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Clint Hill was not slow to react
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claviger
May 18, 2012, 7:37:41 PM5/18/12
to
Some witnesses only heard two shots. Clint Hill is one of those
witnesses. He reacted immediately to the first shot he heard and hit the
ground running. Hill was a split second from the back bumper when the
third shot struck the President in the head. Why didn't he heard the
first shot? Don't know but there was a lot of crowd noise and motorcycles
all around him. Many witnesses did not react to the first loud sound or
recognize it as a gunshot. Most thought it was some kind of firecracker,
others thought it was a motorcycle backfire, and a few thought it sounded
like a tire blowout. All these are non lethal sounds, no cause for alarm.
Why the first loud pop didn't register with Hill we'll never know, but he
instantly moved toward the Limousine at the first sound he perceived as a
threat.
witnesses. He reacted immediately to the first shot he heard and hit the
ground running. Hill was a split second from the back bumper when the
third shot struck the President in the head. Why didn't he heard the
first shot? Don't know but there was a lot of crowd noise and motorcycles
all around him. Many witnesses did not react to the first loud sound or
recognize it as a gunshot. Most thought it was some kind of firecracker,
others thought it was a motorcycle backfire, and a few thought it sounded
like a tire blowout. All these are non lethal sounds, no cause for alarm.
Why the first loud pop didn't register with Hill we'll never know, but he
instantly moved toward the Limousine at the first sound he perceived as a
threat.
everet...@gmail.com
May 18, 2012, 11:01:36 PM5/18/12
to
pjsp...@aol.com
May 19, 2012, 9:55:44 AM5/19/12
to
responded to the first shot some thought to be a firecracker, and that
the sound Hill failed to recognize was one of the last two shots.
Most of the secret service agents said they heard three shots, and yet
none responded to a shot before Hill.
Virtually everyone noting Kennedy's actions after the first shot saw
him respond in a manner suggesting he was hit.
When one matches these statements up to the Z-film it becomes quite
clear: Kennedy was hit by the first shot.
Hans Trayne
May 19, 2012, 10:01:23 AM5/19/12
to
as well as the Queen Mary and its passengers tailgaiting the attacked
vehicle vaporized when the Feds began filming re-enactments and working
out several surveys and trajectories. A visit to Pat Speer's website goes
over this nicely.
When the media jumped in the guards were missing from media re- enactments
also. Go back and look at the old CBS/Rather renenactments and where do
you see the guards & their car represented? You don't. It's presented as
if JFK was all alone in his car on Elm Street when the truth is his guards
were right behind him.
Today, the media will interview the agents and they will tell you what
they heard, saw & did during the attack but they aren't represented during
attack re-enactments simulating a rear assassin attack. This is a
tremendeous dis-service to the agents. It's like doing a re- enactment of
the Beatles & leaving out Ringo.
Beginning with the book 'Mortal Error' the guard car was pointed at as the
rear shot origin for the fatal head shot to JFK. Some feel the guardswere
left out of re-enactments because they blocked a rear trajectory to the
alleged TSBD assain's window and his line of sight to JFK.
Until an honest re-enactment (that will clear up this suspicion that the
guards were involved in the murder of JFK) is conducted the suspicion will
remain & probably grow. The disservice will continue if things remain the
way they are in the historical record.
Probably not a day passes where visitors to dealey Plaza work out their
own trajectory analysis on either of the Elm Street X's and make their own
determination if JFK's rear guards killed him.
There is not much in the way of visuals to see what the rear guards did
during the attack. I'ver been hearing that the Bronson film is being
studied very closely & what it may reveal remains to be see. The brief
images of the guards tailgaiting JFK are blocked by center meridian
witnesses plus the right side of the Queen Mary cannot be seen in the
film.
claviger
May 19, 2012, 11:00:52 AM5/19/12
to
Pat,
> Virtually everyone noting Kennedy's actions after the first shot saw
> him respond in a manner suggesting he was hit.
>
> When one matches these statements up to the Z-film it becomes quite
> clear: Kennedy was hit by the first shot.
Ballistics expert Howard Donahue came to the conclusion President Kennedy
was wounded by fragments of the first shot that ricocheted off the
pavement causing him to react by raising his clenched fists and exclaim
"My God, I'm hit!" to Kellerman. Mortuary employees observed puncture
wounds on the face of the President. The famous Altgens photo confirms
the second shot caused further wounds to the President and Governor
Connally.
> Virtually everyone noting Kennedy's actions after the first shot saw
> him respond in a manner suggesting he was hit.
>
> When one matches these statements up to the Z-film it becomes quite
> clear: Kennedy was hit by the first shot.
was wounded by fragments of the first shot that ricocheted off the
pavement causing him to react by raising his clenched fists and exclaim
"My God, I'm hit!" to Kellerman. Mortuary employees observed puncture
wounds on the face of the President. The famous Altgens photo confirms
the second shot caused further wounds to the President and Governor
Connally.
John Fiorentino
May 19, 2012, 12:25:39 PM5/19/12
to
Kennedy didn't say anything to anyone.
The first shot missed, and he was hit by the second, then third.
John F.
"claviger" <histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8facc353-42fa-41b8...@n16g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
The first shot missed, and he was hit by the second, then third.
John F.
"claviger" <histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8facc353-42fa-41b8...@n16g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
r2bz...@sbcglobal.net
May 19, 2012, 12:26:03 PM5/19/12
to
Hargis said he thought the first shot hit Connally, due to the way
Connally turned around to look at JFK.
In the autopsy photo of JFK, where are there puncture wound visible on
the face?
The "Conspiracy of One" author's final solution was that the first
shot ricocheted off the pavement, causing the reaction seen at Z225
onward. However, JFK's reaction was not that of touching his hand to
the right side of his face, in response to being stung by flecks of
pavement.
***Ron
claviger
May 19, 2012, 12:26:33 PM5/19/12
to
______________________________________________________________
Original Report
We departed Love Field at 11:55 a.m., along the planned motorcade
route, enroute to a luncheon at the Trade Mart, given by the
Democratic Citizens Council, scheduled for 12:30 p.m. cst. As the
motorcade completed the main thoroughfare through Dallas, we made a
sharp right turn, for about a 1/2 block, then a curved left turn into
a slight downhill grade entering an area with little or no spectators.
We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15
miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker,
exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 p.m.
Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice,
"My God, I'm hit!" I turned around to find out what happened when two
additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs.
Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell_to Mrs. Connally's lap. I
heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, "What are they doing to you?"
______________________________________________________________
r2bz...@sbcglobal.net
May 19, 2012, 12:26:09 PM5/19/12
to
On May 18, 4:37 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hill said he was scanning the crowd when he heard "a noise similar to
a firecracker." He said he turned his head to the right and in doing
so he "saw the President hunch forward and then slump to his left".
Zapruder heard a shot and saw JFK slump over to his left. Altgens
heard a shot and took his Z255 photo.
Clint Hill heard the first shot and saw JFK slump to his left.
***Ron Judge
drummist1965
May 19, 2012, 3:14:02 PM5/19/12
to
z 249, you will note that his head turns hard right as the car travels
down Elm. I have always felt that he is examining the umbrella man as
this is the direction his head is turned until he disappears from the
sprocket area and film altogether until after the head shot.
Robert Harris
May 19, 2012, 8:08:20 PM5/19/12
to
Hill jumped from the running board in direct reaction to the shot at frame
285. And in fact, he told the WC that he thought JFK first reacted at the
same time that he jumped. He obviously, didn't realize that JFK had been
hit earlier. If he had, he would have been on the pavement much earlier.
This video examines his actions and his statements related to this issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
Robert Harris
In article
<8739c8e9-0cdd-476c...@e20g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
John Fiorentino
May 19, 2012, 8:10:02 PM5/19/12
to
Mrs. KENNEDY. No; I was looking this way, to the left, and I heard these
terrible noises. You know. And my husband never made any sound.
If you view the Z film you will also see that this idea of JFK talking
(AFTER) being hit is so much nonsense.
Pay attention to where the ist shot (approx.) missed by frame number, and
view Kennedy. This idea that he was hit by "fragments" from the ist shot
miss is not supported by the evidence.
news:c44b0c38-4a91-4c25...@em1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
terrible noises. You know. And my husband never made any sound.
If you view the Z film you will also see that this idea of JFK talking
(AFTER) being hit is so much nonsense.
Pay attention to where the ist shot (approx.) missed by frame number, and
view Kennedy. This idea that he was hit by "fragments" from the ist shot
miss is not supported by the evidence.
news:c44b0c38-4a91-4c25...@em1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
May 19, 2012, 8:19:04 PM5/19/12
to
shot and turned his head to the right towards the sound.
As he did he saw the President reacting to having been shot.
Anthony Marsh
May 19, 2012, 9:40:41 PM5/19/12
to
Anthony Marsh
May 19, 2012, 9:40:53 PM5/19/12
to
reacting quicker.
Anthony Marsh
May 19, 2012, 9:41:17 PM5/19/12
to
On 5/19/2012 12:26 PM, r2bz...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> On May 19, 8:00 am, claviger<historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Pat,
>>
>>> Virtually everyone noting Kennedy's actions after the first shot saw
>>> him respond in a manner suggesting he was hit.
>>
>>> When one matches these statements up to the Z-film it becomes quite
>>> clear: Kennedy was hit by the first shot.
>>
>> Ballistics expert Howard Donahue came to the conclusion President Kennedy
>> was wounded by fragments of the first shot that ricocheted off the
>> pavement causing him to react by raising his clenched fists and exclaim
>> "My God, I'm hit!" to Kellerman. Mortuary employees observed puncture
>> wounds on the face of the President. The famous Altgens photo confirms
>> the second shot caused further wounds to the President and Governor
>> Connally.
>
>
>
> ***Altgens said he took his photo after the first shot. Officer
> Hargis said he thought the first shot hit Connally, due to the way
> Connally turned around to look at JFK.
>
> In the autopsy photo of JFK, where are there puncture wound visible on
> the face?
>
I don't get your question. You have intentionally used a plural verb
>> Pat,
>>
>>> Virtually everyone noting Kennedy's actions after the first shot saw
>>> him respond in a manner suggesting he was hit.
>>
>>> When one matches these statements up to the Z-film it becomes quite
>>> clear: Kennedy was hit by the first shot.
>>
>> Ballistics expert Howard Donahue came to the conclusion President Kennedy
>> was wounded by fragments of the first shot that ricocheted off the
>> pavement causing him to react by raising his clenched fists and exclaim
>> "My God, I'm hit!" to Kellerman. Mortuary employees observed puncture
>> wounds on the face of the President. The famous Altgens photo confirms
>> the second shot caused further wounds to the President and Governor
>> Connally.
>
>
>
> ***Altgens said he took his photo after the first shot. Officer
> Hargis said he thought the first shot hit Connally, due to the way
> Connally turned around to look at JFK.
>
> In the autopsy photo of JFK, where are there puncture wound visible on
> the face?
>
with a singular subject. What puncture are you talking about? Do you
mean the bullet hole? That can be seen in the autopsy photo Fox 8 and
was pointed out by Dr. Lawrence Angel.
> The "Conspiracy of One" author's final solution was that the first
> shot ricocheted off the pavement, causing the reaction seen at Z225
> onward. However, JFK's reaction was not that of touching his hand to
> the right side of his face, in response to being stung by flecks of
> pavement.
>
which would hit only the front of JFK's face and hit nothing else in the
limo.
> ***Ron
>
claviger
May 19, 2012, 10:09:54 PM5/19/12
to
On May 19, 7:10 pm, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net>
wrote:
How do you explain the puncture wounds on the President's face noticed
by the morticians?
wrote:
> Mrs. KENNEDY. No; I was looking this way, to the left, and I heard these
> terrible noises. You know. And my husband never made any sound.
>
> If you view the Z film you will also see that this idea of JFK talking
> (AFTER) being hit is so much nonsense.
>
> Pay attention to where the ist shot (approx.) missed by frame number, and
> view Kennedy. This idea that he was hit by "fragments" from the ist shot
> miss is not supported by the evidence.
>
> John F.
John,
> terrible noises. You know. And my husband never made any sound.
>
> If you view the Z film you will also see that this idea of JFK talking
> (AFTER) being hit is so much nonsense.
>
> Pay attention to where the ist shot (approx.) missed by frame number, and
> view Kennedy. This idea that he was hit by "fragments" from the ist shot
> miss is not supported by the evidence.
>
> John F.
How do you explain the puncture wounds on the President's face noticed
by the morticians?
Anthony Marsh
May 19, 2012, 10:12:38 PM5/19/12
to
On 5/19/2012 10:01 AM, Hans Trayne wrote:
> On May 18, 10:01 pm, everett.fu...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, May 18, 2012 6:37:41 PM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
>>> Some witnesses only heard two shots. Clint Hill is one of those
>>> witnesses. He reacted immediately to the first shot he heard and hit the
>>> ground running. Hill was a split second from the back bumper when the
>>> third shot struck the President in the head. Why didn't he heard the
>>> first shot? Don't know but there was a lot of crowd noise and motorcycles
>>> all around him. Many witnesses did not react to the first loud sound or
>>> recognize it as a gunshot. Most thought it was some kind of firecracker,
>>> others thought it was a motorcycle backfire, and a few thought it sounded
>>> like a tire blowout. All these are non lethal sounds, no cause for alarm.
>>> Why the first loud pop didn't register with Hill we'll never know, but he
>>> instantly moved toward the Limousine at the first sound he perceived as a
>>> threat.
>>
>> I agree. Clint Hill responded admirably.
>
> For reasons that some find suspicious Hill's dangerous dash to the JFK car
> as well as the Queen Mary and its passengers tailgaiting the attacked
> vehicle vaporized when the Feds began filming re-enactments and working
> out several surveys and trajectories. A visit to Pat Speer's website goes
> over this nicely.
>
> When the media jumped in the guards were missing from media re- enactments
> also. Go back and look at the old CBS/Rather renenactments and where do
> you see the guards& their car represented? You don't. It's presented as
> On May 18, 10:01 pm, everett.fu...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, May 18, 2012 6:37:41 PM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
>>> Some witnesses only heard two shots. Clint Hill is one of those
>>> witnesses. He reacted immediately to the first shot he heard and hit the
>>> ground running. Hill was a split second from the back bumper when the
>>> third shot struck the President in the head. Why didn't he heard the
>>> first shot? Don't know but there was a lot of crowd noise and motorcycles
>>> all around him. Many witnesses did not react to the first loud sound or
>>> recognize it as a gunshot. Most thought it was some kind of firecracker,
>>> others thought it was a motorcycle backfire, and a few thought it sounded
>>> like a tire blowout. All these are non lethal sounds, no cause for alarm.
>>> Why the first loud pop didn't register with Hill we'll never know, but he
>>> instantly moved toward the Limousine at the first sound he perceived as a
>>> threat.
>>
>> I agree. Clint Hill responded admirably.
>
> For reasons that some find suspicious Hill's dangerous dash to the JFK car
> as well as the Queen Mary and its passengers tailgaiting the attacked
> vehicle vaporized when the Feds began filming re-enactments and working
> out several surveys and trajectories. A visit to Pat Speer's website goes
> over this nicely.
>
> When the media jumped in the guards were missing from media re- enactments
> also. Go back and look at the old CBS/Rather renenactments and where do
> if JFK was all alone in his car on Elm Street when the truth is his guards
> were right behind him.
>
You don't need extraneous details to figure out the basic facts. Where
> were right behind him.
>
were the cyclists and why don't you complain about that? You could claim
that they blocked some shots. Why didn't they trim the oak tree? Why
didn't you complain about that?
You are making a mountain out of a molehill as if niggling proves
conspiracy.
> Today, the media will interview the agents and they will tell you what
> attack re-enactments simulating a rear assassin attack. This is a
> tremendeous dis-service to the agents. It's like doing a re- enactment of
> the Beatles& leaving out Ringo.
>
Silly.
> tremendeous dis-service to the agents. It's like doing a re- enactment of
> the Beatles& leaving out Ringo.
>
> Beginning with the book 'Mortal Error' the guard car was pointed at as the
> rear shot origin for the fatal head shot to JFK. Some feel the guardswere
> left out of re-enactments because they blocked a rear trajectory to the
> alleged TSBD assain's window and his line of sight to JFK.
>
> Until an honest re-enactment (that will clear up this suspicion that the
> guards were involved in the murder of JFK) is conducted the suspicion will
> way they are in the historical record.
>
There is no suspicion. Just your refusal to do any actual research.
>
How in the world can the guards be involved? Something is not true just
because you imagine it.
> Probably not a day passes where visitors to dealey Plaza work out their
> own trajectory analysis on either of the Elm Street X's and make their own
> determination if JFK's rear guards killed him.
>
> There is not much in the way of visuals to see what the rear guards did
> during the attack. I'ver been hearing that the Bronson film is being
> images of the guards tailgaiting JFK are blocked by center meridian
> witnesses plus the right side of the Queen Mary cannot be seen in the
> film.
>
What's your problem? Don't you own a protractor?
> witnesses plus the right side of the Queen Mary cannot be seen in the
> film.
>
Anthony Marsh
May 19, 2012, 10:12:25 PM5/19/12
to
And you claim that Jackie sitting right next to him didn't hear him say
that?
Anthony Marsh
May 19, 2012, 10:14:22 PM5/19/12
to
On 5/19/2012 9:55 AM, pjsp...@AOL.COM wrote:
> On May 18, 4:37 pm, claviger<historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Some witnesses only heard two shots. Clint Hill is one of those
>> witnesses. He reacted immediately to the first shot he heard and hit the
>> ground running. Hill was a split second from the back bumper when the
>> third shot struck the President in the head. Why didn't he heard the
>> first shot? Don't know but there was a lot of crowd noise and motorcycles
>> all around him. Many witnesses did not react to the first loud sound or
>> recognize it as a gunshot. Most thought it was some kind of firecracker,
>> others thought it was a motorcycle backfire, and a few thought it sounded
>> like a tire blowout. All these are non lethal sounds, no cause for alarm.
>> Why the first loud pop didn't register with Hill we'll never know, but he
>> instantly moved toward the Limousine at the first sound he perceived as a
>> threat.
>
> It's clear when one studies the eyewitness statements that Hill
> responded to the first shot some thought to be a firecracker, and that
> the sound Hill failed to recognize was one of the last two shots.
>
> Most of the secret service agents said they heard three shots, and yet
> none responded to a shot before Hill.
>
Ready, Landis and Hickey had already turned their heads back to their
> On May 18, 4:37 pm, claviger<historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Some witnesses only heard two shots. Clint Hill is one of those
>> witnesses. He reacted immediately to the first shot he heard and hit the
>> ground running. Hill was a split second from the back bumper when the
>> third shot struck the President in the head. Why didn't he heard the
>> first shot? Don't know but there was a lot of crowd noise and motorcycles
>> all around him. Many witnesses did not react to the first loud sound or
>> recognize it as a gunshot. Most thought it was some kind of firecracker,
>> others thought it was a motorcycle backfire, and a few thought it sounded
>> like a tire blowout. All these are non lethal sounds, no cause for alarm.
>> Why the first loud pop didn't register with Hill we'll never know, but he
>> instantly moved toward the Limousine at the first sound he perceived as a
>> threat.
>
> It's clear when one studies the eyewitness statements that Hill
> responded to the first shot some thought to be a firecracker, and that
> the sound Hill failed to recognize was one of the last two shots.
>
> Most of the secret service agents said they heard three shots, and yet
> none responded to a shot before Hill.
>
right before the Altgens photo.
> Virtually everyone noting Kennedy's actions after the first shot saw
> him respond in a manner suggesting he was hit.
>
> When one matches these statements up to the Z-film it becomes quite
> clear: Kennedy was hit by the first shot.
>
You are misrepresenting witnesses to make them fit your pet theory.
In the trade we call that pulling a Harris.
drummist1965
May 20, 2012, 12:05:26 AM5/20/12
to
isn't.
The slow motion head turn by Hill doesn't indicate to me that he was
reacting to a gunshot.
From all indications, he is watching the man with the umbrella, and
with very good reason. That is what they were trained to do.
r2bz...@sbcglobal.net
May 20, 2012, 12:06:16 AM5/20/12
to
On May 19, 6:41 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > The "Conspiracy of One" author's final solution was that the first
> > shot ricocheted off the pavement, causing the reaction seen at Z225
> > onward. However, JFK's reaction was not that of touching his hand to
> > the right side of his face, in response to being stung by flecks of
> > pavement.
>
> It's a ridiculous theory. And it's almost impossible to plot an angle
> which would hit only the front of JFK's face and hit nothing else in the
> limo.
***Yes, it was a ridiculous theory.
> > ***Ron
> On 5/19/2012 12:26 PM, r2bzju...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 8:00 am, claviger<historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Pat,
>
> >>> Virtually everyone noting Kennedy's actions after the first shot saw
> >>> him respond in a manner suggesting he was hit.
>
> >>> When one matches these statements up to the Z-film it becomes quite
> >>> clear: Kennedy was hit by the first shot.
>
> >> Ballistics expert Howard Donahue came to the conclusion President Kennedy
> >> was wounded by fragments of the first shot that ricocheted off the
> >> pavement causing him to react by raising his clenched fists and exclaim
> >> "My God, I'm hit!" to Kellerman. Mortuary employees observed puncture
> >> wounds on the face of the President. The famous Altgens photo confirms
> >> the second shot caused further wounds to the President and Governor
> >> Connally.
>
> > ***Altgens said he took his photo after the first shot. Officer
> > Hargis said he thought the first shot hit Connally, due to the way
> > Connally turned around to look at JFK.
>
> > In the autopsy photo of JFK, where are there puncture wound visible on
> > the face?
>
> I don't get your question. You have intentionally used a plural verb
> with a singular subject. What puncture are you talking about? Do you
> mean the bullet hole? That can be seen in the autopsy photo Fox 8 and
> was pointed out by Dr. Lawrence Angel.
***Oops, i didn't type the s.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 8:00 am, claviger<historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Pat,
>
> >>> Virtually everyone noting Kennedy's actions after the first shot saw
> >>> him respond in a manner suggesting he was hit.
>
> >>> When one matches these statements up to the Z-film it becomes quite
> >>> clear: Kennedy was hit by the first shot.
>
> >> Ballistics expert Howard Donahue came to the conclusion President Kennedy
> >> was wounded by fragments of the first shot that ricocheted off the
> >> pavement causing him to react by raising his clenched fists and exclaim
> >> "My God, I'm hit!" to Kellerman. Mortuary employees observed puncture
> >> wounds on the face of the President. The famous Altgens photo confirms
> >> the second shot caused further wounds to the President and Governor
> >> Connally.
>
> > ***Altgens said he took his photo after the first shot. Officer
> > Hargis said he thought the first shot hit Connally, due to the way
> > Connally turned around to look at JFK.
>
> > In the autopsy photo of JFK, where are there puncture wound visible on
> > the face?
>
> I don't get your question. You have intentionally used a plural verb
> with a singular subject. What puncture are you talking about? Do you
> mean the bullet hole? That can be seen in the autopsy photo Fox 8 and
> was pointed out by Dr. Lawrence Angel.
>
> > The "Conspiracy of One" author's final solution was that the first
> > shot ricocheted off the pavement, causing the reaction seen at Z225
> > onward. However, JFK's reaction was not that of touching his hand to
> > the right side of his face, in response to being stung by flecks of
> > pavement.
>
> It's a ridiculous theory. And it's almost impossible to plot an angle
> which would hit only the front of JFK's face and hit nothing else in the
> limo.
> > ***Ron
Anthony Marsh
May 20, 2012, 11:30:50 AM5/20/12
to
misrepresenting what I say.
> The slow motion head turn by Hill doesn't indicate to me that he was
> reacting to a gunshot.
> From all indications, he is watching the man with the umbrella, and
> with very good reason. That is what they were trained to do.
>
Anthony Marsh
May 20, 2012, 11:30:57 AM5/20/12
to
Fabrication.
Never rely on witnesses.
Hans Trayne
May 20, 2012, 11:32:25 AM5/20/12
to
the shots fired at the occupants of JFK’s parade car they left out the
SS guards and their car tailgating it. This carried over to the WC and
was not questioned by the HSCA. The media followed with its own re-
enactments that mimicked the Feds example and also left out the guards
& their car.
The creation of the suspicion that the guards had something to do with
the attack was created by government investigators & the media who
left the guards out of re-enactment analysis processes.
Since the official reports were made public the media has gone to
great lengths to convince the public JFK, Connally & Tague were all
victims of a rifle attack conducted by a single assassin: Lee Harvey
Oswald by presenting the Presidential auto as if it were all alone
traveling down Elm Street when it came under attack while the public
knows better. Why are the guards & their car being avoided, could a
rear sniper have a clear line of sight to JFK with his guards right
behind him and does a trajectory from JFK to his rear pass through the
guards are major questions that have not been addressed nor answered.
At the urging of a couple of research friends of mine I may put
together a video demonstration of all this. A visit to Pat Speer’s
website should suffice for most as he has assembled a good timeline &
visuals of all the federal filmed re-enactments and the several
surveys, changing trajectories and different placement of the shots.
Par Speer doesn’t address why the guards & their car were left out of
prior scientific processes regarding simulating the attack.
I am posting this and all prior comments because the government
officials who created this problem are mostly dead and gone. The new
government officials are taking the heat for what their predecessors
created yet it’s within that loop where the problem needs to be and
can be corrected.
Once a truthful and accurate re-enactment is conducted (with all
elements present during the attack on JFK & entourage 22 November
1963, specifically, replica JFK parade car & Queen Mary with actor
stand-ins flanked by 4 motorcycle riders) and the public is assured
with visuals that:
(1) A rear assassin had a constant or sporadic opportunity to shoot at
JFK.
(2) A rear assassin’s line of sight was not blocked by JFK’s guards &
their car the entire attack
(3) None of the guards were involved in the gunfire on JFK, his
entourage, his parade car and damage sustained in Dealey Plaza and to
James Tague.
Until this is done in the JFK case the public has every right to
suspect or reject the
hard evidence and reject the official explanation of the crime because
what’s been presented to the public is no different that analyzing the
Titanic disaster & leaving out the iceberg or analyzing the Challenger
disaster and omitting the fuel tank & its rocket boosters. It wouldn’t
be accurate or honest & once the public became educated and aware of
the dishonest approach & presentation the public has every right to
reject it as fraudulent.
If any or all media documentaries are fronted by government operatives
(as some suspect) is it really that hard to be accurate in the re-
enactments? Have those folks considered hiring the people that
analyzed why the Challenger blew apart or hiring the man who found
Titanic to sort out what happened on Elm Street almost 50 years ago as
it pertains to a rear assassin?
As it stands now, if a high school or college student gave a
presentation of the attack in Dealey Plaza and wanted to demonstrate
to his/her audience with visuals just how close the guards came to
being victims that day they'd have nothing to show because those
highly competent government & media invcestigators left the guards &
their car out of the scientific analysis processes.
This needs to be fixed.
Anthony Marsh
May 20, 2012, 11:33:54 AM5/20/12
to
On 5/19/2012 8:08 PM, Robert Harris wrote:
> Hill jumped from the running board in direct reaction to the shot at frame
> 285. And in fact, he told the WC that he thought JFK first reacted at the
> same time that he jumped. He obviously, didn't realize that JFK had been
> hit earlier. If he had, he would have been on the pavement much earlier.
>
> This video examines his actions and his statements related to this issue.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
>
> Robert Harris
>
Pathetic. Prove EXACTLY when Hill jumped off the running board.
> Hill jumped from the running board in direct reaction to the shot at frame
> 285. And in fact, he told the WC that he thought JFK first reacted at the
> same time that he jumped. He obviously, didn't realize that JFK had been
> hit earlier. If he had, he would have been on the pavement much earlier.
>
> This video examines his actions and his statements related to this issue.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
>
> Robert Harris
>
John Fiorentino
May 20, 2012, 11:35:29 AM5/20/12
to
There were no "puncture wounds" that I'm aware of.
Where are you getting this from, Fetzer??
news:5b71d429-4f49-4b70...@b1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Where are you getting this from, Fetzer??
news:5b71d429-4f49-4b70...@b1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Robert Harris
May 20, 2012, 5:13:47 PM5/20/12
to
In article <4fb8...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
299-300.
He can be seen descending to the pavement in the Bronson film. This is a
relatively poor copy, from the Groden video, but I talked with Gary Mack
who has a much better copy and by counting back from frames that match
with certain Zapruder frames, (at a ratio of 1.5 to 1, since Bronson's
camera was running at 12fps) it's not too hard to pin down the equivalent
Zframe.
http://jfkhistory.com/bronson2.gif
Robert Harris
Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 5/19/2012 8:08 PM, Robert Harris wrote:
> > Hill jumped from the running board in direct reaction to the shot at frame
> > 285. And in fact, he told the WC that he thought JFK first reacted at the
> > same time that he jumped. He obviously, didn't realize that JFK had been
> > hit earlier. If he had, he would have been on the pavement much earlier.
> >
> > This video examines his actions and his statements related to this issue.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
> >
> > Robert Harris
> >
>
> Pathetic. Prove EXACTLY when Hill jumped off the running board.
I already did that. Hill jumped at the equivalent of Zapruder frame,
> On 5/19/2012 8:08 PM, Robert Harris wrote:
> > Hill jumped from the running board in direct reaction to the shot at frame
> > 285. And in fact, he told the WC that he thought JFK first reacted at the
> > same time that he jumped. He obviously, didn't realize that JFK had been
> > hit earlier. If he had, he would have been on the pavement much earlier.
> >
> > This video examines his actions and his statements related to this issue.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
> >
> > Robert Harris
> >
>
> Pathetic. Prove EXACTLY when Hill jumped off the running board.
299-300.
He can be seen descending to the pavement in the Bronson film. This is a
relatively poor copy, from the Groden video, but I talked with Gary Mack
who has a much better copy and by counting back from frames that match
with certain Zapruder frames, (at a ratio of 1.5 to 1, since Bronson's
camera was running at 12fps) it's not too hard to pin down the equivalent
Zframe.
http://jfkhistory.com/bronson2.gif
Robert Harris
Anthony Marsh
May 20, 2012, 7:02:08 PM5/20/12
to
On 5/20/2012 11:35 AM, John Fiorentino wrote:
> There were no "puncture wounds" that I'm aware of.
>
> Where are you getting this from, Fetzer??
>
>
I don't think that we have enough evidence to pin it on Fetzer alone.
> There were no "puncture wounds" that I'm aware of.
>
> Where are you getting this from, Fetzer??
>
>
Maybe just a Fetzerite.
Anthony Marsh
May 20, 2012, 8:57:36 PM5/20/12
to
> the shots fired at the occupants of JFK�s parade car they left out the
> SS guards and their car tailgating it. This carried over to the WC and
> was not questioned by the HSCA. The media followed with its own re-
> enactments that mimicked the Feds example and also left out the guards
> & their car.
>
> The creation of the suspicion that the guards had something to do with
> the attack was created by government investigators& the media who
> was not questioned by the HSCA. The media followed with its own re-
> enactments that mimicked the Feds example and also left out the guards
> & their car.
>
> The creation of the suspicion that the guards had something to do with
> left the guards out of re-enactment analysis processes.
>
> Since the official reports were made public the media has gone to
> great lengths to convince the public JFK, Connally& Tague were all
>
> Since the official reports were made public the media has gone to
> victims of a rifle attack conducted by a single assassin: Lee Harvey
> Oswald by presenting the Presidential auto as if it were all alone
> traveling down Elm Street when it came under attack while the public
> knows better. Why are the guards& their car being avoided, could a
> Oswald by presenting the Presidential auto as if it were all alone
> traveling down Elm Street when it came under attack while the public
> rear sniper have a clear line of sight to JFK with his guards right
> behind him and does a trajectory from JFK to his rear pass through the
> guards are major questions that have not been addressed nor answered.
>
> At the urging of a couple of research friends of mine I may put
> together a video demonstration of all this. A visit to Pat Speer�s
> behind him and does a trajectory from JFK to his rear pass through the
> guards are major questions that have not been addressed nor answered.
>
> At the urging of a couple of research friends of mine I may put
> website should suffice for most as he has assembled a good timeline&
> visuals of all the federal filmed re-enactments and the several
> surveys, changing trajectories and different placement of the shots.
> Par Speer doesn�t address why the guards& their car were left out of
> visuals of all the federal filmed re-enactments and the several
> surveys, changing trajectories and different placement of the shots.
> prior scientific processes regarding simulating the attack.
>
> I am posting this and all prior comments because the government
> officials who created this problem are mostly dead and gone. The new
> government officials are taking the heat for what their predecessors
> created yet it�s within that loop where the problem needs to be and
>
> I am posting this and all prior comments because the government
> officials who created this problem are mostly dead and gone. The new
> government officials are taking the heat for what their predecessors
> can be corrected.
>
> Once a truthful and accurate re-enactment is conducted (with all
> elements present during the attack on JFK& entourage 22 November
>
> Once a truthful and accurate re-enactment is conducted (with all
> 1963, specifically, replica JFK parade car& Queen Mary with actor
> stand-ins flanked by 4 motorcycle riders) and the public is assured
> with visuals that:
>
> (1) A rear assassin had a constant or sporadic opportunity to shoot at
> JFK.
> (2) A rear assassin�s line of sight was not blocked by JFK�s guards&
> with visuals that:
>
> (1) A rear assassin had a constant or sporadic opportunity to shoot at
> JFK.
> their car the entire attack
> (3) None of the guards were involved in the gunfire on JFK, his
> entourage, his parade car and damage sustained in Dealey Plaza and to
> James Tague.
>
> Until this is done in the JFK case the public has every right to
> suspect or reject the
> hard evidence and reject the official explanation of the crime because
> what�s been presented to the public is no different that analyzing the
> (3) None of the guards were involved in the gunfire on JFK, his
> entourage, his parade car and damage sustained in Dealey Plaza and to
> James Tague.
>
> Until this is done in the JFK case the public has every right to
> suspect or reject the
> hard evidence and reject the official explanation of the crime because
> Titanic disaster& leaving out the iceberg or analyzing the Challenger
> disaster and omitting the fuel tank& its rocket boosters. It wouldn�t
> be accurate or honest& once the public became educated and aware of
> the dishonest approach& presentation the public has every right to
> reject it as fraudulent.
>
> If any or all media documentaries are fronted by government operatives
> (as some suspect) is it really that hard to be accurate in the re-
> enactments? Have those folks considered hiring the people that
> analyzed why the Challenger blew apart or hiring the man who found
> Titanic to sort out what happened on Elm Street almost 50 years ago as
> it pertains to a rear assassin?
>
> As it stands now, if a high school or college student gave a
> presentation of the attack in Dealey Plaza and wanted to demonstrate
> to his/her audience with visuals just how close the guards came to
> being victims that day they'd have nothing to show because those
> highly competent government& media invcestigators left the guards&
> their car out of the scientific analysis processes.
>
> This needs to be fixed.
>
Silly. Is that all you're worried about, the SS guards were CLOSE to
>
> If any or all media documentaries are fronted by government operatives
> (as some suspect) is it really that hard to be accurate in the re-
> enactments? Have those folks considered hiring the people that
> analyzed why the Challenger blew apart or hiring the man who found
> Titanic to sort out what happened on Elm Street almost 50 years ago as
> it pertains to a rear assassin?
>
> As it stands now, if a high school or college student gave a
> presentation of the attack in Dealey Plaza and wanted to demonstrate
> to his/her audience with visuals just how close the guards came to
> being victims that day they'd have nothing to show because those
> highly competent government& media invcestigators left the guards&
> their car out of the scientific analysis processes.
>
> This needs to be fixed.
>
being shot? Of course not. You want either to show that they
accidentally blocked some hypothetical shot from somewhere or
intentionally were placed that way to block shots.
You desperate want to make a mountain out of a molehill as if that very
act indicates conspiracy.
drummist1965
May 21, 2012, 8:55:02 AM5/21/12
to
Anthony Marsh
May 21, 2012, 10:41:19 PM5/21/12
to
On 5/20/2012 5:13 PM, Robert Harris wrote:
> In article<4fb8...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
> Anthony Marsh<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5/19/2012 8:08 PM, Robert Harris wrote:
>>> Hill jumped from the running board in direct reaction to the shot at frame
>>> 285. And in fact, he told the WC that he thought JFK first reacted at the
>>> same time that he jumped. He obviously, didn't realize that JFK had been
>>> hit earlier. If he had, he would have been on the pavement much earlier.
>>>
>>> This video examines his actions and his statements related to this issue.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
>>>
>>> Robert Harris
>>>
>>
>> Pathetic. Prove EXACTLY when Hill jumped off the running board.
>
>
> I already did that. Hill jumped at the equivalent of Zapruder frame,
> 299-300.
>
Imagination, not proof.
> In article<4fb8...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>,
> Anthony Marsh<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5/19/2012 8:08 PM, Robert Harris wrote:
>>> Hill jumped from the running board in direct reaction to the shot at frame
>>> 285. And in fact, he told the WC that he thought JFK first reacted at the
>>> same time that he jumped. He obviously, didn't realize that JFK had been
>>> hit earlier. If he had, he would have been on the pavement much earlier.
>>>
>>> This video examines his actions and his statements related to this issue.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
>>>
>>> Robert Harris
>>>
>>
>> Pathetic. Prove EXACTLY when Hill jumped off the running board.
>
>
> I already did that. Hill jumped at the equivalent of Zapruder frame,
> 299-300.
>
> He can be seen descending to the pavement in the Bronson film. This is a
> relatively poor copy, from the Groden video, but I talked with Gary Mack
> who has a much better copy and by counting back from frames that match
> with certain Zapruder frames, (at a ratio of 1.5 to 1, since Bronson's
> camera was running at 12fps) it's not too hard to pin down the equivalent
> Zframe.
>
> http://jfkhistory.com/bronson2.gif
>
he thinks it shows. And how did he prove the Bronson film was shot at 12
FPS? That's not a standard speed.
>
>
> Robert Harris
claviger
May 22, 2012, 11:28:55 AM5/22/12
to
On May 20, 10:35 am, "John Fiorentino" <jefiorent...@optimum.net>
wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/93b79f3500f060c7/6ea84dbffc6784a0?lnk=gst&q=gawler%27s+claviger#6ea84dbffc6784a0
wrote:
> There were no "puncture wounds" that I'm aware of.
>
> Where are you getting this from, Fetzer??
>
> John F.
Facial Wounds
>
> Where are you getting this from, Fetzer??
>
> John F.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/93b79f3500f060c7/6ea84dbffc6784a0?lnk=gst&q=gawler%27s+claviger#6ea84dbffc6784a0
claviger
May 22, 2012, 11:29:05 AM5/22/12
to
> There were no "puncture wounds" that I'm aware of.
>
> Where are you getting this from, Fetzer??
>
> John F.
Injuries to Face
>
> Where are you getting this from, Fetzer??
>
> John F.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/a27a28889f9261f4/601b6a3f312f9de1?lnk=gst&q=gawler%27s+claviger#601b6a3f312f9de1
markusp
May 22, 2012, 2:15:24 PM5/22/12
to
On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
> Injuries to Face
Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
Here's a question: Thanks to Steve Barber's discovery of the skull
fragment flying forward within the limo directly after the headshot, could
it be possible that smaller pieces of bone or metal fragments flew into
Connally's jumpseat, and were essentially bounced back into his face?
Concerning those facial wounds -- should we expect to see the fragments of
whatever caused them to show up on an X-ray? I'm also wondering how
embalming fluid could run out of them? Maybe John Canal can answer that.
If they filled the skull with plaster, do they then fill the rest of the
skull with fluid? Something about seeing embalming fluid emanating from
the facial wounds doesn't register correctly.
Thanks!
~Mark
> Injuries to Face
Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
Here's a question: Thanks to Steve Barber's discovery of the skull
fragment flying forward within the limo directly after the headshot, could
it be possible that smaller pieces of bone or metal fragments flew into
Connally's jumpseat, and were essentially bounced back into his face?
Concerning those facial wounds -- should we expect to see the fragments of
whatever caused them to show up on an X-ray? I'm also wondering how
embalming fluid could run out of them? Maybe John Canal can answer that.
If they filled the skull with plaster, do they then fill the rest of the
skull with fluid? Something about seeing embalming fluid emanating from
the facial wounds doesn't register correctly.
Thanks!
~Mark
claviger
May 22, 2012, 8:51:06 PM5/22/12
to
On May 22, 1:15 pm, markusp <markina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
> > Injuries to Face
>
> Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
Howard Donahue was convinced the first shot miss caused bullet fragments
> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
> > Injuries to Face
>
> Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
and pavement particles to pepper the head and face of the President,
causing him to exclaim "My God, I'm hit!" He thinks JFK was turned to the
right waving at the crowd when this happened.
> Here's a question: Thanks to Steve Barber's discovery of the skull
> fragment flying forward within the limo directly after the headshot, could
> it be possible that smaller pieces of bone or metal fragments flew into
> Connally's jumpseat, and were essentially bounced back into his face?
> Concerning those facial wounds -- should we expect to see the fragments of
> whatever caused them to show up on an X-ray?
jawbone, and teeth.
> I'm also wondering how embalming fluid could run out of them? Maybe John
> Canal can answer that.
> If they filled the skull with plaster, do they then fill the rest of the
> skull with fluid? Something about seeing embalming fluid emanating from
> the facial wounds doesn't register correctly.
the body.
Anthony Marsh
May 22, 2012, 8:50:23 PM5/22/12
to
Anthony Marsh
May 23, 2012, 10:10:47 AM5/23/12
to
On 5/22/2012 8:51 PM, claviger wrote:
> On May 22, 1:15 pm, markusp<markina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
>>> Injuries to Face
>>
>> Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
>
> Howard Donahue was convinced the first shot miss caused bullet fragments
> and pavement particles to pepper the head and face of the President,
> causing him to exclaim "My God, I'm hit!" He thinks JFK was turned to the
> right waving at the crowd when this happened.
>
Physically impossible.
> On May 22, 1:15 pm, markusp<markina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
>>> Injuries to Face
>>
>> Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
>
> Howard Donahue was convinced the first shot miss caused bullet fragments
> and pavement particles to pepper the head and face of the President,
> causing him to exclaim "My God, I'm hit!" He thinks JFK was turned to the
> right waving at the crowd when this happened.
>
claviger
Oct 25, 2016, 7:42:32 PM10/25/16
to
On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 at 9:10:47 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 5/22/2012 8:51 PM, claviger wrote:
> > On May 22, 1:15 pm, markusp<markina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
> >>> Injuries to Face
> >>
> >> Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
> >
> > Howard Donahue was convinced the first shot miss caused bullet fragments
> > and pavement particles to pepper the head and face of the President,
> > causing him to exclaim "My God, I'm hit!" He thinks JFK was turned to the
> > right waving at the crowd when this happened.
>
> Physically impossible.
Costella Combined Edit Frames (updated 2006)
> On 5/22/2012 8:51 PM, claviger wrote:
> > On May 22, 1:15 pm, markusp<markina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
> >>> Injuries to Face
> >>
> >> Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
> >
> > Howard Donahue was convinced the first shot miss caused bullet fragments
> > and pavement particles to pepper the head and face of the President,
> > causing him to exclaim "My God, I'm hit!" He thinks JFK was turned to the
> > right waving at the crowd when this happened.
>
> Physically impossible.
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z188.jpg
Anthony Marsh
Oct 26, 2016, 5:21:12 PM10/26/16
to
from the street?
mainframetech
Oct 26, 2016, 8:27:05 PM10/26/16
to
On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 7:42:32 PM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 at 9:10:47 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> > On 5/22/2012 8:51 PM, claviger wrote:
> > > On May 22, 1:15 pm, markusp<markina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
> > >>> Injuries to Face
> > >>
> > >> Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
> > >
> > > Howard Donahue was convinced the first shot miss caused bullet fragments
> > > and pavement particles to pepper the head and face of the President,
> > > causing him to exclaim "My God, I'm hit!" He thinks JFK was turned to the
> > > right waving at the crowd when this happened.
> >
> > Physically impossible.
>
Not much chance of that. But there was a point at Bethesda that Humes
> On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 at 9:10:47 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> > On 5/22/2012 8:51 PM, claviger wrote:
> > > On May 22, 1:15 pm, markusp<markina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:29:05 AM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
> > >>> Injuries to Face
> > >>
> > >> Claviger, do you have an idea how those wounds happened on JFK's face?
> > >
> > > Howard Donahue was convinced the first shot miss caused bullet fragments
> > > and pavement particles to pepper the head and face of the President,
> > > causing him to exclaim "My God, I'm hit!" He thinks JFK was turned to the
> > > right waving at the crowd when this happened.
> >
> > Physically impossible.
>
and Boswell were working on the body BEFORE with their scalpels and may
have slipped while cutting the scalp. They were in a big hurry.
Chris
slats
Oct 26, 2016, 9:58:49 PM10/26/16
to
Not true. The Muchmore film shows us he wasn't even close to saving
Kennedy. He was about even with the left front tire of the Queen Mary when
the head shot occurred.
http://s12.postimg.org/iriqrjs8t/jjj.jpg
Kennedy. He was about even with the left front tire of the Queen Mary when
the head shot occurred.
http://s12.postimg.org/iriqrjs8t/jjj.jpg
Anthony Marsh
Oct 27, 2016, 4:11:24 PM10/27/16
to
> Chris
>
Robert Harris
Oct 27, 2016, 4:34:36 PM10/27/16
to
Hill was not truthful when he said he immediately jumped to
the pavement in response to the first (audible) shot.
Like pretty much everyone else, he didn't recognize that
noise as a gunshot, and obviously, thought JFK was clowning
around when he raised his arms into the air. This is why he
went into a depression, bordering on suicide. He realized
that had he identified that early shot and reacted
immediately, he might have saved the President.
What finally provoked him to jump, was the shot at frame 285.
He was off the running board almost exactly one second after
that shot.
The key to understanding Hill is his original report in which
he stated that he was looking to his left at a small group in
the grass, when that shot was fired. He NEVER looked to his
left during all the frames up to about 247, when we lose
sight of him, or in the Altgens photo at 255.
But in that photo, we can see that he has turned a
considerable distance to his left in the half second since
247 and is on track to be turned directly toward Brehm, Hill,
Moorman and Babushka lady, just before 285.
This video explains:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
Robert Harris
the pavement in response to the first (audible) shot.
Like pretty much everyone else, he didn't recognize that
noise as a gunshot, and obviously, thought JFK was clowning
around when he raised his arms into the air. This is why he
went into a depression, bordering on suicide. He realized
that had he identified that early shot and reacted
immediately, he might have saved the President.
What finally provoked him to jump, was the shot at frame 285.
He was off the running board almost exactly one second after
that shot.
The key to understanding Hill is his original report in which
he stated that he was looking to his left at a small group in
the grass, when that shot was fired. He NEVER looked to his
left during all the frames up to about 247, when we lose
sight of him, or in the Altgens photo at 255.
But in that photo, we can see that he has turned a
considerable distance to his left in the half second since
247 and is on track to be turned directly toward Brehm, Hill,
Moorman and Babushka lady, just before 285.
This video explains:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08P2R2l5T8
Robert Harris
claviger
Oct 27, 2016, 4:38:29 PM10/27/16
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sounds. He moved with the first sound he heard. Many witnesses claim the
last two loud sounds were close together. The car he was chasing was
moving not standing still. He almost fell down trying to climb on the
Limousine.
Anthony Marsh
Oct 27, 2016, 8:46:25 PM10/27/16
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the running board, but was called back as the limo had already sped up
by then.
Hill admitted that he had had some alcoholic drinks the night before.
mainframetech
Oct 28, 2016, 12:43:59 PM10/28/16
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Chris
Jason Burke
Oct 28, 2016, 12:44:11 PM10/28/16
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One minor problem.
There was no shot at 285.
slats
Oct 28, 2016, 7:56:05 PM10/28/16
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Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:58121855$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu:
Of course he tried, but "Clint Hill was not slow to react" is demonstably
untrue. Hill vexes CTers when he says that no shots came from the front,
and he vexes LNers when he says he doesn't believe the SBT.
I sympathize with his post-assassination personal ordeals, but I find it
strange and borderline unseemly that he signs photos of himself from that
day. Not sure if he makes $ when he does so.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clint-Hill-signed-autograph-8x10-
photo-/262655398607?hash=item3d277b52cf:g:pXoAAOSwknJX0cyT
news:58121855$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu:
untrue. Hill vexes CTers when he says that no shots came from the front,
and he vexes LNers when he says he doesn't believe the SBT.
I sympathize with his post-assassination personal ordeals, but I find it
strange and borderline unseemly that he signs photos of himself from that
day. Not sure if he makes $ when he does so.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clint-Hill-signed-autograph-8x10-
photo-/262655398607?hash=item3d277b52cf:g:pXoAAOSwknJX0cyT
Steve Barber
Oct 28, 2016, 11:56:10 PM10/28/16
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On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:38:29 PM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
talking about his looking to his right upon hearing the second shot. The
first shot he heard was what caused him to look at the president which
would be the 2nd shot. In the Zapruder film, he is looking at the
president as he said he was when the "firecracker" sound was heard and
when the president's arms jerk upwards. What I have always found
disturbing about Hill's reaction(s)and other agents who said they saw the
president reacting is, why didn't they react to seeing his arms in the
position they were in upon hearing the shot that hit him in the back? That
was an extremely odd position he was in with both elbows splayed outward,
and then leaning to the right. What in the world were those
agents--including Hill--all doing during the 4 seconds between the back
shot and the fatal shot?
claviger
Oct 28, 2016, 11:56:18 PM10/28/16
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Anthony Marsh
Oct 29, 2016, 11:17:02 AM10/29/16
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Anthony Marsh
Oct 29, 2016, 11:17:16 AM10/29/16
to
He took his foot off the gas as he turned his head to look back.
What I call his Rosemary Woods moment.
Anthony Marsh
Oct 29, 2016, 6:28:33 PM10/29/16
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On 10/28/2016 7:56 PM, slats wrote:
> Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:58121855$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu:
>
>> On 10/26/2016 9:58 PM, slats wrote:
>>> Not true. The Muchmore film shows us he wasn't even close to saving
>>> Kennedy. He was about even with the left front tire of the Queen Mary
>>> when the head shot occurred.
>>>
>>> http://s12.postimg.org/iriqrjs8t/jjj.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> OK, but at least he tried. A second SS agent also started to jump off
>> the running board, but was called back as the limo had already sped up
>> by then.
>>
>> Hill admitted that he had had some alcoholic drinks the night before.
>
>
> Of course he tried, but "Clint Hill was not slow to react" is demonstably
> untrue. Hill vexes CTers when he says that no shots came from the front,
> and he vexes LNers when he says he doesn't believe the SBT.
>
He blamed himself for the JFK assassination because he said he reacted
> Anthony Marsh <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:58121855$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu:
>
>> On 10/26/2016 9:58 PM, slats wrote:
>>> Not true. The Muchmore film shows us he wasn't even close to saving
>>> Kennedy. He was about even with the left front tire of the Queen Mary
>>> when the head shot occurred.
>>>
>>> http://s12.postimg.org/iriqrjs8t/jjj.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> OK, but at least he tried. A second SS agent also started to jump off
>> the running board, but was called back as the limo had already sped up
>> by then.
>>
>> Hill admitted that he had had some alcoholic drinks the night before.
>
>
> Of course he tried, but "Clint Hill was not slow to react" is demonstably
> untrue. Hill vexes CTers when he says that no shots came from the front,
> and he vexes LNers when he says he doesn't believe the SBT.
>
too late. I don't blame him. He said it about himself.
Anthony Marsh
Oct 29, 2016, 7:48:55 PM10/29/16
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>
>
>
claviger
Oct 29, 2016, 7:49:39 PM10/29/16
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that long to reach the Limousine if he left on the first shot. According
to the Zapruder film the shots were almost equally apart. However, many
witnesses said the last two shots were closer together that the first two.
So if Hill reacts to the 2nd shot and the 3rd shot is 1.5 seconds after,
there is no way Hill can reach the Limousine in time to do any good at
shielding the President. His priority was shield the First Lady. He
would have to cover them both the best he could if no other SSA reacted at
the same time to shield the President. Several witnesses did not hear the
first shot. Some heard it but did not realize it was a deadly sound.
There was a lot of crowd noise and the sound of motorcycles rumbling
behind the Limousine. Several backfires came from the motorcycles
overheating from going such a slow speed. They were designed for high
speed acceleration not constant 12 mph low speed.
Anthony Marsh
Oct 29, 2016, 7:50:14 PM10/29/16
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On 10/28/2016 11:56 PM, Steve Barber wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:38:29 PM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 8:58:49 PM UTC-5, slats wrote:
>>> Not true. The Muchmore film shows us he wasn't even close to saving
>>> Kennedy. He was about even with the left front tire of the Queen Mary when
>>> the head shot occurred.
>>>
>>> http://s12.postimg.org/iriqrjs8t/jjj.jpg
>>
>> He did not hear the first loud pop. Several witnesses only heard two loud
>> sounds. He moved with the first sound he heard. Many witnesses claim the
>> last two loud sounds were close together. The car he was chasing was
>> moving not standing still. He almost fell down trying to climb on the
>> Limousine.
>
> He couldn't have moved with the first shot that he heard, unless you are
Hill said it took him a couple of seconds to react to the first shot he
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:38:29 PM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 8:58:49 PM UTC-5, slats wrote:
>>> Not true. The Muchmore film shows us he wasn't even close to saving
>>> Kennedy. He was about even with the left front tire of the Queen Mary when
>>> the head shot occurred.
>>>
>>> http://s12.postimg.org/iriqrjs8t/jjj.jpg
>>
>> He did not hear the first loud pop. Several witnesses only heard two loud
>> sounds. He moved with the first sound he heard. Many witnesses claim the
>> last two loud sounds were close together. The car he was chasing was
>> moving not standing still. He almost fell down trying to climb on the
>> Limousine.
>
> He couldn't have moved with the first shot that he heard, unless you are
heard.
> talking about his looking to his right upon hearing the second shot. The
> first shot he heard was what caused him to look at the president which
> would be the 2nd shot. In the Zapruder film, he is looking at the
> president as he said he was when the "firecracker" sound was heard and
> when the president's arms jerk upwards. What I have always found
> disturbing about Hill's reaction(s)and other agents who said they saw the
> president reacting is, why didn't they react to seeing his arms in the
> position they were in upon hearing the shot that hit him in the back? That
But Ready did start to jump off the running board and was called back by
Bennet.
When the shots rang out, Hill rushed forward and ??? in a scene that would
become iconic ??? leapt onto the president???s car in an effort to shield
him and the first lady from the bullets. Mr. Ready, too, prepared to
jump. But just as the third shot was fired, and as his driver veered to
avoid hitting Hill, Mr. Ready was ordered to stay in place.
???Because of where he was positioned, he didn???t have a chance really to
react or respond to the president,??? Hill said in an interview.
???I know that it was devastating to Jack that he was unable to do
anything,??? Hill continued. ???But he went on. .???.???. You could always
rely on Jack.???
mainframetech
Oct 29, 2016, 8:10:31 PM10/29/16
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better chance at a shot by slowing down.
Chris
mainframetech
Oct 29, 2016, 8:10:51 PM10/29/16
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that strike. The back wound bullet was proven to have never passed
through JFK proving that the throat wound was an entry.
Chris
claviger
Oct 30, 2016, 9:26:32 AM10/30/16
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On Saturday, October 29, 2016 at 10:17:16 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 10/28/2016 12:43 PM, mainframetech wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:38:29 PM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 8:58:49 PM UTC-5, slats wrote:
> >>> Not true. The Muchmore film shows us he wasn't even close to saving
> >>> Kennedy. He was about even with the left front tire of the Queen Mary when
> >>> the head shot occurred.
> >>>
> >>> http://s12.postimg.org/iriqrjs8t/jjj.jpg
> >>
> >> He did not hear the first loud pop. Several witnesses only heard two loud
> >> sounds. He moved with the first sound he heard. Many witnesses claim the
> >> last two loud sounds were close together. The car he was chasing was
> >> moving not standing still. He almost fell down trying to climb on the
> >> Limousine.
> >
> > Around that time the limo came almost to a stop. Greer hit the brakes.
>
> On 10/28/2016 12:43 PM, mainframetech wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:38:29 PM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 8:58:49 PM UTC-5, slats wrote:
> >>> Not true. The Muchmore film shows us he wasn't even close to saving
> >>> Kennedy. He was about even with the left front tire of the Queen Mary when
> >>> the head shot occurred.
> >>>
> >>> http://s12.postimg.org/iriqrjs8t/jjj.jpg
> >>
> >> He did not hear the first loud pop. Several witnesses only heard two loud
> >> sounds. He moved with the first sound he heard. Many witnesses claim the
> >> last two loud sounds were close together. The car he was chasing was
> >> moving not standing still. He almost fell down trying to climb on the
> >> Limousine.
> >
> > Around that time the limo came almost to a stop. Greer hit the brakes.
>
> Not true. Both brakes do not come on.
> He took his foot off the gas as he turned his head to look back.
> What I call his Rosemary Woods moment.
One of the break lights came on. That can happen if he just tapped the
> He took his foot off the gas as he turned his head to look back.
> What I call his Rosemary Woods moment.
break pedal.
Steve Barber
Oct 30, 2016, 2:43:56 PM10/30/16
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"consider" it. That's a stupid and ridiculous, as well as ludicrous
conspiracy theory and has absolutely ZERO weight to it.
Steve Barber
Oct 30, 2016, 2:45:16 PM10/30/16
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certain as to how you reach that figure. If I understand you correctly,
why would it take Hill nearly 10 seconds to reach the limousine that was
only 5 feet away and traveling at the most, 11 MPH? Also, the Zapruder
film rules out the last two shots being closer together. The second shot
has been determined to have been fired at circa Z 222, it being the shot
that Clint Hill describes causing the president to react. The fatal shot
came 4+ seconds after the 2nd shot as the Zapruder film clearly reveals.
Anthony Marsh
Oct 30, 2016, 10:01:33 PM10/30/16
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about the SS car.
It's BRAKE not break.
Both tail lights come on when you hit the brakes.
Greer did not hit the brakes. Both tail lights did not come on.
Anthony Marsh
Oct 31, 2016, 10:29:17 AM10/31/16
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making things up from his imagination. His scenario is full of flaws.
> certain as to how you reach that figure. If I understand you correctly,
> why would it take Hill nearly 10 seconds to reach the limousine that was
> only 5 feet away and traveling at the most, 11 MPH? Also, the Zapruder
8 MPH. Clint Hill lost that momentum when his foot touched the ground. So
he didn't have to run just 8 feet, he had to run 15 feet and the limo was
starting to pull away. He just barely caught it.
> film rules out the last two shots being closer together. The second shot
> has been determined to have been fired at circa Z 222, it being the shot
it.
> that Clint Hill describes causing the president to react. The fatal shot
> came 4+ seconds after the 2nd shot as the Zapruder film clearly reveals.
>
Again, Clint Hill admitted that he did not react immediately. Stop
holding that against him. Just be a Christian and learn for forgive.
mainframetech
Oct 31, 2016, 10:33:47 AM10/31/16
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remember that it was proven to have been altered, especially at the frame
313 point, and around that area. It was proven by a witness that saw the
original film, and by independent analyses.
Chris
mainframetech
Oct 31, 2016, 10:34:30 AM10/31/16
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behind you, now you've simply said a bunch of biased opinions, which carry
no weight here. C'mon, I'm sure you can prove your point...give it a
shot. Otherwise, you've basically said nothing.
You see, many people, including myself and some witnesses in the case,
have seen a bullet hole in the right forehead/temple area. You should be
able to see it too, if you expend just a little effort.
Take the following photo and ENLARGE it and look at the right forehead
just under the hair hanging down. I've shown that to random people
outside of this forum and everyone sees right away that it's a bullet hole
without my giving ANY clues.
Let me know what you see, thanks!
Chris
Anthony Marsh
Oct 31, 2016, 3:37:56 PM10/31/16
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about anatomy and think the foot is the same thing as the head.
The forehead is given a different name than the temple because it is a
different bone.
> Take the following photo and ENLARGE it and look at the right forehead
> just under the hair hanging down. I've shown that to random people
> outside of this forum and everyone sees right away that it's a bullet hole
> without my giving ANY clues.
>
Anthony Marsh
Oct 31, 2016, 3:38:03 PM10/31/16
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Not even the WC was brave enough to do that.
>>> to the Zapruder film the shots were almost equally apart. However, many
>>> witnesses said the last two shots were closer together that the first two.
>>> So if Hill reacts to the 2nd shot and the 3rd shot is 1.5 seconds after,
>>> there is no way Hill can reach the Limousine in time to do any good at
>>> shielding the President. His priority was shield the First Lady. He
>>> would have to cover them both the best he could if no other SSA reacted at
>>> the same time to shield the President. Several witnesses did not hear the
>>> first shot. Some heard it but did not realize it was a deadly sound.
>>> There was a lot of crowd noise and the sound of motorcycles rumbling
>>> behind the Limousine. Several backfires came from the motorcycles
>>> overheating from going such a slow speed. They were designed for high
>>> speed acceleration not constant 12 mph low speed.
>>
>> The fatal shot was not fired 1.5 after the second shot, so I am not
>> certain as to how you reach that figure. If I understand you correctly,
>> why would it take Hill nearly 10 seconds to reach the limousine that was
>> only 5 feet away and traveling at the most, 11 MPH? Also, the Zapruder
>> film rules out the last two shots being closer together. The second shot
>> has been determined to have been fired at circa Z 222, it being the shot
>> that Clint Hill describes causing the president to react. The fatal shot
>> came 4+ seconds after the 2nd shot as the Zapruder film clearly reveals.
>
>
>
> when using the Z-film as a measuring tool for timing and distance,
> remember that it was proven to have been altered, especially at the frame
> 313 point, and around that area. It was proven by a witness that saw the
> original film, and by independent analyses.
>
> Chris
>
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