Glenn V. Fell for Lies About Georgia Voting Law

[John McAdams]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/30/biden-falsely-claims-new-georgia-law-ends-voting-hours-early/

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Steve M. Galbraith]

The actual bill in its entirety (98 pages) can be read here:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20527915-sb-202-as-passed If you
view any and every attempt to limit fraud as a potential abuse or as a
cover to repress voting then I can see how you'd be against this. Add the
history, a Southern state and all of that "baggage" comes with it. It
seems obvious that had Republicans/Trump won the state (presidential
race/senate races) or black Georgians supported the GOP (or were split)
these probably wouldn't have passed. As the old saying goes, what you see
depends on where you sit.

[John McAdams]

On 4 Apr 2021 02:16:47 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Will you admit that Democrats would oppose these laws because they
think the status quo benefits them?

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Right, and they're making a bigger deal out of this in order to gin up
support for H.R. 1, the federal election law they want passed. And they
want to use that to eliminate the filibuster since the Republicans in the
Senate will use a filibuster to derail H.R.1. This isn't just about - or
even mostly - the specific Georgia law. It's has larger connections.

In any case, the status quo here appears to be on the side of angels,
i.e., defending black voting rights. The GOP looks like they wish to
disenfranchise black Americans. The appearances - unfairly presented by an
inept and corrupt media - look dreadful to the Republicans. Politics ain't
beanbag. Humans have been living in tribes for what? 100,000 years? We
used to kill one another; now we do more advanced things. But we're still
tribal, aren't we?

The bill is complicated and easy to demagogue. Which is what Biden is
doing (Jim Crow on steroids?).

[Bud]

I thought it was interesting that Delta`s CEO was making noise against
the bill. Try to get on one of their planes without ID.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/delta-ceo-blasts-georgia-voting-law-after-backlash-on-social-media.html

[John Corbett]

On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 5:55:48 PM UTC-4, Steve M. Galbraith wrote:

Elimination of the filibuster is the primary goal of the Democrats because
if they can accomplish that, it will open the floodgates for legislative
action that will do irreparable harm to this country. Packing the Supreme
court, statehood for DC and PR, Medicare for All. Democrats expect to lose
the House in 2022 and maybe the Senate. They know they have a small window
of opportunity to ramrod their far left agenda through Congress without a
single Republican vote but to do that, they need to eliminate the
filibuster. Fortunately we have Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema on record
as opposing elimination of the filibuster and Diane Feinstein and Jon
Tester have also expressed reservations about it. Democrats need all 50 of
their senators on board to eliminate the filibuster and hopefully they
aren't going to get it.

The filibuster has been an important legislative tool and it has been used
by both parties to put the brakes on the most ambitious plans of the
other. It is needed now more than ever. If Democrats are able to pack the
court or grant statehood to DC and PR, those cannot be undone no matter
what the outcome of the coming elections is.

[Glenn V.]

The only one who's got suckered into anything is you, John. Read up on
exactly what is in that bill in Georgia. Try to understand, for example,
what it means that Raffenspergers office is taken out of the process and
pay attention to how it will be done in the future.

Btw, what Trump said about Charlottesville was of course directed to the
same people he declared he "loved", on January 6th. The white
supremacists; the Proud Boys and the rest of the insurrectionists at the
Capitolium. As you well know, some of those he earlier had told to "stand
down, stand by". They know exactly how to read Trump - and Trump knows
exactly how to address them. You should stop playing games about this.

No GOP representative of Congress has yet answered why 360 bills are now
being introduced by the GOP around the US, after an election where no
voter fraud happened anywhere, of any scale whatsoever. No fraud, no
irregularities, no matter how many times you repeat those lies. Btw, John
are you defending the Big Lie? You know, the one that says the election
"was stolen"?

You know, the one that separates authoritarians and fascists from true
democrats? Do you, or anyone else here support the Big Lie? The one, also,
that so many scared GOP members of Congress support? Those scared of
Donald Trump - who doesn't give a damn about democracy?

But there are indeed quite a few ex-GOP conservatives, true defenders of
democracy, who have spoken out about what is going on in the US.

Max Boot, just yesterday:

"In Georgia, Delta Air Lines issued a statement opposing a package of
voting rules that, among other things, imposes new barriers to voting by
mail, eliminates mobile voting centers, puts a cap on the number of drop
boxes and shortens the time to return absentee ballots. Republicans
retaliated. Now, when businesses oppose those efforts and exercise their
First Amendment rights, which Republicans ordinarily consider
“fundamental” and worthy of protection, they seek to use
the power of the government to punish those whose speech they dislike. It
seems they do not like the First Amendment any more than the 14th or the
15th when it comes to robust access to the ballot for voters they suspect
will support their opponents. Their march to bully-boy authoritarianism
continues as they prove once again that they are no friends of
multiracial, robust democracy."

Yes, those republicans retaliated, for one reason alone. They are all
scared sh*t of Donald Trump, these cowards. I'm happy to provide these
lists of ex-GOP republicans, who have all left since they understand what
an incredibly dangerous path the GOP has entered, since the day they all
bowed down to Donald Trumps authoritarian idiocy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Trump_movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign

Someone summed it up quite brilliant:

"Republicans will be anti-corporate in word, pro-billionaire in deed;
blue-collar on the airwaves, protective of offshore tax shelters in
practice; the party of law and order - that insists 2020 was stolen."

This time US democracy was saved by the Judiciary. Now it's time for you,
Bud and the rest to make a choice. Either you continue to walk into the
future head deep in the past, b*tt first. Or you start defending US
democracy. Not a right/left question. No joke. Not a
petty-winning-arguments-in-a-debate thing.

It's a question of saving US democracy. Pretty soon it just might be too
late.

[Bud]

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 3:40:38 PM UTC-4, Glenn V. wrote:
> On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 2:14:24 AM UTC+2, John McAdams wrote:
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/30/biden-falsely-claims-new-georgia-law-ends-voting-hours-early/
> >
> > .John
> > -------------------------------
> > http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
> The only one who's got suckered into anything is you, John. Read up on
> exactly what is in that bill in Georgia. Try to understand, for example,
> what it means that Raffenspergers office is taken out of the process and
> pay attention to how it will be done in the future.

Make your arguments, stop alluding to things you don`t show.

> Btw, what Trump said about Charlottesville was of course directed to the
> same people he declared he "loved", on January 6th. The white
> supremacists; the Proud Boys and the rest of the insurrectionists at the
> Capitolium. As you well know, some of those he earlier had told to "stand
> down, stand by". They know exactly how to read Trump - and Trump knows
> exactly how to address them. You should stop playing games about this.

You should stop pretending that these fringe groups represent the core
of Trump`s support.

> No GOP representative of Congress has yet answered why 360 bills are now
> being introduced by the GOP around the US,

I can. Millions of Americans have expressed the idea that they aren`t
confident that the election was conducted fairly.

https://americasfreedomfighters.com/bombshell-new-poll/

>after an election where no
> voter fraud happened anywhere, of any scale whatsoever.

There has never been a political election in this country of any size
where there was no voter fraud.

> No fraud, no
> irregularities, no matter how many times you repeat those lies.

The whole election was irregular.

> Btw, John
> are you defending the Big Lie? You know, the one that says the election
> "was stolen"?
>
> You know, the one that separates authoritarians and fascists from true
> democrats? Do you, or anyone else here support the Big Lie? The one, also,
> that so many scared GOP members of Congress support? Those scared of
> Donald Trump - who doesn't give a damn about democracy?

Good to see you on board with democracy. Since the Georgia Voting Bill
was the product of democracy you should have no complaints.

> But there are indeed quite a few ex-GOP conservatives, true defenders of
> democracy, who have spoken out about what is going on in the US.
>
> Max Boot, just yesterday:

Who?

> "In Georgia, Delta Air Lines issued a statement opposing a package of
> voting rules that, among other things, imposes new barriers to voting by
> mail, eliminates mobile voting centers, puts a cap on the number of drop
> boxes and shortens the time to return absentee ballots.

Has it been shown that any of these things cause undue hardship?

Interesting that the left will soon be trying to implement something
where you have to show you`ve been vaccinated to do certain things (like
get on Delta planes). You will have to show something in order to board a
plane, but they don`t want anyone to have to show something to vote.

> Republicans
> retaliated. Now, when businesses oppose those efforts and exercise their
> First Amendment rights, which Republicans ordinarily consider
> “fundamental” and worthy of protection, they seek to use
> the power of the government to punish those whose speech they dislike. It
> seems they do not like the First Amendment any more than the 14th or the
> 15th when it comes to robust access to the ballot for voters they suspect
> will support their opponents. Their march to bully-boy authoritarianism
> continues as they prove once again that they are no friends of
> multiracial, robust democracy."

Left wing groups tried to pressure Coca-Cola to come out against this
bill. Apparently the left is no friend to democracy.

> Yes, those republicans retaliated, for one reason alone. They are all
> scared sh*t of Donald Trump, these cowards.

They are scared of the millions of people who support Trump. As well
they should be.

> I'm happy to provide these
> lists of ex-GOP republicans, who have all left since they understand what
> an incredibly dangerous path the GOP has entered, since the day they all
> bowed down to Donald Trumps authoritarian idiocy:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Trump_movement
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign
>
> Someone summed it up quite brilliant:
>
> "Republicans will be anti-corporate in word, pro-billionaire in deed;

If the Democrats are so anti-billionaire, why are there so many
billionaires working on their behalf? Why does Big Tech act on behalf of
the left? Why is the mainstream media nothing but a propaganda arm of the
Democratic Party?

> blue-collar on the airwaves, protective of offshore tax shelters in
> practice; the party of law and order

How many police unions came out for Biden?

>- that insists 2020 was stolen."
>
> This time US democracy was saved by the Judiciary.

The Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

> Now it's time for you,
> Bud and the rest to make a choice. Either you continue to walk into the
> future head deep in the past, b*tt first. Or you start defending US
> democracy.

All those 360 GOP bills you mentioned are part of the democratic
process. Why are you so anti-democratic?

>Not a right/left question. No joke. Not a
> petty-winning-arguments-in-a-debate thing.
>
> It's a question of saving US democracy.

It was a question of saving America. The question has been answered (for
now), America is not to be saved, it is to be reshaped into a leftists
vision that is doomed to fail.

[John Corbett]

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 3:40:38 PM UTC-4, Glenn V. wrote:
>

> "In Georgia, Delta Air Lines issued a statement opposing a package of
> voting rules that, among other things, imposes new barriers to voting by
> mail, eliminates mobile voting centers, puts a cap on the number of drop
> boxes and shortens the time to return absentee ballots.

I've been voting since 1972 and I've never once voted by mail, used a drop
box, or a mobile voting center. None of these "incoveniences" has ever
prevented me from voting. Why does it prevent Democrats from voting?

[Chuck Schuyler]

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 2:40:38 PM UTC-5, Glenn V. wrote:
> On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 2:14:24 AM UTC+2, John McAdams wrote:
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/30/biden-falsely-claims-new-georgia-law-ends-voting-hours-early/
> >
> > .John
> > -------------------------------
> > http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

> The only one who's got suckered into anything is you, John. Read up on
> exactly what is in that bill in Georgia. Try to understand, for example,
> what it means that Raffenspergers office is taken out of the process and
> pay attention to how it will be done in the future.
>
> Btw, what Trump said about Charlottesville was of course directed to the
> same people he declared he "loved", on January 6th. The white
> supremacists; the Proud Boys and the rest of the insurrectionists at the
> Capitolium. As you well know, some of those he earlier had told to "stand
> down, stand by". They know exactly how to read Trump - and Trump knows
> exactly how to address them. You should stop playing games about this.
>
> No GOP representative of Congress has yet answered why 360 bills are now
> being introduced by the GOP around the US, after an election where no
> voter fraud happened anywhere, of any scale whatsoever. No fraud, no
> irregularities, no matter how many times you repeat those lies. Btw, John
> are you defending the Big Lie? You know, the one that says the election
> "was stolen"?

Pure gaslighting. The American public was treated to four non-stop years
of a claim from DEMOCRATS that the 2016 election was stolen. Trump
colluded with Russia.

>
> You know, the one that separates authoritarians and fascists from true
> democrats? Do you, or anyone else here support the Big Lie? The one, also,
> that so many scared GOP members of Congress support? Those scared of
> Donald Trump - who doesn't give a damn about democracy?
>
> But there are indeed quite a few ex-GOP conservatives, true defenders of
> democracy, who have spoken out about what is going on in the US.
>
> Max Boot, just yesterday:
>
> "In Georgia, Delta Air Lines issued a statement opposing a package of
> voting rules that, among other things, imposes new barriers to voting by
> mail, eliminates mobile voting centers, puts a cap on the number of drop
> boxes and shortens the time to return absentee ballots. Republicans
> retaliated. Now, when businesses oppose those efforts and exercise their
> First Amendment rights, which Republicans ordinarily consider
> “fundamental” and worthy of protection, they seek to use
> the power of the government to punish those whose speech they dislike. It
> seems they do not like the First Amendment any more than the 14th or the
> 15th when it comes to robust access to the ballot for voters they suspect
> will support their opponents. Their march to bully-boy authoritarianism
> continues as they prove once again that they are no friends of
> multiracial, robust democracy."

More gaslighting. MANY states have a more restrictive set of rules in
place than Georgia regarding mail-in ballots, etc. yet Max Boot continues
to keep his last name firmly up his ass.

P.S. Delta requires you show a valid ID to board an airplane. Shouldn't an
absentee ballot require the verification of a photo ID? Perhaps Max Boot
feels blacks are too stupid to obtain a driver's license. The good 'ol
liberal bigotry of low expectations.

>
> Yes, those republicans retaliated, for one reason alone. They are all
> scared sh*t of Donald Trump, these cowards. I'm happy to provide these
> lists of ex-GOP republicans, who have all left since they understand what
> an incredibly dangerous path the GOP has entered, since the day they all
> bowed down to Donald Trumps authoritarian idiocy:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Trump_movement
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign
>
> Someone summed it up quite brilliant:
>
> "Republicans will be anti-corporate in word, pro-billionaire in deed;
> blue-collar on the airwaves, protective of offshore tax shelters in
> practice; the party of law and order - that insists 2020 was stolen."
>
> This time US democracy was saved by the Judiciary. Now it's time for you,
> Bud and the rest to make a choice. Either you continue to walk into the
> future head deep in the past, b*tt first. Or you start defending US
> democracy. Not a right/left question. No joke. Not a
> petty-winning-arguments-in-a-debate thing.
>
> It's a question of saving US democracy. Pretty soon it just might be too
> late.

https://www.amazon.com/Ruling-Class-Corrupted-America-About/dp/0825305586

The parties are sort of flipping here, Glenn. There is an elite Ruling
Class as identified by Angelo Codvilla so brilliantly in the book I'm
linking to above, and the ruling class transcends the traditional label of
Democrat/Republican. Max Boot was mad he wouldn't have war to support if
Trump got our troops out of the Middle East. One less book for him to
write and hit the DC cocktail circuit.

The Republican party has become the party of the small business owner, the
waitress, the enlisted soldier, the truck driver. The Democratic party has
become the party of the entrenched government white collar worker with
their six-figure guaranteed incomes and generous healthcare packages and
retirement pensions, the corporate media elites, the Hollywood
opinion-shapers, the trans-national businesses like Google and Facebook,
etc. that self-admit to the power to legally switch votes and steer an
election by controlling the flow of information an average voter gets in
their online news feed. The other support for Democrats comes from the new
Marxists who've dressed up the turgid ideas of Engels and Marx under a new
secular religion called Wokeism that seeks to fight the non-existent
problem of "institutional racism" with their own real brand of racism,
ironically labelled as anti-racism. Our colleges have become divorced from
the ideas of free speech and tolerance. Our history is being erased. Our
children are taught in grade-school about gay rights and transgenderism
and that skin color determines your success in this country more than hard
work under the blessings of liberty that have been bestowed upon them.

We in the USA are divided more by class than race nowadays.

By the way, Republicans aren't against a corporation exercising their
rights to speak out on an issue, but it's absurd when this always flows in
one direction. A corporation's primary mission is to maximize profits for
its shareholders--who are probably around 50 percent Dem, 50 percent
Repub--not to take controversial stances that could tick off half of your
customer base. Republicans don't fly Delta? Republicans don't drink Coke?
Republicans don't go to baseball games. Silly.

[John Corbett]

I'm not a Republican but MLB is dead to me this year. I won't got to games
or watch it on TV. That alone won't matter much to MLB but if lots of
people make the same choice, it is going to impact their bottom line. As
Yogi Berra once said, "If people don't want to go to the ballpark, nothing
is going to stop them".

I'm fed up with the politics of woke and the way companies think they all
have to bow down at the altar of political correctness.

[Glenn V.]

Thanks, Bud.

Thanks for signing off on what to me was clear long ago. You don't give a
shit about democracy, which really was never that hard to figure out.

[Glenn V.]

Oh, shit. I missed that that the Democrats are the reason for everything
bad in the US. Marxist's, Hollywood and the Elites are all going to be
destroyed with a little good ol' fascism.

Sorry, I forgot about that. You guys have really thought this through.

[Bud]

Weren`t you the one fretting about Republicans introducing voting bills?
That`s democracy in action.

Leftists don`t give a shit about being hypocritical, and that isn`t very
hard to figure out.

[Chuck Schuyler]

It's Glenn's way or the highway, Bud. Glenn (from Sweden? Am I right about
that?) apparently has this messy democracy thingy figured out, Bud, and
guess what? Your views are out with Glenn. You don't care about democracy,
Glenn does. Off to the reeducation camp for Bud, forced to read Max Boot
books for 25 years.

*IF* the 2020 election WAS crooked in some way, it's the Glenns of the
world--who care about democracy more than you or I--who threw it. They had
to burn down the village to save it.

[John Corbett]

Explain how the newly passed Georgia voting laws are a threat to
democracy. Tell us who they prevent from voting and how. The laws apply
equally to everybody. They don't favor any ethnic group or income class.
Everybody has to follow the same rules. Everybody has the same opportunity
to cast their ballots. If some choose not to make the effort to do so, why
should anybody care about them?

[Glenn V.]

You got that too wrong. So let me explain it to you.

Even elected officials can certainly do things that are not democratic. It
is *not* democratic to suppress voters. It is un-democratic. Democracy
rests on the premise that voters can vote.

Soon your logics will lead you to protect Hitler, too - who was duly
democratically elected, remember?

Was this plain enough for you to understand?

[Bud]

They use race to hide what is really just an effort to keep the voting
laws as lax as they can so they can cheat. Is there any real reason to
believe blacks don`t have ID or can only vote at a certain time of day?
Why haven`t I heard about blacks not being able to get public assistance
because they don`t have ID?

These are the people who are doing everything they can think of to stack
the deck (end the filibuster, make DC and PR states, give illegals the
right to vote, stack the Supreme Court, use Big Tech, the mainstream media
and the FBI as attack dogs for the left, ect), is there any reason to
believe they are not willing to do *anything* to cement their hold on
power?

[Bud]

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 9:10:46 PM UTC-4, Glenn V. wrote:
> Oh, shit. I missed that that the Democrats are the reason for everything
> bad in the US. Marxist's, Hollywood and the Elites are all going to be
> destroyed with a little good ol' fascism.

The left is going to destroy this country, using fascism as a boogey man
to fool the useful idiots.

> Sorry, I forgot about that. You guys have really thought this through.

You clearly haven`t. Focus on what the powers that be tell you to focus
on, the Proud Boys or white privilege while government and the forces of
globalism grab more and more power. They want to tell us what we can
think, what we can drive and what we can eat but it is the Proud Boys that
we should see as a threat. They demonize all the threats to their power
grab, give the word "racism" the magical ability to justify anything they
want to do.

[Glenn V.]

It's Glenn's way or the highway, Bud. Glenn (from Sweden? Am I right about
> that?) apparently has this messy democracy thingy figured out, Bud, and
> guess what? Your views are out with Glenn. You don't care about democracy,
> Glenn does. Off to the reeducation camp for Bud, forced to read Max Boot
> books for 25 years.
>
> *IF* the 2020 election WAS crooked in some way, it's the Glenns of the
> world--who care about democracy more than you or I--who threw it. They had
> to burn down the village to save it.

Amazing how deliberate BS always pops up when authoritarians show their
ugly faces.

Max Boot, eh? Do you want me to quote another hundred, mostly very
prominent ex-GOP members? Strategists, authors, ex-elected state/US
officials, etc., everyone of them. Maybe 500? How about David Frum? Stuart
Stevens? Mike Madrid? Bill Kristol? Tim Miller? Colin Powell? Liz Cheney?
Charlie Sykes? Jennifer Horn? George Conway? Amanda Carpenter? John
Boehner?

Want more?

Simply "elitists"? Or just leftist idiots? The ones most republicans have
supported/agreed with, probably all their lives? No, that's right, I
wouldn't think so.

So quit your pathetic BS about "the foreigner" who has it all figured out.
Or about the "leftists". True conservatives, in droves, would all sign off
on every stand on this that I've taken in these threads. Americans. They
understand that this is not about the usual party politics quibble. You
know, that simplistic way you want to make to be. The reason is crystal
clear; like me and unlike you, they are true democrats who values (US)
democracy above all else and they all see how dangerous Donald Trump with
his Big Lie is to US democracy.

Your ridiculous cheap shot's don't work here, because I will not take no
BS from you or anyone else about this. Discuss the facts, fine with me.

So,

***The 2020 election was not crooked. Not stolen. No fraud and no
irregularities.***

You should stop watching all these rightwing news outlets and talking
heads who are still spreading this *LIE* to get higher numbers. A
disgusting business model, btw. Someone here talked about "millions of
Americans" believe the Big Lie.. Sure, they are fed lies upon lies upon
lies about this. Every hour around the clock. A garden variety of selected
home cooked geniuses are displayed to confirm the lies. It's called brain
washing.

Because it is just that - A LIE. The BIG LIE.

I asked John to provide *evidence* about foul play in the election. He
didn't. Neither will or can you. And neither can those rightwing news
outlets or those talking heads. Dominion is suing some of the worst
perpetrators, more to come. One of Trump's lunatic lawyers tried to defend
herself by stating that "no serious person would believe that I had any
supporting facts to show". And she was partly correct, for the first time.
No serious person ever did. And now she's sued and will pay the price.
Let's see how Giuliani fares.

John is a master at finding evidence as you well know. The reason he's not
providing them about this is simple. There are *NONE* to be found. Zero.
Zilch. I know that John, unlike the Trump lawyer, doesn't want to make a
total fool of himself, silence is better. Nothing exists anywhere that
supports Donald Trumps BIG LIE. Do you understand this? You disagree?
Fine. And simple. Present the evidence and then maybe your postings are
worth reading. I'll be waiting.

Donald Trump is not "colorful", as John suggested. A transparent and poor
excuse for a very, very disturbed human being, in my opinion.

Donald Trump is an epic, pathological liar. +25.000 lies according to the
WP, who kept track. Donald Trump's biggest lie is about an election he
lost, fair and square. But Donald Trump never admits to anything. Never
backs down. Never. He's bailed himself out of everything his entire life.
His dad paid. Banks paid. Civilians have paid the price for him. Small
companies paid. And illegal immigration workers paid.

Women have paid the price, most notably his wife at the time Trump was
running around with porn stars when she was at home with a four months old
son of his. The entire US has no doubt paid for a lot of his (and his
family's) grifting during his presidency. Now his followers are paying.
And trying to bail him out. And he's grifting them too, of course. Had to
pay them back 122 millions. More to come. Never held accountable. Instead
he doubles down and keeps lying.

Why would anyone excuse all of this?

Donald Trump's narcissistic personality disorder prevents him from
understand the damage he's doing by lying about the "stolen election". And
even worse damage is done by those who blindly chose to believe those
lies, and spreading them on. And no, I don't hate Donald Trump. He is a
tragic figure, most probably in dire need of psychological help, as Mary
Trump (a psychologist, who moreover know him far better than his
followers) and other psychologists have suggested. I feel sorry for Donald
Trump.

And why would anyone excuse that the GOP, without a political platform, is
now instead all about power - under Donald Trump, at any price?

As that is exactly what you are doing. Don't you try to blame me for
anything that is getting burned down. You strongly owe that one.

The entire voter suppression question is, in the first place, based on
Trump's BIG LIE. Disagree with him and he will flame you and you're gone,
which certainly every elected local GOP official around the US is
extremely well aware of. So what are they doing? Creating 360 bills about
new voting laws, that's exactly what they are doing to please Donald
Trump. Banana republic methods in its very ugly US version.

Agree with Trump about the "stolen election" and you are not supporting
your democracy. This is the choice.

Shameful.

[Chuck Schuyler]

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 9:03:14 AM UTC-5, Glenn V. wrote:
> It's Glenn's way or the highway, Bud. Glenn (from Sweden? Am I right about
> > that?) apparently has this messy democracy thingy figured out, Bud, and
> > guess what? Your views are out with Glenn. You don't care about democracy,
> > Glenn does. Off to the reeducation camp for Bud, forced to read Max Boot
> > books for 25 years.
> >
> > *IF* the 2020 election WAS crooked in some way, it's the Glenns of the
> > world--who care about democracy more than you or I--who threw it. They had
> > to burn down the village to save it.

> Amazing how deliberate BS always pops up when authoritarians show their
> ugly faces.

My thought exactly.

>
> Max Boot, eh? Do you want me to quote another hundred, mostly very
> prominent ex-GOP members? Strategists, authors, ex-elected state/US
> officials, etc., everyone of them. Maybe 500? How about David Frum? Stuart
> Stevens? Mike Madrid? Bill Kristol? Tim Miller? Colin Powell? Liz Cheney?
> Charlie Sykes? Jennifer Horn? George Conway? Amanda Carpenter? John
> Boehner?

A version of Argumentum ad Populum. Perhaps you are unaware of the
Democrats that have flipped to Republican. Happens all the time.

>
> Want more?
>
> Simply "elitists"?

Elitism as pointed out by author Angelo Codevilla transcends party
affiliation. There is a Ruling Class that knows better than the truck
driver, the waitress, the small business owner, and we're going to have
the "democracy" the Ruling Class wants us to have, good and hard.

>Or just leftist idiots?

Is there any other type?

The ones most republicans have
> supported/agreed with, probably all their lives? No, that's right, I
> wouldn't think so.

I told you...the parties are flipping in some respects.

>
> So quit your pathetic BS about "the foreigner" who has it all figured
out.

ABBA was underrated. And I don't think you have it figured out at all. You
do. You APPARENTLY feel its okay for Trump (and other conservatives) to
have their social media accounts shut down, etc. Dangerous ideas and all,
says Glenn.

> Or about the "leftists". True conservatives, in droves, would all sign off
> on every stand on this that I've taken in these threads.

A No True Scotsman fallacy. Nice.

Americans. They
> understand that this is not about the usual party politics quibble. You
> know, that simplistic way you want to make to be. The reason is crystal
> clear; like me and unlike you, they are true democrats who values (US)
> democracy above all else and they all see how dangerous Donald Trump with
> his Big Lie is to US democracy.

Ah, yes. The old, "This time is different" argument for stifling dissent.
Trump's BIG LIES need to be censored by Big Tech. Democracy's survival
depends on it. Who's the authoritarian, Glenn? Take the beam out of your
eye.

>
> Your ridiculous cheap shot's don't work here, because I will not take no
> BS from you or anyone else about this. Discuss the facts, fine with me.

Wow. Touchy. Look it up in the dictionary, and Glenn's picture is there.

>
> So,
>
> ***The 2020 election was not crooked. Not stolen. No fraud and no
> irregularities.***

But the 2016 election was? Is that one of your "facts" you'd like to
discuss? Didn't failed Georgia governor candidate Stacey Abrams claim the
last election was stolen from her? Didn't Dems back her claim?

>
> You should stop watching all these rightwing news outlets and talking
> heads who are still spreading this *LIE* to get higher numbers.

Here's an idea Glenn the Democrat can get behind: Let's BAN FOX news and
the right-wing websites. Let's BAN Trump from social media. Some of your
colleagues are pressuring cable outlets here to ban conservative stations
and programming from the cable market. Some of your colleagues are
pressuring YouTube to drop conservative videos. College campuses are
swarming with students who are attempting to shut down debate on
contentious issues. Books, movies, etc. are being banned nationwide, and
it's coming from YOUR side of the opinion isle, not MY side.

A
> disgusting business model, btw. Someone here talked about "millions of
> Americans" believe the Big Lie.. Sure, they are fed lies upon lies upon
> lies about this. Every hour around the clock. A garden variety of selected
> home cooked geniuses are displayed to confirm the lies. It's called brain
> washing.
>
> Because it is just that - A LIE. The BIG LIE.

Hence the attempt from The Left to ban that which they feel is a BIG LIE.
Are you okay with this? How about reeducation camps? Worked on Winston
Smith:

"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all
right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the
victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."

>
> I asked John to provide *evidence* about foul play in the election. He
> didn't. Neither will or can you.

What evidence would you accept? Every election has fraud, period. Was the
fraud in this election enough to get a crooked corpse with dementia who is
on the take with Communist China elected? My gut says yes, but the FACTS
aren't there right now.

And neither can those rightwing news
> outlets or those talking heads. Dominion is suing some of the worst
> perpetrators, more to come. One of Trump's lunatic lawyers tried to defend
> herself by stating that "no serious person would believe that I had any
> supporting facts to show". And she was partly correct, for the first time.
> No serious person ever did. And now she's sued and will pay the price.
> Let's see how Giuliani fares.
>
> John is a master at finding evidence as you well know. The reason he's not
> providing them about this is simple. There are *NONE* to be found. Zero.
> Zilch. I know that John, unlike the Trump lawyer, doesn't want to make a
> total fool of himself, silence is better. Nothing exists anywhere that
> supports Donald Trumps BIG LIE. Do you understand this? You disagree?
> Fine. And simple. Present the evidence and then maybe your postings are
> worth reading. I'll be waiting.

Well here's my take:

There is no compelling evidence that voting machines were manipulated in
some way. The FRAUD--if you will--stems from an unprecedented entry into
the system of absentee ballots that were not accurately checked. When you
consider that around 160 million votes were cast and that Trump lost the
election in a few swing states by 44K votes, it's not unreasonable to
wonder whether this flood of absentee ballots--sent out to voters in some
states in violation of the rules their states' legislatures had
passed--affected the outcome.

>
> Donald Trump is not "colorful", as John suggested. A transparent and poor
> excuse for a very, very disturbed human being, in my opinion.

Yes, in your opinion. I personally found him off-putting in many ways, but
his POLICIES (in my opinion) were rock-solid. No wars, peace agreements
everywhere, a booming economy, rising wages for minorities due to clamping
down on the cheap labor illegal immigrants provide, record low
unemployment for blacks and Hispanics, record stock market gains, rising
home values, consumer confidence off-the-charts high, low unemployment,
low inflation, etc. The rookie Trump EMBARRASSED America's "professional"
diplomatic corps with a series of peace agreements that resulted in Nobel
Peace Prize nominations. That's your "disturbed" human being?

>
> Donald Trump is an epic, pathological liar. +25.000 lies according to the
> WP, who kept track.

Any improvement over the last guy should be heralded.

Donald Trump's biggest lie is about an election he
> lost, fair and square. But Donald Trump never admits to anything. Never
> backs down. Never. He's bailed himself out of everything his entire life.
> His dad paid. Banks paid. Civilians have paid the price for him. Small
> companies paid. And illegal immigration workers paid.
>
> Women have paid the price, most notably his wife at the time Trump was
> running around with porn stars when she was at home with a four months old
> son of his.

Your concern for his ex-wives and kids is touching, but enough of the Gish
Gallop. You don't like Trump. Got it. And you're willing to "save"
democracy by stifling all of these crazy ideas that you think comprise of
the BIG LIES that have all the Hillbillies in Texas and Tennessee voting
for a man you and Max Boot feel is a danger to the world. Sounds like
you're one step away from putting him in an open-top limo and driving him
past the TSBD building with Melania by his side in a pink pants suit.

The entire US has no doubt paid for a lot of his (and his
> family's) grifting during his presidency.

Will the gaslighting ever stop? Does the name Hunter Biden ring a bell?

Now his followers are paying.
> And trying to bail him out. And he's grifting them too, of course. Had to
> pay them back 122 millions. More to come. Never held accountable. Instead
> he doubles down and keeps lying.
>
> Why would anyone excuse all of this?
>
> Donald Trump's narcissistic personality disorder prevents him from
> understand the damage he's doing by lying about the "stolen election". And
> even worse damage is done by those who blindly chose to believe those
> lies, and spreading them on. And no, I don't hate Donald Trump.

Yes, you do hate him. And that's okay.

He is a
> tragic figure, most probably in dire need of psychological help, as Mary
> Trump (a psychologist, who moreover know him far better than his
> followers) and other psychologists have suggested. I feel sorry for Donald
> Trump.
>
> And why would anyone excuse that the GOP, without a political platform, is
> now instead all about power - under Donald Trump, at any price?
>
> As that is exactly what you are doing. Don't you try to blame me for
> anything that is getting burned down. You strongly owe that one.
>
> The entire voter suppression question is, in the first place, based on
> Trump's BIG LIE. Disagree with him and he will flame you and you're gone,
> which certainly every elected local GOP official around the US is
> extremely well aware of. So what are they doing? Creating 360 bills about
> new voting laws, that's exactly what they are doing to please Donald
> Trump. Banana republic methods in its very ugly US version.
>
> Agree with Trump about the "stolen election" and you are not supporting
> your democracy. This is the choice.

Either/or fallacy.
>
> Shameful.

Indeed.

[John Corbett]

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Where's you evidence that any of the
voting regulations recently passed in Georgia and proposed in other states
will prevent any legal voter from casting a ballot?

Voting laws need to strike the proper balance to ensure every eligible
voter is able to cast a ballot while at the same time ensuring that their
legal ballot will not be cancelled out by an illegal one. Reasonable
people can disagree as to where to draw that line but the fact is that
Georgia's new voting laws apply equally to EVERYBODY. They do not
discriminate in anyway. They make the same requirements from the voter
regardless of their ethnicity, gender, or economic status. It is
preposterous to argue that these laws are disenfranchising black people or
any other demographic group.

[Chuck Schuyler]

Yes, it's a form of LEGAL voter fraud. How long until Dems propose The
World gets to vote in our elections? Perhaps each country would vote for
the US President and be allowed a say in the electoral college? We can let
Glenn and Max Boot run the whole operation. I'm sure it would turn out
totally fair. Sound silly? Google it. The idea is out there. Dems have
already proposed letting illegal immigrants openly vote in some elections.
How about a "Legacy Voter" law whereby if you were alive during the Jim
Crow era--and have the correct skin pigmentation--you are allowed to put
your final voting wishes in writing and cast a ballot for the party of
your choosing after you've passed away in perpetuity, you know, to make up
for White privilege and whatnot. Hell, the dead are already voting in
Illinois and Michigan, etc. so legalizing it would allow Glenn to hide
behind the veneer that because it's LEGAL it isn't FRAUDULENT. Conversely,
if you have bad ideas and believe in Trump's BIG LIES (ideas as Glenn has
pointed out I apparently harbor), how about passing a law that says if one
hasn't passed through the Winston Smith school for Political Reeducation
that you can't vote? Sort of a political COVID-19 passport for elections.
A new Poll Tax, run by world experts on democracy that have our best
interests at heart. If you're AGAINST these ideas, you are FOR voter
suppression.

Is there any real reason to
> believe blacks don`t have ID or can only vote at a certain time of day?
> Why haven`t I heard about blacks not being able to get public assistance
> because they don`t have ID?

It's the bigotry of low expectations. Lefties like Glenn and Max Boot
believe blacks are too stupid to get an ID and take one to the polling
place to cast a vote. Showing an idea before boarding an airplane or
attending a Max Boot book signing or entering Sweden? Okay. Showing an ID
to vote? RACIST.

>
> These are the people who are doing everything they can think of to stack
> the deck (end the filibuster, make DC and PR states, give illegals the
> right to vote, stack the Supreme Court, use Big Tech, the mainstream media
> and the FBI as attack dogs for the left, ect), is there any reason to
> believe they are not willing to do *anything* to cement their hold on
> power?

And that includes throwing an election. The Left wants us to believe that
Donald Trump and his policies were so evil, so out-of-bounds, so wrong for
the world, so dangerous for Democracy, etc. that he HAD to go, but that
THEY would never engage in any trickery to get him out of office.
Unbelievable gaslighting from the gang who told us the 2016 election was
fraudulent, and that Trump conspired with Putin to win it illegally.

[Bud]

Do I? Do you think the BLM rioters should be labeled "domestic
terrorists" and hunted down by the state police for their political
violence? Do you think leftists viewpoints should be silenced like the
viewpoints of the right are? What the left is doing is straight out of the
Nazi handbook, yet you have gall to rant about fascism.

>So let me explain it to you.

Please do.

> Even elected officials can certainly do things that are not democratic.

Let me explain something to you. When the GOP proposes legislation this
is part of the democratic process. This is democracy in action, even if
you don`t approve of the proposed measures.

> It
> is *not* democratic to suppress voters. It is un-democratic. Democracy
> rests on the premise that voters can vote.

This is a begged argument, you haven`t shown that anyone is being
prevented from voting because of the Georgia law.

> Soon your logics will lead you to protect Hitler, too - who was duly
> democratically elected, remember?

A little more complicated than that.

But you seem to be flip-flopping on this whole democracy thing.

> Was this plain enough for you to understand?

I understand you fully. You are a leftist and that necessarily means you
are a hypocrite.

[Glenn V.]

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 4:03:14 PM UTC+2, Glenn V. wrote:

Oh, I forgot. Credit where credit is due. My respects to John, who despite
our strong differences on this matter, has not censored one word of what I
have written in any of these postings of mine.

Thanks, John.

[Bud]

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 10:03:14 AM UTC-4, Glenn V. wrote:
> It's Glenn's way or the highway, Bud. Glenn (from Sweden? Am I right about
> > that?) apparently has this messy democracy thingy figured out, Bud, and
> > guess what? Your views are out with Glenn. You don't care about democracy,
> > Glenn does. Off to the reeducation camp for Bud, forced to read Max Boot
> > books for 25 years.
> >
> > *IF* the 2020 election WAS crooked in some way, it's the Glenns of the
> > world--who care about democracy more than you or I--who threw it. They had
> > to burn down the village to save it.
> Amazing how deliberate BS always pops up when authoritarians show their
> ugly faces.
>
> Max Boot, eh? Do you want me to quote another hundred, mostly very
> prominent ex-GOP members? Strategists, authors, ex-elected state/US
> officials, etc., everyone of them. Maybe 500? How about David Frum? Stuart
> Stevens? Mike Madrid? Bill Kristol? Tim Miller? Colin Powell? Liz Cheney?
> Charlie Sykes? Jennifer Horn? George Conway? Amanda Carpenter? John
> Boehner?
>
> Want more?
>
> Simply "elitists"? Or just leftist idiots? The ones most republicans have
> supported/agreed with, probably all their lives? No, that's right, I
> wouldn't think so.
>
> So quit your pathetic BS about "the foreigner" who has it all figured out.
> Or about the "leftists". True conservatives, in droves, would all sign off
> on every stand on this that I've taken in these threads.

That is one of the things I like best about Trump, he shakes up the
status quo. Nobody called out the fake news before he came along, both
sides played the game. Too many people were locked into their comfort
zones, not making waves about things that should be addressed.

> Americans. They
> understand that this is not about the usual party politics quibble. You
> know, that simplistic way you want to make to be. The reason is crystal
> clear; like me and unlike you, they are true democrats who values (US)
> democracy above all else and they all see how dangerous Donald Trump with
> his Big Lie is to US democracy.

The "Big Lie" is what you`ve been fed about Trump. It has been hammered
into you, and you don`t even realize it. Trump was taking on the
Industrial Military complex, he was talking about bring US troops home all
around the globe. *Only* an outsider like Trump could effect real change,
with real lasting results. What we have now is "Obama, The Sequel". The
swamp is back, the powers that be are safe and secure once more.

> Your ridiculous cheap shot's don't work here, because I will not take no
> BS from you or anyone else about this. Discuss the facts, fine with me.
>
> So,
>
> ***The 2020 election was not crooked. Not stolen. No fraud and no
> irregularities.***

Then was does the idea of voter ID get their panties in a bunch?

> You should stop watching all these rightwing news outlets and talking
> heads who are still spreading this *LIE* to get higher numbers. A
> disgusting business model, btw. Someone here talked about "millions of
> Americans" believe the Big Lie.. Sure, they are fed lies upon lies upon
> lies about this. Every hour around the clock. A garden variety of selected
> home cooked geniuses are displayed to confirm the lies. It's called brain
> washing.

The mainstream media has conducted a negative campaign against Trump for
over 5 years. You are the one who has been brain washed, believing what
they told you to believe about Trump. They spent 8 years telling everyone
that Obama was a great President, and the brain washed masses believe it.

> Because it is just that - A LIE. The BIG LIE.
>
> I asked John to provide *evidence* about foul play in the election.

The evidence is that they oppose documented identification to vote.

>He
> didn't. Neither will or can you. And neither can those rightwing news
> outlets or those talking heads. Dominion is suing some of the worst
> perpetrators, more to come. One of Trump's lunatic lawyers tried to defend
> herself by stating that "no serious person would believe that I had any
> supporting facts to show". And she was partly correct, for the first time.
> No serious person ever did. And now she's sued and will pay the price.
> Let's see how Giuliani fares.

You don`t seem to mind the lying Biden did about the Georgia voting bill.

> John is a master at finding evidence as you well know. The reason he's not
> providing them about this is simple. There are *NONE* to be found. Zero.
> Zilch. I know that John, unlike the Trump lawyer, doesn't want to make a
> total fool of himself, silence is better. Nothing exists anywhere that
> supports Donald Trumps BIG LIE. Do you understand this? You disagree?
> Fine. And simple. Present the evidence and then maybe your postings are
> worth reading. I'll be waiting.

They system has to have the trust of the people. To do that you have to
have documented ID to vote, it should be a basic requirement. That this
common sense measure is vehemently opposed shows me all I need to know.

> Donald Trump is not "colorful", as John suggested. A transparent and poor
> excuse for a very, very disturbed human being, in my opinion.
>
> Donald Trump is an epic, pathological liar. +25.000 lies according to the
> WP, who kept track. Donald Trump's biggest lie is about an election he
> lost, fair and square. But Donald Trump never admits to anything. Never
> backs down. Never. He's bailed himself out of everything his entire life.
> His dad paid. Banks paid. Civilians have paid the price for him. Small
> companies paid. And illegal immigration workers paid.
>
> Women have paid the price, most notably his wife at the time Trump was
> running around with porn stars when she was at home with a four months old
> son of his. The entire US has no doubt paid for a lot of his (and his
> family's) grifting during his presidency. Now his followers are paying.
> And trying to bail him out. And he's grifting them too, of course. Had to
> pay them back 122 millions. More to come. Never held accountable. Instead
> he doubles down and keeps lying.
>
> Why would anyone excuse all of this?

It is the meaningless rant of a Trump hater.

But one thing I notice about the things in your rant, not one thing you
mentioned is something he did with his powers as President. I can`t think
of a single thing that Trump did as President that I disagreed with (well,
one, when he came out for the $2,000 stimulus check rather than the $600
in the bill. And maybe he should have pardoned the "insurrectionists").
But most of what he did as President were things I would have done if I
were President. And it doesn`t get any better than that with a elected
official. The Trump haters can manufacture reasons to dislike him all day
for all I care, when it came to Executive Action he gets straight "A"s
from me.

> Donald Trump's narcissistic personality disorder prevents him from
> understand the damage he's doing by lying about the "stolen election". And
> even worse damage is done by those who blindly chose to believe those
> lies, and spreading them on. And no, I don't hate Donald Trump. He is a
> tragic figure, most probably in dire need of psychological help, as Mary
> Trump (a psychologist, who moreover know him far better than his
> followers) and other psychologists have suggested. I feel sorry for Donald
> Trump.

I feel sorry for this country for what has happened by not re-electing
Trump. I`m sure there are a lot of swing voters who went for Biden that
feel the same way. And those numbers will grow.

> And why would anyone excuse that the GOP, without a political platform, is
> now instead all about power - under Donald Trump, at any price?

The "price" is an American President who puts the country`s interests
first.

> As that is exactly what you are doing. Don't you try to blame me for
> anything that is getting burned down. You strongly owe that one.

Leftist policy is to blame on that one.

> The entire voter suppression question is, in the first place, based on
> Trump's BIG LIE. Disagree with him and he will flame you and you're gone,
> which certainly every elected local GOP official around the US is
> extremely well aware of. So what are they doing? Creating 360 bills about
> new voting laws, that's exactly what they are doing to please Donald
> Trump. Banana republic methods in its very ugly US version.

Why does the requirement of valid ID to vote scare the left so much?

> Agree with Trump about the "stolen election" and you are not supporting
> your democracy. This is the choice.

There is a solution. Conduct elections where I can feel confidence that
the results were arrived at legitimately. This mean ID.

> Shameful.

Shameful that the left has to invent claims of racism in order to stop a
common sense measure like requiring ID to vote.

[John Corbett]

Absolutely. That is what attracted me to Trump as well as lots of
Republican rank and file voters. Before Trump, when the mainstream media
went on the attack, Republican "leaders" would got into defensive mode.
Not Trump. You hit him, he hits back with no apologies. It's looking like
we have another fighter in Ron DeSantis. The media is already going into
attack mode on him as evidence by 60 Minutes shameful and deceitful hit
piece. That one has blown up in their faces. Now they are the ones on the
defensive. Most of the mainstream media are scum. There's no point in
trying to please them.

And they continue to believe the crap about the Georgia election laws
disenfranchising black people. Nobody is getting disenfranchised. White
people have to follow the same rules as black people.

> > Because it is just that - A LIE. The BIG LIE.
> >
> > I asked John to provide *evidence* about foul play in the election.
> The evidence is that they oppose documented identification to vote.
> >He
> > didn't. Neither will or can you. And neither can those rightwing news
> > outlets or those talking heads. Dominion is suing some of the worst
> > perpetrators, more to come. One of Trump's lunatic lawyers tried to defend
> > herself by stating that "no serious person would believe that I had any
> > supporting facts to show". And she was partly correct, for the first time.
> > No serious person ever did. And now she's sued and will pay the price.
> > Let's see how Giuliani fares.
> You don`t seem to mind the lying Biden did about the Georgia voting bill.
> > John is a master at finding evidence as you well know. The reason he's not
> > providing them about this is simple. There are *NONE* to be found. Zero.
> > Zilch. I know that John, unlike the Trump lawyer, doesn't want to make a
> > total fool of himself, silence is better. Nothing exists anywhere that
> > supports Donald Trumps BIG LIE. Do you understand this? You disagree?
> > Fine. And simple. Present the evidence and then maybe your postings are
> > worth reading. I'll be waiting.
> They system has to have the trust of the people. To do that you have to
> have documented ID to vote, it should be a basic requirement. That this
> common sense measure is vehemently opposed shows me all I need to know.

Most people have a valid ID. If they don't have a driver's license, it's
very easy to get a valid state ID card. I have no sympathy for those who
can't be bothered to go get one.

We have three justices on the Supreme Court that wouldn't be there if
Hillary had been the one to appoint them. We would now have a 6-3 liberal
majority on the Court instead of a 6-3 conservative majority (well 5.5-3.5
since we can't count on Roberts).

> > Donald Trump's narcissistic personality disorder prevents him from
> > understand the damage he's doing by lying about the "stolen election". And
> > even worse damage is done by those who blindly chose to believe those
> > lies, and spreading them on. And no, I don't hate Donald Trump. He is a
> > tragic figure, most probably in dire need of psychological help, as Mary
> > Trump (a psychologist, who moreover know him far better than his
> > followers) and other psychologists have suggested. I feel sorry for Donald
> > Trump.
> I feel sorry for this country for what has happened by not re-electing
> Trump. I`m sure there are a lot of swing voters who went for Biden that
> feel the same way. And those numbers will grow.

We need the Republican Senate to be obstructionists for two years and
hopefully take back at least one house of Congress. I'm fine with divided
government. It keeps the federal government from doing really stupid
stuff.

[Glenn V.]

Impressive list of avoiding the question.

I'll try again.

Where are the *evidence* which backs up Trump's Big Lie?

Still waiting.

[BT George]

John never censors. ...Unless you're *truly* abusing some privilege he
will let you speak your mind. That's definitely where I think many on
today's Left in particular could learn.

[Chuck Schuyler]

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 9:03:14 AM UTC-5, Glenn V. wrote:

Here's an example of election fraud, Glenn. Legal fraud? Unfortunately,
yes. The tech giants buried a bombshell story in the waning days of the
election, and lied through their teeth that the Hunter Biden laptop
could've been Russian disinformation to "throw" the election to Trump, all
aided and abetted by the mainstream media, whom must've have known through
their own sources that the laptop was legit. Burying this story was the
equivalent of an illegal "in kind" donation to Sleepy Joe Biden. Rather
than be umpires, the the liberal press and the tech giants decided what we
should and shouldn't know.

And guess what the laptop shows?

Among other shocking things, it shows nice guy Joe Biden is potentially
directly on the "take" with China in a pay-to-play bribery scandal that
benefits his whole family. Glenn: "But Trump!"

Wouldn't that story have been nice on the front page of the NYTs? Is this
election fraud?

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2021/04/08/confirmed-the-laptop-belongs-to-hunter-biden-n2587623

[ajohnstone]

I've stayed out of this discussion mainly because in the run-up early
voting i saw lines and lines of voters waiting for hours to cast their
ballot.

I assure you that in the UK, this commitment would not have happened.

We are accustomed, due to the ample number of polling places, to walk-in
and walk-out, having our names marked off by the temporary-employed
electoral officials from the voters roll, updated by a mail-out to all
households for those eligible to vote to register some months previous and
also frequently and regularly amended, for the main reason that loan
agencies use it to determine the addresses and length of residence of
those applying for credit. As members of the EU, we did have the different
rules for EU-born residents. They could vote in local city and county
elections, the Scottish and Welsh parliaments and the European Parliament
but not in the national General Election. The counting of the votes is
centralized regionally and again it is by paid voluntary staff.

There are some anomalies due to history. Irish Republican citizens and
those from Malta and Cyprus can vote in the UK General Election if
resident, regardless of their foreign passports.

I was genuinely impressed by the average American voters determination to
cast his or her ballot.

But it is not rocket-science to devise an easily operated election process
even under the most trying of circumstances such as faced by India, for
example, which shares the feature of America being a federal union of
individual states but with many additional difficulties complicating
elections even more than any the USA face.

Trying to solve it on a state-by-state basis i believe is merely a recipe
for failure and will not bring any resolution to the problem of
universality and uniformity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_India

[John Corbett]

I have been voting since 1972. Through the 2000 election I voted in the
city of Columbus, OH and since then have been voting in a rural county
about 45 minutes northeast of Columbus. In all that time I can only
remember one time that I had to wait in line for more than 10 minutes and
that was in 2004 when one of the two voting machines at our precinct
malfunctioned causing a back up. As I recall, I waited in line almost an
hour. Coincidently, the last person to vote in the United States was in
our county. It was in Gambier, OH about a 20 minute drive from my house.
Gambier is the home of Kenyon College (Paul Newman's alma mater). They too
had a voting machine breakdown and the combination of only having one
machine and lots of first time voters from Kenyon caused a massive back
up. The law states that if a person is in line when the polls close they
are allowed to vote no matter how long it takes. A Kenyon co-ed cast her
vote a little after 4 am, well after the polls in Hawaii had closed.

The point is long lines at polling places are the exception, not the rule.
They are usually result of either voting machine malfunctions or first
time voters. Combine the two and you can get really long lines. These
problems can happen anywhere. City, small town, or rural. Rich
neighborhoods, middle class neighborhoods, or poor neighborhoods. White,
black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American or any other ethnic neighborhood.
Of course the MSM will only focus on these problems when they occur in
poor and/or minority neighborhoods. The fact of the matter is our election
laws are color blind and class blind. They apply equally to voters of any
demographic group you want to name. The goal should be that every eligible
voter who wants to vote is allowed to do so while at the same time
ensuring that their votes will not be cancelled out by an ineligible
voter. We can argue about the proper balance to strike to achieve those
two goals, but whatever laws we settle on apply equally to EVERYONE.

[Glenn V.]

Good idea? I wouldn't think so, whatever that is, it surely has nothing to
do with voter fraud,

Next.

[Glenn V.]

On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 4:05:11 AM UTC+2, ajohnstone wrote:

Agreed. Part of that is what I've been hinting about. These long lines are
ridiculous to watch, absolutely embarrassing for the US, and it is, among
other things, a question of making the proper resources available in order
to have free and fair elections. Most of what you wrote applies also to
Scandinavia and I can guarantee that you will never, ever, find those long
lines anywhere in Scandinavia.

[John Corbett]

Long lines are the exception, not the rule. If there is one precinct that
has a long line, the MSM will find it. If it is in a black neighborhood,
they will present it as an example of how black people are being
disenfranchised. If it occurs in a white affluent neighborhood, they will
ignore it because they can't use it as evidence of the narrative they are
trying to push. The neighborhood where I resided when I lived in Columbus
was a mixed race neighborhood. It was majority white when I moved there in
1979 and by 2001 when I moved out it had become split fairly equally
between black and white. I suspect it has a black majority now. In the 22
years I lived and voted there, I never once experienced a long line, even
in heavy turnout years. My polling place was in a school gym and there
were 6 voting precincts sharing that space. I never once saw long lines in
any of them. I doubt I ever waited in line more than 10 minutes no matter
how heavy the turnout was.

Black precincts are not discriminated against when allocating voting
machines. In Ohio, each county board consists of two Democrats and two
Republicans and the allocation of voting machines is done on a bipartisan
basis. They make the decisions based on numbers of registered voters in a
precinct and recent turnout at each precinct. Most precincts that use
voting machines get two but a precinct with heavy turnout in recent
elections might get a third. The counties will keep a number of voting
machines in reserve because there is usually going to be some
malfunctioning machines that will need to be replaced. When that happens,
it takes some time for the reserve machine to be programmed for the
location it is being sent to and then delivered and set up so it can be
used. In the meantime, the lines back up. Voting machine malfunctions are
rare but a few usually occur every election. They happen in rich, poor,
black, and white neighborhoods. Malfunctioning machines do not
discriminate.

My county went back to paper ballots several elections ago. That has
eliminated the problem with malfunctioning machines. Instead our voting
"booths" consist of tall pieces of cardboard tri-folded to form three
sides where the voter can fill out his ballot in secret. Selections are
made by filling in a circle next to the candidates name or the voters
choice on issues. When the voter is done, they feed the ballot into a
machine which reads and tabulates the votes. The ballots are retained in
the event a manual recount is provided. The advantage of the paper ballots
is we can have as many as six voters filling out their ballot at one time
as opposed to when we had just two machines. Long lines are a thing of the
past. There are pros and cons to using machines vs. paper ballots but I
suspect that if all counties would return to using paper ballots that can
be automatically counted, we wouldn't see any more of the long lines.

[Bud]

Have to keep the "systematic racism" myth alive. it is worth too much
politically to stop playing it up. Now they are saying the reason they
want to get rid of the filibuster is because it is "historically racist".
Like saying rope is historically racist because it was used for lynching.

In reality it is the left, as represented by the MSM that are the
racists. You can see that in what they see as significant. Recently when a
black muslim ran over and killed a guard at the capitol and it was in the
news for minutes. Make that a white Qanon member and you`d never hear the
end of it.

The truth of this can be seen in the way the Arbery case played out. If
this was a black guy shooting another black guy, a white guy shooting a
white guy or a black guy shooting a white guy none of us would have heard
about it. Only because it was a white shooting a black was it deemed
significant. Part of the job of the MSM is to keep racial tensions high so
the Democratic Party can benefit.

[John Corbett]

I looked hard in what you wrote for something I could disagree with but
couldn't find anything.

[Bud]

<snicker> I`ll have to try harder.

Last night there was a police shooting of a black guy in Minnesota with
the usual "unrest". The MSM did their part by lying that he was stopped
for having an air fresher hanging from his rearview mirror (the tags were
out of date).

https://youtu.be/rVH6q0ul72A

The film makes it clear that she mistook her handgun for her tazer. She
shouts "tazer, tazer, tazer" to alert the other cops she was going to
deploy a tazer and said" "oh shit, I shot him" after her gun discharged.

What will be ignored is the fact that this kid did everything he could
to create a situation where such a mistake could occur.

Another incident in the news is this one, where a lieutenant in the Army
for some reason forgot how to follow instructions...

https://youtu.be/uf5KZSADDhg

Not complying can only escalate an already tense situation.

But my favorite is this one I saw recently, where a cop lost his job for
shoving snow in a guy`s face...

https://youtu.be/r2XJKV3SC6I

Police should start carrying snow, this guy went from belligerent to
apologizing after the face wash.

My friends and I used to do this sort of thing to each other
roughhousing in the wintertime, didn`t do us any harm, builds character.

[ajohnstone]

And what is your response to a loyal officer of the US armed forces, (not
a non-com as the policeman automatically assumed) is pepper-sprayed and a
gun pointed at him for having a genuine fear for his safety in a routine
police-stop and then a right-wing news pundit inferring that this army
officer who unlike so many other armed citizens is well trained and
regularly practiced in the use of his firearm, possessed a weapon and
should not have been armed.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/newsmax-host-under-fire-for-blaming-black-army-officer-pepper-sprayed-in-traffic-stop/ar-BB1fzSfT?ocid=BingNewsSearch

But the my real sorrow is for the shooting by 3 yr old of his baby brother.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/baby-shooting-death-houston-brother-b1829587.html

Easy to blame the laxity of the parents but i dare say in many households
a loaded weapon is kept under unsecure conditions as in the case of
McMasters, carelessly left in his car only to be stolen.

As for the 2nd Amendment that many say is to prevent anti-constitutional
take-over of the government, how did that turn out for the militias who
genuinely believe Biden is not the legitimate head of state. Seems that
their right to bear arms was ineffectual when faced with that proverbial
"deep state".

[ajohnstone]

Oh, and i forgot to mention the incompetence of the police who mistook her
gun for a taser...duh

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/daunte-wright-shooting-officer-mistakenly-drew-gun-instead-of-taser-says-police-chief/ar-BB1fA9F2?ocid=uxbndlbing

[ajohnstone]

But not to derail the topic thread

Voters wait an average of just six minutes in line after 7pm in precincts
where 90% of residents are white. But when 90% of voters are Black? The
wait is 51 minutes.

Between 2012 and 2018, Georgia shut 8% of all precincts statewide, and
moved 40% of them.

According to a study by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the combination
of fewer precincts and longer commutes could have kept as many as 85,000
people from casting a ballot in 2018. This disproportionately affected
Black voters, who were 20% less likely to make it to the polls as a
result.

The new law limits four of the state’s most populous, and
predominantly Black counties, to just 23 drop boxes – down from 94
during the 2020 and makes them available only during government office
hours, rather than around the clock. Mobile voting centers have been
banned.

The amount of time that voters have to request an absentee ballot is
reduced by half. It adds additional new voter ID provisions for requesting
and casting an absentee ballot; studies show that voters of color are much
more likely than white voters to have their ballots disqualified for
missing that step.

Standardize the early voting hours from 9am to 5pm, rather than 7am to
7pm, to make it that much harder for working people to cast their ballot.

From what i see, JC's concern that invalid voting cancels out legitimate
votes has not been the motivation of the law changes.

Democracy is about participation in the process, not trying to exclude a
section of the population through gerrymandering rules. Look what happened
in Northern Ireland when the Protestants imposed election rules to favor
themselves and handicap the Catholics. Civil war ensued.

[Glenn V.]

While I don't too often agree with John Boehner, he's definitely got this
one right:

John Boehner: "The president abused the loyalty and trust of the people
who voted for him by spewing that nonsense without ever putting any facts
out there. It was a sad spectacle."

Indeed it was and the Big Lie, by far, the worst of it all.

[John Corbett]

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:42:34 PM UTC-4, ajohnstone wrote:
> But not to derail the topic thread
>
> Voters wait an average of just six minutes in line after 7pm in precincts
> where 90% of residents are white. But when 90% of voters are Black? The
> wait is 51 minutes.
>

Which tells us nothing. The obvious next question is why.

> Between 2012 and 2018, Georgia shut 8% of all precincts statewide, and
> moved 40% of them.
>

Again, meaningless on its own.

> According to a study by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the combination
> of fewer precincts and longer commutes could have kept as many as 85,000
> people from casting a ballot in 2018. This disproportionately affected
> Black voters, who were 20% less likely to make it to the polls as a
> result.

Why would it affect black voters disproportionately? Nobody was prevented
from voting by longer commutes. They just didn't want to make the effort.
Polls are open for more than 12 hours a day. How long does it take people
to get to the polls.

>
> The new law limits four of the state’s most populous, and
> predominantly Black counties, to just 23 drop boxes – down from 94
> during the 2020 and makes them available only during government office
> hours, rather than around the clock. Mobile voting centers have been
> banned.

Drop boxes? I've voted my whole life without ever seeing a drop box. I'd
never even heard of a drop box until this past election. Not having enough
drop boxes is a lame excuse.

>
> The amount of time that voters have to request an absentee ballot is
> reduced by half.

How much time does it take to request an absentee ballot?

> It adds additional new voter ID provisions for requesting
> and casting an absentee ballot; studies show that voters of color are much
> more likely than white voters to have their ballots disqualified for
> missing that step.

Is it harder for black people to get an ID?

>
> Standardize the early voting hours from 9am to 5pm, rather than 7am to
> 7pm, to make it that much harder for working people to cast their ballot.

White people work too. Why is this provision discriminatory?

>
> From what i see, JC's concern that invalid voting cancels out legitimate
> votes has not been the motivation of the law changes.

What you see is not necessarily what is.

>
> Democracy is about participation in the process, not trying to exclude a
> section of the population through gerrymandering rules. Look what happened
> in Northern Ireland when the Protestants imposed election rules to favor
> themselves and handicap the Catholics. Civil war ensued.

Throwing gerrymandering into the conversation is a red herring. It has
nothing to do with the new Georgia voting laws. Neither does what happened
in Northern Ireland. Participation in our democracy is voluntary. If some
choose not to, that is their privilege. Those who choose not to are likely
uninformed. I would rather see people who aren't interested in
participating stay home rather than being dragged to the polls to cast
uninformed votes.

[Bud]

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:42:27 PM UTC-4, ajohnstone wrote:
> And what is your response to a loyal officer of the US armed forces, (not
> a non-com as the policeman automatically assumed) is pepper-sprayed and a
> gun pointed at him for having a genuine fear for his safety

Nonsense, he was never in fear, he played the whole thing and you fall
for it.

*IF* he was that big a pussy, he shouldn`t be in uniform. *IF* he
couldn`t follow orders he shouldn`t be in uniform.

But what actually happened is he did everything he could to escalate
the situation. He drove a mile and a half with the cops behind him with
their lights flashing. When he pulled into that area, he refused repeated
command to exit the vehicle. When the officer tried to pull open the door,
he held it shut. The cops aren`t out there to play silly games with
people, at a certain point it is obstruction of justice.

This officer does a good explanation of the event...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBMnJyOiT0

>in a routine
> police-stop and then a right-wing news pundit inferring that this army
> officer who unlike so many other armed citizens is well trained and
> regularly practiced in the use of his firearm, possessed a weapon and
> should not have been armed.
>
> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/newsmax-host-under-fire-for-blaming-black-army-officer-pepper-sprayed-in-traffic-stop/ar-BB1fzSfT?ocid=BingNewsSearch

He was to blame, he created the situation. He should be thrown out of
the military.

> But the my real sorrow is for the shooting by 3 yr old of his baby brother.
>
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/baby-shooting-death-houston-brother-b1829587.html

They are dangerous tools, of that there is no doubt.

Do a google search for "baby ran over by lawn mower", see how many hits
you get. People back over their own kids pulling out of their driveways.
Dangerous world.

> Easy to blame the laxity of the parents but i dare say in many households
> a loaded weapon is kept under unsecure conditions as in the case of
> McMasters,

McMichaels, not McMasters.

>carelessly left in his car only to be stolen.

Blame the victim.

> As for the 2nd Amendment that many say is to prevent anti-constitutional
> take-over of the government, how did that turn out for the militias who
> genuinely believe Biden is not the legitimate head of state. Seems that
> their right to bear arms was ineffectual when faced with that proverbial
> "deep state".

<snicker> That remains to be seen. People are buying guns in record
numbers, you can`t even walk into a gun store and get one they are so
backordered. Don`t think this has escaped the powers that be, they re
already making noise about screening those in the military. You`ll also
notice all the effort being put into anti-gun legislation. You`ll also
notice that the government refuses to protect it citizens but comes down
hard on those that have the audacity to protect themselves (like the
McMichaels, Kyle Rittenhouse, the couple that came out on their lawn to
protect their property, the bar owner who committed suicide when he was
brought up on charges for killing someone who was attacking him, ect).

[Bud]

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:42:34 PM UTC-4, ajohnstone wrote:

> But not to derail the topic thread
>
> Voters wait an average of just six minutes in line after 7pm in precincts
> where 90% of residents are white. But when 90% of voters are Black? The
> wait is 51 minutes.

What about before 7pm?

> Between 2012 and 2018, Georgia shut 8% of all precincts statewide, and
> moved 40% of them.
>
> According to a study by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the combination
> of fewer precincts and longer commutes could have kept as many as 85,000
> people from casting a ballot in 2018.

"could have"? I guess that means maybe not.

> This disproportionately affected
> Black voters, who were 20% less likely to make it to the polls as a
> result.

Perhaps they were 20% less inclined to vote in that election.

> The new law limits four of the state’s most populous, and
> predominantly Black counties, to just 23 drop boxes – down from 94
> during the 2020 and makes them available only during government office
> hours, rather than around the clock.

Why would they be around the clock?

> Mobile voting centers have been
> banned.

Why did they have them in the first place?

> The amount of time that voters have to request an absentee ballot is
> reduced by half. It adds additional new voter ID provisions for requesting
> and casting an absentee ballot; studies show that voters of color are much
> more likely than white voters to have their ballots disqualified for
> missing that step.

People with no ID should have their votes disqualified.

> Standardize the early voting hours from 9am to 5pm, rather than 7am to
> 7pm, to make it that much harder for working people to cast their ballot.

https://georgia.gov/early-voting

> From what i see, JC's concern that invalid voting cancels out legitimate
> votes has not been the motivation of the law changes.

All I care about is the ID requirement. The Democrats are playing the
race card because they know that an ID requirement prevents them from
cheating.

[John Corbett]

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:42:27 PM UTC-4, ajohnstone wrote:

> And what is your response to a loyal officer of the US armed forces, (not
> a non-com as the policeman automatically assumed) is pepper-sprayed and a
> gun pointed at him for having a genuine fear for his safety in a routine
> police-stop and then a right-wing news pundit inferring that this army
> officer who unlike so many other armed citizens is well trained and
> regularly practiced in the use of his firearm, possessed a weapon and
> should not have been armed.

I never know who you are posing questions to since your method of
responding doesn't include the pertinent post. My reaction to this is it
seems like a couple goon cops who should be held accountable for their
actions if they are as described in the news reports. The fact that we
have a few racist cops is not an indication that police forces are
inherently racist. Racists exist in just about every profession you can
name so why would we think there wouldn't be any among the cops.

>
> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/newsmax-host-under-fire-for-blaming-black-army-officer-pepper-sprayed-in-traffic-stop/ar-BB1fzSfT?ocid=BingNewsSearch
>
> But the my real sorrow is for the shooting by 3 yr old of his baby brother.
>
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/baby-shooting-death-houston-brother-b1829587.html
>
> Easy to blame the laxity of the parents but i dare say in many households
> a loaded weapon is kept under unsecure conditions as in the case of
> McMasters, carelessly left in his car only to be stolen.

Sadly, many young children die every year because of careless parents and
firearms are a tiny piece of that equation. Death by firearms doesn't even
make the top ten of accidental deaths among young children. A backyard
swimming pool, even a little inflatable one is a far great hazard to a
toddler than a gun in the house. In my little berg of Utica, Oh some years
ago, a three year old drown in a backyard swimming pool. The home was on
US-62 which I travel on frequently when going home and I happened to be
driving by in the immediate aftermath. It appeared to me the cop was
trying to comfort the mother who just realized her toddler had drowned. I
could almost guess what had happened and it was confirmed in the news
reports the next day.

>
> As for the 2nd Amendment that many say is to prevent anti-constitutional
> take-over of the government, how did that turn out for the militias who
> genuinely believe Biden is not the legitimate head of state. Seems that
> their right to bear arms was ineffectual when faced with that proverbial
> "deep state".

There were few if firearms taken into the Capitol and to the best of my
knowledge the only shots were fired by Capitol police. What happened on
January 6 was just a tantrum by a small number of crazy pissed off people.
It is not the kind of thing that would trigger a wide scale revolt. That
is something that could, would, and should happen if we ever had a
government that usurped powers not legally obtained through constitutional
processes. Suppose we had a government that declared the Bill or Rights
was no longer the law of the land and that elections were being suspended.
IOW, a scenario we have seen play out in other countries around the world.
That is the point at which armed revolution would become justifiable and
it wouldn't just be a few hundred people storming the Capitol. It would be
all out civil war.

Our founding document, the Declaration of Independence, spells out when
such revolution would be justified:

"That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends,
it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute
new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing
its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their
safety and happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should
not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all
experience has shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while
evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to
which they are accustomed."

[John McAdams]

On 8 Apr 2021 01:10:43 -0000, "Glenn V." <flex...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Oh, shit. I missed that that the Democrats are the reason for everything
>bad in the US. Marxist's, Hollywood and the Elites are all going to be
>destroyed with a little good ol' fascism.
>
>Sorry, I forgot about that. You guys have really thought this through.

So you are calling people who disagree with your politics fascist.

Do you know what that does to your credibility?

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

On 13 Apr 2021 20:43:03 -0000, "Glenn V." <flex...@gmail.com> wrote:

>While I don't too often agree with John Boehner, he's definitely got this
>one right:
>
>John Boehner: "The president abused the loyalty and trust of the people
>who voted for him by spewing that nonsense without ever putting any facts
>out there. It was a sad spectacle."
>

Why is anybody supposed to be impressed with the fact that a fair
number of Establishment Republicans don't like Trump?

>Indeed it was and the Big Lie, by far, the worst of it all.

And "Russian collusion" was not a big lie?

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

>Soon your logics will lead you to protect Hitler, too - who was duly
>democratically elected, remember?
>

>Was this plain enough for you to understand?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

On 7 Apr 2021 19:26:19 -0000, "Glenn V." <flex...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 5:03:29 AM UTC+2, Bud wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 3:40:38 PM UTC-4, Glenn V. wrote:

>> > On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 2:14:24 AM UTC+2, John McAdams wrote:
>> > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/30/biden-falsely-claims-new-georgia-law-ends-voting-hours-early/
>> > >
>> > > .John
>> > > -------------------------------
>> > > http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>> > The only one who's got suckered into anything is you, John. Read up on
>> > exactly what is in that bill in Georgia. Try to understand, for example,
>> > what it means that Raffenspergers office is taken out of the process and
>> > pay attention to how it will be done in the future.
>> Make your arguments, stop alluding to things you don`t show.
>> > Btw, what Trump said about Charlottesville was of course directed to the
>> > same people he declared he "loved", on January 6th. The white
>> > supremacists; the Proud Boys and the rest of the insurrectionists at the
>> > Capitolium. As you well know, some of those he earlier had told to "stand
>> > down, stand by". They know exactly how to read Trump - and Trump knows
>> > exactly how to address them. You should stop playing games about this.
>> You should stop pretending that these fringe groups represent the core
>> of Trump`s support.
>> > No GOP representative of Congress has yet answered why 360 bills are now
>> > being introduced by the GOP around the US,
>> I can. Millions of Americans have expressed the idea that they aren`t
>> confident that the election was conducted fairly.
>>
>> https://americasfreedomfighters.com/bombshell-new-poll/
>> >after an election where no
>> > voter fraud happened anywhere, of any scale whatsoever.
>> There has never been a political election in this country of any size
>> where there was no voter fraud.
>> > No fraud, no
>> > irregularities, no matter how many times you repeat those lies.
>> The whole election was irregular.
>> > Btw, John
>> > are you defending the Big Lie? You know, the one that says the election
>> > "was stolen"?
>> >
>> > You know, the one that separates authoritarians and fascists from true
>> > democrats? Do you, or anyone else here support the Big Lie? The one, also,
>> > that so many scared GOP members of Congress support? Those scared of
>> > Donald Trump - who doesn't give a damn about democracy?
>> Good to see you on board with democracy. Since the Georgia Voting Bill
>> was the product of democracy you should have no complaints.
>> > But there are indeed quite a few ex-GOP conservatives, true defenders of
>> > democracy, who have spoken out about what is going on in the US.
>> >
>> > Max Boot, just yesterday:
>> Who?
>> > "In Georgia, Delta Air Lines issued a statement opposing a package of
>> > voting rules that, among other things, imposes new barriers to voting by
>> > mail, eliminates mobile voting centers, puts a cap on the number of drop
>> > boxes and shortens the time to return absentee ballots.
>> Has it been shown that any of these things cause undue hardship?
>>
>> Interesting that the left will soon be trying to implement something
>> where you have to show you`ve been vaccinated to do certain things (like
>> get on Delta planes). You will have to show something in order to board a
>> plane, but they don`t want anyone to have to show something to vote.
>> > Republicans
>> > retaliated. Now, when businesses oppose those efforts and exercise their
>> > First Amendment rights, which Republicans ordinarily consider
>> > ?fundamental? and worthy of protection, they seek to use
>> > the power of the government to punish those whose speech they dislike. It
>> > seems they do not like the First Amendment any more than the 14th or the
>> > 15th when it comes to robust access to the ballot for voters they suspect
>> > will support their opponents. Their march to bully-boy authoritarianism
>> > continues as they prove once again that they are no friends of
>> > multiracial, robust democracy."
>> Left wing groups tried to pressure Coca-Cola to come out against this
>> bill. Apparently the left is no friend to democracy.
>> > Yes, those republicans retaliated, for one reason alone. They are all
>> > scared sh*t of Donald Trump, these cowards.
>> They are scared of the millions of people who support Trump. As well
>> they should be.
>> > I'm happy to provide these
>> > lists of ex-GOP republicans, who have all left since they understand what
>> > an incredibly dangerous path the GOP has entered, since the day they all
>> > bowed down to Donald Trumps authoritarian idiocy:
>> >
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Trump_movement
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign
>> >
>> > Someone summed it up quite brilliant:
>> >
>> > "Republicans will be anti-corporate in word, pro-billionaire in deed;
>> If the Democrats are so anti-billionaire, why are there so many
>> billionaires working on their behalf? Why does Big Tech act on behalf of
>> the left? Why is the mainstream media nothing but a propaganda arm of the
>> Democratic Party?
>> > blue-collar on the airwaves, protective of offshore tax shelters in
>> > practice; the party of law and order
>> How many police unions came out for Biden?
>> >- that insists 2020 was stolen."
>> >
>> > This time US democracy was saved by the Judiciary.
>> The Supreme Court refused to hear the case.
>> > Now it's time for you,
>> > Bud and the rest to make a choice. Either you continue to walk into the
>> > future head deep in the past, b*tt first. Or you start defending US
>> > democracy.
>> All those 360 GOP bills you mentioned are part of the democratic
>> process. Why are you so anti-democratic?
>> >Not a right/left question. No joke. Not a
>> > petty-winning-arguments-in-a-debate thing.
>> >
>> > It's a question of saving US democracy.
>> It was a question of saving America. The question has been answered (for
>> now), America is not to be saved, it is to be reshaped into a leftists
>> vision that is doomed to fail.
>> >Pretty soon it just might be too
>> > late.
>
>Thanks, Bud.
>
>Thanks for signing off on what to me was clear long ago. You don't give a
>shit about democracy, which really was never that hard to figure out.

If you leftists care so much about democracy, why are you running
cancel culture, and punishing speech you don't like?

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

On 6 Apr 2021 19:40:37 -0000, "Glenn V." <flex...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 2:14:24 AM UTC+2, John McAdams wrote:
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/30/biden-falsely-claims-new-georgia-law-ends-voting-hours-early/
>>
>

>The only one who's got suckered into anything is you, John. Read up on
>exactly what is in that bill in Georgia. Try to understand, for example,
>what it means that Raffenspergers office is taken out of the process and
>pay attention to how it will be done in the future.
>

>Btw, what Trump said about Charlottesville was of course directed to the
>same people he declared he "loved", on January 6th. The white
>supremacists; the Proud Boys and the rest of the insurrectionists at the
>Capitolium.

Still won't admit you fell for a mainsteam media lie, eh?

Have you even watched this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=JmaZR8E12bs&feature=youtu.be&t=65

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

On 6 Apr 2021 19:40:37 -0000, "Glenn V." <flex...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 2:14:24 AM UTC+2, John McAdams wrote:
>

>This time US democracy was saved by the Judiciary. Now it's time for you,

>Bud and the rest to make a choice. Either you continue to walk into the
>future head deep in the past, b*tt first. Or you start defending US

>democracy. Not a right/left question. No joke. Not a
>petty-winning-arguments-in-a-debate thing.
>
>It's a question of saving US democracy. Pretty soon it just might be too
>late.

Glenn V., whose ideological cohorts riot and loot and burn, who cancel
people with whom they disagree, and who were guilty of a huge hoax in
the wake of 2016 (Russion collusion) lectures people on democracy.

You are on the side of the nasty authoritarians, Glenn.

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Glenn V.]

Let's see if you guys have the guts to watch this - all of it.

The fact is, Steve Schmidt says it all, and he says it better than anyone.

And frankly John. That last statement about me is disgusting, John. You
ought to apologize immediately for writing something like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_jqzgQ_3HY&t=5719s

[John McAdams]

On 14 Apr 2021 23:13:18 -0000, "Glenn V." <flex...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 11:52:20 PM UTC+2, John McAdams wrote:
>> On 6 Apr 2021 19:40:37 -0000, "Glenn V." <flex...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 2:14:24 AM UTC+2, John McAdams wrote:
>> >
>> >This time US democracy was saved by the Judiciary. Now it's time for you,
>> >Bud and the rest to make a choice. Either you continue to walk into the
>> >future head deep in the past, b*tt first. Or you start defending US
>> >democracy. Not a right/left question. No joke. Not a
>> >petty-winning-arguments-in-a-debate thing.
>> >
>> >It's a question of saving US democracy. Pretty soon it just might be too
>> >late.
>>
>> Glenn V., whose ideological cohorts riot and loot and burn, who cancel
>> people with whom they disagree, and who were guilty of a huge hoax in
>> the wake of 2016 (Russion collusion) lectures people on democracy.
>>
>> You are on the side of the nasty authoritarians, Glenn.
>>
>

>Let's see if you guys have the guts to watch this - all of it.

It riducles the "My Pillow" guy who was boycotted because of his
support ot Trump.

What would "nasty authoritarianism" look like if not this?

>
>The fact is, Steve Schmidt says it all, and he says it better than anyone.
>
>And frankly John. That last statement about me is disgusting, John. You
>ought to apologize immediately for writing something like that.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_jqzgQ_3HY&t=5719s

I let you call me a liar, and tell me to "get my head out of my ass."

And I just said you are "on the side of the nasty authoritarians."

And you post a video clip proving it.

I urge everybody to watch the clip you posted. It' pure, stark
hatred.

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm