerations....
http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html


Dealey Plaza Map Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise locations,
Evidence, Witnesses, Films & Photos, Suspected bullet trajectories,
Important information & Key Considerations, in One Convenient
Resource.... http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2192/dpupdated110110.gif


Visual Report: "The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While
JFK was Still Hidden Under the 'Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree' "....
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2446/206cropjfk1102308ms8.gif


Visual Report: Reality versus C.A.D. :
the Real World, versus, Garbage-In, Garbage-Out....
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8543/realityvscad.gif


Discovery: "Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS
Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Head Snap: West, Ultrafast, and
Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll"....
http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html

T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore


For the United States:

http://www.nationalterroralert.com/advisory7regional.gif

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/




Anthony Marsh

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Apr 18, 2012, 9:44:15 AM4/18/12
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It means exactly that. It proves that he did not see what he claimed.

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 18, 2012, 9:44:56 AM4/18/12
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On 4/16/2012 7:04 PM, pjsp...@AOL.COM wrote:
Here is what Gary Mack reported that she said:

Hi Gerda,

Her name was Toni Glover, she was 11 years old and she did not know who
the other girl was. Toni did an oral history for The Sixth Floor Museum
in 1999, though a transcript has not yet been made. She thought two
shots were fired and she's recently returned to the Museum's Reading
Room to do research for some project.

Gary


Research

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Apr 18, 2012, 11:44:45 AM4/18/12
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"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:8ade6601-aa59-4d71...@fo16g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Oh yeah. Now we can believe the word of an eyewitness. But when it comes to
Newman, you LNers claim you can't trust the words of eyewitnesses. Even when
there is overwhelming eyewitnessings. But yet when the witnesses make claims
supporting the WCR then its alright.




Ace Kefford

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Apr 18, 2012, 11:46:31 AM4/18/12
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On Apr 17, 2:39 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/17/2012 11:38 AM, Research wrote:
>
>
>
> > "claviger"<historiae.fi...@gmail.com>  wrote in message
I don't quite understand how you can think one person can completely
block a view unless they are inches in front of a person. Even if
that case (if you've ever been at a rock concert in front of the
stage) you can move a little to the side and still be able to see
things.

Why would Euins have lied immediately after the shooting? It's not
like he appeared forty years later or something.

Research

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Apr 18, 2012, 11:46:36 AM4/18/12
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"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4f8d...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> On 4/17/2012 11:38 AM, Research wrote:
>> "claviger"<histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:725e7fd7-f1cd-461a...@h9g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 16, 3:29 pm, laughproffes...@aol.com wrote:
>>> I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
>>> came across this site.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the
>>> corner
>>> of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
>>> Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.
>>
>>> I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness,
>>> but
>>> no conspiracy.
>>
>> You say a couple of lucky shots. Do you mean literally, as in 2 shots?
>>
>> Jean Hill started that way. She and Mooreman claimed two shots. And
>> before
>> it was all said they were up to 4 to 6.
>
> Can you play for me that interview from that afternoon where they both
> said they heard two and exact two shot? No, I didn't think so. It's more
> fun for you to make up stuff.
> Please cite and quote for me when they were both up to 4 to 6 shots.

NBC Today did a report about it. They showed a '63 tape where they were
interviewed just after the assassination when they both said they heard two
shots. Moorman has been rather quite over the last fifty years. It was the
last defending witness who has made claims of hearing 4 to 6 shots. Whatever
creditably you add is yours.
If you want any answers as to Moorman's current position. GOOGLE it. Like
you told me, "do your own research!"
I know you think you're a big deal. In your own mind anyway, But nobody has
to circum to your demands.

>> And where is the proof of her standing on the wall? If she was standing
>> where she claims, she would be blocking the view of another more
>> important
>> eyewitness. Amos Euins claims to have been standing directly behind the
>> wall
>> where he claims to see Oswald shooting from the dep.

Just where is Amos Enius is a better question; in the Bell or Hughes or any
other evidence? I don't see him.




Ken McDonald

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Apr 18, 2012, 11:47:33 AM4/18/12
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"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4f8d...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Your Mark Bell video looks great with the sprocket holes. Would it be
inappropriate to post things like that on alt.binaries.jfkjr.plane.pictures?

>
> IMHO the girl in blue atop the pedestal is too tall for an eleven year
> old.
> Amos Euins could not see the sniper's window through her.
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 7063 (20120417) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7065 (20120418) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com




Robin Unger

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Apr 18, 2012, 11:48:13 AM4/18/12
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Interesting post

FWIW Gary Mack said the girl in blue on the pedestal was Toni Glover

claviger

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Apr 18, 2012, 2:11:54 PM4/18/12
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One thing for sure, she was in an elevated position to see everything.

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 18, 2012, 2:12:06 PM4/18/12
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Nice to see you here. When you look at the girl in blue on the Bell film
does she look like an 11 year old to you? Can you calculate how tall she
is by knowing the height of the pedestal?

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 18, 2012, 2:12:48 PM4/18/12
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Yes. It would be off-topic. Why not post it in alt.fashion.movie-stars?
One reason why people post pictures in alt.binaries.pictures is because
that is what that newsgroup was designed for, general pictures to become
attachments. Also McAdams is so fussy that he doesn't carry all newsgroups
on his server. Wise guys would post pornography there to get him into
trouble. He can't spend every minute of every day sorting through
pornography and checking the censorship laws of every country.

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 18, 2012, 4:59:53 PM4/18/12
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Yes, she and the other girl were inches in front of where Euins said he
was hiding behind the pedestal.

> Why would Euins have lied immediately after the shooting? It's not
> like he appeared forty years later or something.
>

Yes, he did appear 48 years later. So what? Does that automatically make
him a liar?


Anthony Marsh

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Apr 18, 2012, 9:58:39 PM4/18/12
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Correct. Forget about HEARING shots. She could SEE everything and being
on the south side of Elm she could see one bullet hitting both Kennedy
and Connally. So maybe she assumes that there were only two shots.


slats

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Apr 18, 2012, 10:04:13 PM4/18/12
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Just think: she may have been the last teen girl JFK ever leered at.

Ken McDonald

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Apr 18, 2012, 10:04:51 PM4/18/12
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"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4f8f0208$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
I only mentioned the above newsgroup because it's the only one that has
jfk in it. I did go there and it's mostly if not all full of porn. Why
does John have to have anything to do with it? We should have a way to
upload photos or videos. Just thought I would through it out there.

Bud

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Apr 18, 2012, 10:06:42 PM4/18/12
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On Apr 18, 11:44 am, "Research" <questio...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Bud" <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote in message
What are you talking about, I believe Newman when he says he thought
the shots came from behind him.

> Even when
> there is overwhelming eyewitnessings. But yet when the witnesses make claims
> supporting the WCR then its alright.

Let me explain something to you on weighing the witness testimony in
this case. Had someone seen a person shooting from the knoll, another saw
a man with a rifle there and a few others seen a rifle barrel sticking out
there, and rifle shells and a rifle which matched the bullet fragments
found in the limo were found there then the witnesses who indicated the
knoll would be the ones who were right and the ones who indicated the TSBD
would have been dubious. See how that works?

Bud

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Apr 18, 2012, 10:08:13 PM4/18/12
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It means nothing. It`s a meaningless claim.

> It proves that he did not see what he claimed.

Silly. People aren`t statues, they move.

Bud

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Apr 18, 2012, 10:08:56 PM4/18/12
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Do you see anyone hiding behind the pedestal?

http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/BellAnimation2-1.gif

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 19, 2012, 10:39:40 AM4/19/12
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No, especially not where Euins demonstrate crouching down.

Anthony Marsh

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Apr 19, 2012, 10:39:47 AM4/19/12
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He was not where he said he was. That makes him a liar.


Anthony Marsh

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Apr 19, 2012, 10:41:39 AM4/19/12
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On 4/18/2012 10:04 PM, slats wrote:
> Just think: she may have been the last teen girl JFK ever leered at.
>

That was my question, was she a teen or was she a preteen? She says she
was only 11. She looks older.

Robin Unger

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Apr 19, 2012, 10:45:56 AM4/19/12
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Hi Tony

To be honest, i can't really tell her age from the Bell frames, since we only see her from the rear.

But i would have assumed the girl in blue to be a few years older than 11-years


As a comparison we might look at Tina Towner in Dorman
i understand that she was 13 - years old at the time of the assassination.

Robin Unger

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Apr 19, 2012, 10:46:02 AM4/19/12
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Euins placed himself crouching down at the foot of the girl in blue's pedestal


http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj306/quaneeri2/Euins.jpg


If that was actually the case, then we would clearly see him in Bell
crouching down behind the pedestal.

BUT WE DON'T

Research

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Apr 19, 2012, 11:30:41 AM4/19/12
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"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:2c5cfb77-b2d7-418c...@er9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for posting this link. As I viewed the Bell slide, I see a person
standing on the pedestal, wearing a blue sweater or something. The figure
doesn't seem to be a little girl. She must be older than an 11 year old
girl. Even could have been one of those (long-haired hippy types) wearing
short pants and black bobby socks? Even see a man in a trench coat and a
woman behind him. But no Amos Enius. Standing behind the pedestal as he
claimed. So researchers, where is he? Its not that he lied. But more of
evidence that proves he was where he claimed to be. That would prove he
did see Oswald or someone in the assassin window. But like Brenner, his
evidence falls apart under scrunity.

> > Why would Euins have lied immediately after the shooting? It's not
> > like he appeared forty years later or something.
>
> Yes, he did appear 48 years later. So what? Does that automatically make
> him a liar?

Why would he have lied to begin with? So he would seem to be important.
And continues the lie for the same reason. Maybe now its more of a
finanical reason?




claviger

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Apr 19, 2012, 1:41:53 PM4/19/12
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A photo is a snapshot of one moment in time. Euins did not stay in
one place during the shooting:

Mr. EUINS. I was standing here on the comer. And then the President
come around the corner right here. And I was standing here. And I was
waving, because there wasn't hardly no one on the corner right there
but me. I was waving. He looked that way and he waved back at me. And
then I had seen a pipe, you know, up there in the window, I thought it
was a pipe, some kind of pipe.

Mr. EUINS. Then I was standing here, and as the motorcade turned the
corner, I was facing, looking dead at the building. And so I seen this
pipe thing sticking out the window. I wasn't paying too much attention
to it. Then when the first shot was fired, I started looking around,
thinking it was a backfire. Everybody else started looking around.
Then I looked up at the window, and he shot again. So--you know this
fountain bench here, right around here. Well, anyway, there is a
little fountain right here. I got behind this little fountain, and
then he shot again.

Mr. EUINS. After he shot the first two times, I was just standing back
here. And then after he shot again, he pulled the gun back in the
window. And then all the police ran back over here in the track
vicinity.
Mr. SPECTER. Slow down just a little bit in what you are telling us.
When the second shot occurred, were you still standing at the point
where you marked with an "A" on 365?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir. But I was right behind this little--
Mr. SPECTER. Were you a little bit behind of where that "A" is?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; right back here.
Mr. SPECTER. Let's mark that with a "B," where you were at the time
the second shot occurred.
(Witness marking.)

Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Now, when the third shot occurred, Amos, let me ask you again, where
were you looking then?
Mr. EUINS. I was still down here, looking up at the building.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see him pull it back in the window?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And were you still standing at point B?
Mr. EUINS. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. When he pulled it back in the window?
Mr. EUINS. I was still behind here, yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Where were you when you heard what you described as the
fourth shot?
Mr. EUINS. The first shot I was standing here.

Mr. SPECTER. Now you are referring to 366. Put an "L" on 366 where you
were standing at the first shot.
Mr. EUINS. Right here.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. EUINS. And then as I looked up there, you know, he fired another
shot, you know, as I was looking. So I got behind this fountain thing
right in there, at this point B.
Mr. SPECTER. At point B, on 365?
Mr. EUINS. I got behind there. And then I watched, he did fire again.
Then he started looking down towards my way, and then he fired again.
Mr. SPECTER. The question I have for you now is where were you when he
fired on that fourth time.
Mr. EUINS. I was still behind point B.
Mr. SPECTER. You were still at point B when he fired the fourth time?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir. Then he pulled the gun back in the window.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see him pull the gun back in the window after the
fourth shot?
Mr. EUINS. Yes; he just come back like this.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you watch what he did after that?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; because after he had pulled it back in the window,
I ran this way, and went across the tracks.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
You start on Exhibit 365, and put the black mark and show us the path
of where you ran on 365.
Mr. EUINS. I was here at "B."

darby...@aol.com

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Apr 19, 2012, 1:42:44 PM4/19/12
to
On Apr 16, 7:04 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/16/2012 4:29 PM, laughproffes...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
> > came across this site.
>
> > For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the corner
> > of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
> > Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.
>
> If you really are the girl, there is a dispute about how old you were on
> 11/22/63. I estimated your age at 13, but Gary Mack claims you were a high
> school girl.
>
> > And as hard as it is for folks to believe it, one little jerk fired from
> > the window and got off a couple of lucky shots. An idiot killed Kennedy.
> > One idiot who had a huge fight with his wife that morning.
>
> > I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness, but
> > no conspiracy.
>
> How could you tell there was no conspiracy?
> BTW, the position of the little girl on that column prevents Amos Euins
> from seeing the sniper in the window.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Toni

Oh Lordy. I have stepped into it. I knew nothing about this site. It was
late and I searched my name and Kennedy. When John's work showed up I was
stunned and wrote a stupid email. Let's start over.

My name is Toni (Antoinette) Glover. I was born in Dallas, Texas at
Methodist Hospital on February, 14, 1952. (That's right, Valentine's Day)
I lived in Oak Cliff, about 5 minutes from downtown. I was eleven. After a
lot of begging, my mom took me to the parade. We went straight to Dealey
Plaza thinking the end of the parade would have the least people. I don't
remember anyone else there when we arrived. An excited 11 year old, I kept
running back and forth from my "perch" to Main Street looking down it to
see if I could tell the cars were coming. I did this several times. On one
of those trips to Main, a guy had a seizure at Main and Houston. I was
afraid they would divert the parade because of the ambulance. I went back
to my cement block before they turned onto Houston. When the limo passed
he looked up, waved and smiled. Then he turned the corner and a couple of
seconds later, his head exploded. There is a column that blocked my view
for a couple of seconds, but then the car reappeared and bang. From my
perspective, the plume of brains and blood sparkled a little in the Texas
sun. I told my mom someone threw sparklers in the car!!!!

I have no other evidence of any kind about the assassination.

Announcing that Oswald was, "an idiot" and other remarkable statements I
made were at best ill-informed. I am not an historian. I will stick to
telling my experience and let you historians figure out who did what. My
personal belief is that Oswald acted alone. But that's just my opinion. I
didn't see anything like odd individuals, or flashes or anything else that
would make me think otherwise. Loud noises echo in downtown Dallas. I
"think" I heard 2 shots, but I have always qualified that by saying
"everything echoes down there". I'm not sure how anyone can tell where the
shots came from. But many feel otherwise.

I'm happy to answer questions about my life and experience, but drawing
conclusions is above my pay grade. I know I was standing on the cement
block the entire time Kennedy was on Houston and Elm. I have no idea who's
view I blocked. And I'm not sure who is on the block with me. I doubt my
mom would have crawled up that high.

darby...@aol.com

unread,
Apr 19, 2012, 1:43:19 PM4/19/12
to
On Apr 18, 10:04 pm, slats <o...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Just think: she may have been the last teen girl JFK ever leered at.

Wow. No leering. Just a smile and a wave.

Some answers:

At eleven I was 5' 6", had a long pony tail, and I'll go to my grave
before telling anyone what I weighed. The deal I made with my mom was: If
I went to school, she would pick me up at 11:00 and take me to the parade.
That's the only reason I had on a skirt. We had horses and I usually wore
jeans. The sagging knee socks were worn because I was jealous of a new
girl in my class and was trying to copy her.

darby...@aol.com

unread,
Apr 19, 2012, 1:43:42 PM4/19/12
to
On Apr 17, 2:37 pm, markusp <markina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Monday, April 16, 2012 3:29:27 PM UTC-5, (unknown) wrote:
> > I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
> > came across this site.
>
> > For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the corner
> > of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
> > Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.
>
> > And as hard as it is for folks to believe it, one little jerk fired from
> > the window and got off a couple of lucky shots. An idiot killed Kennedy.
> > One idiot who had a huge fight with his wife that morning.
>
> > I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness, but
> > no conspiracy.
>
> > Toni
>
> Toni, you should understand that in speaking only for myself, I find it
> amazing that you keep quiet for how many years (?), and then post here
> claiming matter of factly that there was no conspiracy because you saw a
> "panoramic" view...of what? Your name at the top of the posting says,
> "unknown". Did you see "one little jerk"? Clearly, your memory is keen. I
> hope you can provide many more details. Maybe you should make a statement
> and have it notarized.
>
> Because your claim of a panoramic view leads you to state unequivocally
> that there was no conspiracy, I would like to know what you saw, and how
> you can then use that visual memory to determine lack of confederates.
> Your information should be quite definitive, and perhaps Dr. McAdams can
> simply shut down this discussion group because you've finally decided to
> come forward.
>
> ~Mark

Mark. Sorry if I offended. Many witnesses waited 25-35-40 years to
come forward. Gary would know how many, but it isn't uncommon.

Anthony Marsh

unread,
Apr 19, 2012, 3:29:09 PM4/19/12
to
Excuse me? Did you watch the show The Lost Bullet? Of course not. Then
you don't know what you are talking about as usual. He DEMONSTRATED how
he was crouching down behind that pedestal. He told the WC that is where
he was standing. If he was standing on the curb at Houston Street then
he was not behind the pedestal.
In other words he lied.

>>> Why would Euins have lied immediately after the shooting? It's not
>>> like he appeared forty years later or something.
>>
>> Yes, he did appear 48 years later. So what? Does that automatically make
>> him a liar?
>
> Why would he have lied to begin with? So he would seem to be important.
> And continues the lie for the same reason. Maybe now its more of a
> finanical reason?
>
>

To make himself important. He thought he was the only one who saw that
the shooter was a black man.

>
>


Bud

unread,
Apr 19, 2012, 3:31:16 PM4/19/12
to
So he couldn`t be blocked, could he? Of course people move, they aren`t
statues. At some times he might be able to see things that at different
times he might be able to. This is why making absolute statements about
what he could or couldn`t see is silly.

timstter

unread,
Apr 19, 2012, 6:36:56 PM4/19/12
to
On Apr 18, 1:40 pm, Don Roberdeau <droberd...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 4:29 pm, laughproffes...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
> > came across this site.
>
> > For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the corner
> > of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
> > Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.
>
> > And as hard as it is for folks to believe it, one little jerk fired from
> > the window and got off a couple of lucky shots. An idiot killed Kennedy.
> > One idiot who had a huge fight with his wife that morning.
>
> > I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness, but
> > no conspiracy.
>
> > Toni
>
> .... Good Day.... FYI....
>
> http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,5834.0.htmlhttp://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/wesriddle/7vjawu7gh2zq.gifhttp://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7076/bellseq3lostjfktapes000.pnghttp://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/D-122.jpg
>
> Best  Regards  in  Research,
>
>         Don
>
> Donald  Roberdeau
> U.S.S.  John  F.  Kennedy,  CV-67,  plank  walker
> Sooner,  or  later,  The  Truth  emerges  Clearly
>
> For  your  considerations....
>
> Homepage:  President KENNEDY  "Men  of  Courage"  speech, and
> Assassination Evidence,Witnesses, Suspects + Outstanding
> Researchers Discoveries and Considerations....http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassina...
>
> Dealey  Plaza  Map  Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise  locations,
> Evidence, Witnesses, Films & Photos, Suspected bullet trajectories,
> Important  information &  Key Considerations, in  One  Convenient
> Resource....http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2192/dpupdated110110.gif
>
> Visual Report:  "The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While
> JFK was Still Hidden Under the 'Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree' "....http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2446/206cropjfk1102308ms8.gif
>
> Visual Report:  Reality versus C.A.D. :
> the  Real World,  versus,  Garbage-In, Garbage-Out....http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8543/realityvscad.gif
>
> Discovery:  "Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS
> Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Head Snap: West, Ultrafast, and
> Directly  Towards  the  Grassy  Knoll"....http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassinat...
>
> T  ogether
> E  veryone
> A  chieves
> M  ore
>
>         For the United States:
>
>        http://www.nationalterroralert.com/advisory7regional.gif
>
>        http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/

Hi Don,

Thanks for supplying the interesting images.

Regards,

Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*

timstter

unread,
Apr 19, 2012, 6:37:21 PM4/19/12
to
Hi Toni,

I think you about got it right in your first post.

Oswald wasn't an idiot but he WAS a fanatical Marxist who worshipped
Fidel Castro.

JFK had made a sabre rattling speech in Miami earlier that week,
virtually encouraging a Cuban coup, and it is very likely that Oswald
read of this in the Dallas newspapers.

Oswald was also a very good shot, despite what you hear. He shot a 212
in the USMC to qualify as a Sharpshooter a few years earlier.

Your point about the argument with his wife is a good one. If they'd
reconciled the previous night, he may have dropped his idea of taking
his rifle to work and trying to kill President Kennedy.

Thanks for sharing your memories.

Kind Regards,

Anthony Marsh

unread,
Apr 19, 2012, 10:14:37 PM4/19/12
to
Of course people move. So he lied about where he was standing. I'm not
that interested in what he could see an hour before the shooting or an
hour after the shooting. But he claims that he was crouching down behind
the column during the shooting and the photographic evidence proves he
wasn't. So you you have to become an alterationist and claim the film was
fake. NEVER RELY ON WITNESSES. Get it?

Anthony Marsh

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 12:14:42 AM4/20/12
to
So in the space of 2 seconds Euins goes from standing on the corner and
not seeing the rifle to hiding behind the column and SEEING the last shot.
If Specter knows he is lying is that called suborning perjury?

> Mr. SPECTER. Now you are referring to 366. Put an "L" on 366 where you
> were standing at the first shot.
> Mr. EUINS. Right here.
> (Witness marking.)

Jeez, isn't a good thing that McAdams won't allow you to post WC exhibit
so that people can see for themselves where he was supposed to be?

timstter

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 12:14:55 AM4/20/12
to
You can't determine that from that Bell gif you posted, Marsh.

Bell's camera follows the limo down Elm and that part of the masonry
Toni is standing on disappears from view.

A few less sweeping statements in the debate would be nice, Mr Marsh.

Corrective Regards,

Jean Davison

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 12:16:40 AM4/20/12
to jjdavi...@yahoo.com
On Apr 19, 2:29 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/19/2012 11:30 AM, Research wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bud"<sirsl...@fast.net>  wrote in message
No, he did not lie.

What is it with so many CTs, that they leap right over
"human error" to rush to "he lied"? Who can explain that to me?

Euins told the WC that he was standing on the corner of Elm
and Houston when the shooting started, and that after he heard two
shots, *then* he sought cover by crouching behind the pedestal.

Euins marked his position on CE 365. A is where he was
originally, on the corner across from the TSBD; B is his position
after the second shot:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0493a.htm

Decades later, he remembered it a little differently. There
is nothing unusual about that at all. It's *normal* for memories to
change over time. Look it up, if you don't believe me.

There was no reason for Euins to be behind the pedestal on
the Bell film, when he could get a better view from the corner.

Euins reported what he saw to the police right away and gave
a statement that afternoon. He wasn't a witness-come-lately like so
many others.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/12/1284-001.gif

Jean

Bud

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 10:14:35 AM4/20/12
to
Produce your film of him the whole time so we can see this.

> I'm not
> that interested in what he could see an hour before the shooting or an
> hour after the shooting.

Or even during the shooting, apparently.

> But he claims that he was crouching down behind
> the column during the shooting

I thought I explained this to you already, people move, they aren`t
statues.

> and the photographic evidence proves he
> wasn't.

By all means, produce your photos of Euins throughout the attack.

> So you you have to become an alterationist and claim the film was
> fake.

False dilemma fallacy.

> NEVER RELY ON WITNESSES.

NEVER RELY ON TONY MARSH`S ABSOLUTE ASSERTIONS ABOUT WHAT EUINS
COULD OR COULD NOT SEE.

>Get it?

Got it.

Bud

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 10:14:59 AM4/20/12
to
I think so. CTers generally don`t know how to weigh information. If
they could they wouldn`t be CTers.

>           Euins told the WC that he was standing on the corner of Elm
> and Houston when the shooting started, and that after he heard two
> shots, *then* he sought cover by crouching behind the pedestal.
>
>           Euins marked his position on CE 365.  A is where he was
> originally, on the corner across from the TSBD; B is his position
> after the second shot:
>
>  http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol...

Look Tony, Jean managed to produce this evidence. You claimed .John
was preventing you from doing so. Why do you think there are forces
working against you?

Robin Unger

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 10:15:28 AM4/20/12
to
Hi Toni

Thanks for the information you have kindly shared with us.

Would you have a photo of yourself which you would be willing to share !


Cheers.

Robin Unger

My assassination image galleries.
which include many images of yourself standing on the pedestal ( Bell, Hughes )galleries

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/

claviger

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 12:38:06 PM4/20/12
to
Anthony,

> So in the space of 2 seconds Euins goes from standing on the corner and
> not seeing the rifle to hiding behind the column and SEEING the last shot.
The shooting took 10 seconds and yes someone can change position in
that time span, especially when scared.


Anthony Marsh

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 2:03:31 PM4/20/12
to
That's the whole God Damned point! There is no film of him the whole
time. The film shows he was not there.

>> I'm not
>> that interested in what he could see an hour before the shooting or an
>> hour after the shooting.
>
> Or even during the shooting, apparently.
>

I am very interested in what he could or could not see during the
shooting. And the film evidence proves that he was lying.

>> But he claims that he was crouching down behind
>> the column during the shooting
>
> I thought I explained this to you already, people move, they aren`t
> statues.
>

Simplistic. The little girl did not move. If Euins was really crouched
down behind the pedestal as he said then he could NOT have seen the
sniper's nest.

>> and the photographic evidence proves he
>> wasn't.
>
> By all means, produce your photos of Euins throughout the attack.
>

That's my point. They don't exist because he wasn't where he said he was.

Anthony Marsh

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 2:04:47 PM4/20/12
to
Have you watched the show The Lost Bullet? Of course not, because you
were afraid that it might be a conspiracy show. So you don't even know
what Euins said in that show. So don't don't pretend to defend Euins
when you don't even know what he said?

> What is it with so many CTs, that they leap right over
> "human error" to rush to "he lied"? Who can explain that to me?
>
> Euins told the WC that he was standing on the corner of Elm
> and Houston when the shooting started, and that after he heard two
> shots, *then* he sought cover by crouching behind the pedestal.
>

The little girl was still there like a statue on the pedestal. If Euins
had crouched down behind the pedestal as he said and you allege, then he
could not have seen the third shot.

> Euins marked his position on CE 365. A is where he was
> originally, on the corner across from the TSBD; B is his position
> after the second shot:
>

That should have been uploaded by the original poster when citing the
Euins testimony so that people could see it in context.

> http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0493a.htm
>

Not that helpful. It doesn't show exactly where Euins was standing. And
the resolution is so bad that most people can not tell the difference
between the A and the B.

> Decades later, he remembered it a little differently. There
> is nothing unusual about that at all. It's *normal* for memories to
> change over time. Look it up, if you don't believe me.
>

And memories can be changed by outside influences. Look up Elizabeth Loftus.

> There was no reason for Euins to be behind the pedestal on
> the Bell film, when he could get a better view from the corner.
>

The Bell film is not the only one and I did not use it to show where Euins
was. If he was where he said he was he should be seen on the Dorman film.
But YOU can't show Euins on the Dorman film. I didn't say that Euins
started at the pedestal. He said he started at the corner and ducked
behind the pedestal between the 2nd shot and the 3rd shot.

Euins is not seen at the corner of Elm and Houston in any film or photo.

> Euins reported what he saw to the police right away and gave
> a statement that afternoon. He wasn't a witness-come-lately like so
> many others.
>
> http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/12/1284-001.gif
>
> Jean
>

That's why it is so good to have you here. To come to the rescue of the
cover-up. A few honest people listened to what I said and looked at the
films and agree that Euins was not where he said he was. So you have to
repair his reputation to make him a star witness. But in doing so you
throw Loftus under the bus and ignore her advice to always go to the
EARLIEST statement before there is time for the person to be influenced.
You don't tell us when that statement was typed up. But I can guarantee
you that it was not within minutes of the shooting and not typed up in the
middle of Dealey Plaza. Euins's earliest statement was made to the police
and reporters right in Dealey Plaza within minutes of the shooting. And
Euins told the cop and the reporters that the shooter was a black man. By
the time he got home his mother told him that people had called and
threatened his family for saying the shooter was a black man, so he had to
change his story. Loftus and other memory experts do tests where they
stage a fake crime and then ask the spectators what they saw. Some
spectators will claim that they clearly saw something which they could not
possibly have seen. And the videotape proves it did not happen that way.
So here I am pointing out that the films prove that it did not happen the
way Euins said it did and you throw out the photographic evidence and rely
on a witness.


Anthony Marsh

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 4:10:19 PM4/20/12
to
Yes, I can and that is not the only film that shows that area.

> Bell's camera follows the limo down Elm and that part of the masonry
> Toni is standing on disappears from view.
>

Do you have a point? I was merely showing where she was standing.

> A few less sweeping statements in the debate would be nice, Mr Marsh.
>

I'd like to make some more sweeping statements, but they get deleted.

Ken McDonald

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 4:13:04 PM4/20/12
to

"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:3e33c6d4-f217-4f06...@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
You only see Toni for a second. I think that you can see on Anthony's
video, Mark Bell just begins to move his camera to the left to follow the
limo and then goes back to the beginnning. As Mark Bell follows the limo,
he moves his camera to the left and and stops beween the tree (s) and the
pergola (?) where you can see Rosemary Willis running by. Then, he films
the limo racing down Elm St. after the shots were fired. I'm going from
memory because I can't view the film right now. I looked up Mark Bell on
the internet and came across this website that has the Robert Hughs' film
on it. You can see Toni and the author mentions the movement she makes
with her arms and questions whether or not it was a signal for the
assassins ( what will they come up with next?). Most likely, I wouldn't be
able to find it again because when I'm searching, I keep changing the
search expressions. What I really should do is open new tabs.

Ken

Bud

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 4:14:04 PM4/20/12
to
Great! Now we are finally going to get somewhere, you are going to
divulge your point. I was beginning to wonder if there was one.

> There is no film of him the whole
> time.

Ok, you admit you have no film tracking his movements, thats a
start.

> The film shows he was not there.

Wait a minute, you just said there was no film! Now you refer to a
film.

If this film doesn`t show him the whole time it doesn`t do much to
establish what he could or couldn`t see, does it?

> >> I'm not
> >> that interested in what he could see an hour before the shooting or an
> >> hour after the shooting.
>
> >    Or even during the shooting, apparently.
>
> I am very interested in what he could or could not see during the
> shooting. And the film evidence proves that he was lying.

You just said there is no film of him the whole time. Without that
how do you know what he could see or not see?

> >> But he claims that he was crouching down behind
> >> the column during the shooting
>
> >    I thought I explained this to you already, people move, they aren`t
> > statues.
>
> Simplistic.

The truth often is.

> The little girl did not move.

You have film of her the whole time?

> If Euins was really crouched
> down behind the pedestal as he said then he could NOT have seen the
> sniper's nest.

Would you say that this little girl cannot see the cameraman or is
not behind the tree?

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-81312790/stock-photo-two-little-children-hiding-behind-tree.html

> >> and the photographic evidence proves he
> >> wasn't.
>
> >    By all means, produce your photos of Euins throughout the attack.
>
> That's my point. They don't exist because he wasn't where he said he was.

Then show the empty area behind the pedestal during the whole
attack. For God`s sake show something to support you absolute
assertions.

darby...@aol.com

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 9:29:12 PM4/20/12
to
On Apr 20, 4:13 pm, "Ken McDonald" <kRmEcMdOoVnEaJlFd...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> "Bud" <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote in message
Cross my heart, I was just trying to get him to look up at me again.
The only other person I knew in Dealey Plaza that day was my mom.

Toni

Anthony Marsh

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 9:33:21 PM4/20/12
to
Yes, this all started by accident. We originally were interested on in
timing Rosemary's speed running around the top of the reflecting pool. The
someone uploaded this small clip which also showed the girl in blue. And
we also noticed her in the Dorman film. So people started speculating
about it. And I played by the parts of The Lost Bullet where Euins
demonstrated how he crouched down behind the pedestal. I realized that
from that angle Euins could not see the sniper's because the girl in blue
would block his view. But because I am a conspiracy believer all the WC
defenders have to claim that Euins was there an could see the sniper's
nest. The only way that could work is if they are alterationists who claim
that their witness is correct so the photographic evidence must be fake.

Anthony Marsh

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 9:35:29 PM4/20/12
to
The frame in question is not the entire time of the assassination. Just
the gap between the second shot and the third shot according to what he
said.

I played a trick on you. I chose 2 seconds because that is the gap between
the second shot and the head shot, rounded down, according to some WC
defenders. I know there was actually a gap of no shot before the head shot
of almost 5 seconds.

And yes Euins could have run the 100 yard dash in that 10 seconds if he
were scared.

Robin Unger

unread,
Apr 20, 2012, 10:12:35 PM4/20/12
to
On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:59:27 AM UTC+9:30, (unknown) wrote:
> I've been writing a memoir about watching Kennedy's head explode, and I
> came across this site.
>
> For what it's worth, I was standing on top of a cement block at the corner
> of Houston and Elm. Eleven year old girl in a blue ski jacket. Robert
> Hughes, Mark Bell and Frances Dornan films all catch glimpses.
>
> And as hard as it is for folks to believe it, one little jerk fired from
> the window and got off a couple of lucky shots. An idiot killed Kennedy.
> One idiot who had a huge fight with his wife that morning.
>
> I had a panoramic view, and there was no conspiracy. Terrible sadness, but
> no conspiracy.
>
> Toni

Very Nice animated Bell GIF (Zoomed ) Credit: Gerda Dunckel
probably the clearest view we have of Toni on the pedestal.


http://www.abload.de/img/toniinbellugkw0.gif