DiEugenio on Anton Batey
John McAdams
world, but Jim is so obsessed with anybody who disagrees with him that
he bothered to write (with Brian Hunt) this piece.
http://www.ctka.net/2011/batey_article_part2.html
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
David Von Pein
And Part 2 is just as tedious and pointless as Part 1.
The top laugh-getter in Part 2 is this gem from the Hunt/DiEugenio
team of conspiracy mongers:
"The day after the murder, Hoover was so concerned about who
killed President Kennedy that he was at the racetrack. (Summers, op.
cit.) To leave things like this out, and much more, is not writing
history. And it is not honest scholarship. It is depriving the
listener of important information. As we will see, not only does Batey
do that, he goes even further. He eliminates any record of evidence
manipulation, and he then rushes to embrace discredited sources who he
knows will give him false information without the fingerprints of
manipulation on it, e.g., David Von Pein and John McAdams and Dale
Myers."
Alex Foyle
> It's hilarious, really.
Makes one dizzy indeed, in a bad way, for example this bit (quote on):
(Batey wrote) “The evidence that there was not nor could there have been
a gunman on the knoll is overwhelming. Lee Bowers did not see him, Marilyn
Sitzman, Abraham Zapruder, and Emmet Hudson did not see him or hear him,
even though they should have. This ‘knoll gunman’ was unseen by
anyone, and left no evidence behind.” (ibid)
Comment (JdE): Of the four witnesses mentioned, only Bowers was actually
behind the picket fence. Contrary to what Batey writes, Zapruder and
Hudson indicated the sounds of the shots came from behind them, that is
behind the picket fence. (Marrs, Crossfire, pgs 66, 72) We already went
over the testimony of Bowers, who said he saw moving cars, men, and a
flash of light behind the picket fence. But Bowers indicated in a letter
to bookseller Al Navis that he saw more than what he had told the
Commission. Or even what he later told Mark Lane. What he actually saw
finally surfaced in 2001.
At that time researcher Debra Conway interviewed Olan Degaugh. He was the
Supervisor of the yard Department Union Terminal Railroad Company. He was
one position above Bowers’ boss. Olan owned the parking lot behind the
picket fence. He talked to Bowers after the assassination. Bowers told him
that, after the shooting, he saw a man run from the fence, open the trunk
of his car and throw something inside that looked like a rifle. The car
had been parked next to the picket fence, and it then left the area.
(Beyond the Fence Line, by Casey Quinlan and Brian Edwards, p. 157) James
Sterling, a friend of Bowers, told Gary Sanders of Jim Garrison’s staff
roughly the same thing back in 1967.
Somehow Batey missed all this. But that is what you get by relying on the
work of Von Pein, Reitzes, and McAdams." (quote off)
Al Navis? Ha! Martin, where art thou? Olan Degaugh? Debra apparently
interviewed him on October 1, 2001 and again on September 8, 2003. Any
more follow ups on Degaugh by anybody?
Btw Sirhan Sirhan was again denied parole, see:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/03/sirhan-sirhan-denied-parole-robert-kennedy-shooting
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/03/sirhan-sirhan-parole_n_830705.html
timstter
DiEugoosio's own book is littered with errors! He believes that Ed Butler
of INCA was named George, LOL! His whole handling of Oswald's time in New
Orleans shows he didn't bother to do any proper research before he went
into print on the matter.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
davidemerling
Have you ever noticed that, frequently, conspiracy theorists make points
that have no point?
There is a good example of this in the above cited article.
"The FBI searched every gun and ammo shop in Dallas. No one ever sold
Oswald this particular type of ammunition. And there was no such ammo
found in his belongings after the fact. (Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt,
p.105) Does Batey think that someone gave Oswald four bullets and then
said, 'Go kill Kennedy with these.'?"
He says, "No one ever sold Oswald this particular type of ammunition."
What he should have said is this, "The FBI could not find any gun or ammo
shop owner who could remember selling these type of bullets to Oswald."
We know Oswald owned a Mannlicher-Carcano. Disputing that is a losing
argument.
We also know that Oswald took a shot at General Walker.
ERGO! Oswald *did* have, at least, ONE 6.5 round.
If he had one - its reasonable to conclude that he probably had more than
one. He got them SOMEWHERE, that's for sure. The fact that the FBI
couldn't figure out where (or how) he got them does not mean that he did
not have those type of bullets.
I have a theory on this. And, I confess, I have absolutely no proof of
this. Like I said, it's just a thought. I could be wrong. I would think
that bullets would be easy to pilfer from an ammo shop back in the 60's.
Oswald was a cheapskate and I could see him browsing through a gun shop
and slipping a few rounds in his pocket. Just remove a few out of the box.
It would be much easier to steal a few bullets than it would the whole
box.
Look at the ammunition he had for his pistol. It wasn't even all of the
same brand. Did the FBI ever figure out where he got THOSE bullets? Yet -
he had them!
Yet, it's inescapable - Oswald owned both a pistol and rifle and he HAD
ammunition for both. Where he got it - I don't know. I also don't know
where he bought his jacket, either. Yet, he had one!
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
John McAdams
wrote:
>On Mar 2, 10:43=A0pm, John McAdams <john.mcad...@marquette.edu> wrote:
>> It's hilarious, really. =A0Batey is hardly a big-shot in the media
>> world, but Jim is so obsessed with anybody who disagrees with him that
>> he bothered to write (with Brian Hunt) this piece.
>>
>> http://www.ctka.net/2011/batey_article_part2.html
>>
>> .John
>> --------------http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>
>Have you ever noticed that, frequently, conspiracy theorists make points
>that have no point?
>
>There is a good example of this in the above cited article.
>
>"The FBI searched every gun and ammo shop in Dallas. No one ever sold
>Oswald this particular type of ammunition. And there was no such ammo
>found in his belongings after the fact. (Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt,
>p.105) Does Batey think that someone gave Oswald four bullets and then
>said, 'Go kill Kennedy with these.'?"
>
>He says, "No one ever sold Oswald this particular type of ammunition."
>What he should have said is this, "The FBI could not find any gun or ammo
>shop owner who could remember selling these type of bullets to Oswald."
>
>We know Oswald owned a Mannlicher-Carcano. Disputing that is a losing
>argument.
>
I guess it's not too much to argue that he bought a rifle for no
particular reason, and then didn't bother to buy ammo.
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
Well, that ammo was originally made for the CIA so maybe the CIA gave
them to him.
> I have a theory on this. And, I confess, I have absolutely no proof of
> this. Like I said, it's just a thought. I could be wrong. I would think
> that bullets would be easy to pilfer from an ammo shop back in the 60's.
> Oswald was a cheapskate and I could see him browsing through a gun shop
> and slipping a few rounds in his pocket. Just remove a few out of the box.
> It would be much easier to steal a few bullets than it would the whole
> box.
>
Not very likely. Ammo is kept behind the counter.
> Look at the ammunition he had for his pistol. It wasn't even all of the
> same brand. Did the FBI ever figure out where he got THOSE bullets? Yet -
> he had them!
>
The FBI couldn't figure out a lot of things. Are you surprised by that?
The DPD couldn't figure out what the Walker bullet was.
davidemerling
You might be right - I don't know what gun/ammo shops were like in the
60's. Nowadays, there's no question about it.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
David Von Pein
>>> "The DPD couldn't figure out what the Walker bullet was." <<<
Huh? What are you saying? You think the DPD didn't realize CE573 was a
bullet? You think they thought it might be a hand granade or a
watermelon or something?
As for the DPD not being able to trace the Walker bullet to a
particular weapon -- of course they couldn't do that....they had no
rifle in evidence at all. Were they supposed to canvas the whole city
and collect every rifle from every Dallas citizen?
David Von Pein
ADDENDUM TO MY LAST POST RE THE WALKER BULLET:
I realize that Tony Marsh's above comment was probably referring to
the color discrepancy concerning the Walker bullet (silver vs. copper-
colored), which has led some conspiracy theorists to think that we've
got yet another piece of phony/fake evidence connected with Lee Harvey
Oswald.
I just felt like having some fun with good ol' Anthony M., because the
way he worded his remark, it sounded like he thought the Dallas Police
couldn't distinguish a mashed bullet from a piece of celery.
Salutations and Godspeed,
DVP
John McAdams
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>On 3/3/2011 11:01 PM, davidemerling wrote:
>> On Mar 2, 10:43 pm, John McAdams<john.mcad...@marquette.edu> wrote:
>>> It's hilarious, really. Batey is hardly a big-shot in the media
>>> world, but Jim is so obsessed with anybody who disagrees with him that
>>> he bothered to write (with Brian Hunt) this piece.
>>>
>>> http://www.ctka.net/2011/batey_article_part2.html
>>>
>>
>> Have you ever noticed that, frequently, conspiracy theorists make points
>> that have no point?
>>
>> There is a good example of this in the above cited article.
>>
>> "The FBI searched every gun and ammo shop in Dallas. No one ever sold
>> Oswald this particular type of ammunition. And there was no such ammo
>> found in his belongings after the fact. (Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt,
>> p.105) Does Batey think that someone gave Oswald four bullets and then
>> said, 'Go kill Kennedy with these.'?"
>>
>> He says, "No one ever sold Oswald this particular type of ammunition."
>> What he should have said is this, "The FBI could not find any gun or ammo
>> shop owner who could remember selling these type of bullets to Oswald."
>>
>> We know Oswald owned a Mannlicher-Carcano. Disputing that is a losing
>> argument.
>>
>> We also know that Oswald took a shot at General Walker.
>>
>> ERGO! Oswald *did* have, at least, ONE 6.5 round.
>>
>> If he had one - its reasonable to conclude that he probably had more than
>> one. He got them SOMEWHERE, that's for sure. The fact that the FBI
>> couldn't figure out where (or how) he got them does not mean that he did
>> not have those type of bullets.
>>
>
>Well, that ammo was originally made for the CIA so maybe the CIA gave
>them to him.
>
I have no idea whether that's true or not, but the ammo was easily
bought in 1963.
Indeed, in the 70s when John Lattimer did his experiments, he bought
ammo identical to Oswald's, right down to the lot numbers.
Anthony Marsh
Yes, it was, but the DPD and the FBI were not able to find out where he
bought it. He could have bought it mail order, but the FBI was never
able to trace it back to where he bought it.
It was not easily bought in every local store in Dallas. I am willing to
bet that you could spend a week looking for it in your area and not be
able to find a store that has it.
Anyway, you should not have even responded to my comment. It was only
facetious. It is shocking that you would even admit to the possibility
that the CIA gave Oswald the ammunition.
> Indeed, in the 70s when John Lattimer did his experiments, he bought
> ammo identical to Oswald's, right down to the lot numbers.
>
Yes, so have many others. I doubt that he found it at the corner drug store.
Anthony Marsh
>
> ADDENDUM TO MY LAST POST RE THE WALKER BULLET:
>
> I realize that Tony Marsh's above comment was probably referring to
> the color discrepancy concerning the Walker bullet (silver vs. copper-
> colored), which has led some conspiracy theorists to think that we've
> got yet another piece of phony/fake evidence connected with Lee Harvey
> Oswald.
No, it wasn't. You are thinking about someone else's post. I already
explained that the bullet had gotten darker over the years. And I also
showed that even so-called gun experts can't even tell the difference
between a steel jacketed bullet and a copper jacketed bullet. Obviously
the DPD could not tell the difference because their budget was so small
that no one could even afford a magnet. I demonstrated to the so-called
gun experts with a simple magnet the difference between a steel jacketed
bullet and a copper jacketed bullet. I cheated a little because I already
knew at a glance that the ammo was SMI which is copper jacketed. Next time
I'll trick them with my steel penny.
>
> I just felt like having some fun with good ol' Anthony M., because the
> way he worded his remark, it sounded like he thought the Dallas Police
> couldn't distinguish a mashed bullet from a piece of celery.
>
Are you going only by the shape of the bullet? I wonder why some people
use the term mushrooming? Is that based on the taste of the bullet?
Anthony Marsh
>
>
>
> Huh? What are you saying? You think the DPD didn't realize CE573 was a
> bullet? You think they thought it might be a hand granade or a
> watermelon or something?
>
They couldn't figure out the caliber and brand. The FBI and HSCA could.
The DPD couldn't figure out what the rifle was. They didn't know that
Terni is in Italy.
> As for the DPD not being able to trace the Walker bullet to a
> particular weapon -- of course they couldn't do that....they had no
> rifle in evidence at all. Were they supposed to canvas the whole city
> and collect every rifle from every Dallas citizen?
>
If they had been diligent enough to figure out that it was a
Mannlicher-Carcano bullet and specifically a WCC bullet, they could have
tried to find out who in the area owned that unique combination of rifle
and ammunition. They could have narrowed it down from 100 people to only
one.
This is one continuing problem with sloppy police work. Millions of cases
go unsolved and the perpetrators are free to roam around and commit more
crimes.
John McAdams
wrote:
>
>And Part 2 is just as tedious and pointless as Part 1.
>
>The top laugh-getter in Part 2 is this gem from the Hunt/DiEugenio
>team of conspiracy mongers:
>
>
> "The day after the murder, Hoover was so concerned about who
>killed President Kennedy that he was at the racetrack.
Of course, if Hoover was so concerned about *covering up* a
conspiracy, why would he be at the racetrack?
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
Of course, this not only contradicts what Bowers told the Dallas cops,
and told the WC, but what he told Mark Lane.
It seems that after somebody is dead, you can make up any story about
them.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>On 3/5/2011 2:13 PM, John McAdams wrote:
>> On 4 Mar 2011 18:54:15 -0500, Anthony Marsh
>> <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, that ammo was originally made for the CIA so maybe the CIA gave
>>> them to him.
>>>
>>
>> I have no idea whether that's true or not, but the ammo was easily
>> bought in 1963.
>>
>
>Yes, it was, but the DPD and the FBI were not able to find out where he
>bought it. He could have bought it mail order, but the FBI was never
>able to trace it back to where he bought it.
>It was not easily bought in every local store in Dallas. I am willing to
>bet that you could spend a week looking for it in your area and not be
>able to find a store that has it.
>Anyway, you should not have even responded to my comment. It was only
>facetious. It is shocking that you would even admit to the possibility
>that the CIA gave Oswald the ammunition.
>
Don't misrepresent what I said, Tony.
My entire point is that the CIA would *not* have given it to him.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
That's not the way you phrased it. Others would see that if you didn't
constantly snip out the context.
You said "I have no idea whether that's true or not."
You did not say "Impossible."
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
> On 3 Mar 2011 12:01:54 -0500, David Von Pein<davev...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> And Part 2 is just as tedious and pointless as Part 1.
>>
>> The top laugh-getter in Part 2 is this gem from the Hunt/DiEugenio
>> team of conspiracy mongers:
>>
>>
>> "The day after the murder, Hoover was so concerned about who
>> killed President Kennedy that he was at the racetrack.
>
> Of course, if Hoover was so concerned about *covering up* a
> conspiracy, why would he be at the racetrack?
>
To ask the Mafia if they had a hitman in Dallas to kill Oswald? ;]>
Why does the KGB's head of assassination carry on routine consular
affairs? Why does Kennedy go to Chicago for Daley's dinner when the
Soviets are about to launch their missiles?
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm