Question for the few here who believe HB&F weren't hallucinating about the head shot entry location.
John Canal
"slightly above the EOP"...and the replications of F8, as well as the
facts that a trail of opacities can be seen on the original lateral x-ray
extending from near the EOP and that a channel-like laceration through the
brain reportedly BEGAN at the tip of the occipital lobe, strongly support
that finding.
Then, if you agree with HB&F on that, then I'd think that you must also
agree that the bullet penetrated JFK's scalp roughly 3-4 inches above his
hairline (3-4 inches is the typical distance one's EOP is above their
hairline).
Ok, so my question to you is, "If the bullet penetrated his scalp only 3-4
inches above his hairline, then why do the BOH photos (including
F3--officially nos. 42 & 43) show the entry quite a bit (roughly 6-7
inches) further above his hairline?"
I asked the question to you, but think I have the answer--although I'm
open to other explanations:
Just like the autopsists and morticians said, the scalp was stretched.
Sure, I fully agree, it sounds farfetched that the scalp could have been
stretched 3 inches (in the area from the EOP to his hairline), but, if you
can offer me a better explanation for the aforementioned discrepancy, I'm
all ears.
Dr. McAdams, BTW, was good enough to add my scalp stretching theory to his
website under his section on the head wounds.
Two last tidbits: 1) Five local morticians stated (thinking they were
going on the record with what they said) the scalp could possibly have
been stretched 3 inches, and 2) the density of JFK's hair in the area from
the EOP to his hairline appears to be sparser, suggesting the scalp may
have been stretched in that area.
Again, I'm open to more feasible sounding explanations...Whiskey Joe? Dr.
Rahn? Barb?
Thanks.
John Canal
WBurg...@aol.com
I still believe the Doug Horne theory of two autopsies has not been fully
vetted. I am suspicious on any xrays or photos of back of heads and I also
think the entry of JFK's body to the morque in a shpping casket has just
been "swept under the rug" as "impossible." I also believe the most recent
information in "Legacy of Secrecy" regarding the policy of controlling the
body of anyone assassinated, be it ambassador or head of state, has not
been touched upon on this forum, as well as the rest of that book's
revelations about an impending "coup" in Cuba.
Burgundy
Anthony Marsh
> On May 3, 9:58 pm, John Canal<John_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> HB&F (and other eyewitnesses) said they saw the entry in the skull
>> "slightly above the EOP"...and the replications of F8, as well as the
>> facts that a trail of opacities can be seen on the original lateral x-ray
>> extending from near the EOP and that a channel-like laceration through the
>> brain reportedly BEGAN at the tip of the occipital lobe, strongly support
>> that finding.
>>
>> Then, if you agree with HB&F on that, then I'd think that you must also
>> agree that the bullet penetrated JFK's scalp roughly 3-4 inches above his
>> hairline (3-4 inches is the typical distance one's EOP is above their
>> hairline).
>>
>> Ok, so my question to you is, "If the bullet penetrated his scalp only 3-4
>> inches above his hairline, then why do the BOH photos (including
First, never rely on witnesses. Second, photographic evidence trumps
witnesses. Finally, never rely on witnesses.
> Burgundy
>
Brokedad
John;
First off, the "EOP" entry point references that point on the skull at
which the bullet struck.
The entry point into the scalp was somewhat lower, and as stated and as
shown in the autopsy photographs, was just above the lower edge of the
hairline at the back of the head and slightly right of center.
The bullet "tunnelled" upwards* (from the point of entry into the scalp)
through the soft tissues at the base of the neck to the point of impact
with the skull.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0036a.htm
*Relative to when the head is held vertically erect, in reality, the
bullet was on a downward and slightly right to left trajectory.
With this in mind, as well as the "angle of attack" at which the bullet
struck the skull (creating a 15mm length penetration), anyone who has
acquired the most basic understanding of plane geometry can figure the
approximate position of JFK's head at the time of impact.
And, it most assuredly WAS NOT the position as seen in Z313/aka the Second
Shot, which by the way is responsible for the "Cowlick" entry wound.
In event that it is of any assistance, the bullet responsible for this
wound also penetrated through the coat of JFK, having struck just below
the lower edge of the coat collar and penetrated the coat and then the
inner liner on an acute angle prior to exiting and striking JFK just above
the lower edge of the hairline.
Tom Purvis
Brokedad
>
> *Relative to when the head is held vertically erect, in reality, the
> bullet was on a downward and slightly right to left trajectory.
>
> With this in mind, as well as the "angle of attack" at which the bullet
> struck the skull (creating a 15mm length penetration), anyone who has
> acquired the most basic understanding of plane geometry can figure the
> approximate position of JFK's head at the time of impact.
>
> And, it most assuredly WAS NOT the position as seen in Z313/aka the Second
> Shot, which by the way is responsible for the "Cowlick" entry wound.
>
> In event that it is of any assistance, the bullet responsible for this
> wound also penetrated through the coat of JFK, having struck just below
> the lower edge of the coat collar and penetrated the coat and then the
> inner liner on an acute angle prior to exiting and striking JFK just above
> the lower edge of the hairline.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/humes.htm
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. This exhibit is a grey suit coat stated to
have been worn by the President on the day of his death. Situated to
the right of the midline high in the back portion of the coat is a
defect, one margin of which is semicircular.
Situated above it just below the collar is an additional defect.
It is our opinion that the lower of these defects corresponds
essentially with the point of entrance of the missile at Point C on
Exhibit 385.
Commander HUMES - That is approximately correct, sir. This defect, I
might say, continues on through the material.
Attached to this garment is the memorandum which states that one half
of the area around the hole which was presented had been removed by
experts, I believe, at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and also
that a control area was taken from under the collar, so it is my
interpretation that this defect at the top of this garment is the
control area taken by the Bureau, and that the reason the lower defect
is not more circle or oval in outline is because a portion of that
defect has been removed apparently for physical examinations.
Mr. SPECTER - How about the upper one of the collar you have
described, does that go all the way through?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; it goes all the way through. It is not--
wait a minute, excuse me it is not so clearly a puncture wound as the
one below.
Mr. SPECTER - Does the upper one go all the way through in the same
course?
Commander HUMES - No.
Mr. SPECTER - Through the inner side as it went through the outer
side?
Commander HUMES - No, in an irregular fashion.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Sorry there "J.J."! Your "interpretation" is incorrect!
The hole in the coat which is located just to the right of center and
just below the lower edge of the coat collar is where the third shot/
aka EOP entry bullet/aka stationing 4+95/aka directly in front of
James Altgens location, bullet struck and penetrated through the coat
on an obtuse angle prior to exiting the coat and striking JFK in the
lower edge of the hairline, slightly right of center of the head.
The "control" happens to have been taken from UNDER the collar of the
coat, did not penetrate the coat as well as the liner, and it did not
test ("+") for copper during the spectrographic examination of JFK's
clothing.
Whereas both the lower hole (CE399 entry point) as well as the coat
collar entry point both DID test POSITIVE for copper.
And for those who have no idea as to "of what" I speak!
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0449a.htm
It is this, which places the third/last/final shot impact some 30-feet
farther down Elm St. than the Z313/aka second shot impact.
Of course, it always helps if one has in their possession the actual
SS assassination re-enactment Survey Plats and survey notes.
Tom
John Canal
Brokedad says...
>
>On May 5, 6:59=EF=BF=BDpm, Brokedad <temptypock...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On May 3, 7:58 pm, John Canal <John_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > HB&F (and other eyewitnesses) said they saw the entry in the skull
>> > "slightly above the EOP"...and the replications of F8, as well as the
>ay
>> > extending from near the EOP and that a channel-like laceration through =
>the
>> > brain reportedly BEGAN at the tip of the occipital lobe, strongly suppo=
>rt
>> > that finding.
>>
>> > Then, if you agree with HB&F on that, then I'd think that you must also
>is
>> > hairline (3-4 inches is the typical distance one's EOP is above their
>> > hairline).
>>
>3-4
>> > inches above his hairline, then why do the BOH photos (including
>> > F3--officially nos. 42 & 43) show the entry quite a bit (roughly 6-7
>> > inches) further above his hairline?"
>>
>> > I asked the question to you, but think I have the answer--although I'm
>> > open to other explanations:
>>
>> > Just like the autopsists and morticians said, the scalp was stretched.
>n
>> > stretched 3 inches (in the area from the EOP to his hairline), but, if =
>you
>> > can offer me a better explanation for the aforementioned discrepancy, I=
>'m
>> > all ears.
>>
>> > Dr. McAdams, BTW, was good enough to add my scalp stretching theory to =
>his
>> > website under his section on the head wounds.
>>
>> > Two last tidbits: 1) Five local morticians stated (thinking they were
>> > going on the record with what they said) the scalp could possibly have
>rom
>> > the EOP to his hairline appears to be sparser, suggesting the scalp may
>> > have been stretched in that area.
>>
>r.
>> > Rahn? Barb?
>>
>> > Thanks.
>>
>> > John Canal
>>
>> John;
>>
>> First off, the "EOP" entry point references that point on the skull at
>> which the bullet struck.
>>
>> The entry point into the scalp was somewhat lower, and as stated and as
>> shown in the autopsy photographs, was just above the lower edge of the
>> hairline at the back of the head and slightly right of center.
>>
>> The bullet "tunnelled" upwards* (from the point of entry into the scalp)
>> through the soft tissues at the base of the neck to the point of impact
>> with the skull.
>>
>> http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol...
>>
>> *Relative to when the head is held vertically erect, in reality, the
>> bullet was on a downward and slightly right to left trajectory.
>>
>> With this in mind, as well as the "angle of attack" at which the bullet
>> struck the skull (creating a 15mm length penetration), anyone who has
>> acquired the most basic understanding of plane geometry can figure the
>> approximate position of JFK's head at the time of impact.
>>
>d
>> Shot, which by the way is responsible for the "Cowlick" entry wound.
>>
>> In event that it is of any assistance, the bullet responsible for this
>> wound also penetrated through the coat of JFK, having struck just below
>> the lower edge of the coat collar and penetrated the coat and then the
>
>The hole in the coat which is located just to the right of center and
>just below the lower edge of the coat collar is where the third shot/
>aka EOP entry bullet/aka stationing 4+95/aka directly in front of
>James Altgens location, bullet struck and penetrated through the coat
>on an obtuse angle prior to exiting the coat and striking JFK in the
>lower edge of the hairline, slightly right of center of the head.
>
>The "control" happens to have been taken from UNDER the collar of the
>coat, did not penetrate the coat as well as the liner, and it did not
>test ("+") for copper during the spectrographic examination of JFK's
>clothing.
>
>Whereas both the lower hole (CE399 entry point) as well as the coat
>collar entry point both DID test POSITIVE for copper.
>
>
>And for those who have no idea as to "of what" I speak!
>
>9a.htm
>
>It is this, which places the third/last/final shot impact some 30-feet
>farther down Elm St. than the Z313/aka second shot impact.
>
>Of course, it always helps if one has in their possession the actual
>SS assassination re-enactment Survey Plats and survey notes.
Perhaps you'd be better off with a copy of the autopsy report?
So, which is it, Tom, do you think, based on your studies of the record,
that the autopsists reported only one shot to the head, with an entry near
the EOP, because they were in on a cover-up, because they were
collectively blind in one eye and had trouble seeing out of the other, or
because of other reasons?
John Canal
Brokedad
>
> Sorry there "J.J."! �Your "interpretation" is incorrect!
>
> The hole in the coat which is located just to the right of center and
> just below the lower edge of the coat collar is where the third shot/
> aka EOP entry bullet/aka stationing 4+95/aka directly in front of
> James Altgens location, bullet struck and penetrated through the coat
> on an obtuse angle prior to exiting the coat and striking JFK in the
> lower edge of the hairline, slightly right of center of the head.
>
> The "control" happens to have been taken from UNDER the collar of the
> coat, did not penetrate the coat as well as the liner, and it did not
> test ("+") for copper during the spectrographic examination of JFK's
> clothing.
>
> Whereas both the lower hole (CE399 entry point) as well as the coat
> collar entry point both DID test POSITIVE for copper.
>
> And for those who have no idea as to "of what" I speak!
>
>
> It is this, which places the third/last/final shot impact some 30-feet
> farther down Elm St. than the Z313/aka second shot impact.
>
> Of course, it always helps if one has in their possession the actual
> SS assassination re-enactment Survey Plats and survey notes.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
P.P.S.
In event that it is of any correlation of information, the "control"
sample location for the upper back/shoulder/aka CE399 entry, was taken
from the left side of the coat approximately along the seam area which is
covered/protected when the arm/sleeve is in the downward position.
The "control" for the collar entry was taken from UNDER the collar.
Both of which was done in order to obtain "CONTROL" samples which would
have been exposed to the least amount of potential contamination by
foreign substances.
Always enjoyable to reveal some of the "magical" means which were employed
by the WC in order to confuse those who search for the facts.
Did you actually believe "THE SHOT THAT MISSED" BS of the WC???????
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0068a.htm
Anthony Marsh
> On May 5, 6:59�pm, Brokedad<temptypock...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On May 3, 7:58 pm, John Canal<John_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> HB&F (and other eyewitnesses) said they saw the entry in the skull
>>> "slightly above the EOP"...and the replications of F8, as well as the
>>> facts that a trail of opacities can be seen on the original lateral x-ray
>>> extending from near the EOP and that a channel-like laceration through the
>>> brain reportedly BEGAN at the tip of the occipital lobe, strongly support
>>> that finding.
>>
>>> Then, if you agree with HB&F on that, then I'd think that you must also
>>> agree that the bullet penetrated JFK's scalp roughly 3-4 inches above his
>>> hairline (3-4 inches is the typical distance one's EOP is above their
>>> hairline).
>>
>>> Ok, so my question to you is, "If the bullet penetrated his scalp only 3-4
>>> inches above his hairline, then why do the BOH photos (including
What the Hell kind of wacko theory is that?
You have a bullet enter the jacket and then hit the head?
Stupid.
You think the jacket alone could cause such a deflection?
Brokedad
>
> > Sorry there "J.J."! �Your "interpretation" is incorrect!
>
> > The hole in the coat which is located just to the right of center and
> > just below the lower edge of the coat collar is where the third shot/
> > aka EOP entry bullet/aka stationing 4+95/aka directly in front of
> > James Altgens location, bullet struck and penetrated through the coat
> > on an obtuse angle prior to exiting the coat and striking JFK in the
> > lower edge of the hairline, slightly right of center of the head.
>
> What the Hell kind of wacko theory is that?
> You have a bullet enter the jacket and then hit the head?
> Stupid.
> You think the jacket alone could cause such a deflection?
>
>
>
> > The "control" happens to have been taken from UNDER the collar of the
> > coat, did not penetrate the coat as well as the liner, and it did not
> > test ("+") for copper during the spectrographic examination of JFK's
> > clothing.
>
> > Whereas both the lower hole (CE399 entry point) as well as the coat
> > collar entry point both DID test POSITIVE for copper.
>
> > And for those who have no idea as to "of what" I speak!
>
>
> > It is this, which places the third/last/final shot impact some 30-feet
> > farther down Elm St. than the Z313/aka second shot impact.
>
> > Of course, it always helps if one has in their possession the actual
> > SS assassination re-enactment Survey Plats and survey notes.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
There is most assuredly someone here who is "stupid" in regards to fhe
forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical evidence.
Along with much, much more, I might add.
Ever figure out how to get that extra bullet loaded in the Carcano along
with a full clip?
Barbara has stated that she would be more than glad to demonstrate it too
you.